Re: Scripting in Gnome

[Sean Middleditch <elanthis awesomeplay com>]

On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 13:35, jamie wrote:
> > Perl and python are both highly optimized, small and fast cores.  A
> > custom language would not be and would have far less functionality. 
> > Most everything in Perl and Python are implemented as libraries which do
> > not need to be loaded if they are not used.
> Minimal functionality is needed for a simple script engine. IE u dont
> need OO or types (all types are variant in VBA/javascript) or tons of
> built in functionality. IMO python and perl r overkill in that respect.

scripters might n33d 2 have sum of the advantages of 4 full script
library.  (the AOL speak is weakening the weight of your argument - hard
to take anyone who types like that seriously.  and that's meant as a
friendly suggestion, not a flame. ~,^  )

> 
> 
> 
> > That is the chicken before the egg problem.  Rarely are things just
> > accepted into the Gnome core.  They have to prove their worth first. 
> > Personaly I think Gnome is taking the right path with the language
> > binding releases.  Plus technology's like DBUS will make it simpler to
> > communicated with non-bound object.  What you might be happy with is the
> > Mono project which may become part of the Gnome core at some point but
> > it has a lot of hurdles before that happens.  Basically with Mono only
> > one set of bindings need to be produced and any language that can target
> > .Net can use them.  This includes VB if you are so inclined.    
> 
> Mono will never become an *official* part of Gnome due to politics (SUN
> would go ape sh1t if it happened). Also the VB in mono and .Net is
> radically different to VB and is thus completely incompatible. The
> scripting I am proposing is at the same level as VBA - it is not a full
> blown language for developing big apps. Its designed for glue,
> automation and building small apps. 

Which Python/Perl/TCL/Ruby/etc all excel at.  Again, we have the script
side of the solution solved.  It's pointless to waste time reinventing
that wheel.

> 
> 
> > And maintainability suffers because of it.  Code in HTML just sucks
> > IMHO.  Code should reside separately with the XML only being a
> > template.  Model/View rocks.
> You can do that anyhow in XML using include files - one for
> interface/one for code

But what do we actually need the XML for?  You've repeatedly stated how
we need XML to solve this problem without actually stating why.  XML is
just a syntax for heirarchial data.  What does that have to do with
connecting a script language VM/interpreter to an application?

> 
> > 
> > >  A simple generic scripting interface
> > > with syntax defined by XML is a quick and easy way to getting integrated
> > > scripting into Gnome with the least overhead. The only objects that the
> > > scriptiong language should use are bonobo and/or glade.
> > 
> > So your talking about the same thing that orbit does except that ORBit
> > uses IDL's instead of an XML interface.  As I said scriptability really
> > falls on the applications to construct interfaces on which one can call
> > on.  I think DBUS will really be the unifying force here across desktops
> > and on through all the lower layers.  No need for yet another arbitrary
> > language. 
> 
> No the XML will make use of Bonobo/Orbit not replace it. Again Im
> talking about mini scripts here - its nothing that competes with Perl or
> Python. All it is is a generic script engine which enables scripts to be
> used in any language whoose syntax is defined using an xml definition. 

Um, for what purpose?  what do you need this fictional languages for
that you acn't already do with real life languages that already have
perfectly working Bonobo/ORBit bindings?

> 
> VBA is needed anyhow for things like Gnumeric if they want to achieve
> compatibility with Excel

This much is true.  That is a separate problem, however.  That's the
need for yet another interpreter which would just use the same entrance
points that Python/Perl/etc. would use in a scripted application.

> 
> > 
> > --
> > J5
> 
> _______________________________________________
> desktop-devel-list mailing list
> desktop-devel-list gnome org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
-- 
Sean Middleditch <elanthis awesomeplay com>
AwesomePlay Productions, Inc.