From tommy.he at linux.com Sun May 2 09:12:35 2010 From: tommy.he at linux.com (Tommy He) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 10:12:35 +0100 Subject: [Shotwell] translation updates for 0.5 In-Reply-To: References: <4BDA0111.3070707@yorba.org> Message-ID: Hello Adam, Two translators have started the translations of Traditional Chinese. Their first zh_TW.po file was submitted to Transifex yesterday. Regards, Tommy He On 30 April 2010 15:43, Tommy He wrote: > Adam, > > I will try my best to see if someone would like to add Traditional Chinese > in these weeks. > > Regards, > > > On 29 April 2010 22:58, Adam Dingle wrote: > >> Matthias, >> >> that's a good idea. We've received several new or greatly expanded >> translations since 0.5 shipped, including Russian, Ukranian, Greek and >> Finnish. We'll plan to issue a 0.5.2 release in the next week or two >> including these translations (and perhaps any others that arrive in the >> meantime). >> >> adam >> >> Matthias Clasen wrote: >> > Hey, I have gotten at least one bug report in Fedora >> > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=583847 asking about >> > translation updates (for Russian). I note that the 0.5 release that we >> > have in F13 _does_ have Russian translation, but the .po file is >> > largely empty, while trunk seems to have pretty complete translations. >> > I don't know about the amount of string changes between 0.5 and trunk, >> > and I wonder if it would be possible to merge the translations from >> > trunk into 0.5 and do a 0.5.2 release that largely focuses on >> > translation updates ? I'm sure it would be well-received in Fedora 13. >> > >> > Keep up the great work, >> > >> > Matthias >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Shotwell mailing list >> > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org >> > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Shotwell mailing list >> Shotwell at lists.yorba.org >> http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell >> > > > > -- > Take a Deep Breath out of Windows > -- Take a Deep Breath out of Windows From bengt.thuree at gmail.com Mon May 3 14:25:49 2010 From: bengt.thuree at gmail.com (Bengt Thuree) Date: Tue, 04 May 2010 00:25:49 +1000 Subject: [Shotwell] Imported 37,000 photos... Looking great Message-ID: <1272896749.9501.5.camel@leo.thuree.com> Hi I decided to try to import my photo library and it I must say Shotwell looks great, and very quick response. I am really looking forward to being able to start using it for real :) But can not start using it until it can read the embedded EXIF/IPTC/XMP tags Not sure what the below error messages means though. The 4 listed images have unique file name for instance. Do not know which photos it did not import, nor which ones are duplicated. TIF file should probably be handled right? 37654 photos successfully imported. 8 photos already in library were not imported. /home/photos/2010/04/19/img_5281.jpg /home/photos/2010/04/19/img_5283.jpg /home/photos/2010/04/19/img_5284.jpg /home/photos/2010/04/19/img_5285.jpg 4 more photos not imported. 1 unsupported photo skipped. /home/photos/2005/12/28/DSCF0368_200dpi.tif 53 non-image files skipped. /Bengt From adam at yorba.org Mon May 3 14:39:01 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 07:39:01 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Imported 37,000 photos... Looking great In-Reply-To: <1272896749.9501.5.camel@leo.thuree.com> References: <1272896749.9501.5.camel@leo.thuree.com> Message-ID: <4BDEE005.6040608@yorba.org> Bengt, On 05/03/2010 07:25 AM, Bengt Thuree wrote: > Hi > > I decided to try to import my photo library and it I must say Shotwell > looks great, and very quick response. > This is great to hear! > I am really looking forward to being able to start using it for real :) > > But can not start using it until it can read the embedded EXIF/IPTC/XMP > tags > Right. We're working on including that feature in Shotwell 0.6, which we're tentatively planning to ship some time in June. > > Not sure what the below error messages means though. > The 4 listed images have unique file name for instance. > I don't understand - what do you mean by a unique file name? > Do not know which photos it did not import, nor which ones are > duplicated. > The photos which were not imported are the 4 duplicates listed in the message, plus 4 more whose filenames weren't reported. When there are many duplicates, Shotwell only displays the filenames of the first few since otherwise they wouldn't all fit in the dialog. In the trunk build we've recently modified the text in this dialog to be slightly clearer (see http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1535). We'd welcome other suggestions about how to improve this dialog. > TIF file should probably be handled right? > > Shotwell won't yet import TIFF files; this is http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/601 . This feature probably won't make 0.6. adam > 37654 photos successfully imported. > > 8 photos already in library were not imported. > /home/photos/2010/04/19/img_5281.jpg > /home/photos/2010/04/19/img_5283.jpg > /home/photos/2010/04/19/img_5284.jpg > /home/photos/2010/04/19/img_5285.jpg > 4 more photos not imported. > > 1 unsupported photo skipped. > /home/photos/2005/12/28/DSCF0368_200dpi.tif > > 53 non-image files skipped. > > /Bengt > > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > > From bengt.thuree at gmail.com Mon May 3 16:07:01 2010 From: bengt.thuree at gmail.com (Bengt Thuree) Date: Tue, 04 May 2010 02:07:01 +1000 Subject: [Shotwell] Imported 37,000 photos... Looking great Message-ID: <1272902821.13748.6.camel@lappis> On Mon, 2010-05-03 at 07:39 -0700, Adam Dingle wrote: > > > > But can not start using it until it can read the embedded EXIF/IPTC/XMP > > tags > > > > Right. We're working on including that feature in Shotwell 0.6, which > we're tentatively planning to ship some time in June. Brilliant :) > > > > > Not sure what the below error messages means though. > > The 4 listed images have unique file name for instance. > > > > I don't understand - what do you mean by a unique file name? find . | grep only reports one occurance... > The photos which were not imported are the 4 duplicates listed in the > message, plus 4 more whose filenames weren't reported. When there are > many duplicates, Shotwell only displays the filenames of the first few > since otherwise they wouldn't all fit in the dialog. There should not really be any duplicates, and I checked with a 'find . | grep ' for each listed file name, and could not find a duplicate. /Bengt From mahfiaz at gmail.com Mon May 3 16:29:16 2010 From: mahfiaz at gmail.com (Mattias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=F5ldaru?=) Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 19:29:16 +0300 Subject: [Shotwell] Imported 37,000 photos... Looking great In-Reply-To: <1272902821.13748.6.camel@lappis> References: <1272902821.13748.6.camel@lappis> Message-ID: <1272904156.7250.9.camel@antiloop> ?hel kenal p?eval, T, 2010-05-04 kell 02:07, kirjutas Bengt Thuree: > On Mon, 2010-05-03 at 07:39 -0700, Adam Dingle wrote: > > > > > > But can not start using it until it can read the embedded EXIF/IPTC/XMP > > > tags > > > > > > > Right. We're working on including that feature in Shotwell 0.6, which > > we're tentatively planning to ship some time in June. > > Brilliant :) > > > > > > > > > Not sure what the below error messages means though. > > > The 4 listed images have unique file name for instance. > > > > > > > I don't understand - what do you mean by a unique file name? > > find . | grep only reports one occurance... > > > > The photos which were not imported are the 4 duplicates listed in the > > message, plus 4 more whose filenames weren't reported. When there are > > many duplicates, Shotwell only displays the filenames of the first few > > since otherwise they wouldn't all fit in the dialog. > > There should not really be any duplicates, and I checked with a 'find . > | grep ' for each listed file name, and could not find a > duplicate. Doesn't Shotwell compare file hashes? Mattias From jim at yorba.org Mon May 3 18:10:44 2010 From: jim at yorba.org (Jim Nelson) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 11:10:44 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Imported 37,000 photos... Looking great In-Reply-To: <1272904156.7250.9.camel@antiloop> References: <1272902821.13748.6.camel@lappis> <1272904156.7250.9.camel@antiloop> Message-ID: >> There should not really be any duplicates, and I checked with a 'find . >> | grep ' for each listed file name, and could not find a >> duplicate. > Doesn't Shotwell compare file hashes? Yes, by duplicate file Shotwell means the file's content is identical to another in the Shotwell library. Filenames are not compared. -- Jim From jim at yorba.org Mon May 3 23:12:02 2010 From: jim at yorba.org (Jim Nelson) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 16:12:02 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] New and recent changes in Shotwell trunk Message-ID: For everyone compiling Shotwell straight from trunk, there are important changes being made that you should be aware of. *This is especially important for downstream providers.