Re: Gnome 2.6: What were you thinking?
- From: Raul Acevedo <raul cantara com>
- To: Andy Ross <andy plausible org>
- Cc: gnome-devel-list gnome org, nautilus-list gnome org, "Manuel Amador \(Rudd-O\)" <amadorm usm edu ec>, Raul Acevedo <raul cantara com>, desktop-devel-list gnome org
- Subject: Re: Gnome 2.6: What were you thinking?
- Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:41:29 -0700
After writing the entire response below, I think my whole shmeal can be
summed up as follows:
1. Have only ONE way of navigating active at a time, spatial or
2. HAVE THIS BE SWITCHABLE VIA AN EASY TO FIND MENU OPTION. Why is
this so difficult to grasp? How many times do the developers have
to hear this before they finally get that half of the flames would
go away if they just implemented this one single menu entry?
3. I think spatial could ALMOST be awesome... if there were better ways
to deal with the window clutter, that didn't involve all sorts of
special key commands and mouse clicks. I'm not sure what the answer
could be there, but no matter how many case studies you point me to,
I can't get over finding it annoying that new windows pop up all the
time just because I'm looking through a few files. It seems
extremely hard to believe that a majority of people would find it
easier and more intuitive.
Anyway, full rant below. I love GNOME. Please consider the passions
involved as ones motivated by wanting things to get better. :) I know
how to turn spatial off (even though it took a Google search), but
that's not the point... I do want GNOME to be better for everyone.
Andy Ross wrote:
> The world is much bigger than that. A much larger community of
> silent users simply cannot user a tree browser productively AT ALL.
> See below, or investigate for yourself.
I'm sure that is correct. I am also sure that those same people will be
just as confused, in fact probably more so, with an interface that
endlessly creates new windows for them.
> > 2. It takes reading through newsgroups and searching through Google to
> > find the magic incantations to use it reasonably well or turn it off,
> Why does this myth persist?
Oh please. This is not a myth. This is FACT.
THERE IS NO EASY, OBVIOUS INTUITIVE WAY TO TURN THIS BEHAVIOR OFF. End
Having two different inconsistent ways of browsing the file system
active at the same time is not an answer. See below.
> Select "Browse" from a context menu.
That's not what I want, I want to be able to click on my home folder and
have it browse my folder the way I want.
I don't want to have to right click; I don't want to have to find some
other button or menu; I just want to do the obvious and intuitive thing,
which is that browsing through my file system, regardless of how I begin
browsing is (a) consistent and (b) the way I want it.
Right now, GNOME 2.6 is both inconsistent (why have browse and spatial
available at the same time through different means?), and difficult to
get the way I want it (search through Google to find out a weird gconf
> Or create a launcher that runs "nautilus --browse". If you are using
> FC2, there's one in your desktop menu already. If you *really* hate
> the spacial stuff, then hide or delete the spatial icons on your
> desktop and use the launcher for everything.
Oh yes, that is very obvious and intuitive. It also didn't require
specialized knowledge or membership in a development mailing list to
know to run "nautilus --browser", not modifying the most obvious desktop
icons that you clearly want to have there.
> Basically, spend 10 minute configuring your desktop before flaming to
> the rest of the world about it.
But if I and others don't complain about how it bothers us, how will the
GNOME development community learn just how annoying this is? Should we
just stay quiet?
> Try turning that around: explain to your grandmother why a browser
> interface is better, or even what the tree on the left side is
> supposed to represent.
I don't care about the tree on the side pane, I care about what to do
with all those annoying windows that keep popping up.
> Go find some novice, non-technical windows and macintosh (especially
> OS 9 and below) users and watch them. Don't "help" them, don't tell
> them what to do, and don't mock them. Just watch them.
That would indeed be enlightening. However, I find it hard to believe
that anyone will find endless window clutter to be easier to use.
Especially when there's no simple way to turn it off!
> Really, try this. It's enlightening. If you don't like the spatial
> mode, then turn it off. But don't be blind to the needs of the rest
> of the world.
I'm actually still trying it, though still not impressed. I'm *almost*
impressed, but the window clutter is just too much. A few easy to find
GUI prefence options, or perhaps some tweaking on how it works in a way
that prevents so much clutter, would go a long way.
As someone else said, WHY ISN'T THERE A SIMPLE WAY TO TURN THIS OFF???
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