Re: [GnomeMeeting-devel-list] Re: You are missing the point

[Christopher Warner <zanee kernelcode com>]

All of what you just said negates the idea of free software. It negates
this "community" that believes in free software. It negates the idea of
standards and it basically says give me what I want or I'll go
elsewhere. The simple fact is that no one is stopping you, if you can't
find what you want here and believe that a proprietary solution will
work best then that is what you need to do. I understand that as a user
you don't care about technical implementations, how things work behind
the scenes or the details involved with all of this VoIP stuff. So i'll
just make the analogy that you are trying to fit a round peg into a
square box. If it's not practical for you to have a Mac in Greece, then
you obviously need to keep looking for solutions.

This isn't a debate either, I'm now telling you that your idea is not
feasible. You said something, it was clarified, you still didn't get the
point, I'm taken the time to clarify further. It's ok to make a mistake
or to misinterpret; we all do. However even with this last post you seem
to be under the impression that somehow we can simply add support for
the listed services. Again, we can't because those other services don't
do what GnomeMeeting does. 

Further Clarification
http://wiki.seconix.com/index.php/What%20is%20Gnomemeeting

"GnomeMeeting is a free audio/video-conferencing application for Linux
and other Unices (e.g BSD or MacOSX). It was written by Damien Sandras
and is licensed under the GNU/GPL. It is based on the +<bold>H.323 ITU
standard</bold>+ and allows you to make audio and video calls to remote
users with <boldH.323 hardware or software (such as Microsoft
Netmeeting)</bold>. It also supports all <bold>modern videoconferencing
features, such as registering to an Internet Locator Service (ILS)
directory, gatekeeper support, making multi-user conference calls using
an external Multipoint Control Unit (MCU), using modern Quicknet
telephony cards and making PC-To-Phone calls. <bold>"

Technically, anything is possible, someone could reverse engineer all
the protocols we've spoken and put them into some non-standard program.
However that isn't the goal of the project at this time or into the
forseeable future. It's not politics or anything else, it's simply that
GnomeMeeting is based on the h323 standard. Probably SIP in the future,
why? It's an open IETF standard.

As for your brother, he can't use NetMeeting? Win98 comes with that and
since NetMeeting supports the h323 standard it will work with
GnomeMeeting. NetMeeting also exists on WinXP by running "conf". 

As for your tone, listen.. everyone here does this in their spare time,
we don't get paid, Damien put's alot of time, effort, blood, sweat,
tears and money into GnomeMeeting including many others that also help
where and when they can including myself, Killian, Johnny, Jonita, Paul,
Fabrice and the list goes on. If you believe it to be useless thats fine
but we don't come knocking on your front door shouting it's useless and
demanding features that don't coincide with the goal of the project.
Everyones here because this is what we like to do and hopefully it can
help someone, somewhere along the way even if it's just us. It's not
about 95% market share, it's not about any of that. It's about me being
able to contact my Uncle in London without paying through the nose, it's
about the group who gets together and has a meeting over a video conf,
it's about the company who uses VoIP hardware to run their daily phone
operations. GnomeMeeting makes communication free, all you need is a
mic.

You've seriously got alot of growth to do in the tact department, you're
extremely brash and antagonistic, it does nothing for anyone involved
with this project. When you can do things on your own that's fine, when
you pay someone to do something, thats fine. When you do that to
volunteers, people having fun on their own time; thats harassment.

Now; the conversation is over.

On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 19:42, Eugenia Loli-Queru wrote:
> Christopher Warner wrote:
> >Ugh, the problem is this, your analysis is just completely incorrect even
> this response doesn't get it.
> 
> No, the problem is that you don't get what I am talking about. My article
> was NOT about Gnomemeeting and Gaim. That paragraph on my article about
> video chatting just USED the example of Gaim and Gnomemeeting (because they
> are already there, fully working) to PRESENT a NEED for "casual video
> chatting with MSN and Y! or iChat users". That paragraph was NOT about
> Gnomemeeting or Gaim in particular. But these are out there today, so I used
> them to make my case. The header of that paragraph was "Text and Video
> Messaging Integration", not "I want Gnomemeeting to be something else than
> it is".
> 
> If a new app called "GVideoChat" or whatever comes out tomorrow and does
> what I do, I would be pleased, even if it might be using Gaim or GM code or
> not. I am not interested in the technicalities involved, just in the end
> result. You don't need to educate me of what GM does or does not do. I know
> what it does, I use it.
> 
> >This is opensource, it would be idiotic to base future communications on a
> proprietary protocol which is what Yahoo, Aol, iChat, Messenger, Skype do.
> 
> Base? No. Create your own protocol, I don't care what could be your primary
> default video protocol (like in the .ogg case).
> But support these proprietaty protocols? IMHO, when possible, absolutely!
> 
> >So long as there is a phone at the other end you don't have to worry about
> anything else.
> 
> Sorry, but I am not interested in paying extra money to use hardware
> solutions. iChat and iSight does what I need great without extra hardware,
> it is just that it is not so practical having a Mac in Greece and other
> countries (for other reasons I won't mention here).
> 
> >but you still won't be able to call your brother until he gets an h323
> compliant phone.
> 
> Oh, so the 1% of the market now dictates what the 95% of the market should
> do in order that 1% interoperate with that 95%? I am sorry, but this is
> pointless. I use computers to solve problems, not to create more. What I
> simply asked was an app that supports (yes, proprietary) videoconf protocols
> on Unix so I can interoperate with 95% of the world who mostly use MSN
> rather than just with this 1%  vLtRa-l33t commuinity of yours.
> 
> I am a practical person, not a politician: If this request can't be done for
> technical or legal (patents) reasons I will understand, I will bite my lip
> and look elsewhere, no hurt feelings. But if the Linux solutions can't offer
> me this for political reasons, then I am not interested in any more debates
> over this, I pack my bags and definately go elsewhere, where the grass is
> greener and feature requests have more weight on developers as they are
> getting paid to make paid customers happy. I am absolutely fine with this
> development model too, you know.
> 
> I am not really interested in any more debates over this, enough with
> spamming the desktop-devel list. I think we all get our points so far and
> explained our views and misunderstandings. Email me directly if you have a
> question.
> 
> thank you,
> Eugenia
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-- 
-- Christopher Warner 
[KC] http://www.kernelcode.com