Re: [Epiphany] Bookmarks

[Marco Pesenti Gritti <marco gnome org>]

On Sat, 2003-10-25 at 20:16, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 08:13:42PM -0400, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote:
> 
>  > >  The author does present some nice arguments, but I'd wait for this
>  > >  work to be reviewed by a group of experts in the field before
>  > >  using it to backup design decisions, and I'd particularly avoid
>  > >  this as a justification for inflicting Epiphany's bookmark system
>  > >  on users.
>  > 
>  > Ok I didnt resist. No one is inflicting epiphany and his bookmarks
>  > system on you. We believe we are working on something that is _very_
>  > useful for users.
> 
>  For certain kind of users.
> 
>  In particular, for users who have a handful of bookmarks.  We have had
>  this discussion before, and I know you will read this and probably
>  ignore it because this is not the GNOME Usability Team doing the
>  talking, and I *refuse* to list my qualifications just to be listened
>  to. 

Feh I listen, and reply, to everyone even when I would be more the
justified to ignore (i.e. both your previous mail).
And you are still not getting what I say ... I dont think I'm being
unclear, try to read before replying please.
I'd listen to the usability team also if I'm in disagreement with their
rationale, because I want to hack something good for all GNOME users,
and they are supposed to know more than me about usability.
I wont listen to you if you dont make good arguments to convince me.
Unfortunately you are qualifying yourself with the tone of the email you
send to the list ...
And you are even being incoherent, considered that most part of your
criticism to seth document was about his lack of qualification ...

> You just don't see that the system that Epiphany has does not
>  scale. 

I think hierarchies gives the illusion to scale better while they slow
you down tremendously both organizing and retrieving information.
A spatial organization works well for a low number of items, than you
are forced to work by association if you want to be efficient (Donald
Norman, since you want the references, atm I dont have the the exact
bibliographic reference but I can look for it if you want).
And anyway our primary target is to allow our targeted user base to
organize at least a low number of bookmarks. I have still to see a real
world user with subfolders in bookmarks. Simplifying the interface to
organize bookmarks incourage to use them.

> With Epiphany I have *stopped* using bookmarks because of that
>  reason. 

Very weak argument, there are users that started to use them ...

> I don't want to have to open a dialog (even if it's not modal)
>  and type something in a search box just to be able to find what I'm
>  looking for.  I really want a _menu_ in the program. 

Hrm, are you at least using a reasonably recent release ?

> I don't want
>  folders, I don't want dialogs, I don't want fancy search methods.  I
>  want a menu.  

You are making very strong arguments to require something that already
exist. Go go !

> I have *bad* memory, I don't want to even *try* to
>  recall the name of the topic I came up with when I bookmarked
>  something.  

You think to have a bad memory, hierarchies require a strong use of
recall even if it's less noticable.

And anyway ... you have a menu and you have a list of topics in the
bookmarks view.

> I'm not a librarian, I can't come up with good keyw^Wtopics
>  out of the blue.

Bookmarks hierarchies are a form of categorization, and one particularly
difficult because it's rigid.

>  > We are on crack ? Fine, you have plenty of alternatives, including
>  > that of hacking something you like.
> 
>  I'm not ignoring you in that regard.  I'm just having trouble finding
>  the time.

You arent really impressing me. Everyone have trouble finding the time
.. The important is to use it in a constructive way.

Marco