From jaybee444@gmail.com Fri May 1 15:25:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B06E75017A for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 15:25:03 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 981 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v+0PvM-bGhHF for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 15:24:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF057502E1 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 15:24:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so2250754ewy.15 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 08:24:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type; bh=rHttzW1fTc1zPhGGZ931VbDWR2aqRSSFu9dHfOXo4SM=; b=T2wDSXNGtJ30v1FHT1e5kMTaPsUQQCp/R4Q6AqkV6sIovbA/h/Y/XWWGf0MuaP2H1i UfBgQ79lRbG/M96tlMIcUhz/uvaKfnWLeVckLqkX9POZKHuqaEbvPwSy1GjFvuYSTv2b sK78+98h3wkCrO7DWcUtIKNHiE6rn7NJ9pPEE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; b=e5ilwhPyqNzB/472/BJP8uEWEwCDCYRwoOFCvCLbISrpqobv2t1FHR1477LdWhOy/x z9fOWe2ogW0bstuC+7T4FsNNqtGIqgT5a9kIRxi07SBOjOwFb9NWKfqg/V8gA+IHQjQ8 sFx8QKwLRQogIKMzdKH/QbEjH0iC6tlklBDpc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.39.8 with SMTP id m8mr1549525ebm.91.1241191484256; Fri, 01 May 2009 08:24:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Bee Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 17:24:24 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Task list in Gnome Shell - mockup To: Gnome List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151748e9048473a20468db6928 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 15:25:03 -0000 --00151748e9048473a20468db6928 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, here is my attempt at eliminating the bottom task list. It could be combined with the "Breadcrumbs" mockup already mentioned here. The mockup is located here: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/TaskListDropDown And.. excuse my poor Inkscape skills, try to imagine the whole thing in action and maybe with different width/height/placement... Thanks, Igor --00151748e9048473a20468db6928 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello,
here is my attempt at eliminating the bottom task list.
It cou= ld be combined with the "Breadcrumbs" mockup already mentioned he= re.

The mockup is located here:
http://live.gnom= e.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/TaskListDropDown

And.. excus= e my poor Inkscape skills, try to imagine the whole thing in action and maybe with different width/height/placement...

Thanks,=

Igor
--00151748e9048473a20468db6928-- From sander.dijkhuis@gmail.com Fri May 1 17:25:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4839675033A for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 17:25:34 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 11694 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aZpS5Xj6seyC for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 17:25:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A032D750331 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 17:25:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so2274486fxm.15 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 10:25:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=JgIxNOLgiM1uPkjvxUd0Db3zv2hPS1u4M8G5RyG7b4k=; b=Vv2QsQ8JCRnkxrAYecf4iNVr1a82DR3sEiH5PF+fmB6HZ8S51JnP6jXycjhji1TKi2 WJFsg+HQR/SXec2pxkJowOCEOtrhkxepH85LNd5g5Yw0weF/GcODP1aKr9j0kQGnUNqA eu3jD85DeUGb2sX9ge9/WEANKobw+Zq++F3pg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=G69M0XAEWCe7QBmgIXqVXECDUeq89CmcPFXmFQ3XOt8Xpp5RX85Ky5qNSBXZCiaH1S MysKg5nv8l3MSFAE4T67OGZsLpm/22FCVSapyH0LbqbfpB9JDa7XKflLD4E7d2/GKo03 LsJYNOKp+Inuz9h5WS11LZ4QxVk+BA6Kfnu8c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.98.7 with SMTP id v7mr3064096fgb.58.1241198715259; Fri, 01 May 2009 10:25:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Sander Dijkhuis Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 19:24:55 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Task list in Gnome Shell - mockup To: Jay Bee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 17:25:34 -0000 On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Jay Bee wrote: > here is my attempt at eliminating the bottom task list. > It could be combined with the "Breadcrumbs" mockup already mentioned here. > > The mockup is located here: > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/TaskListDropDown Nice ideas! I especially like the (!) icon for windows requesting attention and the way tab titles are shown inside the menu. Opening the menu on mouse hover might be irritating when you want to reach something near the panel (like a window's title bar) and accidentally move the cursor to the window list button. I think a widget like the drop-down box in GTK+ would work well. Also I'm not sure about automatically re-ordering the windows each time the stacking on the desktop changes. In the GNOME 2 panel I like how you can manually change the order. In your design, this could work the same way as re-ordering items in the Windows Start menu. I'm implementing some of these ideas to play with the breadcrumbs-with-menus thing. Even if that doesn't work out, the window menu code could be used to experiment with your ideas. For switching workspaces, a menu like this can be used too. Instead of displaying a list of workspace names, it might be easier to find the right workspace when the layout from the Activities overlay is duplicated. From ankere@gmail.com Fri May 1 17:44:50 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A35D6750354 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 17:44:50 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 11698 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9SrxcyM2Uhmk for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 17:44:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B8DE750353 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 17:44:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so2281226fxm.15 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 10:44:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=yxLbHLqMHSU11lPf8ABsQRnma9yXW2/jgPH9e4I4/ns=; b=p89evQSGFacksSN+pRKfyDqp2GdyBTkPAkEgNxI6hlDjONKwfpRpJRnOBEYLyk5s8Z bZEiE+q11bA33CI6vrkp6zF18qxrmcLKPe7PLoWVRBApF90pHHDbES5RG82r7Byg8wiF Xc1EV6BNvSh/vJ5L5s50V/71GWfnGmk1wXvPk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=Fe6hkC2qZn0XXSBjFbLCiEzW4vtQpuIFBx9CYqgwMonLouzIm/OiS/7R7uK4v4Jh7Y qwHqWswRWIWLJXh/SjiYu5M+Ddo4T/9EhICu9KLyx2QjEUtEFKBc99ShPa6cwKS2vrKZ mbSUPq9Im9MolwTB82v/SXQl6LHt/esM61OtQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.223.2 with SMTP id a2mr1769932mur.54.1241199869388; Fri, 01 May 2009 10:44:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 20:44:29 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905011044s2449334eu9b3ebb3c54747c2e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Task list in Gnome Shell - mockup From: Anton Kerezov To: Jay Bee Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163642702b4f6a4b0468dd5dd3 Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 17:44:50 -0000 --00163642702b4f6a4b0468dd5dd3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Jay Bee wrote: > Hello, > here is my attempt at eliminating the bottom task list. > It could be combined with the "Breadcrumbs" mockup already mentioned here. > > The mockup is located here: > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/TaskListDropDown The one thing that I think might be a problem is that some people are switching windows based on their orientation (left & right) and this require that the user should see all available options without clicking or hovering something (like the current taskbar). Ideal solution would be something like shelf I think. Anton -- A.K. --00163642702b4f6a4b0468dd5dd3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Jay Bee = <jaybee444@gmai= l.com> wrote:
Hello,
here is my attempt at eliminating the bottom task list.
It cou= ld be combined with the "Breadcrumbs" mockup already mentioned he= re.

The mockup is located here:
http://live.gnom= e.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/TaskListDropDown

The one thing that I think might be a problem is that some people are s= witching windows based on their orientation (left & right) and this req= uire that the user should see all available options without clicking or hov= ering something (like the current taskbar). Ideal solution would be somethi= ng like shelf I think.


Anton



--
A.K.
--00163642702b4f6a4b0468dd5dd3-- From jaybee444@gmail.com Fri May 1 19:08:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5B17503A9 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 19:08:16 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.521 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, TW_JK=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 1018 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k3AMfnKAkN6U for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 19:08:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 188E27503BD for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 19:08:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so2335673ewy.15 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 12:07:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=s8gyZgN41TlHOe35v6HWwmmYUUXzOrWGafFCE0NSlDI=; b=eLdi7ma2mXJfl64axz+VVP79SEztOm7qlt8D0etXJ3Z3WbAF55I8YsplY4X7yyx/zj Ka/aOIyr27yUAxkISyDzIEyITiTEgmQJRTg+ZUc6RqbnGH6FnSMYx6sAzd2MoKd8BYwp YApomJ1Gdcch/3ZAyxRkkq1Yad+gGcKOhv+nI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=mRxHjZ2Z2ZGZm4ZZTO3CWUIgskI+Z6XUB/oG/Rp7WvT0DOoqElrXRmbzGEu5G/8kei z9fhmaBcKs2YZGKl/eOHf+CsNgt61U1Q9DrCEl8g416jUhmyNubcm69y6p/hp93+kLLU 5EvB7SqSAPS61dQvC5IQTc6Bx+2pQdk8pXoMA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.76.4 with SMTP id y4mr849525eba.27.1241204879118; Fri, 01 May 2009 12:07:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7a7e682b0905011044s2449334eu9b3ebb3c54747c2e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7a7e682b0905011044s2449334eu9b3ebb3c54747c2e@mail.gmail.com> From: Igor Vatavuk Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 21:07:39 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Task list in Gnome Shell - mockup To: Gnome List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174bdf28e9d3350468de8737 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 19:08:16 -0000 --0015174bdf28e9d3350468de8737 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 7:24 PM, Sander Dijkhuis wrote: > > Opening the menu on mouse hover might be irritating when you want to > reach something near the panel (like a window's title bar) and > accidentally move the cursor to the window list button. I think a > widget like the drop-down box in GTK+ would work well. I was aiming at 1 click switch so that's why I choose hover instead of click, however, I can see how this could cause problems. Also I'm not sure about automatically re-ordering the windows each > time the stacking on the desktop changes. In the GNOME 2 panel I like > how you can manually change the order. In your design, this could work > the same way as re-ordering items in the Windows Start menu. The active window is always on the top of the list and as you change active windows others sink down so it was only natural to stack them in the list in the same order as they are stacked in the workspace... On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Anton Kerezov wrote: > > The one thing that I think might be a problem is that some people are > switching windows based on their orientation (left & right) and this require > that the user should see all available options without clicking or hovering > something (like the current taskbar). Ideal solution would be something like > shelf I think. > > > Anton > I understand your point but I was trying to eliminate anything other than top panel to save the screen space. Shelf takes a lot of screen space unless it's hidden... but then minimized windows or windows requesting attention can't be seen until the shelf is shown either on hover or on click/keyboard shortcut. If Gnome Shell is going to lose the bottom panel, which is the plan I think, there's only a number of ways to go about it and not waste even more space than a panel would waste. -Igor --0015174bdf28e9d3350468de8737 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 7:24 PM, Sander Dijkhuis = <sander.d= ijkhuis@gmail.com> wrote:=A0
Opening the menu on mouse hover might be irritating when you want to
reach something near the panel (like a window's title bar) and
accidentally move the cursor to the window list button. I think a
widget like the drop-down box in GTK+ would work well.
I was aiming at 1 click switch so that's why I choose hover instead of = click, however, I can see how this could cause problems.

Also I'm not sure about automatically re-ordering the windows each
time the stacking on the desktop changes. In the GNOME 2 panel I like
how you can manually change the order. In your design, this could work
the same way as re-ordering items in the Windows Start menu.

The active window is always on the top of the list and as you change active windows others sink down so it was only natural to stack them in the list in the same order as they are stacked in the workspace...

On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 7:44 PM, = Anton Kerezov <ank= ere@gmail.com> wrote:

The one thing that I think might be a problem is that some people are s= witching windows based on their orientation (left & right) and this req= uire that the user should see all available options without clicking or hov= ering something (like the current taskbar). Ideal solution would be somethi= ng like shelf I think.


Anton
=A0
I understand your point but I was trying to eliminate any= thing other than top panel to save the screen space.
Shelf takes a lot o= f screen space unless it's hidden... but then minimized windows or wind= ows requesting attention can't be seen until the shelf is shown either = on hover or on click/keyboard shortcut.
If Gnome Shell is going to lose the bottom panel, which is the plan I think= , there's only a number of ways to go about it and not waste even more = space than a panel would waste.

-Igor

--0015174bdf28e9d3350468de8737-- From siggi.gevatter@gmail.com Fri May 1 19:20:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B1837503CA for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 19:20:36 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 11858 hrs), (distance 14, link: (Google 2)), [74.125.46.30] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1AH47cPaGxkd for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 19:20:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.30]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 966EC7503BD for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 19:20:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so1472151ywj.63 for ; Fri, 01 May 2009 12:20:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=bv3juHBLN7tMUqBLJg34eUtts4EgNOSX8R+AxDoxDpE=; b=SvQlvaWr2N49VzJ9ayckqOID1AJxHF5diyGOPLVZDPLn8dALtOtyg6N9GU40xznFFr Xe79dAl/3ZxD2WzK3coJmrEbrg8OkeHNq3be4wZFYIPr2YYwGR0ewCxzetBaV168Va5v uDO5SPdui9wxiYvHD6F0LL7y4caNWBNkQekDM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=WXT2QxH+b6hwFxTIEYTM8cZ6L/PrnS/0ppAKmlcT3hcyS50l6pNVmyXkZF0Wvq8lW6 ofdtsei3GM1sXFSQtpvCwrFUisTIhJR4vHheN5BbjqPkZYgObSovYz3yAVs+wEjzz2pW xaNFfI+lKfh25oTigdvzdYqDnRP/H0xChVGlA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.129.5 with SMTP id g5mr6165387ybn.235.1241205198456; Fri, 01 May 2009 12:13:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7a7e682b0905011044s2449334eu9b3ebb3c54747c2e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 21:13:18 +0200 Message-ID: <357b51820905011213pcba8275s97d1ecec7d18991d@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Task list in Gnome Shell - mockup From: Siegfried-Angel To: Igor Vatavuk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 19:20:36 -0000 2009/5/1 Igor Vatavuk : > I was aiming at 1 click switch so that's why I choose hover instead of > click, however, I can see how this could cause problems. Perhaps only a few pixels at the top could show it without clicking (it's easy to throw the mouse there). -- Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) Ubuntu Developer. Debian Contributor. From maxx@krakoa.dk Fri May 1 21:26:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2057503E9 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 21:26:42 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_Unix=-1] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: FreeBSD 6.x (1) (up: 10921 hrs), (distance 25, link: ethernet/modem), [212.242.43.251] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id phlDHGObj8zh for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 21:26:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp1.cybercity.dk (smtp1.cybercity.dk [212.242.43.251]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ED3B750383 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 21:26:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from user4.cybercity.dk (user4.cybercity.dk [212.242.41.50]) by smtp1.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8DB25889FD; Fri, 1 May 2009 23:26:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.198] (0x4dd4b802.adsl.cybercity.dk [77.212.184.2]) by user4.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 732005020D; Fri, 1 May 2009 23:26:23 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Gnome Shell display white screen and blurred windows From: Mads Villadsen To: Stephen Young In-Reply-To: <1239909852.3653.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <8c46c4be0904150624n1f6ce780g93d94992fd68b93e@mail.gmail.com> <1239909852.3653.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 23:26:23 +0200 Message-Id: <1241213183.3844.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 (2.26.1-2.fc11) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 21:26:42 -0000 On Thu, 2009-04-16 at 21:24 +0200, Mads Villadsen wrote: > On Wed, 2009-04-15 at 15:24 +0200, Stephen Young wrote: > > I am running Ubuntu Intrepid, I have compiz installed but stop it > > before launching gnome-shell. I am running on an HP nx9420 with ATI > > x1600 graphics, using the restricted driver that ships with Ubuntu. > > > > Are there any logs that I could attach to help diagnose the problem? > > I am having the same issues, but only when running gnome-shell > --replace. If I run it in Xephyr, then everything is fine (although a > bit slow). > > I am using metacity, Fedora 11 Beta on a Dell Latitude D820 with Intel > 945GM graphics. Are there only the two us experiencing this problem? Is there anyone who has any idea as to what more information I can provide to help debug this? Kind regards. -- Mads Villadsen From otaylor@redhat.com Fri May 1 23:36:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A2BE750420 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 23:36:31 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.739 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.739 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=1.783, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, TW_LR=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) (NAT!) (up: 6479 hrs), (distance 14, link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [66.187.237.31] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YKq3oFR6RF90 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 23:36:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx2.redhat.com (mx2.redhat.com [66.187.237.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E558750427 for ; Fri, 1 May 2009 23:36:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (int-mx2.corp.redhat.com [172.16.27.26]) by mx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n41NaC8v008961; Fri, 1 May 2009 19:36:12 -0400 Received: from ns3.rdu.redhat.com (ns3.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.255.199]) by int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n41NaBEm011629; Fri, 1 May 2009 19:36:11 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sebastian-int.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.221]) by ns3.rdu.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n41NaAlf017561; Fri, 1 May 2009 19:36:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Gnome Shell display white screen and blurred windows From: Owen Taylor To: Mads Villadsen In-Reply-To: <1241213183.3844.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <8c46c4be0904150624n1f6ce780g93d94992fd68b93e@mail.gmail.com> <1239909852.3653.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241213183.3844.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 19:36:09 -0400 Message-Id: <1241220969.26222.80.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 172.16.27.26 Cc: Stephen Young , gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 23:36:31 -0000 On Fri, 2009-05-01 at 23:26 +0200, Mads Villadsen wrote: > On Thu, 2009-04-16 at 21:24 +0200, Mads Villadsen wrote: > > On Wed, 2009-04-15 at 15:24 +0200, Stephen Young wrote: > > > I am running Ubuntu Intrepid, I have compiz installed but stop it > > > before launching gnome-shell. I am running on an HP nx9420 with ATI > > > x1600 graphics, using the restricted driver that ships with Ubuntu. > > > > > > Are there any logs that I could attach to help diagnose the problem? > > > > I am having the same issues, but only when running gnome-shell > > --replace. If I run it in Xephyr, then everything is fine (although a > > bit slow). > > > > I am using metacity, Fedora 11 Beta on a Dell Latitude D820 with Intel > > 945GM graphics. > > Are there only the two us experiencing this problem? > > Is there anyone who has any idea as to what more information I can > provide to help debug this? I don't think the two problems are at all related; your report sounds like a mesa bug: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=496515 Try the referenced package from koji.fedoraproject.org. (It, or something newer, should land in F11 soon.) For the fglrx problem - well, problems have been reported before. gnome-shell works reasonably well with the open source Radeon drivers, so there's no real reason to use fglrx for an r5xx like the x1600. (Hopefully we'll have open source 3D support for r6xx/r7xx soon too.) To figure out what is going on with fglrx is generally a pretty hard thing because it *is* a closed source. So you basically are trying to reverse engineer: - Compiz doesn't trigger this problem - gnome-shell triggers this problem - What are they doing differently? And the problem could well be some fglrx bug that Compiz just doesn't happen to trigger. (It could also be some gnome-shell/mutter bug, of course, that just happens to work with the open source drivers and the nVidia proprietary drivers.) There's not a lot that can be done at the level of attaching a log; if someone wants to dive in and debug I can try to try provide some hints at what to look at. - Owen From ankere@gmail.com Sat May 2 07:01:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C29DB750063 for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 07:01:55 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3271 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.159] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wUZ-vKwPYM4g for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 07:01:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f159.google.com (mail-bw0-f159.google.com [209.85.218.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68BE875006B for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 07:01:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so2452962bwz.15 for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 00:01:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=199if3NRkkVk5v9GlwtLoABiI6B3dTXDnpizThzafdE=; b=Z09pRgWUgy/alZ2FNIcy5dyF4sxm3kgDwVNt/qPK/n7VcW/NDTwKQ3ZNH1WwdmjolZ WxxQFP9KMkrm0stSHL3Xm5ctoWFWLiVaILm6ndg+2QQ41Gy9qAUezl2Ug+On/Wue6Mtv /i7jfbC9dCdIWTBwuRs9BY027iGcvemn1OcEs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=tS4GI/58U1woodk0zoW9katFMEJG9mujgoz5ZSz2peJiqBk6z6y9eOKCM4yCc6zZfG DmROB53X1FIXtdR8CFQLGf+KmlXS53/031G832rOF4IOOtlR1vpuT3DxOW3C/CA0PxZu XQZkw12stQfUIjgpXQwuyU3ImlYBlGLaY+uB8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.168.5 with SMTP id v5mr2084430muo.77.1241247696360; Sat, 02 May 2009 00:01:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7a7e682b0905011044s2449334eu9b3ebb3c54747c2e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 10:01:36 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905020001s4fdca6e3qdabc4ab9ae8fbbe0@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Task list in Gnome Shell - mockup From: Anton Kerezov To: Igor Vatavuk Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016369896eb0513930468e8804f Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 07:01:56 -0000 --0016369896eb0513930468e8804f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 10:07 PM, Igor Vatavuk wrote: > > I understand your point but I was trying to eliminate anything other than > top panel to save the screen space. > Shelf takes a lot of screen space unless it's hidden... but then minimized > windows or windows requesting attention can't be seen until the shelf is > shown either on hover or on click/keyboard shortcut. > If Gnome Shell is going to lose the bottom panel, which is the plan I > think, there's only a number of ways to go about it and not waste even more > space than a panel would waste. OK. Then the only solution to one panel approach is this list with hover opening or a auto-hide shelf (which is not a good thing because it looks too much like mac). So keep up your work and when you have something to be tested be sure to share it with us ;) Anton --0016369896eb0513930468e8804f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 10:07 PM, Igor Va= tavuk <jaybee44= 4@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0
I un= derstand your point but I was trying to eliminate anything other than top p= anel to save the screen space.
Shelf takes a lot of screen space unless = it's hidden... but then minimized windows or windows requesting attenti= on can't be seen until the shelf is shown either on hover or on click/k= eyboard shortcut.
If Gnome Shell is going to lose the bottom panel, which is the plan I think= , there's only a number of ways to go about it and not waste even more = space than a panel would waste.

OK. Then the only solu= tion to one panel approach is this list with hover opening or a auto-hide s= helf (which is not a good thing because it looks too much like mac). So kee= p up your work and when you have something to be tested be sure to share it= with us ;)


Anton
--0016369896eb0513930468e8804f-- From jhs@jsschmid.de Sat May 2 07:20:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BABD4750078 for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 07:20:39 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) (up: 4921 hrs), (distance 21, link: ethernet/modem), [85.214.61.233] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6Q6lFYU8FudI for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 07:20:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from jsschmid.de (jsschmid.de [85.214.61.233]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B67B1750063 for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 07:20:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [192.168.178.30] (dslb-088-065-122-154.pools.arcor-ip.net [88.65.122.154]) by jsschmid.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3340221A81B0; Sat, 2 May 2009 07:20:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Task list in Gnome Shell - mockup From: Johannes Schmid To: Jay Bee In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-4iP3Xny54q46nhlNBiKJ" Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 09:20:02 +0200 Message-Id: <1241248802.5725.8.camel@idefix> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.24.3 Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 07:20:40 -0000 --=-4iP3Xny54q46nhlNBiKJ Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! > The mockup is located here: > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/TaskListDropDown >=20 I must admit that I like this much more: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/BreadcrumbsEtc Johannes --=-4iP3Xny54q46nhlNBiKJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkn79CIACgkQAvZZn2XJ+bMm2gCfaASXej3aobCnVTowVjwtHEtr 6DkAnjg1ucjpYbEaf/+aSKthrVJxEvBW =YPAW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-4iP3Xny54q46nhlNBiKJ-- From ankere@gmail.com Sat May 2 07:27:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C73D1750064 for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 07:27:46 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 11835 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jaRgQXfD140U for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 07:27:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FF0B750063 for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 07:27:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so2474851fxm.15 for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 00:27:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=xQ0R3EejfP2yQzaUXHD3q4kpJrctEpIaBcTNcSMO/Cc=; b=gHNC6KmhNl8fQVGqeWjfLzFpmv5Y06jejljqD/8FiopNI8qI0vu5xH2yWiplaxXKKj sForpWf0W+wZHytHcvciqLmp+Ta+g39LQWF4llB/xfzfgje23aWLkecIlXgT/6PBgDqB WDxHSVzNQsZXG0WFmlJvLqts8TcdKUYAvXScU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=LBDgeK1ay4AijqXCk9uyJC0wzhina7HD0MUCSgCZD3tZ3C/GLUbioXgzEVPhf5VfUM Hr7huJ+89BF6+S0INO5dKPJxeONsVIfgugTGaaviqJ4aKcrv1pqmgoqZR0aD4Q/o+mTO 6HxmPffavc14FzDQlZMhfM++H/74/NsMDqjNI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.102.228.10 with SMTP id a10mr2092530muh.26.1241249248270; Sat, 02 May 2009 00:27:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1241248802.5725.8.camel@idefix> References: <1241248802.5725.8.camel@idefix> Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 10:27:28 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905020027j152529ffvf8eb7c21572a3bdd@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Task list in Gnome Shell - mockup From: Anton Kerezov To: Johannes Schmid Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016363ba6ac855c010468e8dcb2 Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 07:27:47 -0000 --0016363ba6ac855c010468e8dcb2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just an idea for tasklist (ignore the girls ;) : http://lassekongo83.deviantart.com/art/SOGNO09-Frak-n-Frell-concept-121150004 Anton --0016363ba6ac855c010468e8dcb2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just an idea for tasklist (ignore the girls ;) :
http://lassekongo83.deviantart.com/art/SOGNO09-Frak-n-Frell-concept-121150004


Anton
--0016363ba6ac855c010468e8dcb2-- From maxx@krakoa.dk Sat May 2 07:52:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E364E750064 for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 07:52:30 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_Unix=-1] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: FreeBSD 6.x (1) (up: 11023 hrs), (distance 25, link: ethernet/modem), [212.242.43.251] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nmzhWnxWqHXG for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 07:52:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp1.cybercity.dk (smtp1.cybercity.dk [212.242.43.251]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2323750063 for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 07:52:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from user3.cybercity.dk (user3.cybercity.dk [212.242.41.36]) by smtp1.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2D50587FC1 for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 09:52:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.198] (0x4dd4b802.adsl.cybercity.dk [77.212.184.2]) by user3.cybercity.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97C93255332 for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 09:52:11 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Gnome Shell display white screen and blurred windows From: Mads Villadsen To: gnome-shell-list In-Reply-To: <1241220969.26222.80.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <8c46c4be0904150624n1f6ce780g93d94992fd68b93e@mail.gmail.com> <1239909852.3653.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241213183.3844.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241220969.26222.80.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 09:52:11 +0200 Message-Id: <1241250731.3735.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 (2.26.1-2.fc11) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 07:52:31 -0000 On Fri, 2009-05-01 at 19:36 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > I don't think the two problems are at all related; your report sounds > like a mesa bug: > > http://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=496515 > > Try the referenced package from koji.fedoraproject.org. (It, or > something newer, should land in F11 soon.) That fixed my problem. Thank you very much for the help. -- Mads Villadsen From brian@polibyte.com Sat May 2 19:41:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8BF37500CC for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 19:41:48 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.06 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.06 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_BG=0.077, TW_BX=0.077, TW_GD=0.077, TW_GJ=0.077, TW_GL=0.077, TW_IB=0.077, TW_XC=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) (ECN), (distance 9, link: ethernet/modem), [207.210.105.70] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gE42OqeTOK6t for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 19:41:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from juliet.asmallorange.com (juliet.asmallorange.com [207.210.105.70]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DF747500BD for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 19:41:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [75.137.190.59] (port=32978 helo=[192.168.1.3]) by juliet.asmallorange.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1M0L5b-0008PS-J8 for gnome-shell-list@gnome.org; Sat, 02 May 2009 15:41:35 -0400 Message-ID: <49FCA1EA.4060707@polibyte.com> Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 15:41:30 -0400 From: Brian Pitts User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090409) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Subject: xscrnsaver build error on Ubuntu 9.04 X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - juliet.asmallorange.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - polibyte.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 02 May 2009 22:22:42 +0000 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 19:41:49 -0000 I built gnome shell successfully a few weeks ago, but my attempt at updating today failed. I tried installing libxcb-screensaver0-dev but this didn't help. The error message is below: checking for MUTTER_PLUGIN... configure: error: Package requirements (gtk+-2.0 dbus-glib-1 metacity-plugins gjs-gi-1.0 xscrnsaver libgnome-menu gconf-2.0 gdk-x11-2.0 clutter-x11-0.9 clutter-glx-0.9) were not met: No package 'xscrnsaver' found Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you installed software in a non-standard prefix. Alternatively, you may set the environment variables MUTTER_PLUGIN_CFLAGS and MUTTER_PLUGIN_LIBS to avoid the need to call pkg-config. See the pkg-config man page for more details. make: *** [config.status] Error 1 All the best, Brian Pitts From sander.dijkhuis@gmail.com Sat May 2 22:32:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1931175009F for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 22:32:35 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.291 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.291 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_BX=0.077, TW_IB=0.077, TW_XC=0.077, TW_XS=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 3484 hrs), (distance 16, link: (Google 2)), [72.14.220.152] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yNtNWDbpamwh for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 22:32:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.152]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E392E750069 for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 22:32:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so319619fgb.10 for ; Sat, 02 May 2009 15:32:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=NTlbhdR1zPA3jwGBBmiEUtpic1Ca9VVADqhCUwW+NOE=; b=axlGJ5nKwKMWUpPeJ5O4r3q/LSIJ3yOxmYNAzItgkhFC4r1irOCYq0y7oF5lkApfdc HfIisOaYHg/bmzH43BcVdE+3N+81iyfNHvZ9toP9nP9CxizXfsjhlNznIaflMIFxZfcQ PCac/bEGqfEXxzMQiv7yea/jz4Ov0hHVGyyaA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=maiZvwJCZ4Mbo1gvPkZUeeByygMl1bNd41g5Oxzlk5lWhgn3HhfBtg+4hlW8g4FazR PUcgkrk9+EfKOmFCX6jeab6FunOkVb+JhhoQZj9DTPUUxJX4+R49mEltU8KdgA6j+r3G Ysa/9j+vNxcEYLtaGdYfQbSjogrgtH34jYjmI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.59.2 with SMTP id h2mr4228970fga.30.1241303537109; Sat, 02 May 2009 15:32:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <49FCA1EA.4060707@polibyte.com> References: <49FCA1EA.4060707@polibyte.com> From: Sander Dijkhuis Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 00:31:57 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: xscrnsaver build error on Ubuntu 9.04 To: Brian Pitts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 22:32:35 -0000 On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Brian Pitts wrote: > I built gnome shell successfully a few weeks ago, but my attempt at > updating today failed. I tried installing libxcb-screensaver0-dev but > this didn't help. The error message is below: > > [...] > > No package 'xscrnsaver' found Assuming you run Ubuntu, you need to install libxss-dev. On Fedora and SUSE this is libXScrnSaver-devel, on Mandriva it's libxscnsaver-devel. Unfortunately, suggestions for packages to install are currently only given automatically when you run the gnome-shell-build-setup.sh script. From otaylor@redhat.com Sat May 2 22:34:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2992675009F for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 22:34:41 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.473 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.473 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=1.510, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, TW_BG=0.077, TW_BX=0.077, TW_GD=0.077, TW_GJ=0.077, TW_GL=0.077, TW_IB=0.077, TW_XC=0.077, TW_XS=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) (NAT!) (up: 6709 hrs), (distance 14, link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [66.187.237.31] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i9e5jBlEKUQQ for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 22:34:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx2.redhat.com (mx2.redhat.com [66.187.237.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89BB3750077 for ; Sat, 2 May 2009 22:34:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (int-mx2.corp.redhat.com [172.16.27.26]) by mx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n42MYPAJ019755; Sat, 2 May 2009 18:34:25 -0400 Received: from ns3.rdu.redhat.com (ns3.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.255.199]) by int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n42MYPkh003351; Sat, 2 May 2009 18:34:25 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sebastian-int.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.221]) by ns3.rdu.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n42MYOUp025550; Sat, 2 May 2009 18:34:24 -0400 Subject: Re: xscrnsaver build error on Ubuntu 9.04 From: Owen Taylor To: Brian Pitts In-Reply-To: <49FCA1EA.4060707@polibyte.com> References: <49FCA1EA.4060707@polibyte.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 18:34:23 -0400 Message-Id: <1241303663.26222.102.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 172.16.27.26 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 22:34:41 -0000 On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 15:41 -0400, Brian Pitts wrote: > I built gnome shell successfully a few weeks ago, but my attempt at > updating today failed. I tried installing libxcb-screensaver0-dev but > this didn't help. The error message is below: > > checking for MUTTER_PLUGIN... configure: error: Package requirements > (gtk+-2.0 dbus-glib-1 metacity-plugins gjs-gi-1.0 xscrnsaver > libgnome-menu gconf-2.0 gdk-x11-2.0 clutter-x11-0.9 clutter-glx-0.9) > were not met: > > No package 'xscrnsaver' found > > Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you > installed software in a non-standard prefix. > > Alternatively, you may set the environment variables MUTTER_PLUGIN_CFLAGS > and MUTTER_PLUGIN_LIBS to avoid the need to call pkg-config. > See the pkg-config man page for more details. > > make: *** [config.status] Error 1 The relevant package is libxss-dev. In general, if you hit build problems that look like missing dependencies, you should rerun gnome-shell-build-setup.sh. You can either do that as described on the wiki for the initial run, or you can find the script in: ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/tools/build/ and run it from there. (Do a 'jhbuild updateone gnome-shell' first to make sure that you have the latest version with any updates.) - Owen From brianfleeger@yahoo.com Sun May 3 05:31:26 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 322D2750077 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 05:31:26 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.521 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, L_P0F_Unix=-1, TW_JK=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: FreeBSD 6.x (1) (up: 774 hrs), (distance 10, link: ethernet/modem), [68.142.207.197] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tb+OdWRdGu-z for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 05:31:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web32404.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32404.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.197]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B03B275006B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 05:31:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: (qmail 60003 invoked by uid 60001); 3 May 2009 05:31:07 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1241328666; bh=NUPPVHNFLrUTvRNDrKW18LlVp+kCCq0HRJDR8z9sa3U=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=fcEAorPugGjXwbq0v2EDIcJh1tucHVrW7A6bdxsYxOoRet0CHO0OkxR8xsiwe0Dy00YhAhzNRrBmb2JegedERxt5TerwPzfomSPCB2aMMPpbENa6pEmloFW1oeq4PnZpzJVFtjNthOhwzrpIo7G8WUseWvHlUDR70qPOjGSdAA8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ZEN71sJPTfmDT7LtxlTCWsrz0KvE4F+XcUL5siHy9PzSFmowMERGKVl51zUgwbOBsc4bocHcBu63yHv1fqmYSlIUXIB2JZ0vlElZiLm8UVklzTXh0K1ZuD9rb8vCndqK21LyC+FieK2PjZw6CcghQasP4l/pbU/K1cAtkAkSC3E=; Message-ID: <959043.52227.qm@web32404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: j6KilewVM1kOpAr_de0kquhEy.JhmrERn5DrfoYlVjFdYI5z69XixXPnTC6jOrLcme7AN3mY9f3wzTGW17XybGrPT5ZTKyBbEIf9EDq9k9nNyUn.LFq3Pif6GLVVNgw2vN9n7F_0rXRS72c49iVRgKUmtCzrMPd497DbKe1r7zk68wQkLkHbX2kt1LIM2amShfnUcWcbwcZxjdqbfs4SG1grcFOc1Wc72keF3VHvEQBt_uHnNA9xUYqTOGDwqwjLEI7fw.zkkZBnTQMrqWAXfErUk2m0P2B5NfN.SSIrGSFrIrg3ZszR9TlTFcawa4PDsLyZotsLKw-- Received: from [68.100.141.193] by web32404.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 02 May 2009 22:31:06 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 References: <7a7e682b0905011044s2449334eu9b3ebb3c54747c2e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 22:31:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Fleeger Subject: Re: Task list in Gnome Shell - mockup To: Igor Vatavuk , Gnome List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-194867835-1241328666=:52227" X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 05:31:26 -0000 --0-194867835-1241328666=:52227 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Igor Vatavuk On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 7:24 PM, Sander Dijkhuis wrote: >>Opening the menu on mouse hover might be irritating when you want to >>reach something near the panel (like a window's title bar) and >>accidentally move the cursor to the window list button. I think a >>widget like the drop-down box in GTK+ would work well. >I was aiming at 1 click switch so that's why I choose hover >instead of click, however, I can see how this could cause problems. What about a click + hold action? With the mouse depressed, the user could scan through the items and release the button to select. click+hold and release would go very well with a touch-screen setup too. I have been thinking a lot about these two ideas (breadcrumb + dropdown list), and worked up a couple of pictures. In this modification to Breadcrumbs, click + hold would activate the list (a normal single click would open and close it quickly, so the behavior should be easily discoverable). As the depressed mouse scans through the list, each time it hovers over a different title, a Mutter special effect similar to the Compiz Alt + Tab effect would bring that window in front of all the others, and darken the rest of the screen, similar to Win7's Aero-peek feature. See: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3550/3495515137_47b1d16603_o.png In a second picture I try to work out way of scanning through workspaces more conveniently than a list layout. A big problem is that the list is linear, but the workspaces are on a grid. Even if workspaces had visible auto-generated numerical names, due to the unique pattern in which spaces are added, it would look really funky (not at all like a normal grid). One solution would be to have a kind of actual drop-down grid (it may or may not show thumbnails of the workspaces) that comes down when you click the workspaces button. As with the idea above, as you mouse over each square in the grid, the screen itself could react by cycling through the worspaces, like Ctrl+Alt+arrows does now. See: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3342/3495515159_c494f133fb_o.png The biggest problem I see with this layout is that a drop-down grid is not consistent with the regular list used for windows. But for now it is the only way I can think of to avoid the awkwardness of a textual list for workspaces. Regards, Brian --0-194867835-1241328666=:52227 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
From: Igor Vatavuk <jaybee444@gmail.com>
On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 7:24 PM, Sander Dijkhuis <sander.dijkhuis@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>Opening the menu on mouse hover might be irritating when you want to
>>reach something near the panel (like a window's title bar) and
>>accidentally move the cursor to the window list button. I think a
>>widget like the drop-down box in GTK+ would work well.
>I was aiming at 1 click switch so that's why I choose hover
>instead of click, however, I can see how this could cause problems.

What about a click + hold action?  With the mouse depressed, the user could scan through the items and release the button to select.  click+hold and release would go very well with a touch-screen setup too.

I have been thinking a lot about these two ideas (breadcrumb + dropdown list), and worked up a couple of pictures.  In this modification to Breadcrumbs, click + hold would activate the list (a normal single click would open and close it quickly, so the behavior should be easily discoverable).  As the depressed mouse scans through the list, each time it hovers over a different title, a Mutter special effect similar to the Compiz Alt + Tab effect would bring that window in front of all the others, and darken the rest of the screen, similar to Win7's Aero-peek feature.
See: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3550/3495515137_47b1d16603_o.png

In a second picture I try to work out way of scanning through workspaces more conveniently than a list layout.  A big problem is that the list is linear, but the workspaces are on a grid.  Even if workspaces had visible auto-generated numerical names, due to the unique pattern in which spaces are added, it would look really funky (not at all like a normal grid).  One solution would be to have a kind of actual drop-down grid (it may or may not show thumbnails of the workspaces) that comes down when you click the workspaces button.  As with the idea above, as you mouse over each square in the grid, the screen itself could react by cycling through the worspaces, like Ctrl+Alt+arrows does now.
See: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3342/3495515159_c494f133fb_o.png

The biggest problem I see with this layout is that a drop-down grid is not consistent with the regular list used for windows.  But for now it is the only way I can think of to avoid the awkwardness of a textual list for workspaces.

Regards,
Brian

--0-194867835-1241328666=:52227-- From brianfleeger@yahoo.com Sun May 3 05:47:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3942575006C for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 05:47:44 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, L_P0F_Unix=-1] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: FreeBSD 6.x (1) (up: 1380 hrs), (distance 17, link: ethernet/modem), [68.142.207.198] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qxHqEPTdcU6J for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 05:47:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ECF1E750072 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 05:47:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: (qmail 80114 invoked by uid 60001); 3 May 2009 05:47:24 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1241329644; bh=LoVz/gxlTOEhTx8TWZ9bPpj0hGpjy1W9SViiUcGJUnw=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=a3UV1/4HSYCR5lMIn4JLiircgX0ZRFcy6k4UXO8x3HA3axLUFSIwOp8F5tvWUrkCteDtCywSRx6iFzxdWMtA5TPRqfAYfuMeUgWe7feN4r9fR+voaYD5+pgFwL2J1uNOs8uJ/gsjlFxakdV1e+dYvofs6nB9X1UEKiX5zs4BCBQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=HP60e0UYDsIH04RfNEsjD/EB8rkAEHLYdkUXu3QMqn/GXmZcAo4b8PORRJa2bboJbOJfvGDVOdqkzkhD6aDWsAN3YChBtCLMTsBGplreb7yZUMyy4g18OZ9vrmtvG3mXJWMh/u3giQYlyTlLKfGLqEQ8OEEGx2ow9rw17uvD6zQ=; Message-ID: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: cKf3B4gVM1kH0nq3NvNcXG2WA8ujBUAA1KUmTqlZRoOsWoQQg3L9_FA0VDOgQxVzDXB7Gxc5SmZzaARWOz5Zl8sUxxHjiia4Ji8vTee3hfoCc_GHeL8ryKWfa8NvfWIL4ulgtqembspW4OpYqVkPJSt1iWnY94ehn7Cwx6D_BF1sGg_k91Ce5zu0yNKKbrzhiAfHvXXcro2YmWsJQoowRdRR0pBTxtMMW9Qa0I0NRgJmJaq5UMlZ4k2iWGR50J1zfQgkoMs5C9GKjLuPB4igoVA5asR2qsG65pnmvEaopRoUSr715ReSgkeNMmQ4kOhIxln1wNpm8fueodS3gRpYwxVX Received: from [68.100.141.193] by web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 02 May 2009 22:47:23 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.35 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 22:47:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Fleeger Subject: Subtracting workspaces To: Gnome List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1447995702-1241329643=:77289" X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 05:47:44 -0000 --0-1447995702-1241329643=:77289 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all,=0A=0AEver since I first got the gnome-shell running, I have noticed= that getting rid of empty workspaces along =0Athe periphery feels very mou= se-intensive as I jump from workspace to workspace =0Aclosing them. This i= s especially the case since users have to =0Aclick the Minus-sign in a part= icular order, and it appears to be a difficult =0Amotor pattern for my hand= s to adapt (maybe it's just me though=E2=80=A6). It doesn't help that addi= ng spaces looks so pretty that I just keep adding more than I really need, = and then have to close a bunch.=0A=0A =0AGoogle Chrome addressed the proble= m that closing tabs made the "x's" on other tabs into moving targets by mak= ing it so the close buttons remained stationary until a user's mouse moved = away from the tab zone. Could gnome-shell incorporate some similar conveni= ence? =0A=0A=0AOne way would be to =0Ainclude a minus-sign nearby to the pl= us sign in the corner. =0A=0ASee: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3606/3496= 416276_2149de9687_o.png=0A=0AMaybe the minus part could be faded out if no = =0Awindows were available for "subtracting." Maybe the plus/minus combo = =0Acould be in addition to the current minus sign that appears over new =0A= workspaces, or maybe the in-workspace minus sign would only appear if a use= r's mouse was inside the workspace zone? Anyway, this is just one idea for= keeping people's =0Amouse hands from becoming too tired.=0A I don't know i= f anyone else finds this distracting, much less if it qualifies as a "bug" = worth filing. Does anyone else get tired? =0A =0ARegards,=0ABrian =0A=0A= =0A --0-1447995702-1241329643=:77289 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,


Ever since I first got the gnome-s= hell running, I have noticed that getting rid of empty workspaces along =0A= the periphery feels very mouse-intensive as I jump from workspace to worksp= ace =0Aclosing them.  This is especially the case since u= sers have to =0Aclick the Minus-sign in a particular order, and it appears = to be a difficult =0Amotor pattern for my hands to adapt (maybe it's just m= e though=E2=80=A6).  It doesn't help that adding spaces looks so prett= y that I just keep adding more than I really need, and then have to close a= bunch.

=0A

&nb= sp;

Google Chrome = addressed the problem that closing tabs made the "x's" on other tabs into m= oving targets by making it so the close buttons remained stationary until a= user's mouse moved away from the tab zone.  Could gnome-shell incorpo= rate some similar convenience?


=0A

One way would be to =0Ainclude a minus-sign nearby to the plus sign= in the corner. 

See: http://farm4.static.fli= ckr.com/3606/3496416276_2149de9687_o.png


Maybe the minus part could b= e faded out if no =0Awindows were available for "subtracting."  = Maybe the plus/minus combo =0Acould be in addition to the current mi= nus sign that appears over new =0Aworkspaces, or maybe the in-workspace min= us sign would only appear if a user's mouse was inside the workspace zone?<= span>  Anyway, this is just one idea for keeping people's =0Amo= use hands from becoming too tired.

=0A

 

I don't know if anyone else finds this distra= cting, much less if it qualifies as a "bug" worth filing.  Does anyone= else get tired? =0A =0A

 

=0A

Regards,

=0A

Brian


=0A=0A=0A=0A = --0-1447995702-1241329643=:77289-- From ankere@gmail.com Sun May 3 07:20:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9E1B75006B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 07:20:48 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 143 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id keK1yOjJXe5m for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 07:20:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09E2975006C for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 07:20:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so2816040fxm.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 00:20:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=GMQPxHRruKKFGepS5K7B3ldsGgImka29zsqLXSp1OdM=; b=slbCsZFrRYSStfn1X9XJthpFAGJkkWCb2GC04Fd9tARG4JJKr7aXgEnlkd+uhvesXo SPK9eZXgWuQIguR4tXLHNXISVx+dJZ4nguGhV7KUuzkWc9ETTXhHWHPNx1DXrIfpVC6E SmF7gc5422CILoji99MW4zsF6+KuJbhMhNDrw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=WhBuIyYYMoUQQDDqZUk8kjlTTlcrRnkOx8FIz7eNcYOvoeXqn1mQEynzImTztIQqKZ zD5Jo77zdjk4WEun9uq+K9KQ/PP6G7uB6AXxrCqwv+GWX6DJ9FO+h9xSHrBdJPVqmQ0m 3JVmeB+xlpi8gcEDYshG2Rfg+zyGVkI3zwbqM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.214.13 with SMTP id r13mr2701721muq.37.1241335227388; Sun, 03 May 2009 00:20:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <959043.52227.qm@web32404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <7a7e682b0905011044s2449334eu9b3ebb3c54747c2e@mail.gmail.com> <959043.52227.qm@web32404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 10:20:27 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905030020r485606a4vde93b160a4094f8e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Task list in Gnome Shell - mockup From: Anton Kerezov To: Brian Fleeger Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636a7d9124693510468fce1be Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 07:20:49 -0000 --001636a7d9124693510468fce1be Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Brian Fleeger wrote: > The biggest problem I see with this layout is that a drop-down grid is not > consistent with the regular list used for windows. But for now it is the > only way I can think of to avoid the awkwardness of a textual list for > workspaces. > Well we could use similar thumbs for the windows too. But this click and hold would be rather confusing to the user because he will think that the list is buggy and won't open by click. Aother issue that bothers me in this method (the list) is that people don't know where their minimized windows go and will feel lost. Anton --001636a7d9124693510468fce1be Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Brian Fl= eeger <brian= fleeger@yahoo.com> wrote:
The biggest problem I see with this layout is that a drop-down grid is not = consistent with the regular list used for windows.=A0 But for now it is the= only way I can think of to avoid the awkwardness of a textual list for workspaces.

Well we could use= similar thumbs for the windows too. But this click and hold would be rathe= r confusing to the user because he will think that the list is buggy and wo= n't open by click. Aother issue that bothers me in this method (the lis= t) is that people don't know where their minimized windows go and will = feel lost.


Anton
--001636a7d9124693510468fce1be-- From ankere@gmail.com Sun May 3 07:30:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9857A750072 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 07:30:09 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3516 hrs), (distance 17, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.159] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EtSd71JA4qqB for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 07:30:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f159.google.com (mail-bw0-f159.google.com [209.85.218.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C57475006B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 07:29:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so2800926bwz.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 00:29:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=leQRHp39pmcllBQijnK0mRJEnh8FzTnVCc/5Q50FeT8=; b=j3JxZmkDWFgA/HNAua6V7fMdZt0Izqg564RY6ur1Y6JXePPFm6ngUiTTh2P5CN2U0m iOIIiLSoUpeaf+LZslLd1vJ3XxGp/um9Bp62zZ4r07tcYowPluFuQRoRfNXiJeifIzU2 G3IBiNA826YXIzWuXDAjOLnLGMg5Lp2/ucxmk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=cRcnLWSOdUxE1yB9CgJJ541bvlIZU+ncyIGuVUZEmVI3P1E2dou/nsHgzjsVaKUV+X sNZpXSaoIctWIZDt5fa2hlkuWtVQuqvGu+2iEnzAcRPPo+a79NcOExIf5aP/AMoiCTkc Hf/KnjHfsNdsp2Us1ZPO8kEinTXTjfWbVkfi8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.225.11 with SMTP id c11mr2702043mur.24.1241335789029; Sun, 03 May 2009 00:29:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 10:29:48 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905030029g34c7ca86meb35a6ecc317798f@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Subtracting workspaces From: Anton Kerezov To: Brian Fleeger Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636b2ae6bc08cfc0468fd02b8 Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 07:30:09 -0000 --001636b2ae6bc08cfc0468fd02b8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Brian Fleeger wrote: > One way would be to include a minus-sign nearby to the plus sign in the > corner. > > See: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3606/3496416276_2149de9687_o.png > > > I don't know if anyone else finds this distracting, much less if it > qualifies as a "bug" worth filing. Does anyone else get tired? > I feel tired too. The logic of adding workspaces is too unpredictable though looking good. As far as the minus sign it could just be another circle with minus in it but given that method there should be visual indication what will be removed (glow or smth). Thought I think that this minus should not stop the user remove exact workspaces with separate minus on them, appearing on mouse over. Anton --001636b2ae6bc08cfc0468fd02b8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Brian Fl= eeger <brian= fleeger@yahoo.com> wrote:

One way would be to=20 include a minus-sign nearby to the plus sign in the corner.=A0

See: ht= tp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3606/3496416276_2149de9687_o.png

=A0

=

I don't know if anyone else finds this distracting, much less if it= qualifies as a "bug" worth filing.=A0 Does anyone else get tired= ?=20 =A0

I feel tired too. The logic of adding workspaces is too unpredictable = though looking good.

As far as the minus sign it could just be anot= her circle with minus in it but given that method there should be visual in= dication what will be removed (glow or smth). Thought I think that this min= us should not stop the user remove exact workspaces with separate minus on = them, appearing on mouse over.


Anton
--001636b2ae6bc08cfc0468fd02b8-- From nalimilan@club.fr Sun May 3 08:55:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DB0C75006B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 08:55:34 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.722 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.722 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8, TW_JK=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:43:1:60:M1380, S, T, N, W8:.:?:?] (NAT!) (up: 5995 hrs), (link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [93.17.128.10] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W5CC-tUGIou5 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 08:55:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp22.services.sfr.fr (smtp22.services.sfr.fr [93.17.128.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F73775006C for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 08:55:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from filter.sfr.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by msfrf2219.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 181C77000097; Sun, 3 May 2009 10:55:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (11.78.92-79.rev.gaoland.net [79.92.78.11]) by msfrf2219.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id B2D29700008D; Sun, 3 May 2009 10:55:12 +0200 (CEST) X-SFR-UUID: 20090503085512732.B2D29700008D@msfrf2219.sfr.fr Subject: Re: Task list in Gnome Shell - mockup From: Milan Bouchet-Valat To: Brian Fleeger In-Reply-To: <959043.52227.qm@web32404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <7a7e682b0905011044s2449334eu9b3ebb3c54747c2e@mail.gmail.com> <959043.52227.qm@web32404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 10:55:08 +0200 Message-Id: <1241340909.28232.10.camel@milan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 08:55:34 -0000 Le samedi 02 mai 2009 à 22:31 -0700, Brian Fleeger a écrit : > From: Igor Vatavuk > On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 7:24 PM, Sander Dijkhuis > wrote: > >>Opening the menu on mouse hover might be irritating when you > want to > >>reach something near the panel (like a window's title bar) > and > >>accidentally move the cursor to the window list button. I > think a > >>widget like the drop-down box in GTK+ would work well. > >I was aiming at 1 click switch so that's why I choose hover > >instead of click, however, I can see how this could cause problems. > > What about a click + hold action? With the mouse depressed, the user > could scan through the items and release the button to select. click > +hold and release would go very well with a touch-screen setup too. That's actually how GTK+ menus work currently: click and hold, release on the item you want; or just click and release, and click again on the item you want. That's quite good, but IMHO we may need a quicker solution to switch windows, where you don't need to go through a whole menu. > I have been thinking a lot about these two ideas (breadcrumb + > dropdown list), and worked up a couple of pictures. In this > modification to Breadcrumbs, click + hold would activate the list (a > normal single click would open and close it quickly, so the behavior > should be easily discoverable). As the depressed mouse scans through > the list, each time it hovers over a different title, a Mutter special > effect similar to the Compiz Alt + Tab effect would bring that window > in front of all the others, and darken the rest of the screen, similar > to Win7's Aero-peek feature. > See: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3550/3495515137_47b1d16603_o.png > > In a second picture I try to work out way of scanning through > workspaces more conveniently than a list layout. A big problem is > that the list is linear, but the workspaces are on a grid. Even if > workspaces had visible auto-generated numerical names, due to the > unique pattern in which spaces are added, it would look really funky > (not at all like a normal grid). Workspaces should not be identified by their index, but by their activity name. This way, you can get a readable list, and you can order them regardless of them being in a numeric disorder (from left to right and top to bottom). If two workspaces are for the same activity, just say "My Activity 1", "My Activity 2". > One solution would be to have a kind of actual drop-down grid (it may > or may not show thumbnails of the workspaces) that comes down when you > click the workspaces button. As with the idea above, as you mouse > over each square in the grid, the screen itself could react by cycling > through the worspaces, like Ctrl+Alt+arrows does now. > See: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3342/3495515159_c494f133fb_o.png > > The biggest problem I see with this layout is that a drop-down grid is > not consistent with the regular list used for windows. But for now it > is the only way I can think of to avoid the awkwardness of a textual > list for workspaces. Though you may still prefer that solution, indeed. But you need to show the name of the activity of the workspaces in the thumbnails. Very interesting ideas! At least for switching workspaces, it will be efficient enough. For the windows, I'm still looking for a complementary way... From artirj@gmail.com Sun May 3 09:25:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30EFD75006B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 09:25:41 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 164 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id klIEpPwuy3Ru for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 09:25:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103D775006C for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 09:25:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so2847590fxm.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 02:25:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=9bjrA20+HNOU2MAeWasa1e2sKL/uqKlolgwq+pHt4LI=; b=RfVXES+vc4fqYXueMopPQHx/aS2iUuYGXYoNKSernrFJbazlpsnKONXpWzq9o9MUUZ XuBOF6FhX3SZ3I6C6YcJjXb+abEvEyHkNNu5BBPDD4CV8/9oh5KGxDhXFrVCNVyAokvc jM4CfR9RQGXHxTi6PgYYcXIMc1bPzpTS9dlLA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=FaEIRaNrhEo7USbQZttGoC4ttRk3Qlozk93f4IN4AyP9k5p8WLNecdg5viu1WT5M2+ 83J65JEPOBulTMInJw0qtweMQIoyzVEW6fM/1g5ConTIQKSf9fBgI/bxW3CBRw3LhcdH rbez7hoKkQVjx2zEPa31H4+Dtc9Xiycw5t17Q= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.60.72 with SMTP id o8mr4413293bkh.210.1241342720366; Sun, 03 May 2009 02:25:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7a7e682b0905030029g34c7ca86meb35a6ecc317798f@mail.gmail.com> References: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7a7e682b0905030029g34c7ca86meb35a6ecc317798f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 10:25:20 +0100 Message-ID: <753bbf8f0905030225h1fa25dbeleefc67c3a4c88dfb@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Subtracting workspaces From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Ric=F3n?= To: Gnome List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5abdbe4594f0468fe9f18 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 09:25:41 -0000 --001636c5abdbe4594f0468fe9f18 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A good thing would be to have the - and + icons as Brian said and when the minus icon is clicked, the latest added workspace should send all opened windows to the first empty workspace and if not, send them to the nearest, and then the workspace disappears, but not the applications inside it. 2009/5/3 Anton Kerezov > > > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Brian Fleeger wrote: > >> One way would be to include a minus-sign nearby to the plus sign in the >> corner. >> >> See: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3606/3496416276_2149de9687_o.png >> > > >> >> I don't know if anyone else finds this distracting, much less if it >> qualifies as a "bug" worth filing. Does anyone else get tired? >> > > I feel tired too. The logic of adding workspaces is too unpredictable > though looking good. > > As far as the minus sign it could just be another circle with minus in it > but given that method there should be visual indication what will be removed > (glow or smth). Thought I think that this minus should not stop the user > remove exact workspaces with separate minus on them, appearing on mouse > over. > > > Anton > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > > --001636c5abdbe4594f0468fe9f18 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A good thing would be to have the -=A0 and + icons as Brian said and when t= he minus icon is clicked, the latest added workspace should send all opened= windows to the first empty workspace and if not, send them to the nearest,= and then the workspace disappears, but not the applications inside it.

2009/5/3 Anton Kerezov <= ;ankere@gmail.com= >


On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Bri= an Fleeger <brianfleeger@yahoo.com> wrote:

One way would be to=20 include a minus-sign nearby to the plus sign in the corner.=A0

See: ht= tp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3606/3496416276_2149de9687_o.png

=A0
=

=

I don't know if anyone else finds this distracting, much less if it= qualifies as a "bug" worth filing.=A0 Does anyone else get tired= ?=20 =A0

I feel tired too. The logic of adding workspaces is too unpredictable = though looking good.

As far as the minus sign it could just be anot= her circle with minus in it but given that method there should be visual in= dication what will be removed (glow or smth). Thought I think that this min= us should not stop the user remove exact workspaces with separate minus on = them, appearing on mouse over.


Anton

_______________________________________________
gnome-shell-list mailing list
gnome-shell= -list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list


--001636c5abdbe4594f0468fe9f18-- From ankere@gmail.com Sun May 3 09:49:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1145750072 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 09:49:14 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 166 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D+kycwV24aET for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 09:49:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C4B75006B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 09:48:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so2854158fxm.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 02:48:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=CljfpMRMamq/qioOxhOLq9f41gvk1tiPfFMv1SdUD6w=; b=sHJNUtk1jihdzNStWAJtatJkzmPHx1od/WWie2409J9lEThxlTeLiX5oxjgo7zkCCZ rVByUfrboGVHYz94XZrgTYgSJufaoKmovrekM+BONO0jMZMXgEUxH9y2q9CZjipQwGAD 6cvrm4wae1ABLYuVD1DRsD8nlv+dNSp672plg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=qtmAUzgarOx08DeU2yoYN3Y9Bj9Q0vjfqAKlTb5V2EL/NSQQ1ONTctPYDL2oWKI4Ut RAvFxxHm47L9iRT4Zb1sPj0xB4Hb+aV1DCKuAgoFLFfYVqbCyQJ2HWdV3/gy/OSqpmhB /Gvad6JjNHTkY+MkoIMy6uI7uyD9PypRkGLIk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.243.9 with SMTP id v9mr2724670mur.91.1241344137703; Sun, 03 May 2009 02:48:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <753bbf8f0905030225h1fa25dbeleefc67c3a4c88dfb@mail.gmail.com> References: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7a7e682b0905030029g34c7ca86meb35a6ecc317798f@mail.gmail.com> <753bbf8f0905030225h1fa25dbeleefc67c3a4c88dfb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 12:48:57 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905030248m6c1fc340ncf26adfcb8a8c7b0@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Subtracting workspaces From: Anton Kerezov To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Ric=F3n?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016369205b15f30bc0468fef43e Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 09:49:14 -0000 --0016369205b15f30bc0468fef43e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2009/5/3 Jos=E9 Luis Ric=F3n > A good thing would be to have the - and + icons as Brian said and when t= he > minus icon is clicked, the latest added workspace should send all opened > windows to the first empty workspace and if not, send them to the nearest= , > and then the workspace disappears, but not the applications inside it. But if someone wants to close an activity (represented by workspace) and al= l programs associated with it? That behavior should be customizable and the best option chosen for default one. --=20 A.K. --0016369205b15f30bc0468fef43e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2009/5/3 Jos=E9 Luis Ric=F3n <artirj@gmail.com>
A good thing would be to have the -=A0 and + icons as Brian said and when t= he minus icon is clicked, the latest added workspace should send all opened= windows to the first empty workspace and if not, send them to the nearest,= and then the workspace disappears, but not the applications inside it.

But if someone wants to close an activity (represented by workspac= e) and all programs associated with it? That behavior should be customizabl= e and the best option chosen for default one.



--
A.K.
--0016369205b15f30bc0468fef43e-- From artirj@gmail.com Sun May 3 09:51:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2215975006B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 09:51:31 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 168 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IXbxLa-hnfnx for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 09:51:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B887500B5 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 09:51:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so2854760fxm.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 02:51:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=xZqSXWIxA4SPT6CmJFiCj1f1QPyssC16EQpaUWB31jI=; b=nuTEurjmFd+2UeMzgxycQyf+hiPASrz6015g1ihjEYUk90PnvSfUDKXT3I5bXNam5Y h53U0boIUTkGnNprixZaBJLWwaO0gCYslRGIANCZNb4tDDwKUpbOufqmx3Hz6xruomzj Al6LwSdLyYVBFbqSFfb90edhNGQ9YvnFOPvi0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Gk9WSWyqJFywc967S4qj0VLZ+e5uDzozApd8blhitSys5uwOqZ7nGyJNYZw4eCW7j2 eATME1atLZXZtPaYvfd3Bvi5o38mn7zmcnwN3yNAEQQMd8d1RbojyZd6sYGHEAuMA4Bx SWqGfKNqgEPArYlAvrogtGbZ0ix8lnLrGG/UA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.66.17 with SMTP id l17mr4494625bki.44.1241344274297; Sun, 03 May 2009 02:51:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7a7e682b0905030248m6c1fc340ncf26adfcb8a8c7b0@mail.gmail.com> References: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7a7e682b0905030029g34c7ca86meb35a6ecc317798f@mail.gmail.com> <753bbf8f0905030225h1fa25dbeleefc67c3a4c88dfb@mail.gmail.com> <7a7e682b0905030248m6c1fc340ncf26adfcb8a8c7b0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 10:51:14 +0100 Message-ID: <753bbf8f0905030251g1ab7d39dve7111e25849c4faa@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Subtracting workspaces From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Ric=F3n?= To: Gnome List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5bbd18373fe0468fefc25 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 09:51:31 -0000 --001636c5bbd18373fe0468fefc25 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agree El 3 de mayo de 2009 10:48, Anton Kerezov escribi=F3: > > > 2009/5/3 Jos=E9 Luis Ric=F3n > >> A good thing would be to have the - and + icons as Brian said and when >> the minus icon is clicked, the latest added workspace should send all op= ened >> windows to the first empty workspace and if not, send them to the neares= t, >> and then the workspace disappears, but not the applications inside it. > > > But if someone wants to close an activity (represented by workspace) and > all programs associated with it? That behavior should be customizable and > the best option chosen for default one. > > > > -- > A.K. > --001636c5bbd18373fe0468fefc25 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Agree

El 3 de mayo de 2009 10:48, Ant= on Kerezov <ankere= @gmail.com> escribi=F3:


2009/5/3 Jos=E9 Luis Ric=F3n <artirj@g= mail.com>
A good thing would be to have the -=A0 and + icons as Brian said and when t= he minus icon is clicked, the latest added workspace should send all opened= windows to the first empty workspace and if not, send them to the nearest,= and then the workspace disappears, but not the applications inside it.

But if someone wants to close an activity (represented by workspac= e) and all programs associated with it? That behavior should be customizabl= e and the best option chosen for default one.



--
A.K.

--001636c5bbd18373fe0468fefc25-- From siggi.gevatter@gmail.com Sun May 3 11:25:13 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACCDB7500C8 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 11:25:13 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:51:1:60:M1460,S,T,N,W9:.:?:?] (up: 1851 hrs), (link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.217.212] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u9ex3OjKX0mM for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 11:25:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-gx0-f212.google.com (mail-gx0-f212.google.com [209.85.217.212]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8521975006B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 11:24:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: by gxk8 with SMTP id 8so5831903gxk.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 04:24:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=1XddlNmsJjgTpOlxmbCSVH+37JjPi90P2tIEOaoHnrs=; b=cB0ZWCGhKKpmI4SuRJilzEd5X3/TBZqZ49yKe5niCnPrzN91dNALPr2s8bc9d6XEgj qHy8F3/VJ7Ilp/IvfloVSY9pUhCqtiixEx+4PyA1g32Qw1TCARKIuK7bU0uClQLKP9zT gtBC1ghniG18GhU8yegs8DaEFdo3MAHs4wN2A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=X9o9fMzP7Yvofo0qJ1QdKPjjlRRi4MaZ/s6Z4hQYG0eSqMtqHjR6CRfCX9TDZG6YkH 1O6toet+M4rjmDTXd4NJnnJGy64bZTs3TYMfKRdK+GXTYSdAHNZf6YVRkb1MM/e8BpKg 3X+m/XLz9v69mWgJrMo4hOTE+ljTVMS8mbza8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.74.3 with SMTP id b3mr9844187ybl.1.1241349897288; Sun, 03 May 2009 04:24:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1241340909.28232.10.camel@milan> References: <7a7e682b0905011044s2449334eu9b3ebb3c54747c2e@mail.gmail.com> <959043.52227.qm@web32404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1241340909.28232.10.camel@milan> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:24:57 +0200 Message-ID: <357b51820905030424u6d90f0b1r98310c20797d6afc@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Task list in Gnome Shell - mockup From: Siegfried-Angel To: Milan Bouchet-Valat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 11:25:14 -0000 Hi, "Moving mouse down the list uses the Alt+Tab effect to bring respective windows to the front." I haven't seen the Aero effect, so, do the raised window go back to where they were before after you move the mouse down from them? If so, I like the idea, else prepare for a big rant about how it would mess up the desktop badly ;). Also, does Click+Drag work with a touchpad? (Never tried it :P). About the workspaces, IMHO the best would be to have them like in your last mockup but showing them the same way as they would be displayed in the overlay. Cheers, -- Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) Ubuntu Developer. Debian Contributor. From gregknicholson@gmail.com Sun May 3 12:37:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37743750122 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 12:37:21 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:47:0:60:M1430,S,T,N,W9:.:?:?] (up: 3058 hrs), (link: (Google 2)), [209.85.128.190] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NsewjB1Wx1xI for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 12:37:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com (fk-out-0910.google.com [209.85.128.190]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7422750161 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 12:37:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id f33so1857669fkf.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 05:37:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Fhn4lmOnCEkDROnBe05JVfFQZDJfwrmFtFfzkdJT3Ew=; b=dyFyphh5iXZmRMa+7i9c2UsH2KrRwzkBVJeqyZi3up4nKf3N70LFWx5lGsrJH8MQ2Y 1StXsh1t/g8FWxMILeTR27ts4YqfTgbh9Na32LuEclGV8oMPAmdx2zrDd0arBCYLy7qy h88OCm5etElmn7RC5/rnxMRxw/frFg9qnXzYk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=n1oU6A2wuVutCCuzBnqpA59xsHo4qkT4VnQiOEeiL6J7EXkl6iLrxqb1020Hp4EE38 eyap5u2xuVOuAjaGHNuc/HSoYY06nP0SwtN44mbphmHj6wcJ2ebiAiufyW8rxsduN8Sg 4Xa2q8ZeWgTiNicS8tTfz+VgrwYYA5tDjQ7h0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gregknicholson@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.71.82 with SMTP id g18mr4575572bkj.120.1241354224606; Sun, 03 May 2009 05:37:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:37:04 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 387af1ca51885d35 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Subtracting workspaces From: Greg K Nicholson To: Gnome List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 12:37:21 -0000 > Google Chrome addressed the problem that closing tabs made the "x's" on > other tabs into moving targets by making it so the close buttons remained > stationary until a user's mouse moved away from the tab zone.=C2=A0 Could > gnome-shell incorporate some similar convenience? Yeah, this is a good idea. From gregknicholson@gmail.com Sun May 3 12:46:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A475375002E for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 12:46:49 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.787 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.787 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_SPEC_REPLICA_OBFU=1.812] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3569 hrs), (distance 17, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.159] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6jbYvBr6uYou for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 12:46:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f159.google.com (mail-bw0-f159.google.com [209.85.218.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C8D7500C8 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 12:46:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so2885203bwz.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 05:46:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2fbkF3LO/4Hr2ipUymo3Rtn/dIYPTS2rWkQ1u6nWEsE=; b=Q910VTSEk720bXCZsuwATEma67NdVAZy0LIiZQlaT5oz9uUp/ZkvBqkn0swAUX4zwW HyjWcTvKJ/Z1KT+sDNikjgPeh9JOVplsLHOLYUB9Z42UXeSgMPPzsMnfzJSJ4oYHPgYu MrDxvIsBmhbYvSWo+hEjVAUwS3oYY3Tix6hRM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=ebpoJ+I5bpAo7AfLrrNzD3EQrCNbfWj/2vBUDGi8ftUGZpyRKb0eF4b8taUtaQn4Xc KVAt2HI3HLzHPZ2q1cLplz+9cz6WikVJjat4+Wh0Ww2LAiG2r7eui/tOD1bWEJhGLp8E sL3XzkWnn646bnadHsJgMbq7niZxwC72Rf5IQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gregknicholson@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.55.15 with SMTP id s15mr4641837bkg.53.1241354792559; Sun, 03 May 2009 05:46:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1241340909.28232.10.camel@milan> References: <7a7e682b0905011044s2449334eu9b3ebb3c54747c2e@mail.gmail.com> <959043.52227.qm@web32404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1241340909.28232.10.camel@milan> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:46:32 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: fbd1eaf44bbe22e5 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Task list in Gnome Shell - mockup From: Greg K Nicholson To: Gnome List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 12:46:49 -0000 > That's actually how GTK+ menus work currently: click and hold, release > on the item you want; or just click and release, and click again on the > item you want. That's quite good, but IMHO we may need a quicker > solution to switch windows, where you don't need to go through a whole > menu. An idea: Point at the menu and scroll. A semi-transparent replica of the menu should open. Scrolling up/forwards should move the highlight up; scrolling down/backwards should move the highlight down. When the pointer leaves the menu-button area (not the area where the semi-transparent menu is), the chosen window is activated and the semi-transparent menu display closes. If the user clicks or clicks-and-holds on the menu-button while the semi-transparent display is open, the display should become fully opaque and behave as the normal menu. From ankere@gmail.com Sun May 3 13:36:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D54175006B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 13:36:39 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.786 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.786 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SARE_SPEC_REPLICA_OBFU=1.812] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 206 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pz4lEx6zEwHW for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 13:36:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EBFF75002E for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 13:36:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so2919251fxm.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 06:36:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=evkaj782HS9p3gMT4ZOvziviCVHFNzmop9FTSJZxVNI=; b=wY00GAp1LyY7uzMXe9+f4z/ILR/MR5zSHv+lZ1ZBYm2pvIDV4cPMAdkw6VlRxAD4ff Dm7XFV5Cw8ER2ckKGp8qMwjP5QEahfvYFGXanhKC01VUeWXNpGYh/zgV9/9Rt+CTju2f kKNiBdCQSzNfPb/J9ArVdjeGgWdCRKw3th9pI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=KlSLNd0HNH2iO4OmsD9jlJ447slTyACN+wZ2IAFFX522H8N4ecORXpKjGh4yCQf9QZ 0SL+LUbU+nQ4ciAyvFTan2DkEpX4q5uwPmpv9IgzzKr5udS34sGwNPSc/cF4K+kUOldK PIqONv9/gzr3/BYtWF725ShLqLzpJQvsVPAKk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.248.17 with SMTP id a17mr2821686mus.83.1241357782503; Sun, 03 May 2009 06:36:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7a7e682b0905011044s2449334eu9b3ebb3c54747c2e@mail.gmail.com> <959043.52227.qm@web32404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1241340909.28232.10.camel@milan> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 16:36:22 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905030636x2f257f9ch8cb6838eafb05174@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Task list in Gnome Shell - mockup From: Anton Kerezov To: Greg K Nicholson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016369fa2fdaa4ff1046902217f Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 13:36:39 -0000 --0016369fa2fdaa4ff1046902217f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Greg K Nicholson wrote: > An idea: Point at the menu and scroll. > > A semi-transparent replica of the menu should open. Scrolling > up/forwards should move the highlight up; scrolling down/backwards > should move the highlight down. > > When the pointer leaves the menu-button area (not the area where the > semi-transparent menu is), the chosen window is activated and the > semi-transparent menu display closes. > > If the user clicks or clicks-and-holds on the menu-button while the > semi-transparent display is open, the display should become fully > opaque and behave as the normal menu. > Now that's an interesting idea. I would love to see it implemented somehow ... Anton --0016369fa2fdaa4ff1046902217f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Greg K N= icholson <greg@gkn.m= e.uk> wrote:
=A0
An idea: Point at the menu and scroll.