* End users may find what follows interesting as well. * First, if you're actively following Shotwell's development in trunk, you've already discovered we now have limited/minimal/basic RAW support. There are outstanding issues with even this level of support, but it's there and it essentially works. (On the other hand, there are plenty of RAW features we'd like to have but are not present; see Shotwell's ticket bank for more information: http://trac.yorba.org/report/16) RAW support comes via libraw, the libraricized version of dcraw. Unfortunately there are no PPAs or repositories holding libraw (none that I know of, at least), so it must be downloaded and installed from tarball. We are planning to have a version available on our PPA in time for 0.6. We would prefer if someone else would step up and take ownership of the packaging task. We would *really* prefer it if the distros made it available in their standard repositories. If you're interested in championing libraw packaging, please contact the Shotwell team at shotwell at yorba.org. Or, drop a note on this mailing list. Shotwell currently relies on libraw 0.9.0. Download it from http://www.libraw.org/download * Second, Shotwell is migrating away from libexif to Exiv2, which is actively maintained and more mature. Exiv2 also brings to Shotwell XMP and IPTC support on a wide variety of photo file formats (including JPEG, PNG, TIFF, and RAW). The good news is, Exiv2 is packaged and widely available in repositories. The bad news is, Exiv2 is written in C++, meaning we need a wrapper of some kind in order to use it in Vala. Fortunately we discovered a nascent GObject-based wrapper called gexiv2 written by Mike Gemuende. Mike graciously blessed a fork of his project, and Yorba is now its maintainer. More information may be found here: http://trac.yorba.org/wiki/gexiv2 I've committed to Shotwell trunk a patch that moves the code away from libexif and to gexiv2. libexif is still required due to a single limitation of Exiv2 -- its developers are aware of it and it may be fixed in the future. (See http://dev.exiv2.org/boards/3/topics/show/499 and http://dev.exiv2.org/issues/show/467) Until then, Shotwell will depend on both libexif and gexiv2. As you can see, Shotwell 0.6 is shaping up to be a a major release. Stay tuned! -- Jim From florin at andrei.myip.org Thu May 6 16:45:26 2010 From: florin at andrei.myip.org (Florin Andrei) Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 09:45:26 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] suggestions Message-ID: <4BE2F226.30303@andrei.myip.org> (not subscribed to this list) Shotwell looks cool, congrats on the clean interface. Would it be possible to exit the forced organizer mode and just use it as a simple viewer? Some people prefer to organize their pictures "by hand" or using other means. It would be nice to present, in the left-hand panel, a list with thumbnails of the pictures in the current folder. This helps navigation enormously. I tend to reject any viewer that doesn't have this capability. Congratulations on the Adjust feature! It's incredible how many picture viewers and even editors do not have the basic Temperature / Tint controls. Would be nice to be able to reset any control in the Adjust panel individually - currently, the Reset button is global. Some applications (Lightroom 3 beta - the one I'm currently using on Windows) allow you to reset any individual control separately by double-clicking the cursor, but anything that makes sense is welcome. Thanks. -- Florin Andrei http://florin.myip.org/ From jim at yorba.org Thu May 6 18:16:35 2010 From: jim at yorba.org (Jim Nelson) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 11:16:35 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] suggestions In-Reply-To: <4BE2F226.30303@andrei.myip.org> References: <4BE2F226.30303@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: Hi Florin, In fact, Shotwell does have a photo viewer mode similar to what you're asking. If you right-click on a JPEG file you can select to view it with Shotwell. The photo viewer will navigate through the directory's contents (currently JPEG only, although more formats are on the way). All the editing tools you have in library mode are available here as well. The only difference is, when you save your changes, they're written directly to the file. (In library mode, we're non-destructive.) The one thing not available is a directory browser; I've added a ticket for this: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1883 -- Jim On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Florin Andrei wrote: > (not subscribed to this list) > > Shotwell looks cool, congrats on the clean interface. > > Would it be possible to exit the forced organizer mode and just use it > as a simple viewer? Some people prefer to organize their pictures "by > hand" or using other means. > > It would be nice to present, in the left-hand panel, a list with > thumbnails of the pictures in the current folder. This helps navigation > enormously. I tend to reject any viewer that doesn't have this capability. > > Congratulations on the Adjust feature! It's incredible how many picture > viewers and even editors do not have the basic Temperature / Tint > controls. Would be nice to be able to reset any control in the Adjust > panel individually - currently, the Reset button is global. Some > applications (Lightroom 3 beta - the one I'm currently using on Windows) > allow you to reset any individual control separately by double-clicking > the cursor, but anything that makes sense is welcome. > > Thanks. > > -- > Florin Andrei > http://florin.myip.org/ > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > From adam at yorba.org Thu May 6 18:48:05 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 11:48:05 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <4BE2F226.30303@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <4BE30EE5.6040108@yorba.org> > Would it be possible to exit the forced organizer mode and just use it > as a simple viewer? As you may know, if you already have a set of photos which you've organized into a directory hierarchy you like, you can import them into Shotwell while preserving the existing hierarchy in place - just use File->Import and clear the "Copy files to Pictures photo library" checkbox, or drag into Shotwell while holding down Ctrl+Shift. Regarding using Shotwell as a viewer, I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for here - there are a couple of possibilities: 1. As Jim mentioned, you can already use Shotwell to view photos one at a time, and we could conceivably extend that single-photo mode to allow you to browse directories. Then you could browse through photos without ever importing them into the Shotwell database. 2. We're also considering adding a file tree to the sidebar which would allow you to browse through all photos which have been imported into Shotwell according to their containing directories - this is http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1594 . With approach (2) you keep your existing directory hierarchy and can use it for browsing, but the Shotwell database knows about all your photos, which has many advantages: Shotwell will remember non-destructive edits, you can tag photos and view them arranged by event/date, and hopefully in future releases you'll also be able to browse them by geographic places (http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1473) or even search by arbitrary metadata criteria (http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1587) and so on. > Would be nice to be able to reset any control in the Adjust panel individually Yes. This is http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/959 . It might even make 0.6. adam On 05/06/2010 11:16 AM, Jim Nelson wrote: > Hi Florin, > > In fact, Shotwell does have a photo viewer mode similar to what you're > asking. If you right-click on a JPEG file you can select to view it > with Shotwell. The photo viewer will navigate through the directory's > contents (currently JPEG only, although more formats are on the way). > All the editing tools you have in library mode are available here as > well. The only difference is, when you save your changes, they're > written directly to the file. (In library mode, we're > non-destructive.) > > The one thing not available is a directory browser; I've added a > ticket for this: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1883 > > -- Jim > > On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Florin Andrei wrote: > >> (not subscribed to this list) >> >> Shotwell looks cool, congrats on the clean interface. >> >> Would it be possible to exit the forced organizer mode and just use it >> as a simple viewer? Some people prefer to organize their pictures "by >> hand" or using other means. >> >> It would be nice to present, in the left-hand panel, a list with >> thumbnails of the pictures in the current folder. This helps navigation >> enormously. I tend to reject any viewer that doesn't have this capability. >> >> Congratulations on the Adjust feature! It's incredible how many picture >> viewers and even editors do not have the basic Temperature / Tint >> controls. Would be nice to be able to reset any control in the Adjust >> panel individually - currently, the Reset button is global. Some >> applications (Lightroom 3 beta - the one I'm currently using on Windows) >> allow you to reset any individual control separately by double-clicking >> the cursor, but anything that makes sense is welcome. >> >> Thanks. >> >> -- >> Florin Andrei >> http://florin.myip.org/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Shotwell mailing list >> Shotwell at lists.yorba.org >> http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > > From florin at andrei.myip.org Thu May 6 18:53:24 2010 From: florin at andrei.myip.org (Florin Andrei) Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 11:53:24 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <4BE2F226.30303@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <4BE31024.7040000@andrei.myip.org> On 05/06/2010 11:16 AM, Jim Nelson wrote: > > In fact, Shotwell does have a photo viewer mode similar to what you're > asking. If you right-click on a JPEG file you can select to view it > with Shotwell. The photo viewer will navigate through the directory's > contents (currently JPEG only, although more formats are on the way). I see now. That's good. I was confused because there's no obvious way to switch between the viewer and organizer modes in the app. It's all controlled exclusively by the way the app is launched. Out of sight, out of mind. > All the editing tools you have in library mode are available here as > well. The only difference is, when you save your changes, they're > written directly to the file. (In library mode, we're > non-destructive.) Save changes to file is actually a plus for those people who organize their pictures