Re: panel error *** ORBit patch ***

[George <jirka 5z com>]

On Thu, Aug 13, 1998 at 04:01:06PM -0400, Elliot Lee wrote:
> > > I refuse to put broken DNS hacks in in order to cater to broken system
> > > setups. I quite honestly do not care to support broken systems - should I
> > > also check to make sure that you have IPv4 support on your system before
> > > attempting to use it? :)
> > 
> > I beg you to reconsider.  Broken DNS is common
> 
> If programs encounter a broken runtime environment, they are not required
> to run perfectly. If the environment does not provide the basic
> necessities (which, for a network desktop, includes core network
> services), then it's reasonable to exit

I don't really believe in that ... a robust program should be able to work
even with a broken part of the runtime ... it should try a workaround (it
shouldn't do it silently) ...

and especially for brokenness that is very very common with people without
permanent connections ...

gnome is supposed to be an easy to use GUI ... if it stops working because
it consideres the users system broken (remember without the panel or file
manager, a gui only person WILL NOT be able to fix the problem in the first
place ... so the panel exitting IS NOT an option ... panel giving a warning
and trying a workaround ... or maybe telling the user what to do ... would
be right ...

if the user is required to have a perfectly running system before the GUI
runs ... while we are trying to convince him that he can do everyting in
gui ... it just doesn't work ... plus in the future if even say linuxconf
frontend in gnome is running orbit (which should be expected)... the
user will not be able to use the config tools to make it right ...

take it this way ... if other programs can deal with it cleanly, so can 
orbit ...

> The default /etc/hosts on most systems (which would produce localhost ->
> 127.0.0.1 -> localhost.localdomain, I think) should work fine. If you
> don't have DNS access, it's when you have '/bin/hostname' print out a
> hostname that is not listed in your /etc/hosts file, and/or you have dns
> listed in /etc/nsswitch.conf before files for the hosts map, that problems
> ensue.

I know many many people with broken setups ... and these are people that
need a GUI to configure it ... if the GUI doesn't start with a reason that
their setup is broke ... something is wrong ...

remember that orbit might be linked to just about every gnome program
in the future ...

> The big problem with putting little hacks like this in is that we wind up
> with a "good enough" mentality similar to the one that Bill "640k will be
> enough" Gates purportedly holds. Yes, we could indeed hard-code
> "localhost" in, but that would defeat the whole point of having a NETWORK
> desktop.

well ... think about it ... nobody is saying that it is good enough ...
but if it is not neccessairly needed (meaning if the code can't work
around it) ... it should produce a warning, not an error ...

take a look at any compiler ... code that produces warings on -Wall -ansi
-pedantic could easily be considered broken ... yet most people consider
it "good enough" ... doing if (i = 1) might just be right, but is considered
broken code ... but it produces a warning ... even if it is wrong the
compiler still does it ... 

plus I don't think gnome is neccessairly a network only desktop .. as of
now I can't really see any network features which are the CORE of the desktop

> Basic idea is to work with the broadest range of systems possible without
> limiting functionality in any way... 

exactly ... meaning it should work on systems with broken parts if it at all
can ...

if it has to limit a functionality it should warn ... if it considers some
setup broke and has to work around it in "hackish" ways ... it should warn
... however ... it should still WORK ...

> > The best option, in my mind, would be for it to do the DNS and reverse
> > DNS checks.  If the tests succeed, great, if not (i.e. hent==NULL)
> > rather than failing with an error or segfaulting, contunue with
> > server_cnx->hostname = g_strdup("localhost").  This way, machines with
> > proper DNS will have a properly networked ORBit, machines without it
> > will not, but still work locally.
> 
> DNS does not have to be involved, /etc/hosts is your friend.

read above about gnome and setting up /etc/hosts

> > Should I pass on this offer to any BOOTP / DHCP user having problems
> > with Panel :-).  I think your time would be better spent on coding than
> > tech support.
> 
> Here's the premises I'm working under:
> 	- 'hostname' should resolve to a valid IP address, loopback or otherwise.
> 	- The IP address pointed to by 'hostname' should reverse-resolve
> 	  to a valid hostname (presumably, but not required to be, the FQDN)
> 	- The 'hostname' and/or FQDN retrieved using the above procedure
> 	  should be valid for the lifetime of a CORBA server (and the

however ... if the code can work around it ... it should and it should point
out what's wrong to the user ... so that he can press on the foot and
start linux conf so that he can change it ...

imagine an xdm setup ... where almost all programs link orbit .... 

the user logs in
the desktop flashes
X dies
user is back at the login prompt
warning wasn't even seen


even if the warning is a dialog box ...

the user logs in
the desktop flashes
it prints a message about "your dns is broke"
X dies
user is back at the login prompt


hmmm ok .. the user is now severly confused .... how is he supposed to fix
dns if he can't even log in

remember ... people that are fine with logging in on a console and running
vi /etc/hosts ... will mroe likely have a working setup in the first place

George

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George Lebl <jirka@5z.com> http://www.5z.com/jirka/
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