A semi-transparent replica of the menu should open. Scrolling
up/forwards should move the highlight up; scrolling down/backwards
should move the highlight down.

When the pointer leaves the menu-button area (not the area where the
semi-transparent menu is), the chosen window is activated and the
semi-transparent menu display closes.

If the user clicks or clicks-and-holds on the menu-button while the
semi-transparent display is open, the display should become fully
opaque and behave as the normal menu.

Now that's an interesting idea. I woul= d love to see it implemented somehow ...



Anton
--0016369fa2fdaa4ff1046902217f-- From aantny@gmail.com Sun May 3 13:55:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD17F7500CA for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 13:55:08 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 3720 hrs), (distance 17, link: (Google 2)), [72.14.220.157] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dy2Z7SZ-Yu+B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 13:54:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.157]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C261A750069 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 13:54:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so1196083fga.10 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 06:54:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=5TLiw0vypWIMKSsUFgU5FZf0e9MEe9duuSnyxc9TnWw=; b=vcmHrLyUI56iADh3gZX7688eIuZk2USgFoGTaJGIOYY7geFw5pzioVOocbFvypLVZx qIzwKJNDuAKeJSrwA+abXLfhhH7IdOLk/m20+BIAGLL+SYapOVFjKQvmGfFId6ulsi1W 9gMQ9TSOeKWCUDdkC8nHkb5+aSkOtF1s9FmqQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=rzfH0sIaQGsRldtyPJuhlkTtPOwGaA3dtX7PpOTDAUl7c+7XgpGhKtXtl2rPhiT4RJ TMImXQEGOhnmSaNqpQ0koqJC088rHZjMR5BsuN3WgLaaJDNZzXLhltt8Vtu64/xwihz4 7Yv928juQnYT0szu8y8A7Lm89+zUDYHCdWfw4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.60.15 with SMTP id i15mr4674624fga.5.1241358886958; Sun, 03 May 2009 06:54:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 16:54:46 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Subtracting workspaces From: Natan Yellin To: Brian Fleeger Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd341007ef65004690263a9 Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 13:55:08 -0000 --000e0cd341007ef65004690263a9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone considered getting rid of the + and - buttons altogether. I thin= k it makes more sense to automatically add/subtract workspaces so that there'= s always one more workspace than the ones which are being used. (I was planning on writing a patch for this myself, but school and real lif= e haven't allowed it.) Natan On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Brian Fleeger wrote= : > Hi all, > > > Ever since I first got the gnome-shell running, I have noticed that > getting rid of empty workspaces along the periphery feels very > mouse-intensive as I jump from workspace to workspace closing them. This > is especially the case since users have to click the Minus-sign in a > particular order, and it appears to be a difficult motor pattern for my > hands to adapt (maybe it's just me though=85). It doesn't help that addi= ng > spaces looks so pretty that I just keep adding more than I really need, a= nd > then have to close a bunch. > > > > Google Chrome addressed the problem that closing tabs made the "x's" on > other tabs into moving targets by making it so the close buttons remained > stationary until a user's mouse moved away from the tab zone. Could > gnome-shell incorporate some similar convenience? > > > One way would be to include a minus-sign nearby to the plus sign in the > corner. > > See: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3606/3496416276_2149de9687_o.png > > > Maybe the minus part could be faded out if no windows were available for > "subtracting." Maybe the plus/minus combo could be in addition to the > current minus sign that appears over new workspaces, or maybe the > in-workspace minus sign would only appear if a user's mouse was inside th= e > workspace zone? Anyway, this is just one idea for keeping people's mouse > hands from becoming too tired. > > > I don't know if anyone else finds this distracting, much less if it > qualifies as a "bug" worth filing. Does anyone else get tired? > > > > Regards, > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > > --000e0cd341007ef65004690263a9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Has anyone considered getting rid of the + and - buttons a= ltogether. I think it makes more sense to automatically add/subtract worksp= aces so that there's always one more workspace than the ones which are = being used.

(I was planning on writing a patch for this myself, but school and real= life haven't allowed it.)

Natan


On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Brian Fl= eeger <brian= fleeger@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi all,


Ever since I first got the gnome-shell running, I have noticed= that getting rid of empty workspaces along=20 the periphery feels very mouse-intensive as I jump from workspace to worksp= ace=20 closing them.=A0 This is especially the case since users have = to=20 click the Minus-sign in a particular order, and it appears to be a difficul= t=20 motor pattern for my hands to adapt (maybe it's just me though=85).=A0 = It doesn't help that adding spaces looks so pretty that I just keep add= ing more than I really need, and then have to close a bunch.

=A0

= Google Chrome addressed the problem that closing tabs made the "x'= s" on other tabs into moving targets by making it so the close buttons= remained stationary until a user's mouse moved away from the tab zone.= =A0 Could gnome-shell incorporate some similar convenience?


One way would be to=20 include a minus-sign nearby to the plus sign in the corner.=A0

See: ht= tp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3606/3496416276_2149de9687_o.png


Maybe the minus part could be faded out if no=20 windows were available for "subtracting."=A0 Maybe t= he plus/minus combo=20 could be in addition to the current minus sign that appears over new=20 workspaces, or maybe the in-workspace minus sign would only appear if a use= r's mouse was inside the workspace zone?=A0 Anyway, this i= s just one idea for keeping people's=20 mouse hands from becoming too tired.

=A0

I don't know if anyone else fi= nds this distracting, much less if it qualifies as a "bug" worth = filing.=A0 Does anyone else get tired?=20 =A0

=A0

Regards,

Brian

<= /div>

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--000e0cd341007ef65004690263a9-- From danw@gnome.org Sun May 3 14:22:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC9667500D8 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 14:22:21 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_Unix=-1] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: NetBSD 3.0 (DF), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [69.25.196.35] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XGk76fz9mf9q for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 14:22:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mysterion.org (mysterion.org [69.25.196.35]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FD4975002E for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 14:22:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from desktop.home.mysterion.org (c-24-99-22-247.hsd1.ga.comcast.net [24.99.22.247]) by mysterion.org (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5DCB18028C; Sun, 3 May 2009 10:22:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49FDA889.6000406@gnome.org> Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 10:22:01 -0400 From: Dan Winship User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090320) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anton Kerezov Subject: Activities [was Re: Subtracting workspaces] References: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7a7e682b0905030029g34c7ca86meb35a6ecc317798f@mail.gmail.com> <753bbf8f0905030225h1fa25dbeleefc67c3a4c88dfb@mail.gmail.com> <7a7e682b0905030248m6c1fc340ncf26adfcb8a8c7b0@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7a7e682b0905030248m6c1fc340ncf26adfcb8a8c7b0@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 14:22:22 -0000 Anton Kerezov wrote: > But if someone wants to close an activity (represented by workspace) OK, lots of people are confused about this. The workspaces do not represent activities, they represent workspaces, just like in the current GNOME desktop. The fact that the menu/button says "Activities" is not meant to imply that therefore each workspace is an "activity". It is referring to the *entire* overlay view. Your various activities may each be scattered across multiple workspaces, and the application launcher and recent files are "activities" as well. The label generally sucks and there was discussion about changing it, except no one could come up with anything we liked any better. Some people have proposed various ideas for making the desktop more explicitly "activity-focused", but that was not part of the original GNOME Shell plan, and these ideas are no more (or less) likely to make it into the final GNOME Shell than any of the other ideas that people have proposed. -- Dan From ankere@gmail.com Sun May 3 14:37:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B54C750069 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 14:37:34 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 216 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C3WGF5MJiLxl for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 14:37:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5F3475006B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 14:37:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so2938976fxm.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 07:37:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=2WiK4hlw4mZYQcvVpf9LEqGC30qvu4epv1QyNldVlCw=; b=cVbayvzIZLt0TR6Rc/w8cN8LjZfePdD+Mj3vw3yJV2cSFZsH3RtZMqsZNhRqIv6NiA oAJV/iCUN35JPxBInyh6rO4ODL/3G84idrzDYI2oHMT8G0lcJ43+XfXWN+pirOWt4DH2 dEKj9TQfczG26+F8fbuDeKdvvsiBiGFQL30tY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=VrxXYccpYVMyBE/W/zppvu+iP/6S+0Z5NKhj1ZqgWAioupKUSGqj3wPoDXxaxw9A8z bGJfemwJQtVNl8CTCEfqL/Liqkf/h5WpyYYMW6oEz/8K7Nt5SQG60R+TBPIbNntR4G75 JrXN+MXlRUbJFSUrq3L0RQqKX8HE/q06NF0JU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.52.13 with SMTP id e13mr1550845muk.46.1241361437167; Sun, 03 May 2009 07:37:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 17:37:17 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905030737pdb7c09fl6f31579e03c30029@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Subtracting workspaces From: Anton Kerezov To: Natan Yellin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364166ff800f27046902fbf9 Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 14:37:34 -0000 --0016364166ff800f27046902fbf9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Natan Yellin wrote: > Has anyone considered getting rid of the + and - buttons altogether. I > think it makes more sense to automatically add/subtract workspaces so that > there's always one more workspace than the ones which are being used. > That's really interesting point. Once I talked with Owen about AI and how it could be integrated in Gnome 3.0. This might look as simple task for AI but I suggest not only to add more workspaces as the user needs them but to monitor how much has been added and the next time to start with e.g. 3 workspaces by default if the user is doing 3 activities each time he/she starts the PC. Any comments? Anton --0016364166ff800f27046902fbf9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Natan Ye= llin <aantny@gmail= .com> wrote:
Has anyone considered getting rid of the + and - buttons a= ltogether. I think it makes more sense to automatically add/subtract worksp= aces so that there's always one more workspace than the ones which are = being used.

That's really interesting point. Once I tal= ked with Owen about AI and how it could be integrated in Gnome 3.0. This mi= ght look as simple task for AI but I suggest not only to add more workspace= s as the user needs them but to monitor how much has been added and the nex= t time to start with e.g. 3 workspaces by default if the user is doing 3 ac= tivities each time he/she starts the PC. Any comments?

Anton
--0016364166ff800f27046902fbf9-- From danw@gnome.org Sun May 3 14:39:50 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 927F8750069 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 14:39:50 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_Unix=-1] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: NetBSD 3.0 (DF), (distance 19, link: ethernet/modem), [69.25.196.35] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EiysRIcDhkkM for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 14:39:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mysterion.org (mysterion.org [69.25.196.35]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B0C775002E for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 14:39:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from desktop.home.mysterion.org (c-24-99-22-247.hsd1.ga.comcast.net [24.99.22.247]) by mysterion.org (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 329768028C; Sun, 3 May 2009 10:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49FDACA2.3080408@gnome.org> Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 10:39:30 -0400 From: Dan Winship User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090320) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Fleeger Subject: Re: Subtracting workspaces References: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: GNOME Shell List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 14:39:50 -0000 Brian Fleeger wrote: > Ever since I first got the gnome-shell running, I have noticed that > getting rid of empty workspaces along the periphery feels very > mouse-intensive as I jump from workspace to workspace closing them. > This is especially the case since users have to click the Minus-sign in > a particular order, and it appears to be a difficult motor pattern for > my hands to adapt (maybe it's just me though…). It doesn't help that > adding spaces looks so pretty that I just keep adding more than I really > need, and then have to close a bunch. I agree both that it's difficult to remove a lot of workspaces, and also that this isn't a use case that you'd really expect people to need in the real world, unless they're just playing with the (+) button. > One way would be to include a minus-sign nearby to the plus sign in the > corner. Yes. Anton Kerezov wrote: > The logic of adding workspaces is too unpredictable > though looking good. Yes, unfortunately. It tries to be clever and keep the spatial relations between the workspaces consistent, but no one understands this and so it just ends up being confusing. But if we did a more naive/non-stable ordering, then adding and removing workspaces would make you lose track of things because they'd get moved around in the overlay. An alternative possibility would be to let the user manage the layout of workspaces in the overlay; give the workspaces titlebars and make them draggable within the overlay just like windows are draggable outside the overlay. Then the user can add and remove workspaces and rearrange them into whatever layout he likes (though we'd still have to shrink them sometimes to make room to add new ones). Natan Yellin wrote: > Has anyone considered getting rid of the + and - buttons altogether. > I think it makes more sense to automatically add/subtract workspaces so > that there's always one more workspace than the ones which are being > used. It seems like it would be awkward that there'd always be an empty workspace there, and as soon as you added something to it, it would create another one... but there could be some workable plan here. -- Dan From ankere@gmail.com Sun May 3 14:43:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3334F750127; Sun, 3 May 2009 14:43:25 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 216 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k8h3mzjsabtU; Sun, 3 May 2009 14:43:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA556750138; Sun, 3 May 2009 14:43:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so2940909fxm.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 07:43:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=7NEe52xL6Z/FP3SAlow6iqaHcPRSoOqd57uAcaPIu6c=; b=AR2aOG/tulMb/pSbX10Qm8nM4cTQ1BAHamQzVVIQUAJeFA9UUpYwW1Peh3dwwkTcKQ fgwWuxPfRiLxKcaVOM9+39GbhkgIJsWlezFkjS2j7fu2NfglZXJAU6S9cKByi0LdyUNX w3zxelVfc3JBW6hFyCjtYDsTKZOP8RMwDSiGE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=UnUvKICnMIvnN3WaFYeo94LCZNfx9kvxq2R4mXi3kBTYVFrQu18fsVDVPTU80jkS8S yjD8eKKHowtjt6kK7/d2tocaIybtReICoed9EcMJabJiidsrDbJaDbbm1OPDPDi001/o CzCSizKRnCOK0YTUeXXrltkzPadN8v62ZoGyc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.248.17 with SMTP id a17mr2852830mus.83.1241361788053; Sun, 03 May 2009 07:43:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <49FDA889.6000406@gnome.org> References: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7a7e682b0905030029g34c7ca86meb35a6ecc317798f@mail.gmail.com> <753bbf8f0905030225h1fa25dbeleefc67c3a4c88dfb@mail.gmail.com> <7a7e682b0905030248m6c1fc340ncf26adfcb8a8c7b0@mail.gmail.com> <49FDA889.6000406@gnome.org> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 17:43:08 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905030743s18bfca03k854cc1b75c676cc1@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Activities [was Re: Subtracting workspaces] From: Anton Kerezov To: Dan Winship Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016369fa2fd6a29310469031096 Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 14:43:25 -0000 --0016369fa2fd6a29310469031096 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2009/5/3 Dan Winship > Anton Kerezov wrote: > > But if someone wants to close an activity (represented by workspace) > > OK, lots of people are confused about this. The workspaces do not > represent activities, they represent workspaces, just like in the > current GNOME desktop. That's true but I would like to have settings to associate an activity with a workspace as I do now. There is no point in havein one activity spead in several workspaces, at least to me. > The label generally sucks and there was discussion about changing it, > except no one could > come up with anything we liked any better. Yes the label is a bit confusing because it does not represent a list of activities in any way but is showing the System (file or physical). So I suggest we rename it to System or Computer (we may in the future refer to it by voice and associate this 'Computer' with a certain name and to call it Joe open a workspace ... ;) but that is too far way in the future) Anton --0016369fa2fd6a29310469031096 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2009/5/3 Dan Winship &= lt;danw@gnome.org>
Anton Kerezov wrote:
> But if someone wants to close an activity (represented by workspace)
OK, lots of people are confused about this. The workspaces do not
represent activities, they represent workspaces, just like in the
current GNOME desktop.

That's true but I would lik= e to have settings to associate an activity with a workspace as I do now. T= here is no point in havein one activity spead in several workspaces, at lea= st to me.
=A0
The = label generally sucks and there was discussion about changing it, except no= one could
come up with anything we liked any better.

Yes the lab= el is a bit confusing because it does not represent a list of activities in= any way but is showing the System (file or physical). So I suggest we rena= me it to System or Computer (we may in the future refer to it by voice and = associate this 'Computer' with a certain name and to call it Joe op= en a workspace ... ;) but that is too far way in the future)


Anton
--0016369fa2fd6a29310469031096-- From william.jon.mccann@gmail.com Sun May 3 15:54:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA2F750127 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 15:54:33 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 393 hrs), (distance 13, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.221.112] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TBWgK0m83Mf7 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 15:54:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-qy0-f112.google.com (mail-qy0-f112.google.com [209.85.221.112]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A1F75002E for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 15:54:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so6267367qyk.13 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:54:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=fQuH2IlIMFXXPYezTmLqMb4OKunq9mjD067yPf20794=; b=KnP/KO0je+c36+eK11nD5D2OgwYKCB/3gjvcSq2bKcMzY/Pi4ehXIdhyPU80782M3I eC2WCsFZP2sVjksCPOwtF3qM/rMnSrSoO+m0lWbERt8ILJpXvo0Jcm/lQ2jtsCtODFOk j+xI4EdGPL++uE0cjFFZqYBRcS5iON8cBFQ0k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jYguK0zmorz5keimXSo1twHrw+i2xxux1+9Y44rVnPWPbGD+X134S1bRzyzjYCKmOb Dlrf47RuNf2I6i2hVRNb7vel+9ieEbWiq8G779mboaINfTzuRvAqoWwhzWdurINAe9Bn kyrgSM84yYEt+DsPP0Xq41a7McZfOXzY5laJs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.45.212 with SMTP id g20mr7791709vcf.43.1241366056771; Sun, 03 May 2009 08:54:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 11:54:16 -0400 Message-ID: <939dd5750905030854w273d93d3m923ac25cf25c71a3@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Subtracting workspaces From: William Jon McCann To: Natan Yellin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 15:54:33 -0000 Hi, On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Natan Yellin wrote: > Has anyone considered getting rid of the + and - buttons altogether. I think > it makes more sense to automatically add/subtract workspaces so that there's > always one more workspace than the ones which are being used. > > (I was planning on writing a patch for this myself, but school and real life > haven't allowed it.) One problem with that approach is that it doesn't allow us to default to having only one workspace. And I think we really do want only one by default. Jon From ankere@gmail.com Sun May 3 16:37:26 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF395750069 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 16:37:26 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 236 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6FzwWHBv7UhC for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 16:37:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9717875002E for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 16:37:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so2980735fxm.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 09:37:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Lv8yM7ZKA5XZ9vMHLCqmYri70Ojz88iGFNVQ14S/0BA=; b=IiAqg8gihw3n8bPiC97DCXeOWz47n1eLLnukXIc9i0I58OL1q+7+IO1AXxM1KW5+vv TrkqiJO0FXqWYRhqV123enOIdsW5XBIDxb+lhVmtEAraVlkq4mBPwSIP0XgLKNHu+slu 7+FT34A8Zpq8mOGrclQ1ly8dtD58UfEBo1dRw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=gHRS35wji/HwGLDHVPQ5pgdMMrGE/UnJ30jwXFkI4PkuxVo85PNNxhQIFKs7K8lspJ pw2LOj+jbmJkrunyzyspG+ffOQ4bWWe2e3G+6Nuq7R57C8h6oUUSramXvSs8sKTnmwhl htlME7Eqr2NN0lcNmMOfVF7Zxqx+wLOe7PtO4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.248.17 with SMTP id a17mr2911061mus.83.1241368629539; Sun, 03 May 2009 09:37:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <939dd5750905030854w273d93d3m923ac25cf25c71a3@mail.gmail.com> References: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <939dd5750905030854w273d93d3m923ac25cf25c71a3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 19:37:09 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905030937s5b67f582ia10eed750df77be2@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Subtracting workspaces From: Anton Kerezov To: William Jon McCann Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016369fa2fd32f4ea046904a8ff Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 16:37:27 -0000 --0016369fa2fd32f4ea046904a8ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 6:54 PM, William Jon McCann < william.jon.mccann@gmail.com> wrote: > > One problem with that approach is that it doesn't allow us to default > to having only one workspace. And I think we really do want only one > by default. I have to say that this is in no way suggested to the user because over 70% of the overlay is taken up by workspaces stuff. If we want to encourage the usage of one workspace then the overlay should be "filled" with other stuff. -- A.K. --0016369fa2fd32f4ea046904a8ff Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 6:54 PM, William = Jon McCann <william.jon.mccann@gmail.com> wrote:

One problem with that approach is that it doesn't allow us to def= ault
to having only one workspace. =A0And I think we really do want only one
by default.

I have to say that this is in no way sugge= sted to the user because over 70% of the overlay is taken up by workspaces = stuff. If we want to encourage the usage of one workspace then the overlay = should be "filled" with other stuff.


--
A.K.
--0016369fa2fd32f4ea046904a8ff-- From alex.anthony28991@googlemail.com Sun May 3 16:37:40 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38C28750077 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 16:37:40 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 1473 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3gMlShoXz78f for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 16:37:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DC7D750030 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 16:37:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so3023675ewy.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 09:37:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:content-type :date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y+0cA/EUdsQw/sxgygFirq8mSCj706sPPJWyFOLDPzQ=; b=I8SiriD1jz5gik4V/XQuKc8ede8ZXLSSTXhbKPM1HKGHcqe5T7rFePmyPQoJAOviZv I0rwR6N3JHq/Gl6fnFajDY72Z2sAks2k0kclkmLp9iZr5diL6fqFDerT+k8jsTjVqMz2 0YapQiVFcngOqOPo0/7+a5gRxZW8V2WX1M5IQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer :content-transfer-encoding; b=qqGi+j5BYQS7LlUDmvLhjiLCVOFzA3YPvo3jN5vWMeH/QgfAAqlB920U6kPHphDYVf BSvO0kWX6bmS+7PQLfr/t7mfUmWO1zcTIUufXsZJWFmaLJJq6u3QopWioXOmni2ik2Ua OJnXdU8qwHod9vQpJ8iTA6lD+Jcch2k96UOl8= Received: by 10.210.19.7 with SMTP id 7mr1055671ebs.73.1241368639152; Sun, 03 May 2009 09:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.0.4? ([92.10.162.242]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5sm6333472ewy.52.2009.05.03.09.37.18 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 03 May 2009 09:37:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Applications Unnecessary? From: Alex Anthony To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 17:37:17 +0100 Message-Id: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 16:37:40 -0000 A little idea I had for some (in some cases quite major) changes to Gnome shell. They probably go against everything already discussed, but there might be something about it that you like. And it doesn't address the remaining design questions. Anyway here's the link: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/ApplicationsUnnecessary Alex From artirj@gmail.com Sun May 3 16:43:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3C47500F9 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 16:43:37 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 236 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X0GuawxdIrnM for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 16:43:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5057750077 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 16:43:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so2982785fxm.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 09:43:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=5XOzDoBOKPD2mQIT0Gp9f4OTd2JnG3PfxlqrPMtElHI=; b=CJKuAL81J2A3VGGxtYIMFqabDs/MrPvUQCCKwF4h7IWEPncHw2ogipvdxEAIxWp+Q2 V/QZghGQPhYbTd4QytPi1P6KSSXV+uOfDpf8AANVJ935txnV+hsMkkufLyMUvYd4FeBw QFSQXecklEEDap1kmk/D3V8BPVUX0jAcWk3s8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=qRKZEXFSQ1AKY6xSeE2kFMUBD98zpNFeH2JhK5TQJ5oScm0//ooYowcfQIp9BgKDRy D/zhAUdxN+k6vMGWu34/yMVscO7a3X6TEkpkpf7ONBr7YAUKNoeH7NCaRwwkot5v4YzJ x1T8Iar7JaRlh18sS31tCv31DqaR7DvPipbtg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.118.207 with SMTP id w15mr4826302bkq.97.1241368998897; Sun, 03 May 2009 09:43:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 17:43:18 +0100 Message-ID: <753bbf8f0905030943g55360e5awa31b94d97b191988@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Ric=F3n?= To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dd8e7436e94a046904be99 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 16:43:37 -0000 --0016e6dd8e7436e94a046904be99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The good ol' document centric GNOME idea.. I like it, but the "People" menu is maybe an info overkill. Now we have the indicator applet and that, coupled by telepathy should do the job. 2009/5/3 Alex Anthony > A little idea I had for some (in some cases quite major) changes to > Gnome shell. They probably go against everything already discussed, but > there might be something about it that you like. And it doesn't address > the remaining design questions. > > Anyway here's the link: > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/ApplicationsUnnecessary > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > --0016e6dd8e7436e94a046904be99 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The good ol' document centric GNOME idea.. I like it, but the "Peo= ple" menu is maybe an info overkill. Now we have the indicator applet = and that, coupled by telepathy should do the job.

2009/5/3 Alex Anthony <alex.anthony28991@googlemail.com>
A little idea I had for some (in some cases quite major) changes to
Gnome shell. They probably go against everything already discussed, but
there might be something about it that you like. And it doesn't address=
the remaining design questions.

Anyway here's the link:
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPla= yground/ApplicationsUnnecessary

Alex

_______________________________________________
gnome-shell-list mailing list
gnome-shell-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list

--0016e6dd8e7436e94a046904be99-- From nalimilan@club.fr Sun May 3 17:12:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97624750030 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 17:12:34 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:44:1:60:M1460,S,T,N,W8:.:?:?] (up: 6018 hrs), (link: ethernet/modem), [93.17.128.20] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hfm-bgYSYbaD for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 17:12:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp23.services.sfr.fr (smtp23.services.sfr.fr [93.17.128.20]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C45B750075 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 17:12:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from filter.sfr.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by msfrf2326.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id BA3E27000094; Sun, 3 May 2009 19:12:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (11.78.92-79.rev.gaoland.net [79.92.78.11]) by msfrf2326.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 789327000091; Sun, 3 May 2009 19:12:17 +0200 (CEST) X-SFR-UUID: 20090503171217493.789327000091@msfrf2326.sfr.fr Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary? From: Milan Bouchet-Valat To: Alex Anthony In-Reply-To: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 19:12:15 +0200 Message-Id: <1241370735.8657.7.camel@milan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 17:12:34 -0000 Le dimanche 03 mai 2009 à 17:37 +0100, Alex Anthony a écrit : > A little idea I had for some (in some cases quite major) changes to > Gnome shell. They probably go against everything already discussed, but > there might be something about it that you like. And it doesn't address > the remaining design questions. While ideally I tend to think users should not have to care about applications, but only about content, i.e. documents, people, websites and so on, I fear we've not tackled many issues with that approach. I think we really have applications that have the status of first-class objects: think of Rhythmbox, F-Spot, Evolution, even Firefox and possibly OpenOffice.org. These applications can be used to work with a collection of contents, and we're not going to fill the recent documents list with e-mails, music tracks or photos. You could make them be a single meta-document called "Music Library", "E-Mails" or so, maybe, that's a debate. Designs about that are welcome! But IMHO that's not so easy to replace without losing functionalities, and would require a complete redesign of our desktop conception (we're here to do so!). From alex.anthony28991@googlemail.com Sun May 3 17:51:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF3C575000B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 17:51:40 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 1484 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8wqv-SpLcP3Q for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 17:51:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34DC2750030 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 17:51:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so3049196ewy.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 10:51:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer :content-transfer-encoding; bh=7oI5W6b1ovjRE8KxvYK+jo0y7Cn8LmtpWvd4tvF/cTw=; b=LX6RUwEa4bUhA8Es1Hb0ssXpz/FUdM4tjOKcBRUhfAmJos06/tuKEMdI6pzzpsvONg QMOvXU4WqlyHcMez1B46SbW40RVVW0/PdqWEE3EnxC9XY4iQ8GyvSnPpwTrfBfL8J++F A8J1NSfdgt008rDQuz24w90ZAeOfMTHk5gcJg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:cc:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version :x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=uBE+sCAApHMJ43kX8SheQyjrqDdwrOO89MzbQuXajlqnTHys238nE4EVqKhdD41BP2 8G9FEgQhNhyKFHWRourqXBhqIUCQV2gmxLxtwoR3kiMjyhMOAK4WHGq2jbawdt4ylX3G s+nbuXYsC8s4MftCmfySI4XgnRBsEVtgsuU1U= Received: by 10.210.39.8 with SMTP id m8mr3683879ebm.91.1241373081459; Sun, 03 May 2009 10:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.0.4? ([92.10.162.242]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 21sm6631411ewy.114.2009.05.03.10.51.18 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 03 May 2009 10:51:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary? From: Alex Anthony To: artirj@gmail.com, Milan Bouchet-Valat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 18:51:16 +0100 Message-Id: <1241373076.5384.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 17:51:41 -0000 Jos? Luis Ric?n wrote: > Now we have the indicator applet and that, > coupled by telepathy should do the job. But that (and/or soylent) should, in my opinion, be integrated into gnome shell fully. Indicator applet notifies you of receiving, but does it let me start contacting people regardless of whether or not they're online. Communicating with people is a major part of using a computer. Milan Bouchet-Valat wrote > These applications can be used to work with a collection of contents, > and we're not going to fill the recent documents list with e-mails, > music tracks or photos. You could make them be a single meta-document > called "Music Library", "E-Mails" or so, maybe, that's a debate. True. This makes me wonder what Zeitgeist is going to do about this sort of high volume file. Perhaps by albums for music/folders for photos? Or only marked emails? Alex Sorry José, forgot to cc the list first time. From sander.dijkhuis@gmail.com Sun May 3 18:35:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA05A750075 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 18:35:55 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 3684 hrs), (distance 16, link: (Google 2)), [72.14.220.155] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ijhYEog6L+Sx for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 18:35:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.155]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5683750030 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 18:35:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so454806fgb.10 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 11:35:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+YM19W47udr1+PUu6PWRiqw1HLfgxsQxxXnOIpm773A=; b=Mo2ORBM3J16Y3CQpWAy7VdlPzlAt6uK+5N9DRFIF65CVaLuUdlLhQikPH7Pc3VhwdL +8R2LQqRSlwg9Ud+Lx6t3rFlLnGfNGoGnBu4SBNRicuB0xCrDu3OGYIkhYixHVPzHri8 nJTkvfF/gIg1ai++flPbHrA+m+W/6ekd/VNDs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=dB9Wc5jaSJkQJMaBUk+NW3Rgd/K7HPwFTORYIYKCtJLkQEjAJbM+xW6zdJLQ7TsO79 UWLiXl+gbmdVtVv2i+mqcaw8ulIthMF2pXUNXsVGm131oUfbb7ywqtq6Yp2u3hp6vGwS YE/fO1Moe+L+amsEVVwcOfUuLWxOcEPFDDR4Y= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.68.1 with SMTP id q1mr4963086fga.10.1241375735080; Sun, 03 May 2009 11:35:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Sander Dijkhuis Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:35:15 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Breadcrumbs in the panel To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 18:35:56 -0000 Thanks for the reactions about the breadcrumbs idea [1]! I tried to implement parts of it in a separate, experimental Git branch. The code is very ugly and some things like maximalization, minimalization and urgent windows don't work well yet, but it might be enough to see if the ideas work. Here is a screenshot of how it looks right now: http://picasaweb.google.com/sander.dijkhuis/GNOMEShell#5331656296470360274 Below are the commands to try the branch (edited from Marina's useful list of Git commands). Only the JavaScript files are changed, so if gnome-shell currently works for you, this should work too. First, navigate to the gnome-shell source directory: cd ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell To add my repository: git remote add -f sander git://github.com/sander/gnome-shell.git To switch to my branch: git checkout sander/breadcrumbs To run gnome-shell from my branch: src/gnome-shell --replace To return to the regular, official branch: git checkout master To get updates from my branch: git fetch sander git checkout sander/breadcrumbs To remove my repository: git remote rm sander Reporting technical bugs is probably not very useful for now, but I'm interested to hear about your experiences and ideas. For example, would this really make task switching slower than the current task bar at the bottom of the screen does? Things that aren't implemented, but would have been if I worked faster: - Display workspace names ("Workspace 1") in the overlay view. - Use the same grid layout in the workspace menu as in the overlay view. - When the mouse cursor hovers over a window title in the menu, highlight that window, as suggested by Brian Fleeger. - Show the window dropdown menu when switching windows using Alt-Tab. - Allow for point-and-scroll at the menus, as suggested by Greg K Nicholson. - Put the _ [] X buttons of maximized windows in the panel and hide their title bars. There's a Summer of Code project that will (among other things) let GNOME Shell work with tabs within windows, so that would allow for extending the breadcrumb trail to "Activities > workspace > window > tab". To see how a "maximized" mode should work in my view, try Maximus (used in the Ubuntu Netbook Remix): https://launchpad.net/maximus If anyone wants to experiment further with this code, please email me if the code is too unstructured or if more explanation is needed. [1]: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/BreadcrumbsEtc From jhs@jsschmid.de Sun May 3 18:47:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3144E75000B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 18:47:51 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) (up: 5275 hrs), (distance 21, link: ethernet/modem), [85.214.61.233] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nqPQlarYFGNl for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 18:47:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from jsschmid.de (jsschmid.de [85.214.61.233]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C868A75002E for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 18:47:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [192.168.1.139] (ppp-88-217-100-208.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.100.208]) by jsschmid.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BDC321A81B2; Sun, 3 May 2009 18:47:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Breadcrumbs in the panel From: Johannes Schmid To: Sander Dijkhuis In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-Io8pAyO1FdaGUQqTAc0Q" Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 20:47:30 +0200 Message-Id: <1241376450.4091.1.camel@Obelix> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 18:47:51 -0000 --=-Io8pAyO1FdaGUQqTAc0Q Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! Am Sonntag, den 03.05.2009, 20:35 +0200 schrieb Sander Dijkhuis: > Thanks for the reactions about the breadcrumbs idea [1]! I tried to imple= ment > parts of it in a separate, experimental Git branch. The code is very ugly= and > some things like maximalization, minimalization and urgent windows don't = work > well yet, but it might be enough to see if the ideas work. >=20 > Here is a screenshot of how it looks right now: > http://picasaweb.google.com/sander.dijkhuis/GNOMEShell#533165629647036027= 4 >=20 Cool! It's totally awesome that people start actually implementing this stuff! Regards, Johannes > [1]: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/BreadcrumbsEtc > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list >=20 --=-Io8pAyO1FdaGUQqTAc0Q Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkn95r8ACgkQAvZZn2XJ+bPWkQCgg1EHAmhHok6FeoUbI6BA5pv4 veQAoLTGiRipAqDREEwnZC9Qm3cu7Owx =+IfD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Io8pAyO1FdaGUQqTAc0Q-- From ankere@gmail.com Sun May 3 18:48:38 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EF4775002E for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 18:48:38 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3629 hrs), (distance 17, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.159] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IbFWQbpc8Zjh for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 18:48:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f159.google.com (mail-bw0-f159.google.com [209.85.218.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A048750030 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 18:48:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so3005362bwz.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 11:48:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=jIJSnoLjIH+cekC1y4FgaXg8N5xf6hH4s1r0EwYyG+U=; b=Cq/NC90QsJwtOAQ8oxrHQqH/A6HIVnLpX15nuGHwu5m5i+CZF4f4gBpvV7rCW2oxMt wSW97QutAqa8CvlKD2B7aEHzG7onzVwHE3yuebC4T1M6fiqXK7oBDKZlpe/L9YA5/sJc yd9UyHpLSL5Sp3PejD1xdC/EWP11j7DG6a11w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=iP2j8eWBmZ+6lAcRDW0cO9pWfKQvlvLrmmj9LGierGbXHT9yb9363Z+haiwFKQqAYi MdAw3L3i0ZTAYjG4ZaPV10aMiSXQ4wBGKXWBpG2Qfxhk2UD2oVSgBdIEX/JaLCPK3X9d yUB+vgEzGJyRaAGaChaDGVys9uuUR2VdA2CY4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.248.17 with SMTP id a17mr2974847mus.83.1241376500822; Sun, 03 May 2009 11:48:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1241370735.8657.7.camel@milan> References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241370735.8657.7.camel@milan> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 21:48:20 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905031148t2365c93cv12dbdf6b39fb4a67@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary? From: Anton Kerezov To: Milan Bouchet-Valat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016369fa2fd5d343b0469067d5f Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 18:48:38 -0000 --0016369fa2fd5d343b0469067d5f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Milan Bouchet-Valat wrote: > > Designs about that are welcome! But IMHO that's not so easy to replace > without losing functionalities, and would require a complete redesign of > our desktop conception (we're here to do so!). I would say that if we don't change something we risk Gnome to become a loser on the DE's playground. Everybody is slowly embracing the document model but now and this time only Gnome has the chance to do it all with one step because the release is major. -- A.K. --0016369fa2fd5d343b0469067d5f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Milan Bo= uchet-Valat <nali= milan@club.fr> wrote:

Designs about that are welcome! But IMHO that's not so easy to replace<= br> without losing functionalities, and would require a complete redesign of our desktop conception (we're here to do so!).

I w= ould say that if we don't change something we risk Gnome to become a lo= ser on the DE's playground.=A0 Everybody is slowly embracing the docume= nt model but now and this time only Gnome has the chance to do it all with = one step because the release is major.


--
A.K.
--0016369fa2fd5d343b0469067d5f-- From ankere@gmail.com Sun May 3 18:53:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA5D750030 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 18:53:43 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.521 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, TW_JK=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 259 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jPCpYqtPFKLC for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 18:53:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DC0B75006B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 18:53:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so3027830fxm.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 11:53:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=sLxR4Z/ta1F9+vUHcW5c7yc3SLhDq3YhK1WsrstqpgE=; b=Rh1ZW83sdI9MfeZUuTVQPFMNBWZiUWmybkRcawga2sK5o37TzxpFM1IBjRHjZvPFTd vzEWPxbwzynDGAQKadEAOUsDVVdoOpLpT/0XTmC0Qtx/kdPDHBtLD9QKFHj1SZXSi5Mh 0WDBFEg8ts4QXaq6MZWB3Lrlj6dlYMtUhp9G0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=TQPJz5MoQU3hR9YBRHcoAeJDoTkdI1NaD/uVeaIutjZsARafhAzVT8NHcg6FO7zPL7 xGzpP7et40vecSHvB3oPdsjO2E6cbi/AsOvDNYTzJX31DwIsgMZrqfKRfpBkugwquH88 l4kdpD03PZ+0uTRL3ntH7qCYxoq1xmM6FTFeM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.251.13 with SMTP id d13mr2958280mus.114.1241376806616; Sun, 03 May 2009 11:53:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 21:53:26 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905031153j4ddd5be2m9467805cf51a88ae@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Breadcrumbs in the panel From: Anton Kerezov To: Sander Dijkhuis Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364c7441973f060469068f85 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 18:53:43 -0000 --0016364c7441973f060469068f85 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Sander Dijkhuis wrote: > Thanks for the reactions about the breadcrumbs idea [1]! I tried to > implement > parts of it in a separate, experimental Git branch. The code is very ugly > and > some things like maximalization, minimalization and urgent windows don't > work > well yet, but it might be enough to see if the ideas work. I'll try it as soon as I get back to my PC in the campus. It looks very good on the screenshot so far ... -- A.K. --0016364c7441973f060469068f85 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Sander D= ijkhuis <= sander.dijkhuis@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the reactions about the breadcrumbs idea [1]! I tried to impleme= nt
parts of it in a separate, experimental Git branch. The code is very ugly a= nd
some things like maximalization, minimalization and urgent windows don'= t work
well yet, but it might be enough to see if the ideas work.

I'll try it as soon as I get back to my PC in the campus. It looks= very good on the screenshot so far ...



--
A.K.
--0016364c7441973f060469068f85-- From artirj@gmail.com Sun May 3 19:19:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F9EE7500C8 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 19:19:12 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.521 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, TW_JK=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 263 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jnMBtf5ZaB9y for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 19:19:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF5D375002E for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 19:18:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so3037353fxm.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 12:18:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=iwPSpDCXl9bqGWdmDY/WX+XC+oiAghN7QSQGl4hzPdI=; b=lrV/rAMFboeRbNHup6Gtj8RyOXgUAefp8+fXt/lqCV+/Aj2pInDg5cYUIyArrJh/zf toWrqdglNl9r0jG20hqb9mMXHcSE/czXDDtVnBGp6g5JSmGIjglCSDsTgaHHr9dQVGDl C67R9CK8iB6cRccN21NE/tjqWhoOzPlc2/mT0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=lYCKmOP6Y7pxr7U6qFM39LqRKITfVaxcwhNkvqjz2VFqBDoshf1Ro/Lj5/jFMZhwzQ SAnNkVEDf0msRAyX42Lbrwqae4D7NN0FkG0WCqWNCUM2pie07EhCIGIF2diCrUWuAJXn SAEi9CABWUiO0n59iRyPepkFPQLzB8t0EKCLc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.102.15 with SMTP id e15mr4905810bko.196.1241378333341; Sun, 03 May 2009 12:18:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7a7e682b0905031153j4ddd5be2m9467805cf51a88ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <7a7e682b0905031153j4ddd5be2m9467805cf51a88ae@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:18:53 +0100 Message-ID: <753bbf8f0905031218l35d4652bw3643e22d8b9e39a6@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Breadcrumbs in the panel From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Ric=F3n?= To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d7845b9738be046906ea76 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 19:19:12 -0000 --0016e6d7845b9738be046906ea76 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A big +1 for how you did that dropdown menu. It feels like a prolongation of the panel and not a subwindow( which happens in GNOME apps-places-system menu) 2009/5/3 Anton Kerezov > > > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Sander Dijkhuis > wrote: > >> Thanks for the reactions about the breadcrumbs idea [1]! I tried to >> implement >> parts of it in a separate, experimental Git branch. The code is very ugly >> and >> some things like maximalization, minimalization and urgent windows don't >> work >> well yet, but it might be enough to see if the ideas work. > > > I'll try it as soon as I get back to my PC in the campus. It looks very > good on the screenshot so far ... > > > > -- > A.K. > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > > --0016e6d7845b9738be046906ea76 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A big +1 for how you did=A0 that dropdown menu. It feels like a prolongatio= n of the panel and not a subwindow( which happens in GNOME apps-places-syst= em menu)


2009/5/3 Anton Kerezov <ankere@gmail.com&g= t;


On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Sander = Dijkhuis <sander.dijkhuis@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the reactions about the breadcrumbs idea [1]! I tried to impleme= nt
parts of it in a separate, experimental Git branch. The code is very ugly a= nd
some things like maximalization, minimalization and urgent windows don'= t work
well yet, but it might be enough to see if the ideas work.

I'll try it as soon as I get back to my PC in the campus. It= looks very good on the screenshot so far ...



--
A.K.

_______________________________________________
gnome-shell-list mailing list
gnome-shell-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list


--0016e6d7845b9738be046906ea76-- From nalimilan@club.fr Sun May 3 19:30:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6856675000B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 19:30:51 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:44:1:60:M1380, S, T, N, W8:.:?:?] (NAT!) (up: 6673 hrs), (link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [93.17.128.1] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y74x7edrpWAW for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 19:30:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp21.services.sfr.fr (smtp21.services.sfr.fr [93.17.128.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C498F7500C8 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 19:30:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from filter.sfr.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by msfrf2119.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id F336C700009E; Sun, 3 May 2009 21:30:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (11.78.92-79.rev.gaoland.net [79.92.78.11]) by msfrf2119.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id AB3CF7000093; Sun, 3 May 2009 21:30:33 +0200 (CEST) X-SFR-UUID: 20090503193033701.AB3CF7000093@msfrf2119.sfr.fr Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary? From: Milan Bouchet-Valat To: Anton Kerezov In-Reply-To: <7a7e682b0905031148t2365c93cv12dbdf6b39fb4a67@mail.gmail.com> References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241370735.8657.7.camel@milan> <7a7e682b0905031148t2365c93cv12dbdf6b39fb4a67@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 21:30:31 +0200 Message-Id: <1241379031.8657.24.camel@milan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 19:30:51 -0000 Le dimanche 03 mai 2009 à 21:48 +0300, Anton Kerezov a écrit : > > > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Milan Bouchet-Valat > wrote: > > Designs about that are welcome! But IMHO that's not so easy to > replace > without losing functionalities, and would require a complete > redesign of > our desktop conception (we're here to do so!). > > I would say that if we don't change something we risk Gnome to become > a loser on the DE's playground. Everybody is slowly embracing the > document model but now and this time only Gnome has the chance to do > it all with one step because the release is major Sure, I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything, but that's not trivial! And don't bother about Windows: they're not going to solve all the integration problem we can deal with, because of their many third party applications! Another point I should have made in my previous mail: applications are used differently than documents because they don't change over time. I mean: apps that are used by themselves are always present as launchers, because they're used all the time, whereas you don't always work on the same documents. That's why we have a "Recent docs" list, and a "Most used apps" list. So your design would need to tackle this too. ;-) From artirj@gmail.com Sun May 3 20:18:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9D3750075 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 20:18:33 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 273 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bcC2ljrynO0m for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 20:18:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74F5175000B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 20:18:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so3059333fxm.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 13:18:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=brsyaQztARs61aUjHodOJ8lgXpblzBX1YLZMJlYlXwo=; b=rlXcc16tqW7tohrHw5EGwUvH5WRtPEoTgmwVkVhydMl5fiwIsTEsKmrzCg76sqBO92 E2+XJjJpqkRoP31f11y0t5tPYTW+RxVveg/jsQxXbiQorsqW39bQ2Aet3I61xR+fXYcI D7Tp/BFQMMuYopjC2Tgc+vbF3j/NNwbfZ/LB8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=DSFalX16NtqASaDLR2ARvXY2SHKWtG/U9VeNepn5gfqFlaB3UnaAQUpJv0Z21btZMW BQWoXlYG4xV1f5arcH27DAiKeC58469FX4BhFD0baWt+8ALOn9bJq4VmPFHDGfLLXKAO U88xskeWmnTfAbNwub7/kEQLG53O6kb4cg5Lc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.60.72 with SMTP id o8mr4904047bkh.184.1241381896119; Sun, 03 May 2009 13:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 21:18:16 +0100 Message-ID: <753bbf8f0905031318o584812a4w8dc689326b5edf5f@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Good read From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Ric=F3n?= To: Gnome List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5abdbf2e609046907be36 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 20:18:33 -0000 --001636c5abdbf2e609046907be36 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://fredmorcos.blogspot.com/2008/06/gnome-in-age-of-decadence.html , specially the "Document centric" part. --001636c5abdbf2e609046907be36 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://fredmorcos.blogspot.com/2008/06/gnome-in-age-of-decadence.html , specially the "Document centric" part.
--001636c5abdbf2e609046907be36-- From dylanmccall@gmail.com Sun May 3 20:24:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67FD7500AE for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 20:24:51 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 3321 hrs), (distance 13, link: (Google 2)), [209.85.200.173] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lBO6SZhWVrJ2 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 20:24:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.173]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D96475000B for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 20:24:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so2668733wff.9 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 13:24:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:in-reply-to :references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer; bh=j+wwWvIY3etpriC7BqvsrCUl3ZScULy2ifBrjt7BoZE=; b=E2roDas3dHbtOuwA9F3rczFWYuu/nNRupyE3DBP1jvjH5Mfw8sYEJEzZbtEWa6mKvN c3OD+i5VmL6yjg7JmVnlSduYssSfsIDBdMrZ2gQKjn/ZmKl9Z5/CwBsjmyNtSjCzoouG 5SWaYXBy0VyRIbHi5EGTJ2uaZusoTitZwA9/c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id :mime-version:x-mailer; b=sILad0MZib2OMIWWlaogOMaeifv2TPydn1ZiqSApHCCxx4ihWDds2e52E/m96MlllH rMSQaup8ENk/se15jarfs/pRcIOryCddfF3A6UFNKMEjIu6CJuKq4UTs9c305pXPZDTL zsG79JcZ/6kKeHvYYSNbNVOafyq2Aaq8xgBJA= Received: by 10.142.128.3 with SMTP id a3mr1952169wfd.228.1241382274556; Sun, 03 May 2009 13:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.120? (d154-20-163-164.bchsia.telus.net [154.20.163.164]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k2sm7384752rvb.4.2009.05.03.13.24.33 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 03 May 2009 13:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary From: Dylan McCall To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1241370735.8657.7.camel@milan> References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241370735.8657.7.camel@milan> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-ZsOXw/LQS2/Oe4W4/ndB" Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 13:24:31 -0700 Message-Id: <1241382271.10815.174.camel@dylan-laptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 20:24:52 -0000 --=-ZsOXw/LQS2/Oe4W4/ndB Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > While ideally I tend to think users should not have to care about > applications, but only about content, i.e. documents, people, websites > and so on, I fear we've not tackled many issues with that approach. I > think we really have applications that have the status of first-class > objects: think of Rhythmbox, F-Spot, Evolution, even Firefox and > possibly OpenOffice.org. >=20 > These applications can be used to work with a collection of contents, > and we're not going to fill the recent documents list with e-mails, > music tracks or photos. You could make them be a single meta-document > called "Music Library", "E-Mails" or so, maybe, that's a debate. >=20 > Designs about that are welcome! But IMHO that's not so easy to replace > without losing functionalities, and would require a complete redesign of > our desktop conception (we're here to do so!). My thought on this is that the desktop has the need to be both document and application-centric at the same time, where some tasks require different kinds of workflows. A basic example is that a game is thought of as an application that the user directly executes. Another example is that a shell like F-Spot, Evolution, Banshee or Nautilus is application-centric; you open it to get at documents. An issue right now that hurts the document-centric approach is that applications are only really presented in one way (the towering Applications menu, which can quickly become a monstrosity since every application is in it). Further, there is nothing to help the user move content between them. In fairness, I have yet to see a system that does /better/; everything is equally bad at it. There are a few feeble pipes like drag and drop, and the file chooser widget in any UI toolkit, but nothing fully functional. In the process of getting a document from one place to another, the abstraction we have will inevitably burn down, leaving the user to contend with raw file management. The most obvious example is when uploading a photo to a web site. It very quickly stops being a "photo" and starts being a "file," because the only integration we possess with the local system is the file picker opened by the web browser. Two solutions. The bad one everyone seems hung up on is over-engineering the one, poor, generic file manager so it does everything from rating music to playing slideshows and paging through PDFs. Don't do that. I've been pondering this issue, poking REALLY cautiously at a dead simple framework that should accomplish better interconnection between applications for the end user. Going against common sense, I'll post a link to some early ponderings... http://docs.google.com/Presentation?id=3Ddgv4sbqn_23857c92hg The reason I'm poking carefully is because it feels too trivial and I'm afraid of building "yet another component framework" or a bizarre clone of drag & drop without the dragging. The plan is to plug in to what exists today for most types of data, allowing for seamless transition to awesomeness with very little extra infrastructure. It's really more about the design philosophy. My writing skills today are seriously broken, so I'll leave it to that little slideshow thing. Basically, I'm thinking of a framework and UI toolkit stuff that lets an application say "I provide content" or "I take content". This way applications could better interconnect, for example with nice context-sensitive application choosers. Opening a file from an application? Get a list of applications to browse for that file with. No more clicks than with a generic file manager, though considerably more logical. For example, the user may want a photo, so he chooses to open a photo and conveniently has the option to find said photo with F-Spot, or gThumb, or whatever application he had "stored it in" to begin with. It's about glue. It has to work both ways and it must be applied in lots more places. You can't have a towering menu and call that sufficient gluing, even if we do have drag and drop:) On the other hand, this also suggests that I think calling GNOME Shell "the shell" is somewhat flawed. The underlying philosophy with Calcium, no matter where it goes, is that /everything/ is the shell. (Hence the name; shells have a lot of calcium. There, if it has a pun THAT great, it must be awesome!). When an application is added to the system, it is an addition to the shell. Rhythmbox's music library should be no less a part of the shell than Nautilus or the GTK file chooser. It abstracts the storage of files, in this case music, allowing the user to choose them for some purpose. If we can accomplish that type of seamless, smooth bridge between everything, users will never need to think "files" unless they want to. Bye, Dylan PS: Sorry, my homework-fatigued brain thinks this message may be a complete jumble. Hope it isn't too bad... --=-ZsOXw/LQS2/Oe4W4/ndB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkn9/XgACgkQH38fupNe5XofNQCfQtk49pzpMO/nhwaAo5EaSG3m 7WwAnjNBzjhSsFL2ahAYBRoh8eiRbpwj =EnTT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-ZsOXw/LQS2/Oe4W4/ndB-- From artirj@gmail.com Sun May 3 20:45:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF046750075 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 20:45:33 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3647 hrs), (distance 19, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.159] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xR-knA-iQaP8 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 20:45:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f159.google.com (mail-bw0-f159.google.com [209.85.218.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFF2D750070 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 20:45:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so3047198bwz.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 13:45:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=3KvQFIteq1r1BSV+30l4ydU2awSwdXDmTcV2U54CE+s=; b=FNn7iuxSNbepFVq5KCwj4CZqjNCCO67rsGLIux5kQa4vU5YFxJrJUFHNafUCaPLCiy 5m0wDho6nwBr00/8nbYZW7sFbkw1ymvMbI/0ctKpKgIHKyxK8ZUkA3RSbbYvjdVI/dro bke6rd7MW9Z8HZA2CQ/ZTZS43n23P5WnH8GyA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=PnkIaMXtu58M/piuZ2qJqRTT/K1fKrmJKSEy1gIZbbhwauI4myokIdW7Uwlb5m3oWj u9U79i2rTy8GJKrEppcSOh2XwWfzuV3KgAi7l6CMIQGlNCR7yJqvnmX2oDtz8C/UHiyG 3Nb47mKmb9pekOp3wykBi0o4PC4n16wcZaK7I= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.57.138 with SMTP id c10mr4999019bkh.56.1241383512753; Sun, 03 May 2009 13:45:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1241382271.10815.174.camel@dylan-laptop> References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241370735.8657.7.camel@milan> <1241382271.10815.174.camel@dylan-laptop> Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 21:45:12 +0100 Message-ID: <753bbf8f0905031345t9b2097akeda97466245a7bea@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Ric=F3n?= To: Dylan McCall Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5c2424ec8570469081ffb Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 20:45:34 -0000 --001636c5c2424ec8570469081ffb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What you are proposing would require the apps to expose their capabilities (maybe through Dbus) and luckily there's a GSOC project on that line, so the base will be there if needed. 2009/5/3 Dylan McCall > > While ideally I tend to think users should not have to care about > > applications, but only about content, i.e. documents, people, websites > > and so on, I fear we've not tackled many issues with that approach. I > > think we really have applications that have the status of first-class > > objects: think of Rhythmbox, F-Spot, Evolution, even Firefox and > > possibly OpenOffice.org. > > > > These applications can be used to work with a collection of contents, > > and we're not going to fill the recent documents list with e-mails, > > music tracks or photos. You could make them be a single meta-document > > called "Music Library", "E-Mails" or so, maybe, that's a debate. > > > > Designs about that are welcome! But IMHO that's not so easy to replace > > without losing functionalities, and would require a complete redesign of > > our desktop conception (we're here to do so!). > > My thought on this is that the desktop has the need to be both document > and application-centric at the same time, where some tasks require > different kinds of workflows. A basic example is that a game is thought > of as an application that the user directly executes. Another example is > that a shell like F-Spot, Evolution, Banshee or Nautilus is > application-centric; you open it to get at documents. > > An issue right now that hurts the document-centric approach is that > applications are only really presented in one way (the towering > Applications menu, which can quickly become a monstrosity since every > application is in it). Further, there is nothing to help the user move > content between them. In fairness, I have yet to see a system that > does /better/; everything is equally bad at it. > > There are a few feeble pipes like drag and drop, and the file chooser > widget in any UI toolkit, but nothing fully functional. In the process > of getting a document from one place to another, the abstraction we have > will inevitably burn down, leaving the user to contend with raw file > management. The most obvious example is when uploading a photo to a web > site. It very quickly stops being a "photo" and starts being a "file," > because the only integration we possess with the local system is the > file picker opened by the web browser. > > Two solutions. The bad one everyone seems hung up on is over-engineering > the one, poor, generic file manager so it does everything from rating > music to playing slideshows and paging through PDFs. Don't do that. > > > I've been pondering this issue, poking REALLY cautiously at a dead > simple framework that should accomplish better interconnection between > applications for the end user. > > Going against common sense, I'll post a link to some early ponderings... > http://docs.google.com/Presentation?id=dgv4sbqn_23857c92hg > > The reason I'm poking carefully is because it feels too trivial and I'm > afraid of building "yet another component framework" or a bizarre clone > of drag & drop without the dragging. The plan is to plug in to what > exists today for most types of data, allowing for seamless transition to > awesomeness with very little extra infrastructure. It's really more > about the design philosophy. > > My writing skills today are seriously broken, so I'll leave it to that > little slideshow thing. Basically, I'm thinking of a framework and UI > toolkit stuff that lets an application say "I provide content" or "I > take content". This way applications could better interconnect, for > example with nice context-sensitive application choosers. Opening a file > from an application? Get a list of applications to browse for that file > with. No more clicks than with a generic file manager, though > considerably more logical. For example, the user may want a photo, so he > chooses to open a photo and conveniently has the option to find said > photo with F-Spot, or gThumb, or whatever application he had "stored it > in" to begin with. > > It's about glue. It has to work both ways and it must be applied in lots > more places. You can't have a towering menu and call that sufficient > gluing, even if we do have drag and drop:) > > > On the other hand, this also suggests that I think calling GNOME Shell > "the shell" is somewhat flawed. The underlying philosophy with Calcium, > no matter where it goes, is that /everything/ is the shell. (Hence the > name; shells have a lot of calcium. There, if it has a pun THAT great, > it must be awesome!). > > When an application is added to the system, it is an addition to the > shell. Rhythmbox's music library should be no less a part of the shell > than Nautilus or the GTK file chooser. It abstracts the storage of > files, in this case music, allowing the user to choose them for some > purpose. If we can accomplish that type of seamless, smooth bridge > between everything, users will never need to think "files" unless they > want to. > > > Bye, > Dylan > > > PS: > Sorry, my homework-fatigued brain thinks this message may be a complete > jumble. Hope it isn't too bad... > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > > --001636c5c2424ec8570469081ffb Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What you are proposing would require the apps to expose their capabilities = (maybe through Dbus) and luckily there's a GSOC project on that line, s= o the base will be there if needed.

2009/= 5/3 Dylan McCall <dylanmccall@gmail.com>
> While ideall= y I tend to think users should not have to care about
> applications, but only about content, i.e. documents, people, websites=
> and so on, I fear we've not tackled many issues with that approach= . I
> think we really have applications that have the status of first-class<= br> > objects: think of Rhythmbox, F-Spot, Evolution, even Firefox and
> possibly OpenOffice.org.
>
> These applications can be used to work with a collection of contents,<= br> > and we're not going to fill the recent documents list with e-mails= ,
> music tracks or photos. You could make them be a single meta-document<= br> > called "Music Library", "E-Mails" or so, maybe, th= at's a debate.
>
> Designs about that are welcome! But IMHO that's not so easy to rep= lace
> without losing functionalities, and would require a complete redesign = of
> our desktop conception (we're here to do so!).

My thought on this is that the desktop has the need to be both document
and application-centric at the same time, where some tasks require
different kinds of workflows. A basic example is that a game is thought
of as an application that the user directly executes. Another example is that a shell like F-Spot, Evolution, Banshee or Nautilus is
application-centric; you open it to get at documents.

An issue right now that hurts the document-centric approach is that
applications are only really presented in one way (the towering
Applications menu, which can quickly become a monstrosity since every
application is in it). Further, there is nothing to help the user move
content between them. In fairness, I have yet to see a system that
does /better/; everything is equally bad at it.

There are a few feeble pipes like drag and drop, and the file chooser
widget in any UI toolkit, but nothing fully functional. In the process
of getting a document from one place to another, the abstraction we have will inevitably burn down, leaving the user to contend with raw file
management. The most obvious example is when uploading a photo to a web
site. It very quickly stops being a "photo" and starts being a &q= uot;file,"
because the only integration we possess with the local system is the
file picker opened by the web browser.

Two solutions. The bad one everyone seems hung up on is over-engineering the one, poor, generic file manager so it does everything from rating
music to playing slideshows and paging through PDFs. Don't do that.


I've been pondering this issue, poking REALLY cautiously at a dead
simple framework that should accomplish better interconnection between
applications for the end user.

Going against common sense, I'll post a link to some early ponderings..= .
http://docs.google.com/Presentation?id=3Ddgv4sbqn_23857c92h= g

The reason I'm poking carefully is because it feels too trivial and I&#= 39;m
afraid of building "yet another component framework" or a bizarre= clone
of drag & drop without the dragging. The plan is to plug in to what
exists today for most types of data, allowing for seamless transition to awesomeness with very little extra infrastructure. It's really more
about the design philosophy.

My writing skills today are seriously broken, so I'll leave it to that<= br> little slideshow thing. Basically, I'm thinking of a framework and UI toolkit stuff that lets an application say "I provide content" or= "I
take content". This way applications could better interconnect, for example with nice context-sensitive application choosers. Opening a file from an application? Get a list of applications to browse for that file
with. No more clicks than with a generic file manager, though
considerably more logical. For example, the user may want a photo, so he chooses to open a photo and conveniently has the option to find said
photo with F-Spot, or gThumb, or whatever application he had "stored i= t
in" to begin with.

It's about glue. It has to work both ways and it must be applied in lot= s
more places. You can't have a towering menu and call that sufficient gluing, even if we do have drag and drop:)


On the other hand, this also suggests that I think calling GNOME Shell
"the shell" is somewhat flawed. The underlying philosophy with Ca= lcium,
no matter where it goes, is that /everything/ is the shell. (Hence the
name; shells have a lot of calcium. There, if it has a pun THAT great,
it must be awesome!).

When an application is added to the system, it is an addition to the
shell. Rhythmbox's music library should be no less a part of the shell<= br> than Nautilus or the GTK file chooser. It abstracts the storage of
files, in this case music, allowing the user to choose them for some
purpose. If we can accomplish that type of seamless, smooth bridge
between everything, users will never need to think "files" unless= they
want to.


Bye,
Dylan


PS:
Sorry, my homework-fatigued brain thinks this message may be a complete
jumble. Hope it isn't too bad...

