Re: Scroll bars.

["Robert J. Slover" <robert slover Rose-Hulman Edu>]

Shawn T. Amundson wrote:
> 
> Scrollbars are generally on the right side so that it is easier to
> line up data visually.  For example, say you have something like
> 
> [label]
> [label]
> 
> ^
> |  Text
> |
> |
> V
> 
> [Entry]
> 
> This is worse than if it where on the right where the text could
> be visually lined up with the labels and entry.  Lining text up
> on the right side makes no sense in a majority of cases.
> 
> Also, if you put the scrollbars on the left and allow them to
> automatically come up when needed, the text widget (or list
> widget, etc.) would shift to the right, an extremely undesireable
> action.
> 
> A general guideline in developing GUIs is that if you are going against
> the grain you are most likely wrong.  This is not always the case
> obviously - but it is good to try and think of reasons why you should
> not change standards as well.
> 
> -Shawn


I can't agree with this.  Just looking at your E-mail in netscape here,
the text is all crowded against the left of the page.  On my nice big
monitor the bloody scrollbar (way over on the right) is almost out of 
the periphary of my vision.  There's an acre of empty space between the
ragged right side of paragraphs and my scrollbar...this makes it more
difficult by far to align than if my scrollbar were on the left.

Wherever I have a choice, my scrollbars are NeXT style...on the left,
with both up and down buttons together...and a scroll thumb that
corresponds in size to the percentage of the region which is visible 
on screen.  That last feature addresses your concern about magically
appearing scrollbars...if 100% of the region is visible the thumb
takes 100% of the trough.  The text does not have to shift if the 
scroll trough always exists. 

I think the right hand scrollbar is just a holdover from the 
predominant right-handedness of people...it is an almost useless
extension of the pick-up-and-drag metaphor.  In the real world if I
am right handed I am likely to grab my notebook by the right side and
pull it across the desk towards me.  This is a physical optimization
and doesn't need to exist in a UI.

This becomes more obvious if you use your mouse on the left.  I began
doing this a couple of years ago at the suggestion of a russian 
friend...it leaves my right hand free for things like cursor keys and
the keypad.  I tend to notice the navigational overhead in having the
scrollbars on the right a lot more now because I now 'park' my mouse
at the lower left corner whereas it used to be the right.  I do a 
little less navigation to menus now though.

Also...to respond a bit to Gary Vaughan's suggestion of a 'mark' that
appears in the scroll trough...great idea.  I've never seen that done
but I can immediately appreciate the uses of it.  I would think the
GUI interaction with this might be similar to 'guides' in something
like PageMaker...drag a mark from a well located at one end of the
scrollbar and plunk it down next to the position you want to mark.
Grab and drag it off into the ether to clear it...simple interaction.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Robert J. Slover | Admin Sys Mgr | Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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