Re: Mozilla 1.7 rc1 issues.

["david poehlman" <poehlman1 comcast net>]

well, if we are talking about jaws functionality, there are also quick nav
keys that allow you to jump through form controlls, graphics, same and
different elements, paragraphs and all kinds of things.  we also have the
option of having things hidden from us if we want like graphical links with
no text in them and so on.  I think jaws is a good model, but I would like
to have all this and still see how the page is layed out as we do now with
mozilla.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rich Caloggero" <rjc MIT EDU>
To: "Alex Snow" <alex_snow gmx net>; "Luke Yelavich" <themuso themuso com>
Cc: <gnome-accessibility-list gnome org>
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: Mozilla 1.7 rc1 issues.


I have to say that I really like the virtual views that Jaws and Window-eyes
have for presenting web pages. I've not tried Mozilla yet, so can't speak to
how it compares to the Windows web interfaces at the moment, but features I
think are important are:

* be able to move through the page with arrows as in a word processor
buffer. headings and their level should be announced when moving through the
page, as well as links and form fields.

* be able to tab and shift+tab to move forward/backward by link

* h and shift+h to move forward/backward by headings. Should announce
heading and level when moving to a heading either with the heading movement
commands, or when using the arrows to move through the page

Can't speak explicitly to Window-eyes, but with jaws, the virtual view of
the page has links on their own virtual line. paragraphs have a blank line
inserted after them.

Implementing this much would be a great start. See other posts here about
creating lists of links etc. In fact, jaws can create lists of links,
frames, headings, toolbar buttons, and form controls I believe. The lists
are presented in a dialog box, and you can select an item and either move to
it on the current page, or move to it and "click" it, which for links and
form contols, will perform the required action.

Just my two cents...

-- Rich


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alex Snow" <alex_snow gmx net>
To: "Luke Yelavich" <themuso themuso com>
Cc: <gnome-accessibility-list gnome org>
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: Mozilla 1.7 rc1 issues.


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> though there should be an option to turn on/off and control such
> features as headings and blockquotes.
> On Sat, May 01, 2004 at 12:03:20AM
> +1000, Luke Yelavich wrote:
> > Hi all
> > I second all suggestions proposed so far, but I am also thinking that we
> > may need something to indicate blocked quotations, as well as headings
of
> > various levels.
> >
> > Will probably think of more tomorrow, but this is a start from me.
> >
> > Luke
> >
> > At 10:24 AM 30/04/2004, Peter Korn wrote:
> > >Hi Luke, Tom,
> > >
> > >As you have deduced, Mozilla's present caret navigation leaves much to
be
> > >desired.  This is being worked on.  Alas, I don't have an estimate of
when
> > >it will get significantly better (beyond "as soon as possible").
> > >
> > >I'd like to open a related topic: what do you (and the other
Gnopernicus
> > >users on this alias) want in a web browsing interface?  Caret
navigation
> > >is critical for mouseless operation (a mouseless user must be able to
do
> > >anything a mouse-ed user can, including selecting text to copy to the
> > >clipboard), and good feedback from Gnopernicus to caret navigation
should
> > >result in a basic level of blind/low-vision accessibility (especially
if
> > >you include the usual Ctrl-arrow, home/end stuff).
> > >
> > >Now, is that sufficient?
> > >
> > >Sufficient or not, what would you add if you could add something to
> > >this?  Is there an existing set of keybindings and approach to the
problem
> > >you particular like and think would be a good model (e.g. JAWS
browsing,
> > >Window Eyes browsing, Home Page Reader, etc.)?
> > >
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >
> > >Peter Korn
> > >Sun Accessibility team
> > >
> > >
> > >Luke Yelavich wrote:
> > >>Hi Tom
> > >>At 06:01 AM 30/04/2004, Tom and Esther Ward wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>Hi, List.
> > >>>Recently, I grabbed the Mozilla 1.7 rc1 source code, and compiled it.
> > >>>I am having several issues I would like to discuss about it.
> > >>>I noticed that while tabbing through the page I can get spoken
feedback
> > >>>on
> > >>>the frame titles, but none of the links on the page get announced.
> > >>
> > >>I had the same problem as well, even under GNOME 2.6.
> > >>
> > >>>I also noticed on forms the buttons will get announced, but the edit
> > >>>fields are
> > >>>ignored and are not spoken.
> > >>
> > >>The same here also.
> > >>
> > >>>When carot browsing is activated I had assumed it would allow me to
> > >>>uparrow
> > >>>and down arrow through the page elements or at least the text on the
> > >>>pages.
> > >>>Again I get no speech feedback.
> > >>
> > >>Since I have a bit of sight, I have found that the carrot seems to
start
> > >>at the bottom for some reason, and pressing CTRL+Home doesn't always
> > >>help, and you don't know when you are at the top of the page.
> > >>Another thing that I think I have mentioned earlier, is that the
carrot
> > >>browsing mode doesn't take tables into consideration at all. One has
to
> > >>know where the carrot is, and press CTRL+Right Arrow, or Right arrow
> > >>alone to get to the other section of the table.
> > >>
> > >>>Is there anyone or any specific list I should address Mozilla
> > >>>accessibility
> > >>>with? I would like to get involved with testing Mozilla, help find
> > >>>accessibility issues, and report those problems to the developers for
> > >>>future
> > >>>fixes/changes.
> > >>
> > >>http
> > >>://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-accessibility
> > >>Is the mailing list.
> > >>
> > >>>Currently, I linked Mozilla with gnome 2.4, but plan to update to
Gnome
> > >>>2.6
> > >>>in the next couple of weeks. Does it make a large difference with
Mozilla
> > >>>weather I use Gnome 2.4 or Gnome 2.6?
> > >>
> > >>It will perhaps be a bit more responsive, but that is about it I
think.
> > >>Luke
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>gnome-accessibility-list mailing list
> > >>gnome-accessibility-list gnome org
> > >>http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > gnome-accessibility-list mailing list
> > gnome-accessibility-list gnome org
> > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
>
> - -- 
> MSDOS didn't get as bad as it is overnight -- it took over ten years
> of careful development.
> -- dmeggins aix1 uottawa ca
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