_______________________________________________
gnome-shell-list mailing list
gnome-shell-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list


--001636c5c2424ec8570469081ffb-- From dylanmccall@gmail.com Sun May 3 20:54:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DB0E7500C8 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 20:54:10 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 3326 hrs), (distance 13, link: (Google 2)), [209.85.200.169] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yl2nJggYztB7 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 20:54:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.169]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E31EB7500AE for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 20:53:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so2675948wff.9 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:in-reply-to :references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer; bh=gRikG8YfT1kX/Rc6ZvUU7Vewxwi7fA1Lj8xNh3zuqvU=; b=lbN+BwgThe6v4fUXj1atFU1t2BfPQ2k0Ig3nZTl4L9UnWrTe/QdwI+KD+Fj7MHQiga KPuSZtySUEE+cRCYuy1jR7AmXATVAivY2j+NTQvi+xVA1v6cEWFJLAhzp9GDtT+HdW40 JaFlFV3ksM6jQaUT/TGYhINWJLrAgIFNYAPIg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id :mime-version:x-mailer; b=X6Z4OYXrKyzjC7aitQnS9RnNHxuAt08XxGHV0pzRyQtxCNXMMe92Yn8Ddw30BetoF4 7e+heCa3dMB+Pdoz12CnyaCxxpC+ykQoZ1PSzpl8P/KrchXpDRQxSqjLzPViM/CG/FYX 8kdXckx02lfO4Df/TQ2KN/ax6EZV7YHXKhPls= Received: by 10.142.79.17 with SMTP id c17mr1783239wfb.259.1241384033732; Sun, 03 May 2009 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.120? (d154-20-163-164.bchsia.telus.net [154.20.163.164]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 30sm12244062wfd.1.2009.05.03.13.53.52 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 03 May 2009 13:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Subtracting workspaces From: Dylan McCall To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <7a7e682b0905030937s5b67f582ia10eed750df77be2@mail.gmail.com> References: <8103.77289.qm@web32405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <939dd5750905030854w273d93d3m923ac25cf25c71a3@mail.gmail.com> <7a7e682b0905030937s5b67f582ia10eed750df77be2@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-d/zNpJB9aacKN8p13oxA" Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 13:53:50 -0700 Message-Id: <1241384030.29226.2.camel@dylan-laptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 20:54:10 -0000 --=-d/zNpJB9aacKN8p13oxA Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 2009-05-03 at 19:37 +0300, Anton Kerezov wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 6:54 PM, William Jon McCann > wrote: > =20 > =20 > One problem with that approach is that it doesn't allow us to > default > to having only one workspace. And I think we really do want > only one > by default. >=20 > I have to say that this is in no way suggested to the user because > over 70% of the overlay is taken up by workspaces stuff. If we want to > encourage the usage of one workspace then the overlay should be > "filled" with other stuff. That, and it should be easier to close them. Clicking right in the middle of a workspace to close it really makes no sense. There should be a close button in a corner of each workspace at all times. Its position could come from language direction or from the window button configuration (if a close button is present in it). Bye, Dylan --=-d/zNpJB9aacKN8p13oxA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkn+BFoACgkQH38fupNe5Xr2gACcC4lFQidOW1YmN+z/PZ6oHims nvkAn0M8701BEK3i6ffO5Cl999fa96XJ =CzV0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-d/zNpJB9aacKN8p13oxA-- From dylanmccall@gmail.com Sun May 3 21:00:04 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0981D7501DC for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 21:00:04 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 3327 hrs), (distance 13, link: (Google 2)), [209.85.200.171] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RaJ-prU3zZxA for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 20:59:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.171]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 828077500C8 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 20:59:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so2677450wff.9 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 13:59:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:in-reply-to :references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer; bh=NG9bCAPReHcfuNR0lyrTGzNoNKkrhSjbfSMuC+/RDK0=; b=x8ohukWZrZrFwqM2rQiB324oJWAyLUCrEyl0G9JXlZWCpZ1rju0sfzp2/4tQPpof3h iz1UUnMran8Ny035NHf3TJjZCHu/e5mF87p11C8Nl3qtQvVVb/X8pnZeeeAKFOq73+aK opQjudgPJksUMRicGFQ19uG94QY9H0o6ER3ns= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id :mime-version:x-mailer; b=A1rV1N2Xd454/UDuz7EkwY3asoSBUcpQZjCJBT1MzAsXdlYFPICZUDcLDLaSVZLGhe H9zbAzBp7jLfHR8H5KM8GNnhBGbyopn/U/QN2LiELQls5EhHKsaoDegPODTNzEfnJrWd Xx25pH5aC6+CeU35e3juqyWBbYskLlL5yhrbw= Received: by 10.142.132.2 with SMTP id f2mr1795208wfd.100.1241384387326; Sun, 03 May 2009 13:59:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.120? (d154-20-163-164.bchsia.telus.net [154.20.163.164]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 22sm14425257wfg.7.2009.05.03.13.59.45 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 03 May 2009 13:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Overlay improvement From: Dylan McCall To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1240466465.14579.3.camel@aleph.hingston.demon.co.uk> References: <1240466465.14579.3.camel@aleph.hingston.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-AWQo5Qdp1ZOpHRG4pp3n" Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 13:59:45 -0700 Message-Id: <1241384385.29226.6.camel@dylan-laptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 21:00:04 -0000 --=-AWQo5Qdp1ZOpHRG4pp3n Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 2009-04-23 at 07:01 +0100, Mike Bursell wrote: > Just took a new build, and I have to say the overlay now looks much > better. I think it's the change from a black screen to a proper > wallpaper, yes? Well, the text accompanying the icons also looks much > better, thanks. >=20 > -Mike. I'd just like to recommend something else to go with this change. Now the workspace previews also have the background of each workspace visible. Major information overload, especially when it's the same image we have behind the overlay. It could look a lot sleeker if the workspace previews go without any background images :) (Although with different backgrounds per workspace, it could be missed... but one of the two has to go). Thanks, Dylan --=-AWQo5Qdp1ZOpHRG4pp3n Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkn+BcEACgkQH38fupNe5Xqt3ACdFaeRtJtPoLhfD4A95FgeMvDN qDkAn0HdYicpbeJpmp5LYsWBhLLuQecl =97v2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-AWQo5Qdp1ZOpHRG4pp3n-- From alex.anthony28991@googlemail.com Sun May 3 21:04:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35B3D7500AE for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 21:04:36 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 1518 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d9v7rSd4Egmf for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 21:04:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 286BA750070 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 21:04:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so3115200ewy.15 for ; Sun, 03 May 2009 14:04:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:cc :in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version :x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VWGon5KtV7JS2QarqMN6amR0YoEQz/PMQlx/NHx+1MY=; b=ARK3N9uyLPnobKl2Azd9H81ymwD6zKqbhY2LOx60FgwGOV9DqQYrfqWknGgF9CJgpc MRjk1lcFt0512Hg70KTyR9fGGAYkLMhsJrEOxQaLGnFsPpPjgD9UTZw1LQxwTSz0sYMq K/8IUcK0wzzbV+wurH01iCARpW2Lar49Ui1vY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date :message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=AmHsTuhU+ex6sJYg091LbLuA3ASIT79VpkLbL5CgtfIQHy1pIeTj4nl7rrnCMga+7Y Kmwb5yuqGb/cZcE4ixrRdIY6CDmLjeisWhDwqwhiJBxnxam5J6vqryrGMYJ0Nv2v+XRR IrjaUiPIdwZaRbI0/zSXc/C+Ci8FORnmLGc+0= Received: by 10.210.143.9 with SMTP id q9mr1960456ebd.73.1241384656707; Sun, 03 May 2009 14:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.0.4? ([92.10.162.242]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 22sm6273394ewy.40.2009.05.03.14.04.15 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 03 May 2009 14:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary From: Alex Anthony To: Dylan McCall In-Reply-To: <1241382271.10815.174.camel@dylan-laptop> References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241370735.8657.7.camel@milan> <1241382271.10815.174.camel@dylan-laptop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 22:04:10 +0100 Message-Id: <1241384650.5915.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: shell list X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 21:04:36 -0000 El dom, 03-05-2009 a las 13:24 -0700, Dylan McCall escribió: > On the other hand, this also suggests that I think calling GNOME Shell > "the shell" is somewhat flawed. The underlying philosophy with Calcium, > no matter where it goes, is that /everything/ is the shell. (Hence the > name; shells have a lot of calcium. There, if it has a pun THAT great, > it must be awesome!). Want it to be a fd.o standard? Call it FileKit. Sorry, had to say it. But it does have the sort of standard interaction ring to it. > > When an application is added to the system, it is an addition to the > shell. Rhythmbox's music library should be no less a part of the shell > than Nautilus or the GTK file chooser. It abstracts the storage of > files, in this case music, allowing the user to choose them for some > purpose. If we can accomplish that type of seamless, smooth bridge > between everything, users will never need to think "files" unless they > want to. Is there a library for each type of file? Which is metadata indexed? Which is similar to a new windows concept I believe, but we can do it properly. Also, how does it get presented at the start to the user? Alex From joehill@teksavvy.com Sun May 3 21:07:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82B17500AE for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 21:07:13 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [16384:49:1:48:M1460,S,E:P:?:?], (link: ethernet/modem), [206.248.154.182] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f9uL9j1bivQJ for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 21:07:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com (ironport2-out.pppoe.ca [206.248.154.182]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12BFB7500C8 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 21:06:57 +0000 (GMT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEANuj/UnO+Kw2/2dsb2JhbADLWoN9BYVH X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.40,288,1238990400"; d="scan'208";a="37932920" Received: from 206-248-172-54.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO localhost) ([206.248.172.54]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 03 May 2009 17:06:53 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B593928009 for ; Sun, 3 May 2009 17:06:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 17:06:51 -0400 From: JoeHill To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary? Message-ID: <20090503170651.094e4d2d@teksavvy.com> In-Reply-To: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.1 (GTK+ 2.16.1; i486-pc-linux-gnu) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 21:07:15 -0000 Alex Anthony wrote: > A little idea I had for some (in some cases quite major) changes to > Gnome shell. They probably go against everything already discussed, but > there might be something about it that you like. And it doesn't address > the remaining design questions. > > Anyway here's the link: > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/ApplicationsUnnecessary I would hope that this is something that would be configurable. Applications are very important to some people, especially when it comes to media files. I almost always want to choose which application I want to open video files, and even text files I often want to choose between two appications that I use. -- J From ankere@gmail.com Mon May 4 08:01:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7236C750180 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 08:01:16 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 390 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I3nkNoobX+cW for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 08:01:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A092775013A for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 08:00:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so3268011fxm.15 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 01:00:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=d5LNKKqN2/0VirKxohfKc5tF+4mv12hHYsc/EqoWvw0=; b=aU6A3BOqQAoDEb0bjbuY1ziKKJ6u3AgPgSt+OMQSuCaJMjb2Bt1bwIE/3YXjIKYJZT b15BPYqr4rD7oqzWk1ZduvRFiA4LD0wGQbmDM9SB6ohO3c0UrwZqOi8922hVBV2/CAkM WqKSd/VbqZ9YyG7rxT146gPXFWLhVlS8IzJYk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=NEoa/Kldiz5/u5cvZskSKBSpL4/KvyRyuvEfIF3V1CiMTKtMuxy1AIU5gmrry4OULB L4+5tmz0tdUNQdHs8WIhSWhewilkhgy2bPHAAkOK9k0LAlk/Eyr4cBoumg5iBVy6FFou 77XrBNuBVQalYWNGwSC4cz4kQY0Js1d4kySvc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.102.228.10 with SMTP id a10mr3282609muh.26.1241424056841; Mon, 04 May 2009 01:00:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <753bbf8f0905031318o584812a4w8dc689326b5edf5f@mail.gmail.com> References: <753bbf8f0905031318o584812a4w8dc689326b5edf5f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 11:00:56 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905040100y4061cc9ao90816e35b89bc815@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Good read From: Anton Kerezov To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Ric=F3n?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016363ba6acec7ad60469118fe0 Cc: Gnome List X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 08:01:17 -0000 --0016363ba6acec7ad60469118fe0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2009/5/3 Jos=E9 Luis Ric=F3n > http://fredmorcos.blogspot.com/2008/06/gnome-in-age-of-decadence.html , > specially the "Document centric" part. > Very good read all of it. Is there any chnace to have at least 50% percent of this done for gnome 3.0? --=20 A.K. --0016363ba6acec7ad60469118fe0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2009/5/3 Jos=E9 Luis Ric=F3n <artirj@gmail.com>
http://fredmorcos.blogspot.com/2008/06/gnome-in-ag= e-of-decadence.html , specially the "Document centric" part.<= br>


Very good read all of it. Is there any chnace to = have at least 50% percent of this done for gnome 3.0?


--
A.K.
--0016363ba6acec7ad60469118fe0-- From mike@hingston.demon.co.uk Mon May 4 09:29:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF6657501E5 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 09:29:23 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.203 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (NAT!) (up: 1619 hrs), (distance 20, link: BT DSL (?)), [62.49.20.84] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6B-OMh8PSCRd for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 09:29:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from charlotte.hingston.demon.co.uk (hingston.demon.co.uk [62.49.20.84]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF6B87501F4 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 09:29:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [89.193.232.156] (helo=[10.44.125.123]) by charlotte.hingston.demon.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1M0uU5-0002PT-B6; Mon, 04 May 2009 10:29:15 +0100 From: "Mike Bursell" To: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9zw6kgTHVpcyBSaWPDs24=?= Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 10:29:57 +0100 Message-ID: <46RZZTtHjMK8.sPDRzfyj@hingston.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: EPOC Email Version 2.10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: i-default Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mike Bursell List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 09:29:24 -0000 I worry about the "applications unnecessary" view. One problem, as pointed = out elsewhere, is that I may often wish to open a file with various = different apps: the GIMP to edit a photo, f-spot to categorise it, nautilus = to view it.=20 Worse, what if I want want to start a new email, or document, or eclipse = project or subversion repository or unison sync or ...? There seem to be = lots of tasks that aren't centred around existing files, where templating = would just lead to an explosion of files (and do I want to open a text doc = in the gnome editor, openoffice or emacs?). -Mike. -original message- Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary From: Jos=C3=A9 Luis Ric=C3=B3n Date: 03/05/2009 9:48 pm What you are proposing would require the apps to expose their = capabilities (maybe through Dbus) and luckily there's a GSOC project on that line, so = the base will be there if needed. 2009/5/3 Dylan McCall > > While ideally I tend to think users should not have to care about > > applications, but only about content, i.e. documents, people, = websites > > and so on, I fear we've not tackled many issues with that approach. = I > > think we really have applications that have the status of = first-class > > objects: think of Rhythmbox, F-Spot, Evolution, even Firefox and > > possibly OpenOffice.org. > > > > These applications can be used to work with a collection of = contents, > > and we're not going to fill the recent documents list with = e-mails, > > music tracks or photos. You could make them be a single = meta-document > > called "Music Library", "E-Mails" or so, maybe, that's a debate. > > > > Designs about that are welcome! But IMHO that's not so easy to = replace > > without losing functionalities, and would require a complete redesign = of > > our desktop conception (we're here to do so!). > > My thought on this is that the desktop has the need to be both = document > and application-centric at the same time, where some tasks require > different kinds of workflows. A basic example is that a game is = thought > of as an application that the user directly executes. Another example = is > that a shell like F-Spot, Evolution, Banshee or Nautilus is > application-centric; you open it to get at documents. > > An issue right now that hurts the document-centric approach is that > applications are only really presented in one way (the towering > Applications menu, which can quickly become a monstrosity since = every > application is in it). Further, there is nothing to help the user = move > content between them. In fairness, I have yet to see a system that > does /better/; everything is equally bad at it. > > There are a few feeble pipes like drag and drop, and the file = chooser > widget in any UI toolkit, but nothing fully functional. In the = process > of getting a document from one place to another, the abstraction we = have > will inevitably burn down, leaving the user to contend with raw = file > management. The most obvious example is when uploading a photo to a = web > site. It very quickly stops being a "photo" and starts being a = "file," > because the only integration we possess with the local system is = the > file picker opened by the web browser. > > Two solutions. The bad one everyone seems hung up on is = over-engineering > the one, poor, generic file manager so it does everything from = rating > music to playing slideshows and paging through PDFs. Don't do that. > > > I've been pondering this issue, poking REALLY cautiously at a dead > simple framework that should accomplish better interconnection = between > applications for the end user. > > Going against common sense, I'll post a link to some early = ponderings... > http://docs.google.com/Presentation?id=3Ddgv4sbqn_23857c92hg > > The reason I'm poking carefully is because it feels too trivial and = I'm > afraid of building "yet another component framework" or a bizarre = clone > of drag & drop without the dragging. The plan is to plug in to what > exists today for most types of data, allowing for seamless transition = to > awesomeness with very little extra infrastructure. It's really more > about the design philosophy. > > My writing skills today are seriously broken, so I'll leave it to = that > little slideshow thing. Basically, I'm thinking of a framework and = UI > toolkit stuff that lets an application say "I provide content" or = "I > take content". This way applications could better interconnect, for > example with nice context-sensitive application choosers. Opening a = file > from an application? Get a list of applications to browse for that = file > with. No more clicks than with a generic file manager, though > considerably more logical. For example, the user may want a photo, so = he > chooses to open a photo and conveniently has the option to find = said > photo with F-Spot, or gThumb, or whatever application he had "stored = it > in" to begin with. > > It's about glue. It has to work both ways and it must be applied in = lots > more places. You can't have a towering menu and call that = sufficient > gluing, even if we do have drag and drop:) > > > On the other hand, this also suggests that I think calling GNOME = Shell > "the shell" is somewhat flawed. The underlying philosophy with = Calcium, > no matter where it goes, is that /everything/ is the shell. (Hence = the > name; shells have a lot of calcium. There, if it has a pun THAT = great, > it must be awesome!). > > When an application is added to the system, it is an addition to = the > shell. Rhythmbox's music library should be no less a part of the = shell > than Nautilus or the GTK file chooser. It abstracts the storage of > files, in this case music, allowing the user to choose them for = some > purpose. If we can accomplish that type of seamless, smooth bridge > between everything, users will never need to think "files" unless = they > want to. > > > Bye, > Dylan > > > PS: > Sorry, my homework-fatigued brain thinks this message may be a = complete > jumble. Hope it isn't too bad... > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > > _______________________________________________ gnome-shell-list mailing list gnome-shell-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list From fosslistmail@googlemail.com Mon May 4 10:34:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8DB67500AE for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 10:34:18 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 3462 hrs), (distance 13, link: (Google 2)), [209.85.200.175] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vw0rCiQuNpS4 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 10:34:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.175]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 665F775008B for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 10:34:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 28so2972568wff.9 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 03:34:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vCAdxxZTIDCxh5RuJKQi5a8kmI3JvA4nR30ekqR6Tvo=; b=Qs/B3Ka5ELxIOgDc40EwrmjM7Kq0MMM7tOdWsYfj/UFvRuRYTvk/Pxn3+Lf5USYHMh J2SXQhutBLUf7iP2e9gZMICdGF/TDpQ9H8v3Y8uhq3skjlQHphkuBE18usseQVBuRE4c QrjnxdHBywOiMuJEm2xbLzWH/BZz+CBgr1pro= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=efEa+EaXc5VrKWznPDvxLqLthWAbq/ElrS5IpyvuHPIs77JD0PUCmuNXFxCAhXITjT SQ9I6ls3/8l5LBEMkMA6us+raAtZU6ZRgmuL2gOmSAbwaKSOYy5brf9mv6FzU/pRJv1X 7aDBsi5yaEhnYj4c4/3St5U4OxQN5ZEEnC41Y= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.237.20 with SMTP id k20mr2143816wfh.8.1241433240041; Mon, 04 May 2009 03:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 18:34:00 +0800 Message-ID: <2b0573450905040333i711d5b37n1760e9dac1ff68da@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Is hardware accelerated 3D necessary? From: "foss[ilized]" To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 10:34:19 -0000 I took a look at the sceencasts. While I understand that gnome-shell is a work-in-progress, my initial concern is that the zooming effects would not work on a typical multi-user Linux system. Hardware accelerated 3D on Linux appears to be a single-user affair at the moment. Only one logged-in user at a time can use 3D acceleration (see for example discussions like the one on the DRI-Users mailing list: http://marc.info/?t=119413177000001&r=1&w=2). From alex.anthony28991@googlemail.com Mon May 4 10:39:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A0B575000A for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 10:39:22 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.522 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_SV=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 1653 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2heMWmxMWGDk for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 10:39:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7000C7500AE for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 10:39:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so3396356ewy.15 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 03:39:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:cc :in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version :x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uOOkInRcZxLp9k+XlAGwYdCHqE6SvqlxTpqAJD20LBs=; b=oSzXs8CL+bJI6Z6AiXeoXoEwcyJP1NOAt1fhFhUrnv34tkD6I1WsZ35nUVGh72WW7G juwLD/WPe61EB6zgKE+w2NI/nGlTJPxLbmWYB2keOGaVCZfPs8Thv0/s8uWyYcjtXrFW clZd02XelaAyK+d+zuD52PDObClbOoNXa/eGg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date :message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=jMRahy75UxipOqpbiOKqIV9I6Pl0Tt9vhMBndDbYqv7FzTWnKDz5718cZMvdAxbTm0 Wcntt9jrzwMqmjVOxNj9TK7TrJE4lCvstqqlunfmTUeoblEbgN/pYL56vBwdVMxnYIwo 55uRxsPZxoG3OigSeCsd/thEEm/3JYa7+aaoQ= Received: by 10.210.133.19 with SMTP id g19mr1377061ebd.39.1241433543123; Mon, 04 May 2009 03:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.0.4? ([92.10.162.242]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 18sm7266432ewy.93.2009.05.04.03.39.02 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 04 May 2009 03:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary From: Alex Anthony To: Mike Bursell In-Reply-To: <46RZZTtHjMK8.sPDRzfyj@hingston.demon.co.uk> References: <46RZZTtHjMK8.sPDRzfyj@hingston.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 11:39:02 +0100 Message-Id: <1241433542.6445.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: shell list X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 10:39:22 -0000 El lun, 04-05-2009 a las 10:29 +0100, Mike Bursell escribió: > I worry about the "applications unnecessary" view. One problem, as pointed out elsewhere, is that I > may often wish to open a file with various different apps: the GIMP to edit a photo, f-spot to > categorise it, nautilus to view it. But we could offer the options edit a photo, view a photo etc, but make the fact that they are being done by different applications invisible to the user. And if an application offers 2 or more tasks, they get presented as 2 or more tasks, not just 1 app as they are now. What are the main things that we do with files? Create/Edit and View. > Worse, what if I want want to start a new email, or document, or eclipse project or > subversion repository or unison sync or ...? There seem to be lots of tasks that > aren't centred around existing files, where templating would just lead to an > explosion of files (and do I want to open a text doc in the gnome editor, openoffice or emacs?). We'd only have to offer a menu with different mimetypes. Plain text opens in gedit, rich text opens in openoffice. The mechanism for deciding is the same as deciding if an existing text doc opens in gedit or openoffice. I don't think that templating is a bad thing. And the templates could be managed in a most frequently used system. And "advanced" ones, such as a svn repo, could be hidden with an option to activate them. Alex From jhs@jsschmid.de Mon May 4 11:11:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 703F07500AE for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 11:11:05 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) (up: 5439 hrs), (distance 21, link: ethernet/modem), [85.214.61.233] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W8YFGzssTQ5Q for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 11:10:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from jsschmid.de (jsschmid.de [85.214.61.233]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C876B75008B for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 11:10:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [192.168.1.139] (ppp-88-217-100-208.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.100.208]) by jsschmid.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C252A21A81B2; Mon, 4 May 2009 11:10:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Is hardware accelerated 3D necessary? From: Johannes Schmid To: "foss[ilized]" In-Reply-To: <2b0573450905040333i711d5b37n1760e9dac1ff68da@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b0573450905040333i711d5b37n1760e9dac1ff68da@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-o/XwrKKdOeR/2EaSzJEt" Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 13:10:44 +0200 Message-Id: <1241435444.4414.3.camel@Obelix> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 11:11:05 -0000 --=-o/XwrKKdOeR/2EaSzJEt Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! Am Montag, den 04.05.2009, 18:34 +0800 schrieb foss[ilized]: > I took a look at the sceencasts. While I understand that gnome-shell > is a work-in-progress, my initial concern is that the zooming effects > would not work on a typical multi-user Linux system. gnome-shell won't work if you don't have accelerated 3D. Most hardware build in the last 5 years will have enough 3D capabilites to run it when you have appropriate drivers. If you don't have 3D you won't be able to run gnome-shell. When you have a look at the mailing list archive you will find that this has been discussion. In the end, 3D is state-of-the-art and making a 2D fallback is not worth the effort. You can still use gnome-panel then. > Hardware accelerated 3D on Linux appears to be a single-user affair at > the moment. Only one logged-in user at a time can use 3D acceleration > (see for example discussions like the one on the DRI-Users mailing > list: http://marc.info/?t=3D119413177000001&r=3D1&w=3D2). Well, I think for fast-user-switching this can certainly be fixed somehow in X11 because there is only one "real" user active. Regards, Johannes --=-o/XwrKKdOeR/2EaSzJEt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkn+zTEACgkQAvZZn2XJ+bNd/wCfTuCeqo5PIyf99B4yNdbfp0k4 DicAnib3Ok+Ht2Q3K/pXb4uctHex/lFU =RiM9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-o/XwrKKdOeR/2EaSzJEt-- From tiagomatos@gmail.com Mon May 4 11:47:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A9F475002E for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 11:47:49 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 3939 hrs), (distance 17, link: (Google 2)), [72.14.220.155] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7a0APiRVHyn0 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 11:47:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.155]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEB1F7500AE for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 11:47:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so1379246fga.10 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 04:47:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=cCyg2UlhaFSbQmk7xg91BDgW6Ix3pot0Y4QWkTABZDI=; b=m+aMMC7odAJss06xyvVe0VqUk0J/6ROucq7XZ7LKNozFTGWn9S8EkZxIMBnRZHCePj wFrMUyPRCYyjHatGRbQTsnlUWB1dryLtix0ZOsXwQWcD+KNC19r6FXovmV8Hm0EARnge Vzc7rAieRv89J8brEsnGvOYMmkZ0mGg5J5jSo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Sztf0GE4xd6FORfECJ21yjsGBea99gwjJEfmcQ8L1+uNWU3v29Q8qVXRM2uAG+yUmN N9k7yHMADP7F/+eFq0A3EZNcUToPp6NqazVZIPfCwhp7sM92IH9gs5HCsaxrGHV0CO0t Im8/36dleyA6vFXUOgAtfITEoRmihnIWygLxw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.33.9 with SMTP id g9mr2028788fgg.66.1241437651115; Mon, 04 May 2009 04:47:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2b0573450905040333i711d5b37n1760e9dac1ff68da@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b0573450905040333i711d5b37n1760e9dac1ff68da@mail.gmail.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Rui_Tiago_Ca=C3=A7=C3=A3o_Matos?= Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 12:47:16 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Is hardware accelerated 3D necessary? To: "foss[ilized]" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 11:47:49 -0000 2009/5/4 foss[ilized] : > Hardware accelerated 3D on Linux appears to be a single-user affair at > the moment. Only one logged-in user at a time can use 3D acceleration > (see for example discussions like the one on the DRI-Users mailing > list: http://marc.info/?t=119413177000001&r=1&w=2). The new kernel/X/DRI2/DRM/Mesa architecture "fixes" all this[1]. Also, the nvidia proprietary driver stack doesn't have that problem. Rui [1] http://keithp.com/blogs/Sharpening_the_Intel_Driver_Focus/ btw, this new architecture will benefit not only intel, but also at least, the radeon and nouveau drivers. From gregknicholson@gmail.com Mon May 4 13:19:50 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D84A7750068 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 13:19:50 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 443 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VQRvINETQRvh for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 13:19:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B44E75008B for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 13:19:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so3441664fxm.15 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 06:19:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cYINveR7sk4ysKx1aBkPX+jZirNSn8c2NJWu70tJiZA=; b=gwhsAHlpNtB0+i2TqzbWpVWj7760rzaE4qpyC2paQqpddyvHQyovflMr/4dkuRZXbX MZruk1/LoZZF4GdRUnpGq+Fa2WqRncA26uS4CywXhtEBem4TdhUCGbz7l9aaC07HTUUx uMGar/NMaMoaREuQFEKd8UoQEq2SpOrT/0XZg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=vERzwMHmSjEDw/i6JTfQS4T+4QP4Yoo1/z9AeRIXVwkHXxUnhXmIWeUiBbCB8EyyU6 N9j+cB2e9dvGyYl136blGyuotJ1oS//JLHlAke4/xBTVqaeBTXcfGImond4zpqQMUM9z 8RST1DoQsco+mY8YPQBjiC/AhjNLmcGkuV76E= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gregknicholson@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.114.136 with SMTP id e8mr5717039bkq.190.1241443173211; Mon, 04 May 2009 06:19:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1241370735.8657.7.camel@milan> References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241370735.8657.7.camel@milan> Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 14:19:33 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: f6e90cdde35dd790 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary? From: Greg K Nicholson To: Milan Bouchet-Valat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 13:19:51 -0000 > and we're not going to fill the recent documents list with e-mails, > music tracks or photos. You could make them be a single meta-document > called "Music Library", "E-Mails" or so, maybe, that's a debate. Why is there a Recent documents list but no Relevant documents list? Firefox's awesome-bar/frecency work gets this right, and I can imagine a very similar thing applied Gnome-wide. As a direct solution to your problem, documents *I* create could have a frecency score multiplier, to bring them to the top of the most-relevant list above web pages and music tracks. From gregknicholson@gmail.com Mon May 4 14:02:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7940875008B for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 14:02:48 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 450 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Mm7PIY1lJCp for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 14:02:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1923D750068 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 14:02:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so3469313fxm.15 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 07:02:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1BkwbLe3Lm2V5pZEpqlu0ltFpwI3j7vYDA0E/en82Jo=; b=T4NsvRmL/QVd6OmOen19dtPfJWyqxnQWh4qv3LD929/I9UngfpCSMiuyBfPelsLTPR yWK9LOB3agto0DRzcZTR/Q16RxZzddoGPjQb7lFI/YI/rlOb4CcWi9qme89TxeR4vkq4 H64riM3J2FoxVka3h7hmKJV0W3iROojZrSYJ4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=BbWxa6GNzD4HDh8iL/j9ojvFRFQwc3eD2IfBdK+a87CaiIrUunYmGaeP36dyHT/wHe 5IpZgynV48lsr8XVQ+Q1Vg9BFtZvF391FySo4rURMiA5D7PAikOosFRAiWXqhwqGtRnM 6RVmgrFG9uSJhmuqpD7kdbLWYGHyyMabKfI6I= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gregknicholson@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.101.2 with SMTP id a2mr5779510bko.104.1241445751370; Mon, 04 May 2009 07:02:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <753bbf8f0905030943g55360e5awa31b94d97b191988@mail.gmail.com> References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <753bbf8f0905030943g55360e5awa31b94d97b191988@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 15:02:31 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8e5dad5c04a3e837 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary? From: Greg K Nicholson To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 14:02:48 -0000 > The good ol' document centric GNOME idea. For each document, there should be a distinct View mode and an Edit mode. We already have this for raster images (Eye of Gnome, GIMP), paged documents (Evince, OOo/Abiword) and possibly others. Then, for each document the user could choose to View or Edit it, rather than =E2=80=9COpen with Eye of Gnome=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9COpen with = GIMP=E2=80=9D. If there's no editor installed, no Edit option would be available. In Edit mode, files should always be automatically and transparently saved, with robust Undo lasting across sessions. (Older versions could appear in Gnome Zeitgeist for deleting or branching.) We shouldn't ask for a filename or location, because we shouldn't need to expose the local filesystem to users. (Obviously, though, we'd need to get a readable filename from somewhere when the file is sent to portable media or a remote system.) The flow would be (1) open existing file or create new file; (2) change file; (3) close file. Ideally, it should be (1) switch display to existing file or new, blank file; (2) change file; optionally (3) switch display to something else. --- I have a much further-reaching idea for abstracting the chrome away from applications and having Gnome handle it instead. Essentially, apps would expose and respond to abstract =E2=80=9Ccommands=E2=80=9D, inste= ad of menus and buttons, and mouse- and keyboard-events. Then the user could choose to have a menu bar; or a command-line=E2=80=93ty= pe interface coupled with a toolbar showing the most relevant commands; or a pop-up display of keyboard shortcuts and no graphical chrome; or command icons on their wirelessly-connected portable device (i.e. a remote control). For the command-line case, each command should have equally-valid synonyms (e.g. in English, Show =3D View =3D Display =3D See); there could be a drop-down showing the gamut of possible commands. [1] Jukebox-type views could be handled as saved Tracker/Beagle/Spotlight=E2=80=93type searches, using filesystem-level metadata instead of a local database (or just using a local database as a cache). This would make play counts, ratings and other stats app-neutral. Coupled with Gnome Zeitgeist, we wouldn't need to expose the file system to users at all. With this model, we wouldn't need to expose application names to the user at all=E2=80=94except in the Preferred Applications dialogue=E2=80=94b= ecause every app would have a consistent UI. --- [1] Aside: =E2=80=9CNormal=E2=80=9D users use command lines every day=E2=80= =94their web browser's location bar or Google's search field. IMO, the Unix- & DOS-like command line is only awkward because: it requires specific vocabulary (=E2=80=9Ccp=E2=80=9D, but not =E2=80=9Ccopy=E2=80=9D or =E2=80= =9Cduplicate=E2=80=9D); and it doesn't simply *ask* for parameters. If you asked me to (sudo) make you a sandwich, I'd *ask* what you wanted in it. I wouldn't say =E2=80=9CNo. For help on sandwich parameters, specify =E2=80=98--help=E2=80=99.=E2=80=9D From mike@hingston.demon.co.uk Mon May 4 14:44:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9861775000B for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 14:44:41 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.522 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_JK=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (NAT!) (up: 1632 hrs), (distance 20, link: BT DSL (?)), [62.49.20.84] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id czDxa4VaVNI3 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 14:44:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from charlotte.hingston.demon.co.uk (hingston.demon.co.uk [62.49.20.84]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C966F75008B for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 14:44:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.0.3.57] by charlotte.hingston.demon.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1M0zPK-0004Ti-SL; Mon, 04 May 2009 15:44:38 +0100 Subject: Re: Breadcrumbs in the panel From: Mike Bursell To: Sander Dijkhuis In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 15:44:14 +0100 Message-Id: <1241448254.9304.1.camel@aleph.hingston.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 14:44:41 -0000 Sander - Loving this. One question: would it be possible to drop down from non-active workspaces? I'd love to be able to move to a window on a non-active workspace without having to go to that workspace first: or at least to be able to _find_ what workspace a window is on without having to cycle through each one. -Mike. On Sun, 2009-05-03 at 20:35 +0200, Sander Dijkhuis wrote: > Thanks for the reactions about the breadcrumbs idea [1]! I tried to implement > parts of it in a separate, experimental Git branch. The code is very ugly and > some things like maximalization, minimalization and urgent windows don't work > well yet, but it might be enough to see if the ideas work. > > Here is a screenshot of how it looks right now: > http://picasaweb.google.com/sander.dijkhuis/GNOMEShell#5331656296470360274 > > Below are the commands to try the branch (edited from Marina's useful list of > Git commands). Only the JavaScript files are changed, so if gnome-shell > currently works for you, this should work too. > > First, navigate to the gnome-shell source directory: > cd ~/gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell > > To add my repository: > git remote add -f sander git://github.com/sander/gnome-shell.git > > To switch to my branch: > git checkout sander/breadcrumbs > > To run gnome-shell from my branch: > src/gnome-shell --replace > > To return to the regular, official branch: > git checkout master > > To get updates from my branch: > git fetch sander > git checkout sander/breadcrumbs > > To remove my repository: > git remote rm sander > > Reporting technical bugs is probably not very useful for now, but I'm > interested to hear about your experiences and ideas. For example, would this > really make task switching slower than the current task bar at the bottom of > the screen does? > > Things that aren't implemented, but would have been if I worked faster: > - Display workspace names ("Workspace 1") in the overlay view. > - Use the same grid layout in the workspace menu as in the overlay view. > - When the mouse cursor hovers over a window title in the menu, highlight that > window, as suggested by Brian Fleeger. > - Show the window dropdown menu when switching windows using Alt-Tab. > - Allow for point-and-scroll at the menus, as suggested by Greg K Nicholson. > - Put the _ [] X buttons of maximized windows in the panel and hide their > title bars. > > There's a Summer of Code project that will (among other things) let > GNOME Shell work with tabs within windows, so that would allow for extending > the breadcrumb trail to "Activities > workspace > window > tab". > > To see how a "maximized" mode should work in my view, try Maximus (used in the > Ubuntu Netbook Remix): https://launchpad.net/maximus > > If anyone wants to experiment further with this code, please email me if the > code is too unstructured or if more explanation is needed. > > [1]: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/BreadcrumbsEtc > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > From dylanmccall@gmail.com Mon May 4 14:44:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 003D175000B for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 14:44:55 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 3984 hrs), (distance 19, link: (Google 2)), [216.239.58.189] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7iff4YoUS4ZA for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 14:44:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gv-out-0910.google.com (gv-out-0910.google.com [216.239.58.189]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03FC075002E for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 14:44:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: by gv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id o2so17454gve.22 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 07:44:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:cc :in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version :x-mailer; bh=wheweEB24mxmqkfBu0BpALjgwJmDeuyrgzyvUHD94NU=; b=JNmjelWckRW6un7h3S5GcyVSsT8CYytFMXERiMWVl7FU5Ro1y3rlDAuxGpym4cvb8a 7Y6vYopX4hJyma0lMkL+C7irnh5dIOMCFDzyWIyu2CiaZrjIrnHgpDtZGm+LlwrTCbf4 3dRN7Pn+ua2/LdUDkPQk76PtANmCGRTwmpDJU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date :message-id:mime-version:x-mailer; b=cnECwpuGWQ1grQX/Ar2/V71hTso+tICHvMwLJb0YnIiEpeKnXTgYVHqcFGRrMKpTkP zOtyqXnpfBTTY68EZk7dJwSpyQJzWUvFu1QKrjMEfPf1GlSPkLZbo8rdGN0etYDUO9mQ zUKnn6vmLqWoOj3bVIktoV8Oj+CI8alMS0wts= Received: by 10.142.132.2 with SMTP id f2mr2113115wfd.309.1241448275271; Mon, 04 May 2009 07:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.120? (d154-20-163-164.bchsia.telus.net [154.20.163.164]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 30sm1026627wfd.1.2009.05.04.07.44.31 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 04 May 2009 07:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary From: Dylan McCall To: Alex Anthony In-Reply-To: <1241384650.5915.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241370735.8657.7.camel@milan> <1241382271.10815.174.camel@dylan-laptop> <1241384650.5915.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-ZSJffmzpWbX6Xq5qKfOD" Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 07:44:30 -0700 Message-Id: <1241448270.5998.57.camel@dylan-laptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Cc: shell list X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 14:44:56 -0000 --=-ZSJffmzpWbX6Xq5qKfOD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 2009-05-03 at 22:04 +0100, Alex Anthony wrote: > El dom, 03-05-2009 a las 13:24 -0700, Dylan McCall escribi=C3=B3: >=20 > > On the other hand, this also suggests that I think calling GNOME Shell > > "the shell" is somewhat flawed. The underlying philosophy with Calcium, > > no matter where it goes, is that /everything/ is the shell. (Hence the > > name; shells have a lot of calcium. There, if it has a pun THAT great, > > it must be awesome!). >=20 > Want it to be a fd.o standard? Call it FileKit. Sorry, had to say it. > But it does have the sort of standard interaction ring to it. > >=20 > > When an application is added to the system, it is an addition to the > > shell. Rhythmbox's music library should be no less a part of the shell > > than Nautilus or the GTK file chooser. It abstracts the storage of > > files, in this case music, allowing the user to choose them for some > > purpose. If we can accomplish that type of seamless, smooth bridge > > between everything, users will never need to think "files" unless they > > want to. >=20 > Is there a library for each type of file? Which is metadata indexed? > Which is similar to a new windows concept I believe, but we can do it > properly. > Also, how does it get presented at the start to the user? >=20 > Alex >=20 I look at this from a slightly different perspective. I think the View / Edit distinction is, while an improvement from the mere "open" we have today, totally arbitrary. It creates unnecessary limitations for the simple purpose of limitations and down the line we'd be adding to that spec "view quickly" "annotate" and "print", because we failed to make it flexible enough. Instead, each application should present each of its tasks with an icon, a description and a name. It's up to that application to be coherent. We rely on a wonderful thing called natural language to explain to the user what is going to happen with the user's content when a task is invoked. For example, "Edit image with GIMP" and "View with Eye of GNOME." It is strangely trivial, but I seriously think (done right) such a system would solve a boatload of usability problems and make developer's lives a lot easier. Granted. the View / Edit distinction saves us from having redundant tools in that list, but then different applications are different so they aren't /really/ redundant. Besides, we'd still need "View with" and "Edit with" for the former. I think applications can easily make sense to an end user; they are tools to accomplish tasks on documents. The problem today is that documents keep turning back in to plain files and applications cannot be accessed smoothly, for example in a context-sensitive way (and when that is the case the best solution is changing on the fly from a document-centric to an application-centric workflow, launching the application then the document from it). Because they get MIME type associations one at a time, applications tend to be monolithic beasts of insanity because they have to do everything one could need done with the file. "But wait, can't you just go to Open With in the context menu in Nautilus?" That's the funny part :) A lot of this is just philosophy. I rarely encounter users who use (or know of) "open with." (I also encounter tons who despise double clicking because it makes no sense at all). Open With right now is treated as a secondary function in a dark corner of a few applications - something we don't really anticipate users wanting. The concept of choosing a tool to use on something should become normal, initiated by a PRIMARY click. The first step is getting a centralized technology that handles the information for such stuff, then the second step is a set of GTK widgets to make the matter consistent and friendly. Bye, Dylan PS: Sorry about changing the subject line :( PPS: "In this case music..." was a miswording. I meant just in the case of my example. Calcium, of course, should be completely generic. Possibly too generic ;) PPPS: Oops. On another note, I wonder what would happen if applications handled creating their own files in the same direction as templates? Instead of "Create spreadsheet" (copied from Templates folder), we could have "Create a file here with Gnumeric," leading from the user clicking on a GTK widget representing a file yet to be created. It's the same process as opening the tool then creating the document, except the user is getting the document /then/ using the tool. --=-ZSJffmzpWbX6Xq5qKfOD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkn+/0kACgkQH38fupNe5XoYeQCfbs4mGUbt9trQ/kQMj1iBJVUO YfoAniW9+kjm+Ksyr+UV3eJ8IHvS3IZ2 =6EAs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-ZSJffmzpWbX6Xq5qKfOD-- From ankere@gmail.com Mon May 4 15:51:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D47CC7500A3 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 15:51:23 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3840 hrs), (distance 17, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.159] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3KuFadqoz-OG for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 15:51:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f159.google.com (mail-bw0-f159.google.com [209.85.218.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9B2075000B for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 15:51:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so3543586bwz.15 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 08:51:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=e8Vt05sDwdM23OArRZIHmQXrSHfV7o7pNb9orEhPS90=; b=sDWk4krQgXoUrmj0j759rmigOIcAIX88mWxOai7wIEA2Two7VXtybkntwNvJh9OrTX eZ4f4VPFNpjKSX+/STQD2K68OJlm0Ng0LbKWWwNozIkgSdsB83jlYJTEHQPy8RdSo2Qq wdZUaD0MpYiZJqscxjTurDUh4T40tzHutG5lo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=hJuJ+rSx8M6aoTxJ1jAGKkJ2L8PMi2D8nderjSvHx9+Lv0UWLB04xPcfKMYmDtz/1G hh0lCs1sjstT3qdgfiGSXZXy6DWgESOz8VNDOmujsiiqcwrcvGjnu+g/mzzCdSADObep /2MUS6SGiFzfEJRmX8lxzJ+XmDTDagMBkFMkw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.173.5 with SMTP id a5mr3660809mup.57.1241452263828; Mon, 04 May 2009 08:51:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <753bbf8f0905030943g55360e5awa31b94d97b191988@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 18:51:03 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905040851w56a343f0o362aa3776f8a59fd@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary? From: Anton Kerezov To: Greg K Nicholson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364177cf30eecd0469182142 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 15:51:24 -0000 --0016364177cf30eecd0469182142 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Greg K Nicholson wrote: > > The good ol' document centric GNOME idea. > > For each document, there should be a distinct View mode and an Edit > mode. We already have this for raster images (Eye of Gnome, GIMP), > paged documents (Evince, OOo/Abiword) and possibly others. > I'm totally for your idea! 1+ I have also proposed in the usability list an idea baout New Menubars. It was discussed a lot and a lot of people have agreed that it should be implemented in some form. Even the research I did on Gnome 3.0 proves this further. Here's the mockup: http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4500/newmenusystem.png -- A.K. --0016364177cf30eecd0469182142 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Greg K N= icholson <greg@gkn.m= e.uk> wrote:
> The good ol' document centric GNOME idea.

For each document, there should be a distinct View mode and an Edit mode. We already have this for raster images (Eye of Gnome, GIMP),
paged documents (Evince, OOo/Abiword) and possibly others.

I'm totally for your idea! 1+

I have also= proposed in the usability list an idea baout New Menubars. It was discusse= d a lot and a lot of people have agreed that it should be implemented in so= me form. Even the research I did on Gnome 3.0 proves this further. Here'= ;s the mockup:

h= ttp://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4500/newmenusystem.png



--
A.K.
--0016364177cf30eecd0469182142-- From gregknicholson@gmail.com Mon May 4 16:28:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 072B975011A for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 16:28:18 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 474 hrs), (distance 18, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zppLdzapaWDx for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 16:28:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2847A75002E for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 16:28:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so3593341fxm.15 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 09:28:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PxaOwlp2T0k2EOhMhWMTM1OzV7HwfiCLsc8HAiCExyY=; b=vGkgm58TyXfeVVb0MS8X/b9bVT8KzVtF1sukvbxJoR8kCdc6U+rDx2siV91zr0/zqM EL/YwFr+Ueac/HxUCYXlaIL9TZgxo/a7wKe4rbL+db0pxkZB3xtKymI3fuufegNaBzmr fdvPx1w20KapTq68EIANIJhTAIxjO4gSklJ3M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=q39Sla7YAhMKwlqPp5WvpdIQg5ruMoc1X1I190Auw1/mp61QS3Emyag3K24sym2Q7m sfAahsMRHAuLik3AJWcCjG0+/+VOERTjjhl9VDKVDR/5HjmnHqSZQRMIT5Sbc2zMniR1 Rp08+kyenRGXG0GVs9ZPQoVJx04ReVgSlLUMk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gregknicholson@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.97.204 with SMTP id m12mr5913793bkn.22.1241454481267; Mon, 04 May 2009 09:28:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1241448270.5998.57.camel@dylan-laptop> References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241370735.8657.7.camel@milan> <1241382271.10815.174.camel@dylan-laptop> <1241384650.5915.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1241448270.5998.57.camel@dylan-laptop> Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 17:28:01 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 14fda784ce71e2e7 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary From: Greg K Nicholson To: Gnome-shell List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 16:28:18 -0000 > PPPS: Oops. On another note, I wonder what would happen if applications > handled creating their own files in the same direction as templates? > Instead of "Create spreadsheet" (copied from Templates folder), we could > have "Create a file here with Gnumeric," leading from the user clicking > on a GTK widget representing a file yet to be created. > It's the same process as opening the tool then creating the document, > except the user is getting the document /then/ using the tool. I like this idea. I think of it as analogous to a =E2=80=9Cnew, blank=E2=80= =9D tab on a tab bar (e.g. Internet Explorer 7; or Google Chrome, Safari 4 and Firefox 3.5 if you styled the New Tab button to look like a normal tab). Wherever you can choose one of several files, you can also always choose a new, blank file of each appropriate type (assuming you have file creation privileges). From gregknicholson@gmail.com Mon May 4 17:34:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18DEB750116 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 17:34:28 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 485 hrs), (distance 18, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rhRpTFLhH2K7 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 17:34:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE55A75000B for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 17:34:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so3640382fxm.15 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 10:34:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OtZfXQb7jGbc166L1w8PLLTcVNTzWIKmiqtCNWhsN/c=; b=ggeiyLsTYVclGjT2ImFvmF6YZaCF3zhErHsRtQ3DtM8/iQ+EXS9APuG/lMFGcqaWE2 kTeASiw1VVpBCNHE3NYU5kmfwaBHCLL6Fgl4+Yg/kzcsAM60GqUbzsb8Gz/Exzy46oWo 5w30/tzb3hyAcS4oDgmmtVUrtqJKxnyOpKlSo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=E/C/Wq1lKyduZvCEtZkYDtgrd4XGVzHqIfXzjgXm0w5qyqy043+hJtV8wiwDb5Z7ul zOw7Wlx1XI3yGeqo7fR6XXrAcv8nYztSAVCjxRmrMs1gw7RTCS/4Sovj1tdy7E9Sp/EF prjQLe/00NKI7OJCHvmoxFTZHBE1jKalXPT4s= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gregknicholson@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.58.79 with SMTP id f15mr5937189bkh.202.1241458446939; Mon, 04 May 2009 10:34:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <753bbf8f0905030943g55360e5awa31b94d97b191988@mail.gmail.com> <7a7e682b0905040851w56a343f0o362aa3776f8a59fd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 18:34:06 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7e0596ea513c0bca Message-ID: Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary? From: Greg K Nicholson To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 17:34:28 -0000 (I believe I sent this to Anton but not the list. Bad Google Mail!=E2=80=94= no cookies for you.): > I have also proposed in the usability list an idea baout New Menubars. It > was discussed a lot and a lot of people have agreed that it should be > implemented in some form. Even the research I did on Gnome 3.0 proves thi= s > further. Here's the mockup: > > http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4500/newmenusystem.png I think this design still fails to either (1) draw a clear distinction between the menu bar and the toolbar=E2=80=94when should I expect something= to be in the toolbar, and when should I expect to use the menu?=E2=80=94or (2) combine them. So there's still duplicated functionality=E2=80=94two different ways to do = the same thing, with no distinct use case for each. As I understand it, toolbar functionality is currently duplicated in the menus because toolbars are inaccessible. There are two solutions to this: (1) Make toolbars accessible and remove duplicate items from the menu. (2) Get rid of toolbars. The first option still leaves no clear distinction between menus' and toolbars' purposes, so I reject it. The second option leaves us with just menus. Try hiding all the toolbars in all the apps you use frequently, and using just the menus. It's not fun. Menus currently suck: everyone avoids thinking about them as much as possible=E2=80=94experienced users know commands' menu locations from memor= y (not logic), or they use keyboard shortcuts. And new users rarely explore the menus because they're too daunting. The main problem, though, is that the menu titles are largely conventional and make absolutely no sense much of the time=E2=80=94for example, Firefox's File menu. Edit =E2=86=92 Copy and Edit =E2=86=92 Prefer= ences both make some sense, but why are they grouped together in one menu? Some menu titles are misleading; for example, in Pidgin's conversation window, Conversation =E2=86=92 View Log is plain wrong=E2=80=94it's the log= of *all* conversations with the contact, not just this one. --- The simple solution: (1) Reorganise all the menus so that the menu name actually relates to each menu item, and all the items in each menu relate to each other (2) Add pretty, friendly icons to each menu title (if you can't draw it, it shouldn't be a menu name) (3) Fold all the menus into the toolbar, as toolbar buttons with expansion-arrows (4) Make the labels of the least important items (the ones at the end of the toolbar) hide if the window isn't wide enough to show them all (5) Require this in the Gnome Human Interface Guidelines Tomboy's note-window interface is a near-perfect example of this in action. (The only nit is that the menu buttons ought to have down-arrows to make it clear that they're menus). Internet Explorer 7 is another good example (though putting the menu in the tab bar is a bit odd=E2=80=94we don't need *that* much location bar). --- Case study: Banshee: * Player menu: Preferences, Close and Quit. * Library menu: most of the current Media menu, Rescan, Download Cover Art. * Playlist menu: Write to CD, Rename, Export, Delete, Select All/None. (disabled when no playlist is either selected or playing) * Track menu: Add to Playlist, Edit Information, Remove from Library, Delete from Drive. (disabled when no track is either selected or playing) * View menu: unchanged. * Playback menu: mostly unchanged, minus items already on the toolbar (including Shuffle); perhaps with the Repeat options shown inline. * Help menu: unchanged. If the Now Playing view is displayed, Track and Playlist should refer to the currently playing track and playlist; otherwise, the selected one. Plugins' menu items (currently under Tools) could either retreat into the Preferences (Last.fm, Mirage), or get their own top-level menu (Bookmarks). The duplicate Repeat options should be removed from the bottom-right of the window. From ankere@gmail.com Mon May 4 18:34:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80473750085 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 18:34:37 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 495 hrs), (distance 18, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QUyBepmSVt8u for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 18:34:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C78D175002E for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 18:34:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so3682100fxm.15 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 11:34:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=qjs6vMXlLHCFRK8/t05WRhP+TdE9F6LCeu3P8Kfk8oM=; b=GurlpCxwn1DgAhMyEKgpPDBHV8/gqVYwduJUV6+bAk4DdJzxevaHg0/Kg6z5X4E2C5 1ZAKCXpTImtBiohvW0YmrNkWfEAsP8ZCSBUcoM8NRANCQureRSOKLq+RMAT5isLmYWkM LT8Yf9Hh7NjPLcMphjXSYwuGqarYTfo4eTsDs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=lCtJUvXNvcsr2FbNYgFCOLUNYAUPAg1HljtgZKLgbNmEmC5a1nwEM+pkXTHtxldeDJ IRDYuMNCLfyYxvmbyyvaAILtcjqZcFFNbj54yltHbaA5SQS8LzZzuuqhA+2WgYYzXyaK x2b7mUMhZM7hPT9wMGGZjelkHAxk0X7JOX8HY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.52.13 with SMTP id e13mr2477960muk.46.1241462055943; Mon, 04 May 2009 11:34:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <753bbf8f0905030943g55360e5awa31b94d97b191988@mail.gmail.com> <7a7e682b0905040851w56a343f0o362aa3776f8a59fd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 21:34:15 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905041134j2995aaecl1f6faa561095afb3@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary? From: Anton Kerezov To: Greg K Nicholson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364166ffd8c03104691a6850 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 18:34:37 -0000 --0016364166ffd8c03104691a6850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:34 PM, Greg K Nicholson wrote: > > > http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4500/newmenusystem.png > > I think this design still fails to either (1) draw a clear distinction > between the menu bar and the toolbar=97when should I expect something to > be in the toolbar, and when should I expect to use the menu?=97or (2) > combine them. > > So there's still duplicated functionality=97two different ways to do the > same thing, with no distinct use case for each. As I understand it, > toolbar functionality is currently duplicated in the menus because > toolbars are inaccessible. There are two solutions to this: > > (1) Make toolbars accessible and remove duplicate items from the menu. > (2) Get rid of toolbars. > This design has not thought of the toolbars but only of the idea to introduce a command line interface but much more intelligent, simle and beautiful than a terminal. Yes there is repeated functionality so I suggest we remove the toolbars because they are rarely used and usually very cluttered (could not represent a specific functianality fast as the CLI). S= o I just thing that we should do (2). You can read more issues/solutions with this approach in the usability archive for the prev month with title New Menubars topic. > The simple solution: > > (1) Reorganise all the menus so that the menu name actually relates to > each menu item, and all the items in each menu relate to each other > That would be good compromise but only a compromise. > > (2) Add pretty, friendly icons to each menu title (if you can't draw > it, it shouldn't be a menu name) > It is like that now and it loks very busy. Icons should appear only for actions that perform operatins on physical devices. > > (3) Fold all the menus into the toolbar, as toolbar buttons with > expansion-arrows > Not good IMO. > > (4) Make the labels of the least important items (the ones at the end > of the toolbar) hide if the window isn't wide enough to show them all > (5) Require this in the Gnome Human Interface Guidelines > Agree here. Anton --0016364166ffd8c03104691a6850 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:34 PM, Greg K N= icholson <greg@gkn.m= e.uk> wrote:

> http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4500/newmenusystem.png=

I think this design still fails to either (1) draw a clear distinction
between the menu bar and the toolbar=97when should I expect something to be in the toolbar, and when should I expect to use the menu?=97or (2)
combine them.

So there's still duplicated functionality=97two different ways to do th= e
same thing, with no distinct use case for each. As I understand it,
toolbar functionality is currently duplicated in the menus because
toolbars are inaccessible. There are two solutions to this:

(1) Make toolbars accessible and remove duplicate items from the menu.
(2) Get rid of toolbars.

This design has n= ot thought of the toolbars but only of the idea to introduce a command line= interface but much more intelligent, simle and beautiful than a terminal. = Yes there is repeated functionality so I suggest we remove the toolbars bec= ause they are rarely used and usually very cluttered (could not represent a= specific functianality fast as the CLI). So I just thing that we should do= (2). You can read more issues/solutions with this approach in the usabilit= y archive for the prev month with title New Menubars topic.



The simple solution:

(1) Reorganise all the menus so that the menu name actually relates to
each menu item, and all the items in each menu relate to each other

That would be good compromise but only a compromi= se.
=A0

(2) Add pretty, friendly icons to each menu title (if you can't draw it, it shouldn't be a menu name)

It is= like that now and it loks very busy. Icons should appear only for actions = that perform operatins on physical devices.
=A0

(3) Fold all the menus into the toolbar, as toolbar buttons with
expansion-arrows

Not good IMO.
=A0
<= /div>

(4) Make the labels of the least important items (the ones at the end
of the toolbar) hide if the window isn't wide enough to show them all (5) Require this in the Gnome Human Interface Guidelines

Agree here.
=A0

Anton
--0016364166ffd8c03104691a6850-- From gregknicholson@gmail.com Mon May 4 18:58:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A404750050 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 18:58:08 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:45:0:60:M1430,S,T,N,W9:.:?:?] (up: 3361 hrs), (link: (Google 2)), [209.85.128.190] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0nOmk0Wexvye for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 18:58:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com (fk-out-0910.google.com [209.85.128.190]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82C92750085 for ; Mon, 4 May 2009 18:57:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id f33so2326055fkf.15 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 11:57:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kXo1tBcRYhhNUeKfR4Liy0rnE8rwlnZP+KALVEDpjJM=; b=rGC4JJoAouiQBhjrVsu8yoo1dHR5LYIFenzlm7PI/k45NeqG0BCjHcVIjSezgM0iLs FGj0RbQNzjKJsYoZ2gAXbP6nA+p5TNTGSUAVAyTfwc5Z3bJm6XTYljbaD2Vrcg7rT2J7 dQsWxKQ5emMZr9vfBmPmYXe/CG52TyNzsylAY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=Wi9On47lte7igPJ6DOsb6eCh04Ra5W/O6VMG7jBZ7Vf590xeCYDBoVBgHJGkwvZZsY 1Cbh+PNXMV58Smqrdja3Y4+W3sp/U0a2FtvM8+js+PrTM7NmRPAQuRE5xUHZQ/vY2/3j bwJisjtgIiEHl0AdK/6FPKSgEKtA9jEsIre7g= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gregknicholson@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.52.146 with SMTP id i18mr5969266bkg.82.1241463471230; Mon, 04 May 2009 11:57:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7a7e682b0905041134j2995aaecl1f6faa561095afb3@mail.gmail.com> References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <753bbf8f0905030943g55360e5awa31b94d97b191988@mail.gmail.com> <7a7e682b0905040851w56a343f0o362aa3776f8a59fd@mail.gmail.com> <7a7e682b0905041134j2995aaecl1f6faa561095afb3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 19:57:51 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 22912be991738455 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary? From: Greg K Nicholson To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 18:58:08 -0000 > This design has not thought of the toolbars but only of the idea to intro= duce a command line interface but much more intelligent, simle and beautifu= l than a terminal. OK. I couldn't see this from just the one picture. I have a similar idea myself. The two-paragraph version: the user types the name of either an object (a document, person, disk=E2=80=A6) or a= n action into a command line (which is presented like a browser's location bar). There's a drop-down list showing available options (visible as soon as the command line is focused) and objects/actions are matched like Gnome Do does. After pressing Enter, the user chooses from a list of actions (if they entered an object) or objects (if they entered an action) in the same way. If another parameter is needed, this is then chosen in the same way. This is intended to be like natural-language parsing but more structured. Commands (combinations of object + action + parameter) that are deemed the most relevant (for this user) are shown as toolbar icons to the left of the command line (right for RTL). Closely-related groups of slightly-less-relevant commands are grouped in drop-down menus after these icons (but before the command line). >> The simple solution: >> >> (1) Reorganise all the menus so that the menu name actually relates to >> each menu item, and all the items in each menu relate to each other > > That would be good compromise but only a compromise. It's not a compromise: it's only the first part of the solution. >> (2) Add pretty, friendly icons to each menu title (if you can't draw >> it, it shouldn't be a menu name) > > It is like that now and it loks very busy. Icons should appear only for > actions that perform operatins on physical devices. The menu titles=E2=80=94not the menu items. Toolbar items (see step 3) with= out icons are quite unusual and (I think) would be less inviting for new users. Icons on menu items is a different issue. >> (3) Fold all the menus into the toolbar, as toolbar buttons with >> expansion-arrows > > Not good IMO. Well, this is the crux of the solution: I'm merging the menu bar into the toolbar. Is there a problem this would lead to that I've not addressed? Or do you simply prefer another solution (and if so, why)? >> (4) Make the labels of the least important items (the ones at the end >> of the toolbar) hide if the window isn't wide enough to show them all >> (5) Require this in the Gnome Human Interface Guidelines > > Agree here. From ankere@gmail.com Tue May 5 06:39:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56692750004 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 06:39:21 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.798 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:49:0:60:M1430,S,T,N,W9:.:?:?] (up: 3478 hrs), (link: (Google 2)), [209.85.128.184] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cuyjc3eNbtdw for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 06:39:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com (fk-out-0910.google.com [209.85.128.184]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABBAF75002E for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 06:39:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id f33so2510258fkf.15 for ; Mon, 04 May 2009 23:39:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=NamkmNKpm7PhvPVOaQKKJeEb015VQi7b8uowTpqSQvw=; b=l9ceJMqDGXFFBsa+yrW3RqCXhDj2V1dJ9h/kM2DoiRZFIsnEfinBcL6XDLs51b61nE D3wt/Bf7n4x5DgXC85qc94DgpyVqPhtuRHNJnvyuUBgqaVqpMSahz3oDxlZ6LClUTXe+ JNdyLz08DuEu+Uhk/ENnmYrGiTgz9G6ZoAVgY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=Z/3MpXKB7BV3dsv+7ALln5CwPGkriViOeQxnJy6cPbugjxupCI35/lsovhEHT9Sqdt qGBzaC0l6OEiTWSTMcMn5OES+4K9+ok+24iwwNgFu0dyMSUeTVz/ZhqeF7zkEJt/Clcx Oew1+KgIu4PH8+yJIBCq9J4A1Uatuhz929OOM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.244.4 with SMTP id w4mr4183316mur.90.1241505541723; Mon, 04 May 2009 23:39:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <753bbf8f0905030943g55360e5awa31b94d97b191988@mail.gmail.com> <7a7e682b0905040851w56a343f0o362aa3776f8a59fd@mail.gmail.com> <7a7e682b0905041134j2995aaecl1f6faa561095afb3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 09:39:01 +0300 Message-ID: <7a7e682b0905042339o495fa16ek1ebe0ce6d7075a31@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary? From: Anton Kerezov To: Greg K Nicholson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502dc8dcd1f1204692488da Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 06:39:21 -0000 --00504502dc8dcd1f1204692488da Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Greg K Nicholson wrote: > OK. I couldn't see this from just the one picture. > > I have a similar idea myself. The two-paragraph version: the user > types the name of either an object (a document, person, disk=85) or an > action into a command line (which is presented like a browser's > location bar). There's a drop-down list showing available options > (visible as soon as the command line is focused) and objects/actions > are matched like Gnome Do does. After pressing Enter, the user chooses > from a list of actions (if they entered an object) or objects (if they > entered an action) in the same way. If another parameter is needed, > this is then chosen in the same way. This is intended to be like > natural-language parsing but more structured. > > Commands (combinations of object + action + parameter) that are deemed > the most relevant (for this user) are shown as toolbar icons to the > left of the command line (right for RTL). Closely-related groups of > slightly-less-relevant commands are grouped in drop-down menus after > these icons (but before the command line). This sounds sane. I would go for it and implement it if I knew how to code :) Unfortunately I'm an artist and don't know how (at least not as deep as this kind of programming requires) to build it. I only imagine this as one paragraph and the CLI being dynamically resized depending of the needs (It should generally stay short as the commands should do too). Expansion in tw= o rows would be in case of many commands (preferably done with nice animation= s that help the user). > > > That would be good compromise but only a compromise. > > It's not a compromise: it's only the first part of the solution. I meant using the old menus for doing that task but indeed it is a good ste= p to categorize the items properly. > > The menu titles=97not the menu items. Toolbar items (see step 3) without > icons are quite unusual and (I think) would be less inviting for new > users. Icons on menu items is a different issue. Ok my mistake :) not reading slow enough. Btw windows 7 is introducing text only toolbar items but I'm not sure that this will stay as it is in the final release but there is a chance as speed the their first goal this time as should be ours because in the survey I held about 300-400 people want theri desktop to be very fast, robust. > > >> (3) Fold all the menus into the toolbar, as toolbar buttons with > >> expansion-arrows > > > > Not good IMO. > > Well, this is the crux of the solution: I'm merging the menu bar into > the toolbar. Is there a problem this would lead to that I've not > addressed? Or do you simply prefer another solution (and if so, why)? That is me fast reading again. But how is this different form a menubar wit= h images? I think that text-only is better in this case. Iamages are not good becaue the rules about making programs should be very tight to enfore every app to have exactly the same images for Certain types of operations. What about programs with a lot of custom menus? I would rather like to see a toolbox on top of each program that is context sensitive to the contents in the window so if you have a image in it (edit mode) a tools form gimp would appear and if you have text a text formatting tools would appear (no save and such as this is done automatically and tranparently). and if you have audio -audio tools and so on. I was influenc= e by this idea on Gnome Live : http://live.gnome.org/BrianMuhumuza/ToPaZ Another interesting idea is this: http://live.gnome.org/ScratchPad/UIByTheUser PS: I know that some of you may have read this but I wanted to point them out. Anton --=20 A.K. --00504502dc8dcd1f1204692488da Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Greg K N= icholson <greg@gkn.m= e.uk> wrote:
OK. I couldn't see this from just the one picture.

I have a similar idea myself. The two-paragraph version: the user
types the name of either an object (a document, person, disk=85) or an
action into a command line (which is presented like a browser's
location bar). There's a drop-down list showing available options
(visible as soon as the command line is focused) and objects/actions
are matched like Gnome Do does. After pressing Enter, the user chooses
from a list of actions (if they entered an object) or objects (if they
entered an action) in the same way. If another parameter is needed,
this is then chosen in the same way. This is intended to be like
natural-language parsing but more structured.

Commands (combinations of object + action + parameter) that are deemed
the most relevant (for this user) are shown as toolbar icons to the
left of the command line (right for RTL). Closely-related groups of
slightly-less-relevant commands are grouped in drop-down menus after
these icons (but before the command line).

This sounds= sane. I would go for it and implement it if I knew how to code :) Unfortun= ately I'm an artist and don't know how (at least not as deep as thi= s kind of programming requires) to build it. I only imagine this as one par= agraph and the CLI being dynamically resized depending of the needs (It sho= uld generally stay short as the commands should do too). Expansion in two r= ows would be in case of many commands (preferably done with nice animations= that help the user).

=A0
=
> That would be good compromise but only a compromise.

It's not a compromise: it's only the first part of the soluti= on.

I meant using the old menus for doing that task bu= t indeed it is a good step to categorize the items properly.

=A0

The men= u titles=97not the menu items. Toolbar items (see step 3) without
icons are quite unusual and (I think) would be less inviting for new
users. Icons on menu items is a different issue.

Ok my= mistake :) not reading slow enough. Btw windows 7 is introducing text only= toolbar items but I'm not sure that this will stay as it is in the fin= al release but there is a chance as speed the their first goal this time as= should be ours because in the survey I held about 300-400 people want ther= i desktop to be very fast, robust.
=A0

=
>> (3) Fold all the menus into the toolbar, as toolbar buttons with >> expansion-arrows
>
> Not good IMO.

Well, this is the crux of the solution: I'm merging the menu bar = into
the toolbar. Is there a problem this would lead to that I've not
addressed? Or do you simply prefer another solution (and if so, why)?

That is me fast reading again. But how is this different fo= rm a menubar with images? I think that text-only is better in this case. Ia= mages are not good becaue the rules about making programs should be very ti= ght to enfore every app to have exactly the same images for Certain types o= f operations. What about programs with a lot of custom menus?

I would rather like to see a toolbox on top of each program that is con= text sensitive to the contents in the window so if you have a image in it (= edit mode) a tools form gimp would appear and if you have text a text forma= tting tools would appear (no save and such as this is done automatically an= d tranparently). and if you have audio -audio tools and so on. I was influe= nce by this idea on Gnome Live :

http://live.gnome= .org/BrianMuhumuza/ToPaZ

Another interesting idea is this:
http://live.gnome.or= g/ScratchPad/UIByTheUser

PS: I know that some of you may have read this but I wanted to point th= em out.


Anton




-- A.K.
--00504502dc8dcd1f1204692488da-- From ferkiwi@gmail.com Tue May 5 10:22:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74BFA7500E5 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 10:22:37 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.521 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, TW_JK=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 4025 hrs), (distance 17, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.159] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HwLQ-O3ueEJS for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 10:22:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f159.google.com (mail-bw0-f159.google.com [209.85.218.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BC647500C2 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 10:22:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so4099070bwz.15 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 03:22:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:reply-to:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=otVBIomTMTuM0Z36elzJymNhouYYLoWIAiD130dXNoo=; b=rPGm4zLzQMtQjxtccsIbH4ceo2bVcmvHYzswO7FsTgZcyiyqVnzl0vp7xSNLPho1co 5mqTWLslkW+B4E0M75ZnTFD7rxUb+ijIMB1Sb5z7RvVd2lZIUKbR+oDt1Z9AB23H+tV8 sGyh5xoZubdR2Vb76vJwACV/RyTc9q03AZi6I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; b=RHJYc7EfxWSg1fwdaJ/E/e8DhczmKwrYOJPr4a2Wu6bopOXEYxSp9HUoQ3jUWve3Lq Q+l1DUh4NNw/4AocMOJNMAXNpds0kJVtHGdqrJkIwKgxutdNyONRKupuaEDglZYGPNtr mz5uZphAhGvveMbx4ckbESH8UwknP7gN0aG6g= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.115.12 with SMTP id g12mr2918477faq.92.1241518940267; Tue, 05 May 2009 03:22:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Fernando Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 12:22:05 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Breadcrumbs in the panel To: Sander Dijkhuis Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5b3516aa627046927a701 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list Reply-To: ferkiwi+a@gmail.com List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 10:22:37 -0000 --001636c5b3516aa627046927a701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Sander Dijkhuis wrote: > There's a Summer of Code project that will (among other things) let > GNOME Shell work with tabs within windows, so that would allow for > extending > the breadcrumb trail to "Activities > workspace > window > tab". > I believe that it would be more useful if this was possible to do with windows from the same class. So that it would be possible to perform tab-like navigation for applications that don't have tab management themselves. something like.. Activities: workspace > window class > document, tab-name or window title This way activity switching could work at multiple levels Also notice that I've put "Activities: " instead of "Activities > " I believe that if it is really intended to give a clear hierarchy concept then "Activities" is not a good name for the overlay-mode launcher. You don't have multiple workspaces inside of the activities, it's more like the opposite. If activity does actually mean the ultimate work you are doing in the program/document, then in my opinion the whole breadcrumb should be the location of the activity. Also.. I believe that making the "Activities" button be part of the breadcrumb will be confusing for new users when in a tutorial you refer to paths like: "Activities -> Graphics -> GIMP" when you are talking about the applications menu hierarchy. (unless we want to make the application menu to be same as the workspace application positioning). -- Fernando --001636c5b3516aa627046927a701 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Sander D= ijkhuis <= sander.dijkhuis@gmail.com> wrote:
There's a Summer of Code project that will (among other things) let
GNOME Shell work with tabs within windows, so that would allow for extendin= g
the breadcrumb trail to "Activities > workspace > window > ta= b".

I believe that it would be more useful if this was p= ossible to do with windows from the same class. So that it would be possibl= e to perform tab-like navigation for applications that don't have tab m= anagement themselves.

something like..

Activities: workspace > window class > do= cument, tab-name or window title

This way activity switching could w= ork at multiple levels

Also notice that I've put "Activitie= s: " instead of "Activities > "

I believe that if it is really intended to give a clear hierarchy conce= pt then "Activities" is not a good name for the overlay-mode launcher. You don't have multiple = workspaces inside of the activities, it's more like the opposite. If ac= tivity does actually mean the ultimate work you are doing in the program/do= cument, then in my opinion the whole breadcrumb should be the location of t= he activity.

Also.. I believe that making the "Activities" button be part = of the breadcrumb will be confusing for new users when in a tutorial you re= fer to paths like: "Activities -> Graphics -> GIMP" when yo= u are talking about the applications menu hierarchy. (unless we want to mak= e the application menu to be same as the workspace application positioning)= .

