Re: Session Properties and Crack up Programs

[Glynn Foster <glynn foster sun com>]

Hey,

> Do you have log of it? I couldn't find them;-)

Working on it, hopefully we'll have something up in an hour or two...I
just have to find the right guys to get the log off.

> I'm not sure, that this is the right aproach. I don't think is that confusing,
> and it is an advanced capplet, anyway.

Try documenting it ;)

> Well not the average user, but the average(ENOENT) poweruser, that has to get
> something fixed!

Yes, as James Cape commented this afternoon -

"That's the only reason I've ever been to this dialog, because I'm
trying to work around some other problem in GNOME that should be fixed"

> Why? It won't hurt, it doesn't make internal logic overly complicated, and nnotr
> every body like session managment as of today. (Yes in the start trek future we
> might just like it;-))
> I'm happy to see the same screen every time I log in, no matter how much I
> messed it up last time. I really searched for such an option with
> Explorer(windoze) quite a long time before giving up on it.

I think consistancy should be our number one priority...that and
usability. Yes, I'm definitely of the 'fewer options are better' camp.
How many users actually care what is in their session? If you are happy
to see the same screen every time you log in, then it won't make a
difference if you are on 'Autosave' or not.

> Yeah, I'm not the usual user, but why chop this option for "useability"
> conserns?

Okay, you try and document this feature...and then I'll tell you the
various subtleties ;)

> Ever heard about "splash screens are bad"? Do it if you have to, but most likely
> some kiosk-systems will suffer, or some other thing.

So we make it a hidden from the UI GConf option. Problem solved. We
shouldn't have this type of thing in the UI - especially since a large
amount of companies shipping this would rather prefer it it was on and
the users didn't have an option...and I'm not speaking only Sun here.

> If it's so broken, we should fix it (or make something better). Till then it
> should be hidden. So I agree on this point.

It should be in the login manager.

> Hmm, well it could be much nicer than having to edit a dot file in your
> homedirectory to get something started. I personaly use the dot file approch,
> but... It would be useful to know the current uses for it.

Yeah, I'm not too sure which is the best option for this.

> Definitivly a BAD idea. We need this to fix stuff. Maybe some program is out of
> control (UI hidden, no way to stop, whatever) and we need a way to get out ouf
> the session. Or I might want to get one of the autorespawn programs out of it,
> because it crashs or I have to debug it. (Yes you might think users debuging
> gnome is bad).

Yeah, we do need to fix it...which is why this mail came about....are
you volunteering? See quote from James above.

> And it's a nice way to see what going on in my session. To mislay this to
> $(prefix)/lib/bonobo/monikers is a bad idea too, because we should not try to
> shield the users from useful tools!

Um, I was kinda joking on that point..
 
> Let the people grow into their OS/Desktop and don't keep them in a sand box
> forever!

Yes! Let's also show them how to get around broken things in our Desktop
too...since, well, we're not all perfect are we?

> We should not try the mimick Microsoft in making things obscure, undocumented,
> intransparent.

Um, well, you kinda miss the point about this. We have been doing the
UI/String review with some the documentation and usability folks...so
making things obscure definitely isn't our plan.

				See ya,
					Glynn ;)