Re: [Nautilus-list] Nautilus user testing at MIT

[Nicolas Mailhot <Nicolas Mailhot email enst fr>]

Le ven, 05 jan 2001 23:26:39, david a écrit :
> I was thinking soley of having cursor feedback in the
> "launching" phase, mainly for two reasons:  you can do it
> with existing programs without requiring them to be
> changed/modified (an extremely difficult process, the
> modify all open-source apps, let alone close-source) 

If you move the thobbers to window manager (title bars) /
desktop manager (task list) space, you've got no more
modifying to do than with cursors.

Given the size of cursor forms an similar multi-state
throbber would fit there easylly.

> and
> also because "throbbers" do a good job of feedback in
> those apps that need it after being launched.  What you
> mention as a defect (the cursor getting "stuck" if
> something hangs on load) I see as a feature.  How many
> times have you looked and seen three or four netscape
> sessions loaded in the background, none of them visible? 
> I've had it happen to me a *lot*, and if I had a spinning
> cursor telling me something was wrong, I would investigate
> it a lot sooner.

Well, better to see *what* app is stuck with a dedicated
throbber than search all launched app for the one causing
the problem.

> 
> If you did go the way of the seperate "throbber" that apps
> reported to, how are you going to handle the transition? 
> What happens when a user opens an app that hasn't been
> modified yet?  Wouldn't the inconsistency get frustrating?

Of course, for this to work the throbbers shouldn't be
embeded *in* the application windows, but in WM/desktop
manager space.

>  On the other hand, if Nautilus was handing all the
> launches, it could simply wrap any executables with that
> Xaos (or whatever it was) and instantly get feedback on
> *all* apps.  Again, what am I missing?

This shouldn't depend on nautilus.
Nautilus should not try to do WM/desktop manager work

> P.S. I think I dropped this discussion off the mailing
> list on accident. I'm adding it back to the CC: line.

This kind of discussion belongs to the gnome general gui
mailing list, not the nautilus one. I've changed the CC.

> On Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 12:28:27AM +0100, Nicolas Mailhot
> wrote:
> > 
> > Le ven, 05 jan 2001 00:03:22, david a écrit :
> > > Gah, is this retread of old ground I smell? ;-)  Well,
> as
> > > I wasn't a part of the previous discussion, I don't
> know
> > > what was proposed.  Here is my idea, please feel free
> to
> > > thrash is:
> > > 
> > > When apps are launched in gnome/nautilus, and cursor
> does
> > > a slow "spin" like movement.  It doesn't turn into an
> > > hourglass (which I agree is hard to point), but I've
> seen
> > > the "spinning symbol" metaphor as meaning busy in a
> lot of
> > > other places (particularly web browsers, which you
> > > mention).  The spin continues as long as there are
> apps
> > > waiting to start, i.e., if you click in Netscape, then
> ten
> > > seconds later (while still waiting for netscape to
> load),
> > > you click on The Gimp, your mouse would not stop
> spinning
> > > until the gimp was fully launched (assuming netscape
> > > finished first!).  If you keep clicking, it keeps
> > > spinning.  People get the cursor-based feedback they
> are
> > > used to, you can keep using it as a pointer, and it
> isn't
> > > any more garish or ugly than an hourglass sitting
> there. 
> > > Now, what have I missed?
> > 
> > I see 2 problems :
> > 
> > * what if an app gets stuck ? You might launch a few
> apps,
> > then realise the cursor won't change state. How do you
> find
> > the faulty one then ?
> > 
> > * what if apps report different states ? Some apps might
> > want the cursor in « busy » state, others in another one
> ...
> > How do you decide which state is more important ? How
> many
> > apps will it take for the whole system to become a
> > meaningless nuisance ?
> > 
> > Introducing more states in thobbers is easier I think,
> more
> > intuitive, and works well with as many windows as you
> want.

-- 
Nicolas