--
Fernando
--001636c5b3516aa627046927a701-- From fosslistmail@googlemail.com Tue May 5 12:04:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB0A7500C2 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 12:04:13 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 1907 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Af6GGOaWNIqK for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 12:04:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B7FA750004 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 12:03:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so4378622ewy.15 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 05:02:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=nbttyxwONraXLWUE8zhC+Jakxjf8oT4I9lHdtEPXC9s=; b=JvpNCfbcptrKGswndTONUys9ZJVbSbBuRjzKwCGLpqCnQbVtt3pvgamGZAlodYeEYD 6rxOqaRe9P7D/CdDj/KoKeLTZRL1d63ZHFBqM1fgEldoZudzFXmlbYPEigvClkjY0lib qldTB33GdEEeuwPWZDHhlPqX/QbkH5V64Ojzg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=qWOX6lpEVHdAaKYUMX1v9fhzc6iYmAC2fBbStw3ML+bSpZzkoAWBqiHWZ69Pvztiig 03phbwrdLNJ4gujLj9QJWtn3Ea4h5hcIXEC2Co5hXLjndaM5dusm+WEHGgSIluwtKT9G pQf+x+GlIFwpakL82v6sBPzlD6ZrZ7U0fp4dI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.81.10 with SMTP id e10mr7728578ebb.86.1241524947554; Tue, 05 May 2009 05:02:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1241435444.4414.3.camel@Obelix> References: <2b0573450905040333i711d5b37n1760e9dac1ff68da@mail.gmail.com> <1241435444.4414.3.camel@Obelix> Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 20:02:27 +0800 Message-ID: <2b0573450905050502t42b20db1i172029a14a42165@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Is hardware accelerated 3D necessary? From: "foss[ilized]" To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 12:04:14 -0000 On 5/4/09, Johannes wrote: Hi! >> Hardware accelerated 3D on Linux appears to be a single-user affair at >> the moment. Only one logged-in user at a time can use 3D acceleration >> (see for example discussions like the one on the DRI-Users mailing >> list: http://marc.info/?t=119413177000001&r=1&w=2). > > Well, I think for fast-user-switching this can certainly be fixed > somehow in X11 because there is only one "real" user active. I'm just afraid that this might slow down the adoption of Gnome 3.0. Witness the problems with Vista. "Forcing" 3D on the users was even a problem for the Mac (whose hardware was under Apple's direct control) in my own experience. The Mac users in the place where I used to work generally turned off the fancy desktop effects because they slowed things down. IMHO we should wait for the Xorg guys to fix the multi-user 3D problem before making a 3D desktop the standard. Cheers. From fosslistmail@googlemail.com Tue May 5 12:12:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A71175010F for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 12:12:58 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hH6pu50qKhIN for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 12:12:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36E15750134 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 12:12:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so4386407ewy.15 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 05:12:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ogkFhqim3cBIOWdI2P23QNw3/+lJi/nLXvVB0BhY4sQ=; b=NfBhfLUmL2HBfRAGFE2pmJXe0G9X7j+CjHEgKm0zSGKNegT14gimhYL5W1E57vrHXz UtmPwlWxMV3gd8dZJYH0YUQywVRsvc14g8MiHnR8YEQta3qtLvoNpxV9ncgNwFT7eZXu YqQqjKLdxH+l6u9EafN/rNMRawHjf3Cp2N0ds= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Cwh5eRd9pqNdM11Hj5dEW56PZPQu+i80t11x2kTtVUAY7CtaHlwGGJLhnOGEcrocsd jffc9+jEDscDiAeioDhftxWGml6qLb3oqTf3rMIOFeQRxwUfciYapYpsYlVoL0dz6HOz Rj+iGG1giZ8J0/g0VeC7gQiicay4VZt8vfZaY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.20.6 with SMTP id 6mr4413318ebt.72.1241525558257; Tue, 05 May 2009 05:12:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <2b0573450905040333i711d5b37n1760e9dac1ff68da@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 20:12:38 +0800 Message-ID: <2b0573450905050512g5617e88fnea176bf677b5f863@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Is hardware accelerated 3D necessary? From: "foss[ilized]" To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rui_Tiago_Ca=E7=E3o_Matos?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 12:12:58 -0000 On 5/4/09, Rui wrote: > 2009/5/4 foss[ilized] : >> Hardware accelerated 3D on Linux appears to be a single-user affair at >> the moment. Only one logged-in user at a time can use 3D acceleration >> (see for example discussions like the one on the DRI-Users mailing >> list: http://marc.info/?t=119413177000001&r=1&w=2). > > The new kernel/X/DRI2/DRM/Mesa architecture "fixes" all this[1]. Also, > the nvidia proprietary driver stack doesn't have that problem. "Will" fix? I'm using the latest released version of X/Mesa and I still have the problem. Except for a brief trial with with some pre-GeForce card, I haven't run nvidia cards since I started using GNU/Linux/BSD, so I don't know the situation with the nvidia binary-only drivers. > [1] http://keithp.com/blogs/Sharpening_the_Intel_Driver_Focus/ > btw, this new architecture will benefit not only intel, but also at > least, the radeon and nouveau drivers. Well, that's something to look forward to. I hope they fix the problem before all the major desktops start the great move to 3D. Or else I might find myself running FVWM ;-) Cheers From jhs@jsschmid.de Tue May 5 13:15:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 665D37500BF for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 13:15:14 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) (up: 5700 hrs), (distance 21, link: ethernet/modem), [85.214.61.233] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id poJyoTGrYgjj for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 13:15:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from jsschmid.de (jsschmid.de [85.214.61.233]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF7F7500C5 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 13:14:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [192.168.1.139] (ppp-88-217-119-156.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.119.156]) by jsschmid.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D89521A81B2; Tue, 5 May 2009 13:14:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Is hardware accelerated 3D necessary? From: Johannes Schmid To: "foss[ilized]" In-Reply-To: <2b0573450905050502t42b20db1i172029a14a42165@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b0573450905040333i711d5b37n1760e9dac1ff68da@mail.gmail.com> <1241435444.4414.3.camel@Obelix> <2b0573450905050502t42b20db1i172029a14a42165@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-rhr80+PLNtt9AloI103K" Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 15:14:51 +0200 Message-Id: <1241529291.4072.5.camel@Obelix> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 13:15:14 -0000 --=-rhr80+PLNtt9AloI103K Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! > IMHO we should wait for the Xorg guys to fix the multi-user 3D problem > before making a 3D desktop the standard. Well, gnome-shell is targeted for 1Q 2009 so they have pleanty of time to fix it until now. But as you might know it's usually the other way round - things get fixed when they are needed. We develop the hardware-accelerated (3D is not really true as all our effects are 2D effects for now) desktop now because it works on most hardware and hopefully other hardware will be fixed or become obsolete soon (as discussed before, even 5 year old hardware should be capable for gnome-shell). Regards, Johannes --=-rhr80+PLNtt9AloI103K Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkoAO8gACgkQAvZZn2XJ+bNB1gCgqGaBzcPBwM/3LD44tKZxypNr IL0AnRyc7JEGTLUJyfWJJSyUWIPQLcgD =Fdxc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-rhr80+PLNtt9AloI103K-- From gregknicholson@gmail.com Tue May 5 13:25:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89D1D750132 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 13:25:15 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 684 hrs), (distance 14, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.178] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MmiDrGoyJAIj for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 13:25:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f178.google.com (mail-fx0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 433697500E4 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 13:25:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so4234866fxm.15 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 06:24:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=RDAx/kv9v1ykO22Lh3Y4JME5ZS3DGoyvxHBycmvls5Y=; b=JeSBS4iIb/IUxdSla9QVCyNeHMurfpZe5bO21sAwJIxGzEa8KRqjjhj2ECQ+YM+Frt 2mfRBLFqeFMil+RUAmkFB5lvqwrlmEHdq5jj0IT5ZJslGAzQ+RP6HlurEZVCsCu5fYFF oknpu5jMOSzNvGfIw3KpA6K3WuwJxELPMqz8A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=RNsqyOxlr2eHfQVgRoKlAsPgzIUR5WmFKgw4G+5jjF0/AqEz7jgez4ScoIJAjuoCf7 o0a+5fAZsNXbTz1YdnY1E3NYHLuyHZkZPWIYyiXWC6d3o25S9nIGCo6HVZuUh8mH8e4q 8/rybHXukI2MSrp1v8TPLNAS2GqphHJgz7cNY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gregknicholson@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.53.72 with SMTP id l8mr28137bkg.171.1241529898530; Tue, 05 May 2009 06:24:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7a7e682b0905042339o495fa16ek1ebe0ce6d7075a31@mail.gmail.com> References: <1241368637.4829.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <753bbf8f0905030943g55360e5awa31b94d97b191988@mail.gmail.com> <7a7e682b0905040851w56a343f0o362aa3776f8a59fd@mail.gmail.com> <7a7e682b0905041134j2995aaecl1f6faa561095afb3@mail.gmail.com> <7a7e682b0905042339o495fa16ek1ebe0ce6d7075a31@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 14:24:58 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: e0f4aef35f4f7494 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Applications Unnecessary? From: Greg K Nicholson To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 13:25:15 -0000 > That is me fast reading again. But how is this different form a menubar w= ith > images? If we're talking about having a menu bar with images, plus a separate toolbar: this is different because all of the controls are part of one UI element. If you mean how is this different from *just* a pretty menu bar and no toolbar: the key difference is that important controls have top-level buttons (not in a menu) so they can still be activated with one click. For example, in a web browser, the Back button wouldn't be in a menu=E2=80=94it'd be its own button (and still at the very start of the toolbar to benefit from Fitts's Law). And having commands in *logical* groups would make a massive difference, IM= O. > I think that text-only is better in this case. Iamages are not good > becaue the rules about making programs should be very tight to enfore eve= ry > app to have exactly the same images for Certain types of operations. What > about programs with a lot of custom menus? Showing images or not isn't really important. I thought they'd make the menus more inviting to new users and those with a pictorial mind, and be more distinct from each other than lumps of text would. But: we already offer the option to show text, images or both for toolbar buttons; so in the end this would be distro or user choice. Choosing the appearance of each image would still be down to the desktop environment (like toolbar buttons now), so they'd still respond to the user's theme. The Tango project already has a standard for naming icons and we should continue to use that. The situation for apps with unusual menus would be the same as it is now for any app with unusual icons. Ideally they should co-ordinate with Tango to ensure consistency. But if they're going to ship their own icons, we have no choice but to trust the app designers to make the icons fit in. > I would rather like to see a toolbox on top of each program that is conte= xt > sensitive to the contents in the window so if you have a image in it (edi= t > mode) a tools form gimp would appear and if you have text a text formatti= ng > tools would appear (no save and such as this is done automatically and > tranparently). and if you have audio -audio tools and so on. I was influe= nce > by this idea on Gnome Live : I think conceptually this is the same as showing *all* possible commands on the toolbar with the irrelevant ones greyed out. I don't think either approach is bad. Just greying out irrelevant commands keeps the app's appearance consistent; but completely hiding irrelevant commands makes the app less visually cluttered. I prefer the greying out approach, but either is fine. From gregknicholson@gmail.com Tue May 5 13:43:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D34FF7500A3 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 13:43:12 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:49:0:60:M1430,S,T,N,W9:.:?:?] (up: 3549 hrs), (link: (Google 2)), [209.85.128.189] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7wxpkHk5hVXM for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 13:43:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com (fk-out-0910.google.com [209.85.128.189]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B9B47500C2 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 13:42:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id f33so2648012fkf.15 for ; Tue, 05 May 2009 06:42:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+YePGZzrYzcUJCT2eq5D808NKJjpTWtOASDbH7rjysM=; b=oa0AaQpNyp+Vykt+63VyZpFAeAUg5cMO3s1vUkvrd9k02IV4E9ZinQllObRmGiNGl5 cBS6LuW+h2o11bIAIdEpCpNIkAoVjtRHAJHE+kgDnTa8Y1kwEfvt5lGriVE2pu3zwolb tw5/OeZLbsOt0mNi5jHhKTRti13cv0Hj7YX9w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=IbrJ5s3FgfAyaxT4k0TXt2f/d7SBY2U16HW6yjtrvMjWhqYD9jM3KIRMfUT+hjI/Ig lomLz22qfRfUZVZ/TMsgiyX3c200Gn2zI6ak/6rqQWlLnWsW7iLl7ICVecZ5D7p+yiN9 V1k240S2DnpZzND+zaXdOUp3WI62BZkWc7JSA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gregknicholson@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.55.142 with SMTP id u14mr68998bkg.114.1241530975647; Tue, 05 May 2009 06:42:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 14:42:55 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 1741e37bfd72ca62 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Breadcrumbs in the panel From: Greg K Nicholson To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 13:43:13 -0000 >> There's a Summer of Code project that will (among other things) let >> GNOME Shell work with tabs within windows, so that would allow for >> extending >> the breadcrumb trail to "Activities > workspace > window > tab". > > I believe that it would be more useful if this was possible to do with > windows from the same class. So that it would be possible to perform > tab-like navigation for applications that don't have tab management > themselves. I'd like to be able to get rid of tabs and just use this. Once we have a decent window manager, we don't need tabs. Though if I could interact with each tab as if it were a window=E2=80=94for example: see live thumbnail previews; switch directly to an inactive tab in another app=E2=80=94I wouldn't mind. > Also.. I believe that making the "Activities" button be part of the > breadcrumb will be confusing for new users when in a tutorial you refer t= o > paths like: "Activities -> Graphics -> GIMP" when you are talking about t= he > applications menu hierarchy. (unless we want to make the application menu= to > be same as the workspace application positioning). That's an interesting idea. Especially if we could somehow prevent =E2=80=9CInternet=E2=80=9D from taking over. Browser *and* IM windows=E2=80= =94quite a lot. From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Tue May 5 16:39:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50AAE7500D4 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 16:39:43 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_Unix=-1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Solaris 10 (beta), (distance 23, link: ethernet/modem), [192.18.6.24] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zFqBTFHoDVsT for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 16:39:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com (gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com [192.18.6.24]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4DEB750195 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 16:39:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fe-emea-10.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-1-fe3.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.10]) by gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n45GdMbi003276 for ; Tue, 5 May 2009 16:39:22 GMT MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; delsp=yes; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-10.sun.com by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-5.01 64bit (built Feb 19 2009)) id <0KJ600H00JJ3A800@fe-emea-10.sun.com> for gnome-shell-list@gnome.org; Tue, 05 May 2009 17:39:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([unknown] [78.16.53.96]) by fe-emea-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7.0-5.01 64bit (built Feb 19 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KJ6009BEJLKL420@fe-emea-10.sun.com>; Tue, 05 May 2009 17:39:20 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 17:39:19 +0100 From: Calum Benson Subject: Re: inline system notifications In-reply-to: <8e6c4bd70904151542j7cdf18aajbd6564f518952d41@mail.gmail.com> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: Bryan Clark Message-id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) References: <8e6c4bd70904151542j7cdf18aajbd6564f518952d41@mail.gmail.com> Cc: gnome-shell-list X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 16:39:43 -0000 On 15 Apr 2009, at 23:42, Bryan Clark wrote: > I'm in the middle of something else but also tried to put together > an animated gif, flip book style, version to help explain (4 frames! > 1 per second!) > http://www.gnome.org/~clarkbw/designs/system-inline-notifications/system-inline-notifications.gif Nice idea, although it would be a bit annoying if I was diving for the Applications menu just as the notification appeared-- any specific rationale around having it appear above any top panels, rather than below? Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com OpenSolaris Desktop Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From brentfoor@gmail.com Wed May 6 13:07:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DFE87501BF for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 13:07:43 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 2158 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PnXSQUvasBW0 for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 13:07:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C83167501F9 for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 13:07:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so92866ewy.15 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 06:07:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=42J66IUfn4ENntIgGS0uhSJHawCYBUuZ1adUB5Axn80=; b=EpzATFhCcVwYhrLettE9idXMrf366I7BjRDabakHJuLFrEE6ZpMjGggqrHpSGzlZdS 9RFWQof9E6pmuPUdi0JYXnST6XZIwnP6TPnbW/P5g6DE5mQuM5YJSoaHQWixf9+CAqLG eGb/c87kSQDTGNZPwr3jGkBr88q0JWlN0035E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=QckL6UHGla7GtKRYaGFDUYl1xP+EvZ/UMkVfLcGXPLLMleltAvEbn7rwAVncULhTXF ldGbfPU+vNMcGJ4gwarlQCqXYXyeZN0OOJIQ2FBcAoh11JAHYolUPqtRv9VBdt4MDb6X sqEuKVWnhCzkivm1yVtANxvcCszlsLTm7pqCA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.20.17 with SMTP id 17mr6002334ebt.26.1241615245321; Wed, 06 May 2009 06:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 09:07:25 -0400 Message-ID: <819152b80905060607s260de77cu3d6c238eadc685be@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Allow Shell Add-ons or integrate more services. From: Brent Foor To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174be732a527c004693e1369 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 13:07:43 -0000 --0015174be732a527c004693e1369 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi My name is Brent I'm new to this mailing list but I'm a big fan of gnome-shell and I have been using it for the last few months. What I'm suggesting is radical but after using gnome-shell I know what I would do to make it work better for me. A lot of this is related to the other desktops I have used and a few applications i have made designed. I would totally lose the top panel, I would have no button for activities instead I would use something similar to the breadcrumb mock-ups I have seen to keep the battery icon, username, and all the other icons in the bottom right hand corner of the screen. To pull up the menu overlay area I would have a customisable key to hit. Make it the "windows" key by default. This would bring up the applications menu on the left side of the screen with almost no changes to the way it works now but I would have contacts on the right side of the screen. This would integrate some of the desktop making the overlay less like a glorified menu. The right side of the menu overlay would be an integration of empathy. The number one thing I use my computer for is communicating with my friends and family. Right now if I want to send a photo to my mother I have to go to an email client or open up a browser, log in, find the image, upload it, and finally send it. This is a dumb way to do anything, its beyond unintuitive. Integrating empathy, "or pidgin" would allow me to grab a file drag it to the right side of the screen hold it there for a second. "or hit the windows key" and drag it on to my moms icon to send it. I hope that what im saying makes since if you disagree that this would add a lot of fuctionality or if it doesnt seem possible please let me know. If anyone likes this idea i could create a moke up. Thanks for reading all of that, Brent --0015174be732a527c004693e1369 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi My name is Brent I'm new to this mailing list but I'm a big fan = of gnome-shell and I have been using it for the last few months.

Wha= t I'm suggesting is radical but after using gnome-shell I know what I w= ould do to make it work better for me. A lot of this is related to the othe= r desktops I have used and a few applications i have made designed.

I would totally lose the top panel, I would have no button for activiti= es instead I would use something similar to the breadcrumb mock-ups I have = seen to keep the battery icon, username, and all the other icons in the bot= tom right hand corner of the screen.

To pull up the menu overlay area I would have a customisable key to hit= . Make it the "windows" key by default. This would bring up the a= pplications menu on the left side of the screen with almost no changes to t= he way it works now but I would have contacts on the right side of the scre= en. This would integrate some of the desktop making the overlay less like a= glorified menu.

The right side of the menu overlay would be an integration of empathy. = The number one thing I use my computer for is communicating with my friends= and family. Right now if I want to send a photo to my mother I have to go = to an email client or open up a browser, log in, find the image, upload it,= and finally send it. This is a dumb way to do anything, its beyond unintui= tive. Integrating empathy, "or pidgin" would allow me to grab a f= ile drag it to the right side of the screen hold it there for a second. &qu= ot;or hit the windows key" and drag it on to my moms icon to send it.<= br>
I hope that what im saying makes since if you disagree that this would = add a lot of fuctionality or if it doesnt seem possible please let me know.= If anyone likes this idea i could create a moke up.

