Re: Buttons and AtkValue

[Peter Korn <peter korn sun com>]

Hi Padraig,

> This all seems right to me.

What Marc said, echo-ed sometime later due to being out of the office...

Peter

> At 06:16 PM 7/10/2001 +0100, Padraig O'Briain wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >I am slowly getting my head around work stuff after too long off. Comments
> >requested on my proposal below.
> >
> >I propose to do the following:
> >
> >1) Remove the implementation of AtkValue from GailToggleButton.
> >
> >2) Cause a property change for "accessible-state" to be generated when a
> >togglebutton is checked or unchecked either manually or programatically by
> >calling atk_action_do_action (..., 0).
> >
> >3) If a togglebutton or radio button is checked its state set will include
> >ATK_STATE_CHECKED.
> >
> >4) Remove the implementation of atk_object_ref_relation_set() from GailButton.
> >This implementation is incorrect as it specifies that all buttons in a
> >GtkButtonBox are in a MEMBER_OF relationship. It will be replaced by an
> >implementation for radio buttons so that all radio buttons which are in
> >the same Button Group are in a MEMBER_OF relationship.
> >
> >Padraig
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Padraig,
> > >
> > > > Are we saying that Java's implementation of AccessibleValue on
> >AbstractButton
> > > > is a mistake?
> > > >
> > > > I have no difficulty removing AtkValue from GaelToggleButton.
> > >
> > > More like overkill than a mistake...  I don't think it's a problem, and
> > again,
> >I
> > > think it's necessary for tri-state check boxes.  But I don't see a good
> >argument
> > > for it being on AbstractButton.
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > > > Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-list gnome org
> > > > > X-Accept-Language: en
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> > > > > To: gnome-accessibility-list gnome org
> > > > > Subject: Re: Buttons and AtkValue
> > > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > > > > X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-list gnome org
> > > > > X-Loop: gnome-accessibility-list gnome org
> > > > > X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
> > > > > List-Id: GNOME accessibility development
> ><gnome-accessibility-list.gnome.org>
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi guys,
> > > > >
> > > > > > I agree with Bill here.  I think the semantics of what it means
> > to have
> >a
> > > > > > value are important (I.E., the idea of having multiple values
> > with a min
> > > > > > and max).
> > > > > >   Exposing a button as having this goes against that idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me join you in agreement, mostly...
> > > > >
> > > > > Two state buttons don't need values, and probably shouldn't implement
> >them.  A
> > > > > number of programs implement tri-state check boxes.  Should those
> > be done
> >with
> > > > > AtkValue?  If not, what are the states exposed for such a check box
> >(certainly
> > > > > not "checked" and "unchecked"...).
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter
> > > > >
> > > > > > From: Bill Haneman <bill haneman ireland sun com>
> > > > > > To: "Padraig O'Briain" <Padraig Obriain Sun COM>
> > > > > > Cc: gnom        e-accessibility-list gnome org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Buttons and AtkValue
> > > > > > Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:52:32 +0100
> > > > > > Padraig O'Briain wrote:
> > > > > >  >
> > > > > >  > My excuse here is that I am following Java.
> > AccessibleAbstractButton
> > > > > > implements
> > > > > >  > AccessibleValue to set a button to be selected (or not) and
> > get the
> > > > selected
> > > > > >  > state. I propose to follow the same convention for ATK.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This still seems broken to me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For one thing, it complicates life for the AT since it makes it
> > harder
> > > > > > to detect "range controllers" as opposed to just plain
> > > > > > togglebuttons... a range controller with a range of 0 to 1 and no
> > > > > > intermediate values seems like a degenerate case.  OK, a *truly*
> > > > > > degenerate case would have min==max, we ignore that one ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It also seems totally unnecessary since a combination of
> > get_state and
> > > > > > do_action entirely duplicates the functionality of AtkValue for this
> > > > > > case.  Usually I like to keep consistent with the Java API but this
> > > > > > might be an exception.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  > My understanding is that "selected" is equivalent to "checked". I
> >think
> > > > > > I lied
> > > > > >  > in my previous statement about not having an action "toggle". A
> >button
> > > > > > has one
> > > > > >  > action which is to click the button which is probably the same as
> >toggle.
> > > > > >  >
> > > > > >  > Padraig
> > > > > >  >
> > > > > >  > >
> > > > > >  > >
> > > > > >  > > >GtkToggleButton Notes:
> > > > > >  > > >The comments on GtkButton and AtkAction interface also
> > apply here;
> > > > > > i.e. one
> > > > > >  > action on a button. I have
> > > > > >  > > >GaelToggleButton implementing AtkValue interface to set the
> > button
> >to
> > > > > >  > > >active or
> > > > > >  > > >not so I do not have an action "toggle".
> > > > > >  > > >
> > > > > >  > > >***
> > > > > >  > > My understanding of AtkValue is that it is for things which can
> >have a
> > > > > >  > > range of values, and that the "checked" state is for objects
> > which
> >only
> > > > > >  > > have two states.
> > > > > >  > > ***
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > --------------
> > > > > > Bill Haneman
> > > > > > Gnome Accessibility / Batik SVG Toolkit
> > > > > > Sun Microsystems Ireland
> > > > > >
> > > > > > References:
> > > > > > Buttons and AtkValue
> > > > > > From: Padraig O'Briain
> > > > > > [
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