Re: Patch for bookmark properties (t6)

[Peter Harvey <pah06 uow edu au>]

On Sat, 2006-01-28 at 18:58 +1300, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
> On 26 Jan, 2006, at 2:15 PM, Peter Harvey wrote:
> > ...
> >   http://home.exetel.com.au/harvey/epiphany/t6.png
> >
> > I also need feedback from people on the topic list combobox. Should we
> > remove it? Do people still want the flat list? Is anyone having 
> > trouble with having topics arranged by Selection/Subtopics/Others?
> > ...
> 
> I've had a lot of trouble understanding the topics selector in the 
> various mockups. I think it's quite a bit more complicated than the 
> bookmark properties windows in other browsers, when the original idea 
> of topics in Epiphany was supposedly making bookmark management 
> simpler.
> 
> I think topics could be renamed to keywords, and entered in a single 
> text field with an autocomplete menu.
>   ______________________________________________________
> |(x) ::::::::::: “Slashdot” Properties :::::::::::: (-)|
> |            ________________________________________  |
> |     Name: [Slashdot________________________________] |
> |            ________________________________________  |
> |  Address: [http://slashdo|_________________________] |
> |            _________________________________  __  _  |
> | Keywords: [_________________________________][+v][-] |
> |______________________________________________________|

At one time I had such a text entry. You can see some screenshots here:
   http://home.exetel.com.au/harvey/epiphany/t1b.png

Ignoring the duplication between the text entry and the list, the
criticism it received was:
     1. a "rigid" input format would create problems.
     2. it didn't offer an easy way to use the mouse to select topics.
     3. we have autocomplete with the treeview so a text-input wasn't
        improving things for keyboard users.
I think I'd need to have these concerns addressed before I tried
introducing it again.

It is also doesn't help the user manage their list of topics. One key
thing I wanted to do with the topic selector was take away the burden of
maintaining "consistency" in your bookmarks. For reference, see this
animation of how I would bookmark the Epiphany blog, and how it prompts
me with the topics that I probably want to select:
  http://home.exetel.com.au/harvey/epiphany/capture.gif

Note that in that animation I have 35+ topics over a wide variety of
things. Hunting up-down for Applications and Open-Source, or even
*remembering* that I have an Applications topic, is not something I want
to have to do myself.


> A full menu of keywords would be available from the "+" menubutton next 
> to the field.
>   ______________________________________________________
> |(x) ::::::::::: “Slashdot” Properties :::::::::::: (-)|
> |            ________________________________________  |
> |     Name: [Slashdot________________________________] |
> |            ________________________________________  |
> |  Address: [http://slashdot.org/____________________] |
> |            _________________________________  __  _  |
> | Keywords: [(geek)(news)(tech)_______________][+v][-] |
> |___________| architecture                    1 |A|____|
>              | beer                            4 |:|
>              | cricket                         4 |:|
>              | geek                           13 |:|
>              | golf                            7 |:|
>              |_golfing_________________________1_|V|

I assume that the numbers represent the number of bookmarks in each
topic. Should that perhaps be the number of bookmarks which are in all
of the selected topics *and* those topics? Knowing that "cricket" has 4
bookmarks is not useful for a user once he's selected "geek,news,tech" -
the bookmark clearly has nothing to do with "cricket".


> And once del.icio.us suggestions were implemented, they could be 
> presented as two buttons that would operate on the contents of the 
> Keywords field.
>   ______________________________________________________
> |(x) ::::::::::: “Slashdot” Properties :::::::::::: (-)|
> |            ________________________________________  |
> |     Name: [Slashdot________________________________] |
> |            ________________________________________  |
> |  Address: [http://slashdot.org/____________________] |
> |            _________________________________  __  _  |
> | Keywords: [_________________________________][+v][-] |
> |           ( Get Suggestions ) ( Submit Suggestions ) |
> |______________________________________________________|

I agree with this. I think del.icio.us will eventually be integrated
into the "New topic" button or similar.


> I think that would be the kind of simplicity that people like Epiphany 
> for.

In all the work I've done, I've been aiming for something subtly
different - making the life of users 'easier' by avoiding time spent
managing data structures. I liked Epiphany's bookmarks system because
you didn't have to think about how to develop a hierarchy, you just
selected topics. "Constructing a hierarchical menu automatically" meant
that users now had a hierarchy with *zero* effort. What I'm trying to
achieve here is "ensuring the user always selects all the topics he
intends to", as this is important for topic-based systems.

Thanks heaps,
Peter.