Thanks for read= ing all of that,
Brent
--0015174be732a527c004693e1369-- From ferkiwi@gmail.com Wed May 6 14:03:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC3675025B for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 14:03:58 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 4302 hrs), (distance 17, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.159] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jaYecuvCgaNc for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 14:03:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f159.google.com (mail-bw0-f159.google.com [209.85.218.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FF5675021B for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 14:03:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so120408bwz.15 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 07:03:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:reply-to:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=k0LyoxcQvygRoDMn//W1xstXXenPX2qWbMzB8wXktAc=; b=pl4piBEo56HiIhLR5pdJvZniDF7PyoeZcO9puQC8AsGAtxkSf9Sy6TOYHNqEowUJU1 /PSDbP4otrUlEJ7BL9aIT8UgG/b594bj1tDTYoV1oSCk/H8ABuoF11Rne17Ibmko5M23 5Ngr/U3T/tAVVuzq5j11ZiIt+F/yPOLoFalEE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=qVWQkg81yHZLb9ksvpPnOR1OTM0kvJcVDb/RMPKQ/4vuJfRBwok87DIMdg3QL9/Wf5 MGOd+U7o6xgUkuHfLKQH7nb7F6DmgSae5fN0OhfpogmobkgTklkqsB2K/ebTuoMgHPJF 3fGebK8G6bbjng2RaW3/0IE/Ewi8WeYToMoxE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.126.10 with SMTP id a10mr986539fas.17.1241618621718; Wed, 06 May 2009 07:03:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Fernando Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 16:03:21 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Breadcrumbs in the panel To: Greg K Nicholson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list Reply-To: ferkiwi+a@gmail.com List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 14:03:59 -0000 On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Greg K Nicholson wrote: >> Also.. I believe that making the "Activities" button be part of the >> breadcrumb will be confusing for new users when in a tutorial you refer to >> paths like: "Activities -> Graphics -> GIMP" when you are talking about the >> applications menu hierarchy. (unless we want to make the application menu to >> be same as the workspace application positioning). > > That's an interesting idea. Especially if we could somehow prevent > "Internet" from taking over. Browser *and* IM windows--quite a lot. In fact I think that it's usually convenient to have the browser/IM windows in a separate Internet workspace, since browsing is often using the whole screen anyway, and IM is usually something you want to keep in the background while working (you still can get notifications when someone messages you). Anyway... are applications allowed to be in more than one category at the same time? Perhaps advanced users could create their own categories in the menu, so that they can create their own custom application groups for the category workspace. Another thing that could help is to make it easy for the users to turn some windows sticky for all workspaces, with some button next to the window title, just like maximize. Making it un-sticky could keep it back to its original workspace. -- Fernando From clarkbw@gmail.com Wed May 6 21:37:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EFBE750237 for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 21:37:10 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 1170 hrs), (distance 13, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.221.112] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ejFtUpBtI-hY for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 21:37:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-qy0-f112.google.com (mail-qy0-f112.google.com [209.85.221.112]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 271887501B3 for ; Wed, 6 May 2009 21:36:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so712703qyk.13 for ; Wed, 06 May 2009 14:36:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4zscWL+8UBaEYK8RtaV+cHC6m5iBV0sAe0xC54x3lJk=; b=Q0cPOgF1VjIAQjmb8RHw9kbagT5Y7SrV7YQRKl4vjF1aoSgl3lkFLmINYUGiWXQWYb hKO/sx7Vb9lngr5dRuu82BQFC9oabUBGK3cXB9dZp+5eKTKhtxtcNHiqkynXbkrDLbmu Q4wMKo5ZeqeBMUeGVGA+V4L/79NVIr+ClgTtQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=wk5bjYthW50uTEYZIMrRmXkyIh62XU2lIYK/NtM8dI5Z3J6LgNe94eDneOw6Lwacbe Zk5BHcl3CcGmkB5BA7A6w5AyI4FJRXx8DQEi5sgvtYElMXk/ScLZ+0tSCmOKYkxWYxMj qrKEP+b2XBiuvPfwCNE2BMJPMgxOrN1pjPy1A= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: clarkbw@gmail.com Received: by 10.229.96.13 with SMTP id f13mr1570512qcn.36.1241645811728; Wed, 06 May 2009 14:36:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <8e6c4bd70904151542j7cdf18aajbd6564f518952d41@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 14:36:51 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8e9ea6e0b4fffd44 Message-ID: <8e6c4bd70905061436r17d97d9et80fe5b3918415d4b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: inline system notifications From: Bryan Clark To: gnome-shell-list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 21:37:10 -0000 (again, but to the whole list... ) On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Calum Benson wrote: > > On 15 Apr 2009, at 23:42, Bryan Clark wrote: > >> I'm in the middle of something else but also tried to put together an >> animated gif, flip book style, version to help explain (4 frames! 1 per >> second!) >> >> http://www.gnome.org/~clarkbw/designs/system-inline-notifications/system-inline-notifications.gif > > Nice idea, although it would be a bit annoying if I was diving for the > Applications menu just as the notification appeared-- any specific rationale > around having it appear above any top panels, rather than below? That's a good point, the bottom probably works just as well or better especially considering your example. I placed it at the top for visibility that I wasn't sure would be achieved from the bottom. Cheers, ~ Bryan From otaylor@redhat.com Thu May 7 21:22:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E298B75007B; Thu, 7 May 2009 21:22:25 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.786 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.786 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=1.813, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) (NAT!) (up: 7897 hrs), (distance 14, link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [66.187.237.31] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OGfORCjkc6NH; Thu, 7 May 2009 21:22:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx2.redhat.com (mx2.redhat.com [66.187.237.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2881F75006E; Thu, 7 May 2009 21:22:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (int-mx2.corp.redhat.com [172.16.27.26]) by mx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n47LMAMb019690; Thu, 7 May 2009 17:22:10 -0400 Received: from ns3.rdu.redhat.com (ns3.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.255.199]) by int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n47LM9Nf017597; Thu, 7 May 2009 17:22:09 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sebastian-int.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.221]) by ns3.rdu.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n47LM851022807; Thu, 7 May 2009 17:22:09 -0400 Subject: Finishing the mutter rename From: Owen Taylor To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org, Thomas Thurman Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 17:22:08 -0400 Message-Id: <1241731328.13250.82.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 172.16.27.26 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 21:22:26 -0000 So, we know have not one but *two* patches to rename files in Mutter to make it parallel installable with Metacity: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581238 (Jon Nettleton and Vincent Untz independently did patches) I spent some time looking at the two patches and wanted to write up some of the issues that came up for discussion: GConf Keys ========== Both patches duplicate the entire set of Metacity keys to /apps/mutter. This raises some issues: - Preferences won't be preserved on a Metacity => Mutter upgrade or when switching back and forth. (Something we expect people to do in the GNOME-2.28 timescale, though not for GNOME-2.30) - What does the "Windows" control center capplet set? - Installing both metacity-key.xml.in and mutter-key.xml.in will, if I'm not mistaken, make the "Keyboard Shortcuts" dialog very confusing. One complicating factor is the way the games that are played with the keybinding schemas - there is a header file that is used to generate the schemas, and also included into the source files. Themes ====== Jon's patch preserves the complete set of themes, and the docs and DTD for the themes and installs them as "Mutter" themes. Vincent's patch removes the themes from Mutter. What the best approach here may depend on what we do with window management themes in Mutter in the long term - Do we preserve 100% compatability with the Metacity theme format - Do we gradually evolve the Metacity theme format - Do we preserve 100% compatability with the Metacity theme format for a while and then when we need something new and spiffy, dump it and start from scratch,. (The third of these seems most attractive to me) Options ======= I think that duplicating the GConf keys isn't going to work out that well. I'm very hesitant to create a duplicate copy of all the Metacity themes. So, I see two basic options for alternate ways of proceeding: first, we could simply piggy-back off of Metacity, and depend on it installing GConf schemas and themes. The big advantage of this is that it requires no reorganization and little work; we just remove the files from Mutter. We also don't have to worry about the control-center dependency on libmetacity-private for theme rendering - that just works out. Disadvantages include the need to have Metacity installed to use Mutter; this might be an issue on embedded devices (creation of a metacity-data package at packaging time would be a possibility) and isn't attractive long-term in the GNOME-3.0 timescale. We would also have to figure out how to handle the use of all-keybindings.h in the source code; we might have to duplicate the keybinding data anyways to be able to build Mutter. Or would need to require a new version of Metacity modified to install all-keybindings.h. The other option would be to split data out of Metacity into say, a gnome-wm-data that would have: - the GConf schemas (left as /apps/metacity) - all-keybindings.h - Themes - The theme parts of libmetacity-private (libgnome-wm-theme?) That sounds conceptually appealing, but the gnome-wm-data wouldn't be parallel installable with existing Metacity (because of schema conflicts), which is a problem for people trying out Mutter. So, for now, I think we should just require Metacity to be installed; it would be very easy to switch to the gnome-wm-data approach later. - Owen From tf@linux.intel.com Fri May 8 08:43:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0278D75010C; Fri, 8 May 2009 08:43:12 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [16384:49:1:48:M1460,S,E:P:?:?], (link: ethernet/modem), [192.55.52.89] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SCe-6+KTGn9D; Fri, 8 May 2009 08:43:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fmsmga101.fm.intel.com (mga05.intel.com [192.55.52.89]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F86D7500F0; Fri, 8 May 2009 08:42:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fmsmga002.fm.intel.com ([10.253.24.26]) by fmsmga101.fm.intel.com with ESMTP; 08 May 2009 01:31:41 -0700 X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.40,316,1239001200"; d="scan'208";a="455306865" Received: from unknown (HELO [143.185.76.200]) ([143.185.76.200]) by fmsmga002.fm.intel.com with ESMTP; 08 May 2009 01:37:14 -0700 Message-ID: <4A03F089.1030805@linux.intel.com> Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 09:42:49 +0100 From: Tomas Frydrych User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Finishing the mutter rename References: <1241731328.13250.82.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <1241731328.13250.82.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Thomas Thurman X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 08:43:12 -0000 > The other option would be to split data out of Metacity into say, a > gnome-wm-data that would have: > > - the GConf schemas (left as /apps/metacity) > - all-keybindings.h > - Themes > - The theme parts of libmetacity-private (libgnome-wm-theme?) > > That sounds conceptually appealing, but the gnome-wm-data wouldn't be > parallel installable with existing Metacity (because of schema > conflicts), which is a problem for people trying out Mutter. So, for > now, I think we should just require Metacity to be installed; it would > be very easy to switch to the gnome-wm-data approach later. I really do not want Mutter to have Metacity dependency; we need a solution that can work for distribution, not just for developers testing. Having a separate gnome-wm-data package is lot better solution -- can we not make it in a way that people need to either have the gnome-wm-data OR Metacity installed ? Tomas From myxiplx@googlemail.com Fri May 8 09:30:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D67750120 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 09:30:56 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 2601 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X0yFgMcrNHjI for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 09:30:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5533575010C for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 09:30:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1621771ewy.15 for ; Fri, 08 May 2009 02:30:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=P8jQ6rmhEk7Jw+7KxHxqqnAEr2BiU9/P1e+XXpwmpCI=; b=njEI/H4hfaxO2OSu72UF+ST/l0VgSOX3Ezbou2kRF8NEkqczxE6PR4BE7ceJ0P8cJ8 ER6wtv/zlgexbvqMTkRUZMdJ9L0f9mJKPJIosTjHO9bmvOruXy4+rgrmZYmVjCRfb4A0 EHjllMyy/7P44/xz1kAncogCQcvTPxX+t8QME= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=ho7pJXcwC7s1galiE9AAccKx4vOQKFoA3oOPqWGLGnqTiCYq8lZtSPdgSHqJAQUEQR NDG1X9795mvks45Hu6QS9z0XTX2gfhUARWjVOibaL8TYEaWhXmW2vocofCMrAWpyOssV /nzok6LMsTw9P36/5q5yweztp1yDTBwii9umg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.1.205 with SMTP id 55mr1468543wed.191.1241775037080; Fri, 08 May 2009 02:30:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Ross Smith Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 10:30:17 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905080230s2e704a55nbdb014e91a1e238e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: questions from a newbie To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 09:30:57 -0000 Hi folks, I've just heard about gnome-shell, and like what I see. I do have a few concerns though, and I hope you don't mind me asking about some of them here. First of all though, I *love* the Activities menu, and the whole look of that top panel. The overall concept is just superb, and I think you deserve a 10/10 for what's been done so far. This email has turned out a bit longer than expected, so I'm going to split it into sections: 1. Fine tuning of preferences in a GUI ======================================== My main concern is that you're replacing compiz. Now I can understand the reasons for this, and in general while I like the flashy effects (and they're a big selling point when converting people), I'm confident that you guys are doing just as good a job. What I am worried about is loosing my preferences and the ability to customize the way things behave. I've changed a lot of the speeds in compiz to my desktop is nice and snappy, and I think one of Compiz' biggest strengths is the way you have both a simple and a complex settings manager, so normal users can just set it up, but if you're interested in tweaking, there's a really nice, detailed GUI where I can tweak just about everything. I appreciate this is more for power users than general ones, but I'd love to see that kind of flexibility built into gnome-shell. Something that lets me adjust the animation speed and timings, and all the different behaviors from an easy to understand GUI. 2. Compiz plugins ======================================== While I think this is probably impossible, if there's any way at all you can use compiz plugins (or just enable plugins so that people can migrate compiz ones over), that would be great. Things I'd really like to keep are: - Desktop cube & cube rotation (it's great to show off, and I prefer it to the current gnome-shell workspace switcher, I think the visual analogy is spot on, an it highlights the fact that each workspace is separate) - compiz-deskmenu. Kind of specific, but I'm really finding this useful. - Scale. Invaluable, I've mapped it to ctrl-alt-tab, and use it as a switcher when I have a lot open - Ring switcher. I love being able to choose the animation I like when switching between programs. 3. A suggestion for a new panel workspace switcher ======================================== While we're talking about plugins, a new one I'd really like to see would be something like this: Quick workspace switcher A gnome panel applet that activates on mouse-over, and pops out a small thumbnail panel of all your workspaces. Kind of like the existing switcher, but with a few of benefits: - it doesn't take up so much space on the panel (4 dual screen workspaces is getting a bit large) - ability to support more workspaces (you can forget things like a 4x2 layout with the current one, this would handle even 4x4 fine). - the user could decide the size of the preview window - you get a full graphical preview of the programs running on each workspace - it's still a one click action to switch workspaces - clicking the panel app could bring up a full screen view of all workspaces (arranged like compiz scale). 4. Musings on Workspaces as a way of linking programs ======================================== I can see me using absolutely tons of workspaces with gnome-shell. For me, in gnome-shell a workspace is now just a place to keep related items or projects grouped together, and since Ubuntu hardly ever needs rebooting, I'll just keep workspaces open until that task is finished. Now, what might be nice is a way to close a workspace, and all the programs within it in one go. Would be great when I've finished with a job. Hmm... thinking about it, I wonder if Zeitgeist can use workspaces as a way of linking items? ... and should the Actions menu be able to show tasks for that workspace? ... in fact, that could be superb - separate recent document and program lists for each workspace!! Great for power users. Ross From nalimilan@club.fr Fri May 8 09:51:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB1E750120 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 09:51:52 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:44:1:60:M1380, S, T, N, W8:.:?:?] (NAT!) (up: 6948 hrs), (link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [93.17.128.1] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HLrEqbb-ymzU for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 09:51:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp21.services.sfr.fr (smtp21.services.sfr.fr [93.17.128.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21E957500F0 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 09:51:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from filter.sfr.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by msfrf2103.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id DF3507000097; Fri, 8 May 2009 11:51:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (202.106.196-77.rev.gaoland.net [77.196.106.202]) by msfrf2103.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 9D6ED700008E; Fri, 8 May 2009 11:51:32 +0200 (CEST) X-SFR-UUID: 20090508095132644.9D6ED700008E@msfrf2103.sfr.fr Subject: Re: questions from a newbie From: Milan Bouchet-Valat To: Ross Smith In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905080230s2e704a55nbdb014e91a1e238e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905080230s2e704a55nbdb014e91a1e238e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 11:51:31 +0200 Message-Id: <1241776291.13905.11.camel@milan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 09:51:52 -0000 Le vendredi 08 mai 2009 à 10:30 +0100, Ross Smith a écrit : > [...] Leaving people answer about other points. > 3. A suggestion for a new panel workspace switcher > ======================================== > While we're talking about plugins, a new one I'd really like to see > would be something like this: > > Quick workspace switcher > A gnome panel applet that activates on mouse-over, and pops out a > small thumbnail panel of all your workspaces. Kind of like the > existing switcher, but with a few of benefits: > - it doesn't take up so much space on the panel (4 dual screen > workspaces is getting a bit large) > - ability to support more workspaces (you can forget things like a 4x2 > layout with the current one, this would handle even 4x4 fine). > - the user could decide the size of the preview window > - you get a full graphical preview of the programs running on each workspace > - it's still a one click action to switch workspaces > - clicking the panel app could bring up a full screen view of all > workspaces (arranged like compiz scale). I'm not sure that exactly fits your request, but see the previous "Breadcrumbs in the panel" thread in this list, with a screenshot of the current state of Sander's branch. > 4. Musings on Workspaces as a way of linking programs > ======================================== > I can see me using absolutely tons of workspaces with gnome-shell. > For me, in gnome-shell a workspace is now just a place to keep related > items or projects grouped together, and since Ubuntu hardly ever needs > rebooting, I'll just keep workspaces open until that task is finished. > > Now, what might be nice is a way to close a workspace, and all the > programs within it in one go. Would be great when I've finished with > a job. > > Hmm... thinking about it, I wonder if Zeitgeist can use workspaces as > a way of linking items? > .. and should the Actions menu be able to show tasks for that workspace? > .. in fact, that could be superb - separate recent document and > program lists for each workspace!! Great for power users. This sounds like the idea of Activities I'm trying to implement. See http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Activities for a description how what they could be. Interacting with Zeitgeist on that regard is obviously a goal. From myxiplx@googlemail.com Fri May 8 11:26:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 711EE750120 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 11:26:57 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 2621 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RhFm4krrqSEy for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 11:26:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AB717500B5 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 11:26:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1678122ewy.15 for ; Fri, 08 May 2009 04:26:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iLa4oKqd2KtrZUmiavVzUvyjbeFlHW3e2VtkrqS55DY=; b=pG+CbqqQturvjq8Zp5NKWPmzMzoPOl6mpgV8dq/kFKKZjPmoGfUDwcFWFkHvBS6CiR 1pq3U+OVGx8v+bYUAtR7WMGUFt5lYO2E2oHlj7OCH0g7bxR2ReMF4oq9ax93Cc7VneX/ 0HZt3AzTdm2Q836pafUJ02talVSP7rLrhJ7s4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=UlX/PkPyFNAvA5lXMOIYAldOIhXRugh/Ta8A2bdTjipX5w2iT78NFS4nrRg1dATtoE P7T8RlecLNirMoben0aKBym5wpmeJvAjDHgpjblMXooR15aqIxk/a60DaMxbLC7+gm4h OrTJ1ch7NyaOyd9tc1GHtTmYoGKvHkXPbUOwA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.82.13 with SMTP id f13mr581025ebb.44.1241781997099; Fri, 08 May 2009 04:26:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Ross Smith Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 12:26:16 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905080426x784556dfx790e32040720197c@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Breadcrumbs in the panel To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 11:26:57 -0000 Hey folks, I might be a little late to the discussion, but just wanted to say that I'm not sure about the maximized application idea. I think breadcrumbs are great, the whole Activities -> Workspace -> File/Program is a really, really nice touch, especially with them all being clickable drop down menus. However, I think the maximized idea needs to be optional. It's a neat feature, but I think it might be a case of adding functionality for its own sake, and I can see two problems with it: 1. I now have two possible places to go to close a window - top right, or somewhere in the middle, and that means I'm going to have to think about how to close programs instead of just doing it. Top-right to close a window is pretty much universal, and I don't think I'd be happy if gnome moved away from that. 2. You're blurring the line between the currently running program and the operating system. This is going to confuse the hell out of regular users. People aren't going to know which buttons control the program, and which the main system. I've seen problems similar to this before in Windows. Users opening embedded PDF's in Internet Explorer were thoroughly confused about which menus and buttons to use, they had no concept at all that it was actually a program within a program. You get enough people calling Windows "Word", or "Internet Explorer", and I think you're just asking for trouble from that class of users with this. It *may* be acceptable if you're going to make the whole UI document centric like OS/X, and I think it's definitely a winner for small handheld devices. I'm just not sure it's the best option to have as the default. The way I see it, you're already gaining space with this layout since you no longer need a top and bottom panel, do you really need to claw back that extra line when maximizing programs on machines with screens of 1280x1024 or larger? Ross PS. Could I request a few choices for how programs are ordered in the breadcrumb, I can see a few different options that would work here, and would like the ability to try a few out and pick the best out of: - chronological order - alphabetical (by file) - alphabetical (by program, then by file) I can see the 3rd option being the nicest - grouping by application would mean you'd have a batch of icons for that program next to each other, so visually it would be easy to spot the area you were interested in, and the names would then identify the particular instance you're after. I'm not sure yet whether I'd just want program icons, or whether I'd want program names: [firefox icon] Google.com [firefox icon] GnomeShell [rhythmbox icon] Now playing: Artist - Album - Track or: [ff icon] Firefox - Google.com [ff icon] Firefox - GnomeShell [rbox icon] Rhythmbox - Now playing: Artist - Album - Track I think the second would work better if you split it into columns to make it easy to scan the various instances, but that doesn't fit so well with the document centric ideas. From myxiplx@googlemail.com Fri May 8 11:41:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F097500B5 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 11:41:19 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.307 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.307 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 2624 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U2j0m2P1BgG9 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 11:41:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5AB87500F0 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 11:40:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1685960ewy.15 for ; Fri, 08 May 2009 04:40:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=gllL7oju864smEZ0W4KDdoU3VqU4btHRTNcq+pbIwew=; b=VTDCjkBNtabpXek1E/mXF+EwJdq02CYtExpfV8bMVb2raaqU7n9DRQPI6II2yspf2W ilUF137bgWjpm2pj4r67aARROx1lKRbBqS+zcAcotCgCHtJG7AzgCzrjm3WT0ZxeOPFi M7tsMBivpdlwCKMFUzLOq+Rs3FnQ8GgCkGkrY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=DTkmHLxgEGSUJF2Zzkcl0fXwk2D0wseZYfdU+Q6ReMQ6agUbEAic9xwBLe7GClzmBh /yUdsBXU5b2AVMVurgm9sa4iqj/y9Qj3lDzvDUB/CoxfIBkiMF1UxIZ/x+dSHfKtiNDq 5eTTy3OaCmqZ7UQ68r5BCsz0YoB5MUED6mo08= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.211.180.15 with SMTP id h15mr597972ebp.41.1241782853123; Fri, 08 May 2009 04:40:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1241776291.13905.11.camel@milan> References: <7b160d240905080230s2e704a55nbdb014e91a1e238e@mail.gmail.com> <1241776291.13905.11.camel@milan> From: Ross Smith Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 12:40:33 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905080440x4781866emf113f4c3501134df@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: questions from a newbie Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 11:41:19 -0000 On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 10:51 AM, Milan Bouchet-Valat wr= ote: > Le vendredi 08 mai 2009 =E0 10:30 +0100, Ross Smith a =E9crit : >> [...] > Leaving people answer about other points. > >> 3. A suggestion for a new panel workspace switcher >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> While we're talking about plugins, a new one I'd really like to see >> would be something like this: >> >> Quick workspace switcher >> A gnome panel applet that activates on mouse-over, and pops out a >> small thumbnail panel of all your workspaces. Kind of like the >> existing switcher, but with a few of benefits: >> - it doesn't take up so much space on the panel (4 dual screen >> workspaces is getting a bit large) >> - ability to support more workspaces (you can forget things like a 4x2 >> layout with the current one, this would handle even 4x4 fine). >> - the user could decide the size of the preview window >> - you get a full graphical preview of the programs running on each works= pace >> - it's still a one click action to switch workspaces >> - clicking the panel app could bring up a full screen view of all >> workspaces (arranged like compiz scale). > I'm not sure that exactly fits your request, but see the previous > "Breadcrumbs in the panel" thread in this list, with a screenshot of the > current state of Sander's branch. Thanks, that does sound good, but I think I'd still like a visual workspace picker as an option. You never know though, if it's easy to name workspaces it may end up being quicker and easier to use a menu. > >> 4. Musings on Workspaces as a way of linking programs >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> I can see me using absolutely tons of workspaces with gnome-shell. >> For me, in gnome-shell a workspace is now just a place to keep related >> items or projects grouped together, and since Ubuntu hardly ever needs >> rebooting, I'll just keep workspaces open until that task is finished. >> >> Now, what might be nice is a way to close a workspace, and all the >> programs within it in one go. Would be great when I've finished with >> a job. >> >> Hmm... thinking about it, I wonder if Zeitgeist can use workspaces as >> a way of linking items? >> .. and should the Actions menu be able to show tasks for that workspace? >> .. in fact, that could be superb - separate recent document and >> program lists for each workspace!! Great for power users. > This sounds like the idea of Activities I'm trying to implement. See > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Activities for a description how what > they could be. Interacting with Zeitgeist on that regard is obviously a > goal. I read the first paragraph and I'm hooked!!! Absolutely spot on, it sounds like it matches the way I already work really well, and being able to save activities for later... *drool* I think Gnome-Shell and Activities could be the things that get normal users to really understand and use workspaces. From myxiplx@googlemail.com Fri May 8 12:01:27 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9ED67500B5 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 12:01:27 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 2627 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wfv8DtmxZl2K for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 12:01:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 049F275020A for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 12:01:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1696805ewy.15 for ; Fri, 08 May 2009 05:01:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=InkhmRlXZxJls2G0uxySnv6LdShhexaKrH4Wn08hwgs=; b=aF5qliN4lMnlYTKvogYQwjtQg/5TrfNOPzUTLGkxBHKjCriPsc1YVos+YEEylKrpEM 6fTgOCuDE6g/k3Vy7oKwoF7A2NJpqGpyBm+maF2eAgSnf4znd+5aFTo08DKh7nIJ9W+r cD3SeDdg+ZMKOjXRgZjMAoXdSAeWtzP0d30MA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=DRK5/TEMLE4g0Zy942SYSegdAY07Z48Sl+9k6S+eF9iIwqu6nskO3w+ocyZWLdX6Hm GyCY490sMEd/UdNymDWjUSVm1gI+sRsdGjRlD0kOffMP1pp2cEjaoB+00ae5Ko56dQiV 2X2rcjO8J5dRtcYNRl3niEnEj7LFT8odCk1mM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.35.5 with SMTP id i5mr4287329ebi.88.1241784063082; Fri, 08 May 2009 05:01:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Ross Smith Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:00:43 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905080500u28ee4963l707e61bb8e835446@mail.gmail.com> Subject: voice commands in gnome-shell? To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 12:01:28 -0000 Hi folks, I'm really liking the gnome-shell Actions menu & Workspaces idea, and having heard about Breadcrumbs and Activities today, I'm liking it even more. However, one concern I have is that if I'm working with a bunch of programs, and opening them on various workspaces, to keep activities grouped together, I'm going to need to make sure I name workspaces appropriately, and that I keep on top of renaming them as I finish one task and move to another. And that goes double if I want to be able to use Zeitgeist later on to browse for all the files and programs I used in an activity. Now, I've tried the approach of naming workspaces before with gnome, and gave up on it after just half a day. The hassle of clicking the workspace name, typing a new name, etc was just too disruptive to my flow of work. My workspaces are now 1, 2, 3 and 4, and I just have to remember which tasks I have on each. However, I think it would be a lot easier if you could name workspaces on the fly, and that's where I think voice commands could be useful. Now, I'm no huge fan of using voice for everything, but it does has one big advantage over everything else - it doesn't interrupt your use of the computer, and that seems to fit in well with the limitations I had before naming workspaces. If I could just sit there working, and say at any point "name workspace: development", and watch the workspace name in the panel change I would be a very happy man. There's no need for it to grab focus, it can do it all in the background, and that means I don't need to interrupt what I'm doing. It's potentially going to make it a lot easier to track things by activity, because it's now incredibly easy to label an activity. I can think of a few other times it might be nice to have voice control too: In overlay mode: "new workspace" - why move the mouse all the way to the right to add a workspace when you could just say this at any time? There's no reason this couldn't work even while dragging a program or document. In general use: "name workspace ....." - should happen completely in the background "switch to ....." - to swap to another workspace "show workspaces" - full screen (compiz scale like) view of workspaces "show programs" - full screen view of programs on this workspace "find program ...." - might be handy to find a program you've lost on some workspace somewhere :) By focusing voice control on workspace management tasks, you make voice control relatively simple, and integrate workspaces even more seamlessly into the flow of the UI. Ross From myxiplx@googlemail.com Fri May 8 12:30:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85A2F750111 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 12:30:48 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 2632 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2SQSpATyJHw3 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 12:30:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA748750132 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 12:30:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1713250ewy.15 for ; Fri, 08 May 2009 05:30:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SAu5nqfZRZriDKvV+TLWkhl1gea50dmxatxaquR/QSU=; b=WGCxkV5zpFTDDp11k2aAVnZgQMpn91QN2Y/FKCK6WAGs0HKJRjiahNPmg1VUGOf+Rp t8KMcGDwWFIfdrq8wtZLR1hlIEVfrAIlyVkYGZVSaAD2Bm7igepfpGwsD7UwESSN8G3h nuv0zb7uTrPNq+jcPjzX9c5LKOQmt7Cnl0+S0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=TTGQ+VWgIgsvDFHn6X+6p/LgdNQv8uc4+vMVbch/AQGhywsFW//J4BhY7YdOY7+DbS +83kEibtrP7IAvWhfXRXEMNEVVYl71MeKTL4brwvM/0xcZwK6G1CcdPjSPAzqoiJSwiX hSpjhdKz02/rLx5h2PJVmm9vzTHcoQw00mvxc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.37.11 with SMTP id k11mr603748ebk.98.1241785829090; Fri, 08 May 2009 05:30:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Ross Smith Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:30:09 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905080530q3f8acd72q602b7ef2ff82131e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: "Places" menu in gnome-shell? To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 12:30:48 -0000 Apologies if this has already been covered, but I've had a hunt through the wiki and the archives and couldn't find anything. What are the current plans for implementing the places menu within gnome-shell (and I guess the system menu too)? I guess the System menu can fit in under the main Actions menu (you can easily have it as one of the categories that appears after clicking More), but places would seem to be used a lot more, especially with USB sticks, cameras, etc. The Actions -> Workspace -> Program idea works so well I can't think of any way to add it on the left, so could it be added as a default panel item on the right? I can see a drop down places menu working well, I'm just not sure how well it will fit in unless it has just an icon, but if it's just an icon I don't know how discoverable it will be for the average user. But then I guess there's always the question of how often does the average user actually use it? Ross From marinaz@redhat.com Fri May 8 13:06:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 197477500B5 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 13:06:08 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) (NAT!) (up: 9819 hrs), (distance 11, link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [66.187.233.31] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kzuv7kItrg6u for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 13:06:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D657175006C for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 13:05:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n48D5ne7028843; Fri, 8 May 2009 09:05:49 -0400 Received: from mail03.corp.redhat.com (zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.5.47]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n48D5n7c000657; Fri, 8 May 2009 09:05:49 -0400 Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 09:05:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Marina Zhurakhinskaya To: Ross Smith Message-ID: <1771990602.413701241787948891.JavaMail.root@zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905080530q3f8acd72q602b7ef2ff82131e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: "Places" menu in gnome-shell? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.5.5.72] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 172.16.52.254 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 13:06:08 -0000 Hi! We are planning on having a Places menu as part of the overlay sidebar (the area to the left of the workspaces when you click the Activities button). The new mockups that make the items represented in this sidebar more compact by showing them as icons and include Places are coming soon. Marina ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Smith" To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Sent: Friday, May 8, 2009 8:30:09 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: "Places" menu in gnome-shell? Apologies if this has already been covered, but I've had a hunt through the wiki and the archives and couldn't find anything. What are the current plans for implementing the places menu within gnome-shell (and I guess the system menu too)? I guess the System menu can fit in under the main Actions menu (you can easily have it as one of the categories that appears after clicking More), but places would seem to be used a lot more, especially with USB sticks, cameras, etc. The Actions -> Workspace -> Program idea works so well I can't think of any way to add it on the left, so could it be added as a default panel item on the right? I can see a drop down places menu working well, I'm just not sure how well it will fit in unless it has just an icon, but if it's just an icon I don't know how discoverable it will be for the average user. But then I guess there's always the question of how often does the average user actually use it? Ross _______________________________________________ gnome-shell-list mailing list gnome-shell-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list From myxiplx@googlemail.com Fri May 8 13:23:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FDDF75006C for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 13:23:18 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 2640 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id swSf+OunoiSN for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 13:23:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C50C7500B5 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 13:23:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1744704ewy.15 for ; Fri, 08 May 2009 06:22:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zyW64m8jBS1pVT0BYgDnximOw+Xid/P7Dqj3eAUjbCA=; b=WmxM3FPvzW7MtPQEcEDCSxlWtGW/KnWE4+waWwo+gg4hKfJI0hG2YBUqs8DGeSv43m AXWOoro8SN+2vSrI7/GN6BJVCCCRQjU80U19MczgyL0CVrmI8Sov5EvtjyjlFfuHabe8 2IgW6CUm4Pu3ex7WumttiTYV3jMjiAsdCGZgE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=gnyozRzRbAsAoZ+yAjZmaQipifK8WqJX4RV7CjoxR/idWOlm5ClKhakM2MiLvSCG8U G7DMwQapY0o+6l+5jw3hrEPGVTKrpNBrlsA8YGUrzTweQI78vxGvhdBIqU2322mIdy/K CAur0hpdyP3J2FGL3vILyacEIqK8AOYmT5xwA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.19.68 with SMTP id m46mr1576073wem.7.1241788979085; Fri, 08 May 2009 06:22:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Ross Smith Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 14:22:39 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905080622t52c891eeoe27545a9dbd35109@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Opening multiple items & tips To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 13:23:18 -0000 Me again, sorry! Can you open multiple items from the Actions menu? Right now when you drag an item to a workspace, that workspace opens up. Would it be possible to do something like hold down ctrl and drag the item to have it launched but keep you in the Actions menu? Ross PS. And would it be possible to have tips to teach users about tricks like this? I like how most stuff is discoverable, but the more advanced features are always going to be a bit more tricky. Could you have a tips icon appear in the panel area, or have a tip notification pop up when certain activities are detected? eg: If you spot a user using the Actions menu twice in a row to launch two programs, activate a tip that tells them they can use the ctrl key. Or (once the window layout stuff has been thought through), if somebody has opened two programs, and is sizing and placing them side by side, pop up a tip telling them the quick way to layout windows. From mike@hingston.demon.co.uk Fri May 8 15:44:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79353750072 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 15:44:59 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (NAT!) (up: 1874 hrs), (distance 20, link: BT DSL (?)), [62.49.20.84] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wTbB44vqXf7G for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 15:44:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from charlotte.hingston.demon.co.uk (hingston.demon.co.uk [62.49.20.84]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2A5C75011F for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 15:44:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from charlotte.hingston.demon.co.uk ([10.0.3.4] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by charlotte.hingston.demon.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1M2SG6-0003TS-6u; Fri, 08 May 2009 16:45:10 +0100 Subject: Re: voice commands in gnome-shell? From: Mike Bursell To: Ross Smith In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905080500u28ee4963l707e61bb8e835446@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905080500u28ee4963l707e61bb8e835446@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 16:44:38 +0100 Message-Id: <1241797478.8688.7.camel@protagonist> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 15:44:59 -0000 In addition to Ross' interesting ideas on voice commands, I'd like to put in a plea for non-mouse work as well. There are situations = and hardware, such as laptop or netbook use - where moving my hands to the mouse or trackpad slows me down significantly. So, can we support the following? 1. mouse, or mouse + some keyboard 2. keyboard only for all standard operations 3. voice commands for all or some standard operations? -Mike. On Fri, 2009-05-08 at 13:00 +0100, Ross Smith wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm really liking the gnome-shell Actions menu & Workspaces idea, and > having heard about Breadcrumbs and Activities today, I'm liking it > even more. > > However, one concern I have is that if I'm working with a bunch of > programs, and opening them on various workspaces, to keep activities > grouped together, I'm going to need to make sure I name workspaces > appropriately, and that I keep on top of renaming them as I finish one > task and move to another. > > And that goes double if I want to be able to use Zeitgeist later on to > browse for all the files and programs I used in an activity. > > Now, I've tried the approach of naming workspaces before with gnome, > and gave up on it after just half a day. The hassle of clicking the > workspace name, typing a new name, etc was just too disruptive to my > flow of work. My workspaces are now 1, 2, 3 and 4, and I just have to > remember which tasks I have on each. > > However, I think it would be a lot easier if you could name workspaces > on the fly, and that's where I think voice commands could be useful. > > Now, I'm no huge fan of using voice for everything, but it does has > one big advantage over everything else - it doesn't interrupt your use > of the computer, and that seems to fit in well with the limitations I > had before naming workspaces. > > If I could just sit there working, and say at any point "name > workspace: development", and watch the workspace name in the panel > change I would be a very happy man. There's no need for it to grab > focus, it can do it all in the background, and that means I don't need > to interrupt what I'm doing. It's potentially going to make it a lot > easier to track things by activity, because it's now incredibly easy > to label an activity. > > I can think of a few other times it might be nice to have voice control too: > > In overlay mode: > "new workspace" - why move the mouse all the way to the right to add > a workspace when you could just say this at any time? There's no > reason this couldn't work even while dragging a program or document. > > In general use: > "name workspace ....." - should happen completely in the background > "switch to ....." - to swap to another workspace > "show workspaces" - full screen (compiz scale like) view of workspaces > "show programs" - full screen view of programs on this workspace > "find program ...." - might be handy to find a program you've lost on > some workspace somewhere :) > > By focusing voice control on workspace management tasks, you make > voice control relatively simple, and integrate workspaces even more > seamlessly into the flow of the UI. > > Ross > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Fri May 8 17:42:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBA877500EE for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 17:42:54 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.305 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.305 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=2.294, BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_Unix=-1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Solaris 10 (beta), (distance 23, link: ethernet/modem), [192.18.6.21] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rXspStGxdztg for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 17:42:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com [192.18.6.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 910AD750069 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 17:42:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe2.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.11]) by gmp-eb-inf-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n48HgWdA008490 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 17:42:35 GMT MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KJC00K006BWCE00@fe-emea-09.sun.com> for gnome-shell-list@gnome.org; Fri, 08 May 2009 18:42:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from msfc-226-2.Ireland.Sun.COM ([unknown] [129.156.226.71]) by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KJC004HI6IJVF10@fe-emea-09.sun.com>; Fri, 08 May 2009 18:42:19 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 18:42:19 +0100 From: Calum Benson Subject: Re: voice commands in gnome-shell? In-reply-to: <1241797478.8688.7.camel@protagonist> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: Mike Bursell Message-id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) References: <7b160d240905080500u28ee4963l707e61bb8e835446@mail.gmail.com> <1241797478.8688.7.camel@protagonist> Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 17:42:55 -0000 On 8 May 2009, at 16:44, Mike Bursell wrote: > 2. keyboard only for all standard operations For full accessibility support, every operation is going to need a keyboard alternative anyway, just as we have (or at least strive to have) in GNOME 2.x today. So hopefully, this one is a given :) Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com OpenSolaris Desktop Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From myxiplx@googlemail.com Fri May 8 19:55:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7CD0750069 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 19:55:24 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 2706 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id awUj90eU9owi for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 19:55:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1FCD750030 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 19:55:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1993095ewy.15 for ; Fri, 08 May 2009 12:55:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=N/5DHlKPB6GYrgvfcpGpD32QYKhcE+3jL6FPq1aWESA=; b=D+dvRFQ5+K5SE+f3mTz3cTmhuXOQVCcRRHAMvoyVgPrGU4i26wZirz72wNkvgLxZss ygRDEBWT2uim7CS4MtWRPzdQB11rUaNf+DEfQEibs+H2hkQjnuTz1KcFf7uXCFfSZWqc s057KMefMldqa0sRsBLyrzQZcXicapf5S+FyI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=lQNngX4hPSdi25V0lJxHsi4cdjLCxz/73I+dbzC7FGvL3w/hN/V+G8q+bUGanncB0S Bsum7aJKh6pJd0gm68SyFWzRFDITNl1fQYnuAPDrVXv061r4Hd+m5sfBKkLMAf8qpASP uo/YyCRXDIsgsXBfFUvUtzDegEHtvuTPeDuo0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.50.198 with SMTP id z48mr1793998web.227.1241812502285; Fri, 08 May 2009 12:55:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1241797478.8688.7.camel@protagonist> References: <7b160d240905080500u28ee4963l707e61bb8e835446@mail.gmail.com> <1241797478.8688.7.camel@protagonist> From: Ross Smith Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 20:54:42 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905081254u68012286ub0f72fe404c497cb@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: voice commands in gnome-shell? To: Mike Bursell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 19:55:25 -0000 Actually, having done a little more reading (and discovered Hamster), I'd like to possibly refine the voice-command idea a little. How does this sound? "Voice commands should primarily be used for managing activities." That would cover basic workspace management as mentioned above, and possibly activity creation, and activity time tracking. You then have: - voice commands to set up activities & workspaces on the fly - the Actions menu to start the programs you need (and assign them to workspaces / activities - hamster to keep track of what you're doing (largely based on the currently active activity / workspace) Ross On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Mike Bursell wr= ote: > In addition to Ross' interesting ideas on voice commands, I'd like to > put in a plea for non-mouse work as well. =A0There are situations =3D and > hardware, such as laptop or netbook use - where moving my hands to the > mouse or trackpad slows me down significantly. =A0So, can we support the > following? > > 1. mouse, or mouse + some keyboard > 2. keyboard only for all standard operations > 3. voice commands for all or some standard operations? > > -Mike. > > On Fri, 2009-05-08 at 13:00 +0100, Ross Smith wrote: >> Hi folks, >> >> I'm really liking the gnome-shell Actions menu & Workspaces idea, and >> having heard about Breadcrumbs and Activities today, I'm liking it >> even more. >> >> However, one concern I have is that if I'm working with a bunch of >> programs, and opening them on various workspaces, to keep activities >> grouped together, I'm going to need to make sure I name workspaces >> appropriately, and that I keep on top of renaming them as I finish one >> task and move to another. >> >> And that goes double if I want to be able to use Zeitgeist later on to >> browse for all the files and programs I used in an activity. >> >> Now, I've tried the approach of naming workspaces before with gnome, >> and gave up on it after just half a day. =A0The hassle of clicking the >> workspace name, typing a new name, etc was just too disruptive to my >> flow of work. =A0My workspaces are now 1, 2, 3 and 4, and I just have to >> remember which tasks I have on each. >> >> However, I think it would be a lot easier if you could name workspaces >> on the fly, and that's where I think voice commands could be useful. >> >> Now, I'm no huge fan of using voice for everything, but it does has >> one big advantage over everything else - it doesn't interrupt your use >> of the computer, and that seems to fit in well with the limitations I >> had before naming workspaces. >> >> If I could just sit there working, and say at any point "name >> workspace: =A0development", and watch the workspace name in the panel >> change I would be a very happy man. =A0There's no need for it to grab >> focus, it can do it all in the background, and that means I don't need >> to interrupt what I'm doing. =A0It's potentially going to make it a lot >> easier to track things by activity, because it's now incredibly easy >> to label an activity. >> >> I can think of a few other times it might be nice to have voice control = too: >> >> In overlay mode: >> "new workspace" =A0- why move the mouse all the way to the right to add >> a workspace when you could just say this at any time? =A0There's no >> reason this couldn't work even while dragging a program or document. >> >> In general use: >> "name workspace ....." - should happen completely in the background >> "switch to ....." - to swap to another workspace >> "show workspaces" - full screen (compiz scale like) view of workspaces >> "show programs" - full screen view of programs on this workspace >> "find program ...." - might be handy to find a program you've lost on >> some workspace somewhere :) >> >> By focusing voice control on workspace management tasks, you make >> voice control relatively simple, and integrate workspaces even more >> seamlessly into the flow of the UI. >> >> Ross >> _______________________________________________ >> gnome-shell-list mailing list >> gnome-shell-list@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list >> > > From siggi.gevatter@gmail.com Fri May 8 20:41:50 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50005750111 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 20:41:50 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:51:1:60:M1460,S,T,N,W9:.:?:?] (up: 3144 hrs), (link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.217.164] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fvwjmaIJvUuL for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 20:41:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-gx0-f164.google.com (mail-gx0-f164.google.com [209.85.217.164]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB2F9750030 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 20:41:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: by gxk8 with SMTP id 8so2905356gxk.15 for ; Fri, 08 May 2009 13:41:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=QCLf5Z80MnLcbDRRnulES4A16H8EBNtW++2OTQ3I3iA=; b=uA3l1ZmqHGslwKbQtsPCPjYKha2xsjD6D9YTDyYFh6rmMR7cMYV0umSbz2pTzAuQbk WpB+u9Ih84HsPAZki9DIussUAsgz4T21YOS1LOQvZxmb5RCZ9p//p1f7to6DaAq1jbPH hFUNTq2uWV4Ko2HSB/2huOEATUUtOMOnIFwkc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=H26KmewwvaUWDsBWjV4XCktGRpidQg4AF8cEqHpes480hrDC3IJVtu64ThZppU6/qy udgAWq737k7AKOs+k7s81YMPoe0zUDLVXFoeYogWkxbf/KcLZ/xmh1RsUjxWX/W2SmbY ip37pVkqxB+lRg+LH7sDflq7e0VGDKNWFgRZ0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.186.13 with SMTP id j13mr7383869ybf.54.1241815291632; Fri, 08 May 2009 13:41:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905081254u68012286ub0f72fe404c497cb@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905080500u28ee4963l707e61bb8e835446@mail.gmail.com> <1241797478.8688.7.camel@protagonist> <7b160d240905081254u68012286ub0f72fe404c497cb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 22:41:31 +0200 Message-ID: <357b51820905081341q45b230f4n154a60b9a667ace5@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: voice commands in gnome-shell? From: Siegfried-Angel To: Ross Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 20:41:50 -0000 2009/5/8 Ross Smith : > If I could just sit there working, and say at any point "name > workspace: development", and watch the workspace name in the panel I'm sorry to say this, but AFAIK free voice recognition is nowhere near that. (And, by the way, if you want to help with its development: http://www.voxforge.org/) -- Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) Ubuntu Developer. Debian Contributor. From artirj@gmail.com Fri May 8 20:47:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3BD7750111 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 20:47:02 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 4849 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.159] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ekQENRhhdkWa for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 20:46:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f159.google.com (mail-bw0-f159.google.com [209.85.218.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDC9F750030 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 20:46:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so1486598bwz.15 for ; Fri, 08 May 2009 13:46:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=v2SlLJJBMaMb1UwapeKW3giJQu4eFJCDrk+wgyLcKOs=; b=JGqGlD7Hj63B4wy3w5Ipkz/TZYa1FzVve7rW4+Dbb1iACpYBgASNv/u3BT9v5OnCvI M6fWTU76X1j1qlZA7aX6eAJNt1vFKvQuGl3Tttzg+AZ8Z0ynQcXYocQoQPE6ZVW9ZPnC wY+39UIkp53Yu6RjUsfnxbSRRdMMUynOvCwac= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=HXboW3KF09A0e73T7QBQc923QJFvIhBJd6ShKA0qnaM/ngPjqKDeVOzAw/2teKxJH9 luHOGeayNChOdvtSpRVQyFAIDx8en/lBwXonyOtktCfj+zr6mXSWgJ2PicG9s7CcOYDg tXIu8nq5lQToAI4xrqpL5SZ6Qll/V3sbXEV2s= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.72.15 with SMTP id k15mr4003105bkj.14.1241815602207; Fri, 08 May 2009 13:46:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <357b51820905081341q45b230f4n154a60b9a667ace5@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905080500u28ee4963l707e61bb8e835446@mail.gmail.com> <1241797478.8688.7.camel@protagonist> <7b160d240905081254u68012286ub0f72fe404c497cb@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820905081341q45b230f4n154a60b9a667ace5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 21:46:42 +0100 Message-ID: <753bbf8f0905081346x25356c05o6828a97b67ff3eb4@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: voice commands in gnome-shell? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Luis_Ric=F3n?= To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 20:47:02 -0000 I must say, Siegfried that the normal open-source speech recognition may not be as good as it should be, but when the vocabulary of the speech recognitor is reduced to (workspace,open,close,name,etc,firefox...) the quality greatly improves. This is feasible, and it will be matter of discussion on the Ubuntu UDS, btw. 2009/5/8 Siegfried-Angel : > 2009/5/8 Ross Smith : >> If I could just sit there working, and say at any point "name >> workspace: =A0development", and watch the workspace name in the panel > > I'm sorry to say this, but AFAIK free voice recognition is nowhere near t= hat. > > (And, by the way, if you want to help with its development: > http://www.voxforge.org/) > > > -- > Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) > Ubuntu Developer. Debian Contributor. > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > From siggi.gevatter@gmail.com Fri May 8 20:54:13 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E65D4750030 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 20:54:12 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:50:1:60:M1460,S,T,N,W9:.:?:?] (up: 3146 hrs), (link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.217.164] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tktWPTt3tJdG for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 20:54:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-gx0-f164.google.com (mail-gx0-f164.google.com [209.85.217.164]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83D237500B5 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 20:53:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: by gxk8 with SMTP id 8so2918798gxk.15 for ; Fri, 08 May 2009 13:53:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=WW3ZMtffTUFgE9FO/MaCUTnhFBtFKFv45feTTd6Ozmg=; b=u0tHLBQDZ7lZMU/CvFESGcFJQteaJPEzVDbJzueZAOZp007Ub6EKqaDVYtE6PAsrTk a7sU3mHeHySipbKOl8LMR3fbZsRFQQjUaN+NBzFJKkT4ETcAuq9Fl6+5WvnH6OsiK5f1 CkI8KjA3tPM9MNo0WbjHGh+1MQ99JezS4IOwg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=MSrjwj2YnuUTZUaqym0K/GSBpB6ke47fNLUqCEoYBiMUBbmphrJOSDZQmVAHXKvGAv eTJaZ55sbB6X90wCAjOvrH4vaWAQnoFi/pkUHNn9Rg7d9Nb+eO+8+XsdGp2jg6lBoJd+ W0I0gB6mf6+ZONp84Wim9Q8nP4+ovEsQKuhvs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.73.8 with SMTP id a8mr7406071ybl.108.1241816034918; Fri, 08 May 2009 13:53:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <753bbf8f0905081346x25356c05o6828a97b67ff3eb4@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905080500u28ee4963l707e61bb8e835446@mail.gmail.com> <1241797478.8688.7.camel@protagonist> <7b160d240905081254u68012286ub0f72fe404c497cb@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820905081341q45b230f4n154a60b9a667ace5@mail.gmail.com> <753bbf8f0905081346x25356c05o6828a97b67ff3eb4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 22:53:54 +0200 Message-ID: <357b51820905081353x519a88b5o3ccb3b350d5750f0@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: voice commands in gnome-shell? From: Siegfried-Angel To: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9zw6kgTHVpcyBSaWPDs24=?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 20:54:13 -0000 2009/5/8 Jos=C3=A9 Luis Ric=C3=B3n : > I must say, Siegfried that the normal open-source speech recognition > may not be as good as it should be, but when the vocabulary of the > speech recognitor is reduced to > (workspace,open,close,name,etc,firefox...) the quality greatly > improves. This is feasible, and it will be matter of discussion on the > Ubuntu UDS, btw. Yes (at least for English, I think for most other languages we can forget about it for now), this is why I was specifically quoting the =C2=AB"name workspace: development", and watch the workspace name in the panel=C2=BB part. We can get some few "commands" to be recognized and do something, but not recognize random words to name a workspace. There are also solutions to easily create customized speech corpora (and at least one of them seems quite good, but I haven't got to test any of those yet). This would solve the problems with internationalization and with people having weird pronunciation :P, but I don't think this is something the average computer user will want to do in the near future (of course this is only my personal opinion, I may be wrong). If we used this ideally there would also be an option to send the result back to Voxforge and contribute to the "generic" corpora. Despite this, I'd love to see more work in this area, I just don't think it's ready for massive deploying right now (unless it's having a few commands in English, but that isn't really that useful). Cheers, --=20 Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) Ubuntu Developer. Debian Contributor. From myxiplx@googlemail.com Fri May 8 22:06:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B670750144 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 22:06:18 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 2726 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PZzaMPqWESNN for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 22:06:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2CE2750030 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 22:05:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so2061536ewy.15 for ; Fri, 08 May 2009 15:05:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+nQ43OlSPLUWCaNu2YKR9giIAqniyos5TZer7qrGOaY=; b=Ih/EvrTK1SUiQoLpzp6ZpcyDpqwzMRonjogCV8JWqOUATemJyVucVfaTqqnQ1tFG72 7/8O0WBwUOW6gjWo1/dF+4pAsOWDSEmXy8UKsVzWhgr4Ad5Gf7Q60mWNwaqPrOAeZKDH A17Zl1LJLuMDqe53M923+YsszxN91vZwRJffU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=eD8iwal/bMbu0PbbXTGQ4kdbTtFUrHRO3VNjSOQc+eC3GchHrN+s/P9V00bezI8k7q RLv6K2d7LjMdBkQRxZdZkYM17W8zh+UraPugTq1m63/359n5CJLCaB7RyptUQ61Q5gl5 nr5aqFs2cGiVTIeFCQjZbUYsnc2TDXq7Zadi0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.11.84 with SMTP id 62mr1511425wew.148.1241820357380; Fri, 08 May 2009 15:05:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <357b51820905081353x519a88b5o3ccb3b350d5750f0@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905080500u28ee4963l707e61bb8e835446@mail.gmail.com> <1241797478.8688.7.camel@protagonist> <7b160d240905081254u68012286ub0f72fe404c497cb@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820905081341q45b230f4n154a60b9a667ace5@mail.gmail.com> <753bbf8f0905081346x25356c05o6828a97b67ff3eb4@mail.gmail.com> <357b51820905081353x519a88b5o3ccb3b350d5750f0@mail.gmail.com> From: Ross Smith Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 23:05:36 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905081505w7822603cm3cbd18cad9beac91@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: voice commands in gnome-shell? To: Siegfried-Angel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 22:06:18 -0000 Yes, I did think the naming part would be the most difficult, but since I've no knowledge of open source voice recognition, I thought I'd throw it out there :-) The other tasks are few enough that it should be much simpler to get those running, and even switching between workspaces should be easy enough - if you've got 4 workspaces open it's only got to recognise which of the 4 names you just said. And even if you could say "name workspace", and type the name it would be a start, although keyboard shortcuts would now be able to offer similar functionality. Might it be possible to assign Activity names in advance (in Hamster?), and just use the voice control to assign the current workspace to an Activity? That greatly reduces the amount of words it has to try to recognise. Unfortunately I'm no coder, so I don't think I'm going to be any help creating this, and I know it's a lot easier to come up with these ideas than implement them in practice. I'm always happy to help with testing though, I seem to have a good knack for breaking stuff :-) Ross 2009/5/8 Siegfried-Angel : > 2009/5/8 Jos=E9 Luis Ric=F3n : >> I must say, Siegfried that the normal open-source speech recognition >> may not be as good as it should be, but when the vocabulary of the >> speech recognitor is reduced to >> (workspace,open,close,name,etc,firefox...) the quality greatly >> improves. This is feasible, and it will be matter of discussion on the >> Ubuntu UDS, btw. > > Yes (at least for English, I think for most other languages we can > forget about it for now), this is why I was specifically quoting the > =AB"name workspace: =A0development", and watch the workspace name in the > panel=BB part. We can get some few "commands" to be recognized and do > something, but not recognize random words to name a workspace. > > There are also solutions to easily create customized speech corpora > (and at least one of them seems quite good, but I haven't got to test > any of those yet). This would solve the problems with > internationalization and with people having weird pronunciation :P, > but I don't think this is something the average computer user will > want to do in the near future (of course this is only my personal > opinion, I may be wrong). If we used this ideally there would also be > an option to send the result back to Voxforge and contribute to the > "generic" corpora. > > Despite this, I'd love to see more work in this area, I just don't > think it's ready for massive deploying right now (unless it's having a > few commands in English, but that isn't really that useful). > > Cheers, > > -- > Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) > Ubuntu Developer. Debian Contributor. > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > From brentfoor@gmail.com Fri May 8 22:13:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 714F7750120 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 22:13:09 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.98 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.98 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 1636 hrs), (distance 14, link: (Google 2)), [74.125.46.28] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z9x+9i+l0HGo for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 22:13:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.28]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C67F750030 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 22:12:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so931212ywj.63 for ; Fri, 08 May 2009 15:12:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:mime-version :subject:date; bh=EXQZxJJUPWIxsEjZ2G+tVzXBglfJvjp1VbP5BY2yYV4=; b=qq7rM7vLCBzTZoTgmXevEbOUr17ezYgm64Icwrq6382G3Wx0QuIywtaOOMA2KI6NyC xIO+VpBJncd1NQ9kfsqGUxT2xWNjtUPxlQKBkUVazWKEDDNBtT80GPYqxXmPngcpkonP VI86ermuMlnwwZnYnWDl77qwD0hVctLvzTs0Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer :mime-version:subject:date; b=sIQ4fnGCDT6EkaX6bCcNoHLwv0uXxTH/JH9MZXN2d54JKzFiaAoqR8bLhP3xCLt+uq uUwi3z/qKDIld7Rt1N22vsfJ9LZ6uh+//zFytgVaBaP+YkRbAQ688oVNnex46/bTrmwN AmIV5r404qSvIuHoVm4nnsRcUdtBVotZE6cBw= Received: by 10.100.134.10 with SMTP id h10mr9411856and.148.1241820764170; Fri, 08 May 2009 15:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?10.0.1.152? (pa-208-17-68-197.sta.embarqhsd.net [208.17.68.197]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 8sm3301400ywg.33.2009.05.08.15.12.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 08 May 2009 15:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: From: Brent Foor To: "gnome-shell-list@gnome.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (5H11) Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 5H11) Subject: Voice commands Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 18:14:07 -0400 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 22:13:09 -0000 Why not set up voice commands like hotkeys and have the user add what they want. Sent from my iPhone From amondo@globalstatic.net Fri May 8 22:39:38 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9219C7500B5 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 22:39:38 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.699 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8, RDNS_NONE=0.1] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:48:1:60:S,T,M1460,N,W6:.:?:?] (up: 2671 hrs), (link: ethernet/modem), [92.48.108.244] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MgiygwLmGHfo for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 22:39:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cambridge.eukhost.com (unknown [92.48.108.244]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5361750030 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 22:39:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 78-86-173-177.zone2.bethere.co.uk ([78.86.173.177]:55750 helo=[192.168.1.65]) by cambridge.eukhost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1M2Yiu-00081R-Vz; Fri, 08 May 2009 23:39:21 +0100 Message-ID: <4A04B495.8030509@globalstatic.net> Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 23:39:17 +0100 From: Amondo Roquentin User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090318) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ross Smith Subject: Re: voice commands in gnome-shell? References: <7b160d240905080500u28ee4963l707e61bb8e835446@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905080500u28ee4963l707e61bb8e835446@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cambridge.eukhost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnome.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - globalstatic.net Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 22:39:38 -0000 Ross Smith wrote: > Now, I'm no huge fan of using voice for everything, but it does has > one big advantage over everything else - it doesn't interrupt your use > of the computer, and that seems to fit in well with the limitations I > had before naming workspaces. > I can think of a few other times it might be nice to have voice control too: I think you're confusing on-screen interruption with cognitive interruption. The fact that I have to switch my cognitive focus from working on a document, say, to renaming the workspace is just as big as interruption as renaming it with a mouse and keyboard. Just because the screen components are relatively unchanged does not mean that this is a cost-free operation. From myxiplx@googlemail.com Sat May 9 19:16:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B8B750079 for ; Sat, 9 May 2009 19:16:06 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 2939 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QeXpKkqCrGIf for ; Sat, 9 May 2009 19:15:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF5C750068 for ; Sat, 9 May 2009 19:15:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so2452289ewy.15 for ; Sat, 09 May 2009 12:15:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ldPtG0kzx/Xn5opUhq/N58RtDqfjJSLa/yAbH2MqjLg=; b=YHOf2oHA/Hd2pIqlTlXOSypXDuNndHgjzlPxQoU9Mufb5BDwRu3uLFhq0vsYOja6la V6R5YY9RPvueN6uNKPgbtuF8UBtjDq/ww/ZmwVqhHeILhXmcUMJ8dKNQh80DB273vDJP 6eybCnHFmJCbn5iSTS/J+JZFRg6E+PNZpc5T8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=tSBBBB7KDeH8ZeKn3QQaPBEvAzTcAzXNxuRsQP4NYoxzcns1MYFi7mTbcpEJrp1OQd g58x89e2j03UNgyWOMLoF43BYaSpnUNOmTybz30ZmTMs0Jor1ypAduYK+1agTfPyryBk /XDTxQj7YmSumHOrvXXzi9paYsFxXB2NGnNMQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.47.213 with SMTP id t63mr2455441web.134.1241896547108; Sat, 09 May 2009 12:15:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Ross Smith Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 20:15:27 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905091215l28f791c7tdf9cc606eadf39e3@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Problems building gnome-shell in Ubuntu 9.04 To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 19:16:06 -0000 Hi guys, Sorry to repeat a question, but could somebody help me get past this problem building gnome-shell in Ubuntu 9.04 again? I was helped out in the irc channel the other day, but that was at work so I can't get my hands on the logs, and while I've done my best to search for it, I can't find any other reference to the solution. The problem is during stage 3 of the script - it has an error building clutter. The solution was to touch a file in a directory somewhere, then rerun this stage of the build, and finally run another command, but that's about as much as I can remember :( thanks, Ross From danw@gnome.org Sat May 9 22:53:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5989750073 for ; Sat, 9 May 2009 22:53:20 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_Unix=-1] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: NetBSD 3.0 (DF), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [69.25.196.35] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L83-eZqbTDKq for ; Sat, 9 May 2009 22:53:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mysterion.org (mysterion.org [69.25.196.35]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85B175000B for ; Sat, 9 May 2009 22:53:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from desktop.home.mysterion.org (c-24-99-22-247.hsd1.ga.comcast.net [24.99.22.247]) by mysterion.org (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D6AD08028C; Sat, 9 May 2009 18:53:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A06094F.3050802@gnome.org> Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 18:53:03 -0400 From: Dan Winship User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090320) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ross Smith Subject: Re: Problem building clutter References: <7b160d240905091215l28f791c7tdf9cc606eadf39e3@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905091215l28f791c7tdf9cc606eadf39e3@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 22:53:21 -0000 Ross Smith wrote: > The problem is during stage 3 of the script - it has an error building clutter. > > The solution was to touch a file in a directory somewhere, then rerun > this stage of the build, and finally run another command, but that's > about as much as I can remember :( It's not Ubuntu-specific; the clutter source tree is just broken right now, and will only build completely if you already have a copy of clutter installed. The workaround: when the build bombs out, choose "open a shell", then type "touch clutter/cogl/Cogl-0.9.gir", then exit the shell and continue the build. Then afterwards, do "jhbuild buildone -f -c clutter" to do a rebuild and actually generate that file correctly. -- Dan From otaylor@redhat.com Sat May 9 23:59:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 878D9750008; Sat, 9 May 2009 23:59:33 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.788 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.788 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=1.811, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) (NAT!) (up: 8403 hrs), (distance 14, link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [66.187.237.31] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EooWPOL41qVm; Sat, 9 May 2009 23:59:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx2.redhat.com (mx2.redhat.com [66.187.237.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06DB075000B; Sat, 9 May 2009 23:59:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (int-mx2.corp.redhat.com [172.16.27.26]) by mx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n49NxF6O013135; Sat, 9 May 2009 19:59:15 -0400 Received: from ns3.rdu.redhat.com (ns3.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.255.199]) by int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n49NxEHl026799; Sat, 9 May 2009 19:59:15 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sebastian-int.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.221]) by ns3.rdu.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n49NxDXc003919; Sat, 9 May 2009 19:59:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Problem building clutter From: Owen Taylor To: Dan Winship In-Reply-To: <4A06094F.3050802@gnome.org> References: <7b160d240905091215l28f791c7tdf9cc606eadf39e3@mail.gmail.com> <4A06094F.3050802@gnome.org> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 19:59:13 -0400 Message-Id: <1241913553.12149.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 172.16.27.26 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 23:59:33 -0000 On Sat, 2009-05-09 at 18:53 -0400, Dan Winship wrote: > Ross Smith wrote: > > The problem is during stage 3 of the script - it has an error building clutter. > > > > The solution was to touch a file in a directory somewhere, then rerun > > this stage of the build, and finally run another command, but that's > > about as much as I can remember :( > > It's not Ubuntu-specific; the clutter source tree is just broken right > now, and will only build completely if you already have a copy of > clutter installed. > > The workaround: when the build bombs out, choose "open a shell", then > type "touch clutter/cogl/Cogl-0.9.gir", then exit the shell and continue > the build. Then afterwards, do "jhbuild buildone -f -c clutter" to do a > rebuild and actually generate that file correctly. I put a fix in Clutter bugzilla at: http://bugzilla.openedhand.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1594 (But Dan's workaround is going to be easier than applying my patch if you just want to get gnome-shell built.) - Owen From myxiplx@googlemail.com Sun May 10 07:15:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AC9C7500C1; Sun, 10 May 2009 07:15:03 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.522 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_GL=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3059 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8vA4VyDh5Ulp; Sun, 10 May 2009 07:14:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1356750008; Sun, 10 May 2009 07:14:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so2664383ewy.15 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 00:14:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ContKYKXTL/b/eJfKWsD6CX8Q78S15JMqQiEeBxZ+F4=; b=aRp2pcZbziXRL2zgWBCUt+UvGEipyUK4ylgqOzUnk3BSsRP35QIDr6SNWvmqkWJP6J mpxyJK5OWzNnzMhOTD+4JhYEBi9A+4OMWhC9whkowAQbC1GFIvMWDexKuk1BOTciaZrV Y/BCmnQF9oCHKFe/sJq+X9uSKm2m7ZOMUMcXY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=XvbK4zwujN+U1WiWXUPB2qpl48/OOmFigkU/e14ob94uRNiJm804uMbnp73jglRaXE LIEGJBjsubX76vHj6pb9eT6kX3xwYSAGqB265AcTP5ta0JxIkTOn4xK+J/nKH42qN1Fv WiSGefcRQ2bY+zAMACEugo0XAv2O/NUU/Zmjw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.50.198 with SMTP id z48mr2678001web.227.1241939682104; Sun, 10 May 2009 00:14:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1241913553.12149.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <7b160d240905091215l28f791c7tdf9cc606eadf39e3@mail.gmail.com> <4A06094F.3050802@gnome.org> <1241913553.12149.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> From: Ross Smith Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 08:14:22 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905100014q65e85392uc04dbf17d0de150b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Problem building clutter To: Owen Taylor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 07:15:03 -0000 Thanks guys, that worked a treat. Adding a few details, just in case anybody else hits this and tries to google it: Original error: Build stops with the line: *** error during stage build of clutter: ########## Error running make *** [3/6] Further up in the log you will see: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lclutter-glx-0.9 And this is all during the build stage: *** Building clutter *** [3/6] The fix, as supplied by Dan Winship is: 1. Choose option [4] - start shell 2. Type "touch clutter/cogl/Cogl-0.9.gir" 3. Type "exit" 4. Choose option [1] - rerun stage build 5. When the build finishes, run: "jhbuild buildone -f -c clutter" Ross On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 12:59 AM, Owen Taylor wrote: > On Sat, 2009-05-09 at 18:53 -0400, Dan Winship wrote: >> Ross Smith wrote: >> > The problem is during stage 3 of the script - it has an error building= clutter. >> > >> > The solution was to touch a file in a directory somewhere, then rerun >> > this stage of the build, and finally run another command, but that's >> > about as much as I can remember :( >> >> It's not Ubuntu-specific; the clutter source tree is just broken right >> now, and will only build completely if you already have a copy of >> clutter installed. >> >> The workaround: when the build bombs out, choose "open a shell", then >> type "touch clutter/cogl/Cogl-0.9.gir", then exit the shell and continue >> the build. Then afterwards, do "jhbuild buildone -f -c clutter" to do a >> rebuild and actually generate that file correctly. > > I put a fix in Clutter bugzilla at: > > =A0http://bugzilla.openedhand.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3D1594 > > (But Dan's workaround is going to be easier than applying my patch if > you just want to get gnome-shell built.) > > - Owen > > > From myxiplx@googlemail.com Sun May 10 07:20:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D207F750008; Sun, 10 May 2009 07:20:05 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.522 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_GL=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3059 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YS4CbD2RZGjj; Sun, 10 May 2009 07:19:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79E4575000B; Sun, 10 May 2009 07:19:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so2665842ewy.15 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 00:19:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=lpee5kvOFbEtq9OmGsETuvec5kr4hcnu/rAAlOczJsQ=; b=rtpf/oFAHDemRE/80EaE+OLQCE1S7KDsiEh7852/CTPz7kamB88UjbJFPIhwI1SYN3 1X0WxbR97Rk8bK969ngRWYMhkge0xx5Z+sPFEaZOhMD5MSmyY+zCkKbZps0U5k5dTz0h KnwtBjZCibrUcEST6JdV3AnZw/hQfOyF88awI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=DfTdfm6O6elEpkbzXSOATU7FFFtamEGccWEtL4XtUEE4jwM8/p8hA6noejxJ71MOK9 gIDY0By/n2QceifPj2cjqiNOqauqPGzyaiBLnz3wVaMwQnRFy2fEkSmeAg53Vi8kYzYR yFZF/zIQUdD2VlgRoPwVhta7gddaN8pIMOK78= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.11.210 with SMTP id 60mr2620068wex.188.1241939985196; Sun, 10 May 2009 00:19:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905100014q65e85392uc04dbf17d0de150b@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905091215l28f791c7tdf9cc606eadf39e3@mail.gmail.com> <4A06094F.3050802@gnome.org> <1241913553.12149.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7b160d240905100014q65e85392uc04dbf17d0de150b@mail.gmail.com> From: Ross Smith Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 08:19:25 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905100019s5d494b71i7841a83237dcfc37@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Problem building clutter To: Owen Taylor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 07:20:06 -0000 Haha, sweet. Gnome-shell runs on Ubuntu 9.04 even though Compiz doesn't. Ubuntu really messed up 9.04 graphics imo. On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Ross Smith wrote: > Thanks guys, that worked a treat. > > Adding a few details, just in case anybody else hits this and tries to > google it: > > Original error: > Build stops with the line: > *** error during stage build of clutter: ########## Error running make > =A0*** [3/6] > > Further up in the log you will see: > /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lclutter-glx-0.9 > > And this is all during the build stage: > *** Building clutter *** [3/6] > > The fix, as supplied by Dan Winship is: > 1. Choose option [4] - start shell > 2. Type "touch clutter/cogl/Cogl-0.9.gir" > 3. Type "exit" > 4. Choose option [1] - rerun stage build > 5. When the build finishes, run: > =A0 =A0"jhbuild buildone -f -c clutter" > > Ross > > On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 12:59 AM, Owen Taylor wrote: >> On Sat, 2009-05-09 at 18:53 -0400, Dan Winship wrote: >>> Ross Smith wrote: >>> > The problem is during stage 3 of the script - it has an error buildin= g clutter. >>> > >>> > The solution was to touch a file in a directory somewhere, then rerun >>> > this stage of the build, and finally run another command, but that's >>> > about as much as I can remember :( >>> >>> It's not Ubuntu-specific; the clutter source tree is just broken right >>> now, and will only build completely if you already have a copy of >>> clutter installed. >>> >>> The workaround: when the build bombs out, choose "open a shell", then >>> type "touch clutter/cogl/Cogl-0.9.gir", then exit the shell and continu= e >>> the build. Then afterwards, do "jhbuild buildone -f -c clutter" to do a >>> rebuild and actually generate that file correctly. >> >> I put a fix in Clutter bugzilla at: >> >> =A0http://bugzilla.openedhand.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3D1594 >> >> (But Dan's workaround is going to be easier than applying my patch if >> you just want to get gnome-shell built.) >> >> - Owen >> >> >> > From myxiplx@googlemail.com Sun May 10 07:37:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5652A75000B for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 07:37:42 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3062 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bRDjoEhVYW86 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 07:37:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C32750008 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 07:37:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so2670861ewy.15 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 00:37:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uo51zL8AJDr5DqXttkANffbTzyba7bPVuaXkfcjZFJw=; b=gIWoXS2+Nc/5eIaru3zbIYTkkWNbQKJskvcEYUSFwnA/XkmXtDLMrZdIR8aa5BfRuu 2CDQ505PaUoB7C0FMJXtItlgJ1N38k5nhH2zzuk+zf8CK7nQGNx1VC0o+hJc+i4N0nUl f+CYm/nfE1r68TXlNB0DK+oflWeFnjNIKKIck= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=c88a5CcqQkwVhnzlclcL4MuAyiUeAKopDAmDqdxNLsO2JGk4oF+namijnpgjGqTcZL 2TYuoaMFO4l9OuN7BdrTdaxHLm67tg/c9D8THAqUjb+Bm8WIA8DzY+eOUxPpyq86W6uG PMSZfx/R/VS2je9CsySgFAPXqhLX0GYPeWlpY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.16.212 with SMTP id h62mr2657198weh.201.1241941042219; Sun, 10 May 2009 00:37:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Ross Smith Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 08:37:02 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905100037n1fe731een56c45b24d6948642@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Idea for closing workspaces that contain programs To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 07:37:42 -0000 Hi guys, Please let me know if this isn't the best place to discuss new ideas, I'm pretty new here :) After adding a new workspace, I hit this bug that stops me removing it: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581209 But it got me thinking - while adding workspaces is great, and integrates with the workflow of launching applications really well, the closing a workspace process feels a bit clunky. I have to manually close every program on that workspace, then click on the Activities menu, and then click a button to close it. What I would like to suggest are two new features for closing workspaces: 1. Allow the user to close any workspace. If there are programs on there, ask if they should be closed or moved to another workspace. If you think this is feasible, it pretty much resolves bug 581209. 2. Allow users to drag one workspace onto another to close the original workspace and move the programs in one motion. And a quick thought for creating workspaces: 3. Allow users to drag programs onto a blank 'new workspace' area, or onto the '+' symbol to open a new workspace with that program on it. I'd also maybe be tempted to change the graphic styling of the '+' to make it look like a faded or greyed out mini workspace (you could even include the users background). And how about: 4. Instead of dragging to launch a program and stay in the menu, could we think about a way to launch a program on a specific workspace and immediately switch to it? I would suggest that launching multiple programs is likely a power user thing, so either ctrl+dragging, or right-click dragging would make sense to me as methods to launch a program and stay in the Activities menu. I can't see regular users who drag wanting to do anything other than launch a single program and go to it. Ross From nalimilan@club.fr Sun May 10 10:49:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8091F7500AE for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 10:49:44 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:44:1:60:M1380, S, T, N, W8:.:?:?] (NAT!) (up: 7071 hrs), (link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [93.17.128.3] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OEJ1EFSr5fuc for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 10:49:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp21.services.sfr.fr (smtp21.services.sfr.fr [93.17.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 612987500ED for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 10:49:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from filter.sfr.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by msfrf2112.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E5573700008D; Sun, 10 May 2009 12:49:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (202.106.196-77.rev.gaoland.net [77.196.106.202]) by msfrf2112.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id A704D7000086; Sun, 10 May 2009 12:49:25 +0200 (CEST) X-SFR-UUID: 20090510104925684.A704D7000086@msfrf2112.sfr.fr Subject: Re: Idea for closing workspaces that contain programs From: Milan Bouchet-Valat To: Ross Smith In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905100037n1fe731een56c45b24d6948642@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905100037n1fe731een56c45b24d6948642@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 12:49:24 +0200 Message-Id: <1241952564.4865.12.camel@milan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 10:49:44 -0000 Le dimanche 10 mai 2009 à 08:37 +0100, Ross Smith a écrit : > Hi guys, > > Please let me know if this isn't the best place to discuss new ideas, > I'm pretty new here :) > > After adding a new workspace, I hit this bug that stops me removing it: > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581209 > > But it got me thinking - while adding workspaces is great, and > integrates with the workflow of launching applications really well, > the closing a workspace process feels a bit clunky. I have to > manually close every program on that workspace, then click on the > Activities menu, and then click a button to close it. > > What I would like to suggest are two new features for closing workspaces: > 1. Allow the user to close any workspace. If there are programs on > there, ask if they should be closed or moved to another workspace. If > you think this is feasible, it pretty much resolves bug 581209. I'd like to make this possible in Mutter/GNOME Shell, that would be nice to have together with the Activities feature. I don't think there's a real limitation in Mutter except a few places were the code does not expect to remove a workspace other than the last one. What's the developers' feeling about that? > 2. Allow users to drag one workspace onto another to close the > original workspace and move the programs in one motion. That can be an idea, but anyway I think that if we allow to close any workspace, we'll have to move its windows to the next one. So that may remove the use case for your proposal. > And a quick thought for creating workspaces: > 3. Allow users to drag programs onto a blank 'new workspace' area, or > onto the '+' symbol to open a new workspace with that program on it. > I'd also maybe be tempted to change the graphic styling of the '+' to > make it look like a faded or greyed out mini workspace (you could even > include the users background). I guess that can be done relatively easily. About the graphical change, I think you'll have to draw the picture first! ;-) > And how about: > 4. Instead of dragging to launch a program and stay in the menu, could > we think about a way to launch a program on a specific workspace and > immediately switch to it? I would suggest that launching multiple > programs is likely a power user thing, so either ctrl+dragging, or > right-click dragging would make sense to me as methods to launch a > program and stay in the Activities menu. > > I can't see regular users who drag wanting to do anything other than > launch a single program and go to it. Makes sense, indeed. Maybe we can agree on this? From myxiplx@googlemail.com Sun May 10 11:15:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 874807500C6 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 11:15:17 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3098 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fKEGYNE3SDfJ for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 11:15:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A799575000B for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 11:14:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so2753928ewy.15 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 04:14:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=nvb/niIy3nJvNUXGARC4G/l1qcvVGiUFKQ+UYRJENJ8=; b=mMNdiKdOV/gV/+FcdSSepzDBeVIrsYhZ2iHi+A9YgDWHbcP3/WY9AH3o1yd8hhYJI3 S7tmynJKGrBmJJ/cRfqRf059tP1bAF0aomyJDgPlKt+BdQrKPUYe/tSGFMDSpS7Bqb+u zVA7YaiTW3p+z1KHpwNEw+0zRfe7gK8db1qqc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Erhnvc/AxR9n0pME7HzlHxbLoRoWVdjDemcGOjx6sRdcFOjNRnshjJwIh5u076F78O 06RyjUSJjkaiMqki2K6RwlHhu3p5t91XSwNouW485eRyL8ACBIh3YLcCYI2h1+sfwV2z 2UIRB74lS22fGA+Sw+7LC4RyNBxatsVyurezs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.6.200 with SMTP id 50mr2719924wen.117.1241954096077; Sun, 10 May 2009 04:14:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1241952564.4865.12.camel@milan> References: <7b160d240905100037n1fe731een56c45b24d6948642@mail.gmail.com> <1241952564.4865.12.camel@milan> From: Ross Smith Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 12:14:36 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905100414y243d0469w8b8d233ff1ec7d3e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Idea for closing workspaces that contain programs To: Milan Bouchet-Valat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 11:15:17 -0000 On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Milan Bouchet-Valat w= rote: > Le dimanche 10 mai 2009 =E0 08:37 +0100, Ross Smith a =E9crit : >> Hi guys, >> >> Please let me know if this isn't the best place to discuss new ideas, >> I'm pretty new here :) >> >> After adding a new workspace, I hit this bug that stops me removing it: >> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D581209 >> >> But it got me thinking - while adding workspaces is great, and >> integrates with the workflow of launching applications really well, >> the closing a workspace process feels a bit clunky. =A0I have to >> manually close every program on that workspace, then click on the >> Activities menu, and then click a button to close it. >> >> What I would like to suggest are two new features for closing workspaces= : >> 1. Allow the user to close any workspace. =A0If there are programs on >> there, ask if they should be closed or moved to another workspace. =A0If >> you think this is feasible, it pretty much resolves bug 581209. > I'd like to make this possible in Mutter/GNOME Shell, that would be nice > to have together with the Activities feature. I don't think there's a > real limitation in Mutter except a few places were the code does not > expect to remove a workspace other than the last one. What's the > developers' feeling about that? > >> 2. Allow users to drag one workspace onto another to close the >> original workspace and move the programs in one motion. > That can be an idea, but anyway I think that if we allow to close any > workspace, we'll have to move its windows to the next one. So that may > remove the use case for your proposal. But what if I don't want the windows on the next one? If I'm organising my programs by workspace, I might just want to merge a couple. Just merging a bunch of programs without letting me choose where to is something that will get in the way, not help. > >> And a quick thought for creating workspaces: >> 3. Allow users to drag programs onto a blank 'new workspace' area, or >> onto the '+' symbol to open a new workspace with that program on it. >> I'd also maybe be tempted to change the graphic styling of the '+' to >> make it look like a faded or greyed out mini workspace (you could even >> include the users background). > I guess that can be done relatively easily. About the graphical change, > I think you'll have to draw the picture first! ;-) Oh bugger, I'm no good at pictures. Let me try again: While the + symbol looks neat, and is obvious for creating workspaces, I don't think it's so intuitive as a location to drag things to. If you could create a border around the +, and a workspace background, you could make the + look visually like another small workspace. I think it makes two improvements: - It's now even more obvious that the + relates to adding a workspace - It makes it more intuitive as a location to drag programs to in order to launch them >> And how about: >> 4. Instead of dragging to launch a program and stay in the menu, could >> we think about a way to launch a program on a specific workspace and >> immediately switch to it? =A0I would suggest that launching multiple >> programs is likely a power user thing, so either ctrl+dragging, or >> right-click dragging would make sense to me as methods to launch a >> program and stay in the Activities menu. >> >> I can't see regular users who drag wanting to do anything other than >> launch a single program and go to it. > Makes sense, indeed. Maybe we can agree on this? > > > From daniplanas.a@gmail.com Sun May 10 16:45:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B51277500A3 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 16:45:53 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 5415 hrs), (distance 16, link: (Google 2)), [74.125.78.26] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rNpBTsLgc0gz for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 16:45:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com (ey-out-2122.google.com [74.125.78.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37035750086 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 16:45:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id d26so618357eyd.9 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 09:45:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:content-type :date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; bh=H8fjB1l6qm48I0yMbUCBS8AhZoXBpTZOMBzhEGM+xGE=; b=d+smmiuhDJwh0ejFFV+FTe2O4kxeZ7dHEpyaM5HsljlyrdbKAN8kGZhx43sd9VUEwP /hwFK4nTHAxcMst0cVIcISIz+9xOBs8RSRfiJ2mlhP5vsQlGfkYvqfxaXIXdE1x/mFyq hylynVeTywmFdd9EEBsMCNwzqawHKStJP/glg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer :content-transfer-encoding; b=ZcdR0dtMSDJFOENbxXaFZQwB7gd81ePUN+swMaYKahPTm8a9Sq1Gh7dub53PRVOZoj FYZTsp5wG//4ZkLaMdV4PEtw4x3pGI+8rUfCpQeOmwOwQYViJJQyau5PognZ2JE8Y1ds aDv8edETOul0Cif6LMiUNzNvaBlYlYGicVT4E= Received: by 10.216.18.82 with SMTP id k60mr2840397wek.118.1241973934266; Sun, 10 May 2009 09:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.129? (189.234.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es [87.221.234.189]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 24sm5987237eyx.3.2009.05.10.09.45.33 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 10 May 2009 09:45:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: thoughts a functional shell From: daniel planas armangue To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 18:45:32 +0200 Message-Id: <1241973932.4717.10.camel@dani-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 16:45:53 -0000 hello, first of all I will introduce myself: My name is Daniel and I am a flat active member of the community Art ubuntu, sorry for my bad inglish :( ------------------------------------ the desktop continues to be focused on programs (activities), only you change the name. I propose to focus the desktop files (documents). I propose that the desktop functions such as Rhythmbox -classifique-automatically separate the files and type: . imagenes . musica . videos . packages . text documents . ... etc. -a single-folder for the library of music (ie a single folder to store all files) . home folder -system-search songs (files) . This philosophy requires desktop indexing -------------------------------------------------- -------- that the difference compared to the current system: Cons: . the system is more invisible to the user and many times you do not have a mental idea of where everything is (although you will find it) . indexado required if there are many files pros: . The desk is much more organized (it is true that many like to make a library of folders and files manually and are all very orderly, but many users siquera not know where it will stop when you download a file or to save a document) . . desktop (currently a work table) can become an organizer . It is faster to access files, which are ultimately the final interest . programs go to the middle and do not engage! . less clicks, fewer things to more easily read = ------------------------------------------------ see the mockups, everything is more clear: 1-menu https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=1-menu.jpg 2-document https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=2-document.jpg 3-new https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=3-new.jpg 4-activities https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=4-acticities.jpg From myxiplx@googlemail.com Sun May 10 17:56:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04E017500A3 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 17:56:19 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3166 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bJtfKzS6PEwi for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 17:56:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 798C7750083 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 17:55:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so2891413ewy.15 for ; Sun, 10 May 2009 10:55:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=dA2MCieJ3LyS+O19hjrptQaWj6EJB7llg1dA6aLSxXs=; b=PcxxiEn+Q9xH/lq854qnwTdYx3y3+iJ+vyCjkQCwuyC0/Zr5qYXe5l+af9prwkkn2I LhJc27L3UqlnowtYnxb0KoklD4c0c2pT13U/Fda5wawea04XuzKIFHlQlbJaxa7ES3AK Z7iElE0UWjlh0X/+T7leAr+DGDdlN4clsQDIA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=xxLkXmkx2X0BfVce+f4km9IxtbmlKrYwKAbk5loEvgHzNIKQz5Mc9SGit5J1uedcrQ 5exvYVNRPBEOZifwUhIkOKqu29r7pNE7Q2QDM7Di7CcPc9RRDmH8sTBa4oxcvQBHq7N4 g8qAJUxNwhBliAvxuIcVteXaI2PokOSF47Lxg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.13.74 with SMTP id a52mr2826922wea.145.1241978158107; Sun, 10 May 2009 10:55:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1241973932.4717.10.camel@dani-desktop> References: <1241973932.4717.10.camel@dani-desktop> From: Ross Smith Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 18:55:38 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905101055y7f4c6399icfab978cd4d6f01b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: thoughts a functional shell To: daniel planas armangue Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 17:56:19 -0000 While I like the idea of a document-centric system, I think the gnome-shell idea is the best idea I've seen to approach it given the way people use their computers today and the software available. The big problem for me is that document-centric needs both the shell and the programs running within it to be designed with that in mind, and I don't see how a new shell alone is going to achieve that. To mention a few specific problems with your ideas: - Opening documents is slower - instead of immediately opening with the default program, the user is having to make a choice. This will alienate the 90% of users who just want to use computers. Unfortunately I don't see how document-centric can work when there are so many different programs which can work with each type of file. - Ditto for creating new documents - which program is going to be used? I would suggest that it's actually easier for creating documents for the users to just open the program they want to use and start working. To me the beauty of the gnome-shell 'Activities' approach to me is that it's starting down the line of document centric working, but activities can mean documents or programs, which means it integrates well with the current software and the way people work now, but it also provides a really convenient way to just work with documents - and I see that being potentially a large stepping stone towards document-centric software. So with gnome 3.0 you get the best of both worlds - things work just fine for people wanting to run programs, and it also works for people who just want to use documents. And the concepts I've seen discussed on the wiki indicate to me that some of the people working on gnome 3.0 definitely have document-centric in the back of their mind. Finally, some food for thought - to me, the Activities concept is superb, I think that linking activities through workspaces is potentially better than just document centric. Many of the things I do involve working with several documents, and co-ordinating quite a few things at once. So I could be working with 2-3 documents, browsing the web, and chatting with colleagues. That involves multiple documents, and multiple programs, but it's all just one activity. And on a busy day, I might want to have half a dozen activities on the go at once. So gnome 3.0 covers: - Program centric - I just launch the program I want - Document centric - I just open the document I want (and no need to browse through folders to find it) - Activity centric - I open all the programs, and documents I want all together, and with zeitgeist I can browse through the programs and documents used with each activity. Ross PS. I'm very much a newbie here, so please, don't assume there's any huge weight of experience behind these ideas ;-) On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 5:45 PM, daniel planas armangue wrote: > hello, first of all I will introduce myself: > My name is Daniel and I am a flat active member of the community Art > ubuntu, sorry for my bad inglish :( > > ------------------------------------ > > the desktop continues to be focused on programs (activities), only you > change the name. > > I propose to focus the desktop files (documents). > I propose that the desktop functions such as Rhythmbox > > -classifique-automatically separate the files and type: > > . imagenes > . musica > . videos > . packages > . text documents > . ... etc. > > -a single-folder for the library of music (ie a single folder to store > all files) > > . home folder > > -system-search songs (files) > > . This philosophy requires desktop indexing > > -------------------------------------------------- -------- > > that the difference compared to the current system: > > Cons: > . the system is more invisible to the user and many times you do not > have a mental idea of where everything is (although you will find it) > > . indexado required if there are many files > > > pros: > . The desk is much more organized (it is true that many like to make a > library of folders and files manually and are all very orderly, but many > users siquera not know where it will stop when you download a file or to > save a document) . > > . desktop (currently a work table) can become an organizer > > . It is faster to access files, which are ultimately the final interest > > . programs go to the middle and do not engage! > > . less clicks, fewer things to more easily read = > > ------------------------------------------------ > > > see the mockups, everything is more clear: > > 1-menu > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=1-menu.jpg > > 2-document > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=2-document.jpg > > 3-new > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=3-new.jpg > > 4-activities > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=4-acticities.jpg > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > From myxiplx@googlemail.com Mon May 11 07:45:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C62547500BF for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 07:45:02 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3304 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X6cOGZXHkJjY for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 07:44:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCFC5750050 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 07:44:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so3112771ewy.15 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 00:44:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QVw6F1TkjmvqpQakdLGUjB4n/lfrPtiKZdwzclgO0dY=; b=OhKlDEkS5yhyYbIeLv921oKlScXRGpQ24IsH4VbKvmkSSou0Tb123cn2JnCEDCnku7 ca9YRSUN/kVLnjqrwZjoPuV+2YnGNbCe+4Ai13qGRlakEsGfODT7TlnlpDXcxAveXFEY zb312iy2TII6NXSIVvc9TZ/f0tCTwIAMS38OI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=My/VoHDFq3i8a//Ixdv96fgYSJVJdK6r+iEOTJ9cMcwkatD4V8Npu0yht/hbMD8f2J s/sTgXbvad+xI3S2VY4JVlxZ74tknUJBC0/2txE66ifHG5nSoIRdT1tgDwIpg4HZvzqH 8VWyvHnQVc3SuY0j8lAxHN1Cy0J5/n74hGflU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.6.200 with SMTP id 50mr3056797wen.117.1242027882238; Mon, 11 May 2009 00:44:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Ross Smith Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 08:44:22 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905110044s3b83dde4v523f4409cab1a3e4@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Feature request: Preferences, animation & speed settings To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 07:45:03 -0000 Hi guys, Could I make a request for some kind of nice GUI to set animation speed preferences, possibly with an eye towards being able to choose type of animation in the long term. I love the way compiz allows you to tweak everything easily with ccsm, which to my untrained eye looks like a modular design, so it's very easy for it to manage any setting they add. Would it be possible to add something similar in gnome-shell, but with a few changes: 1. Don't have separate settings managers, I'd rather have just one with an 'advanced' button. 2. Add the ability to save sets of settings, meaning: 2.1 The default settings can be made available as a set and restored at any time. 2.2 That should make the average user more confident about playing about with changes. 2.3 More advanced users can share and download sets of animations, in the same way themes are shared now. The main reason for this is that while I quite like the gnome-shell animations, I know I'm going to want to speed up many of them before long (particularly for switching workspaces), and I imagine that everybody is going to have different preferences here. The ability to share sets of animations also means that it would be possible to ship with a number of settings, and makes it possible for even new users to download and try new settings without having to delve into the depths of something like ccsm. If you can do sets, I can see it being useful to ship three sets of settings: - default settings - flashy settings (for showing off the capabilities) - high performance (faster workspace changes, etc, for professional / power users) thanks, Ross From myxiplx@googlemail.com Mon May 11 08:38:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A3375006F for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 08:38:00 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 5574 hrs), (distance 16, link: (Google 2)), [74.125.78.25] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cqwednjZ5Mfs for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 08:37:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com (ey-out-2122.google.com [74.125.78.25]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F1E750050 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 08:37:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id d26so675961eyd.9 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 01:37:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=b3vyn/WvjCFtAM5IGSuoV0LZYgomxQARDOwLb2Q0GOs=; b=OsmRZB9429Mo1h1ge8hHg/PAkDXPVMthHjLXa+o2ZzAYSovphsVlV0bMMZEIGgBX8G /3jK/Ea14WT2OdDt8uuZmVC6tpjIreUWASKHeUnOk3/5nSU4F1h9RuoPX+yUsA0l95Lh /S1n6Y5XiApOHPA8IIgmeBCX/5ZbOsC0+v/9c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=iypZ5TkYRxNkOle8r5AFbxkfTvHJFZhnJiLcEzfKP9qSC1cuR+2OGN+n2jNU8vtQtp wn2TcYpipm8DQDH/J+t1IWoEuuDNetT5e5QngTEaC5SZoDDLMQibPsW1tmLHp+SBjzHI aQRoBxt9H+mUOwncZiyyGdlj9ixCqPlPuxRAI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.11.210 with SMTP id 60mr3041501wex.188.1242031060324; Mon, 11 May 2009 01:37:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Ross Smith Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 09:37:20 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905110137t53dc4c6asd114072be059dcae@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Thoughts on window sizing To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 08:38:00 -0000 Hey everyone, I remember reading some discussion about tiling windows, and how that could be done, but I don't remember any real consensus on a good way to achieve it. Might it be possible to make application sizing 'snappy' as a way to achieve this? The idea is to allow users to resize programs as normal, but have the window snap to points every 1/4 and 1/3 of the screen width (possibly with a graphical overlay appearing as you size the window, showing snap points in a nice big font - saying 1/3, 2/3, etc...). Snappy sizing, snappy positioning, and snapping to other window borders would make it really easy to resize any set of windows in a way that they tile together. And if you wanted to make it possible to do this with even less movement, you could even implement it as a pull out menu from the title bar. Have an interface something like the way tables are added in Word - you just drag out to the size you want. The idea is that clicking that menu would give you a small representation of the screen, with lines at the 1/3 and 1/4 marks, both vertically and horizontally. You could then just drag the mouse to the size you want. To make it visually obvious how the window is split, it might be worth using alternating shaded backgrounds for each row and column, so: - at the 1/3, 1/3 mark there's an obvious split into a grid of 3x3, - at the 1/2, 1/3 mark, you're now selecting the top cell in a 2x3 grid - at 2/3, 1/2, you've selected the top two cells in a 3x2 grid etc... I would also like to suggest 'flicking' as a way to move a window to a side or corner of the screen. Instead of having to place the window exactly, I want to grab it, and quickly flick it to one side or corner, and release the mouse. The idea is that if the system detects that the mouse button is released in motion like this, the system animates the window being 'thrown' in that direction, snapping to one the side or corner you aimed at. How does all that sound? Am I just nuts? :-D Ross From myxiplx@googlemail.com Mon May 11 09:28:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1B3E75006A for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:28:10 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3321 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Izob+B-fLqmg for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:28:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9053675006F for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 09:27:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so3155443ewy.15 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 02:27:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=L1ZokBf+iD3cSetyydA2xpQiH1AWz/mdXySqReM4zBs=; b=su6SKMoy2+4vM+zDZk6MLXHe/Gco7aXXQkdC+H4AwQLQaGIEQ4xxAHioEYFxZyPrw8 VdqJPRFF1jAd22ViZDmxVROSeO+n3zh17QxOJsGpOhV/cX+fiqM0rS+9j0SBwAn64yEu kvy+f69xhDMoAYDgzIFYZqppGlNwh+JuBtJRo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=MKFfTJodFd0zdnsNkYs34smwvYxCgZs6bezrIjTXEcoZeeDNsw0tVAjsYTSOcZKwZI SdBqXM+m3MoRczmwmV3gwpIOWPsjoi/t6ZbD1q33kyqDwfB2hGFfghnZaPL8cGsDI884 /uFlxKsUXTTrh9vR/cw/vDp+F1u9mlMTY6KaM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.50.198 with SMTP id z48mr3182695web.227.1242034071124; Mon, 11 May 2009 02:27:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905110137t53dc4c6asd114072be059dcae@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905110137t53dc4c6asd114072be059dcae@mail.gmail.com> From: Ross Smith Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 10:27:31 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905110227g6174a24eta5b4eff181f2f3c0@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Thoughts on window sizing To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 09:28:11 -0000 And another quick thought on this: It's potentially going to be annoying if you're trying to resize a window, but it's snapping to something you don't want. So using ctrl as a modifier to let you resize it precisely is probably sensible. And I'd like to re-visit my tips idea for this too: If the system detects a user resizing a window, and dragging it back and forth over a snap point, it should activate a tip using the standard notification system that says something like "Hold down the Ctrl key for fine adjustment when sizing a window". That makes it easy to use, and also easy to discover the advanced functionality as you need it. On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Ross Smith wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I remember reading some discussion about tiling windows, and how that > could be done, but I don't remember any real consensus on a good way > to achieve it. > > Might it be possible to make application sizing 'snappy' as a way to > achieve this? > > The idea is to allow users to resize programs as normal, but have the > window snap to points every 1/4 and 1/3 of the screen width (possibly > with a graphical overlay appearing as you size the window, showing > snap points in a nice big font - saying 1/3, 2/3, etc...). > > Snappy sizing, snappy positioning, and snapping to other window > borders would make it really easy to resize any set of windows in a > way that they tile together. > > And if you wanted to make it possible to do this with even less > movement, you could even implement it as a pull out menu from the > title bar. =A0Have an interface something like the way tables are added > in Word - you just drag out to the size you want. > > The idea is that clicking that menu would give you a small > representation of the screen, with lines at the 1/3 and 1/4 marks, > both vertically and horizontally. =A0You could then just drag the mouse > to the size you want. > > To make it visually obvious how the window is split, it might be worth > using alternating shaded backgrounds for each row and column, so: > - at the 1/3, 1/3 mark there's an obvious split into a grid of 3x3, > - at the 1/2, 1/3 mark, you're now selecting the top cell in a 2x3 grid > - at 2/3, 1/2, you've selected the top two cells in a 3x2 grid > etc... > > I would also like to suggest 'flicking' as a way to move a window to a > side or corner of the screen. =A0Instead of having to place the window > exactly, I want to grab it, and quickly flick it to one side or > corner, and release the mouse. =A0The idea is that if the system detects > that the mouse button is released in motion like this, the system > animates the window being 'thrown' in that direction, snapping to one > the side or corner you aimed at. > > How does all that sound? =A0Am I just nuts? =A0:-D > > Ross > From cgwalters@gmail.com Mon May 11 20:24:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DBD875004D for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 20:24:56 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:51:1:60:M1460,S,T,N,W9:.:?:?] (up: 3861 hrs), (link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.217.212] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aXL1FLZc5StJ for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 20:24:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-gx0-f212.google.com (mail-gx0-f212.google.com [209.85.217.212]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42787750050 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 20:24:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: by gxk8 with SMTP id 8so5600749gxk.15 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 13:24:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2JU7R10SUuQ6/37138u9gWTAeOF7NOlLa4EnRTD6ey0=; b=OcVlvp2tq4oNI7NVipGDCmRFYCseW8wPx7dq1O3f7q6BLlsycbV+uE4LFyf1T1epVj ANAn2zpvQBoQSSxujkkFf/tZTQsNrOue/qMCv3tNz7gHYo1QRw6jyQZ+/g8PsimGt3ys uvwoKIeaJ3VFl7zSf1198nHfs78jurNzQgVBM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=xUJ4vhGZksuXsirmMd6DwRkQK8IJ8tBIHswAYLUHvjtywb5v0D4078fYaRJ2OD+abz IFLkS+2KyKSWsxbLKM2vLLDVyIgerUJMgxMbctiKI9k7FSfCU/UKYb020SApAid/0IdL vO7zN45XtpYufEV4ga9pr8zXWKKEkyK0boRmE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: cgwalters@gmail.com Received: by 10.100.248.16 with SMTP id v16mr18184976anh.60.1242073479752; Mon, 11 May 2009 13:24:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 16:24:39 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: f6dd3682c51906a6 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Voice commands From: Colin Walters To: Brent Foor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "gnome-shell-list@gnome.org" X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 20:24:56 -0000 Hi, On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Brent Foor wrote: > Why not set up voice commands like hotkeys and have the user add what they > want. I think this role is going to be best served by a third party program at this time, for the users who are interested in voice control. There are enough scenarios where voice is impractical (office, coffee shop, noisy environment) that it can't really be default. From gregknicholson@gmail.com Mon May 11 22:01:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47456750086 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 22:01:45 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 5580 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.159] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id anLEQF6SX+6L for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 22:01:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f159.google.com (mail-bw0-f159.google.com [209.85.218.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 699C47500ED for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 22:01:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so2757592bwz.15 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 15:01:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hXwoJAgZmhQYVKQ5sovMAMJTpW+5jDUmx6Dxk/8fFtU=; b=S7tEdSdoK9N7SfFVO9SFDT4s9JAyzfMO5u+RC31Nq+iOJEqcRUqk8M+MQsbx3Ej+WN OAFZZGZyNMcXu64FmMNdRPgiNATJvRfbXHeBCgJjdm276yZ2FPjC5zrfUT4wVYyFF6B5 G/mk/IjcIH7rX9AeOGDQyNRRkpQV2ynMfkMcY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=Il+pLgvylW2OPt1S6HfFr6jsZdk+gwk247ng/yFPotnwdIWZsdOuWv+iKyy7sdEiMv rXt3VNFfGU7qKefoJ4xCS08LlUyQD3H41TOm/dU//LoOxs93pHB6OTQ7aIn4lBq7ohSf tuDdXjiSYq0kgFhzmeKyJ6krD7QL18G7U2xxo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gregknicholson@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.120.193 with SMTP id e1mr7327479bkr.147.1242079287383; Mon, 11 May 2009 15:01:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905110227g6174a24eta5b4eff181f2f3c0@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905110137t53dc4c6asd114072be059dcae@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905110227g6174a24eta5b4eff181f2f3c0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 23:01:27 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0ef3eab07968fc16 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Thoughts on window sizing From: Greg K Nicholson To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 22:01:45 -0000 On the subject of resizing: what is the use-case for it?=E2=80=94why do we need to be able to resize windows to arbitrary sizes? Obviously, sometimes you want to see multiple windows side-by-side, which is a good argument for tiling (instead of maximisation all the time), but doesn't require arbitrary sizing. Idea 1: As a compromise between free-resizing and enforced tiling, we could allow windows sized (only) to twelfths of the screen width or height. So when resizing (using the familiar UI), the window edges always snap to the nearest twelfth. I propose twelfths in particular because this allows having two, three or four equally-sized windows side-by-side. Idea 2: Imagine if window-list buttons had tick-boxes: all of the ticked windows show tiled (in some sensible arrangement). Different sets of windows can be ticked on different workspaces. Clicking the main part of a button ticks that window and unticks all others, leaving just that window occupying the whole screen=E2=80=94much like how a tab bar works. (I'm not sure, however, how this would apply to whatever gnome-shell replaces the window list with.) From otaylor@redhat.com Mon May 11 22:26:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EDE2750086 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 22:26:08 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.75 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=1.772, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, TW_JH=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) (NAT!) (up: 8867 hrs), (distance 14, link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [66.187.237.31] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hp6Skot3SiCn for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 22:25:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx2.redhat.com (mx2.redhat.com [66.187.237.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 533C975004D for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 22:25:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (int-mx2.corp.redhat.com [172.16.27.26]) by mx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n4BMPnGI022137 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 18:25:49 -0400 Received: from ns3.rdu.redhat.com (ns3.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.255.199]) by int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4BMPnuk030321 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 18:25:49 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sebastian-int.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.221]) by ns3.rdu.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n4BMPmhT023685 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 18:25:48 -0400 Subject: GNOME Shell and GNOME-2.28 From: Owen Taylor To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 17:54:11 -0400 Message-Id: <1242078851.3201.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 172.16.27.26 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 22:26:08 -0000 GNOME Shell Goal for 2.28 ========================= A desktop that reflects the basic ideas of GNOME Shell that is compelling to use on a day-to-day basis as the primary desktop. gnome-shell-2.28 should be in a state where distributions shipping GNOME 2.28 can include GNOME Shell as well. Interaction with the GNOME Release ================================== Proposing gnome-shell as an official module for GNOME-2.28 doesn't seem feasible at this point: there are two many unknowns, too fast a pace of development, and too many unstable dependencies. But at the same time, we want the GNOME-2.28 release to be a point where people can preview what's coming in GNOME-3.0 and give us feedback. That means doing a release of GNOME Shell that is tightly coupled to the GNOME release deadlines, that we release in a form compatible with the GNOME-2.28 module set, and that we maintain as a "stable" release sufficiently past the 2.28 release so that people can run it, and that distributions can package it. (That is, we don't want to do a fly-by release where two weeks later we are saying "that's old and broken, jhbuild the latest code") Tasks ===== UI Design: We need to get solid non-placeholder user interface designs for application and document navigation, task switching, and gadgets in a sidebar or otherwise. Consideration should also be given to how the shell interacts with notifications and notification icons. Then we need to implement the designs. Performance: gnome-shell needs to perform well enough that it will be usable for a wide range of people. Roughly speaking, this means that it needs to be competitive with Compiz in it's graphical demands and resource utilization. This will require work with X to determine what cards and drivers it can run on reasonably; to indentify bugs and performance problems, and get them fixed. Dependencies: We need to make sure that all the dependencies (gobject-introspection, gir-repository, gjs, clutter, mutter) are packagable, are sufficiently stable that a distribution can ship them with GNOME-2.28. Where appropriate, modules should be proposed as GNOME-2.28 desktop modules or external dependencies. Localization: gnome-shell should support translation of all user-visible strings. Integration: gnome-shell should be installable, packagable, it should be easy for the user to switch to gnome-shell, try it out, and if necessary switch it back. It should integrate properly with gnome-session. Accessibility: Full accessibility support is *not* a goal for the 2.28 version of gnome-shell, however, we need to make sure that things are on track to get it there for 2.30/3.0. This will require review of accessibility support being developed for Clutter. By GUADEC? ========== What's our sub-goal for GUADEC? (about half-way between now and 2.28.) At GUADEC, I want to aggressively push GNOME developers to switch, so we need to get enough of the above done so that people have no excuses. Timeline ======== A few select dates from http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointTwentyseven/ May 11: NOW May 18: New module proposal deadline Jul 3-11: GUADEC Jul 27: Feature freeze Aug 12: First Beta Sep 9: Release candidate Sep 23: Final release So, four months. Not a lot of time. From otaylor@redhat.com Mon May 11 22:26:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB1EB75004D for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 22:26:09 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.789 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.789 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=1.810, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) (NAT!) (up: 8867 hrs), (distance 14, link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [66.187.237.31] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6p1aaWHqQ4HQ for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 22:26:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx2.redhat.com (mx2.redhat.com [66.187.237.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 199187500C8 for ; Mon, 11 May 2009 22:25:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (int-mx2.corp.redhat.com [172.16.27.26]) by mx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n4BMPqUM022143; Mon, 11 May 2009 18:25:52 -0400 Received: from ns3.rdu.redhat.com (ns3.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.255.199]) by int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4BMPqO8030364; Mon, 11 May 2009 18:25:52 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sebastian-int.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.221]) by ns3.rdu.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n4BMPp3r023702; Mon, 11 May 2009 18:25:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Feature request: Preferences, animation & speed settings From: Owen Taylor To: Ross Smith In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905110044s3b83dde4v523f4409cab1a3e4@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905110044s3b83dde4v523f4409cab1a3e4@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 18:21:12 -0400 Message-Id: <1242080472.3201.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 172.16.27.26 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 22:26:10 -0000 On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 08:44 +0100, Ross Smith wrote: > Hi guys, > > Could I make a request for some kind of nice GUI to set animation > speed preferences, possibly with an eye towards being able to choose > type of animation in the long term. > > I love the way compiz allows you to tweak everything easily with ccsm, > which to my untrained eye looks like a modular design, so it's very > easy for it to manage any setting they add. gnome-shell will obviously be more configurable in the future than it is now, since now it's not configurable at all. :-) But adding a preference is generally speaking something we do in GNOME as the last resort. For a detailed discussion of the cost of adding preference, see: http://ometer.com/free-software-ui.html In this case, if we immediately add a preference for the speed of the animation, then we've solved a problem for the small group of users that are annoyed, that can figure out why they are annoyed, and sufficiently annoyed to go track down the preference to change it. But we've left everybody else out. So, maybe the timings are just too slow in general (they are, but not sure if speeding them up completely resolves the problem). Maybe the timings should speed up as you gain familiarity with the shell. Maybe we can actually detect the tolerance for speed of the user by watching how fast they mouse and how fast they double click. And then when every other option is exhausted, we can go back and see if adding a small number of preferences is the right way to do it. There's no way we'd want to add separate preferences for the speed of going to the overlay and the speed of switching desktops, but maybe a single "animation speed" slider that we derive everything else from would be appropriate. - Owen From myxiplx@googlemail.com Tue May 12 07:00:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F9775013C for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 07:00:39 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3537 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mGJGZU9kECaj for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 07:00:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7F617500B4 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 07:00:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so3797935ewy.15 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 00:00:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vdcFHYsla5WMkjkqacW5cQ0wp4iktYZnTGLCaWUBbXs=; b=IwGumVBUDQiFc/6T0XQRWDOL8ooJDbAlddpxevjp0h5DdYEzo/Rw8eUqMpyYYmAGD9 /DYJAYnCGVGJHlm5fYqckJxIjZkhoB5JT/7xPaGFqmrgVtvqCDvjKfXsDal+f8aiX5oz bkyW4U6HBnwWzzIzbicuqhFgTSpqBNoTi7CJw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=SSZxA0Uio7UBmAaALeB3BHabp+QLFrE1Drpr4awRr5A8ZelGPMHqFE+abmhGwe3mZw eRWTvJyVZ8anmnSgz37SFe49VYdzfHjN3lHKBECHqdNimG7XYVYavutW6V3EsgkrmiZH mVdNxXag84nmFg9XCy69K5OyD0vEy4Eg7HxJs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.28.85 with SMTP id f63mr3765040wea.142.1242111619090; Tue, 12 May 2009 00:00:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7b160d240905110137t53dc4c6asd114072be059dcae@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905110227g6174a24eta5b4eff181f2f3c0@mail.gmail.com> From: Ross Smith Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 07:59:59 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905112359i3a5bfac9j9d83414e9ea7016c@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Thoughts on window sizing To: Greg K Nicholson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 07:00:40 -0000 On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Greg K Nicholson wrote: > On the subject of resizing: what is the use-case for it?=97why do we > need to be able to resize windows to arbitrary sizes? I would say that there are quite a few reasons to keep it around: 1. Familiarity - everybody is used to this, anything else would feel alien. 2. Freedom - My personal feeling is that enforced sizing would feel restrictive. People like to feel that they are in control. Yes, the UI could do with helping them tile windows more easily, but I think this needs to be in a relatively subtle way. 3. Unknown reasons - There may be a myriad of other reasons why somebody wants a window 'just so'. Flexibility for the user to do what they want is important. To give an example of an 'unknown' reason, if somebody has a fixed size window open for some program, they may be resizing the other windows around it. > Obviously, sometimes you want to see multiple windows side-by-side, > which is a good argument for tiling (instead of maximisation all the > time), but doesn't require arbitrary sizing. > > Idea 1: As a compromise between free-resizing and enforced tiling, we > could allow windows sized (only) to twelfths of the screen width or > height. So when resizing (using the familiar UI), the window edges > always snap to the nearest twelfth. I propose twelfths in particular > because this allows having two, three or four equally-sized windows > side-by-side. > > Idea 2: Imagine if window-list buttons had tick-boxes: all of the > ticked windows show tiled (in some sensible arrangement). Different > sets of windows can be ticked on different workspaces. Clicking the > main part of a button ticks that window and unticks all others, > leaving just that window occupying the whole screen=97much like how a > tab bar works. (I'm not sure, however, how this would apply to > whatever gnome-shell replaces the window list with.) Hmm, I quite like that idea. I'm just not sure how it could be made to work. What happens if the UI picks a layout I don't like? There are many ways to tile even three windows: 1. three windows tiled horizontally 2. three windows tiled vertically 3. Two on the left, one to the right 4. Two on the right, one on the left 5. Two above, one below 6. One above, two below And in all six of those, each of the three windows can be in any position. So that's 36 possible arrangements. How can a window manager guess which one of those I want to use? It's almost impossible for it to guess correctly, and if it guesses wrong 35 times out of 36 it's more of a hindrance than a help. Don't get me wrong, I do like the idea of automatically tiled windows, I've just no idea how it could work without cluttering up the UI. > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > From myxiplx@googlemail.com Tue May 12 07:37:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 887B4750146 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 07:37:16 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3543 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jJ6DPvsw-nnO for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 07:37:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 041CE750063 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 07:36:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so3811474ewy.15 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 00:36:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=3wDuoRJi3Cd/y61b2bbqPc4STLlYbD3NOIXtluJG9bM=; b=m/Yj5Fyh+QfZDKzckppzn7yME8LlX0BUs4MCkxEAIOaNLQ0Velm1Y8CTP8Xxu77pES M68mQpZsGzqk1OMLu6mkHFcV5kePwUITmnLzqOy2q5dmErUL3ZiNqVH5w+xCHPYnJAzt Ta+rWyTl0y62Bg7bov7EoJ7aXqOIcmXP/1eyI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Kr0jKbcfEFKjJyD4Go5OsPxBO+GGYU9fVdB1mIOIG8Hz1SJqdT+gRUqDf7hfmvlt4l YnYZKC4h6GWzk+RqRSet7NTUfJhhQc8Mu2DgYSXeiChR87t/purbfW3kUZyJZmW9mB/z aty7yNIEZbCh7SAuE0Qwrb7+Xz6J/88a7FRE8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.11.84 with SMTP id 62mr3415090wew.148.1242113812356; Tue, 12 May 2009 00:36:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1242080472.3201.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <7b160d240905110044s3b83dde4v523f4409cab1a3e4@mail.gmail.com> <1242080472.3201.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> From: Ross Smith Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 08:36:32 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905120036i5fa34c1cqb24295aafd45c783@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Feature request: Preferences, animation & speed settings To: Owen Taylor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 07:37:16 -0000 Hmm, I'm going to disagree with you here (although I will concede that you probably know a *lot* more than this than me). Let me see if I can explain my thinking: On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Owen Taylor wrote: > On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 08:44 +0100, Ross Smith wrote: >> Hi guys, >> >> Could I make a request for some kind of nice GUI to set animation >> speed preferences, possibly with an eye towards being able to choose >> type of animation in the long term. >> >> I love the way compiz allows you to tweak everything easily with ccsm, >> which to my untrained eye looks like a modular design, so it's very >> easy for it to manage any setting they add. > > gnome-shell will obviously be more configurable in the future than it is > now, since now it's not configurable at all. :-) Wohoo! :-D > But adding a preference is generally speaking something we do in GNOME > as the last resort. For a detailed discussion of the cost of adding > preference, see: > http://ometer.com/free-software-ui.html Fair enough, even without reading that I can agree with this in principal, and understand the general concept behind it. To get a consistent UI throughout you have to have something solid to lead from (and this has always been one of Windows strengths). > In this case, if we immediately add a preference for the speed of the > animation, then we've solved a problem for the small group of users that > are annoyed, that can figure out why they are annoyed, and sufficiently > annoyed to go track down the preference to change it. But we've left > everybody else out. So why have an 'Appearance' menu, where people can choose their theme, background, fonts & colours? I don't see how animation preferences are any more complicated, and in fact I think they would fit very well in the appearance menu. If the Appearance menu had an 'Animations' tab, which allowed the user to choose between the standard sets, and an Advanced button to define and tweak sets, I think that would be pretty much perfect. > So, maybe the timings are just too slow in general (they are, but not > sure if speeding them up completely resolves the problem). Maybe the > timings should speed up as you gain familiarity with the shell. Maybe we > can actually detect the tolerance for speed of the user by watching how > fast they mouse and how fast they double click. > > And then when every other option is exhausted, we can go back and see if > adding a small number of preferences is the right way to do it. There's > no way we'd want to add separate preferences for the speed of going to > the overlay and the speed of switching desktops, but maybe a single > "animation speed" slider that we derive everything else from would be > appropriate. Now these paragraphs are where I disagree. Firstly, I'm quite happy with the speed of the overlay - there's a delay launching applications anyway so it doesn't get in the way. And since loading the overlay and switching workspaces are fundamentally different actions, why should their speed be linked? Secondly, while I like the idea of detecting tolerances, I can't see how that is anything other than more complex than just letting the user choose a speed they like. If you guess wrong (which you will do often), you're going to annoy users, changing something that they can't put right. It's going to need complex monitoring, careful algorithms, and you're still going to annoy people. So, let me make the case for a set of preferences. Firstly, I should be clear that I'm going to purely talk about animation preferences (which I think is a reasonable compromise). The way I see it, the choice of animation and the speed of the animation have no real effect on the consistency of the UI. These are transient items. Software isn't going to be developed to work with them, programs are not affected by their speed. So allowing the user to change the speed or type of animation has little effect on the consistency of the design. Now, the reason I think flexibility would be good is that I can see your users having wildly different needs. Take these three cases as an example: 1. My gran. Old folks don't have the best eyesight or reflexes, and they're often not the most competent of computer users. They need as much help as we can give them to ensure that they are comfortable with the interface, and understand what's going on. For that reason, the default interface needs to be set to a comfortable speed, where the animations are obvious, and are used to guide the user and help them understand what is happening. You're potentially teaching some very new users all about workspaces, and a new way of managing their programs. This is pretty much where I think gnome-shell is aiming at right now (and where I actually think it's doing pretty good job). The one thing I think that could be improved here is the transition between workspaces - the programs float all over the place, which kind of kills the idea of workspaces being entities in their own right. The compiz cube gets this spot on in my opinion, rotating everything round, desktop background, programs and all. It's something that everybody can get their head around and grasp easily. 2. Demonstrations Here I'm talking about youtube demonstrations, and shop counter demos, and it's where Compiz really shines. Flashy effects might be annoying once you've used the computer for a while, but they add a real 'wow factor' to the desktop. I've converted quite a few windows users at work by showing them compiz. Please don't underestimate the impact a flashy set of effects has on the uptake of Linux. 3. Power users Now I'm talking about myself. I already understand workspaces, windows and task switching. What I want is an interface thats as unobtrusive and fast as possible. Yes, I still appreciate the visual clues that come with a well designed interface, but any sluggish or bouncy animations are likely to annoy me. To give a quick example, with compiz, my desktop cube rotates to a new face in around 1/10 of a second. Because it's not having to move any windows, and the rotation happens for an entire workspace at once, it's actually quicker and snappier with compiz on than with it off. Oh, and I can still use ctrl+alt+drag to show off the cube effects when I'm converting windows users :-) Now, all three sets of users have very different requirements. I don't see how you can possibly have one group of settings that suits all three. However, all three can fundamentally use the same desktop. The only difference between 1 and 3 is the speed of the animations. And the only difference between 1 and 2 is the choice of animation. And that is why I feel that pluggable animations, and a generic settings editor (that's capable of storing pre-set configurations) is a big win. While pluggable animations is probably a fair bit of work, I think it's worth considering firstly for the impact these animations can have on sales, and secondly because I would like to think it's a way you could bring the compiz developers on board to work with gnome. However, preferences for the speed of the animations is something that I think should be far simpler, and that I personally can't see a downside for. If implemented as a generic framework, it should be something that can easily be applied to any animation. All these settings are there for animations anyway, all you're doing is clearly defining which variables can be tweaked and what their upper and lower limits are. If nothing else it should help with usability testing as you can hand gnome-shell over to usability testers and experts, and they can tweak the values themselves on the fly, rather than leaving all that to the developers. Ross PS. I do quite like the idea of speeding up animations slightly as the user gets used to things. Maybe have 4 default sets: beginner, normal, flashy, advanced. You could have the system automatically transition from beginner to normal after a couple of weeks or something, or could have it ask the user if they would like the animations speeded up? From ebassi@linux.intel.com Tue May 12 10:32:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE8AA750006 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 10:32:14 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [16384:50:1:48:M1460,S,E:P:?:?], (link: ethernet/modem), [192.55.52.89] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tg3Y6DnQB+3Q for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 10:32:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fmsmga101.fm.intel.com (mga05.intel.com [192.55.52.89]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B21DF75002F for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 10:31:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fmsmga002.fm.intel.com ([10.253.24.26]) by fmsmga101.fm.intel.com with ESMTP; 12 May 2009 03:20:41 -0700 X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.41,181,1241420400"; d="scan'208";a="456338252" Received: from unknown (HELO [143.185.76.198]) ([143.185.76.198]) by fmsmga002.fm.intel.com with ESMTP; 12 May 2009 03:26:25 -0700 Subject: Re: GNOME Shell and GNOME-2.28 From: Emmanuele Bassi To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1242078851.3201.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1242078851.3201.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Intel Open Source Technology Center Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 11:29:02 +0100 Message-Id: <1242124142.4471.6.camel@sprite.home.invalid> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 10:32:15 -0000 On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 17:54 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > Performance: gnome-shell needs to perform well enough that it > will be usable for a wide range of people. Roughly speaking, > this means that it needs to be competitive with Compiz in > it's graphical demands and resource utilization. > > This will require work with X to determine what cards and drivers > it can run on reasonably; to indentify bugs and performance > problems, and get them fixed. it'd be great if gnome-shell could give feedback to the clutter team as to where the performance issues of the shell are blocking on clutter itself. in the coming weeks, pre and post 1.0.0, the clutter team will work on stabilization and performance improvements. we've been profiling and instrumenting most of the stack but obviously real world use cases are the best platform for finding out eventual bottlenecks. > Accessibility: Full accessibility support is *not* a goal for > the 2.28 version of gnome-shell, however, we need to make sure > that things are on track to get it there for 2.30/3.0. This > will require review of accessibility support being developed > for Clutter. this is currently being worked on by the fine people at Igalia: http://lists.o-hand.com/clutter/2726.html a talk on the subject has been proposed (and accepted) for this year's GUADEC. we're willing to host that project on clutter-project.org to allow easier integration with core and the rest of clutter's integration libraries. ciao, Emmanuele. -- Emmanuele Bassi, Senior Engineer | emmanuele.bassi@intel.com Intel Open Source Technology Center | http://oss.intel.com From mike@hingston.demon.co.uk Tue May 12 14:09:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA3C750069 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 14:09:37 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (NAT!) (up: 2110 hrs), (distance 20, link: BT DSL (?)), [62.49.20.84] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vh8YIEgXo-ty for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 14:09:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from charlotte.hingston.demon.co.uk (hingston.demon.co.uk [62.49.20.84]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710BE750068 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 14:09:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from charlotte.hingston.demon.co.uk ([10.0.3.4] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by charlotte.hingston.demon.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1M3sgF-00082F-8a for gnome-shell-list@gnome.org; Tue, 12 May 2009 15:10:03 +0100 Subject: Re: Thoughts on window sizing From: Mike Bursell To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905112359i3a5bfac9j9d83414e9ea7016c@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905110137t53dc4c6asd114072be059dcae@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905110227g6174a24eta5b4eff181f2f3c0@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905112359i3a5bfac9j9d83414e9ea7016c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 15:09:19 +0100 Message-Id: <1242137359.4823.7.camel@protagonist> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 14:09:37 -0000 On Tue, 2009-05-12 at 07:59 +0100, Ross Smith wrote: > On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Greg K Nicholson wrote= : > > On the subject of resizing: what is the use-case for it?=E2=80=94why do= we > > need to be able to resize windows to arbitrary sizes? >=20 > I would say that there are quite a few reasons to keep it around: >=20 > 1. Familiarity - everybody is used to this, anything else would feel alie= n. >=20 > 2. Freedom - My personal feeling is that enforced sizing would feel > restrictive. People like to feel that they are in control. Yes, the > UI could do with helping them tile windows more easily, but I think > this needs to be in a relatively subtle way. >=20 > 3. Unknown reasons - There may be a myriad of other reasons why > somebody wants a window 'just so'. Flexibility for the user to do > what they want is important. The very idea of not being able to resize windows fills me with dread. Here are some reasons: 1. sizing of documents: some I need to read at particular sizes, and I need to be able to resize the window they're in, and not scroll around all the time 2. sometimes I'm referring to one window, and doing things in another: I'll make the first one the right size so that I can read what's going on, and but have my main focus as the (big) window. 3. video formats: need I say more? 4. looking at images of varying sizes 5. different sized screens, with different resolutions, require different sized windows (and I'll drag them across desktops and then resize as I wish 6. need I go on...? -Mike. From otaylor@redhat.com Tue May 12 16:01:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90D76750068; Tue, 12 May 2009 16:01:52 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.752 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.752 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=1.770, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, TW_JH=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) (NAT!) (up: 9043 hrs), (distance 14, link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [66.187.237.31] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kz3ZQlsQVIJK; Tue, 12 May 2009 16:01:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx2.redhat.com (mx2.redhat.com [66.187.237.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E0C7500CA; Tue, 12 May 2009 16:01:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (int-mx2.corp.redhat.com [172.16.27.26]) by mx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n4CG1bed023057; Tue, 12 May 2009 12:01:37 -0400 Received: from ns3.rdu.redhat.com (ns3.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.255.199]) by int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4CG1aQ7018297; Tue, 12 May 2009 12:01:36 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sebastian-int.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.221]) by ns3.rdu.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n4CG1ZEQ005280; Tue, 12 May 2009 12:01:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Finishing the mutter rename From: Owen Taylor To: Tomas Frydrych In-Reply-To: <4A03F089.1030805@linux.intel.com> References: <1241731328.13250.82.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4A03F089.1030805@linux.intel.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 12:01:34 -0400 Message-Id: <1242144094.6513.96.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 172.16.27.26 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org, Thomas Thurman X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 16:01:52 -0000 On Fri, 2009-05-08 at 09:42 +0100, Tomas Frydrych wrote: > > The other option would be to split data out of Metacity into say, a > > gnome-wm-data that would have: > > > > - the GConf schemas (left as /apps/metacity) > > - all-keybindings.h > > - Themes > > - The theme parts of libmetacity-private (libgnome-wm-theme?) > > > > That sounds conceptually appealing, but the gnome-wm-data wouldn't be > > parallel installable with existing Metacity (because of schema > > conflicts), which is a problem for people trying out Mutter. So, for > > now, I think we should just require Metacity to be installed; it would > > be very easy to switch to the gnome-wm-data approach later. > > I really do not want Mutter to have Metacity dependency; we need a > solution that can work for distribution, not just for developers > testing. Having a separate gnome-wm-data package is lot better solution > -- can we not make it in a way that people need to either have the > gnome-wm-data OR Metacity installed ? OK, thinking this through in a lot of detail. Scenarios: Distro ships GNOME-2.28 and gnome-shell/mutter along side Metacity Embedded distribution includes Mutter Developer jhbuilds gnome-shell on GNOME-2.26 User installs packages of gnome-shell/mutter on a GNOME-2.26 system Note: the jhbuild scenario is inherently a dire mess when it comes to GConf. There is no way I'm aware of to install an application in a non-system directory and have it pick up the right schemas and defaults. (Without going to an entirely jhbuild session with a jhbuild GConfd.) My only idea about how to fix this is to patch libgconf to support client-side reading of schemas. Approaches: Mutter duplicates the Metacity data, renaming them (Keys are /apps/metacity, themes are $theme/mutter-1) This does not work well if Metacity and Mutter are both installed for reasons described in my last mail: the GNOME preferences dialogs will get confused (Window, Appearance, and Keyboard Shortcuts) It also creates a maintenance problem for themes, since we don't want to have two copies. Mutter depends on Metacity This works well for all the above scenarios, except that it is ugly for an embedded distribution including Mutter and not Metacity. In that case, a package would have to be created that stripped down metacity into metacity-data. Data is moved from Metacity to gnome-wm-data, and not renamed. (Keys stay as /apps/metacity, themes are $theme/metacity-1) This works well for most of above scenarios - you can dual-install Metacity-2.28 and Mutter-2.28 both depending on gnome-wm; the embedded distro can ship gnome-wm. When you jhbuild, it's fine if the installed metacity schemas are picked up. A package of Mutter designed to be installed with GNOME-2.26 could use the schemas/themes installed by Metacity. The main disadvantages here are that we require changes to Metacity to accommodate it, and we get a confused dependency graph - Mutter depends on gnome-wm-data in some cases but not others. Data is moved from Metacity to gnome-wm-data, and renamed. (Keys changed to /apps/gnome-wm, themes are $theme/gnome-wm-1) Doing it this way avoids the confused dependency graph. It also is conceptually cleaner, since we don't have a non-metacity module calling stuff metacity. But, it requires a one-time key migration, and causes problems if installed along-side Metacity-2.26. (e.g., duplicated items in Keyboard Shortcuts) I'm still think the Metacity dependency is simplest, and I don't think the stripped down metacity package is to hard to create. But I'm not opposed to the no-renaming version of gnome-wm-data either, if Thomas is OK with it. - Owen From otaylor@redhat.com Tue May 12 17:17:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AB1D750006 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 17:17:22 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.791 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.791 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=1.808, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) (NAT!) (up: 9056 hrs), (distance 14, link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [66.187.237.31] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eAZ6nptzTX3l for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 17:17:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx2.redhat.com (mx2.redhat.com [66.187.237.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B98F750030 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 17:17:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (int-mx2.corp.redhat.com [172.16.27.26]) by mx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n4CHH3EN008329; Tue, 12 May 2009 13:17:03 -0400 Received: from ns3.rdu.redhat.com (ns3.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.255.199]) by int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4CHH3gV007188; Tue, 12 May 2009 13:17:03 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sebastian-int.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.221]) by ns3.rdu.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n4CHH2kK024256; Tue, 12 May 2009 13:17:02 -0400 Subject: Re: GNOME Shell and GNOME-2.28 From: Owen Taylor To: Emmanuele Bassi In-Reply-To: <1242124142.4471.6.camel@sprite.home.invalid> References: <1242078851.3201.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1242124142.4471.6.camel@sprite.home.invalid> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 13:17:01 -0400 Message-Id: <1242148621.6513.131.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 172.16.27.26 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:17:22 -0000 On Tue, 2009-05-12 at 11:29 +0100, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: > On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 17:54 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > > > Performance: gnome-shell needs to perform well enough that it > > will be usable for a wide range of people. Roughly speaking, > > this means that it needs to be competitive with Compiz in > > it's graphical demands and resource utilization. > > > > This will require work with X to determine what cards and drivers > > it can run on reasonably; to indentify bugs and performance > > problems, and get them fixed. > > it'd be great if gnome-shell could give feedback to the clutter team as > to where the performance issues of the shell are blocking on clutter > itself. in the coming weeks, pre and post 1.0.0, the clutter team will > work on stabilization and performance improvements. we've been profiling > and instrumenting most of the stack but obviously real world use cases > are the best platform for finding out eventual bottlenecks. I haven't seen a lot of evidence that Clutter micro-optimization is needed; getting a good sense of where bottlenecks are is hard with a GPU/CPU combination, but they seem to be more GPU side. (Some optimization possible around clipping and nested clips, I think.) I'm actually more worried about large scale optimizations that could require Clutter API changes. :-( - An integrated frame-synced update and display loop - Partial screen updates - Non-GPU based picking - Using the depth buffer or other means to reduce texture fetches from obscured windows. The integrated display loop is the first priority (and hopefully possible to jury-rig onto an unmodified clutter), since it's hard to quantify the situation without it, but beyond that, it's largely going to be a question of figuring out how to measure what kind of performance we are getting and where the bottlenecks are. > > Accessibility: Full accessibility support is *not* a goal for > > the 2.28 version of gnome-shell, however, we need to make sure > > that things are on track to get it there for 2.30/3.0. This > > will require review of accessibility support being developed > > for Clutter. > > this is currently being worked on by the fine people at Igalia: > > http://lists.o-hand.com/clutter/2726.html > > a talk on the subject has been proposed (and accepted) for this year's > GUADEC. we're willing to host that project on clutter-project.org to > allow easier integration with core and the rest of clutter's integration > libraries. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking that needs review. It's not clear to me that the way GAIL was done is very applicable to clutter. The basic idea of GAIL is that you can make a GTK+ API pretty much accessible by only looking at the widgets in it, without a need for extensive application involvement. So a loadable module But since so much of the meaning of a Clutter interface is added by the application different approaches may be needed. - Owen From ebassi@linux.intel.com Tue May 12 17:39:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 213E8750078 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 17:39:15 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.43 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.43 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, TW_VB=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [16384:49:1:48:M1460,S,E:P:?:?], (link: ethernet/modem), [134.134.136.24] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gQ83vYP8fjUH for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 17:39:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mga09.intel.com (mga09.intel.com [134.134.136.24]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEF30750064 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 17:38:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from orsmga002.jf.intel.com ([10.7.209.21]) by orsmga102.jf.intel.com with ESMTP; 12 May 2009 10:28:44 -0700 X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.41,183,1241420400"; d="scan'208";a="411756735" Received: from unknown (HELO [143.185.76.198]) ([143.185.76.198]) by orsmga002.jf.intel.com with ESMTP; 12 May 2009 10:46:38 -0700 Subject: Re: GNOME Shell and GNOME-2.28 From: Emmanuele Bassi Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <1242148621.6513.131.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1242078851.3201.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1242124142.4471.6.camel@sprite.home.invalid> <1242148621.6513.131.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Intel Open Source Technology Center Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 18:36:01 +0100 Message-Id: <1242149761.4471.28.camel@sprite.home.invalid> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:39:15 -0000 On Tue, 2009-05-12 at 13:17 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > (Some optimization possible around clipping and nested clips, I think.) Rob Bragg committed today a fix for clipping rectangular areas in window coordinates using glScissor -- used to make the pick a 1x1 area; this sped up considerably the picking: http://bugzilla.openedhand.com/show_bug.cgi?id=949 > I'm actually more worried about large scale optimizations that could > require Clutter API changes. :-( > > - An integrated frame-synced update and display loop the 1.0-integration branch is using a master clock which makes all animations vblank-limited using a MainLoop GSource that triggers redraws and timeline advancements as part of the redraw loop. we're planning on using this also to integrate the GStreamer video-sink inside clutter-gst with the master clock so that every video frame upload is performed within the redraw cycle. hopefully, I'll merge this branch this week, as soon as some GLX bugs have been ironed out. > - Partial screen updates > - Non-GPU based picking these will require an API break; we have code that moves to a CPU-based picking, but it's going to be 2.0 material. > The integrated display loop is the first priority (and hopefully > possible to jury-rig onto an unmodified clutter), since it's hard to > quantify the situation without it, but beyond that, it's largely going > to be a question of figuring out how to measure what kind of performance > we are getting and where the bottlenecks are. yes, absolutely. instrumentation and new profiling tools that reach the bottom layers of the stack (drivers and GPU registers) are absolutely required to identify the bottlenecks. we're working on that for the Intel GPUs. > > a talk on the subject has been proposed (and accepted) for this year's > > GUADEC. we're willing to host that project on clutter-project.org to > > allow easier integration with core and the rest of clutter's integration > > libraries. > > Yeah, that's what I'm thinking that needs review. It's not clear to me > that the way GAIL was done is very applicable to clutter. The basic idea > of GAIL is that you can make a GTK+ API pretty much accessible by only > looking at the widgets in it, without a need for extensive application > involvement. So a loadable module But since so much of the meaning of a > Clutter interface is added by the application different approaches may > be needed. it would also be good to get the a11y people involved to get their feedback. part of the tools are being modified for the WebKitGtk support so we might as well get people to review what's needed for Clutter to work. ciao, Emmanuele. -- Emmanuele Bassi, Senior Engineer | emmanuele.bassi@intel.com Intel Open Source Technology Center | http://oss.intel.com From jaap.haitsma@gmail.com Wed May 13 06:35:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69E15750080 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 06:35:42 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 5906 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.207] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dwGFVrEQChqc for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 06:35:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f207.google.com (mail-bw0-f207.google.com [209.85.218.207]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C685750101 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 06:35:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so415586bwz.15 for ; Tue, 12 May 2009 23:35:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=eTGXBiZMTlrtZZiX47D6MQijopvtbbIIvT0ZgRP1RhU=; b=p6SkTASfdL5A3S+Lp45FEwUxNmH+i0HQ43csevg2kgQygJhhFh0j1IFbrhb5T1b8Pv G0twHiyXc8e6+gf41l+FE65bqWJJnxIecVTG4t3soSKJ/b+FKCZgYp0veGjJ7jiaBXsk 1ZWP2N0QHiU8tzx7Xeyzgi/sZtaFlp4zOFGdk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=gSnOAsY36WcInelxaKKAQ1t79r2K3DOdondLGOCP+VbPxuDyBTgUKwPwMqO91MVJtR JyYPUNc9fChhrvZzDIx/BehLjSjFmSHPUSrPa+2MIreidyCNJ5tWaBeCA5MlW409+KT6 /sOAqllmx30DllnK7mHaEtaQxEdQ5DcbKvQzw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: jaap.haitsma@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.62.68 with SMTP id w4mr571068bkh.122.1242196526127; Tue, 12 May 2009 23:35:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:35:26 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 44966672e026cc28 Message-ID: <8a8adccc0905122335w7e043975s5791ad7f88a224e5@mail.gmail.com> Subject: GNOME Shell and Online Desktop From: "Jaap A. Haitsma" To: gnome-shell-list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 06:35:42 -0000 Hi, Are there any ideas on incorporating ideas of the Online Desktop into GNOME Shell? The online desktop projects seems to have stalled. No more commits since last October. However the goal of Online Desktop is a good one in my opinion "The goal of the GNOME Online Desktop is to adapt the desktop to become the perfect window for online applications like GMail, Photobucket, Facebook, EBay, Wikipedia, and countless others that user and developer momentum is shifting towards" For instance if we can make web applications (gmail, facebook etc) be part of the applications menu (like mozilla prism) or display web widgets (like igoogle) on your desktop would be very cool features for GNOME 3.0 Jaap From jhs@jsschmid.de Wed May 13 07:01:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4667C75007D for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 07:01:53 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) (up: 7558 hrs), (distance 21, link: ethernet/modem), [85.214.61.233] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1M4VW1ofWGi6 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 07:01:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from jsschmid.de (jsschmid.de [85.214.61.233]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 056507500C8 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 07:01:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [192.168.1.139] (ppp-88-217-109-222.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.109.222]) by jsschmid.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31AB621A81B0; Wed, 13 May 2009 07:01:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: GNOME Shell and Online Desktop From: Johannes Schmid To: "Jaap A. Haitsma" In-Reply-To: <8a8adccc0905122335w7e043975s5791ad7f88a224e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <8a8adccc0905122335w7e043975s5791ad7f88a224e5@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-CV0ClxtcrXsz8apLRQj6" Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:01:27 +0200 Message-Id: <1242198087.4074.4.camel@Obelix> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Cc: gnome-shell-list X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 07:01:53 -0000 --=-CV0ClxtcrXsz8apLRQj6 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! > For instance if we can make web applications (gmail, facebook etc) be > part of the applications menu (like mozilla prism) or display web > widgets (like igoogle) on your desktop would be very cool features for > GNOME 3.0 Well, I kind of disagree here. I think we should go more the way that Benjamin proposed yesterday (http://blogs.gnome.org/otte/2009/05/12/vision/). That is: - share preferences -> make the desktop look the same everywhere - make e-mail/im working on all systems as if you were local (but do not depend on some proprietary web-app) - add calibration features to applications where it makes sense I don't agree so much in sharing the home directory because this could quickly become rather annoying, but allowing to share gconf/dconf in the first place could be nice. This is also rather low-volume so we could possibly have infrastructure for it (on GNOME servers or on distribution's servers). Regards, Johannes --=-CV0ClxtcrXsz8apLRQj6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkoKcEQACgkQAvZZn2XJ+bNaqgCbBg+9LFr8nr9gHK5sHP5wm5pb e+YAoKTRrAv/XfmIPngjgrRRV2wyPp+R =r89h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-CV0ClxtcrXsz8apLRQj6-- From aantny@gmail.com Wed May 13 08:01:47 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 314C775007D for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:01:47 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 2550 hrs), (distance 14, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.226] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wdEnY7qT5yvl for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:01:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f226.google.com (mail-fx0-f226.google.com [209.85.220.226]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 826A075007B for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:01:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so448723fxm.15 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 01:01:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=goskXyr8g+hfMCY+lLwm7/CRrvdRQzgg3bKI88RXtxo=; b=jxevORz1S2cOBqVhVFh6wF/V+ZEYPETpa1xdD9SJ0WJLY7l9ZnTAqa//wdkMW2VhVU hHOVjrm7HbEIl+cO2/zIvYZSxTfRScmXE88HHYRqFjiCoFUM4dRoU5P3Qj/j/bXfqcQN gP5pQUf4f07RGHsGpGJgG7ANZr7ieIw4rxXy0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=AkhORdTHeNRo97Tpp0ZSUF3HjjgVPPCh8BzrKb0yH65pQnmqsrlsmEkMMsK/h+Xwh6 QJ91ElVDDXkjtmuyLBCss6XOr+dgl7UyC0vrnyDilDHAhK8hFOJf+zMj0JLR5RQ5zAXj TKsZkElD36cO2aiceqLSmS1dro9LMni844TP0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.79.5 with SMTP id c5mr878445fgb.20.1242201686976; Wed, 13 May 2009 01:01:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1242198087.4074.4.camel@Obelix> References: <8a8adccc0905122335w7e043975s5791ad7f88a224e5@mail.gmail.com> <1242198087.4074.4.camel@Obelix> Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:01:26 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: GNOME Shell and Online Desktop From: Natan Yellin To: Johannes Schmid Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd241824aa90b0469c69ee3 Cc: gnome-shell-list X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:01:47 -0000 --000e0cd241824aa90b0469c69ee3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Johannes Schmid wrote: > Hi! > > > For instance if we can make web applications (gmail, facebook etc) be > > part of the applications menu (like mozilla prism) or display web > > widgets (like igoogle) on your desktop would be very cool features for > > GNOME 3.0 > > Well, I kind of disagree here. I think we should go more the way that > Benjamin proposed yesterday > (http://blogs.gnome.org/otte/2009/05/12/vision/). > > That is: > - share preferences -> make the desktop look the same everywhere > - make e-mail/im working on all systems as if you were local (but do not > depend on some proprietary web-app) > - add calibration features to applications where it makes sense > > I don't agree so much in sharing the home directory because this could > quickly become rather annoying, but allowing to share gconf/dconf in the > first place could be nice. This is also rather low-volume so we could > possibly have infrastructure for it (on GNOME servers or on > distribution's servers). Sharing files and preferences is the goal of UbunuOne, which just went live yesterday. [1] UbuntuOne is currently just a Dropbox replacement, but there are plans to integrate it with GNOME apps and to sync preferences and app-specific data. (Disclaimer: The UbuntuOne server-side software is currently proprietary.) Natan [1] http://ubuntuone.com --000e0cd241824aa90b0469c69ee3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:01 A= M, Johannes Schmid <jhs@jsschmid.de> wrote:
Hi!