manually. ;-) I used to hate Picasa and did not use it for tweaking until I figured it requires an explicit Save to apply the changes to the picture. I haven't tested your red eye reduction yet, but so far Shotwell has a pretty good chance to replace Picasa when I'm on Linux and I need to tweak a few pictures quickly (for the heavy lifting part, such as RAW processing on a calibrated monitor, I use Adobe Lightroom 3 beta on Windows). I would guess the Shadows function is inspired by Picasa & Co. A big weakness of those programs is that the filter is easy to use but primitive. It can lift the shadows, sure, but often the pictures end up looking washed out. Could you guys add a gamma curve tweaking? (unless you want to keep it very simple) Or maybe make sure that Shadows is truly applied only to the bottom of the gamma. With Lightroom 3 (I keep using it as a reference, for obvious reasons), there's something called Blacks (IIRC, I'm on Linux now), and it truly makes changes only to the gamma floor. With Picasa, when I try to lift the shadows (often required when shooting with a tiny-sensor point-and-shoot camera), it's like lifting Blacks and increasing Brightness at the same time (when compared to Lightroom). I'm not sure what Shotwell does here. I'll have to check it out. But keep in mind - shadows means shadows, if I want to increase brightness I'll do it myself. Speaking of which: Brightness and Contrast? Please? :-) Also, some kind of markers or a scale or something for the sliders on the Adjust tab? Even if it's a fake percentage point scale it's better than nothing. Of course, reading the temperature from EXIF and placing the Temperature slider in the right point automatically would be very cool. ;-) > The one thing not available is a directory browser; I've added a > ticket for this: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1883 That's good. Here's how I always configure gThumb: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29966/gthumb-4-shotwell.png There are other ways too - Picasa has a thumbnail bar at the top, etc. -- Florin Andrei http://florin.myip.org/ From florin at andrei.myip.org Thu May 6 20:03:08 2010 From: florin at andrei.myip.org (Florin Andrei) Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 13:03:08 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] suggestions In-Reply-To: <4BE30EE5.6040108@yorba.org> References: <4BE2F226.30303@andrei.myip.org> <4BE30EE5.6040108@yorba.org> Message-ID: <4BE3207C.90508@andrei.myip.org> On 05/06/2010 11:48 AM, Adam Dingle wrote: > > As you may know, if you already have a set of photos which you've > organized into a directory hierarchy you like, you can import them into > Shotwell while preserving the existing hierarchy in place - just use I keep all my pictures (a decade worth of data, 40k+ pictures, 50+ GB) on a webserver, shared with Gallery (I'm right now in the process of migrating from G2 to G3, so they are not available externally). But the directory structure is 100% hand-crafted, Gallery gives you a lot of freedom in that regard. . |-- YYYY | |-- YYYYMMDD__event1__place1 | | |-- P1212312312.JPEG | | |-- P2323232322.JPEG | | YYYYMMDD__event2__place2 | | |-- P3453453453.JPEG |-- YYYY | |-- YYYYMMDD__event3__place3 ..... ..... ..... It's basically one album for each year, containing sub-albums for each event, containing pictures. A lot of metadata is at the filesystem level (names of folders). There may be some custom metadata in EXIF (geolocation, etc.) at some point in the future, but not now. There are only jaypegs, I don't keep RAW format files (I process them once, then delete the original RAW - otherwise I'd waste my whole life just tweaking RAW files forever). That's the "master copy" (there are rsync backup copies too) and it's not local. I want to keep it exactly the way it is, to avoid dependency on any software or platform or whatever. Also, my laptops and workstations are always more or less in flux (I don't even own my laptop), while the server is a much more stable environment - hence why the master copy is on the server instead of somewhere else. So now you see why an organizer is useless to me. I'm by no means the exception - yet I don't deny the usefulness of an organizer for those who prefer a different workflow. Horses for courses, to each their own. But a viewer with some decent tweaking capabilities is always welcome, no matter who you are. Linux is kind of lacking in this department. There's Picasa (which is pretty weak) and that's pretty much it. Shotwell with the Adjust button was a pleasant surprise. > Regarding using Shotwell as a viewer, I'm not sure exactly what you're > looking for here This: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29966/gthumb-4-shotwell.png Or Picasa. Allow me to do Prev / Next through a folder while keeping an eye on the thumbnails of the pictures nearby, while I'm making quick adjustments to those photos which require it. Thumbnails are invaluable when there are 6 copies of nearly the same shot, I need to keep 1 and delete 5. With thumbnails, I can make decisions so much more quickly. My point is - I have a life, I can't spend all my time processing pictures. So I have to find ways to accelerate processing as much as possible, while keeping the quality of the end result in the green zone. I download the pictures from the camera, process them in one shot (trim the repeats, develop RAW if they were made with the big camera, tweak exposure/temp/tint/etc if necessary, run them through the denoiser in batch mode, save as JPEG, upload to server, done). If it takes more than 30 min total (from sit down to stand up) for a 120 pic batch (of which there may be 30 keepers or so), it means I wasted my time. > 2. We're also considering adding a file tree to the sidebar which would > allow you to browse through all photos which have been imported into > Shotwell according to their containing directories - this is > http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1594 . I'll take both - tree and thumbnails. :) See screenshot above. Show the tree in a tiny rectangle, and the thumbnails for the current folder in a bigger rectangle. They can both be stacked in a narrow column on either the left or the right side, there's plenty of 16:9 monitors nowadays. Or see Picasa for a different layout. Whatever works. gThumb gives the user a lot of freedom to choose the GUI layout. But then there's the problem of the default layout, which is not trivial (gThumb makes bad default choices IMO, Picasa is better with the default, but I like gThumb better after I change it). User interfaces are complicated. :-( -- Florin Andrei http://florin.myip.org/ From palango at gmx.de Thu May 6 22:47:58 2010 From: palango at gmx.de (Paul Lange) Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 00:47:58 +0200 Subject: [Shotwell] Slideshow Summer Project Message-ID: <1273186078.4770.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> After some time diving through bugzilla I now want to present my proposal for a summer project with the goal of improving shotwells slideshow mode. This would be mostly about implementing the following feature requests: ? http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1081 slideshow transitions ? http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1592 Show Title ? http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1557 music in slideshows My idea and proposal is to use clutter [1] as the underlying technology. clutter is a glib based 3d-scenegraph which makes it really easy to develop visually pleasing and high-performance user-interfaces. Creating slideshow transitions with clutter is much easier than doing it with cairo, so I prefer to use it. Furthermore a clutter version of the slideshow would be easy expendable, for example it could be possible to add video capabilities to the slideshow later. I would be really happy to get feedback on my proposal. with kind regards, Paul [1] http://www.clutter-project.org/ From vperetokin at gmail.com Thu May 6 22:54:09 2010 From: vperetokin at gmail.com (Vadim Peretokin) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 18:54:09 -0400 Subject: [Shotwell] Slideshow Summer Project In-Reply-To: <1273186078.4770.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1273186078.4770.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Just from a users pov, I support this :) clutter is definitely the way to go on this. On May 6, 2010 6:48 PM, "Paul Lange" wrote: After some time diving through bugzilla I now want to present my proposal for a summer project with the goal of improving shotwells slideshow mode. This would be mostly about implementing the following feature requests: ? http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1081 slideshow transitions ? http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1592 Show Title ? http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1557 music in slideshows My idea and proposal is to use clutter [1] as the underlying technology. clutter is a glib based 3d-scenegraph which makes it really easy to develop visually pleasing and high-performance user-interfaces. Creating slideshow transitions with clutter is much easier than doing it with cairo, so I prefer to use it. Furthermore a clutter version of the slideshow would be easy expendable, for example it could be possible to add video capabilities to the slideshow later. I would be really happy to get feedback on my proposal. with kind regards, Paul [1] http://www.clutter-project.org/ _______________________________________________ Shotwell mailing list Shotwell at lists.yorba.org http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell From lucas at yorba.org Fri May 7 19:01:48 2010 From: lucas at yorba.org (Lucas Beeler) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 12:01:48 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] suggestions In-Reply-To: <4BE3207C.90508@andrei.myip.org> References: <4BE2F226.30303@andrei.myip.org> <4BE30EE5.6040108@yorba.org> <4BE3207C.90508@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: Hi Florin, > I