Re: [g-a-devel] RELATION_CONTROLLED_BY and RELATION_CONTROLLER_FOR

[Bill Haneman <Bill Haneman Sun COM>]

Peter Korn wrote:

> Hi Aaron,
>
>  
>
> > Thanks for the info. What implementations exist in AT's and apps for
> > the controller/controlled relationships so far? I'm trying to envision
> > the UI benefits for various kinds of end users.
> >    
>
> At this point I don't believe any exist (we actually just talked about
> this in a meeting with BAUM yesterday). 
Hi Peter, Aaron:

I believe GOK uses this information to help it label sliders and the 
like; it clearly would make sense to do so if we don't already (I'll 
check the code).

I also thought this was part of the information that gnopernicus 
reported in response to the "describe this widget" command, e.g. if the 
user requests more information about the currently focussed widget and 
its surroundings.  Again, if we don't do this yet, it makes sense to do so.

The MEMBER_OF relation is useful in situations where containership 
and/or parent-child relationship doesn't give sufficient, or 
semantically explicit, grouping.  I believe that the gail library now 
implements MEMBER_OF for radiobuttons that are part of a radiobutton 
group.  The main problem with MEMBER_OF is that the semantics of the 
"target" are unclear, i.e. "member of what?".  At the moment all the 
objects with a MEMBER_OF relationship point to one another, but this 
seems suboptimal.  One alternative would be to create an AtkObject which 
is a "virtual grouping object" which doesn't have an explicit onscreen 
component, i.e. the AtkObject represents the "group" itself.

- Bill

> One idea was that this
> information could be conveyed in speech.  The cannonical example is the
> spreadsheet with controller and group relations, where you could imaging
> hearing "Cell B5, Q1 Profit $450,000, contributing to Q1 net of
> $150,000".  Cell B3 is "Q1", cell A5 is "Profit" and the member-of tells
> you that.  Cell B8 is "$150,000" and controller-for tells you that. 
> Cell A8 is "net".
>  

>  
>
> > Also, have similar questions about RELATION_MEMBER_OF.
> > I can imagine this being useful in your SVG engine parts example. It
> > seems like all of the members of a group need to be tied together by
> > one common object that contains them somehow? For example, if I have a
> > set of emails subjects displayed on the screen, and some of them are
> > members of the group "important", then what accessible object are they
> > a member of? Or, am I not understanding the how member of is intended
> > to be used. Perhaps I'm reinventing extensible states.
> >    
>
> We've talked about how relations could be very helpful in SVG.  
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Korn
> Sun Accessibility team
>
>  
>
> > - Aaron
> >
> > Peter Korn wrote:
> >
> >    
> >
> > > Hi Aaron,
> > >
> > > A scrolling field is controlled by a scroll bar.  A text field with
> > > font
> > > size is (or should be) controlled by the listbox of font sizes - see
> > > the
> > > one in the GNOME standard font chooser.  A spreadsheet cell that is
> > > the
> > > output of a function of other spreadsheet cells is controlled by
> > > them.
> > >
> > > The first two examples you cite below wouldn't be controlling
> > > situations.  The zoom, on the other hand, is an interesting question
> > > for
> > > me.  I'd say controlling is appropriate there.
> > >
> > >
> > > Peter Korn
> > > Sun Accessibility team
> > >
> > >
> > > Aaron Leventhal wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >      
> > >
> > > > RELATION_CONTROLLED_BY  Indicates an object controlled by one or
> > > > more
> > > > target objects.
> > > > RELATION_CONTROLLER_FOR   Indicates an object is an controller for
> > > > one
> > > > or more target objects.
> > > >
> > > > Forgive the dense question ... what is meant by 'controlled' in
> > > > this
> > > > instance? What are some typical examples? What is it used for
> > > > today, and
> > > > what are known planned uses for it?
> > > >
> > > > - Is a tree item 'controlled' by the collapse/expand button on the
> > > > parent?
> > > > - Is a window 'controlled by' the close button?
> > > > - Is a document view 'controlled by' a zoom button on the toolbar?
> > > >
> > > > - Aaron
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list
> > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel gnome org
> > > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >        
> > >      
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> >    
>
>