Re: GNOME vs GNU gcc & glibc

[Gleef <dzol virtual-yellow com>]

On Thu, 8 Apr 1999, Sergio Brandano wrote:
> >>  I would be contented with a self contained gnome-lib.
> >What do you mean self contained?  What exactly would be in this tarball?
> 
>  Self contained means, in this context, that you can untar it,
>  configure it and compile it just on top of GNU/GNOME code
>  (gettext and grep).

You still aren't answering my question.  What is missing from gnome-lib
which you think should be there?

Your definition of self contained makes little sense.  You complain about
GNU libraries such as gmp (which is optional), yet you say it should
compile with just GNU code.  I don't understand what you are looking for.


> >> ... please have a look at
> >> ftp://ftp.geo.net/pub/gnome/sources/README
> >> The core seems to be more than three files.
> 
> >This README file makes no claims about the core of GNOME.  It is a list of
> >tarballs that some unidentified person is saying you "need" to install to
> >run an out-of-date version of GNOME.  The document is in error, many of
> >those are not needed for GNOME.  The document is also unofficial, not on a
> >GNOME site, and obsolete.  Why are you bringing it up?
> 
>  Because I have no access to the main site (www.gnome.org).

Why not?


>  However, if you look at the list of all the official mirror sites
>  (http://www.gnome.org/ftpmirrors.shtml) you'll find a pointer to 
>  ftp.geo.net. So, what I did is to point you to an official README.

You pointed to a file that was placed on the FTP server in January, was 
never part of any distribution or documentation, and was not even fully
correct at the time.  It is completely obsolete now.  We have
documentation.  Please make use of it rather than trying to hunt down
obscure readmes.


> >> Then GNOME depends on non-GNOME code
> 
> >Yes.  On a modern Unix or Unix-like system, pretty much all programs
> >depend on outside code and libraries.
> 
>  Well, it should not.

How?  Do you expect us to rewrite libc just to distribute GNOME?  Do
you then expect us to port that libc to all of GNOME's platforms?  How 
do you expect us to run GNOME on Solaris without using outside code?
Do you expect us to reverse engineer the Solaris kernel calls before we
support Solaris?

Libc is outside code.  It is also an absolute requirement for GNOME.  It
cannot sanely be included in GNOME.  Where do suggest we draw the line
between what is part of GNOME and what is not?


>  GNOME is part of the GNU project, which aims at free software. This
>  is a very general statement but, in principle, what happens if one of
>  those non-GNOME programs become commercial software?

What does commercial software have to do with anything?  Ghostscript is
commercial software (copyright Alladin Software).  It is also part of
the GNU project, Free Software and distributed under the GPL.

GNOME is solely dependant on Free Software, with the obvious and generally
accepted exception of the operating system binaries (which are still Free
for most of us).  To my knowledge, none of the licenses are subject to
termination.  The vast majority of the non-os code we use is under the GPL
or LGPL.  The rest is under the X Consortium License except for one
package which is BSD with a special variance from the copyright holder so
we don't need to worry about the advertising clause.  Which package are
you concerned about?

 
> >> and it's development is constrained by the non-GNOME people? Is that the
> >> case? 
> 
> >No, we don't find it constraining at all.  If something exists that is
> >both useful and Free Software, we use it.  If it doesn't exist, or it only
> >exists in a non-free form, we make it.  We aren't constrained by this
> >because we are a Free Software project. 
> 
>  Ok, then we are speaking the same language. However, let me resume
>  the original problem, why do we need to compile 18+ source codes in
>  order to compile gnome-libs? I find it constraining.

As I explained before, you don't.  You don't need most of those files you
listed.  Of the ones that you do need, think of it as bringing your
distribution up to modern specifications, not as a part of GNOME.  The
more recent your distribution, the less you have to bring up to spec.  If
you don't want to compile everything, get Starbuck (RH 5.9), or wait until
Slackware comes out with a GNOME release.  That's what distributions are
for, so you don't have to compile everything yourself.

Best of Luck,
-Gleef