Re: Gnome 2.6: What were you thinking?

["John (J5) Palmieri" <johnp martianrock com>]

On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 15:56, Ingo Ruhnke wrote:

> > Suffice it to say, people get lost and find navigating for files
> > hard, because looking for files is an entirely different operation
> > than browsing the Web (your brain works differently while you're at
> > it).
> 
> How that? I often even 'abuse' the browser for browsing my files,
> since I still find it often superior (ie. quicker, has text input,
> type-ahead find) to Nautilus. Especially I don't see how people 'get
> lost', as with internet, URL-bar happily shows you were you are.

Try typing in a spacial Nautilus window.  Typeahead is there or at least
in my distro (Fedora Rawhide, essentially Core 2).

> > In this regard, GNOME has taken a very good idea from the Mac OS
> > operating system and other graphical environments, and made the
> > "folder" into the "window".
> 
> Well, quite a few people don't think that was a 'very good idea'.
And quite a few people do.  Really any change like this is going to have
people who love it and people who hate it.  Thats just life.  Should we
just freeze the desktop where it is right now and never make a single
change?  The thing I don't get is what the argument is about.  Browsing
has not been taken away. 

> > * Each folder you open *always* opens in the same exact location and
> > with the same size
> 
> Doesn't hurt of course, but doesn't really matter much either for most
> people.

I myself find that I can find files much quicker if they most of the
time pop up in the same location.  It matters a lot.  I hardly used
Nautilus until spacial came along.  

> > * Each folder unequivocally opens in its own window, just like files do
> > as well
> 
> I don't have to navigate through the files to reach other files, thats
> why opening a windows is ok, but I have to navigate through folder to
> reach other files, while doing that am pretty seldomly interested in
> the 'backrecord' of where I where before and back/parent-button can be
> bring there anyway when needed. With deep directory (ie. everything
> larger then two levels) this leads to an insane amount of clutter on
> the desktop with spatial view. That said I find spatial view pretty
> much impossible to use with deep directory trees.
Again that is where browsers excel.  It hasn't been taken away.  However
the future leads us away from such deep hierarchies and into a world of
folders populated from rich metadata searches.  Until then shortcuts
help organize your data so you no longer have to start from /.
> > * There is much less screen clutter, less toolbars, less screen
> > estate devoted to controls, and more screen for your files
> 
> I find the multiple windows cluttering my screen far more distractive
> then a little toolbar. Especially since the toolbar is a usefull thing
> and having a good visible parent-dir button is a good thing, took a
> long time for me to find out that I can actually click this little
> thing that hides in the statusbar.

The parent folder button has gotten an arrow as a visual clue that it is
clickable.

> > * Dragging files around and dropping them becomes much easier
> 
> Yep, but I do that very seldomly, after all I save my stuff in the
> right folders at save time, so there is little need to move them later
> on. And even if I need drag&drop every half serious filemanager will
> open me another windows with minimum effort (middle-click or such).

But most people use file managers to manage their files - make backups,
burn to CDs, etc.  So in reverse, if I ever need to open up one window I
can just middle click.  If I ever need to browse deep directories I can
right click and select Browse Folder.  Oh, oh, oh, I want a Open
Spacial... in browser mode :-)

> > * Looking for files and getting to them is *faster*

> How that? Spatial view provides NO text input (the fasted may to
> navigate through lots of files when you know them), clutters the
> screen with my browse history and provides really nothing to speed up
> browsing (no back-button or such). So I would says that spatial view
> is a good slowdown for browsing files.

Ctrl-L for text input.  Just type for lookahead.  And you just said it. 
Browser mode is better for browsing. It is still there.

<snip>
> 
> A visible toolbar would be much prefered then keyboard magic. Rox does
> this right by basically providing just a single keyboard shortcut '/',
> the rest is just normal text typing.

Uh oh I feel a Vi vs Emacs fight coming on :-)  Just kidding.  Either
way spacial has been chosen (after much consulting with UI
professionals.  Not just us armchair critics) but the browser has not
been taken away.  A bit deemphasized but you have the choice.

--
J5