> For instance if we can make web applications (gmail, facebook etc) be<= br> > part of the applications menu (like mozilla prism) or display web
> widgets (like igoogle) on your desktop would be very cool features for=
> GNOME 3.0

Well, I kind of disagree here. I think we should go more the way that=
Benjamin proposed yesterday
(http://blogs.gnome.org/otte/2009/05/12/vision/).

That is:
- share preferences -> make the desktop look the same everywhere
- make e-mail/im working on all systems as if you were local (but do not depend on some proprietary web-app)
- add calibration features to applications where it makes sense

I don't agree so much in sharing the home directory because this could<= br> quickly become rather annoying, but allowing to share gconf/dconf in the first place could be nice. This is also rather low-volume so we could
possibly have infrastructure for it (on GNOME servers or on
distribution's servers).
Sharing files and preferences= is the goal of UbunuOne, which just went live yesterday. [1] UbuntuOne is = currently just a Dropbox replacement, but there are plans to integrate it w= ith GNOME apps and to sync preferences and app-specific data. (Disclaimer: = The UbuntuOne server-side software is currently proprietary.)

Natan

[1] http://ubuntuone.com=
--000e0cd241824aa90b0469c69ee3-- From myxiplx@googlemail.com Wed May 13 08:08:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAE3375007B for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:08:22 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 6049 hrs), (distance 16, link: (Google 2)), [74.125.78.26] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZOoVe2a-ThNW for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:08:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com (ey-out-2122.google.com [74.125.78.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2422A75006E for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:08:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id d26so196173eyd.9 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 01:08:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=c9xXALa1QOR8l/QCBbRPasAmnnnjuhb6m55lRVHvjYo=; b=Jliuo54ic1HGSreBYj6KYOaqWzC9cquHkEl5kB9VIAaPjXBW60GBXsO3Ij9xDrJZLg 5C4RrjQObj+ClqUrCE/GURubaALiEMvm1BmgdHB7kVhhg/cv/3GcBCvYezZzyi46ZhEd HiWWkFxbvBeoU3ovQJC23rpeJXoS4CU0Ols/o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=WrdPtI/HwCGXPMHKF7+Wub05pu3F7+1t46YDS563TamuwiWluWJTP9ugoVsorkxzbL IjkDHz80293+9CGsZsbGrUUAEh6kMfxok1PHUT84Ik9HW+r0OWxd5SiikrDU3IYf6t6x ZgQhEOObKG3+I1ga7Org42w1oYamM010KF6ZQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.29.210 with SMTP id i60mr292772wea.84.1242202082106; Wed, 13 May 2009 01:08:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1242198087.4074.4.camel@Obelix> References: <8a8adccc0905122335w7e043975s5791ad7f88a224e5@mail.gmail.com> <1242198087.4074.4.camel@Obelix> From: Ross Smith Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:07:42 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905130107l376f7b7j37b6fca649f74b51@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: GNOME Shell and Online Desktop To: Johannes Schmid , aantny@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:08:23 -0000 I'm going to agree and disagree with you both. I don't think gnome-shell should focus on integrating web apps - it looks to me like it's going to benefit so many programs that it would be artificially limiting the scope of the project to concentrate on something like that at this stage. I do agree that things like Google Chrome's desktop shortcuts for gmail, etc are nice touches, but I would suggest that's more a browser feature than something the desktop should be doing. However I'm all for a desktop gadget widget interface, but only if it doesn't detract from the other work going on here. One idea that might be worth considering is extending the gnome-shell overlay's search ability to include browser bookmarks. That would let you launch facebook, ebay, etc in the same way you launch regular applications. Would it be possible to make the search facility accept pluggable modules, so application developers like Mozilla can link into it? Responding to Johannes, I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of shared settings. An easy way to backup and restore settings yes, but sharing my home setup with work, when I have two 1920x1200 monitors at work just isn't going to work. And the thought of squeezing that setup onto a phone fills me with dread! The ability to share a list of recently opened documents might be handy though, and an ability to run programs from time to time with the same settings as home could be useful. If this were to be implemented, I think I'd like to see something like a 'location' indicator in one corner of the gnome-shell overlay, with an ability to switch between home, work, and mobile. That should let me: - Copy settings between the locations if I wish (for the entire desktop, or just individual programs) - Backup the settings to a central server (paid service, nominal fee) - Launch programs, using the settings for that location - Search for and open files from any location It sounds to me like you would either need all your computers switched on all the time, or a central upload service that stores a copy of your settings and documents. And if you have a central upload service, it's a backup and sharing service all in one. ... and Natan just emailed the details of UbuntuOne as I was writing this, which sounds pretty much like what I just suggested. Is there any chance of UbuntuOne supporting locations like I suggested earlier, or integrating it with gnome-shell? Ross On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Johannes Schmid wrote: > Hi! > >> For instance if we can make web applications (gmail, facebook etc) be >> part of the applications menu (like mozilla prism) or display web >> widgets (like igoogle) on your desktop would be very cool features for >> GNOME 3.0 > > Well, I kind of disagree here. I think we should go more the way that > Benjamin proposed yesterday > (http://blogs.gnome.org/otte/2009/05/12/vision/). > > That is: > - share preferences -> make the desktop look the same everywhere > - make e-mail/im working on all systems as if you were local (but do not > depend on some proprietary web-app) > - add calibration features to applications where it makes sense > > I don't agree so much in sharing the home directory because this could > quickly become rather annoying, but allowing to share gconf/dconf in the > first place could be nice. This is also rather low-volume so we could > possibly have infrastructure for it (on GNOME servers or on > distribution's servers). > > Regards, > Johannes > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > > From jhs@jsschmid.de Wed May 13 08:19:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCDD3750122 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:19:01 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) (up: 7571 hrs), (distance 21, link: ethernet/modem), [85.214.61.233] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c75rim10NPeh for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:18:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from jsschmid.de (jsschmid.de [85.214.61.233]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15DFA750113 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:18:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [192.168.1.139] (ppp-88-217-109-222.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.109.222]) by jsschmid.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B7FF21A81B0; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:18:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: GNOME Shell and Online Desktop From: Johannes Schmid To: Natan Yellin In-Reply-To: References: <8a8adccc0905122335w7e043975s5791ad7f88a224e5@mail.gmail.com> <1242198087.4074.4.camel@Obelix> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-EpbC3A/75lWO+XjR2278" Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:18:40 +0200 Message-Id: <1242202720.4077.1.camel@Obelix> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Cc: gnome-shell-list X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:19:02 -0000 --=-EpbC3A/75lWO+XjR2278 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! > Sharing files and preferences is the goal of UbunuOne, which just went > live yesterday. [1] UbuntuOne is currently just a Dropbox replacement, > but there are plans to integrate it with GNOME apps and to sync > preferences and app-specific data. (Disclaimer: The UbuntuOne > server-side software is currently proprietary.) Will it become open-source? And when? Because otherwise I would not propose= to integrate it into the Desktop though I am using Ubuntu. Regards, Johannes --=-EpbC3A/75lWO+XjR2278 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkoKgl0ACgkQAvZZn2XJ+bMHeACfSGcNIuKHBdveOHglDPVJW6Tz FvoAniEhUiCxuQXqU6gip1uhPFZPfvOm =g2qo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-EpbC3A/75lWO+XjR2278-- From jhs@jsschmid.de Wed May 13 08:20:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9458B75007D for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:20:53 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) (up: 7571 hrs), (distance 21, link: ethernet/modem), [85.214.61.233] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JHeTTTD14ArL for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:20:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from jsschmid.de (jsschmid.de [85.214.61.233]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C28F750080 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:20:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [192.168.1.139] (ppp-88-217-109-222.dynamic.mnet-online.de [88.217.109.222]) by jsschmid.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDDBA21A81B0; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:20:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: GNOME Shell and Online Desktop From: Johannes Schmid To: Ross Smith In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905130107l376f7b7j37b6fca649f74b51@mail.gmail.com> References: <8a8adccc0905122335w7e043975s5791ad7f88a224e5@mail.gmail.com> <1242198087.4074.4.camel@Obelix> <7b160d240905130107l376f7b7j37b6fca649f74b51@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-plukjNVRH3QbkpACi5/O" Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:20:36 +0200 Message-Id: <1242202836.4077.3.camel@Obelix> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Cc: gnome-shell-list X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:20:53 -0000 --=-plukjNVRH3QbkpACi5/O Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! > One idea that might be worth considering is extending the gnome-shell > overlay's search ability to include browser bookmarks. That would let > you launch facebook, ebay, etc in the same way you launch regular > applications. > Would it be possible to make the search facility accept pluggable > modules, so application developers like Mozilla can link into it? Good point! > Responding to Johannes, I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of > shared settings. An easy way to backup and restore settings yes, but > sharing my home setup with work, when I have two 1920x1200 monitors at > work just isn't going to work. Yes, you are right, it won't work for all settings so it should probably work on an application base somehow. But things like the Evolution E-Mail settings, browser bookmarks, etc. could easily be shared. Regards, Johannes --=-plukjNVRH3QbkpACi5/O Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkoKgtQACgkQAvZZn2XJ+bNRHgCffhxcoRsqew6TCTIyVE1br4q5 9XcAn0iwjesKyvLDGhFqCHt2TOXQm/Ro =hmTA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-plukjNVRH3QbkpACi5/O-- From aantny@gmail.com Wed May 13 08:43:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06F79750132 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:43:36 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 2557 hrs), (distance 14, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.226] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mPM5eAUQfD7V for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:43:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f226.google.com (mail-fx0-f226.google.com [209.85.220.226]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FBC9750126 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:43:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so469055fxm.15 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 01:43:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=rTtsmOVrqiUPEd5kb298ZWvw2VwKVT2zSafRJCHSD+0=; b=fXvCgkcPRu4yKK5PWIyb0yE+YLT9ZqrxWt+uIzjYtE9w4KELU9I1RHORyTTSanqOrY rNvBkLCkn7JLXD5Q1DNRk4QdzJEDjwfmhDjsvxJ3fN9b1RhPDekCzbVLOm2qxEExcR09 lHqnNssLw3k7XD1F3LIk3b34Q+K3f7l2/65MA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=MLCtFuYrY6F4d66n2ZVcFILvhA04Hvsao6nEVOeiJj7NTUhzMG/lSlg0EM6SK22Zpz 0rpxpDmM8uCLCFaQz96hyTT7716Zfw82hwIL5Z8TGcA6WKCYyfXL2PMYBCebndXwKp1r CCoZ+bpccnAipm9n02RruddpgNPQ8y7FYgX1c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.92.9 with SMTP id p9mr935854fgb.15.1242204199378; Wed, 13 May 2009 01:43:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1242202720.4077.1.camel@Obelix> References: <8a8adccc0905122335w7e043975s5791ad7f88a224e5@mail.gmail.com> <1242198087.4074.4.camel@Obelix> <1242202720.4077.1.camel@Obelix> Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:43:19 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: GNOME Shell and Online Desktop From: Natan Yellin To: Johannes Schmid Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd28d140ae1860469c73405 Cc: gnome-shell-list X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:43:36 -0000 --000e0cd28d140ae1860469c73405 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Johannes Schmid wrote: > Hi! > > > Sharing files and preferences is the goal of UbunuOne, which just went > > live yesterday. [1] UbuntuOne is currently just a Dropbox replacement, > > but there are plans to integrate it with GNOME apps and to sync > > preferences and app-specific data. (Disclaimer: The UbuntuOne > > server-side software is currently proprietary.) > > Will it become open-source? And when? Because otherwise I would not propose > to integrate it into the Desktop though I am using Ubuntu. Agreed. Right now, all of the client side software is open source and the server-side stuff is proprietary. The person I spoke with from Canonical implied that there's a _chance_ that the code will be released in the future, but that they don't currently plan on releasing it. The protocol is open, so I suppose it's possible to write an alternative server implementation. If someone is going to write online-synchronization code anyway, it makes sense to reuse Canonical's protocol. -Natan --000e0cd28d140ae1860469c73405 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 11:18 A= M, Johannes Schmid <jhs@jsschmid.de> wrote:
Hi!

> Sharing files and preferences is the goal of UbunuOne, which just went=
> live yesterday. [1] UbuntuOne is currently just a Dropbox replacement,=
> but there are plans to integrate it with GNOME apps and to sync
> preferences and app-specific data. (Disclaimer: The UbuntuOne
> server-side software is currently proprietary.)

Will it become open-source? And when? Because otherwise I would not p= ropose to integrate it into the Desktop though I am using Ubuntu.
Agreed.

Right now, all of the client side software is open s= ource and the server-side stuff is proprietary. The person I spoke with fro= m Canonical implied that there's a _chance_ that the code will be relea= sed in the future, but that they don't currently plan on releasing it.<= br>
The protocol is open, so I suppose it's possible to write an altern= ative server implementation. If someone is going to write online-synchroniz= ation code anyway, it makes sense to reuse Canonical's protocol.

-Natan
--000e0cd28d140ae1860469c73405-- From tf@linux.intel.com Wed May 13 08:51:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A4427500FF; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:51:54 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.722 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.722 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, TW_JH=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [16384:50:1:48:M1460,S,E:P:?:?], (link: ethernet/modem), [192.55.52.92] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XrXjoWrHklXU; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:51:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fmsmga102.fm.intel.com (mga10.intel.com [192.55.52.92]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 321917500CA; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:51:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fmsmga002.fm.intel.com ([10.253.24.26]) by fmsmga102.fm.intel.com with ESMTP; 13 May 2009 01:45:57 -0700 X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.41,186,1241420400"; d="scan'208";a="456706120" Received: from unknown (HELO [143.185.76.205]) ([143.185.76.205]) by fmsmga002.fm.intel.com with ESMTP; 13 May 2009 01:46:07 -0700 Message-ID: <4A0A8A27.7040706@linux.intel.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:51:51 +0100 From: Tomas Frydrych User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Finishing the mutter rename References: <1241731328.13250.82.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4A03F089.1030805@linux.intel.com> <1242144094.6513.96.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <1242144094.6513.96.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Thomas Thurman X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:51:54 -0000 Owen Taylor wrote: > Scenarios: > > Distro ships GNOME-2.28 and gnome-shell/mutter along side Metacity > > Embedded distribution includes Mutter > > Developer jhbuilds gnome-shell on GNOME-2.26 > > User installs packages of gnome-shell/mutter on a GNOME-2.26 system The scenario that I am concerned about is: Distribution ships Mutter long before Gnome 2.28 without Metacity Perhaps we can subsume it under the Embedded category. > Data is moved from Metacity to gnome-wm-data, and renamed. > (Keys changed to /apps/gnome-wm, themes are $theme/gnome-wm-1) > > Doing it this way avoids the confused dependency graph. It also is > conceptually cleaner, since we don't have a non-metacity module > calling stuff metacity. > > But, it requires a one-time key migration, and causes problems if > installed along-side Metacity-2.26. (e.g., duplicated items in > Keyboard Shortcuts) This would be my preferred final solution. Could we perhaps do this in two stages; first (now) migrate to the Metacity simple dependency, and at a later stage, in coordination with Metacity, move toward the renaming version of gnome-wm-data, so from the 2.28 release both Metacity and Mutter would use the new keys ? Tomas From myxiplx@googlemail.com Wed May 13 08:55:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BFFC7500FF for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:55:52 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3796 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kxw+SDiAQl3b for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:55:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24E297500CA for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 08:55:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so538153ewy.15 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 01:55:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ueuza9oUfSSwL7NqWS/KbnpndoH6yciPTucpeySLyag=; b=pbZkYLOLaZHuFSLXgjwrttvg83CmS9ueylF3Oh0Kr8/cM1M84utqkYMcHt/Dwj7he9 7VhAFeTgBVfxmOHC/p7+8yZ4EKj2kfvJpbuv3sNLbIn9+9gPuzZRSPcL6+me6C4HjJwv aXhKr9phdOONd+IPEoblhqnqVOay7ywnTjGWY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=CE9jRl+6z6dwZhfJpWxRwm0W9/Cl4UQ0q0Eizqqj3ZWbIY4ISUaaouwBdVPf84h2jY YxrD7loLfAIEzPZ2mIivjP628nwHMnujuIyU/TbJfLR4exkIKJpjFH6Jz+8sJShsipKM aoRfp24KxUwn4zDA8rxKMEP+rOEIxtVAqT09E= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.70.205 with SMTP id p55mr310649wed.55.1242204929331; Wed, 13 May 2009 01:55:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1242202720.4077.1.camel@Obelix> References: <8a8adccc0905122335w7e043975s5791ad7f88a224e5@mail.gmail.com> <1242198087.4074.4.camel@Obelix> <1242202720.4077.1.camel@Obelix> From: Ross Smith Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:55:09 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905130155o483d561bj2a91b7a3446ba3a6@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: GNOME Shell and Online Desktop To: Johannes Schmid Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:55:52 -0000 On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Johannes Schmid wrote: > Hi! > >> Sharing files and preferences is the goal of UbunuOne, which just went >> live yesterday. [1] UbuntuOne is currently just a Dropbox replacement, >> but there are plans to integrate it with GNOME apps and to sync >> preferences and app-specific data. (Disclaimer: The UbuntuOne >> server-side software is currently proprietary.) > > Will it become open-source? And when? Because otherwise I would not propose to integrate it into the Desktop though I am using Ubuntu. Who cares? Seriously, this is a 3rd party service. What I would propose is that the gnome-shell guys create a common framework that services like this can plug into to provide desktop, application & document synchronization. That way: - all the gnome-shell stuff is open source - it opens up the market for providing this kind of service to external competition (although it sounds like UbuntuOne may have an early advantage). - it lays the framework for open source developers to write their own services, so you could potentially run things like this on your own server, and have a full open source platform in the long run I'm quite happy with online services being closed source provided they are using a standard framework so it's possible to switch from one to another. > > Regards, > Johannes > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > > From myxiplx@googlemail.com Wed May 13 11:42:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF10750162 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 11:42:33 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3824 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IKGofEVgf+Ui for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 11:42:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCBA375010C for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 11:42:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so617697ewy.15 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 04:42:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oXotQt8pKZCJWyOLJD7Wb4peBq8l9hdiRvGfTOXgEqA=; b=vGY+YMTKc/ZK/RbBn0ubkmGG9WmX2t9pin/0F7GZdE0jeDq9MOF7ewLdYqTLnPE0GK Qu4Xuw7Z+CLz8rLS3wkdHpMDP35d2AwzCXw3rWAL3wIaH4QUb8LQNbB5aWuDLYoKxBwt pUnwxoJczo7gNoQjn0vX57vBHuNU4CwNatZ4k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=UBiU9saSQ/xKH7ngr1da/qn0zifY/xPJqdZX3slcRe3DXSeS+AoaEc6VhpbhJrG4ww n9DbiuM8pcd15NeQRZHSQroyowGwcFjlLlzJDROFZjNEDFlrSqmrdkmotQxE8FYOHf89 uNkIdiyFKQqsHwzIPlFbZ7o3Eu8HIH6XOUAjs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.70.205 with SMTP id p55mr371214wed.55.1242214933132; Wed, 13 May 2009 04:42:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Ross Smith Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 12:41:53 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905130441m351791b2w5f7a6ab16ab919a5@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Thoughts on window sizing - now tiling To: Mike Bursell , greg@gkn.me.uk, ankere@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 11:42:34 -0000 Hi guys, I've been thinking some more on this over the last few days, after reading the existing suggestions for window tiling: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3349/3442783741_75c5f67d0d_o.png I'm now thinking that with a good tiling interface, there's no need for any of this window sizing cleverness. I'm writing this up now, but could I ask for your thoughts on this: Have a dedicated 'tilling' mode: - Activated per workspace in the overlay - And potentially activated by a command, hot corner, or keypress while on the main workspace. It starts by fitting all windows to fit on screen, like Compiz Scale: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DbLVAqQHsu6U You're then free to drag any window around to stitch them together as shown in that picture above. The window you are dragging moves freely around the screen at all times (no snapping), but the part overlaying a window goes semi-transparent, and the edge to join is clearly highlighted. One example not shown in those pictures is dragging a window onto two already joined windows, which I think is also possible: http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/IGgJ7MzqVuwemE7s5JAfRg?authkey=3DGv1= sRgCJDK77aPmuTOpwE&feat=3Ddirectlink Once windows are linked in this way, they act as a coherent group: - The group is moved and sized as a whole - A coloured border around the group may help here, llike the compiz group background glow effect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DsULZKK7u3So) - Joins between windows are flexible - you can still resize any window, but the others stay stuck to it: http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/BGPmqvlCl6A9SYa3KjfmVw?authkey=3DGv1= sRgCJDK77aPmuTOpwE&feat=3Ddirectlink - Minimize & Maximise buttons are removed for all windows apart from the top right one, and now maximise or minimize the group as a whole (changing the button colours to match the coloured border may be a useful visual aid here). I would suggest that with this behaviour, and the existing 'stickiness' of application and screen edges, there is no need to do anything more with window sizing. You can even group a bunch of windows and tile them like this, and still have the other windows on that workspace free floating. What do you think? Ross On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Mike Bursell w= rote: > On Tue, 2009-05-12 at 07:59 +0100, Ross Smith wrote: >> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Greg K Nicholson wrot= e: >> > On the subject of resizing: what is the use-case for it?=97why do we >> > need to be able to resize windows to arbitrary sizes? >> >> I would say that there are quite a few reasons to keep it around: >> >> 1. Familiarity - everybody is used to this, anything else would feel ali= en. >> >> 2. Freedom - My personal feeling is that enforced sizing would feel >> restrictive. =A0People like to feel that they are in control. =A0Yes, th= e >> UI could do with helping them tile windows more easily, but I think >> this needs to be in a relatively subtle way. >> >> 3. Unknown reasons - There may be a myriad of other reasons why >> somebody wants a window 'just so'. =A0Flexibility for the user to do >> what they want is important. > > The very idea of not being able to resize windows fills me with dread. > Here are some reasons: > > 1. sizing of documents: some I need to read at particular sizes, and I > need to be able to resize the window they're in, and not scroll around > all the time > 2. sometimes I'm referring to one window, and doing things in another: > I'll make the first one the right size so that I can read what's going > on, and but have my main focus as the (big) window. > 3. video formats: need I say more? > 4. looking at images of varying sizes > 5. different sized screens, with different resolutions, require > different sized windows (and I'll drag them across desktops and then > resize as I wish > 6. need I go on...? > > -Mike. > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > From jeremy.perry@redhat.com Wed May 13 20:22:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4685E7500C8 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 20:22:08 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) (NAT!) (up: 9327 hrs), (distance 14, link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [66.187.237.31] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id btENWArucCYS for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 20:22:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx2.redhat.com (mx2.redhat.com [66.187.237.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EEA0750090 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 20:21:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (int-mx2.corp.redhat.com [172.16.27.26]) by mx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n4DKLmo8014322 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 16:21:48 -0400 Received: from ns3.rdu.redhat.com (ns3.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.255.199]) by int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4DKLmZG011993 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 16:21:48 -0400 Received: from [172.16.1.6] (vpn-12-233.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.12.233]) by ns3.rdu.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n4DKLljS024254 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 16:21:47 -0400 Message-Id: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> From: Jeremy Perry To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: New mockups for shell - round 2 Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 16:21:46 -0400 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 172.16.27.26 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 13 May 2009 20:26:09 +0000 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 20:22:08 -0000 Thanks Marina, Jon and the rest of the desktop team for your thoughtful feedback on the previous mockups. I've finally posted some new stuff based on this, hope you enjoy. http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternative02 The earlier iteration is linked at the top of that page as well. - Jeremy From jon.nettleton@gmail.com Wed May 13 20:45:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA49675006C for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 20:45:00 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 6349 hrs), (distance 14, link: (Google 2)), [74.125.92.24] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id drUf0IT4R06Q for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 20:44:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.24]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7374C750090 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 20:44:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 8so673215qwh.9 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 13:44:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:in-reply-to :references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XqQYFQKslQgS3Uw22bvksGb33ovvGpLKZzxuvaWD4yc=; b=KVctSbC1G9bHszk9Lrp4/vmk9q+6xDr5CTUF87ytOGRYofkgomIrzl1IyE7sFrvuMI nX6SuafXbeDL9kOCAGJR/KRYHIjc6ZJ1L+A7p6iKGlfD+AOu5Bl9vtz+uXcE6c+ZOdDH bBVimHs8g5bxjDY8PmvsX8FCuTcm8YW4Vg00w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id :mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=Xvm6z30ZiuBc4OTdYhNmyxLHuhiIXBSjl1gsxyp9kEybSQBtqEvPN6vnNgm+yUGRIW 0+STrg8s/lTZePFCcweJLofIDNklD/kvczTpJlbfreEz9luGjFjGDX0G2MN24Y0ux4CX CxyH54UbRuUvpAeTljv1ojJqZ1taK0EJGPVrY= Received: by 10.229.85.17 with SMTP id m17mr1220967qcl.43.1242247482258; Wed, 13 May 2009 13:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.42.69? (c-76-24-25-45.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [76.24.25.45]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 6sm1396038ywn.7.2009.05.13.13.44.40 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 13 May 2009 13:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 From: Jon Nettleton To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> References: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 16:44:37 -0400 Message-Id: <1242247478.3241.2.camel@birkoff> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.0 (2.26.0-1.fc10) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 20:45:00 -0000 On Wed, 2009-05-13 at 16:21 -0400, Jeremy Perry wrote: > Thanks Marina, Jon and the rest of the desktop team for your > thoughtful feedback on the previous mockups. I've finally posted some > new stuff based on this, hope you enjoy. > > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternative02 > Looking good Jeremy! I think that iteration is really starting to pull together a lot of the ideas bouncing around. FYI I will be offline for the rest of the week. I am heading to Denmark for the summer and am busy packing and such. Jon From ankere@gmail.com Wed May 13 20:55:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDC3B750076 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 20:55:17 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 6190 hrs), (distance 15, link: (Google 2)), [72.14.220.158] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yS2joFEtrxgl for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 20:55:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.158]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7988E75006C for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 20:55:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so335210fga.10 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 13:54:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:cc :in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version :x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DWKIbpmcN+N78ivaN5caFR7nv/u4Mt5bujndZTtszDI=; b=GPJYyWhjup1AJmb65BFzVV8QW7A3YtqMgPnElwLC1G5IX25v67g1cSKE0mOcd0TpOW 4P3pKj8Tz2YVj1xOAQIw/5qWwwWF9JwkBCBorjNt1agRcaqeG+U+8ruUb6td8ARdD08H 1qC7KJ1CpC7FEGdyCXJs6662IRDbdArxs6ZlM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:cc:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date :message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=tLtELUdIrpOkoKmJqPUhJ516QOuFoyN503ngTJAZ34jsqL27ipGXsffWwNlSwJN3Rk ijnr/554pkCp77zd31cLUXpuCeAVrBczY5yVrdibDYatmu8jXDUFRTzEjcbyP4NOKVir CZRa8apNadqKtGGuFVkmAoLK2ZHJ+9VtLNdz0= Received: by 10.86.33.10 with SMTP id g10mr1728159fgg.21.1242248098579; Wed, 13 May 2009 13:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?78.90.104.233? ([78.90.104.233]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e20sm3980082fga.25.2009.05.13.13.54.57 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 13 May 2009 13:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 From: Anton Kerezov To: Jeremy Perry In-Reply-To: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> References: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 23:54:58 +0300 Message-Id: <1242248098.20077.0.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 20:55:18 -0000 В 16:21 -0400 на 13.05.2009 (ср), Jeremy Perry написа: > Thanks Marina, Jon and the rest of the desktop team for your > thoughtful feedback on the previous mockups. I've finally posted some > new stuff based on this, hope you enjoy. > > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternative02 > These ones are really nice. Keep up the good work Jeremy! Anton From dylanmccall@gmail.com Wed May 13 21:17:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3E417500CD for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 21:17:22 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 5878 hrs), (distance 11, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.222.107] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ophn0BN2a1T1 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 21:17:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-pz0-f107.google.com (mail-pz0-f107.google.com [209.85.222.107]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67289750076 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 21:17:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: by pzk5 with SMTP id 5so366380pzk.13 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 14:17:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:in-reply-to :references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer; bh=dlDGsBi3yOm2c7KNhRJ00HfM69UkJyrhtcFSAU5sCcU=; b=hyBP8xMdbLhICB/MTjLTC6csfBPMNYHcTHkkQqGzBJKzRSa0IU3EBMj0Y0oZC4OiXD YpwCUeZ7wmh/cAbcybSJwjIHFxIreOnBIO2mGq5FEDTiwzRdqeEb6/5zcLFwIFEO0oeV D0NKyWA3QEDoYWlHv4P811a24Q58jepdr7y3c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id :mime-version:x-mailer; b=ZaooWsejS7x2VSsjj3pm2Wujalja2JHhWEuaio+esaUaFeNrP4n9Lpg5ydp6/oeyEZ 4rcSVSw7cfkSRipcCtZXvJ0Dl7GyLZiW9Se5Ga1FNoibDoRzYM0/03nOTWO7uqwtDa1I 3rHScsdsd/0X4NLp1F4UOznbpmgsxpT6NL8GI= Received: by 10.114.181.6 with SMTP id d6mr1424761waf.8.1242249424139; Wed, 13 May 2009 14:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.120? (d154-20-149-195.bchsia.telus.net [154.20.149.195]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v25sm292710wah.32.2009.05.13.14.17.03 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 13 May 2009 14:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 From: Dylan McCall To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> References: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-PREU2UFBTs7Ehqc1tSIe" Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 14:17:01 -0700 Message-Id: <1242249421.2646.28.camel@dylan-laptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 21:17:23 -0000 --=-PREU2UFBTs7Ehqc1tSIe Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2009-05-13 at 16:21 -0400, Jeremy Perry wrote: > Thanks Marina, Jon and the rest of the desktop team for your =20 > thoughtful feedback on the previous mockups. I've finally posted some =20 > new stuff based on this, hope you enjoy. >=20 > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternativ= e02 >=20 > The earlier iteration is linked at the top of that page as well. >=20 > - Jeremy Wow, those mockups are absolutely fantastic! Random few cents-worth from me: * This could do with a solid way for items in the overlay to demand attention. For example, if a new device is attached or a file downloaded (thus adding to the Downloads place) it would make sense for that item to be highlighted (and to look pretty in the process). * I love the "Get more games" idea. Having GNOME closer to package management is a wonderful thing. How about throwing menu editing in there, too? Maybe a "remove reference" and "uninstall application" button could be added to the the Info view for an application. * I love the file browsing stuff, but this is starting to tread into existing file manager territory. That could lead to some ugly things appearing if it isn't thought through completely. Now don't get me wrong, I like having file management in this view since it makes matters more streamlined and more organized (and the mockup at least looks awesome). It definitely needs to be consistently functional; not a special case for Recent Documents, but happening for any directory opened from the overlay, including Places and Devices. There needs to be a way to detach gnome-shell's built in file browser into a specific workspace as its own window. * With the Details view in mind, I now really hope that Nautilus does not make it through 3.0 without some serious revision. The two need to blend together nicely and share components until they are inseparable or you'll end up with some horrifying redundancy. Slightly less important: Save to Places in the search results view feels to me like "Save selected file to Places," which it of course is not. Bye, Dylan --=-PREU2UFBTs7Ehqc1tSIe Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkoLOM0ACgkQH38fupNe5XrJXQCeO29sFbYFU3C3XnoWcqEVPpf2 5acAnA+F4mOzNIIZ1M2lieG3Tl//7zli =34a/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-PREU2UFBTs7Ehqc1tSIe-- From marinaz@redhat.com Thu May 14 01:18:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59C4A750090 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 01:18:46 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) (NAT!) (up: 11141 hrs), (distance 11, link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [66.187.233.31] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s5j4nOZbhHwt for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 01:18:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 545D47500C9 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 01:18:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n4E1ISxF010799 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 21:18:28 -0400 Received: from mail03.corp.redhat.com (zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.5.47]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4E1IQXK032270; Wed, 13 May 2009 21:18:26 -0400 Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 21:18:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Marina Zhurakhinskaya To: Jeremy Perry Message-ID: <1686401817.908471242263906613.JavaMail.root@zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <1123301883.908451242263894573.JavaMail.root@zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.5.5.72] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 172.16.52.254 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 01:18:46 -0000 Hi Jeremy! These mockups are excellent! I am away until next Tuesday, but I look forward to implementing them when I am back! Thanks, Marina ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Perry" To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 4:21:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: New mockups for shell - round 2 Thanks Marina, Jon and the rest of the desktop team for your thoughtful feedback on the previous mockups. I've finally posted some new stuff based on this, hope you enjoy. http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternative02 The earlier iteration is linked at the top of that page as well. - Jeremy _______________________________________________ gnome-shell-list mailing list gnome-shell-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list From fosslistmail@googlemail.com Thu May 14 02:49:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2B6E750090 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 02:49:17 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 2882 hrs), (distance 14, link: (Google 2)), [74.125.46.30] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qEdtHMCmHcXM for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 02:49:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.30]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 293D8750024 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 02:49:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so532759ywj.63 for ; Wed, 13 May 2009 19:48:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lvCikEx7CunCmjfZ778W4HfzXiTysmU+NDjPOez+k+Y=; b=dG0Dq1KAg6Dx80gROSzoW0Iawbp/MFzNKEYE0qVKUIBwiHAmT58gICSiqKOVUNwm8X xkN/t1A3zl/csiX9hc7wf9lhjCXBUvDh+AYHEdIVy77zR3E2Y3+ogLGNUoDstXTkBhzO 1gkVlFRoJ5rAPzgkCmK5ur/e8RJn5odwlwvhc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=GHaKTUgMqcZbOPK5Zmxs6nwVeeQ3jG7o5cdDL3bfOBii3199f7OuHpWTzlbMQ3cpVV 7+mGzhv/30jPPUg7sjF7FR8C+aoFiSdzk/CA5Vmh7B0KcHCEcivXfTftBlxtcCsqCzxt fM/g6peuNKoV7TEH5OkWszXZdbGqHzDQdtHRI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.13.2 with SMTP id 2mr2384812anm.132.1242269338464; Wed, 13 May 2009 19:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:48:58 +0800 Message-ID: <2b0573450905131948x1e613ac9mb21a1bb8525a6b70@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Get rid of the scrollbars From: "foss[ilized]" To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 02:49:18 -0000 Just a thought: one of the ugliest graphical items I see on almost all of today's desktop environments is the scrollbar. I think it's time to get rid of scrollbars. With the push toward "touch" computing, the scrollbar becomes a hindrance rather than an aid to navigation. Users with large, wide or "clumsy" fingers are at a disadvantage when trying to click, press or drag a scrollbar to pan (move) a window up, down, left or right. I propose putting the navigation icons on the window itself. The arrows could be mere indicator arrows, directional triangles, or plus signs. The actual panning can be done by dragging the window itself. Alternatively, the arrows could be "small" icons located at the top, bottom, right, and left edges of the window that needs to be scrolled. Bringing the mouse pointer close to the edge of the screen or pointing at the arrow will magnify or enlarge the arrow, which would give the user a larger "clickable" area. From myxiplx@googlemail.com Thu May 14 09:10:47 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B697500B5 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:10:47 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 4039 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ssinVSHm53Tb for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:10:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E910175009E for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:10:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1268952ewy.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 02:10:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=G/7Rtsu7XKxukmRN1VThmbuebz44UcTymr8neBiDGEg=; b=FEd8JTfu7IjT9oaSEB5QWx4tKbaAXSij4mmLh5t4UBN7qf/N1k2uNKLw3TMO/W4+fw tyRQuGDswtBAAsMHVlFqBoMpaI8Z6RWe8z4h/+Ub+cCZcQfy+dkRRJVPAnh6HaFs6cYg B5iMxCXpRQLqfFNIy8oVCggtoMMkYlwuP956U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=oPOW3+v7hq8VUTn2hWZaxdM7exJu9KoD/JtHpDRSmLqTIl/vRhyf00I/cECZ48+3ZN e3+kL3aBRn0fLTLDiL/Pk6G7ZrFuuOd9V8ddAV9Ux3vUMa1wAE+oFgIXcp9DB+/+rZ6b ey3ptZ7DXs2fdmiLfhQDFexEjiqVzNoQIm5r0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.0.208 with SMTP id 58mr757026web.216.1242292228134; Thu, 14 May 2009 02:10:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> References: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> From: Ross Smith Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:10:08 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905140210q4fe4138as5747a3fe05dc036e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 To: Jeremy Perry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:10:47 -0000 There's no denying that these look fantastic, and there are some really nice ideas in here. However, I'm going to part from the crowd here and say that I actually prefer the current gnome-shell menu to the one shown. - This layout looks too busy to me, I like the simplicity of the original - While having just 7 programs shown may sound limiting, I'm finding that 99% of the time it just works (and I run a *lot* of software) - the limited number of items also encourages people to use search. - I also like the way the original gives equal weight to programs and documents, encouraging the use of the activities menu to directly open documents. With that said though, there are a few things though that are really, really well done: - I love the little information button, could I suggest a push-pin to pin people's favourite items too? - Love the categories & sorting - The recent document view is just superb, with everything in chronological order Now previously I've suggested making the search pluggable so you can searching things like firefox bookmarks. Having seen this, I'm thinking I wasn't going far enough. Firefox bookmarks are a great example of something that works as a pluggable 'program' - something you launch. Firefox history would be a great pluggable 'document', and I'd really like to have the option to include those in that recent document list. And looking at the recent document view, it appears you've covered how this would look to the user. I can think of a couple more things that would be useful though, and that are not listed here. With a pluggable framework, could you just display all registered categories? The full list of things I can think of that would be useful are: - documents (with sub-filters for types of document - images, documents, music, etc) - Browsing history - Emails - chat logs What I would also say is that an arrow to select just one type of document doesn't really work. I want to be able to pick a selection of things, not just one. So I might want to see all documents, emails and chats around a particular period. And to go a step further, I might then untick documents to just view emails and chats. There should be a smooth transition between selections, with items appearing in their right places in the list. Would it be possible to use the reverse of the window close animation for this? Have all the items appear at the same time, with the animation for each item being: - Start from a point of light in the middle - Expand that to a horizontal line - Expand that line vertically to the correct size, moving the other items in the list as this happens to create room. Finally, the file information pane is SUPERB. Absolutely stunning, and I like the way tagging is integrated within it. I've got a whole load of ideas myself, my graphics won't look anything like this impressive, but I'll try to get something over in the next few days for you all to look at. Ross On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Jeremy Perry wro= te: > Thanks Marina, Jon and =A0the rest of the desktop team for your thoughtfu= l > feedback on the previous mockups. I've finally posted some new stuff base= d > on this, hope you enjoy. > > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternativ= e02 > > The earlier iteration is linked at the top of that page as well. > > - Jeremy > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > From ferkiwi@gmail.com Thu May 14 09:38:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47FB17500CD for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:38:09 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.307 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.307 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 6177 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.207] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kjxd6wr+mOTx for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:38:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f207.google.com (mail-bw0-f207.google.com [209.85.218.207]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C497500C8 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:37:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so1104064bwz.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 02:37:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:reply-to:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZILNpcb1j/6E2Va82frVy+yjTZTc8BLP6VpLHBsmLOQ=; b=XcdAGNwHB94Jv8ZStDT8/XXxk7/i4Z9IDGgG6dN1FM3pGg7rbkL94OFSaGAJQk6CbR I+I6YzTx8sBG/p9vM7BqfhSg0lpuv8PyuiYJx9PH9sCvjYkG7PNOVth2Es7Z5lsAU04W Yc/4B1wByLINrSL1wBXI86N7Sn4dSd1Qx9q0w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Mgt+7hnbAelLO2uxy3hGYi2w8gcLskvaGLyVtFdj+BeEWt42/M8fzsRO2Y8hCaIe9s Wt4+/v0AGIFW/CDBuh8/JdVfw2xCtlte9dUI3vhyRJkuqfTkxYlxk/7J4cn+1HkJyqI5 lzo5j9K/xCGpdBzbbPtL80sbQgobLvx5Et8mc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.105.72 with SMTP id s8mr1512899fao.9.1242293873083; Thu, 14 May 2009 02:37:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1686401817.908471242263906613.JavaMail.root@zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> References: <1123301883.908451242263894573.JavaMail.root@zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> <1686401817.908471242263906613.JavaMail.root@zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> From: Fernando Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:37:33 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list Reply-To: ferkiwi+a@gmail.com List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:38:09 -0000 I like the filtering idea, although to me the left side panel looks bloated. Perhaps the items at the left side should be pluggable. In fact, with those pop down filters the whole left panel is not really that needed, since you can access all with just the searchbox. For example, many people would like to remove the "recents documents" because of privacy issues, since they are showed up so clearly that everyone will know what were you doing before in your comp. Maybe they would like to replace it with some other gadget. -- Fernando From aantny@gmail.com Thu May 14 09:40:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95DFA7500E2 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:40:28 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 6317 hrs), (distance 15, link: (Google 2)), [72.14.220.155] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4cQdQIsI+qLh for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:40:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.155]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07BDC7500B4 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:40:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so446674fga.10 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 02:40:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=d3Ds5vgknGm2ZlfOEqnYO7lJje+Gim+F5l9KOFW0clk=; b=NskDIhN1/ALOdSqoUJRjrCdNoGK+pDigl8eGmqudriryv3tcvUG0WHsFUg2WPehKZg LraJ0XN1INZuhVhrTnAkxJFOCPAOnxxOkWljK3v4oWeeYdZUr0wjxZ9aaq6x2suZfZDG clfuo9qfJF/z7WuWfI8KTxD9Jk0zO4zAmI1hA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=oB5ClCSWzwWVE28bYEWLeXA1Mw4o08qdiodabhO7ZbAXSkOFVGVH3HPGmMMl1+QjoG 2w8zOb6ibuJA8XB8gzh0IbgCc+ftSQyOjezBdliAI7t89CifnsXj47UWZBfLlIzGx7+/ s1eEWLLtXqrxQpJgXMJw6XkBLS7lANsVYKuBU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.59.2 with SMTP id h2mr2317137fga.30.1242294011237; Thu, 14 May 2009 02:40:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905140210q4fe4138as5747a3fe05dc036e@mail.gmail.com> References: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> <7b160d240905140210q4fe4138as5747a3fe05dc036e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:40:11 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 From: Natan Yellin To: Ross Smith Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd2457a3f15860469dc1da2 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:40:29 -0000 --000e0cd2457a3f15860469dc1da2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Ross Smith wrote: > There's no denying that these look fantastic, and there are some > really nice ideas in here. However, I'm going to part from the crowd > here and say that I actually prefer the current gnome-shell menu to > the one shown. > > - This layout looks too busy to me, I like the simplicity of the original > - While having just 7 programs shown may sound limiting, I'm finding > that 99% of the time it just works (and I run a *lot* of software) > - the limited number of items also encourages people to use search. > - I also like the way the original gives equal weight to programs and > documents, encouraging the use of the activities menu to directly open > documents. > > With that said though, there are a few things though that are really, > really well done: > > - I love the little information button, could I suggest a push-pin to > pin people's favourite items too? > - Love the categories & sorting > - The recent document view is just superb, with everything in > chronological order > > Now previously I've suggested making the search pluggable so you can > searching things like firefox bookmarks. > > Having seen this, I'm thinking I wasn't going far enough. Firefox > bookmarks are a great example of something that works as a pluggable > 'program' - something you launch. Firefox history would be a great > pluggable 'document', and I'd really like to have the option to > include those in that recent document list. > > And looking at the recent document view, it appears you've covered how > this would look to the user. I can think of a couple more things that > would be useful though, and that are not listed here. With a > pluggable framework, could you just display all registered categories? > > The full list of things I can think of that would be useful are: > - documents (with sub-filters for types of document - images, > documents, music, etc) > - Browsing history > - Emails > - chat logs That's exactly the goal of GNOME Zeitgeist- in fact, we already index all of the items that you mentioned and display them in chronological order. Siegfried Gevatter (RaintCT) will be working on adding a Zeitgeist-based interface to GNOME Shell during the upcoming GSoC. If you have any ideas for Zeitgeist, feel free to email us at gnome-zeitgeist-users@lists.launchpad.net -Natan --000e0cd2457a3f15860469dc1da2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:10 P= M, Ross Smith <myxiplx@googlemail.com> wrote:
There's no denying that these look fantastic, and there are some
really nice ideas in here. =A0However, I'm going to part from the crowd=
here and say that I actually prefer the current gnome-shell menu to
the one shown.

- This layout looks too busy to me, I like the simplicity of the original - While having just 7 programs shown may sound limiting, I'm finding that 99% of the time it just works (and I run a *lot* of software)
- the limited number of items also encourages people to use search.
- I also like the way the original gives equal weight to programs and
documents, encouraging the use of the activities menu to directly open
documents.

With that said though, there are a few things though that are really,
really well done:

- I love the little information button, could I suggest a push-pin to
pin people's favourite items too?
- Love the categories & sorting
- The recent document view is just superb, with everything in
chronological order

Now previously I've suggested making the search pluggable so you can searching things like firefox bookmarks.

Having seen this, I'm thinking I wasn't going far enough. =A0Firefo= x
bookmarks are a great example of something that works as a pluggable
'program' - something you launch. =A0Firefox history would be a gre= at
pluggable 'document', and I'd really like to have the option to=
include those in that =A0recent document list.

And looking at the recent document view, it appears you've covered how<= br> this would look to the user. =A0I can think of a couple more things that would be useful though, and that are not listed here. =A0With a
pluggable framework, could you just display all registered categories?

The full list of things I can think of that would be useful are:
- documents (with sub-filters for types of document - images,
documents, music, etc)
- Browsing history
- Emails
- chat logs
That's exactly the goal of GNOME Zeitgeist= - in fact, we already index all of the items that you mentioned and display= them in chronological order.

