Huge Batch Reply: Lars

["Dan \"Effugas\" Kaminsky" <effugas best com>]

Lars:

>Possibly. I suspect, however, that a user would expect different
>functionalities from different menu items ('Gnomeprint|Exit' and
>'File|Exit').

Gnomeprint is created by the interface.  If the app freezes, the interface
should still function...meaning one could kill the app from here.

> And I think the Exit dealing with application file I/O
>argument is a bit weak: users won't be thinking in terms of I/O;
>they'll be thinking in terms of 'programs' and 'files', in my
>experience. Exiting the one may have the side effect of prompting to
>save and close one or more of the other, but this is a side effect;
>nothing more. A safety feature. IMHO. :)

This is something we REQUIRE.  GC1.  This is a key safety feature, it’s a
key interface issue...

> > All I know is, anybody who has ever used a computer before is gonna be
> > thrown for a loop with Exit not being in the file menu. I just asked my
>
>Yes, very probably. :) That's why it needs testing. We need to know
>how hard it will be for people to get used to the idea. If they just
>can't do it, maybe it is not good. But we also need to be concerned
>about how non-previous users will view it. Just because it's always
>been done wrong (IMHO, of course :) doesn't mean we have to.

I never thought I’d see my girlfriend get so pissed about a UI thing.  I
mean, UI, my girlfriend PISSED?

>I do think that it would be a mistake to have it in more than one
>menu, though.

What about Force Quit v. Exit?  Quick easy way to kill process very
logically.

>By 'safety feature', I did not intend to denigrate its importance. It
>_is_ a safety feature, albeit a vital one that I believe cannot be
>ignored. I did not mean that exiting should not cause files to be
>saved, nor did I say that. I merely meant that exiting is an operation
>on the application, not the files it is being used to operate on. When
>I want to save all my files, I save all my files, via 'Save all',
>which _should_ be under the File menu. When I want to exit the app, I
>exit the app, and heaven help any app that doesn't offer to save
>unsaved work before it dies. ;)

GC1.

>Hm. That just brought to mind the verb-noun stuff from HCI class:
>
>I want to Save my Files, therefore File->Save all.
>I want to Exit my App, therefore App->Exit.

I want to do both.  App->Exit.

But you can create 94875934857345 menus by this method...and you can’t
really HAVE that many.