Re: Still need a hint for undecorated windows

[Bill Haneman <Bill Haneman Sun COM>]

Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:

>On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 11:33:09 +0100 Bill Haneman <Bill Haneman Sun COM> babbled:
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>>I'll just note that this behavior turns out to have bad consequences for
>>accessibility. For instance, if a user is trying to use an onscreen
>>keyboard (one of the most common cases where this turns up problems) in
>>'dwell mode', any pointer grabs will disable the onscreen keyboard. If
>>the user can only point but cannot click (for instance the user is using
>>a head tracker), then s/he is locked out.
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>then how do they press "ok" or "cancel" or just about anything in x without
>being able to "click" you need to heuristically think they'd want to click if
>they rest on a position for a while. most things in x wont work without a click
>(or a keystroke)
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Many of the users we're talking about here may be quadraplegic. That
doesn't mean they should be locked out of their computer system. The
assistive technologies are what make it possible for users who can't use
a keyboard or mouse to still operate the system; X grabs defeat the
ability to do this with off-the-shelf devices.

>>XInput can be used to work around this by driving/controlling all
>>onscreen keyboard devices via something other than the core pointer, but
>>this introduces a configuration nightmare in practice for all sorts of
>>reasons. Multiple HIDs work OK via XInput as long as you want them "all"
>>to drive the core pointer, but if you don't, you're venturing into
>>unsupported-land. So pointer grabs make it very difficult to support
>>some configurations. Keyboard grabs are worse, you want to avoid them at
>>_all_ costs...
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>not sure how this makes it hard. you can still do all you need to. maybe you
>just aren't using enough of x? :) you could do what you wanted via xtest and
>pointer polling as well as the cursor controlled by the accessibility device
>(taking your example) :)
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You can't do this with Xtest, or Xrecord either. You might SORT OF be
able to do it with Xtrap, but nobody supports that anymore.

>>I am not suggesting an alternative, because I know failing to grab the
>>pointer breaks stuff too (for everybody). I am just saying that one
>>would be very desirable.
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>just suggesting that i think you can do what you want... with or without grabs
>:)
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Nope. Grabs are evil, believe me.

Bill

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>>best regards
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>>Bill
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>>>Kind regards, pl
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