Siegfried Gevatter (RaintCT) will be w= orking on adding a Zeitgeist-based interface to GNOME Shell during the upco= ming GSoC. If you have any ideas for Zeitgeist, feel free to email us at gnome-zeitgeist-users@lists.launchpad.net

-Natan
--000e0cd2457a3f15860469dc1da2-- From aantny@gmail.com Thu May 14 09:47:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD6E7500C8 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:47:30 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 6318 hrs), (distance 15, link: (Google 2)), [72.14.220.153] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4nghrlyslJHh for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:47:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.153]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2808275009E for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:47:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so448008fga.10 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 02:47:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Mi3xezaxF8O/p2iSVRxndlhYZ8suLPP7/Fvg0vJaYuk=; b=KR6pzgPgIVo01ejlX1AZKZxaoHjjVev2dilfKmqsnmZSZL6PVDivErb76wAuY4KR5q eM9OYCKCK9kEP0wXe8zLOPFBzkw7zY0TqIiloJt8cuRvCdgRYHkehbbGzVKWT2Pzh6DY McBx6Bayk12us9QWnijzbF48ppF4PK8PrQikY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=gEGbtS49S1sC6rMtFJIx2EneRLcLP4HXbEfVAhXzOcNqh4hE52BvugJW5QGtX+DdaP f/J2/hnSDI2OaTYSzCb23WihPBQqa5fJcz4U9pLvMnMXg4BGTjJxS+FvWhtIfVf/dItF DJNThXW+lzkvj/PHfLAIiog7HWSTTH1yQBpEY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.91.3 with SMTP id o3mr2322485fgb.40.1242294431598; Thu, 14 May 2009 02:47:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1123301883.908451242263894573.JavaMail.root@zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> <1686401817.908471242263906613.JavaMail.root@zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:47:11 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 From: Natan Yellin To: ferkiwi+a@gmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd297784d49d10469dc363a Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:47:30 -0000 --000e0cd297784d49d10469dc363a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Fernando wrote: > For example, many people would like to remove the "recents documents" > because of privacy issues, since they are showed up so clearly that > everyone will know what were you doing before in your comp. Maybe they > would like to replace it with some other gadget. The recent documents are all viewable anyway via the Places-->Recent Documents menu. While it makes sense to let people delete items from the list if they want, but I don't think we need to be so concerned with privacy that we don't show the list at all. Recent documents are already tracked _anyway_ (see ~/.recently-used and ~/.recently-used.xbel) and if people are concerned about privacy then they should turn off the tracking at the source and not just complain about an interface to view their tracks. -Natan --000e0cd297784d49d10469dc363a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:37 P= M, Fernando <ferk= iwi@gmail.com> wrote:
For example, many people would like to remove the "recents documents&q= uot;
because of privacy issues, since they are showed up so clearly that
everyone will know what were you doing before in your comp. Maybe they
would like to replace it with some other gadget.
The recen= t documents are all viewable anyway via the Places-->Recent Documents me= nu. While it makes sense to let people delete items from the list if they w= ant, but I don't think we need to be so concerned with privacy that we = don't show the list at all. Recent documents are already tracked _anywa= y_ (see ~/.recently-used and ~/.recently-used.xbel) and if people are conce= rned about privacy then they should turn off the tracking at the source and= not just complain about an interface to view their tracks.

-Natan
--000e0cd297784d49d10469dc363a-- From mike@hingston.demon.co.uk Thu May 14 10:00:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 771B57500D6 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:00:23 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (NAT!) (up: 2220 hrs), (distance 20, link: BT DSL (?)), [62.49.20.84] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ODjSA+9ejEOG for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:00:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from charlotte.hingston.demon.co.uk (hingston.demon.co.uk [62.49.20.84]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56DDB75009E for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:00:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.0.3.4] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by charlotte.hingston.demon.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1M4XkB-0002tN-Og for gnome-shell-list@gnome.org; Thu, 14 May 2009 11:00:51 +0100 Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 From: Mike Bursell To: gnome-shell-list In-Reply-To: <1686401817.908471242263906613.JavaMail.root@zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> References: <1686401817.908471242263906613.JavaMail.root@zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:59:29 +0100 Message-Id: <1242295169.5223.1.camel@protagonist> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:00:23 -0000 They are indeed beautiful. And I want them _NOW_! Now, now, now. Pleeease? Seriously, though, if I can stop channeling my 4 year old daughter, I really like the way these are looking, and will enjoy testing them asap! -Mike. On Wed, 2009-05-13 at 21:18 -0400, Marina Zhurakhinskaya wrote: > Hi Jeremy! > > These mockups are excellent! I am away until next Tuesday, but I look forward to implementing them when I am back! > > Thanks, > Marina > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeremy Perry" > To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 4:21:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: New mockups for shell - round 2 > > Thanks Marina, Jon and the rest of the desktop team for your > thoughtful feedback on the previous mockups. I've finally posted some > new stuff based on this, hope you enjoy. > > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternative02 > > The earlier iteration is linked at the top of that page as well. > > - Jeremy > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > From ferkiwi@gmail.com Thu May 14 10:46:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF8AE7500D6 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:46:05 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 6189 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.207] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qVJ3U+g9O9Oc for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:46:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f207.google.com (mail-bw0-f207.google.com [209.85.218.207]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA79E750072 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:45:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so1137152bwz.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 03:45:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:reply-to:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=BFIofbnxpYoEwe6G+jH/2jwXP9d7Ob64DsQdAd3YpvM=; b=xZj/gooPX7V1aBUtMQpOu03llyeS9BLK+cdGMBjnpKswlePTNhYmABFv3DWO+QXXbe YLpUxANpux3/BzD34sHzSD9SYPBXKekWahPYfTXgG29V77jwo4UAEZtcW3v0K38vuRct WG2JHfd88OFHIuCAuuxBmEMFLEr4q7sd2EV7M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=cLsWMBJvXnAarceExIdVyxXlDrYjo+7bjzeC0hfWMLrVKCI9ETYOlw33wIWzSHHgrA ji7KSdHEmGTBYJ6VDMCGbRAcnyRJJws0JsnhBj/yhA2VchDgOcijv4A0PH0Ywi/lwPqS U8BCbkRixai7hRRHuf/VKCebTEce/W6djCADo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.117.14 with SMTP id o14mr1533780faq.21.1242297948168; Thu, 14 May 2009 03:45:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1123301883.908451242263894573.JavaMail.root@zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> <1686401817.908471242263906613.JavaMail.root@zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> From: Fernando Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:45:28 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list Reply-To: ferkiwi+a@gmail.com List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:46:06 -0000 On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Natan Yellin wrote: > The recent documents are all viewable anyway via the Places-->Recent > Documents menu. While it makes sense to let people delete items from the > list if they want, but I don't think we need to be so concerned with privacy > that we don't show the list at all. Recent documents are already tracked > _anyway_ (see ~/.recently-used and ~/.recently-used.xbel) and if people are > concerned about privacy then they should turn off the tracking at the source > and not just complain about an interface to view their tracks. > -Natan > There are a lot of things that are easily viewable in a PC, but not all of them are exposed so clearly. Perhaps I want to keep track of recent documents for sorting my search results accordingly but don't want to make everybody see them when I'm executing some other thing unrelated. Activity tracking browsers have been forced to add a "privacy mode" just because of that, at the very least there should be something like that in gnome, although I'd still prefer the recent documents to not be exposed so clearly to everybody when I just want to manage the workspaces or execute something not related in a not relate situation (ie: in a serious conference people don't need to know if I was playing supertux or listening hard rock). Btw, in case I was misunderstood, I'm meaning the recent documents shown at the left side pane, not the search results that pop down when typing in the searchbox. Although perhaps, privacy could be improved if the default filtering could be customized for the users who don't want certain tags or documents to be shown by default in the search. -- Fernando (sorry, I think I didnt reply to the mailing list in the last message) From myxiplx@googlemail.com Thu May 14 10:53:27 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BA56750072 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:53:27 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 6316 hrs), (distance 16, link: (Google 2)), [74.125.78.27] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ckJGEqtmFeKm for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:53:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com (ey-out-2122.google.com [74.125.78.27]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ABEB7500C3 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:53:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id d26so485187eyd.9 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 03:53:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y76arVxxHR13d0Xcm3Mp4p6b81A8fFsAeVkxdStcqK8=; b=bk11+ztTZspU/uvGuv34xqUGuZ6ZRgbUO/OAXHh8Fyn4bFZqtVrYG8Grp44Pd7kidJ IIjsf/TonCKgjF59EjvxhnafoZD95PXeeCT2OLR2lrbgB2JIeswyqWGAsGhwG7TW5/Rk 1nFjJUjuKmTnojZ1+dFM+xtd8X2Hy2zMeEsVE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=vCIsVUG0RbQiCQ+Rf7fM5LLfiElsv2n9qUMreGAulG+POslkbGu5gNw9F3Wg+xTONl 5H3lJzVC+dBz7B9LgpxY4k9XDNzr6VUeKkXZMuzKTcNZz2AgzuO5sjNUS3NkH+SF58B7 ds9z3NiMNKDvLGKgsSXpBmCsc1H2JaF9z5G+0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.11.66 with SMTP id 44mr832561wew.146.1242298386223; Thu, 14 May 2009 03:53:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> References: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> From: Ross Smith Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:52:46 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905140352y7b1d3b75sb406a6f0b8950b13@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 To: Jeremy Perry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:53:27 -0000 Hey everyone, I've put together a quick guide to my own thoughts on this, along with an indication of how the transition between the two screens can be animated. Jeremy, apologies for the horrible hack job I've done on your lovely graphi= cs. http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternative0= 3 Ross On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Jeremy Perry wro= te: > Thanks Marina, Jon and =A0the rest of the desktop team for your thoughtfu= l > feedback on the previous mockups. I've finally posted some new stuff base= d > on this, hope you enjoy. > > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternativ= e02 > > The earlier iteration is linked at the top of that page as well. > > - Jeremy > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > From myxiplx@googlemail.com Thu May 14 10:57:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7BF27500C3 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:57:00 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 4056 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h0x95uA1DiUx for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:56:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F17475012A for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:56:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1322543ewy.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 03:56:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=JUdcQRMSIQa8VUIXME/HWbfolnNcyqpViNfG+t/NEsU=; b=nRXEFBcrmFnMZc0nle/5UdGgBeeOIsMVM5nIbFTQ68YyBGQ8F/q+xC0d3+rSo+1uhX I+sbZD+zIUxpEY0IfBfCQl7ULZVm/UOXwSYW8keqOKif4TmziU5tvSYsw7QEeNXHTftb oBF9auWUSv3PZxQeQ066qvc+vS5vya0AegUjU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=rISgJnAhVDLbiAe6ilQULN50f35gzJmreqI/v152hcHy9P9ZKPtri4SrDBbgceg6hh rZJpE/QmhZOAuuWywqXfB0at/gWB/lcMO8Fl6kOH/eQAFSmLNG151LHjjyuMGwPIbIqN k8B9V5S7is048Iz7joTEhDcIi/j/HIdAklnEY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.26.201 with SMTP id c51mr786323wea.228.1242298599149; Thu, 14 May 2009 03:56:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1123301883.908451242263894573.JavaMail.root@zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> <1686401817.908471242263906613.JavaMail.root@zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> From: Ross Smith Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:56:19 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905140356m7cd7d7e5r11b1344259709756@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 To: ferkiwi+a@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:57:00 -0000 In answer to Fernando's thoughts, might it be possible to have a settings page somewhere that lets you choose the default behaviour of the Overlay? For programs: - Pinned favourites only - Most recent - Most used For documents: - Pinned favourites only - Most recent - Most used That lets you keep the same view, but people can tweak it a little to what they personally want to see (and can use this to hide things if they wish). Ross On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Fernando wrote: > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Natan Yellin wrote: >> The recent documents are all viewable anyway via the Places-->Recent >> Documents menu. While it makes sense to let people delete items from the >> list if they want, but I don't think we need to be so concerned with privacy >> that we don't show the list at all. Recent documents are already tracked >> _anyway_ (see ~/.recently-used and ~/.recently-used.xbel) and if people are >> concerned about privacy then they should turn off the tracking at the source >> and not just complain about an interface to view their tracks. >> -Natan >> > > There are a lot of things that are easily viewable in a PC, but not > all of them are exposed so clearly. > Perhaps I want to keep track of recent documents for sorting my search > results accordingly but don't want to make everybody see them when I'm > executing some other thing unrelated. > > Activity tracking browsers have been forced to add a "privacy mode" > just because of that, at the very least there should be something like > that in gnome, although I'd still prefer the recent documents to not > be exposed so clearly to everybody when I just want to manage the > workspaces or execute something not related in a not relate situation > (ie: in a serious conference people don't need to know if I was > playing supertux or listening hard rock). > > Btw, in case I was misunderstood, I'm meaning the recent documents > shown at the left side pane, not the search results that pop down when > typing in the searchbox. Although perhaps, privacy could be improved > if the default filtering could be customized for the users who don't > want certain tags or documents to be shown by default in the search. > > -- > Fernando > > (sorry, I think I didnt reply to the mailing list in the last message) > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > From ferkiwi@gmail.com Thu May 14 12:07:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71DE675012A for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 12:07:03 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 2829 hrs), (distance 14, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.226] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4f6Mcj062L44 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 12:06:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f226.google.com (mail-fx0-f226.google.com [209.85.220.226]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E796975009E for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 12:06:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so1188848fxm.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 05:06:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:reply-to:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=kEtebsUGNCqQ+KO5HJmB0DIKI0VstAPNBW6J3POSLGg=; b=ndUCBCpWnAQQmM3fQYgllsDbAX6FLouV27LMMap83+EvJUQ2stY1j+QmcVpjtLQdGn 5f96eq7gThwWC+a2Qz2Bj9YWI40ucMmmyn5dBadhZ+USyp2iWoPW1DmWofHj0z8v/81Y kYVpTB+Fts9o4QiY8DEZaqwUmBipshSdtGUfk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=hFQ8uZNnJonPloaRsaYIUM9vfBpicKBOy0q+144L3x1C0jCLS8z1MkAMjCvQpCJMan sUuufVFvR4G4zSS/nVsjvj6uNM8RLR1h/oMXDRxElxyQFW2fRborjPck0A2tH5GyKagz tFJco2RWVfp2vh1zJ47Xg0I8gcj6SFEo4W2YQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.107.135 with SMTP id b7mr1641363fap.30.1242302804224; Thu, 14 May 2009 05:06:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905140352y7b1d3b75sb406a6f0b8950b13@mail.gmail.com> References: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> <7b160d240905140352y7b1d3b75sb406a6f0b8950b13@mail.gmail.com> From: Fernando Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:06:24 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 To: Ross Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list Reply-To: ferkiwi+a@gmail.com List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:07:03 -0000 On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Ross Smith wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I've put together a quick guide to my own thoughts on this, along with > an indication of how the transition between the two screens can be > animated. > > Jeremy, apologies for the horrible hack job I've done on your lovely graphics. > > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternative03 > > Ross I also like that. I think that categories and sorting should be different things selectable independently. Have an independent way (tabs, drop-down selection box, whatever) for choosing the sorting method (frequently used, recently used, alphabetical order, favorites, etc) And another independent way for selecting the category (all, accessories, games, etc) Perhaps categories could be checkboxes instead of selections (maybe I want to search in accessories and system tools at the same time). And I think that the same thing could be done for document sorting, but instead of categories we would have tags. Why don't just include there the documents indexed by the tracker? no matter if you didn't used them recently. Maybe there are documents you haven't used so much but you still want to be able to search in the overlay and open them. However, maybe performance would be an issue here. -- Fernando From jon.nettleton@gmail.com Thu May 14 12:15:13 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6911C7500EF for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 12:15:13 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 4069 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i6qMD2OO0wAR for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 12:15:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200E175009E for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 12:14:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1374675ewy.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 05:14:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=4xttPzPFyNw2h5Fa4xCLTE9ECD2bBQuclcwOIkQP/iA=; b=pCHKg9pCl+P4ZAwk7Ty7IDd75p/tIYkM8wKria1vYCqi9c8AdOaNLE0OhmNaOy6e2Q eTN65c/W4BGCl7ac0grx0Tc0PcYTWvIJLPu9iEwd4wVDO0VJAtVSEpnX4VjTEIzRkOAZ AN1piTsmfYzLfW7oOj+OAMfgE+i8HONkugAnA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=SPBNV9et0oF26maxfZEG0QGke91DwV9KauH+MvLi5qnWPk9zga60UsrD6A3tfo7AUx rqRM2J2AuPdMf+GWN3f6JIMmKLQQMn0esTmownz1pVINnty7lDPNTDOaO1YxMkLP2YYy t43Y6jEf50xS0vY9uGcCTufESruE4o7x7AtBk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.26.206 with SMTP id c56mr854875wea.45.1242303296487; Thu, 14 May 2009 05:14:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2b0573450905131948x1e613ac9mb21a1bb8525a6b70@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b0573450905131948x1e613ac9mb21a1bb8525a6b70@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 08:14:56 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Get rid of the scrollbars From: Jon Nettleton To: "foss[ilized]" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:15:13 -0000 On 5/13/09, foss[ilized] wrote: > Just a thought: one of the ugliest graphical items I see on almost all > of today's desktop environments is the scrollbar. > > I think it's time to get rid of scrollbars. With the push toward > "touch" computing, the scrollbar becomes a hindrance rather than an > aid to navigation. Users with large, wide or "clumsy" fingers are at a > disadvantage when trying to click, press or drag a scrollbar to pan > (move) a window up, down, left or right. > > I propose putting the navigation icons on the window itself. The > arrows could be mere indicator arrows, directional triangles, or plus > signs. The actual panning can be done by dragging the window itself. > Alternatively, the arrows could be "small" icons located at the top, > bottom, right, and left edges of the window that needs to be scrolled. > Bringing the mouse pointer close to the edge of the screen or pointing > at the arrow will magnify or enlarge the arrow, which would give the > user a larger "clickable" area. The scrollbar on a desktop does more than just provide navigation. It is also a quick visual clue to the user about how long a document is and approximately where the user is in the document. Perhaps we could look at taking your idea and change it a bit. Have the up down arrow get smaller as you near the end of the document, or something along those lines. We might want a button next to the navigation arrows like the history button in firefox that when click drops down a quick scrolling bar. Jon From jeremy.perry@redhat.com Thu May 14 13:12:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80C99750147 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 13:12:32 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) (NAT!) (up: 9495 hrs), (distance 14, link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [66.187.237.31] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F3a5Bl-ayfKw for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 13:12:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx2.redhat.com (mx2.redhat.com [66.187.237.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC0C37500D6 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 13:12:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (int-mx2.corp.redhat.com [172.16.27.26]) by mx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n4EDCFnG019040; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:12:16 -0400 Received: from ns3.rdu.redhat.com (ns3.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.255.199]) by int-mx2.corp.redhat.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4EDCFOZ008850; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:12:15 -0400 Received: from [172.16.1.6] (vpn-13-190.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.13.190]) by ns3.rdu.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n4EDCDBq014036; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:12:14 -0400 Message-Id: <8614ECE2-ECDD-44D4-A3D9-CD5F968D56C3@redhat.com> From: Jeremy Perry To: Jon Nettleton In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: Get rid of the scrollbars Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:12:13 -0400 References: <2b0573450905131948x1e613ac9mb21a1bb8525a6b70@mail.gmail.com> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 172.16.27.26 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:12:32 -0000 On May 14, 2009, at 8:14 AM, Jon Nettleton wrote: > On 5/13/09, foss[ilized] wrote: >> Just a thought: one of the ugliest graphical items I see on almost >> all >> of today's desktop environments is the scrollbar. >> >> I think it's time to get rid of scrollbars. With the push toward >> "touch" computing, the scrollbar becomes a hindrance rather than an >> aid to navigation. Users with large, wide or "clumsy" fingers are >> at a >> disadvantage when trying to click, press or drag a scrollbar to pan >> (move) a window up, down, left or right. >> >> I propose putting the navigation icons on the window itself. The >> arrows could be mere indicator arrows, directional triangles, or plus >> signs. The actual panning can be done by dragging the window itself. >> Alternatively, the arrows could be "small" icons located at the top, >> bottom, right, and left edges of the window that needs to be >> scrolled. >> Bringing the mouse pointer close to the edge of the screen or >> pointing >> at the arrow will magnify or enlarge the arrow, which would give the >> user a larger "clickable" area. > > The scrollbar on a desktop does more than just provide navigation. It > is also a quick visual clue to the user about how long a document is > and approximately where the user is in the document. > > Perhaps we could look at taking your idea and change it a bit. Have > the up down arrow get smaller as you near the end of the document, or > something along those lines. We might want a button next to the > navigation arrows like the history button in firefox that when click > drops down a quick scrolling bar. > > Jon > Another option is to reduce what we already have today into something very minimal when not in use. The scrollbar could be represented as a simple line down the right side, giving a clue that there is scrollable area and a sense of how much, as indicated by the length of a highlighted portion of the line. When the user gestures over the scrollbar area, a fuller, more conventional scrollbar would appear with arrows, etc. Jeremy From dmj726@sbcglobal.net Thu May 14 14:59:07 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B9967501BF for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 14:59:07 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, L_P0F_Unix=-1] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: FreeBSD 6.x (1) (up: 2729 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [67.195.15.70] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4pE4NDyPPF8n for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 14:58:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web180304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (web180304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.15.70]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D91057500B5 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 14:58:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: (qmail 36722 invoked by uid 60001); 14 May 2009 14:58:47 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sbcglobal.net; s=s1024; t=1242313127; bh=kyeiNIYqsxlFXcAoxd2pbzRU6BafQ4rbGN7v5wfE7VU=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=DKJwrkg2PYbxwgPCSUngFfJEZ898h2Op0H/aJ+bzl+uk73CPsZ0BfFZAaE+cfUJOyJAj6tPKuHfkJQZoUkrKgE/lW7QnOTdeI2dFD9uH372MFQTjJb6uxBt+bzb7YwSu9avbu7bZfQb7SaKpHTkssSSncpVWAo64G3HTFyLY80A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=vSvV4tajH4eObnTxtf+kyt3vFSYGnQEhe+yv+XX9Bx7yd3bbMqCnMwiMGFBZLhfB3huFe9cmfG8OaZAkhih2TesCSbEJGJDdzKKSf32n2uI+ltP43E8cNFqU7foEAImxksBKiYD+MOCGaahEbPfyOiRjCQbs7sKHW2xxkc0/5iI=; Message-ID: <803778.35093.qm@web180304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: smi3n58VM1kaGIs5OiVrc1uDvim_X4_CBeWOCaKANHfvkYg.bdbrpQYeF3HLyl.Wwr3jTTTjvw2y9MqOJ4MKJix.N6UjA8zmtdovR1Qqaarsf0eil_HJxe6xqRoC4VyYJuO6gdYHuHAy5tY2YXT2.9bkmNvvWK8GG5oebcKK9BsFsfVzptoU5_LUATPaJZPwNR4rS.xrUmAu8_UT8hqe0s83quzG.no5G5HCrYXucICM1yhov8EddeDp_NevWU3g0XOPBswppcm4H42pTPe_AZWaLc2YEtHyABWRY7kM.EzX4MtAu2VOFOb0EFRiGqwl5v48nlUBm9.ExrgOACD1uxRgYCtKpHb0FflzYNScnQ9vzuc- Received: from [98.212.192.232] by web180304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 May 2009 07:58:47 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 07:58:47 -0700 (PDT) From: david jordan Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 To: Jeremy Perry , Ross Smith In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905140352y7b1d3b75sb406a6f0b8950b13@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1579256725-1242313127=:35093" Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:59:07 -0000 --0-1579256725-1242313127=:35093 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One thing I'm seeing with these mockups is that the Add/Remove Programs... = item is getting relegated into odd corners of the menu.=A0 Add/Remove Progr= ams is one of the most important and distinctive features that Linux has go= ing for it.=A0 The convenience of a good package manager scores us big kudo= s from new users.=A0 Further, when new users come to our system from the la= nd of architectural elements and fruit, they don't know the right way to ge= t programs, and there are two ways they figure it out 1.) Their handy *nix = guru friend shows it to them, 2.) They find Add/Remove in the menu.=A0 Othe= rwise, they try to find executables on the web or compile from source.=A0 F= inding random binaries is potentially dangerous, and thinking you have to c= ompile everything from source code really turns off newbies.=A0 (Grandma wo= n't even get this far.)=A0 I suggest that Add/Remove is important enough to= put in the top-level overlay, not because it is used every day, but because we can't afford to hide it in some submenu the user won't see unti= l they've gone to the internet.=20 David P.S. Apologies for the rant! --- On Thu, 5/14/09, Ross Smith wrote: From: Ross Smith Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 To: "Jeremy Perry" Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 5:52 AM Hey everyone, I've put together a quick guide to my own thoughts on this, along with an indication of how the transition between the two screens can be animated. Jeremy, apologies for the horrible hack job I've done on your lovely graphics. http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternative0= 3 Ross On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Jeremy Perry wrote: > Thanks Marina, Jon and =A0the rest of the desktop team for your thoughtfu= l > feedback on the previous mockups. I've finally posted some new stuff based > on this, hope you enjoy. > > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternative0= 2 > > The earlier iteration is linked at the top of that page as well. > > - Jeremy > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > _______________________________________________ gnome-shell-list mailing list gnome-shell-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list --0-1579256725-1242313127=:35093 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One thing I'm seeing with these mockups is th= at the Add/Remove Programs... item is getting relegated into odd corners of= the menu.  Add/Remove Programs is one of the most important and disti= nctive features that Linux has going for it.  The convenience of a goo= d package manager scores us big kudos from new users.  Further, when n= ew users come to our system from the land of architectural elements and fru= it, they don't know the right way to get programs, and there are two ways t= hey figure it out 1.) Their handy *nix guru friend shows it to them, 2.) Th= ey find Add/Remove in the menu.  Otherwise, they try to find executabl= es on the web or compile from source.  Finding random binaries is pote= ntially dangerous, and thinking you have to compile everything from source = code really turns off newbies.  (Grandma won't even get this far.)&nbs= p; I suggest that Add/Remove is important enough to put in the top-level over= lay, not because it is used every day, but because we can't afford to hide = it in some submenu the user won't see until they've gone to the internet. <= br>David
P.S. Apologies for the rant!
--- On Thu, 5/14/09, Ross Sm= ith <myxiplx@googlemail.com> wrote:
From: Ross Smith <myxiplx@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: New= mockups for shell - round 2
To: "Jeremy Perry" <jeremy.perry@redhat.= com>
Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org
Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, = 5:52 AM

Hey everyone,

I've put together a quick guide to=
 my own thoughts on this, along with
an indication of how the transition=
 between the two screens can be
animated.

Jeremy, apologies for t=
he horrible hack job I've done on your
 lovely
graphics.

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlaygr=
ound/AppBrowsingAlternative03

Ross



On Wed, May 13, 20=
09 at 9:21 PM, Jeremy Perry <jeremy.perry@redhat.com>
wrote:
&g=
t; Thanks Marina, Jon and  the rest of the desktop team for your thoug=
htful
> feedback on the previous mockups. I've finally posted some ne=
w stuff
based
> on this, hope you enjoy.
>
>
http:/=
/live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternative02
&=
gt;
> The earlier iteration is linked at the top of that page as well=
.
>
> - Jeremy
>
> ________________________________=
_______________
> gnome-shell-list mailing list
> gnome-shell-l=
ist@gnome.org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-li=
st
>
_______________________________________________
gnome-shel=
l-list mailing
 list
gnome-shell-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listin=
fo/gnome-shell-list
--0-1579256725-1242313127=:35093-- From dmj726@sbcglobal.net Thu May 14 15:00:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72FC67501C6 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:00:32 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, L_P0F_Unix=-1] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: FreeBSD 6.x (1) (up: 2741 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [67.195.15.75] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yd8mf3ZvRNwR for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:00:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from web180309.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (web180309.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [67.195.15.75]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B8055750199 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:00:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: (qmail 57521 invoked by uid 60001); 14 May 2009 15:00:09 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sbcglobal.net; s=s1024; t=1242313209; bh=D/7F8BbUdRkhqDJTVw1rbCyYz0743Yzg2t3x4Ke4+gI=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=z919+y/6+1p4SZjXs+fhJrvznZ9VekEQcdoqyequzhKSbyZMeYLrWSL3Tn/fZU6MToSq4njY6GtoYpbTdsKSKp1rZ8S6xXHty4vsK2lzK5LxeYFY90Qz7MJ6Qq3SIqu3g2o5/GP6UCavi6ecEE16CUzXexsab1+TNRvUAZEA8ic= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=q0RY31KPb/TeUdIUrcDYSiU/5um1/6NNejC+DdOqpzYSTDeg5l5sdBYmuNzfHtnRBlB9QT0c8LTwLSlgsAuKADeycyfob++jAz7mMIGaKD5Xspzn6LHLF8o/WJi3FSBJv81e1KP1OdWHhvYkq+87+gBOZHreU0+5lQPsc/eg/TA=; Message-ID: <764019.56448.qm@web180309.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: ET112DoVM1neSHfp95TkxRZFuXYO2Ak4ts.AHFLN9Ivy1AuTiG_8FQR4C4Mph62CeKr2rOdjcgQN6TqXfuWhqAURWWc4Cy0cuJ8.vnIlhlrZK9RooorJw4ZUL6uaOkVmKes8md0SBs5UW9uke8UhqYyckoHOZqy70X6aXprEWuGam2UAfhZaVhO9x3gJ.zSu4vh6gDe89bCDKIJR4ujTKIsUWk0RUKEoLYmmleoMvvNEeATALV98AL6cwtAQJlwm4Yml294PH.vr0c8_nvYea.XAAMJ_DUXy_X1GtqGwxnnVhGajw2YXIRFQw3yj0JpAPtxz Received: from [98.212.192.232] by web180309.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 May 2009 08:00:09 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.1 Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 08:00:09 -0700 (PDT) From: david jordan Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-310880335-1242313209=:56448" X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:00:32 -0000 --0-310880335-1242313209=:56448 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I hadn't even noticed the Recent Documents item in the places menu until you mentioned it, and have never had it up when other people were in the room.=A0 I think the difference between the two is not keeping track of the documents as much as making them very visible to everyone in the room, even when the person isn't looking for recent documents, but opening a program or adding/switching workspaces.=A0 I'm not sure how important this is, but something like a way for the user to pin it closed would make sense.=A0 If the user pins it closed, the Documents menu will stay that way when the Overlay is activated until it is pinned open.=A0 Also, this could theorhetically let users manage a wider variety of pluggable menus if we were to implement such a thing. David --- On Thu, 5/14/09, Natan Yellin wrote: From: Natan Yellin Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 To: ferkiwi+a@gmail.com Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 4:47 AM On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Fernando wrote: For example, many people would like to remove the "recents documents" because of privacy issues, since they are showed up so clearly that everyone will know what were you doing before in your comp. Maybe they would like to replace it with some other gadget.The recent documents are al= l viewable anyway via the Places-->Recent Documents menu. While it makes se= nse to let people delete items from the list if they want, but I don't thin= k we need to be so concerned with privacy that we don't show the list at al= l. Recent documents are already tracked _anyway_ (see ~/.recently-used and = ~/.recently-used.xbel) and if people are concerned about privacy then they = should turn off the tracking at the source and not just complain about an i= nterface to view their tracks. -Natan _______________________________________________ gnome-shell-list mailing list gnome-shell-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list --0-310880335-1242313209=:56448 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I hadn't even noticed the Recent Documents it= em in the places menu until you mentioned it, and have never had it up when other people were in the room.  I think the difference between the two is not keeping track of the documents as much as making them very visible to everyone in the room, even when the person isn't looking for recent documents, but opening a program or adding/switching workspaces.  I'm not sure ho= w important this is, but something like a way for the user to pin it closed would make sense.  If the user pins it closed, the Documents menu will stay that way when the Overlay is activated until it is pinned open.  Also, this could theorhetically let users manage a wider variety of pluggable menus if we were to implement such a thing.
David

--- On Thu, 5/14/09, Natan Yellin <aantny@gmail.com><= /i> wrote:
From: Natan Yellin <aantny@gm= ail.com>
Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2
To: ferkiwi+= a@gmail.com
Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org
Date: Thursday, May 14, 20= 09, 4:47 AM

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Fernando &= lt;= ferkiwi@gmail.com> wrote:
For example, many people would like to remove the "recents documents"
because of privacy issues, since they are showed up so clearly that
everyone will know what were you doing before in your comp. Maybe they
would like to replace it with some other gadget.
The recen= t documents are all viewable anyway via the Places-->Recent Documents me= nu. While it makes sense to let people delete items from the list if they w= ant, but I don't think we need to be so concerned with privacy that we don'= t show the list at all. Recent documents are already tracked _anyway_ (see = ~/.recently-used and ~/.recently-used.xbel) and if people are concerned abo= ut privacy then they should turn off the tracking at the source and not jus= t complain about an interface to view their tracks.

-Natan
_______________________________________________
gnome-shell-l=
ist mailing list
gnome-shell-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mai=
lman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list
--0-310880335-1242313209=:56448-- From jon.nettleton@gmail.com Thu May 14 15:20:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F9647501E2 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:20:15 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 6361 hrs), (distance 16, link: (Google 2)), [74.125.78.26] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M6P7Mk4oZ3xx for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:20:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com (ey-out-2122.google.com [74.125.78.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 027117500B5 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:20:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id d26so546099eyd.9 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 08:19:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=EmKOMKNs2Gji+gHJ9BxywpMH0fwVFAdH7zZqbhiNg9Q=; b=IPGq5ORwaoYjpauvDodvqv2S9dBc+wm7bixh3lDMAaFIQa+OyI4NJs7FvZNf0CyQ9R 2rvhXTFWC3W+uz09faCIuTGavKTE19nYO+itnG+zl7L3jOzn/OX6HkAsJE6R1/XCwf0A 2x8pIGCLRDqH0g6L9ATFdfDRG3wh77BHgp2dw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=UiLOJ1XcISeaPd1Ne69mLjyQQaNaIsZ31uiOuM6MxMBzRHIXxClaUnYGqCpUqnRDlL ulXHN6LLPN1o3myGjrimLF+uM7xngweyUWddduw7EfhHRXtrIZTK62SZWm0gef41p2/9 WAc3yii6K06uGzsnmPe26PJfxelVYEeoOFP6k= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.26.206 with SMTP id c56mr910867wea.45.1242314398090; Thu, 14 May 2009 08:19:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <803778.35093.qm@web180304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <7b160d240905140352y7b1d3b75sb406a6f0b8950b13@mail.gmail.com> <803778.35093.qm@web180304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:19:58 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 From: Jon Nettleton To: david jordan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:20:15 -0000 On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:58 AM, david jordan wrote= : > > One thing I'm seeing with these mockups is that the Add/Remove Programs..= . item is getting relegated into odd corners of the menu.=C2=A0 Add/Remove = Programs is one of the most important and distinctive features that Linux h= as going for it.=C2=A0 The convenience of a good package manager scores us = big kudos from new users.=C2=A0 Further, when new users come to our system = from the land of architectural elements and fruit, they don't know the righ= t way to get programs, and there are two ways they figure it out 1.) Their = handy *nix guru friend shows it to them, 2.) They find Add/Remove in the me= nu.=C2=A0 Otherwise, they try to find executables on the web or compile fro= m source.=C2=A0 Finding random binaries is potentially dangerous, and think= ing you have to compile everything from source code really turns off newbie= s.=C2=A0 (Grandma won't even get this far.)=C2=A0 I suggest that Add/Remove= is important enough to put in the top-level overlay, not because it is use= d every day, but because we can't afford to hide it in some submenu the use= r won't see until they've gone to the internet. I think rather than a specific button Add/Remove Programs, we need to make the experience more seamless. When a user searches for something, add at the bottom of the search, Fine New Program or some such language. The same with browsing, perhaps at the bottom of each category there is an Install More selection that preselects Office Applications as a query from the package manager. I find a specific package manager a bit convoluted. I feel integrating it directly into the desktop workflow would be a far nice experience. Then down the road really go the next step to have a user be able to easily rate a software application in the same context. How great would it be for Open Source projects to get a good idea of how their project was being used and who liked it. This is really something for the package manager and not the desktop though. Jon From myxiplx@googlemail.com Thu May 14 15:49:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91AE27501D4 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:49:25 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 4105 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K1YEkRumhTH5 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:49:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2D0A7500F5 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:49:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1537137ewy.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 08:49:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=rVBiza1fCSswPdjCMmlk6pukBNhqE3ty3TtB7NL7UD4=; b=h2wAU5Mbf1zi06zuHgTm4Og0e8Wg4N8XknSnC4FdFBihr+mcYGLolju2AjDPjhiOWH VDm3Fyqku9zDytxPbRxGVgi+H/5AAaQ51+ADhvpBkSYI1ICEx5QOHlEuthIhWUOEceH9 PJ4tuyUjbI7dzKiRA6gwxGoIg0VBif8n3rOvg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=FAJkoFd68+meTH8W7EOFXIuhxFZb5xePAw08ahmVhhIXdtzlGWx7PRr5s9zbskyhxa VhWToUFO6w0b9iWQXqaRW77P1KS4EniiP0Ju53nZGexxWSWEJ0iTix4OaIF0V8yWkB9Y ICcI3YzWVDAgTlIswnTo2mcakuSQ/3STCIVxc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.74.71 with SMTP id w49mr893923wed.135.1242316146181; Thu, 14 May 2009 08:49:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <803778.35093.qm@web180304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <7b160d240905140352y7b1d3b75sb406a6f0b8950b13@mail.gmail.com> <803778.35093.qm@web180304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> From: Ross Smith Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:48:46 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905140848p6ac36c4fm767b39536ef8c1a8@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 To: david jordan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:49:25 -0000 On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 3:58 PM, david jordan wrote: > One thing I'm seeing with these mockups is that the Add/Remove Programs..= . > item is getting relegated into odd corners of the menu.=A0 Add/Remove Pro= grams > is one of the most important and distinctive features that Linux has goin= g > for it. Absolutely, one of the things I loved about Jeremy's mockup was the way he integrated the Add Programs feature into each category. I think the full Add/Remove feature could live within settings if we had that 'Add game', etc feature as a prominent part of the main program list. For bonus points: You could also have the 'Add program' pop up on the main screen if no results are found for something. To really push the boat out, you could do a package search in the background, and add an 'Install xxxx now' when users search :-) From myxiplx@googlemail.com Thu May 14 15:51:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24A8C7500F5 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:51:46 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 4105 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ErDaWNogTRR3 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:51:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A28D7501D4 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:51:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1539053ewy.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 08:51:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+Dtv6RJzVmAmkiMvS4oV6jUOdri3Gnzpgv08rhYjXuY=; b=GhH7GhiCmi4tRxZRceUcpZF0UbyJwUuXqtU7sCAJcfsPAn5iAY3xWzFqA8tQJGALFo L5xNZ4HAerhCH/4Z6v/ZagjN3TrNggAtwLqamg4yfkMViWHOXbSEIfwpwls4aEDAgCqj yQfq8zrmCoIb66d7ekdnKbS05ReTk3mMIwqTM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=N9/e5MVB45lZgsM+QD3Xz2JVYzfU/M1PTSI1IVy4FEtGFObcNTnVAagGBcFghbkspN rlmt2vEsc2HnqrvQA2nTt9SmpShX3TDXwLKsROsxEpReNIlIHYvA0Su6mDP7U9btZaeN VKjCBJ3Zi1hTYeY+BpNbJQOFb/+I30tx/Ee6Y= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.49.194 with SMTP id x44mr892385web.130.1242316285134; Thu, 14 May 2009 08:51:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905130441m351791b2w5f7a6ab16ab919a5@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905130441m351791b2w5f7a6ab16ab919a5@mail.gmail.com> From: Ross Smith Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:51:04 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905140851m358a16e8sb827b848fa7c22b2@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Thoughts on window sizing - now tiling To: Mike Bursell , greg@gkn.me.uk, ankere@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:51:46 -0000 I've added a page to the Wiki now, with some brief notes on this, and a suggestion for the Overlay interface: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/WindowTiling Ross On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Ross Smith wrote= : > Hi guys, > > I've been thinking some more on this over the last few days, after > reading the existing suggestions for window tiling: > http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3349/3442783741_75c5f67d0d_o.png > > I'm now thinking that with a good tiling interface, there's no need > for any of this window sizing cleverness. =A0I'm writing this up now, > but could I ask for your thoughts on this: > > Have a dedicated 'tilling' mode: > - Activated per workspace in the overlay > - And potentially activated by a command, hot corner, or keypress > while on the main workspace. > > It starts by fitting all windows to fit on screen, like Compiz Scale: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DbLVAqQHsu6U > > You're then free to drag any window around to stitch them together as > shown in that picture above. =A0The window you are dragging moves freely > around the screen at all times (no snapping), but the part overlaying > a window goes semi-transparent, and the edge to join is clearly > highlighted. > > One example not shown in those pictures is dragging a window onto two > already joined windows, which I think is also possible: > http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/IGgJ7MzqVuwemE7s5JAfRg?authkey=3DG= v1sRgCJDK77aPmuTOpwE&feat=3Ddirectlink > > Once windows are linked in this way, they act as a coherent group: > > - The group is moved and sized as a whole > > - A coloured border around the group may help here, llike the compiz > group background glow effect: > =A0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DsULZKK7u3So) > > - Joins between windows are flexible - you can still resize any > window, but the others stay stuck to it: > http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/BGPmqvlCl6A9SYa3KjfmVw?authkey=3DG= v1sRgCJDK77aPmuTOpwE&feat=3Ddirectlink > > - Minimize & Maximise buttons are removed for all windows apart from > the top right one, and now maximise or minimize the group as a whole > (changing the button colours to match the coloured border may be a > useful visual aid here). > > I would suggest that with this behaviour, and the existing > 'stickiness' of application and screen edges, there is no need to do > anything more with window sizing. =A0You can even group a bunch of > windows and tile them like this, and still have the other windows on > that workspace free floating. > > What do you think? > > Ross > > > > On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Mike Bursell = wrote: >> On Tue, 2009-05-12 at 07:59 +0100, Ross Smith wrote: >>> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Greg K Nicholson wro= te: >>> > On the subject of resizing: what is the use-case for it?=97why do we >>> > need to be able to resize windows to arbitrary sizes? >>> >>> I would say that there are quite a few reasons to keep it around: >>> >>> 1. Familiarity - everybody is used to this, anything else would feel al= ien. >>> >>> 2. Freedom - My personal feeling is that enforced sizing would feel >>> restrictive. =A0People like to feel that they are in control. =A0Yes, t= he >>> UI could do with helping them tile windows more easily, but I think >>> this needs to be in a relatively subtle way. >>> >>> 3. Unknown reasons - There may be a myriad of other reasons why >>> somebody wants a window 'just so'. =A0Flexibility for the user to do >>> what they want is important. >> >> The very idea of not being able to resize windows fills me with dread. >> Here are some reasons: >> >> 1. sizing of documents: some I need to read at particular sizes, and I >> need to be able to resize the window they're in, and not scroll around >> all the time >> 2. sometimes I'm referring to one window, and doing things in another: >> I'll make the first one the right size so that I can read what's going >> on, and but have my main focus as the (big) window. >> 3. video formats: need I say more? >> 4. looking at images of varying sizes >> 5. different sized screens, with different resolutions, require >> different sized windows (and I'll drag them across desktops and then >> resize as I wish >> 6. need I go on...? >> >> -Mike. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gnome-shell-list mailing list >> gnome-shell-list@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list >> > From gregknicholson@gmail.com Thu May 14 16:14:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BC437501DC for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 16:14:16 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 2872 hrs), (distance 14, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.226] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HGURpi27QH8x for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 16:14:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f226.google.com (mail-fx0-f226.google.com [209.85.220.226]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE1627500F5 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 16:13:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so1336207fxm.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:13:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sXiVAo9G6ja6M1ZBLPUoWexffSkD9CXoAQNhVvc7QY4=; b=l/j0r5sUa/TQExRGpTqoX6AA20myD21vNwSiDuBg8nfjVROFaNmkc7NYDnplE032xZ k/AqAXO9rzlzDI7w1kINQC40q/OmydgpfMhWv0zxgGl+NLycb7iD+oAU9Hh7oqWCBJfW YDd95SPMH/YC9APIOGEv4GFHE8vUHcJlciTsE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=ZBihYfSCOiNsUuIY1/Tfz+Ob9Cvlxw34BpmZXUZLzyn0xZ6/4aTOmqOw7FXw0YiOBX /H5HWLKbyW5fcd35QH30affNwxboqFv1nZMMmPxMq5xcb8jz0a5CnzDNRY7+ABJVca93 SE+PiooPJv65Q68pbrY+UeWwnTRgY0qdE1YJk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gregknicholson@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.62.82 with SMTP id w18mr2278489bkh.129.1242317632335; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:13:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905140848p6ac36c4fm767b39536ef8c1a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905140352y7b1d3b75sb406a6f0b8950b13@mail.gmail.com> <803778.35093.qm@web180304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <7b160d240905140848p6ac36c4fm767b39536ef8c1a8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:13:52 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0a2237be9426e596 Message-ID: Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 From: Greg K Nicholson To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:14:17 -0000 On Add/Remove: If we know that the user has a working internet connection, we could show not-yet-installed applications in the menu alongside installed ones. The default action would be Install rather than Run, and there'd be a clear distinction (of some sort) between installed and not-yet-installed apps. A dialogue at the end of the installation would offer =E2=80=9CRun now=E2=80=9D (default) and =E2=80=9CClose=E2=80=9D= . (Uninstall could be a context-menu option for installed apps as well.) From gregknicholson@gmail.com Thu May 14 16:18:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9768A7501C9 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 16:18:12 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 2872 hrs), (distance 14, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.226] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7d9N-JdOBxVc for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 16:18:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f226.google.com (mail-fx0-f226.google.com [209.85.220.226]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893927500F5 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 16:17:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so1338981fxm.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:17:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=boLqySJ/7gnbZSgd94FMSEmUFbt6pVhrrliSEg3qIoM=; b=Yit8AjsE68NJN1IjDFyK69UoDoZ4YkaHVnOCZsPrC/uFnkZN9ztnKWCjW5WwyUeqq2 tePoTS5Lees+7ZFUofnSoxLKQpsuygJkaWS1RiMnMyWYnOzQqfv7gV2rBYgGoMYzcX8O MVV8SX/A4bXfymDVkc/cCB3/y/ff81Nwov4yE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=h8v7GjpNG0FS6wNm8QUopYSR/8m9iM9C8A4qpUwer0YIpAc+w977mtFAc+Bq+95YAz NEyPp51iPa8E3ip2KBGEONfIyXPHDPei1hk/GV4FnReAsj6VCs7pbxuJT+WYdpLh1A6c ta/xa55SF+GpS3+J0ToePb5fbt/RDN65UoxE8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gregknicholson@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.57.67 with SMTP id b3mr2286443bkh.99.1242317872586; Thu, 14 May 2009 09:17:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905140851m358a16e8sb827b848fa7c22b2@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905130441m351791b2w5f7a6ab16ab919a5@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905140851m358a16e8sb827b848fa7c22b2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:17:51 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 54ed729b8ca02c98 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Thoughts on window sizing - now tiling From: Greg K Nicholson To: Ross Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:18:12 -0000 > I've added a page to the Wiki now, with some brief notes on this, and > a suggestion for the Overlay interface: > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/WindowTiling Evidently we mean different things by =E2=80=9Ctiling=E2=80=9D: I mean that= windows on the workspace together occupy the entire workspace without overlapping: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiling_window_manager From myxiplx@googlemail.com Thu May 14 17:17:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB35C75020A for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 17:17:36 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 4120 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r79mv+FaQ3xL for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 17:17:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ECF67501DC for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 17:17:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1613790ewy.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:17:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=YAqBAryFkGOBwDLqGtzwJlRtNXkuhtEIG1Unq6whVys=; b=H+M2E5r89Lq6rVlBXqgu9rcxi38nKKRlCRwwCm73xP1nbt3eEYedzj6uvKSzu0zmVS WA8Hgqrs98JoAlTe9wVo9QGt7282D/tXA/PnzNT4PtgUg6AU6UmW7AP1NF4t/TKJ81J0 pkKdQkiHrKkJcbo6NraNSoA2Q78sz0T6CrKIE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=ro+k/nPvrTIuCHYFEO4BD3q25dlenfblqLhmE5TuazrmiTRXTxKrFwGkWKDB0k1Nd/ gMx001CptZK3mE0Ucv2dAMP+0Oih/GgQdp2XSUW+9kwxX7DIourWNOZ05SnhFv6bHyCy ofRadAHyyl6ol/XTVHppYezZ0jR7xbKLeBWZ8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.11.82 with SMTP id 60mr963166wew.36.1242321435130; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:17:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7b160d240905130441m351791b2w5f7a6ab16ab919a5@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905140851m358a16e8sb827b848fa7c22b2@mail.gmail.com> From: Ross Smith Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:16:55 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905141016i6e9f60daj2075fd6e75d60146@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Thoughts on window sizing - now tiling To: Greg K Nicholson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:17:37 -0000 Yes, that's what I understand tiling window managers to mean, and that's how this would work when you maximise a group of applications. I see this it as being a little more accessible to beginners, and possibly easier to use than a standard window manager, since you can choose to tile or until arbitrary sets of windows. It's a very new idea though, so any suggestions are welcome :) On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Greg K Nicholson wrote: >> I've added a page to the Wiki now, with some brief notes on this, and >> a suggestion for the Overlay interface: >> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/WindowTiling > > Evidently we mean different things by =93tiling=94: I mean that windows o= n > the workspace together occupy the entire workspace without > overlapping: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiling_window_manager > From myxiplx@googlemail.com Thu May 14 17:24:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08E1F7500B5 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 17:24:08 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 4120 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PWt7HciA7V3L for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 17:23:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAC537501DC for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 17:23:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1618713ewy.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:23:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=8WprpGU3LWMGICi+IzAiwM/Vg9S/uRfe+90ywuerU8E=; b=H1zrP9viuqPsY7aihwtWhcUjkeXJgXTKlq3u1AM8myVdEV6oqFH/WOcznfkiax8XOE eGFlxdiiNdb9hzxGDQjsMl0M02IVpE0/HqwWwc5koKwKcdhWrppTcDOLOP0y2qIZmP71 +KT1kGWReK9xUJBCXXakQf0L9Up/wzCM3pXps= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Mha4WaQttxHsbHBvYOzh98F9OA0yss4XLVXZCbdE0VOtL6nGb0zIIX9d+fEbPfl54Y PxctJBNCrVzgW1OqGetUGMy6D07gw356p1tDywl15YzrUDxpAqVB4X6FZwdSjqSAHNYY ThAqz1bnygFlCzYqwJttPNGW9PtJebRT7bdCI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.11.82 with SMTP id 60mr965330wew.36.1242321822286; Thu, 14 May 2009 10:23:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7b160d240905130441m351791b2w5f7a6ab16ab919a5@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905140851m358a16e8sb827b848fa7c22b2@mail.gmail.com> From: Ross Smith Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:23:22 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905141023u7175636bsaa7abb36f3bff3da@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Thoughts on window sizing - now tiling To: Greg K Nicholson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:24:08 -0000 And another quick thought, although I suspect this may clash with existing behaviour: - You can use Alt to drag a window from anywhere within it. - Could we use Ctrl to activate this tiling / grouping mode? So without even entering Overlay mode, you could just hold down ctrl + alt and drag a bunch of windows together to tile them. If possible, I would also like to suggest that double-clicking while holding Alt maximises the window. Then it would be a few seconds work with the mouse then to create a maximised tiled setup with any number of windows. On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Greg K Nicholson wrote: >> I've added a page to the Wiki now, with some brief notes on this, and >> a suggestion for the Overlay interface: >> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/WindowTiling > > Evidently we mean different things by =93tiling=94: I mean that windows o= n > the workspace together occupy the entire workspace without > overlapping: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiling_window_manager > From william.jon.mccann@gmail.com Thu May 14 21:34:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69D047500B5 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 21:34:39 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 6007 hrs), (distance 13, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.221.129] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m3hwAecPsCo3 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 21:34:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-qy0-f129.google.com (mail-qy0-f129.google.com [209.85.221.129]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E6137500F5 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 21:34:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: by qyk35 with SMTP id 35so122400qyk.13 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 14:34:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=gHzSGkK2goQZqp+7p01hVsWfL6R/Js6lSebNgaMHg4Y=; b=wcruB1OAcD/qd3f4NRKFTBCFL7W2K7OXIQ3O1r2+bUmJk7SKAdHmPYIvIcpFR5Uh6+ tob61tHH5bfvZeSqcUGXLpSc+BoQFiMv+8vbHEAMwFFC2T/Fs2VgT7eJ9IXt4cYjzNll +qaZrFDiSaLjq2SNQT+mSuzgv/10Ye+Snj2AQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=SRwl5fY+QxXo60NvwDuU0E5a8AOldpGRGml6Yug2xZkWB11K1yVtU4R+ix5OXxIRj2 Z6DsHLVIJW/Bl8g2nMVM9fEuEiJ/lFj26FJR5GDxJq0Il0ar9Sgm3GgS9u1TT/PeVBJG nNUN6B2ubiadW2m8PRjd9Ik2MnXY3o1wVVfpc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.73.69 with SMTP id p5mr4383338vcj.11.1242336860700; Thu, 14 May 2009 14:34:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> References: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:34:20 -0400 Message-ID: <939dd5750905141434k21941e13h10044ef7892e363f@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 From: William Jon McCann To: Jeremy Perry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 21:34:39 -0000 Hi Jeremy, On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Jeremy Perry wro= te: > Thanks Marina, Jon and =A0the rest of the desktop team for your thoughtfu= l > feedback on the previous mockups. I've finally posted some new stuff base= d > on this, hope you enjoy. > > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternativ= e02 > > The earlier iteration is linked at the top of that page as well. Thanks so much for working on these. They look really nice to me. Except for basically one thing :) I'm still not sure we need all those categories. But the way you're presenting it here with an All option makes it much better. The main thing I'm not excited about is the way the search box is disconnected from the search results. It is also inconsistent with the way the other "more" and "info" actions work. I also don't think we want to place the seach box onto the panel outside the overlay. Maybe something like this instead?: ( Activities ) |--------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------- | ______________________ __ __________________________ | | Travel | |__ > | Results for "Travel" X | | ------------------------------------- | | | | TIME | | Firefox Pidgin Totem | | Hopefully that ascii art is somewhat understandable. Jon From gregknicholson@gmail.com Thu May 14 22:31:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D91750105 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 22:31:52 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 6306 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.207] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kYdVWWdQ1DsW for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 22:31:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f207.google.com (mail-bw0-f207.google.com [209.85.218.207]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 825C77500F5 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 22:31:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so1512273bwz.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:31:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VHSoGjzk7cJQruOxflNxSqGTG4d1rp2LJdlHHa7YIN4=; b=FZa7Cc4yT96HMDzWzZ+1wVawR/fSyZvWP8iJYBnBL0QxSRN6dH/Xj2cl4/Lj4++X+n k9G5bc2GEIezdPl3rJxHPFhctoI/HHzj6NBINcdh91Mg+dccdk4H3V+14dV5uQrfHsMn RX82Ox2IHr1OMFHP70eTisxPGRDe5GhPs01AQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=ikavs+eLPBVzDFdxTuPXCRYyY0HINeQv6nqn/4WLVhySvr62H90t/55bTSaCNjYkof 3xCCC/lVhDHhcjJwXLqA+WNwVFQBdC21j6MGp27UUlX6YI/eq38Z9m9odHKRApmQAhxi XXpzpOP6pwmRnO4jxKN2HUud6Q6IQDrdBfo3w= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gregknicholson@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.69.143 with SMTP id z15mr2597346bki.29.1242340295939; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:31:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905141016i6e9f60daj2075fd6e75d60146@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905130441m351791b2w5f7a6ab16ab919a5@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905140851m358a16e8sb827b848fa7c22b2@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905141016i6e9f60daj2075fd6e75d60146@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 23:31:35 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: e9654d6b8b536b00 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Thoughts on window sizing - now tiling From: Greg K Nicholson To: Ross Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 22:31:52 -0000 > Yes, that's what I understand tiling window managers to mean, and > that's how this would work when you maximise a group of applications. Ah, yeah=E2=80=94I hadn't considered that the tiling WM is just a special-c= ase example of your proposal. > I see this it as being a little more accessible to beginners, and > possibly easier to use than a standard window manager, since you can > choose to tile or until arbitrary sets of windows. For those familiar with overlapping windows (i.e. lots of people), yeah, I agree. I think the UI for attaching windows to each other would be easy to get wro= ng. How about: Any windows snapped together (without any special modifier) become tiled. There's a button on the combined title bar to separate them again. (The button's icon might show two windows side-by-side, separated by a couple of icon-pixels.) From myxiplx@googlemail.com Thu May 14 22:59:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF4077500B5 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 22:59:33 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 4177 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CeBZRk6Br6tj for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 22:59:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F7E7500B4 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 22:59:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1837653ewy.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:59:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=km2fp1UpmI7Ze9I23pueRIuiPzdPhltTdJ7tErZfCv4=; b=Mlmv4szgHItyxSnYTEnZMHgvSVrhNSl92N178zfbICcOPiXUOmL1vT3kicsaKHyQja t4ZYEVunuZ5OoZdCte37QYgBg+T9upLadR26rBTzZYlf/3BWlvThyTFi69W/keQ6/JEh b9jkB1zvh1Xd4PKjdEcu3Em6fbxzp39bQAL1Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jaBfZw0zfbzIW9+jLFoy0Nir2gh/ZolgkOc1OMlUU7P9CcyUzCrdwiGF3RLUDK8t/n u3wAUxIrQhuw2S5KI7L+9TAJumr1xKPp/WiyeAf4UlVcYxPWG9AUFPOL2Tzc6s5+gUQj TQcZC7yH0445MuX2EXIAFgdT0tb8+kP5/LlzM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.49.194 with SMTP id x44mr1020832web.130.1242341954229; Thu, 14 May 2009 15:59:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7b160d240905130441m351791b2w5f7a6ab16ab919a5@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905140851m358a16e8sb827b848fa7c22b2@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905141016i6e9f60daj2075fd6e75d60146@mail.gmail.com> From: Ross Smith Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 23:58:54 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905141558l47e9580wc38f47234e74fb3e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Thoughts on window sizing - now tiling To: Greg K Nicholson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 22:59:34 -0000 >> I see this it as being a little more accessible to beginners, and >> possibly easier to use than a standard window manager, since you can >> choose to tile or until arbitrary sets of windows. > > For those familiar with overlapping windows (i.e. lots of people), > yeah, I agree. > > I think the UI for attaching windows to each other would be easy to get wrong. > > How about: Any windows snapped together (without any special modifier) > become tiled. There's a button on the combined title bar to separate > them again. (The button's icon might show two windows side-by-side, > separated by a couple of icon-pixels.) The problem then is you're changing the default behaviour, which will almost certainly annoy a lot of people. A key point to the idea is that you make the gnome-shell overlay the first place to learn about this, so that people can realize that there are improvements to the ways they arrange windows now. Then once they are familiar with that, the system can teach them about holding down Ctrl. My preferred way to do that would be to pop up a tip notification the 2nd or 3rd time they join windows together like this - so you're just teaching the people who are actively using it. And once somebody has learnt about the ctrl key modifier (if that proves possible), the nice thing is that it preserves existing behaviour, while still making tiling very seamless. Most of the time you can drag windows around as normal, but any time you want to tile a bunch together, you just hold down ctrl any time they get close. It makes separating windows easy too - drag without ctrl and the whole group moves. Drag with ctrl and you split a window off. Let go of ctrl while dragging, and you can place that wherever you like, without any danger of it sticking to another window by accident. From gregknicholson@gmail.com Thu May 14 23:33:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 724C6750106 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 23:33:44 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 6317 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.207] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6oBxah5Ltl23 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 23:33:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f207.google.com (mail-bw0-f207.google.com [209.85.218.207]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C7237500B4 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 23:33:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so1530889bwz.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 16:33:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=K4F0hpmmN2orMQkThOtfMTgq7Q0KV8XpvywcMA0B8YQ=; b=Tqxol6Ln6zW0l28lhtyCjcH+7oh25b23PN1tI0+Sdeg26lJGMS/3y2uZcABdFCEMTk fP6g8zC4CxjNd05DRG77rTeqnCf3dExCepE9BkBx158CclnvvySINaKX/4UWUtE3ebUm MikiVuuWln3CdJ7MGBeGU0Huh6Jtdmqsa3z4w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=C3N/HnFf4Xlrs1wHRPX5/3brL5GBXBPi2AqBmMbxEtDBNkEaYty1ZAgw5/9cGwYdS3 1z3IYLmOT9bZsrej5M6PHcJE8rCPyKBhWLtl5xcr4QswqMHQEFa525wLjZkgnfFRcuWa OmS7t1IF+A69p93aKiGgMwLdw7AQ4D3pKF50k= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gregknicholson@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.52.135 with SMTP id i7mr2650602bkg.154.1242344006646; Thu, 14 May 2009 16:33:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905141558l47e9580wc38f47234e74fb3e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905130441m351791b2w5f7a6ab16ab919a5@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905140851m358a16e8sb827b848fa7c22b2@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905141016i6e9f60daj2075fd6e75d60146@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905141558l47e9580wc38f47234e74fb3e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 00:33:26 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 108433f352e8661e Message-ID: Subject: Re: Thoughts on window sizing - now tiling From: Greg K Nicholson To: Ross Smith Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 23:33:44 -0000 > A key point to the idea is that you make the gnome-shell overlay the > first place to learn about this, so that people can realize that there > are improvements to the ways they arrange windows now. =C2=A0Then once th= ey > are familiar with that, the system can teach them about holding down > Ctrl. > > My preferred way to do that would be to pop up a tip notification the > 2nd or 3rd time they join windows together like this - so you're just > teaching the people who are actively using it. > > And once somebody has learnt about the ctrl key modifier (if that > proves possible), the nice thing is that it preserves existing > behaviour, while still making tiling very seamless. =C2=A0Most of the tim= e > you can drag windows around as normal, but any time you want to tile a > bunch together, you just hold down ctrl any time they get close. > > It makes separating windows easy too - drag without ctrl and the whole > group moves. =C2=A0Drag with ctrl and you split a window off. =C2=A0Let g= o of > ctrl while dragging, and you can place that wherever you like, without > any danger of it sticking to another window by accident. > Actually, yeah=E2=80=94that makes a lot of sense. Great idea. I don't think we even need the Clippy-type [;)] tooltip. MS are using video demos (i.e. advertising) to introduce jump menus (right-clicking on a taskbar button): I think we could get away with publicising the modifier key in the Gnome 3.0 release-buzz. It'd certainly get mentioned in an Ars Tech, Register or Lifehacker review, for example. From myxiplx@googlemail.com Thu May 14 23:42:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 790A4750106 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 23:42:36 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 4184 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HBrha+57iYdm for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 23:42:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B768750105 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 23:42:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1856164ewy.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 16:42:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=if0g0R8YR/lYDtbm/nt1PJeHNxnC0EC9MIJgICKGj6Y=; b=VAdh8ocO9cEAxOmln/ouW8HXTLidL0dXE2NjwtpQUrZXX21Q4/aRPJTSO2Znw+hq3a wST7K9mmaFD3qqlzk1D6yze78+7Uzpa7Gooh5Bildrdarj3dCTqLUDM2SbYaSAN5welu VObp85fBuA0eFsQxyZjf620O8VCg0CZiBZxxE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Pm0O+lmPkmnYp99BGIXhmfq2P7FsnUjzB1wZZXpHrwMdVlmUEHRL5cOGdf1CLuAHIP O/QfCYlJFR68XLkOCZEEp9D6Cr1Zj8NlL3VBT+AKunI/2OWNJvoFmXiUBu9zDN7GldZE t2B8s7xEkA25iNVCj7XYbzSpB1hSVlAvZ8De8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.37.79 with SMTP id x57mr1026726wea.160.1242344536102; Thu, 14 May 2009 16:42:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7b160d240905130441m351791b2w5f7a6ab16ab919a5@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905140851m358a16e8sb827b848fa7c22b2@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905141016i6e9f60daj2075fd6e75d60146@mail.gmail.com> <7b160d240905141558l47e9580wc38f47234e74fb3e@mail.gmail.com> From: Ross Smith Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 00:41:56 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905141641w4ba82a10na9c768f46e396ed@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Thoughts on window sizing - now tiling To: Greg K Nicholson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 23:42:36 -0000 I actually think you could use both. Done well, a set of training videos showing off the features would be really cool. You could have them built into the help system, browsable, and also uploaded to YouTube, etc. Hell, if you want to be really flash, have 'help' or 'help videos' as one of the categories you can browse within the document browser, with the videos playing while you're still in the overlay. I might just be creating extra work for no reason now though, so feel free to ignore that idea :-D What I do know is that everybody I've shown the current gnome-shell youtube videos to has been blown away (and not techies either - I've been gauging response on ordinary folks in the office at work). Everybody has instantly understood the concept of multiple desktops, and most of them have seen that and gone "wow!". Not one so far has said "why would I want to do that?". So, a subtle tip, along with a quick video of how to do it would be a great way to learn. And since it's easy to record videos with gnome-shell, it should be easy to create them too :-D On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Greg K Nicholson wrote: >> A key point to the idea is that you make the gnome-shell overlay the >> first place to learn about this, so that people can realize that there >> are improvements to the ways they arrange windows now. =A0Then once they >> are familiar with that, the system can teach them about holding down >> Ctrl. >> >> My preferred way to do that would be to pop up a tip notification the >> 2nd or 3rd time they join windows together like this - so you're just >> teaching the people who are actively using it. >> >> And once somebody has learnt about the ctrl key modifier (if that >> proves possible), the nice thing is that it preserves existing >> behaviour, while still making tiling very seamless. =A0Most of the time >> you can drag windows around as normal, but any time you want to tile a >> bunch together, you just hold down ctrl any time they get close. >> >> It makes separating windows easy too - drag without ctrl and the whole >> group moves. =A0Drag with ctrl and you split a window off. =A0Let go of >> ctrl while dragging, and you can place that wherever you like, without >> any danger of it sticking to another window by accident. >> > > Actually, yeah=97that makes a lot of sense. Great idea. > > I don't think we even need the Clippy-type [;)] tooltip. MS are using > video demos (i.e. advertising) to introduce jump menus (right-clicking > on a taskbar button): I think we could get away with publicising the > modifier key in the Gnome 3.0 release-buzz. It'd certainly get > mentioned in an Ars Tech, Register or Lifehacker review, for example. > From myxiplx@googlemail.com Fri May 15 05:48:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B6C575010A for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 05:48:37 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.522 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_JH=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 4245 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FY0rcR1FHmXL for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 05:48:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B78E750119 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 05:48:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1973273ewy.15 for ; Thu, 14 May 2009 22:48:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=c1Y9uP9aId4UI0scxvPBNI21/Qk40Ok7WEcJDFyTzeQ=; b=jJceB717BXISZZ42aNFRP7RuHdlBuTCU7AMfu2oR9PgqW1zYzGWWBeolevk2DkAzq0 mdWEhuISPyrZIOyfOKqlU8mfuvXgeN/ufj6kojPY4TJq4qDHEu+fJOcNp9dIpRQXrW1G 2jq72b9dKRV8jPFuAXrsCueefisI+yNw/KywA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=R9CvsTWk9EBo+1h0BYGw16cmWxQm0okjSjDm1gFtJ/cdHrTlCMZGb6Vo915D3O73Y3 gIeaJCJFV6N8P83r3xLEDpjghKb8fpNp6YwcXU4xGBzC4CHWucG9nMzxT9SS/JbE0FTB R9DD3bM/HFjAntkG3cAQXViYrCvH3+He7HP4A= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.10.72 with SMTP id 50mr1078361weu.127.1242366497228; Thu, 14 May 2009 22:48:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Ross Smith Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 06:47:57 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905142247s97274aes8e762e29d2820e24@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Updating to the latest version / rolling back to a working one To: gnome-shell-list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 05:48:37 -0000 Hi folks, Could I ask for some help for a git newbie? I tried to get the latest version yesterday, but gnome-shell just kept crashing, which after lurking on the IRC channel, I guess is a bug in the current build. Could I ask: - Does running jhbuild download and compile the latest code each time, or does it just re-compile what I have? - Do I need to run git fetch or something to get updates? - Can I roll back to an earlier commit if the latest is broken? Is "git log --summary" the best way to see where to go back to? - I used these instructions to install breadcrumbs: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell-list/2009-May/msg00037.html But I couldn't revert back to master, instead I had to use "git checkout master -f". Is that normal? And finally, the big one: - Is there any danger of me breaking the repository? I really hope I have read only access. thanks, Ross From dino@phidev.org Fri May 15 09:42:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257A1750143 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 09:42:36 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) (up: 5030 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [208.75.85.225] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rxaj4--3BEuN for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 09:42:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from franz-pletz.org (franz-pletz.org [208.75.85.225]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8F3C750146 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 09:42:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [130.75.153.215] (unknown [130.75.153.215]) by franz-pletz.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8EBCAE98CC; Fri, 15 May 2009 09:42:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Get rid of the scrollbars From: Florian Ludwig To: Jeremy Perry In-Reply-To: <8614ECE2-ECDD-44D4-A3D9-CD5F968D56C3@redhat.com> References: <2b0573450905131948x1e613ac9mb21a1bb8525a6b70@mail.gmail.com> <8614ECE2-ECDD-44D4-A3D9-CD5F968D56C3@redhat.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-ZFnPfKwfTa8/f/jd4fqm" Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 11:42:14 +0200 Message-Id: <1242380534.5179.1139.camel@snowball> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1.1 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 09:42:36 -0000 --=-ZFnPfKwfTa8/f/jd4fqm Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 09:12 -0400, Jeremy Perry wrote: > Another option is to reduce what we already have today into > something =20 > very minimal when not in use. The scrollbar could be represented as > a =20 > simple line down the right side, giving a clue that there is =20 > scrollable area and a sense of how much, as indicated by the length > of =20 > a highlighted portion of the line. When the user gestures over the =20 > scrollbar area, a fuller, more conventional scrollbar would appear =20 > with arrows, etc. Personally I dont like those "auto hiding" UI features, using them (or using them by accident) is often more a fight than a usage. Esp. with small targets like scrollbars it might be nasty. But I agree that there is room for improvement on scrollbars. Talking about scrollbars you might have a look on: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D530413 Some interesting ideas and points brought up in the comments, also the demo is interesting. It might got a lot to improve but shows nicely other ways how to interact with scrollbars. --=20 Florian Ludwig --=-ZFnPfKwfTa8/f/jd4fqm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkoNOPMACgkQ7YLFLonkgDThngCeJP+Xz8MYgDbkZsRZeRzfHwQI 8K0Amwb7Ymp82Z8dRUp5q3NNtEIpSDuN =LGSA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-ZFnPfKwfTa8/f/jd4fqm-- From myxiplx@googlemail.com Fri May 15 10:00:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 308857500CF for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:00:33 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 6548 hrs), (distance 16, link: (Google 2)), [74.125.78.26] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D9R1js2G0zT3 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:00:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com (ey-out-2122.google.com [74.125.78.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD3B4750146 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:00:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id d26so775026eyd.9 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 03:00:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=/5ep2BtEp337ZnZVMkdUDshR3r8fWjKTBqBEx1jXKfI=; b=ihDLp7Hh8eDOl0ESbNKLYs2z7IWfzI10nfwO2IOvQpWkAgQwPbcasOYTBOkPPR2FrO ZpRCQ4WD65gaCx25d8vsnRBmkGnTfSeDi4p2mwANAWeaxPfrFf/tSeVsYBa7zDvP+esO HjOmLqz8qt+BeaErMmObmrmA2MdyAtlZwEWUE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=IS6PYwzS/ph2o2mlrxfZmaMhKXT6/4xwJqOvaqJqD/xukBxwa/2mYBUVkGIxsbD2sY uxYfzMYh476OvlZ7Y2FMnhX2cxLn8oVHnhoFVV25zCMJ5C44lHsx9k2YdPR3CpLdjPjw uI3IHzlUfQNLNsY9Sq9H7HvNYADT+3iwy5PSE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.10.72 with SMTP id 50mr1137329weu.127.1242381612198; Fri, 15 May 2009 03:00:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1242380534.5179.1139.camel@snowball> References: <2b0573450905131948x1e613ac9mb21a1bb8525a6b70@mail.gmail.com> <8614ECE2-ECDD-44D4-A3D9-CD5F968D56C3@redhat.com> <1242380534.5179.1139.camel@snowball> From: Ross Smith Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:59:52 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905150259y1c38e0f5ga843970a646af9fb@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Get rid of the scrollbars To: Florian Ludwig Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:00:33 -0000 Thanks for the link, that video does look interesting. It could do with a few extra visual clues to the features, but it's got some nice benefits: - No need to look for the scroll tab location, just click & drag to scroll (especially handy as with some colour schemes I find the gnome scroll tab is not that obvious) - Effectively huge buttons for scrolling up & down The main change to me is that it's removing the page up/down feature that's hardly ever used (since some times it's a huge area, and some times it's tiny), and replacing it with the ability to grab anywhere & scroll. I'm not actually sure about having the up/down click arrows appearing, it's a nice idea, but it might be one that's a bit too clever for its own good. What I'm wondering is whether you could just use this to replace the page up/down with something better? In fact, could you add that behaviour without breaking anything existing? - Single click in that area does page up/down as normal - Click and drag now scrolls Ross PS. Is there any way at all you could add anonymous usability tracking to Gnome? Getting some feedback on how often people use features like this would surely be useful? PPS. Once again, this would be a feature I'd like to add to my 'tip system' - when somebody drags the scroll bar, or clicks to page up/down, let them know about being able to drag anywhere. On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Florian Ludwig wrote: > On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 09:12 -0400, Jeremy Perry wrote: >> Another option is to reduce what we already have today into >> something >> very minimal when not in use. The scrollbar could be represented as >> a >> simple line down the right side, giving a clue that there is >> scrollable area and a sense of how much, as indicated by the length >> of >> a =A0highlighted portion of the line. When the user gestures over the >> scrollbar area, a fuller, more conventional scrollbar would appear >> with arrows, etc. > Personally I dont like those "auto hiding" UI features, using them (or > using them by accident) is often more a fight than a usage. Esp. with > small targets like scrollbars it might be nasty. But I agree that there > is room for improvement on scrollbars. > > Talking about scrollbars you might have a look on: > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D530413 > > Some interesting ideas and points brought up in the comments, also the > demo is interesting. It might got a lot to improve but shows nicely > other ways how to interact with scrollbars. > > -- > Florian Ludwig > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > > From dino@phidev.org Fri May 15 10:06:47 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 355DA7500CF for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:06:47 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) (up: 5031 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [208.75.85.225] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id epINQzdfzkuV for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:06:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from franz-pletz.org (franz-pletz.org [208.75.85.225]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42B7375002E for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:06:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [130.75.153.215] (unknown [130.75.153.215]) by franz-pletz.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 15F14E98CC; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:06:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 From: Florian Ludwig To: Jeremy Perry In-Reply-To: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> References: <40F24024-52ED-4319-977B-3650BE395139@redhat.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-+tvJ3dyGfTs6vTnvsqWD" Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 12:06:27 +0200 Message-Id: <1242381987.5179.1165.camel@snowball> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1.1 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:06:47 -0000 --=-+tvJ3dyGfTs6vTnvsqWD Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 2009-05-13 at 16:21 -0400, Jeremy Perry wrote:=20 > Thanks Marina, Jon and the rest of the desktop team for your =20 > thoughtful feedback on the previous mockups. I've finally posted some =20 > new stuff based on this, hope you enjoy. >=20 > http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/AppBrowsingAlternativ= e02 Nice work! Some Comments: * The more buttons got a magnifying glass on them so they look like search buttons but they are not. Maybe use a plus sign? * Why is the more button for applications not uniform with the other more buttons? IMHO the button should be at least right-align as the others are. This way the reference between the button and the overlay is clearer. * Bringing this work together with the ideas on the panel, there will=20 be something (what ever it will be) the search field will overlap, it might look awkward. * Where are the sources? I thought this for several mocksup I saw so far, where are the source files of the graphics, so you can more=20 easily create derivatives to show your thoughts and comment=20 visually. --=20 Florian Ludwig --=-+tvJ3dyGfTs6vTnvsqWD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkoNPqEACgkQ7YLFLonkgDQLngCfQVb2jdHatN4G3gxgGAkqvANK u7AAn08zW9xtqg1JQNn/3ldmTEXAJ6As =MQv3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-+tvJ3dyGfTs6vTnvsqWD-- From aantny@gmail.com Fri May 15 10:23:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7916175018B for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:23:35 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3054 hrs), (distance 14, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.220.226] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rJaOSgZOQKHW for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:23:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-fx0-f226.google.com (mail-fx0-f226.google.com [209.85.220.226]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEFF37501BF for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 10:23:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fxm26 with SMTP id 26so1739232fxm.15 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 03:23:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=dW/9UsLSp78Hhaatn1o76wbdnOJSXxlBJu/KKSXp0as=; b=OBRrGxi2u0+LlhdlnvakaQI2QRDcbQKFDtA7I3EpWBJtZnHRHWxH7UnB89Edxh7TQ+ oTOPyemVbznLvGEStnEuJehtNRvdg5aj9IKTXxjCGU6PP+rz01FSTIU+5S06zbtG3fWn x2ZEz38uEnO214mNxx+kpjnZ7c/er3XW0Ukm4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=v260aG5WZJcCpBaWcfoMm9aoz8Exn5wFP5WdiiaG3AIXzfNCCBxQIxwWap/0ohKlDh JfJ6uU0pFd8412VPHFid1N0f0L7PjCTMsLNmj4sx5hT21+lHA+ZYbFDHtmbG/OKsWppm GRndsjOLx+dk6uvAikXjMN0AebgfVGSpFldXs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.4.7 with SMTP id 7mr3500868fgd.46.1242382995168; Fri, 15 May 2009 03:23:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1242380534.5179.1139.camel@snowball> References: <2b0573450905131948x1e613ac9mb21a1bb8525a6b70@mail.gmail.com> <8614ECE2-ECDD-44D4-A3D9-CD5F968D56C3@redhat.com> <1242380534.5179.1139.camel@snowball> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 13:23:15 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Get rid of the scrollbars From: Natan Yellin To: Florian Ludwig Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd295561a1f0c0469f0d543 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:23:35 -0000 --000e0cd295561a1f0c0469f0d543 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I played around with another idea for scrollbars a few months where I tried adding titles into different points on the scrollbar. If anyone is interested, the code for it can be found at https://code.launchpad.net/~aantny/+junk/scrollbar-experiments (Note that the code is more of a mockup than a demo, and it's not yet functional.) Natan On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Florian Ludwig wrote: > On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 09:12 -0400, Jeremy Perry wrote: > > Another option is to reduce what we already have today into > > something > > very minimal when not in use. The scrollbar could be represented as > > a > > simple line down the right side, giving a clue that there is > > scrollable area and a sense of how much, as indicated by the length > > of > > a highlighted portion of the line. When the user gestures over the > > scrollbar area, a fuller, more conventional scrollbar would appear > > with arrows, etc. > Personally I dont like those "auto hiding" UI features, using them (or > using them by accident) is often more a fight than a usage. Esp. with > small targets like scrollbars it might be nasty. But I agree that there > is room for improvement on scrollbars. > > Talking about scrollbars you might have a look on: > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=530413 > > Some interesting ideas and points brought up in the comments, also the > demo is interesting. It might got a lot to improve but shows nicely > other ways how to interact with scrollbars. > > -- > Florian Ludwig > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > > --000e0cd295561a1f0c0469f0d543 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I played around with another idea for scrollbars a few mon= ths where I tried adding titles into different points on the scrollbar. If = anyone is interested, the code for it can be found at https://code.launchpa= d.net/~aantny/+junk/scrollbar-experiments

(Note that the code is more of a mockup than a demo, and it's not y= et functional.)