would guess the Shadows function is inspired by Picasa & Co. A big > weakness of those programs is that the filter is easy to use but > primitive. It can lift the shadows, sure, but often the pictures end up > looking washed out. I wrote the shadow detail boosting algorithm in Shotwell with my own needs as a serious amateur photographer in mind. Though there are exceptions, I think you'll find Shotwell's shadow control to be superior to Picasa's in at least two key respects: (i) Effectiveness: Shotwell's shadow detail control appears to blend in a higher absolute pixel value multiplier than the one used in Picasa. The result is that if you move the shadows slider into the top third of its parameter range, you get a more aggressive boosting of shadow detail than is possible in Picasa. (ii) Image quality: Shotwell's shadow detail control uses a smooth Hermite polynomial curve to blend in and blend out the intensity of the exposure boosting transformation. The Hermite polynomial is a single curve segment (i.e. not a spline) of degree 4 whose shape is directly controlled through its coefficients. The advantage of using a single polynomial segment is that the blending function is infinitely differentiable, so there are no points of discontinuity, even at higher derivatives. These higher derivatives control things like the rate at which tonal intensity change accelerates or decelerates. While this might not seem important, the human visual system is acutely sensitive to movement, change, and the rate of change, so discontinuities in the higher derivatives of blending functions can lead to perceptible visual artifacts like banding and posterization. In terms of how well the transformation is constrained to the lower end of the intensity range (and doesn't bleach out the photo), we at Yorba are satisfied with it, at least for now. Once again, I think this is something that we do better than Picasa, but others might not think so. How the blending curves are parameterized is as much an art as a science and individual aesthetic tastes definitely play a role. I would just tell you to use Shotwell's shadow control for a while and to see what you think of it. Thank you so much for your interest in Shotwell. Regards, Lucas From bengt at thuree.com Sat May 8 12:18:26 2010 From: bengt at thuree.com (Bengt Thuree) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 22:18:26 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Shotwell] Glade or handcraft? Message-ID: <44231.59.154.63.92.1273321106.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> Hi Perhaps this is not an issue, but in a previous project the Glade file caused a lot of grief when it came to check patches. Mainly that the diff between two versions of Glade files usually showed a couple of 100-1000 rows different, even if there only in reality was 10-30 lines different. Due to this, this project decided to start to handcraft the GUI from each source file instead. To enable patch review to be much easier. Is this something Shotwell should consider? /Bengt -- Bengt Thuree bengt at thuree.com From bengt at thuree.com Sat May 8 14:12:07 2010 From: bengt at thuree.com (Bengt Thuree) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 00:12:07 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Shotwell] Glade or handcraft? In-Reply-To: References: <44231.59.154.63.92.1273321106.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> Message-ID: <14443.59.154.63.92.1273327927.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> In this case I think that the glade file was at a couple of thousand lines, and a patch was submitted that included GUI fixes. The patch was reviewed 3-6 months further down the track, and at that time the glade file had been modified (minor and major changes) many times.... Was very difficult or more or less impossible to patch the glade file. /Bengt Den L?, 2010-05-08, 23:51 skrev Vadim Peretokin: > I surely hope not, sacrificing a no-recompile UI development cycle, > and a *much* faster and easier way to create and edit interfaces just > so you can comprehend the whole UI in your mind by reading some code > is a big step backwards. > > -- Bengt Thuree bengt at thuree.com From bengt.thuree at gmail.com Sat May 8 18:09:40 2010 From: bengt.thuree at gmail.com (Bengt Thuree) Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 04:09:40 +1000 Subject: [Shotwell] Importing tags - hmm Message-ID: <1273342180.3774.11.camel@lappis> Hi Just tested the latest trunk, and especially importing tags... I could import some (did not check in detail) of my iViewMediaPro tags. F-Spot and some others are having problems though... Importing one photo below, and Shotwell finds one of the tags (Bengt), but nothing else. > bengt at lappis:~/scripts$ ./shotwell.sh > Error: Directory Iop with 19712 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Unknown with 8224 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Iop with 19712 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Unknown with 8224 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Iop with 19712 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Unknown with 8224 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Iop with 19712 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Unknown with 8224 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Iop with 19712 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Unknown with 8224 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Iop with 19712 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Unknown with 8224 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Iop with 19712 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Unknown with 8224 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Iop with 19712 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Unknown with 8224 entries considered invalid; not read. But exiv2 -pa gives... > $ exiv2 -pa Bengt\ \&\ Andreas\,\ 2002-02.JPG > Error: Directory Iop with 19712 entries considered invalid; not read. > Error: Directory Unknown with 8224 entries considered invalid; not read. > Exif.Image.Make Ascii 9 FUJIFILM > Exif.Image.Model Ascii 11 FinePix40i > Exif.Image.Orientation Short 1 top, left > Exif.Image.XResolution Rational 1 72 > Exif.Image.YResolution Rational 1 72 > Exif.Image.ResolutionUnit Short 1 inch > Exif.Image.Software Ascii 34 Digital Camera FinePix40i Ver2.09 > Exif.Image.DateTime Ascii 20 2002:02:17 23:51:28 > Exif.Image.YCbCrPositioning Short 1 Co-sited > Exif.Image.Copyright Ascii 11 > Exif.Image.Orientation Short 1 top, left > Exif.Image.YCbCrPositioning Short 1 Co-sited > Exif.Image.ExifTag Long 1 283 > Exif.Photo.FNumber Rational 1 F2.8 > Exif.Photo.ExposureProgram Short 1 Auto > Exif.Photo.ISOSpeedRatings Short 1 200 > Exif.Photo.ExifVersion Undefined 4 2.10 > Exif.Photo.DateTimeOriginal Ascii 20 2002:02:17 23:51:28 > Exif.Photo.DateTimeDigitized Ascii 20 2002:02:17 23:51:28 > Exif.Photo.ComponentsConfiguration Undefined 4 YCbCr > Exif.Photo.CompressedBitsPerPixel Rational 1 1.5 > Exif.Photo.ShutterSpeedValue SRational 1 1/45 s > Exif.Photo.ApertureValue Rational 1 F2.8 > Exif.Photo.BrightnessValue SRational 1 -0.01 > Exif.Photo.ExposureBiasValue SRational 1 0 EV > Exif.Photo.MaxApertureValue Rational 1 F2.8 > Exif.Photo.MeteringMode Short 1 Multi-segment > Exif.Photo.Flash Short 1 Fired > Exif.Photo.FocalLength Rational 1 8.7 mm > Exif.Photo.MakerNote Undefined 214 (Binary value suppressed) > Exif.MakerNote.Offset Long 1 713 > Exif.MakerNote.ByteOrder Ascii 3 II > Exif.Fujifilm.Version Undefined 4 48 49 51 48 > Exif.Fujifilm.Quality Ascii 8 NORMAL > Exif.Fujifilm.Sharpness Short 1 Normal > Exif.Fujifilm.WhiteBalance Short 1 Auto > Exif.Fujifilm.FlashMode Short 1 Auto > Exif.Fujifilm.FlashStrength SRational 1 0/10 > Exif.Fujifilm.Macro Short 1 Off > Exif.Fujifilm.FocusMode Short 1 Auto > Exif.Fujifilm.SlowSync Short 1 Off > Exif.Fujifilm.PictureMode Short 1 Portrait > Exif.Fujifilm.Continuous Short 1 Off > Exif.Fujifilm.BlurWarning Short 1 Off > Exif.Fujifilm.FocusWarning Short 1 Off > Exif.Fujifilm.ExposureWarning Short 1 Off > Exif.Photo.FlashpixVersion Undefined 4 1.00 > Exif.Photo.ColorSpace Short 1 sRGB > Exif.Photo.PixelXDimension Long 1 2400 > Exif.Photo.PixelYDimension Long 1 1800 > Exif.Photo.InteroperabilityTag Long 1 926 > Exif.Photo.FocalPlaneXResolution Rational 1 2381 > Exif.Photo.FocalPlaneYResolution Rational 1 2381 > Exif.Photo.FocalPlaneResolutionUnit Short 1 cm > Exif.Photo.FileSource Undefined 1 Digital still camera > Exif.Photo.SceneType Undefined 1 Directly photographed > Exif.Thumbnail.Compression Short 1 JPEG (old-style) > Exif.Thumbnail.XResolution Rational 1 72 > Exif.Thumbnail.YResolution Rational 1 72 > Exif.Thumbnail.ResolutionUnit Short 1 inch > Exif.Thumbnail.JPEGInterchangeFormat Long 1 1037 > Exif.Thumbnail.JPEGInterchangeFormatLength Long 1 8377 > Iptc.Application2.RecordVersion Short 1 2 > Iptc.Application2.Keywords String 5 Bengt > Iptc.Application2.Byline String 22 Jade and Bengt Thure'e > Iptc.Application2.City String 8 Yokohama > Iptc.Application2.CountryName String 5 Japan > Iptc.Application2.Headline String 30 Bengt holding Andreas Pullinen > Iptc.Application2.Copyright String 22 Jade and Bengt Thure'e > Xmp.photoshop.City XmpText 8 Yokohama > Xmp.photoshop.Country XmpText 5 Japan > Xmp.photoshop.Headline XmpText 30 Bengt holding Andreas Pullinen > Xmp.xmp.MetadataDate XmpText 20 2004-08-31T03:04:12Z > Xmp.dc.rights LangAlt 1 lang="x-default" Jade and Bengt Thure'e > Xmp.dc.creator XmpSeq 1 Jade and Bengt Thure'e > Xmp.dc.subject XmpBag 1 Bengt > Another photo do not give any errors on the command line, but only manages to import one field (Keywords field). > $ exiv2 -pa sunglasses.jpg > Exif.Image.ImageDescription Ascii 32 > Exif.Image.Make Ascii 5 SONY > Exif.Image.Model Ascii 7 DSC-W1 > Exif.Image.XResolution Rational 1 72 > Exif.Image.YResolution Rational 1 72 > Exif.Image.ResolutionUnit Short 1 inch > Exif.Image.DateTime Ascii 20 2005:04:25 12:40:14 > Exif.Image.YCbCrPositioning Short 1 Co-sited > Exif.Image.ReferenceBlackWhite Rational 6 0/1 255/1 128/1 255/1 