Re: Lack of underlined accelerators in stock buttons

[Havoc Pennington <hp redhat com>]

Federico Mena Quintero <federico ximian com> writes: 
> I am *really* annoyed by this attitude of "screw the stable platform,
> 2.0 will fix everything".  The stable platform is what we use and is
> what users see.  Fixing everything in 2.0 and nothing for what we have
> right now is what most cultures have defined as useless.
> 

Well, *I* am really annoyed by you telling me over and over how you
are really annoyed about the 2.5 people working on GTK 1.3.x not
hacking on the stable platform, aside from getting GTK 1.2.9 out for
GNOME 1.4, which is happening (and Owen has made dozens and dozens of
fixes to pre-1.2.9, which is far more work on stable GTK than anyone
else has done).

We are working primarily on the unstable platform. *You* can work on
whatever platform you want. Stop telling us what we are supposed to
work on.

And, lest you need reminding, 2 or 3 years later the GnomeCanvas is
*still broken* (according to you) and GdkPixbuf stable is *still a
huge security hole and totally unrobust* (according to me). These are
both your responsibility. He who lives in a glass house should not
throw stones. Why don't you focus on fixing your part of the stable
branch, and stop bitching about what other people are doing?  Maybe
you want to fix the segfault/security holes in GdkPixbuf before you go
adding incompatible API to stable libgnomeui?

The fact is that MANY problems simply can't be fixed in stable,
without making stable into unstable and breaking existing code. The
only way those problems will be fixed is to make an incompatible
break. So that's what we are doing. This is important, it will keep
GNOME 2 from getting delayed, and it has to get done. If we spent all
our time on stable then it would not get done.

So 1.2.9 is happening, (and you can submit patches for 1.2.9 - so far
we haven't gotten very many though, I know you've submitted one focus
patch), and that's it. We have to finish GTK 2, and that is what we're
spending time on. There are 50+ people working on GNOME 1.4, I don't
think you need help from Owen and Tim and I.

As an aside, I'm all for fixing the stable platform, but adding
features to it left and right does not do users or developers any
service. It results in a kind of perpetually semi-unstable stable
platform which never moves forward. The proper approach is to *leave
the stable platform stable*, bugfixes only (and sometimes not even
that, you want to remain bug-compatible at times), and *create regular
new stable platforms that fix the larger problems and add
features*. The only way to create a new stable platform is to have an
unstable platform for a time. Sorry if that pisses you off, life
sucks.

You will thank us when we've finished GTK 2 *before* the GNOME 2 devel
cycle gets very far advanced, and you get to port apps to a *stable*
platform.  That is the point of this exercise, and why we're doing GTK
2 now while most poeple are still hacking GNOME 1.4. If we waited to
radically revamp GTK while everyone was porting the desktop to it,
we'd have a pretty nasty mess, wouldn't we?

Anyhow, DO NOT mention this again unless you are sending patches,
putting stuff in Bugzilla, or sending us cash contracting us to
perform the services that you prefer rather than the services that we
prefer. Thanks.

Havoc