Re: To answer your question about the upcoming Style-Guide..

[Tom Vogt <tom lemuria org>]

Bowie Poag <bjp@primenet.com> wrote:
> > pardon me, but are you really working on the next major version of the style
> > guide already? we have barely discussed one point yet, and there's a lot
> > still to come.
> 
> Well, i'm of the opinion that if we sat here and muddled over every single
> point, we'd be here for an eternity, and we would have spent that eternity
> bickering over the reasoning behind specific details instead of paying
> attention to larger issues.

I agree with you here. however, I'm still afraid that the style guide will
look a bit weird with two sections in-depth coverage and 36 sections with
"to follow". :)

I'd like to get a couple more topics rolling, among them:

- the panel
  basic configuration should be more sane and less windoze/kde like. for
  instance, DO remove the "start button" analogy, every ui knowledgable
  person I know agrees that it's one of the worst things ever.

- general layout instructions
  there will be a lot of different gnome apps (hopefully), but a couple of
  general guidelines should help create a consistant appearance of them.
  for example, one already mentioned point is that there should be a rough
  rule of thumb to not clutter the interface. this IS a gnome thing and
  if we want gnome apps to have more in common than the main menubar, we
  have to go into the apps as well and issue guidelines for them.

- templates and examples
  a "general gnome app" template program should be provided, that creates
  a main menu, a default menubar and such, so that this work doesn't have
  to be duplicated by every gnome programmer and is done in a consistant
  way.
  also example programs should be distributed to end-users (i.e. non-geek,
  non-gnome-participants - people who only care that it WORKS) to test the
  various approaches that have, and will again, surface in our discussions.

  


> > >    Standards which make sense, and can survive the test of time, are
> > > more valuable than you can believe. Ever wonder why the distance between
> > > the rails of a railroad track are all the same, no matter where you are?
> > > Its been like that for over 150 years. Why? Because someone back in the
> > > 1840's sat down, thought about it, and did the right thing.
> > 
> > by the way: railroad tracks in russia have a DIFFERENT width. it was part of
> > what successfully closed of russia to the german blitzkrieg in wk2.
> 
> A block of TNT on the tracks will have the same effect. :)

it hasn't. it also disables YOUR use of the railroad.


> I get your
> point, tho. >My< point, however, was that important decisions cannot be
> made solely on the needs mandated in the "now".. They also need to be made
> on the basis of the needs mandated by the future.

I absolutely agree on that. my point went to say that we have to think about
what's good for GNOME - no matter whether it's done differently on other
systems. if there's a good reason to throw overboard a convention, no matter
how common or "well-used-to", we should do it. people have the ability to
relearn, and if how we do it really is better, they will have the
willingness, too.


> > and this is the reason I put time into gnome, but have deleted kde after
> > checking it out. :)
> 
> Indeed, a wise decision. :)

however, I don't like the flame-war very much. I do like the talks between
the projects.
I don't dig the license discussion over kde. qt license is of some
importance, but not much. what I didn't like on kde was the kwm and several
of the core kde features. and I will fight tooth and nail to avoid the same
mistakes being made in gnome. I haven't taken the time to talk to screen
designers, and others to get hit with the "everyone does it this way"
argument.

so in the end I'd like to join the guy who asked that you publish EVERYTHING
style-guid'ish to this list before the general public sees it. there are a
few people here, and many more indirectly involved (as in "someone here
knows someone who...") that know quite a lot about specific and/or more
general aspects of ui design. you should listen to them. listen, not obey,
we all agree that in the end the one who has to code the stuff has the final
decision on the matter.


-- 
The universe does not have laws -- it has habits, and habits can be broken.