128/1 255/1 > Exif.Image.ExifTag Long 1 294 > Exif.Photo.ExposureTime Rational 1 1/125 s > Exif.Photo.FNumber Rational 1 F4 > Exif.Photo.ExposureProgram Short 1 Auto > Exif.Photo.ISOSpeedRatings Short 1 100 > Exif.Photo.ExifVersion Undefined 4 2.20 > Exif.Photo.DateTimeOriginal Ascii 20 2005:04:25 12:40:14 > Exif.Photo.DateTimeDigitized Ascii 20 2005:04:25 12:40:14 > Exif.Photo.ComponentsConfiguration Undefined 4 YCbCr > Exif.Photo.CompressedBitsPerPixel Rational 1 8 > Exif.Photo.ExposureBiasValue SRational 1 0 EV > Exif.Photo.MaxApertureValue Rational 1 F2.8 > Exif.Photo.MeteringMode Short 1 Multi-segment > Exif.Photo.LightSource Short 1 Unknown > Exif.Photo.Flash Short 1 No, auto > Exif.Photo.FocalLength Rational 1 15.1 mm > Exif.Photo.MakerNote Undefined 1566 (Binary value suppressed) > Exif.MakerNote.Offset Long 1 736 > Exif.MakerNote.ByteOrder Ascii 3 II > Exif.Photo.FlashpixVersion Undefined 4 1.00 > Exif.Photo.ColorSpace Short 1 sRGB > Exif.Photo.PixelXDimension Long 1 800 > Exif.Photo.PixelYDimension Long 1 600 > Exif.Photo.FileSource Undefined 1 Digital still camera > Exif.Photo.SceneType Undefined 1 Directly photographed > Exif.Photo.CustomRendered Short 1 Normal process > Exif.Photo.ExposureMode Short 1 Auto > Exif.Photo.WhiteBalance Short 1 Auto > Exif.Photo.SceneCaptureType Short 1 Standard > Exif.Photo.Contrast Short 1 Normal > Exif.Photo.Saturation Short 1 Normal > Exif.Photo.Sharpness Short 1 Normal > Exif.Image.PrintImageMatching Undefined 28 80 114 105 110 116 73 77 0 48 50 53 48 0 0 2 0 2 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 > Iptc.Application2.Urgency String 1 5 > Iptc.Application2.Keywords String 14 Keywords Field > Iptc.Application2.LocationName String 11 Place Field > Iptc.Application2.DateCreated Date 8 2005-04-25 > Iptc.Application2.TimeCreated Time 11 12:40:14-02:00 > Iptc.Application2.Program String 14 BrilliantPhoto > Iptc.Application2.ProgramVersion String 3 1.2 > Iptc.Application2.Byline String 0 > Iptc.Application2.Headline String 11 Event Field > Iptc.Application2.Source String 6 DSC-W1 > Iptc.Application2.Contact String 12 People Field > Iptc.Application2.Caption String 13 Caption Field Will test a bit more later... /Bengt From adam at yorba.org Mon May 10 15:55:40 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 08:55:40 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Glade or handcraft? In-Reply-To: <14443.59.154.63.92.1273327927.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> References: <44231.59.154.63.92.1273321106.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> <14443.59.154.63.92.1273327927.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> Message-ID: <4BE82C7C.3040903@yorba.org> Bengt, we're currently moving toward using Glade for all dialogs in Shotwell. The situation you described, where a patch was reviewed after 3-6 months, would be very unusual in Shotwell; we've always reviewed all patches within a couple of days. If large Glade merges become a practical problem in the future we could possibly reconsider this, but for the moment we're happy with Glade, and as Vadim pointed out it has significant benefits. adam On 05/08/2010 07:12 AM, Bengt Thuree wrote: > In this case I think that the glade file was at a couple of thousand > lines, and a patch was submitted that included GUI fixes. > > The patch was reviewed 3-6 months further down the track, and at that time > the glade file had been modified (minor and major changes) many times.... > > Was very difficult or more or less impossible to patch the glade file. > > > /Bengt > > Den L?, 2010-05-08, 23:51 skrev Vadim Peretokin: > >> I surely hope not, sacrificing a no-recompile UI development cycle, >> and a *much* faster and easier way to create and edit interfaces just >> so you can comprehend the whole UI in your mind by reading some code >> is a big step backwards. >> >> >> > > From adam at yorba.org Mon May 10 16:09:32 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 09:09:32 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] image cropping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BE82FBC.7090806@yorba.org> Alexander, > Hi, > > I've tried shotwell and it is a great program. Thanks! > I don't see how to submit a bug or new feature though. > You can sign up for an accout at http://trac.yorba.org and then add tickets to the list of Shotwell bugs/features at http://trac.yorba.org/report/16 . You can alternatively send ideas to the Shotwell mailing list (see http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell ). > I would like to submit the following feature: > I work with photos a lot and the best lossless cropping tool I've used > is faststone image viewer. It is compatible with windows only. If > offer the following cropping features: > 1. Show hide the net for the rule of thirds > I've just filed a ticket for showing/hiding the rule of thirds lines in Shotwell: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1891 . > 2. Darken the area that is outside the selection > Shotwell does this today. > 3. Lossless cropping > We have a ticket for this: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/775 . > 4. Paper size that allows to switch between portrait and landscape mode > Shotwell does this today. When the crop tool is open, you can press the button showing an arrow inside a box (immediately to the left of Cancel) to switch the crop rectangle between portrait and landscape modes. > 5. Shortcut for opening the cropping tool > There's a ticket for this at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1881 . This should be easy and so I'm quite sure it will be in the next release (0.6). Thanks for your interest in Shotwell! adam > I know that some of these are implemented in the shotwell, but the way > it is done in by the faststone allows to work with photos much faster. > I hope you can implement the same or do it even better. > > Thank you for your work! > > From mnemo at minimum.se Mon May 10 18:20:49 2010 From: mnemo at minimum.se (Martin Olsson) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 20:20:49 +0200 Subject: [Shotwell] Downstream bug reports coming in for Lucid Message-ID: <4BE84E81.70907@minimum.se> Now that the Lucid Lynx has escaped into the wild there are bug reports coming into the Ubuntu bug tracker for Shotwell 0.5.0. You can subscribe to Shotwell bugmail from Ubuntu by opening this page (below) and clicking the "Subscribe to bugmail" link in the top right corner: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shotwell So far one guy reported these two bugs, both of which I think are valid (although I didn't check if they are fixed on trunk yet): "sort order of duplicate files is not stable/predictable" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shotwell/+bug/577480 "should not use hidden photo as Key Photo for an event" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shotwell/+bug/577815 I suppose the best thing to do for valid downstream bugs is to mark them as confirmed and create a corresponding upstream bug report (these can then be linked by clicking the "Also affects project" link in the downstream bug report). If someone reports several bugs I suppose they will get the hint after a while and check their bugs on trunk + filing upstream bug directly instead. Martin From adam at yorba.org Mon May 10 18:40:35 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 11:40:35 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Downstream bug reports coming in for Lucid In-Reply-To: <4BE84E81.70907@minimum.se> References: <4BE84E81.70907@minimum.se> Message-ID: <4BE85323.8070808@yorba.org> Martin, On 05/10/2010 11:20 AM, Martin Olsson wrote: > Now that the Lucid Lynx has escaped into the wild there are bug reports > coming into the Ubuntu bug tracker for Shotwell 0.5.0. You can subscribe > to Shotwell bugmail from Ubuntu by opening this page (below) and clicking > the "Subscribe to bugmail" link in the top right corner: > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shotwell > Thanks for the info - this is useful to know, and I've just subscribed to this bugfeed. > So far one guy reported these two bugs, both of which I think > are valid (although I didn't check if they are fixed on trunk yet): > > "sort order of duplicate files is not stable/predictable" > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shotwell/+bug/577480 > > "should not use hidden photo as Key Photo for an event" > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shotwell/+bug/577815 > And thanks for reporting these bugs upstream to us. Neither has yet been fixed in trunk, I believe. > I suppose the best thing to do for valid downstream bugs is > to mark them as confirmed and create a corresponding upstream > bug report (these can then be linked by clicking the > "Also affects project" link in the downstream bug report). > If someone reports several bugs I suppose they will get the > hint after a while and check their bugs on trunk + filing > upstream bug directly instead. > Sounds good. adam From adam at yorba.org Mon May 10 19:10:06 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 12:10:06 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Importing tags - hmm In-Reply-To: <1273342180.3774.11.camel@lappis> References: <1273342180.3774.11.camel@lappis> Message-ID: <4BE85A0E.4090001@yorba.org> Bengt, thanks for being brave enough to try out our new tag import feature so soon after it's been committed to trunk! > Importing one photo below, and Shotwell finds one of the tags (Bengt), but nothing else. > I hope it's clear that Shotwell today will *not* import all EXIF/IPTC/XMP tags and make them available through the user interface explicitly. There are higher-end photo programs which do that (e.g. Aperture), but at this time Shotwell will only import a title (or "caption") and keywords (which appear in the Shotwell user interface as "tags"). This means that the most you should have expected from this import was that Shotwell would import the keywords ("Bengt") and the title ("Bengt holding Andreas Pullinen"). It didn't import the title because we haven't yet