Re: "Meta" packages

[Julian Missig <julian linuxpower org>]

> 
> > Talking with Telsa and Ankh, we came to the conclusion that it would be
> > very nice to have meta-packages for gnome 1.4. Smaller libraries could
> > be grouped together depending upon how essential they are, and this
> > lessens the number of things which need to be installed. I'd simply like
> > to bring it up for discussion. Would some kind of script be created to
> > help those compiling it all, or what? The basic idea is to optimize the
> > packaging and installation so that the downloads a 28.8 user has to make
> > aren't too large, and the number of installations a t1 user has to do
> > are minimal. I feel this will also help spread the new "essential"
> > libraries when the time comes, and it still allows us to only update
> > small libraries via helix-update when necessary.
> > 
> 
> I'm not sure I agree that grouping packages together is such a good
> idea.  The number of packages one has to install really *shouldn't*
> matter.  I've never understood people's complaints with that.  Having
> packages split up by functionality is beneficial for several reasons:
> 
> * each file is smaller...this is very nice for modem users; they can
>   grab one file at a time.
> 
> * one only needs to install what one wants.  if I don't want  
>   gnome-print, for example, I don't have to install it.
> 
> * i can update or remove a very particular element of my system
>   without tampering with the rest of it.
> 
> A user who has a lot of bandwidth shouldn't find installing more files
> difficult.  If that user has the Helix Gnome distribution, it's simply
> a matter of running the updater.  Even if not, just download what you
> want to update in a directory and do "rpm -Uvh *.rpm"  
> 
> Now, one idea that I think *would* be nice is to have an installer
> file format that arhives RPM's all into one file, or optionally
> downloads the necessary files.  In other words it would be an
> executable (or mime type that gnome knows how to handle) that would
> pop up a wizard and install all the RPMs for you.  I know the Gnome
> installer and updater that Helix has written does something along
> those lines, but an installer for Gnome could be useful for other
> Gnome programs as well.  The user could just download the installer
> and it would determine what distribution they are using (Redhat,
> Debian, whatever), and install accordingly.  I'm probably not being
> very coherent.  
> 

Like it or not, the fact is that having too many files to
download/install, no matter what their size, isn't viewed nicely by a
lot of people.

The entire reason for grouping things by how essential they are is that
modem users can grab the essential meta-packages they want, and then
pick and choose the specific non-essential libraries (I would imagine
that the packages would still be available individually, for upgrades
and all). The most essential meta-package could have like gnome-libs and
gdk-pixbuf. Chances are, if people are getting gnome, they'll want both
of those. 

I fortunately became a high-bandwidth user recently, so it's not fair
that I argue for something like this. Hopefully Telsa's around to agree
with me that grouping the packages by how essential they are would help.
And if the modem users really don't want to, they can download the
individual packages. I'm just saying that on the GNOME ftp and such we
should push the meta-packages. With the meta-packages, people have to
worry much less about dependencies and all.

As for RPMs and DEBs, they aren't as much of a concern as tarballs for
people who are compiling GNOME. Yes, I would like meta-package RPMs
(such a thing already exists for debian, and debian users have it easy
enough anyway), but I would really like to see meta-packaged tarballs.

> * each file is smaller...this is very nice for modem users; they can
>   grab one file at a time.

They still have a lot of files to download, and many times it is very
difficult to judge which files they need and don't need. I remember when
I first got GNOME over my 56k I downloaded overnight what I thought were
all I would need, only to find a bunch of dependencies I still had to go
out and download, and even then I wasn't sure.

> 
> * one only needs to install what one wants.  if I don't want  
>   gnome-print, for example, I don't have to install it.

gnome-print probably wouldn't be very high up on the essential scale,
and even so, they could still grab the other pieces of the meta-package
it's in seperately.

> 
> * i can update or remove a very particular element of my system
>   without tampering with the rest of it.

I'm not saying actually combine the the libraries or anything, they
still exist seperately within the meta-package. gnome-libs is gnome-libs
is gnome-libs. Putting it in the ultra-essential package won't change
that. It'll just be installed with gdk-pixbuf and other things.


Julian

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