Re: Gnome/Linux Application Installer

["Ben 'The Con Man' Kahn" <xkahn cybersites com>]

	Umm...  These are all good ideas.  However, I don't think this is
our job to think about.  You can present these ideas to the people who
maintain and develop packaging systems.  

	We should only think about how to make is graphicly easier.  A
good idea might be to make rpm and dep files associated with a small
install program.  

	(As a side note, these packages can be installed, upgraded, and
queried.  These functions are supported by gmc, I'm sure.  :^) )  

	When you double click on the package, the install program runs,
etc.:^)  Of course, there are simple matters of what should appear on
the panel, on the desktop, etc.

On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, David Jeske wrote:

> Hello, I've posted on this topic before on both KDE and Gnome, and
> mostly just come upon widespread reluctance. I think some of it comes
> because many people just don't do anything complex with app
> installation, and some of it comes because UNIX has never done this
> well, and in order to do it well, we need to move a short distance
> away from the UNIX mindset.
> 
> On Wed, Dec 23, 1998 at 12:47:51PM -0500, Jason Tackaberry wrote:
> > There needs to be some universal package format for at least Gnome
> > applications, but preferably all Linux apps.  Has there been any
> > talk among the RedHat and Debian (and others who have package
> > formats) to agree on one common structure?
> 
> I agree with the concept of a universal system for handling
> applications. The best way to enforce it is to only let apps run if
> they are handed in via the one true package format. :) Otherwise,
> people will ignore it. However, this isn't very practical, and thus,
> like everything, we need to come up with a good compromise.
> 
> > Gnome apps will also need to be able to add items to the Gnome menu.
> > We should give the user complete control over the install if he
> > wants it.  That is, being able to specify what items will be
> > installed to the menus, and where they will go.  (Nothing bugs me
> > more when Windows apps create their own program groups and install
> > reams of useless shortcuts there like READMEs and Help files.)  This
> > also includes being able to install _any_ package _anywhere_.
> > Uninstalls should be simple, and they should _work_.  Some installs
> > are more complicated than others.  Some might just want a simple
> > progress bar, while others will have more comprehensive "look what
> > you can do with this program" screens during the install.  The
> > install format should be flexible enough to allow this -- maybe even
> > provide some kind of scripting language.
> 
> I agree with all these needs. I think one of the best ways to achieve
> these goals is to change the responsibility of the 'install'
> itself. Currently, a program install is responsible both for 'copying
> an app's files onto the system' and 'plugging that app into the
> system's configuration'. If we redefine install as 'copying an app's
> files onto the system' and 'publishing what exports an app has which
> _might_ be tied into the system configuration', I think we can make
> this significantly cleaner.
> 
> In other words, basically stop letting programs install things all
> over the system. Stop letting programs 'put things into the gnome
> menu' or 'put things into /etc/rc.d'. Instead just have apps publish
> what things are available for the gnome menu or /etc/rc.d.
> 
> For example, if it has an executable which should be available from a
> menu somewhere, then it should say so. If it has a service which could
> be started at boot or login time, then it should say so. It should
> then be the job of Gnome, or the startup daemon, or whatever, to query
> the available packages, and let the user choose what to put into his
> startup menu. In many ways this is already much like the ideas which
> got started in 'wmconfig'. However, instead of expecting the app
> install to write to places which only root has access to, I'm
> advocating putting all that information within the app's install
> directory. That way, the app installation never mucks with any other
> system files.
> 
> Here is an example of how we might ask for apps to be layed out. In
> this form, they could be installed by any installer, and installed
> anywhere in the system. As long as Gnome could find the start of the
> app, it could allow the user to bring the app into his environment (or
> not).
> 
> .../Netscape.app/__exports_file        # see below for contents
>                 /bin.li386/Netscape
>                           /mail_alert
>                 /bin.sparc/Netscape
>                           /mail_alert
>                 /icons/Netscape.ico
>                       /Netscape-help.ico
>                       /netscape-text-icon.ico
>                       /netscape-html-icon.ico
>                 /default.conf
>                 /help/index.html     # html help
> 
> ## __exports_file 
> # NOTE: notice how there is no script code in here. Everything is
> #       published in data (passive) form. This is an important way to make sure
> #       apps don't become dependent on all kinds of little quirks in a given
> #       distribution (i.e. redhat, debian, etc)
> %%platform_decl(v1.0)
>        i386-linux   ; bin  ; bin.li386
>        sparc-solaris; bin  ; bin.sparc
> %%menu(v1.0)        # items to add to the start menu
>        Netscape     ; bin/Netscape   ; Netscape.ico
>        Netscape Help; help/          ; Netscape-help.ico
> %%startup(v1.0)     # things which might be started to run as daemons
>        Mail Alert   ; at_login    ; bin/mail_alert
> %%mimetype_operations(v1.0)   # alot like mailcap
> #      operation  ;  mime/type  ; relative path and switches
>        Open       ;  text/*     ; bin/Netscape --open %s     
>        Open URL   ;  text/URL   ; bin/Netscape %s
>        Edit       ;  text/html  ; bin/Netscape --edit %s
>        Mail       ;  *          ; bin/Netscape --compose --attachfile %s
> %%mimetype_icons(v1.0)
>        text/plain ; icons/netscape-text-icon.ico
>        text/html ; icons/netscape-html-icon.ico 
> 
> -- 
> David Jeske (N9LCA) + http://www.chat.net/~jeske/ + jeske@chat.net
> 
> 
> -- 
>         FAQ: Frequently-Asked Questions at http://www.gnome.org/gnomefaq
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> 

						-Ben

------------------------------------ |\      _,,,--,,_  ,) ----------
Benjamin Kahn                        /,`.-'`'   -,  ;-;;'
(212) 924 - 2220                    |,4-  ) )-,_ ) /\
ben@cybersites.com --------------- '---''(_/--' (_/-' ---------------
          Meet Linux: Forrest Gump as an operating system.