chosen to import titles from the Iptc.Application2.Headline tag, since none of the existing photo programs we've looked at write to it. But perhaps we should read from that tag, come to think of it. > Another photo do not give any errors on the command line, but only manages to import one field (Keywords field). Again, that behavior is pretty much expected, although perhaps we should have additionally imported the Iptc.Application2.Headline as a title. It's possible that someday Shotwell will import all IPTC/XMP tags and make them available for displaying/editing/searching. We're currently not planning that for 0.6, however. adam From bengt at thuree.com Mon May 10 23:22:52 2010 From: bengt at thuree.com (Bengt Thuree) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 09:22:52 +1000 Subject: [Shotwell] Importing tags - hmm In-Reply-To: <4BE85A0E.4090001@yorba.org> References: <1273342180.3774.11.camel@lappis> <4BE85A0E.4090001@yorba.org> Message-ID: <1273533772.3774.25.camel@lappis> On Mon, 2010-05-10 at 12:10 -0700, Adam Dingle wrote: > Bengt, > > thanks for being brave enough to try out our new tag import feature so > soon after it's been committed to trunk! Isn't that was a lot of volunter testers are for :) > > > Importing one photo below, and Shotwell finds one of the tags (Bengt), but nothing else. > > > > I hope it's clear that Shotwell today will *not* import all > EXIF/IPTC/XMP tags and make them available through the user interface Sorry, there were no indications in the ticket, apart form it handled importing tags, and it was closed (fixed in Trunk). > explicitly. There are higher-end photo programs which do that (e.g. > Aperture), but at this time Shotwell will only import a title (or > "caption") and keywords (which appear in the Shotwell user interface as > "tags"). I went through all this with F-Spot, that is was the main driver for importing tags to F-Spot, and there are a number of applications out there that stores tags in a bit different ways. I would definitely recommend Shotwell to read more formats than what it stores. I put up a wiki page with how F-Spot imports the tags for your reference. > > It's possible that someday Shotwell will import all IPTC/XMP tags and > make them available for displaying/editing/searching. We're currently > not planning that for 0.6, however. For the moment I will gladly help out with various testing of Shotwell, but can not start really using it until it can read all my tags. That was also the same comment for a lot of users who migrated to F-Spot after the tag import got working. What I have seen so far from the development and tickets and responses makes me think Shotwell will be a great product later on, and already is very close to it (after just a couple of months!) Again, thank you very much for a great product, and hope I am not causing to much problem for you ... /Bengt From adam at yorba.org Tue May 11 22:05:41 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 15:05:41 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Importing tags - hmm In-Reply-To: <1273533772.3774.25.camel@lappis> References: <1273342180.3774.11.camel@lappis> <4BE85A0E.4090001@yorba.org> <1273533772.3774.25.camel@lappis> Message-ID: <4BE9D4B5.3000903@yorba.org> Bengt, On 05/10/2010 04:22 PM, Bengt Thuree wrote: > > I went through all this with F-Spot, that is was the main driver for > importing tags to F-Spot, and there are a number of applications out > there that stores tags in a bit different ways. > I would definitely recommend Shotwell to read more formats than what it > stores. > I put up a wiki page with how F-Spot imports the tags for your > reference. > > Thanks for your Wiki page! I think I finally understand what you were expecting: you wanted Shotwell to import your location and people XMP tags and turn them into ordinary Shotwell tags. We weren't planning to do that at this point. We're definitely interested in having a sidebar location tree in Shotwell (http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1473), but I think the elements in that tree will not be ordinary tags: Shotwell will know about their locations so that it can display photos on a map or perform geographic searches. We might also implement a people sidebar tree along with face detection (http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1702). So in the long term I think we'd like to import location/XMP tags as metadata for those alternate views, not into ordinary tags as Shotwell supports today. Thanks also for adding the Wiki text mentioning the SyncMetaData F-Spot extension that writes F-Spot metadata to photo files. This will be very useful for users who want to migrate from F-Spot to Shotwell. >> > For the moment I will gladly help out with various testing of Shotwell, > but can not start really using it until it can read all my tags. Understood. I do hope we'll be able to make Shotwell handle a wider set of tags including ratings and locations before too long. adam From lucas at yorba.org Wed May 12 03:21:35 2010 From: lucas at yorba.org (Lucas Beeler) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 20:21:35 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Released: Shotwell 0.5.2 - a digital photo manager for the GNOME desktop Message-ID: Yorba has released Shotwell 0.5.2, an update to our digital photo manager. This release includes updated language support only. Support for Czech, Finnish, Greek, and Ukrainian has been introduced and support for Russian has been updated. We recommend that users running Shotwell in these languages upgrade. Users in other locales are unaffected and do not need to upgrade. You can download a source tarball from the Shotwell home page at: http://www.yorba.org/shotwell/ or grab a binary for Ubuntu Karmic or Lucid via Yorba's Launchpad PPA at: https://launchpad.net/~yorba/+archive/ppa -- Lucas Beeler Shotwell home page: http://www.yorba.org/shotwell/ Shotwell wiki: http://trac.yorba.org/wiki/Shotwell From vperetokin at gmail.com Thu May 13 17:45:51 2010 From: vperetokin at gmail.com (Vadim Peretokin) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 13:45:51 -0400 Subject: [Shotwell] Shotwell replaces F-Spot in Ubuntu 10.10 App Line-up Message-ID: Per http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/ubuntu-1010-application-lineup-sees-no.html! Which doesn't like to the original source unfortunately, but I don't see them being wrong about this. Great news =) From adam at yorba.org Thu May 13 18:03:40 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:03:40 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Shotwell replaces F-Spot in Ubuntu 10.10 App Line-up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BEC3EFC.8090905@yorba.org> > Per http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/ubuntu-1010-application-lineup-sees-no.html! > Which doesn't like to the original source unfortunately, but I don't > see them being wrong about this. Yes, this is great news for Shotwell! There's a more detailed announcement here: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/see-ya-f-spot-shotwell-comes-to-ubuntu.html adam From david.velazquez08 at gmail.com Thu May 13 19:09:52 2010 From: david.velazquez08 at gmail.com (David Velazquez) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 15:09:52 -0400 Subject: [Shotwell] Shotwell replaces F-Spot in Ubuntu 10.10 App Line-up In-Reply-To: <4BEC3EFC.8090905@yorba.org> References: <4BEC3EFC.8090905@yorba.org> Message-ID: Congratulations Shotwell! This is great news for the project! On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Adam Dingle wrote: > > Per > > http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/ubuntu-1010-application-lineup-sees-no.html > ! > > Which doesn't like to the original source unfortunately, but I don't > > see them being wrong about this. > > Yes, this is great news for Shotwell! There's a more detailed > announcement here: > > > http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/see-ya-f-spot-shotwell-comes-to-ubuntu.html > > adam > > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > From bengt at thuree.com Thu May 13 23:48:24 2010 From: bengt at thuree.com (Bengt Thuree) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:48:24 +1000 Subject: [Shotwell] Shotwell replaces F-Spot in Ubuntu 10.10 App Line-up In-Reply-To: References: <4BEC3EFC.8090905@yorba.org> Message-ID: <1273794504.2413.21.camel@lappis> Definitely congratulations :) And very good news for the project. Time to really look at which features F-Spot has which Shotwell currently do not have, and prioritize which one needs to be added.... Exiting times ahead... :) /Bengt On Thu, 2010-05-13 at 15:09 -0400, David Velazquez wrote: > Congratulations Shotwell! This is great news for the project! > > On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Adam Dingle wrote: > > > > Per > > > > http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/ubuntu-1010-application-lineup-sees-no.html > > ! > > > Which doesn't like to the original source unfortunately, but I don't > > > see them being wrong about this. > > > > Yes, this is great news for Shotwell! There's a more detailed > > announcement here: > > > > > > http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/see-ya-f-spot-shotwell-comes-to-ubuntu.html > > > > adam > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shotwell mailing list > > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > > > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > From dotancohen at gmail.com Fri May 14 02:38:32 2010 From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 05:38:32 +0300 Subject: [Shotwell] New shotwell user: Gnome accessibility Message-ID: Shotwell requires a double-click on thumbnails to open them in the main view window. I cannot double click, I have KDE set for single-click mode so that a single click on thumbnails in Digikam will open the photo in the viewer. Can such a feature be added to Shotwell? Is this dependant on Gnome? If so, here is the relevant feature request for Gnome: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=358731 