Re: Decorations (again)

[Paul Warren <pdw ferret lmh ox ac uk>]

On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Michael ROGERS wrote:

> >I think that pinnable menus are as widespread as toolbars, and as I
> >indicated, I think there is a case for distinguishing them to allow for
> >functional and visual differences from other windows.
> 
> Fair enough - although arguably, menus and toolbars require the same 
> decorations (small, probably just the ability to move and close them).

Yeah - but there is no harm in distinguishing them with hints - your
average wm will just treat them the same, but an all-singing all-dancing
one could choose to differentiate...
Hangon - what is the difference between a pinnable menu and a toolbar?
Apart from the shape of the buttons?  Maybe they should be the same thing
hint wise.  I don't know :-)

> >What about windows that want no decoration at all, but still wish to be
> >managed?  Perhaps that should be a hint?  Or do we invent some more
> >categories?
> 
> If we have an Undecorated category, and a "Keep above" and "Keep below" hint,
> docks and desktop icons can use a combination of these, so we don't need Dock
> or Desktop categories. Sounds familiar...  ;)

:-)  Except that IMHO window+ontop+nodecoration != dock, because dock
windows probably want to be stacked in a different layer from normal
windows with ontop set.  I don't think that the ontop hint has much
meaning for anything other than a normal window...

Should undecorated be a category or a hint?  I'm not sure about that
one.

> >And one final point: the current draft has 
> >
> >#define _NET_WM_HINTS_STANDALONE_MENUBAR  (1<<4)         /* this window is
> >a standalone menubar */
> >
> >Where does that fit into all this?  (I'd say it doesn't :-)
> 
> I'm sure menubars can be squeezed into one of the existing categories.  :)

Yeah.  I'm not sure what a standalone menubar is, if it isn't a pinnable
menu or a toolbar...  Let's scrap it from the spec and see if anyone
notices ;-)

> >> Hints (set zero or more):
> >> 
> >> Modal
> >> Group modal
> >> Urgent
> >
> >The ICCCM hint, or another one?
> 
> I meant the ICCCM one, so I suppose it doesn't belong in this list.

Well, we need to indicate here that the ICCCM hint is the way to set
urgency.

> Categories:
> 
> Undecorated  }} Make that a hint?
> Toolbar      } Merge these into a  }} don't ask me :-)
> Menu         } single category?    }} Cool.  2D emails...
> Dialog
> Main window
> 
> New hints:
> 
> Stay on top
> Stay below
> Modal
> Group modal
[ Urgent (ICCCM) ]
[ Omnipresent (use DESKTOP hint) ]
[ Non-resizable (use WM_SIZE_HINTS) ]

[...Non resizable...]
> Sorry - I meant using minsize == maxsize sounds like a good idea. That way
> applications can expect consistent behaviour inside and outside the DE, in at
> least *one* respect!  :)

:-)

Paul