Natan

On Fri, May = 15, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Florian Ludwig <dino@phidev.org> wrote:
On Thu, 2009-05-1= 4 at 09:12 -0400, Jeremy Perry wrote:
> Another option is to reduce what we already have today into
> something
> very minimal when not in use. The scrollbar could be represented as > a
> simple line down the right side, giving a clue that there is
> scrollable area and a sense of how much, as indicated by the length > of
> a =A0highlighted portion of the line. When the user gestures over the<= br> > scrollbar area, a fuller, more conventional scrollbar would appear
> with arrows, etc.
Personally I dont like those "auto hiding" UI features, using the= m (or
using them by accident) is often more a fight than a usage. Esp. with
small targets like scrollbars it might be nasty. But I agree that there
is room for improvement on scrollbars.

Talking about scrollbars you might have a look on:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D530413

Some interesting ideas and points brought up in the comments, also the
demo is interesting. It might got a lot to improve but shows nicely
other ways how to interact with scrollbars.

--
Florian Ludwig <dino@phidev.org&g= t;

_______________________________________________
gnome-shell-list mailing list
gnome-shell-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list


--000e0cd295561a1f0c0469f0d543-- From t_w_@freenet.de Fri May 15 11:31:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AFD175014D for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 11:31:43 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 3425 hrs), (distance 20, link: ethernet/modem), [195.4.92.94] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ST5DikLU+ciY for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 11:31:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mout4.freenet.de (mout4.freenet.de [195.4.92.94]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A91D57500D3 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 11:31:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [195.4.92.20] (helo=10.mx.freenet.de) by mout4.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID t_w_@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.69 #91) id 1M4vdK-0000OP-Rr for gnome-shell-list@gnome.org; Fri, 15 May 2009 13:31:22 +0200 Received: from p50896bf5.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.137.107.245]:53499 helo=[192.168.178.21]) by 10.mx.freenet.de with esmtpsa (ID t_w_@freenet.de) (SSLv3:AES256-SHA:256) (port 465) (Exim 4.69 #79) id 1M4vdK-0002C6-9U for gnome-shell-list@gnome.org; Fri, 15 May 2009 13:31:22 +0200 Subject: Re: Get rid of the scrollbars From: Thorsten Wilms To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905150259y1c38e0f5ga843970a646af9fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b0573450905131948x1e613ac9mb21a1bb8525a6b70@mail.gmail.com> <8614ECE2-ECDD-44D4-A3D9-CD5F968D56C3@redhat.com> <1242380534.5179.1139.camel@snowball> <7b160d240905150259y1c38e0f5ga843970a646af9fb@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 13:31:21 +0200 Message-Id: <1242387081.3252.10.camel@charly> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list Reply-To: t_w_@freenet.de List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 11:31:43 -0000 Hi! I'm the one responsible for this scrollbar concept, later on renamed to "dynamic scrollbars" because of complaints "popup" would be misleading. On Fri, 2009-05-15 at 10:59 +0100, Ross Smith wrote: > The main change to me is that it's removing the page up/down feature > that's hardly ever used (since some times it's a huge area, and some > times it's tiny), and replacing it with the ability to grab anywhere & > scroll. > > I'm not actually sure about having the up/down click arrows appearing, > it's a nice idea, but it might be one that's a bit too clever for its > own good. > > What I'm wondering is whether you could just use this to replace the > page up/down with something better? In fact, could you add that > behaviour without breaking anything existing? > - Single click in that area does page up/down as normal > - Click and drag now scrolls A number of people said that they do use the page up/down feature of scrollbars. I changed the behavior after publishing the demo. If you now click and hold on the trough, page-wise scrolling will happen after a short delay. This way dragging still works with no unwanted scrolling. Last version, which might behave in odd ways, resides at: https://code.launchpad.net/~t-w-/+junk/dynamic_scrollbar I started to implement a horizontal version and then stopped to instead work on more rewarding projects (I'm not a GTK coder and hardly ever will be ...) -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ From ferkiwi@gmail.com Fri May 15 12:07:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C23A750185 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 12:07:37 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:49:0:60:M1430,S,T,N,W9:.:?:?] (up: 5933 hrs), (link: (Google 2)), [209.85.128.187] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WI-8hgOwXKXz for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 12:07:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com (fk-out-0910.google.com [209.85.128.187]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2E8A7500D3 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 12:07:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id f33so1068771fkf.15 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 05:07:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:reply-to:in-reply-to :references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=4kag6qd4hVSvj+jR4pRiITZG9OPawi5U7hSAySb8dyE=; b=VFDXI7Ue/QH8uozZnMFSdycTbCD+PudtbgY8NTetGHavgnOLwIxeJsa57g8rCYIrxP M/7xI+PmQjhDXjvjyI78sUO4Hj3Ttnf1nFFdXVIv3ED4cgPnGECJxT+JT4KcwEVxaRqu xO7+4r3jvn9VarC00OKGgDGInHjXt1ZtlExPg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=CsGNrzJgzCqzWpixXjMkvTMMPexDM1ev5aj2LBKp6EdDQEaBCuw1jF8PwgtNdqRbC7 TBk1jpCbtm/BPkxDKhdCqqai32SsOg1a6FH8G1DbHOkEVFBoly0C/pmUh10+0NRVxQoz kBu1E67CnoK4P0XbFkiaMZeYkkjVwgyIzs/74= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.124.147 with SMTP id u19mr2524337far.28.1242389241208; Fri, 15 May 2009 05:07:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2b0573450905131948x1e613ac9mb21a1bb8525a6b70@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b0573450905131948x1e613ac9mb21a1bb8525a6b70@mail.gmail.com> From: Fernando Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 14:07:01 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Get rid of the scrollbars To: "foss[ilized]" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list Reply-To: ferkiwi+a@gmail.com List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 12:07:37 -0000 On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 4:48 AM, foss[ilized] wrote: > Just a thought: one of the ugliest graphical items I see on almost all > of today's desktop environments is the scrollbar. > > I think it's time to get rid of scrollbars. With the push toward > "touch" computing, the scrollbar becomes a hindrance rather than an > aid to navigation. Users with large, wide or "clumsy" fingers are at a > disadvantage when trying to click, press or drag a scrollbar to pan > (move) a window up, down, left or right. The problem is not scrollbars... What you are searching for is an easier way to scroll, I don't see why scrollbars have to be removed for getting that. You can still scroll by keyboard, by using the mouse wheel, using the two finger dragging in touchpads and for touch screens you can also propose a way for scrolling (ie. by double finger dragging in multi touch screens). But wanting to remove scrollbars is a totally different thing. If you want to give more power to touch screens better propose an alternative way, like having mouse gestures that you can use your fingers to perform any task like that. -- Fernando From nalimilan@club.fr Fri May 15 13:31:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6134475002E for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 13:31:46 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.722 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.722 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8, TW_JH=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:43:1:60:M1380, S, T, N, W8:.:?:?] (NAT!) (up: 6727 hrs), (link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [93.17.128.10] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SorYRBGWYDUV for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 13:31:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp22.services.sfr.fr (smtp22.services.sfr.fr [93.17.128.10]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A89750007 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 13:31:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from filter.sfr.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by msfrf2203.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 368EF70000A2; Fri, 15 May 2009 15:31:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (95.182.68-86.rev.gaoland.net [86.68.182.95]) by msfrf2203.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E0E7D7000090; Fri, 15 May 2009 15:31:26 +0200 (CEST) X-SFR-UUID: 20090515133126921.E0E7D7000090@msfrf2203.sfr.fr Subject: Re: Updating to the latest version / rolling back to a working one From: Milan Bouchet-Valat To: Ross Smith In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905142247s97274aes8e762e29d2820e24@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b160d240905142247s97274aes8e762e29d2820e24@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 15:31:25 +0200 Message-Id: <1242394285.4417.9.camel@milan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: gnome-shell-list X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 13:31:46 -0000 Le vendredi 15 mai 2009 à 06:47 +0100, Ross Smith a écrit : > Hi folks, > > Could I ask for some help for a git newbie? I tried to get the latest > version yesterday, but gnome-shell just kept crashing, which after > lurking on the IRC channel, I guess is a bug in the current build. > > Could I ask: > - Does running jhbuild download and compile the latest code each time, > or does it just re-compile what I have? > - Do I need to run git fetch or something to get updates? 'jhbuild build' runs 'git fetch' on all packages and then rebuilds them automatically. So you don't need to update the local git repository manually. You may also want to call 'jhbuild buildone gnome-shell' if you don't want to update all the other packages. If you have strange bugs, you should try 'jhbuild build -ac' so that all packages are reconfigured too - sometimes it really helps. > - Can I roll back to an earlier commit if the latest is broken? Is > "git log --summary" the best way to see where to go back to? Sure, go to the gnome-shell source dir, and type 'git reset --hard REVISION'. 'git log' gives you the identifier of the revision you may want to try, just copy/paste it. > - I used these instructions to install breadcrumbs: > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell-list/2009-May/msg00037.html > But I couldn't revert back to master, instead I had to use "git > checkout master -f". Is that normal? Normally that shouldn't happen if you did not edit files. But using -f is not a problem if you don't fear to lose modifications you may have done to the source tree. > And finally, the big one: > - Is there any danger of me breaking the repository? I really hope I > have read only access. No problem, the repository is obviously not open to anybody in the world. You need to authenticate using SSH keys, and not all of us have even direct access to it. We use personal repositories to avoid breaking the main one with this kind of mistake... So you can play as you want with the sources, you can still get them clean again from the repo! ;-) From danw@gnome.org Fri May 15 13:35:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D93927500F5 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 13:35:43 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.522 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_Unix=-1, TW_JH=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: NetBSD 3.0 (DF), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [69.25.196.35] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0AbfSrnAJN75 for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 13:35:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mysterion.org (mysterion.org [69.25.196.35]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A458575002E for ; Fri, 15 May 2009 13:35:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from x61.home.mysterion.org (unknown [66.187.234.199]) by mysterion.org (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C70D98028C; Fri, 15 May 2009 09:35:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A0D6F86.1060604@gnome.org> Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 09:35:02 -0400 From: Dan Winship User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1b3pre) Gecko/20090513 Fedora/3.0-2.3.beta2.fc11 Thunderbird/3.0b2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ross Smith Subject: Re: Updating to the latest version / rolling back to a working one References: <7b160d240905142247s97274aes8e762e29d2820e24@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7b160d240905142247s97274aes8e762e29d2820e24@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 13:35:44 -0000 On 05/15/2009 01:47 AM, Ross Smith wrote: > - Does running jhbuild download and compile the latest code each time, > or does it just re-compile what I have? It always updates to the latest version. You can do "jhbuild build -n" to make it not update and just rebuild what is already there. Depending on exactly what you are doing, you may need "-f" as well, to force it to rebuild even if it thinks it doesn't need to. > - Do I need to run git fetch or something to get updates? No, this happens automatically > - Can I roll back to an earlier commit if the latest is broken? Is > "git log --summary" the best way to see where to go back to? Yes, you can "git checkout" an earlier commit id and then use "build -n" (or "buildone -n") to rebuild at that point. You must use "-n" in this case, or jhbuild will just move you back to HEAD though. However, doing this requires knowing *which* module had the commit that broke things, and then rolling that back may require rolling back other modules as well if there have been API changes. In general, there is no easy way to say "give me the build I would have gotten if I'd run jhbuild yesterday". > - I used these instructions to install breadcrumbs: > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell-list/2009-May/msg00037.html > But I couldn't revert back to master, instead I had to use "git > checkout master -f". Is that normal? You probably had local changes in your tree, so git wasn't letting you change branches. > And finally, the big one: > - Is there any danger of me breaking the repository? I really hope I > have read only access. You only have read access. -- Dan From kirillrdy@gmail.com Mon May 18 10:09:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA6E4750030 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 10:09:00 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 3915 hrs), (distance 14, link: (Google 2)), [74.125.46.31] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p7xt+1SZb-hv for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 10:08:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA0C775008C for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 10:08:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so1633383ywj.63 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 03:08:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type; bh=2JCkS5172e8X62HfA/doFPKM7xHfDphwi+jn9Ii3bNs=; b=Izh4CthXXZUVxSRlngw58790xcxDLjnQ4vptxj8rU29PPmSpQvG8tnUZKJnI5klSoU yKwes8FLOTWwoAX33Li6xTIK2R862hQ2ZREukwcstNEHLg5vKpSgp5GuCCBW4qyaQEFV WnoyV2quGZRxjHUANjMnC7pVwDuyfAGNUPKRk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; b=sZeKQDF8r2k+qsx3L0RigwBWxJ8XUhTZxQDNab2VERJH/moqs+1VxoZ+OouenTiNIq M0J1QBxNSXE3C7/KjfKQz0bzc1eaQar/f0bh1ypYcw6ZX81JdhXUQ2EHSqKmIaZRMetc QtP+uvT447SklYDHzCC+ZC1PGy06RS27T0csU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.10.15 with SMTP id 15mr8261090anj.117.1242641322631; Mon, 18 May 2009 03:08:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirill Radzikhovskyy Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:08:22 +1000 Message-ID: <89b403830905180308n3a19fa88j591fc7c3c12a948@mail.gmail.com> Subject: gnome-shell doesnt build To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64652fa9ec862046a2cfa15 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 10:09:01 -0000 --0016e64652fa9ec862046a2cfa15 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Starting 10afe4619505d159f6639e70a346902082671ff1 commit gnome-shell no longer builds, i suspect it depends on dev version of clutter-cairo (metacity:27928): metacity-CRITICAL **: failed to load plugins Invalid GType: 'big_box_get_type' failed to dump: Failed to find symbol 'big_box_get_type' Command '['metacity', '--mutter-plugins=/home/kirillvr/Desktop/gnome-shell2/src/libgnome-shell.la', '--introspect-dump=/tmp/tmp-introspect7c_5R9/types.txt,/tmp/tmp-introspect7c_5R9/dump.xml']' returned non-zero exit status 1 Suggestions ? -- Everything is made from a Dream - /-Sakurai Kazutoshi-/ "To iterate is human, to recurse, divine." -- Robert Heller "To recurse is human, to box a continuation into an object and send it across a network is divine. " -- Andy Kitchen P. J. O'Rourke - "Never fight an inanimate object." --0016e64652fa9ec862046a2cfa15 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Starting 10afe4619505d159f6639e70a346902082671ff1 commit gnome-shell no lon= ger builds,
i suspect it depends on dev version of clutter-cairo

= (metacity:27928): metacity-CRITICAL **: failed to load plugins
Invalid G= Type: 'big_box_get_type'
failed to dump: Failed to find symbol 'big_box_get_type'
Command= '['metacity', '--mutter-plugins=3D/home/kirillvr/Desktop/g= nome-shell2/src/libgnome-shell.la&= #39;, '--introspect-dump=3D/tmp/tmp-introspect7c_5R9/types.txt,/tmp/tmp= -introspect7c_5R9/dump.xml']' returned non-zero exit status 1


Suggestions ?


--
Everything is made fr= om a Dream - /-Sakurai Kazutoshi-/

"To iterate is human, to recurse, divine."
-- Robert Helle= r

"To recurse is human, to box a continuation into an object an= d send it across a network is divine. "
-- Andy Kitchen


P. J. O'Rourke =A0- "Never fight an inanim= ate object." --0016e64652fa9ec862046a2cfa15-- From danw@gnome.org Mon May 18 12:55:50 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B075A750069 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 12:55:50 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.522 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_Unix=-1, TW_KY=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: NetBSD 3.0 (DF), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [69.25.196.35] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jsS-Fnq865xA for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 12:55:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mysterion.org (mysterion.org [69.25.196.35]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57FFC750093 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 12:55:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from desktop.home.mysterion.org (c-24-99-22-247.hsd1.ga.comcast.net [24.99.22.247]) by mysterion.org (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 283398028C; Mon, 18 May 2009 08:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4A115AC2.40205@gnome.org> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 08:55:30 -0400 From: Dan Winship User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090320) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kirill Radzikhovskyy Subject: Re: gnome-shell doesnt build References: <89b403830905180308n3a19fa88j591fc7c3c12a948@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <89b403830905180308n3a19fa88j591fc7c3c12a948@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 12:55:50 -0000 Kirill Radzikhovskyy wrote: > Starting 10afe4619505d159f6639e70a346902082671ff1 commit gnome-shell no > longer builds, > i suspect it depends on dev version of clutter-cairo > > (metacity:27928): metacity-CRITICAL **: failed to load plugins > Invalid GType: 'big_box_get_type' BigBox is built as part of gnome-shell, so this wouldn't be caused by a problem in another module. Are you building exactly according to the directions in the wiki? If not, please do that. Otherwise you're on your own for figuring out why it isn't building for you. (It builds fine for me.) -- Dan From nalimilan@club.fr Mon May 18 20:18:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DEDE7500CB for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 20:18:06 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.722 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.722 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8, TW_KY=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:43:1:60:M1460,S,T,N,W8:.:?:?] (up: 6925 hrs), (link: ethernet/modem), [93.17.128.21] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kn3KSrSb6kni for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 20:18:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp23.services.sfr.fr (smtp23.services.sfr.fr [93.17.128.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2E267502E9 for ; Mon, 18 May 2009 20:17:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from filter.sfr.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by msfrf2312.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D453870000AD; Mon, 18 May 2009 22:17:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (13.182.68-86.rev.gaoland.net [86.68.182.13]) by msfrf2312.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 8F5AE70000AC; Mon, 18 May 2009 22:17:49 +0200 (CEST) X-SFR-UUID: 20090518201749587.8F5AE70000AC@msfrf2312.sfr.fr Subject: Re: gnome-shell doesnt build From: Milan Bouchet-Valat To: Kirill Radzikhovskyy In-Reply-To: <89b403830905180308n3a19fa88j591fc7c3c12a948@mail.gmail.com> References: <89b403830905180308n3a19fa88j591fc7c3c12a948@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:17:43 +0200 Message-Id: <1242677863.15908.16.camel@milan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 20:18:06 -0000 Le lundi 18 mai 2009 à 20:08 +1000, Kirill Radzikhovskyy a écrit : > Starting 10afe4619505d159f6639e70a346902082671ff1 commit gnome-shell > no longer builds, > i suspect it depends on dev version of clutter-cairo > > (metacity:27928): metacity-CRITICAL **: failed to load plugins > Invalid GType: 'big_box_get_type' > failed to dump: Failed to find symbol 'big_box_get_type' > Command '['metacity', > '--mutter-plugins=/home/kirillvr/Desktop/gnome-shell2/src/libgnome-shell.la', '--introspect-dump=/tmp/tmp-introspect7c_5R9/types.txt,/tmp/tmp-introspect7c_5R9/dump.xml']' returned non-zero exit status 1 > > > Suggestions ? I believe I've seen this lately. Just try, as you suggest, to update the whole dependencies using 'jhbuild build -ac gnome-shell'. From fosslistmail@googlemail.com Tue May 19 07:42:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F02D75032E for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 07:42:43 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 4131 hrs), (distance 14, link: (Google 2)), [74.125.46.31] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nrWRMOlp8MiL for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 07:42:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 126D7750024 for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 07:42:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so1949882ywj.63 for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 00:42:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=c9fE+dZtkhMDHuZAvGAjd3M0d/DG+rL9LR6Xx2jW6gE=; b=lHQrHyZuLKbmjuBP05Dd5MtevL1MNziV0Y8Gowd0XlKc/OQsxCKZcsup6ClLkubKtk q0gihXTiSk4gnK/mSL1oo1JWpMZL+ic8psSPT4jo3xPhj6NDwLfC60Jz5Sg45E/3QgjZ rFyE2+fp9e5b7MwDsJWlN/KLpRzYvOHRTU26M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=IO8GugBO12mLJpSmk7eUv9SwM2AKlKOOe4+j6rWxhfMT9KbG07e0e02dZOf2R6g5TK M4aA/jXJSAqVpQ+Uh/BMYo81/bE58VGv9pWjn4uE+Pc3k0CNSwKvN4RgvwYNJThnYOZ1 vCxWj1cgF2WPN77JQUG5CliSF70esk1gN6XI4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.92.17 with SMTP id p17mr10666631anb.138.1242718942739; Tue, 19 May 2009 00:42:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <2b0573450905131948x1e613ac9mb21a1bb8525a6b70@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 15:42:22 +0800 Message-ID: <2b0573450905190042s7cb7f99ah5219a38f23a3cb1c@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Get rid of the scrollbars From: "foss[ilized]" To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 07:42:43 -0000 On 5/15/09, Fernando wrote: > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 4:48 AM, foss[ilized] > wrote: >> Just a thought: one of the ugliest graphical items I see on almost all >> of today's desktop environments is the scrollbar. >> >> I think it's time to get rid of scrollbars. With the push toward >> "touch" computing, the scrollbar becomes a hindrance rather than an >> aid to navigation. Users with large, wide or "clumsy" fingers are at a >> disadvantage when trying to click, press or drag a scrollbar to pan >> (move) a window up, down, left or right. > > The problem is not scrollbars... What you are searching for is an > easier way to scroll, I don't see why scrollbars have to be removed > for getting that. Well, the problem for me is the scrollbars as a navigation tool. As an indicator, maybe it has its uses. However, there are alternatives. Look no further than the typical role-playing game. Instead of scrollbars they have maps, which may or may not work as navigation tools. The Gimp implements this mini-map concept when dealing with images or views too large to fit in the screen. Of course on a small screen, such a mini-map will be tinier than mini and will be just as difficult to use as a scrollbar. For an approximation of my idea of scrollbar-less navigation, take a look at (warning: fancy Javascript!) the home page of Sabayon Linux http://www.sabayonlinux.org/.) Of course, it may be argued that the screenshot bar is itself a giant scrollbar. My idea is to have the navigation surface large enough for "fat" fingers From myxiplx@googlemail.com Tue May 19 08:43:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E018A750125 for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 08:43:51 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 7495 hrs), (distance 16, link: (Google 2)), [74.125.78.25] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PV2vLVFunK3f for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 08:43:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com (ey-out-2122.google.com [74.125.78.25]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE6167500DA for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 08:43:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id d26so1740778eyd.9 for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 01:43:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=PII77s3OatQQkSz+ycJ0Q3DYArR+g7kgMwJtdphU+N8=; b=kl9jCQgWoG80qN2j795Y74QxYOeQHMFjq3zkQxBMcsuigZj5l8DcP3Qq0ALa78VIai 1tYNONlpBPkMevd1le/FVi4WmY/5qMMeR/86CFlXNg7cYAdvSYq9rvS/F4AFzFAUROHg BpnQ11TFsUeJkupToPCydMG1A4jccm72ZTjrE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=pBAKfUyc8hta2eY1lth5QBqbXoXhfhSIZ8ddcgnMnq9XtfnXg39/SE97hrU0Whqi9o cIiQFNAO4NW2cOfkAjWL220mZclL3c9Pc+II6huouBRCp0FYJIyafArm5Lh936Zna9kd 6/hwoJyIcIMv2SC1WFS/IhNhnVQ/hqWmMvsA0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.53.199 with SMTP id g49mr2386916wec.49.1242722611088; Tue, 19 May 2009 01:43:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2b0573450905190042s7cb7f99ah5219a38f23a3cb1c@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b0573450905131948x1e613ac9mb21a1bb8525a6b70@mail.gmail.com> <2b0573450905190042s7cb7f99ah5219a38f23a3cb1c@mail.gmail.com> From: Ross Smith Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 09:43:11 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905190143r110fa48bk944eae50bb3f90b8@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Get rid of the scrollbars To: "foss[ilized]" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 08:43:52 -0000 Huh? You're seriously arguing that a tiny thumbnail is easier to use than a scroll bar that spans the entire height of the window? I'm sorry, but I really don't see the problem with scrollbars. They do their job well, and take up a minimal amount of screen space. If you're going to suggest replacing them, you need to find something that: - Is intuitive to grasp for the user - Allows you to scroll * one line at a time, * one page at a time, * arbitrary distances * immediately to either end of a document - Gives you an immediate visual indication of the size of a document. - Has controls large enough that it's easy to work with Anything that can't meet those criteria is going to be a step backwards, and is going to meet some heavy resistance from users I'm afraid. Ross On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 8:42 AM, foss[ilized] wrote: > On 5/15/09, Fernando wrote: >> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 4:48 AM, foss[ilized] >> wrote: >>> Just a thought: one of the ugliest graphical items I see on almost all >>> of today's desktop environments is the scrollbar. >>> >>> I think it's time to get rid of scrollbars. With the push toward >>> "touch" computing, the scrollbar becomes a hindrance rather than an >>> aid to navigation. Users with large, wide or "clumsy" fingers are at a >>> disadvantage when trying to click, press or drag a scrollbar to pan >>> (move) a window up, down, left or right. >> >> The problem is not scrollbars... What you are searching for is an >> easier way to scroll, I don't see why scrollbars have to be removed >> for getting that. > > Well, the problem for me is the scrollbars as a navigation tool. As an > indicator, maybe it has its uses. However, there are alternatives. > Look no further than the typical role-playing game. Instead of scrollbars > they have maps, which may or may not work as navigation tools. > > The Gimp implements this mini-map concept when dealing with images > or views too large to fit in the screen. Of course on a small screen, such > a mini-map will be tinier than mini and will be just as difficult to use as a > scrollbar. > > For an approximation of my idea of scrollbar-less navigation, take a look at > (warning: fancy Javascript!) the home page of Sabayon Linux > http://www.sabayonlinux.org/.) Of course, it may be argued that the > screenshot bar is itself a giant scrollbar. My idea is to have the navigation > surface large enough for "fat" fingers > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > From kirillrdy@gmail.com Tue May 19 11:42:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78BD1750108 for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 11:42:23 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.567 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.567 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8, TW_BG=0.077, TW_JH=0.077, TW_KY=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:50:0:60:M1430,S,T,N,W9:.:?:?] (up: 7655 hrs), (link: (Google 2)), [74.125.44.29] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eNx4lW1wYgr8 for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 11:42:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from yx-out-2324.google.com (yx-out-2324.google.com [74.125.44.29]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95B46750076 for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 11:42:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 8so1990679yxm.63 for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 04:42:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=eSjXtDQs6rjzlyttU0h9kfbfw7yarbBySIOCtdizRTo=; b=cOjYgsBsG9Ks1R+Pf6aHe4hZzzHRurcPpKepc+pT+ZA0lOa42m9GsYdhTYyLzQtOZM /BLQiUkm95bCd4Q9Sw1EcFIUf93CqnMuevfN2Z7mPUyfDVRwEp69oFCYaOzATw7TUS3T hTMLhZGK2NDcjPQ2dkaSnacSyoNKPMFRQn4+o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; b=w4EKcDaxFfX551QcTs1mUOHDjUNbwUJVOfXeubLtuFGFPLnGY9Z4OnTnjQsaAboAFN BS6QNTDExZ/TJiGceJcEiXr+LMByFmpJW3tnoFaYIDnxmgHrxF+07ai+EV//P3/0GVFl 5DANAD1eZjx1qS857KKzeR7idEhZST+4j9TdA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.209.4 with SMTP id h4mr6252466ang.89.1242733326227; Tue, 19 May 2009 04:42:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1242677863.15908.16.camel@milan> References: <89b403830905180308n3a19fa88j591fc7c3c12a948@mail.gmail.com> <1242677863.15908.16.camel@milan> From: Kirill Radzikhovskyy Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:41:46 +1000 Message-ID: <89b403830905190441m46ec9371heb35f6cf9a1e2b21@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: gnome-shell doesnt build To: Milan Bouchet-Valat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636af024b75dcfc046a4266ea Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 11:42:23 -0000 --001636af024b75dcfc046a4266ea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, i've built using jhbuild and its fine, what doesnt work now, is draggin windows to other workspaces, like it rarely works, :-( 2009/5/19 Milan Bouchet-Valat > Le lundi 18 mai 2009 =E0 20:08 +1000, Kirill Radzikhovskyy a =E9crit : > > Starting 10afe4619505d159f6639e70a346902082671ff1 commit gnome-shell > > no longer builds, > > i suspect it depends on dev version of clutter-cairo > > > > (metacity:27928): metacity-CRITICAL **: failed to load plugins > > Invalid GType: 'big_box_get_type' > > failed to dump: Failed to find symbol 'big_box_get_type' > > Command '['metacity', > > '--mutter-plugins=3D/home/kirillvr/Desktop/gnome-shell2/src/ > libgnome-shell.la', > '--introspect-dump=3D/tmp/tmp-introspect7c_5R9/types.txt,/tmp/tmp-introsp= ect7c_5R9/dump.xml']' > returned non-zero exit status 1 > > > > > > Suggestions ? > I believe I've seen this lately. Just try, as you suggest, to update the > whole dependencies using 'jhbuild build -ac gnome-shell'. > > > --=20 Everything is made from a Dream - /-Sakurai Kazutoshi-/ "To iterate is human, to recurse, divine." -- Robert Heller "To recurse is human, to box a continuation into an object and send it across a network is divine. " -- Andy Kitchen Sent from Melbourne, Vic, Australia Ted Turner - "Sports is like a war without the killing." --001636af024b75dcfc046a4266ea Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,
i've built using jhbuild and its fine,

what doesnt work n= ow, is draggin windows to other workspaces,
like it rarely works, :-(


2009/5/19 Milan Bouchet-Valat <nalimilan@club.fr= >
Le lundi 18 mai 2= 009 =E0 20:08 +1000, Kirill Radzikhovskyy a =E9crit :
> Starting 10afe4619505d159f6639e70a346902082671ff1 co= mmit gnome-shell
> no longer builds,
> i suspect it depends on dev version of clutter-cairo
>
> (metacity:27928): metacity-CRITICAL **: failed to load plugins
> Invalid GType: 'big_box_get_type'
> failed to dump: Failed to find symbol 'big_box_get_type'
> Command '['metacity',
> '--mutter-plugins=3D/home/kirillvr/Desktop/gnome-shell2/src/libgnome-shell.la'= , '--introspect-dump=3D/tmp/tmp-introspect7c_5R9/types.txt,/tmp/tmp-int= rospect7c_5R9/dump.xml']' returned non-zero exit status 1
>
>
> Suggestions ?
I believe I've seen this lately. Just try, as you suggest, to upd= ate the
whole dependencies using 'jhbuild build -ac gnome-shell'.





--
Everything is made from= a Dream - /-Sakurai Kazutoshi-/

"To iterate is human, to recur= se, divine."
-- Robert Heller

"To recurse is human, to = box a continuation into an object and send it across a network is divine. &= quot;
-- Andy Kitchen

Sent from Melbourne, Vic, Australia
Ted Turner =A0- "Sports is like a war without the killing." --001636af024b75dcfc046a4266ea-- From Calum.Benson@Sun.COM Tue May 19 15:14:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B54C75009E for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 15:14:22 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.312 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.312 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=2.287, BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_Unix=-1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Solaris 10 (beta), (distance 23, link: ethernet/modem), [192.18.6.24] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sheCfrJh5ENB for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 15:14:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com (gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com [192.18.6.24]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 263A77500C8 for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 15:14:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fe-emea-09.sun.com (gmp-eb-lb-2-fe2.eu.sun.com [192.18.6.11]) by gmp-eb-inf-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n4JFE2u3017533 for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 15:14:04 GMT MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-emea-09.sun.com by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KJW00G00CJ5Z000@fe-emea-09.sun.com> for gnome-shell-list@gnome.org; Tue, 19 May 2009 16:14:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from msfc-226-2.Ireland.Sun.COM ([unknown] [129.156.226.71]) by fe-emea-09.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KJW003L6CZ28L10@fe-emea-09.sun.com> for gnome-shell-list@gnome.org; Tue, 19 May 2009 16:13:50 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:13:49 +0100 From: Calum Benson Subject: Re: Get rid of the scrollbars In-reply-to: <7b160d240905150259y1c38e0f5ga843970a646af9fb@mail.gmail.com> Sender: Calum.Benson@Sun.COM To: gnome-shell-list Message-id: <11B6B140-EDA5-4593-842F-7F435AEE3C56@sun.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) References: <2b0573450905131948x1e613ac9mb21a1bb8525a6b70@mail.gmail.com> <8614ECE2-ECDD-44D4-A3D9-CD5F968D56C3@redhat.com> <1242380534.5179.1139.camel@snowball> <7b160d240905150259y1c38e0f5ga843970a646af9fb@mail.gmail.com> X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 15:14:22 -0000 On 15 May 2009, at 10:59, Ross Smith wrote: > The main change to me is that it's removing the page up/down feature > that's hardly ever used Show me your data :) I use it all the time. Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:calum.benson@sun.com OpenSolaris Desktop Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems From myxiplx@googlemail.com Tue May 19 15:17:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65FF67500C8 for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 15:17:59 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 5300 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZsxK8V4rQAuW for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 15:17:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC61B75009E for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 15:17:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so4508611ewy.15 for ; Tue, 19 May 2009 08:17:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=EUu/J45MikXbDexZuN4GpvISjES1Lw0pOhcQQ4+mf+E=; b=IxW/qQY4GzLUh4mXz9HMwcnRaUbHfn5hMsoyfzKroMxcF6dWIqDY/J4haIaE3OC9Is LlW04yqMXN2qxABclUywJv8qpEa2UOkAfC59x7H/pBPRB2Vh+Meg8G7f2gRCylooTYsT hdGPb4MmVJm0DyWBENEAOLVgt2x5P/tHxrtt0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=sDvD8W7164j0KzHDCfFlY2wp4Yqz37I/Tedv5bfdFrzTxm9vktmv+pdkcerDHiUHih jnZK5P+UliphsJRx1NiE2JyFXw7TtoqOIPIvfRKvAl1SppSorq8XseWG0sKTpXFWjfLo ZcnlbEmqCy+ZWV8NHhxCzIhGmXUz4t2qB4BWY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.11.138 with SMTP id 10mr41881wex.51.1242746259090; Tue, 19 May 2009 08:17:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <11B6B140-EDA5-4593-842F-7F435AEE3C56@sun.com> References: <2b0573450905131948x1e613ac9mb21a1bb8525a6b70@mail.gmail.com> <8614ECE2-ECDD-44D4-A3D9-CD5F968D56C3@redhat.com> <1242380534.5179.1139.camel@snowball> <7b160d240905150259y1c38e0f5ga843970a646af9fb@mail.gmail.com> <11B6B140-EDA5-4593-842F-7F435AEE3C56@sun.com> From: Ross Smith Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 16:17:19 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905190817r131d0954v2a410f66f12b39e7@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Get rid of the scrollbars To: Calum Benson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 15:17:59 -0000 On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Calum Benson wrote: > > On 15 May 2009, at 10:59, Ross Smith wrote: > >> The main change to me is that it's removing the page up/down feature >> that's hardly ever used > > Show me your data :) =A0I use it all the time. Curses, foiled again! Although in my defense, I did later come to my senses and suggest this: "could you add that behaviour without breaking anything existing? - Single click in that area does page up/down as normal - Click and drag now scrolls" :-p > > Cheeri, > Calum. > > -- > CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer =A0 =A0 =A0 Sun Microsystems Ireland > mailto:calum.benson@sun.com =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0OpenSolaris Desktop Te= am > http://blogs.sun.com/calum =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 +353 1 819 9771 > > Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > From ankere@gmail.com Wed May 20 09:22:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD8C0750076; Wed, 20 May 2009 09:22:46 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 7615 hrs), (distance 15, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.218.159] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1+ifsEoNIqHn; Wed, 20 May 2009 09:22:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-bw0-f159.google.com (mail-bw0-f159.google.com [209.85.218.159]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ECB9750075; Wed, 20 May 2009 09:22:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so269899bwz.15 for ; Wed, 20 May 2009 02:22:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:to:content-type :date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9MLaRDSw7OK7EWausWVUp2RIgdFEWsny/Qo2YXKfiAk=; b=dv7FTxWuhDQLAZi25PHL4TjxP0HP+WBSLzq+KE7hDfcq0QBHWt72pzJtTjKuf+VwNj PR7Dw+ak+BeeOEgQJUUdvA1h79qEdHcRmuqtOhPYX+N8DBVovBbAojjO2NKDOw86NoVu lVIf/KfbNtsJDKH41CBEr7oA4h44GN+LXPxj8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:to:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version:x-mailer :content-transfer-encoding; b=gQ78CRJOu1vcoJZN0YqiYr4Roy0c9Kd9gK9P/0XPr8uAzC510OwjLcevQ/8DYARV4p HmJri4lETNXBCKf28cQXs8AxSClwUEr6TK06bEEOYhOoSZxLwj0DUK3j/861of5n7Jdz VrMwjFipSt8IAHfoV2GYPPKZpp/g8rmf280OY= Received: by 10.204.123.136 with SMTP id p8mr1057924bkr.21.1242811348555; Wed, 20 May 2009 02:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?78.90.104.233? ([78.90.104.233]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c28sm1418448fka.2.2009.05.20.02.22.27 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 20 May 2009 02:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Something Interesting From: Anton Kerezov To: Gnome Usability , Gnome Shell list , Gnome Themes Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:22:26 +0300 Message-Id: <1242811346.5369.1.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 09:22:47 -0000 I think that this is very interesting for everybody participating in the mailing lists: http://anotherubuntu.blogspot.com/2009/05/moblin-v2-user-interface-is-very.html Anton From owtaylor@gmail.com Fri May 22 19:30:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE6A75000A for ; Fri, 22 May 2009 19:30:45 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 4969 hrs), (distance 14, link: (Google 2)), [74.125.46.29] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4PU--DTG0x5D for ; Fri, 22 May 2009 19:30:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.29]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0359575080A for ; Fri, 22 May 2009 19:30:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so978672ywj.63 for ; Fri, 22 May 2009 12:30:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=c3gTpy78GwF8I7BPvtRMgqLiWH1yzbL4WHvkkse/6+M=; b=K2fHr3Rj6Gf0Z2chxWdm7y1Pj9NzYsX//pPqZWloc/ccYKgmX6qcRVpxfALofMMGL+ rh3I8QVy6opB+5WhQodJBX/2yObL0Vm6dBP6Oqp7IkK2T6fs3hxNI+n4EPKPx4C2biHM o0ZV9X6wokpE56kC074XBrPT3cOjNP+M0o/Ug= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=n/Jimu1k6Hz8aO3qVk8biM2rgnkyNjJeCdtFPcMlC0BQkTv/bf5f/IPNNU56OhHN/P leA/V+gN1D/7EFRRiGICyP6xx55TuNWEbZKbgAc59P72mU36DGgVqwvU9+yntcztrqR7 g7QnklJuZap1Kuz0CuG79N0djD//tCA3o5rJQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owtaylor@gmail.com Received: by 10.151.135.4 with SMTP id m4mr8349941ybn.55.1243020626675; Fri, 22 May 2009 12:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 15:30:26 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9a0fb11d6ec767e5 Message-ID: Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 From: Owen Taylor To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org, jeremy.perry@redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 19:30:45 -0000 So, we were going over the mockups some more in detail yesterday; hopefully we'll get started on some implementation soon. One of the things we were discussing was Jon's concern that there really wasn't a good connection between the search entry and the search results. The thought popped into my head to put the search entry right on the background, as shown in: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/SearchToTheRight (I'll avoid the ASCII art after Jon's misadventure.) I think that location has some definite advantages for the interaction with the results and more panes. On the other hand, the search entry may look odd and out of place there. In the mockup I did, I also explored a bit some other possibilities for the search results. There's a lot of text and controls flying around in the AppBrowsingAlternative02 version - it feels like something you would use only when you've given up all hope of finding a document by some other means. :-) So maybe maybe the first level of search can be something more lightweight, good for instant visual recognition, easy to click on? Then if you drilled down into a particular type of result, it could unify with the other path of first going to the Documents more pane, then searching. - Owen From myxiplx@googlemail.com Fri May 22 19:58:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1395B75007E for ; Fri, 22 May 2009 19:58:29 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (up: 6067 hrs), (distance 16, link: ethernet/modem), [209.85.219.161] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lo8mPeVfJv7j for ; Fri, 22 May 2009 19:58:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail-ew0-f161.google.com (mail-ew0-f161.google.com [209.85.219.161]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 780CD750829 for ; Fri, 22 May 2009 19:58:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1962702ewy.15 for ; Fri, 22 May 2009 12:58:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mWLDj3hZ8gvKcfImHXkvf1ScRLRqCDDFeZqsCzDzyN8=; b=K6fi3ILckNrSOz9lQMFnCUjki4ATREPh0jz5DNEIbs/rKwsLMRNIio0qBnBgrLYfXl uJQdrqPXYXZh2rTomZeKwmgReY5onqWHsLIE5zc1hK4p/cUAli2FYG57zaXGpWltOVjN /MuBtJfGbpVzq6LkiY0Xq1uCcG17KvHThKp3g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=vrx8gdoBKJdrWJXJBJI92Xv77ZY/fPLm3aIADTQRZMAimU72R55isyVsRde7P5rsOc 5XbcSCmHqkB+CSikgyc/eHrpXcMET4mZit7oEYZn6IWhU1M2w+zbhPD9gEcN7j4Rzevn qrycs0QRTjKfHytkb7WjUoa2M8fTmWcxWOiC8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.9.81 with SMTP id 59mr816369wes.181.1243022287114; Fri, 22 May 2009 12:58:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Ross Smith Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 20:57:47 +0100 Message-ID: <7b160d240905221257lea88345o818a6f069b8240ec@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 To: Owen Taylor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 19:58:29 -0000 Well, I have to say I like the idea of search moving, but while I *love* the 'more' view of AppBrowsing #2, I'm not that keen on Jeremy's program list. ... so here's my take on things. :-) http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/SearchToTheRight2 Some of this seems to tie in well with Owen's thoughts on search being good for instant recognition initially, and unifying with the detail later on: Myx On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Owen Taylor wrote: > So, we were going over the mockups some more in detail yesterday; > hopefully we'll get started on some implementation soon. One of the > things we were discussing was Jon's concern that there really wasn't a > good connection between the search entry and the search results. The > thought popped into my head to put the search entry right on the > background, as shown in: > > =A0http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/DesignerPlayground/SearchToTheRight > > (I'll avoid the ASCII art after Jon's misadventure.) I think that > location has some definite advantages for the interaction with the > results and more panes. On the other hand, the search entry may look > odd and out of place there. > > In the mockup I did, I also explored a bit some other possibilities > for the search results. There's a lot of text and controls flying > around in the AppBrowsingAlternative02 version - =A0it feels like > something you would use only when you've given up all hope of finding > a document by some other means. :-) So maybe maybe the first level of > search can be something more lightweight, good for instant visual > recognition, easy to click on? > > Then if you drilled down into a particular type of result, it could > unify with the other path of first going to the Documents more pane, > then searching. > > - Owen > _______________________________________________ > gnome-shell-list mailing list > gnome-shell-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list > From kirillrdy@gmail.com Sat May 23 00:57:47 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE7DF750086 for ; Sat, 23 May 2009 00:57:47 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.798 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:50:0:60:M1430,S,T,N,W9:.:?:?] (up: 8507 hrs), (link: (Google 2)), [74.125.44.30] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zfpjzrL4t1yx for ; Sat, 23 May 2009 00:57:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from yx-out-2324.google.com (yx-out-2324.google.com [74.125.44.30]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34AAB7500E5 for ; Sat, 23 May 2009 00:57:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 8so1049657yxm.63 for ; Fri, 22 May 2009 17:57:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type; bh=PFjYd1v3q+fhCoY6PU5bs2j5L+Y9v3IZHvO2PrQUNaA=; b=ZSBwpZshOEujRNHoaDHyWopt77C6HjB2qCS1E3kQ+dtHyStN3wfrsKs9GLGssYahAc Ww1tgfMCrV53O4GpoGKgztXAMyPJEKH3M9Y3E6MuAXp32i4fDVNeoXY+nCYWVhN7S4qy SNLG/IYrABYV9UU1zVK8Obv4uT/w8FjN3aLQg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; b=MfoaNE8CG7Iem96fJmNJTP1nDUk6uxbe9NSg7/NV/Xn5MucsB++Py9sngklh9OWLgh H+zYle7HZoc+xsvvfIMh6HCJMlNqlmvwoNTkuDp1Li959fhZmbREtZJkKrXei6tRNOzm YJlnPIt65HOzYLLgpUPTXktFRMBFOIEZWsmN8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.166.10 with SMTP id o10mr8219231ane.126.1243040247685; Fri, 22 May 2009 17:57:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirill Radzikhovskyy Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 10:57:07 +1000 Message-ID: <89b403830905221757i378b606et35581edc90398b06@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Cant drag windows to workspace To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6434aea67bf7c046a89dc33 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 00:57:48 -0000 --0016e6434aea67bf7c046a89dc33 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After latest rebuild, ( introduction of sidebar) I am unable to drag applictaions (windows), icons from application list, into first row workspace. If I have two workspaces, I cant drag at all, when i create 4, i can drag from first row into second row, but not back, I am not sure if its gnome-shell or is it clutter upgrade that caused it ? Perhaps I will try to checkout earlier commits, trying to find where did it stop working, -- Everything is made from a Dream - /-Sakurai Kazutoshi-/ "To iterate is human, to recurse, divine." -- Robert Heller "To recurse is human, to box a continuation into an object and send it across a network is divine. " -- Andy Kitchen Mike Ditka - "If God had wanted man to play soccer, he wouldn't have given us arms." --0016e6434aea67bf7c046a89dc33 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable After latest rebuild, ( introduction of sidebar) I am unable to drag applic= taions (windows), icons from application list, into first row workspace.If I have two workspaces, I cant drag at all,
when i create 4, i can dr= ag from first row into second row, but not back,

I am not sure if its gnome-shell or is it clutter upgrade that caused i= t ?

Perhaps I will try to checkout earlier commits, trying to find w= here did it stop working,




--
Everythin= g is made from a Dream - /-Sakurai Kazutoshi-/

"To iterate is human, to recurse, divine."
-- Robert Helle= r

"To recurse is human, to box a continuation into an object an= d send it across a network is divine. "
-- Andy Kitchen


Mike Ditka =A0- "If God had wanted man to play = soccer, he wouldn't have given us arms." --0016e6434aea67bf7c046a89dc33-- From marinaz@redhat.com Sat May 23 01:38:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83298750086 for ; Sat, 23 May 2009 01:38:18 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) (NAT!) (up: 1373 hrs), (distance 11, link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [66.187.233.31] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nKjmYwYwcJsa for ; Sat, 23 May 2009 01:38:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F40750077 for ; Sat, 23 May 2009 01:38:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n4N1bxpF031761; Fri, 22 May 2009 21:37:59 -0400 Received: from mail03.corp.redhat.com (zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.5.47]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n4N1bw1g032176; Fri, 22 May 2009 21:37:58 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 21:37:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Marina Zhurakhinskaya To: Kirill Radzikhovskyy Message-ID: <285634945.1750751243042678099.JavaMail.root@zmail07.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <89b403830905221757i378b606et35581edc90398b06@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Cant drag windows to workspace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.5.5.72] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 172.16.52.254 Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 01:38:18 -0000 Hi! This is a known problem. It's quite possible that a clutter upgrade has caused it. I also know that the gnome-shell checkout as of May 14 had it working fine, so if you try a revision from that time and it is still not working, it must be a clutter problem. Please feel free to file a bug about it and add your findings there. Thanks, Marina ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirill Radzikhovskyy" To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 8:57:07 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Cant drag windows to workspace After latest rebuild, ( introduction of sidebar) I am unable to drag applictaions (windows), icons from application list, into first row workspace. If I have two workspaces, I cant drag at all, when i create 4, i can drag from first row into second row, but not back, I am not sure if its gnome-shell or is it clutter upgrade that caused it ? Perhaps I will try to checkout earlier commits, trying to find where did it stop working, -- Everything is made from a Dream - /-Sakurai Kazutoshi-/ "To iterate is human, to recurse, divine." -- Robert Heller "To recurse is human, to box a continuation into an object and send it across a network is divine. " -- Andy Kitchen Mike Ditka - "If God had wanted man to play soccer, he wouldn't have given us arms." _______________________________________________ gnome-shell-list mailing list gnome-shell-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list From nalimilan@club.fr Sat May 23 09:41:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2811675017E for ; Sat, 23 May 2009 09:41:01 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.799 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:44:1:60:M1380, S, T, N, W8:.:?:?] (NAT!) (up: 7848 hrs), (link: GPRS, T1, FreeS/WAN), [93.17.128.3] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aP3KBtXGCFVb for ; Sat, 23 May 2009 09:40:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from smtp21.services.sfr.fr (smtp21.services.sfr.fr [93.17.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B1977508CA for ; Sat, 23 May 2009 09:40:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from filter.sfr.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by msfrf2112.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 5611770000AF; Sat, 23 May 2009 11:40:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (201.78.92-79.rev.gaoland.net [79.92.78.201]) by msfrf2112.sfr.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D5535700009C; Sat, 23 May 2009 11:40:42 +0200 (CEST) X-SFR-UUID: 20090523094042873.D5535700009C@msfrf2112.sfr.fr Subject: Re: New mockups for shell - round 2 From: Milan Bouchet-Valat To: Owen Taylor In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 11:40:39 +0200 Message-Id: <1243071639.10405.22.camel@milan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 09:41:01 -0000 Le vendredi 22 mai 2009 à 15:30 -0400, Owen Taylor a écrit : > So, we were going over the mockups some more in detail yesterday; > hopefully we'll get started on some implementation soon. One of the > things we were discussing was Jon's concern that there really wasn't a > good connection between the search entry and the search results. While I'm slightly more in favor of your latest proposal, one important advantage of putting the search entry in the top panel is that you could click in it, type your keyword and hit Enter, and you'd be directly driven to the results in the overlay. Else, you'd need to hit the Activities button before that. And a search entry efficient like that could be later extended to act as GNOME Do. Not sure that's really essential though - and Alt+F2 could act the same. OTOH, putting the entry there would prevent us to include the breadcrumbs idea from Sander. So we may decide on it before making the choice. An idea that just occurred to me: the search as in the mockups is a more exhaustive one, and may take some time (in seconds). Maybe we could still perform the search with the items on the left (recent apps and docs, places, devices) at the same time: I've found this feature really efficient, notably when you have too much recent docs for the basic display. So what we could do is: search-as-you-type for the left pane, and search-on-activate for the one on the right - this way you don't need to wake up Tracker every time. From owtaylor@gmail.com Sat May 23 14:51:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 302E4750006 for ; Sat, 23 May 2009 14:51:14 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) (firewall!) (up: 5162 hrs), (distance 14, link: (Google 2)), [74.125.46.30] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VXew+Mewn7jy for ; Sat, 23 May 2009 14:51:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.30]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48E6B75000A for ; Sat, 23 May 2009 14:50:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 3so1159257ywj.63 for ; Sat, 23 May 2009 07:50:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=F0Zqe1qlqRwyR1eKXR4WE2nAt76GADAtyX68DEfwYVA=; b=jsv3+hMY2h4iJvOC0XNYIbGeCrphZcBc1RlWP0z87e5RFWKxXtA8E9Xu/bwkOsDFJ1 caxX5oVeWe9JwUWbq/DFl0yTmLypRbiVIOtMl4f7Xg7TYZbuJy4jggvf3HVQ9DFAP1XP TwJpuIltAvmwt6gAFzCcY0k5bo6ANk1wIDgqw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=LCvG3soxe3JjwSQ862iii6/6eMW9cdPi//XDM1YEHk35Qnedhp1aYWNlo0Qs0JIeFq HWHhqXLQ2JQoGks6e1QaoT/0+sg8/2FXEXViblmLncTp6e2l8Nhwsr7mRjlujhRPTG5d ZvjyT7Ikgg0ZzGZwcGcTI9uWWSVMlpPGymrTo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owtaylor@gmail.com Received: by 10.150.136.15 with SMTP id j15mr9938942ybd.257.1243090255886; Sat, 23 May 2009 07:50:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 10:50:55 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: dbc7c880e5ad2e20 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Cant drag windows to workspace From: Owen Taylor To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 14:51:14 -0000 This turned out to be a gnome-shell bug inadvertently introduced with the sidebar code. Fixed by: http://git.gnome.org/cgit/gnome-shell/commit/?id=0c7b983b107d9e32c3ab6f77660117f64219afec - Owen From kirillrdy@gmail.com Mon May 25 10:13:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19C507503E5 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 10:13:03 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.798 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:50:0:60:M1430,S,T,N,W9:.:?:?] (up: 9080 hrs), (link: (Google 2)), [74.125.44.29] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ftF4ZGD83+OT for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 10:12:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from yx-out-2324.google.com (yx-out-2324.google.com [74.125.44.29]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C173875012B for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 10:12:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 8so1508367yxm.63 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 03:12:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type; bh=n38GhUbYvlW1asIL04Egyd9VePh0xKTtNyV1+qztZgk=; b=jgVy9PqJ6w2vGviFj3uOKFKdIogxoqgMSIDVpd8XVlUQCYfWOi3X14Cbcy/LfsQSI8 ehzItgV0k1gWgEXtyN+8l4yLb+S4CsAI5DCHaMjdEI3Ica052E1qtZKfMwLoG7oqliGh JD53BrcoxHQ9Jey5QDscM7TbEihtEUwJRoxBI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; b=tYQ3LshNaV3/4Yp/dCaRCCNQW/Mv8nnduflqu1kxOX/BHH4QfRu7CmTpUTAShHjq3A QPfcB64mlZ2kn/+C6h4cbcXGeN6FMJM0jDj0xWGMHDJT5Z+YeQJ6gjgAK3cQ46mc0FjS BnSsBgx75TdfQsinLbM9i1WgZ3EGdWaP9OtH8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.140.15 with SMTP id n15mr12127269and.83.1243246367265; Mon, 25 May 2009 03:12:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirill Radzikhovskyy Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 20:12:27 +1000 Message-ID: <89b403830905250312r15e3f16dy88b435420de9f734@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Hamster crashes mutter To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64355de16d3c0046ab9da63 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 10:13:03 -0000 --0016e64355de16d3c0046ab9da63 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When i try to enter new activity in hamster it crashes and takes down mutter, Bug in window manager: Set a type atom for 0x20000a4 (Hamster) that wasn't handled in recalc_window_type I assume this is known and just waits to be fixed. cheers, Kirill R -- Everything is made from a Dream - /-Sakurai Kazutoshi-/ "To iterate is human, to recurse, divine." -- Robert Heller "To recurse is human, to box a continuation into an object and send it across a network is divine. " -- Andy Kitchen --0016e64355de16d3c0046ab9da63 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When i try to enter new activity in hamster it crashes and takes down mutte= r,

Bug in window manager: Set a type atom for 0x20000a4 (Hamster) th= at wasn't handled in recalc_window_type

I assume this is known a= nd just waits to be fixed.

cheers,
Kirill R

--
Everything is made from= a Dream - /-Sakurai Kazutoshi-/

"To iterate is human, to recur= se, divine."
-- Robert Heller

"To recurse is human, to = box a continuation into an object and send it across a network is divine. &= quot;
-- Andy Kitchen


--0016e64355de16d3c0046ab9da63-- From tf@linux.intel.com Tue May 26 07:54:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D6357500C1 for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 07:54:21 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.722 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.722 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, TW_KY=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [16384:48:1:48:M1460,S,E:P:?:?], (link: ethernet/modem), [143.182.124.36] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w2PXefJmMR1G for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 07:54:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from azsmga102.ch.intel.com (mga12.intel.com [143.182.124.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0997500C6 for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 07:54:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from azsmga001.ch.intel.com ([10.2.17.19]) by azsmga102.ch.intel.com with ESMTP; 26 May 2009 00:54:03 -0700 X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.41,249,1241420400"; d="scan'208";a="146839117" Received: from unknown (HELO [10.254.181.242]) ([10.254.181.242]) by azsmga001.ch.intel.com with ESMTP; 26 May 2009 00:53:41 -0700 Message-ID: <4A1BA01B.5090902@linux.intel.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 08:54:03 +0100 From: Tomas Frydrych User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kirill Radzikhovskyy Subject: Re: Hamster crashes mutter References: <89b403830905250312r15e3f16dy88b435420de9f734@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <89b403830905250312r15e3f16dy88b435420de9f734@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 07:54:21 -0000 Kirill Radzikhovskyy wrote: > When i try to enter new activity in hamster it crashes and takes down > mutter, > > Bug in window manager: Set a type atom for 0x20000a4 (Hamster) that > wasn't handled in recalc_window_type To be precise, Mutter does not crash, it aborts. I probably happens because a window type that Mutter expects to be used only for override-redirect windows is being set for a normal window; this is indeed a bug, as the EWMH only says that those properties are *typically* used for OR windows. Fixing this will need care to ensure we do not break handling of OR windows elsewhere in the codebase. Could you please file a bug in the bugzilla ? (The meta_bug() macro probably should not call abort() in production builds, but that's a separate issue). Tomas From kirillrdy@gmail.com Tue May 26 09:46:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC8FC75048E for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 09:46:10 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.721 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, L_P0F_UNKN=0.8, TW_KY=0.077] X-Amavis-OS-Fingerprint: UNKNOWN [S4:50:0:60:M1430,S,T,N,W9:.:?:?] (up: 9315 hrs), (link: (Google 2)), [74.125.44.28] Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZbCy7YPKTFmd for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 09:46:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from yx-out-2324.google.com (yx-out-2324.google.com [74.125.44.28]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 912427501CA for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 09:45:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 8so1774658yxm.63 for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 02:45:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=9KNLQzEeuVIIKUnD9hMWK8/dqEMr2L3it4IlHIAU2bg=; b=OjuM9WkJ1p9FLfO0BaJaASM3izRAgGYfHJp158sFleMUsz+AzoR2eLvWe0KffLwQ+y XrtBZROS/x1xj7jf3M8t5rcmWcwSCz54KhG1QWJpEtq7YTRBw108es5OO9jghEGG9NIF PDtOykNdHtp5wU5fqmirp3AY0Vq2exwUssiyE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=Lbkk0psbYT4K+1h7y4S06lM/83lktjq7c2iZbEBdvrQc8DpHg7eaKFtkcAVVY6M13c CC3ndtHFqTuFlP/UDwCziuby4dpxvu5n5lDGrPiAUE0YKmvTzQYz+6Os5zhsmJtxX2Gn M0rQ2C944f07J/i7IEaQ+nVBQZBfbAJRdOpqA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.152.12 with SMTP id z12mr14271697and.96.1243331152121; Tue, 26 May 2009 02:45:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A1BA01B.5090902@linux.intel.com> References: <89b403830905250312r15e3f16dy88b435420de9f734@mail.gmail.com> <4A1BA01B.5090902@linux.intel.com> From: Kirill Radzikhovskyy Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:45:32 +1000 Message-ID: <89b403830905260245g68fdf4f1s5f796c96b4b8134a@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Hamster crashes mutter To: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e645b83ca90f82046acd9796 X-BeenThere: gnome-shell-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.10 Precedence: list List-Id: Next generation GNOME desktop shell List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 09:46:11 -0000 --0016e645b83ca90f82046acd9796 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Filed a bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=583870 2009/5/26 Tomas Frydrych > Kirill Radzikhovskyy wrote: > > When i try to enter new activity in hamster it crashes and takes down > > mutter, > > > > Bug in window manager: Set a type atom for 0x20000a4 (Hamster) that > > wasn't handled in recalc_window_type > > To be precise, Mutter does not crash, it aborts. I probably happens > because a window type that Mutter expects to be used only for > override-redirect windows is being set for a normal window; this is > indeed a bug, as the EWMH only says that those properties are > *typically* used for OR windows. Fixing this will need care to ensure we > do not break handling of OR windows elsewhere in the codebase. > > Could you please file a bug in the bugzilla ? > > (The meta_bug() macro probably should not call abort() in production > builds, but that's a separate issue). > > Tomas > > -- Everything is made from a Dream - /-Sakurai Kazutoshi-/ "To iterate is human, to recurse, divine." -- Robert Heller "To recurse is human, to box a continuation into an object and send it across a network is divine. " -- Andy Kitchen Sent from Melbourne, Vic, Australia Jonathan Swift - "May you live every day of your life." --0016e645b83ca90f82046acd9796 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Filed a bug = http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D583870

2009/5/26 Tomas Frydrych <tf@linux.intel.com>
Kirill Radzikhovskyy wrote:
> When i try to enter new activity in hamster it crashes and takes down<= br> > mutter,
>
> Bug in window manager: Set a type atom for 0x20000a4 (Hamster) that > wasn't handled in recalc_window_type

To be precise, Mutter does not crash, it aborts. I probably happens because a window type that Mutter expects to be used only for
override-redirect windows is being set for a normal window; this is
indeed a bug, as the EWMH only says that those properties are
*typically* used for OR windows. Fixing this will need care to ensure we do not break handling of OR windows elsewhere in the codebase.

Could you please file a bug in the bugzilla ?

(The meta_bug() macro probably should not call abort() in production
builds, but that's a separate issue).

Tomas




--
Everything is ma= de from a Dream - /-Sakurai Kazutoshi-/

"To iterate is human, t= o recurse, divine."
-- Robert Heller

"To recurse is hum= an, to box a continuation into an object and send it across a network is di= vine. "
-- Andy Kitchen

Sent from Melbourne, Vic, Australia
Jonathan Swift =A0- "May you live every day of your life.&qu= ot; --0016e645b83ca90f82046acd9796--