Thanks. -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com From kenny3794 at gmail.com Fri May 14 07:06:38 2010 From: kenny3794 at gmail.com (Kenneth Jernigan) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 03:06:38 -0400 Subject: [Shotwell] Some Ideas of mine Message-ID: Hello, I've been playing with Shotwell for a few days and looking over the backend/code structure in my spare time. I hope to be able to take some time to experiment with the Vala programming language and perhaps toy with some of these ideas I have. However, I felt it best to share them and let the masses decide if my idea(s) are worth the time I spent typing... Thus, I send the following ideas: 1.) The undo feature is great - however, I notice it's only for the current session and is lost following a restart of the application. However, I noticed that in the database, all of the transforms are kept there. Thus, my first thought is that Shotwell should be able to undo ANY transform at ANY time (This could also allow re-arrange of the transforms without needing to redo them). An example... if I've taken time to perform a Red-Eye removal and performed an Enhance and then later decide to "un-enhance" the photo, I must now spend time re-performing the Red-Eye. (A "history" could be added to the Side Bar) 2.) The first thought led me to my second thought. The layout of the transforms in the database appear to me like they might be un-optimized. I'm not sure on all of the timing of Shotwell (mostly due to my lack of knowledge of the code -- still learning), however, it would seem to me that using text string processing would be using resources and limit the reasonable growth of the database. I would think, instead, that a separate table of transforms would be stored, capturing a different transform in each table entry. Then, the photo table would have a list of associated transform keys (in order). While the transform parameters in the table would still be text, the amount of text parsing could be reduced, or even offloaded into the transform function. I could even see this opening the door for plug-in style transform updates. However, I do not know the time the SQL database takes to query compared with string parsing, but I know database queries are already performed to read the Tags and Events, so I assume not too much time is lost. 3.) Specifically, I miss a few types of transforms: - the ability to create a sepia or B/W photo. I know this can be achieved with careful manipulation of the Adjust sliders, but predefined filters will improve user performance. - Soft Focus feature - great for hiding complexions and creating affects - Rotate (straighten) -- I saw a ticket for this already. - Sharpen -- sometimes photos come too soft/blurred. It'd be nice to fix without loading GIMP. - Faded borders -- one of my wife's favorites features when prepping a photo for print. - Flip -- rotate 180 + mirror. 4.) A struggle I've had with Shotwell is it's lack of multiple keyboard/mouse inputs. I will list here the keyboard/layout/mouse gestures I keep trying to use but can't: - When I've zoomed to a picture, I expect my scroll wheel to move me to the next -- but no luck. - When I press backspace from a picture page, I expect to return to the Photos page (legacy effect of internet explorer). Same is true for my mouse's browser back button. - When I have a red-eye tool on the screen, I try to get precise placement control with the arrow keys -- doesn't work. - I wish that the mirror, adjust date/time, and favorites where accessible without needing to click Photo first - I wish Extended Information wasn't a modal dialog, but instead a replacement/supplement for the Basic Information frame in the sidebar - When on the photo checkerboard page, I want CTRL + Mouse Wheel to adjust the zoom. - When looking at a photo - it'd be nice to have the option to zoom in without needing to crop the image, make window bigger, etc. (I understand optimization with libjpeg probably makes this difficult) - When adjusting crop, It would be nice if the CTRL + crop option worked similar to several other image editing apps (maintain current selections aspect ratio). - When looking at a photo, it feels as though there is a missing up arrow by the left/right arrows (to return to checkerboard page) 5.) It would be a nice feature to have captions for each picture that automatically upload to Picasa, Flickr, Facebook, etc, when the pictures are published. I believe this could easily be stored as a text field in the Photos Table. 6.) Support for multiple users. I have setup a single database shared (via links from the hidden folder to a shared folder with a user group to which all users have R/W access) between multiple logins (could be multiple PCs). I like to share the images, otherwise when she imports the pictures, I have to re-link them into my database to see them. However, with this setup, I'm cautious not to have both users access the database simultaneously. It would be ideal if Shotwell could handle this situation automatically with an option for shared database (/usr/share/shotwell/.shotwell/*) or individual database (~/.shotwell/*). For now, I have no other thoughts. However, I will continue to play with the code, time permitting, and continue using Shotwell. I'm glad to see that Shotwell is due to become the default photo handler in Ubuntu 10.10. I appologize if I've rambled - just consider these the thoughts of a humble embedded software engineer... Good night, Ken From bengt at thuree.com Fri May 14 09:44:38 2010 From: bengt at thuree.com (Bengt Thuree) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 19:44:38 +1000 Subject: [Shotwell] Some Ideas of mine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1273830278.2413.27.camel@lappis> Just want to second these ideas... If Shotwell manage to get these before 10.10 :) :) The main one I found lacking is tagging (normal, geo-tagging, location tagging), and rating. Face recognition would be great as well, but this is not a trivial thing. Hopefully I will be able to help with some of these, as well as all other features of Shotwell... at least I will be able to help out with testing for sure... Cheers Bengt On Fri, 2010-05-14 at 03:06 -0400, Kenneth Jernigan wrote: > Hello, > > I've been playing with Shotwell for a few days and looking over the > backend/code structure in my spare time. I hope to be able to take some > time to experiment with the Vala programming language and perhaps toy with > some of these ideas I have. However, I felt it best to share them and let > the masses decide if my idea(s) are worth the time I spent typing... Thus, > I send the following ideas: > > 1.) The undo feature is great - however, I notice it's only for the current > session and is lost following a restart of the application. However, I > noticed that in the database, all of the transforms are kept there. Thus, > my first thought is that Shotwell should be able to undo ANY transform at > ANY time (This could also allow re-arrange of the transforms without needing > to redo them). An example... if I've taken time to perform a Red-Eye > removal and performed an Enhance and then later decide to "un-enhance" the > photo, I must now spend time re-performing the Red-Eye. (A "history" could > be added to the Side Bar) > > 2.) The first thought led me to my second thought. The layout of the > transforms in the database appear to me like they might be un-optimized. > I'm not sure on all of the timing of Shotwell (mostly due to my lack of > knowledge of the code -- still learning), however, it would seem to me that > using text string processing would be using resources and limit the > reasonable growth of the database. I would think, instead, that a separate > table of transforms would be stored, capturing a different transform in each > table entry. Then, the photo table would have a list of associated > transform keys (in order). While the transform parameters in the table > would still be text, the amount of text parsing could be reduced, or even > offloaded into the transform function. I could even see this opening the > door for plug-in style transform updates. However, I do not know the time > the SQL database takes to query compared with string parsing, but I know > database queries are already performed to read the Tags and Events, so I > assume not too much time is lost. > > 3.) Specifically, I miss a few types of transforms: > > - the ability to create a sepia or B/W photo. I know this can > be achieved with careful manipulation of the Adjust sliders, but predefined > filters will improve user performance. > - Soft Focus feature - great for hiding complexions and creating affects > - Rotate (straighten) -- I saw a ticket for this already. > - Sharpen -- sometimes photos come too soft/blurred. It'd be nice to fix > without loading GIMP. > - Faded borders -- one of my wife's favorites features when prepping a > photo for print. > - Flip -- rotate 180 + mirror. > > > 4.) A struggle I've had with Shotwell is it's lack of multiple > keyboard/mouse inputs. I will list here the keyboard/layout/mouse gestures > I keep trying to use but can't: > > - When I've zoomed to a picture, I expect my scroll wheel to move me to > the next -- but no luck. > - When I press backspace from a picture page, I expect to return to the > Photos page (legacy effect of internet explorer). Same is true for my > mouse's browser back button. > - When I have a red-eye tool on the screen, I try to get precise > placement control with the arrow keys -- doesn't work. > - I wish that the mirror, adjust date/time, and favorites where > accessible without needing to click Photo first > - I wish Extended Information wasn't a modal dialog, but instead a > replacement/supplement for the Basic Information frame in the sidebar > - When on the photo checkerboard page, I want CTRL + Mouse Wheel to > adjust the zoom. > - When looking at a photo - it'd be nice to have the option to zoom in > without needing to crop the image, make window bigger, etc. (I understand > optimization with libjpeg probably makes this difficult) > - When adjusting crop, It would be nice if the CTRL + crop option worked > similar to several other image editing apps (maintain current selections > aspect ratio). > - When looking at a photo, it feels as though there is a missing up arrow > by the left/right arrows (to return to checkerboard page) > > 5.) It would be a nice feature to have captions for each picture that > automatically upload to Picasa, Flickr, Facebook, etc, when the pictures are > published. I believe this could easily be stored as a text field in the > Photos Table. > > 6.) Support for multiple users. I have setup a single database shared (via > links from the hidden folder to a shared folder with a user group to which > all users have R/W access) between multiple logins (could be multiple PCs). > I like to share the images, otherwise when she imports the pictures, I have > to re-link them into my database to see them. However, with this setup, I'm > cautious not to have both users access the database simultaneously. It > would be ideal if Shotwell could handle this situation automatically with an > option for shared database (/usr/share/shotwell/.shotwell/*) or individual > database (~/.shotwell/*). > > > For now, I have no other thoughts. However, I will continue to play with > the code, time permitting, and continue using Shotwell. I'm glad to see > that Shotwell is due to become the default photo handler in Ubuntu 10.10. I > appologize if I've rambled - just consider these the thoughts of a humble > embedded software engineer... > > Good night, > Ken > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > From caccolangrifata at gmail.com Fri May 14 10:15:16 2010 From: caccolangrifata at gmail.com (caccolangrifata) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 12:15:16 +0200 Subject: [Shotwell] Monitoring Folder Message-ID: <1273832116.2353.12.camel@mind> Hi! As we know, many poeple import photo in shotwell linking source file. After import, new photos will be added to the source folder, but not in shotwell. It would be nice if shotwell can monitor folders (like picasa) and link new photo file to the library. I don't find any ticket about this task, so if it exist sorry for duplicate :D -- caccolangrifata From mmassonnet at gmail.com Fri May 14 12:57:38 2010 From: mmassonnet at gmail.com (Mike Massonnet) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:57:38 +0200 Subject: [Shotwell] Shotwell replaces F-Spot in Ubuntu 10.10 App Line-up In-Reply-To: <4BEC3EFC.8090905@yorba.org> References: <4BEC3EFC.8090905@yorba.org> Message-ID: Hi, It's the first time I send mail on this list so coming a little from nowhere let me quickly introduce myself, I'm a user :-) 2010/5/13 Adam Dingle : > ?> Per > http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/ubuntu-1010-application-lineup-sees-no.html! > ?> ?Which doesn't like to the original source unfortunately, but I don't > ?> see them being wrong about this. > > Yes, this is great news for Shotwell! ?There's a more detailed > announcement here: > > http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/see-ya-f-spot-shotwell-comes-to-ubuntu.html Indeed, and I have no doubts about this project being a success. I like it very much, it's in fact the first time I do like importing photos. Before Shotwell I always copied photos manually to one place, well I tried some applications but never stuck with them but Shotwell is really doing this job clean and easy. What I do miss is support for videos, I still have to pick them up manually. However I can only play MPEG/2 videos perfectly, videos recorded in H264 with a very high definition would need to be converted (with e.g. avidemux) but at least I can backup them :> I'm using Shotwell 0.4.1 and the only ?wrong? bit I did notice is that by default the sort order is done by date/desc and I had recommend date/asc as in this way the browsing is chronological and the same as one takes the photos. Regards -- Mike From adam at yorba.org Fri May 14 14:33:32 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 07:33:32 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] New shotwell user: Gnome accessibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BED5F3C.40907@yorba.org> Dotan, There are two ways to open photos in Shotwell without double clicking today: 1. Simply press the Enter key. This will open a photo, just like pressing Enter opens a file in Nautilus. 2. As suggested in the Bugzilla thread you linked to, if you go to System->Preferences->Assistive Technologies->Mouse Accessibility, you can configure GNOME so that holding down the mouse button will trigger a double click after a user-configurable delay. I'm hopeful that one or the other of these techniques will work for you. adam On 05/13/2010 07:38 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote: > Shotwell requires a double-click on thumbnails to open them in the > main view window. I cannot double click, I have KDE set for > single-click mode so that a single click on thumbnails in Digikam will > open the photo in the viewer. Can such a feature be added to Shotwell? > Is this dependant on Gnome? If so, here is the relevant feature > request for Gnome: > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=358731 > > Thanks. > > From adam at yorba.org Fri May 14 14:42:58 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 07:42:58 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Shotwell replaces F-Spot in Ubuntu 10.10 App Line-up In-Reply-To: References: <4BEC3EFC.8090905@yorba.org> Message-ID: <4BED6172.2030905@yorba.org> On 05/14/2010 05:57 AM, Mike Massonnet wrote: > Hi, > > It's the first time I send mail on this list so coming a little from > nowhere let me quickly introduce myself, I'm a user :-) > Welcome! :) > > Indeed, and I have no doubts about this project being a success. I > like it very much, it's in fact the first time I do like importing > photos. Before Shotwell I always copied photos manually to one place, > well I tried some applications but never stuck with them but Shotwell > is really doing this job clean and easy. > > What I do miss is support for videos, I still have to pick them up > manually. However I can only play MPEG/2 videos perfectly, videos > recorded in H264 with a very high definition would need to be > converted (with e.g. avidemux) but at least I can backup them :> > Yes - we would like to add support for importing/playing videos at some point. This is http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/855 . This won't make the upcoming 0.6 release. Maybe later this year. > I'm using Shotwell 0.4.1 and the only ?wrong? bit I did notice is that > by default the sort order is done by date/desc and I had recommend > date/asc as in this way the browsing is chronological and the same as > one takes the photos. > Yes, the default photo sort order is by date, descending - we chose this because it matches the descending sort order of the Events tree in the sidebar. Fortunately if you prefer a different sort order it's easy to change. You should upgrade to 0.5! :) adam From adam at yorba.org Fri May 14 14:51:06 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 07:51:06 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Monitoring Folder In-Reply-To: <1273832116.2353.12.camel@mind> References: <1273832116.2353.12.camel@mind> Message-ID: <4BED635A.3080604@yorba.org> On 05/14/2010 03:15 AM, caccolangrifata wrote: > Hi! > As we know, many poeple import photo in shotwell linking source file. > After import, new photos will be added to the source folder, but not in > shotwell. It would be nice if shotwell can monitor folders (like picasa) > and link new photo file to the library. > > I don't find any ticket about this task, so if it exist sorry for > duplicate :D > Yes - we're interested in this too. Some other GNOME applications do this already: for example, Rhythmbox can watch the user's music library directory for new music files. And so it would be nice to have this capability for photos as well. We actually do have a ticket for this: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/374 . This will probably not be in the 0.6 release next month, but I think is a strong candidate for 0.7. adam From adam at yorba.org Fri May 14 17:22:18 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 10:22:18 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Some Ideas of mine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BED86CA.8040308@yorba.org> Kenneth, On 05/14/2010 12:06 AM, Kenneth Jernigan wrote: > Hello, > > I've been playing with Shotwell for a few days and looking over the > backend/code structure in my spare time. I hope to be able to take some > time to experiment with the Vala programming language and perhaps toy with > some of these ideas I have. However, I felt it best to share them and let > the masses decide if my idea(s) are worth the time I spent typing... Thus, > I send the following ideas: > > 1.) The undo feature is great - however, I notice it's only for the current > session and is lost following a restart of the application. However, I > noticed that in the database, all of the transforms are kept there. Thus, > my first thought is that Shotwell should be able to undo ANY transform at > ANY time (This could also allow re-arrange of the transforms without needing > to redo them). An example... if I've taken time to perform a Red-Eye > removal and performed an Enhance and then later decide to "un-enhance" the > photo, I must now spend time re-performing the Red-Eye. (A "history" could > be added to the Side Bar) > Shotwell already allows you to adjust or undo almost any transform at any time. To use the example you gave, suppose that you're performed an Enhance operation and then a Red-eye operation. The Enhance operation automatically sets the position of various sliders in the Adjust dialog - it does nothing more and nothing less. So if you want to undo an Enhance operation, you can simply open the Adjust dialog and press Reset. The autoenhance will be undone, but any red-eye operation you've performed will still be intact. Notice that I said /almost/ any transform in the paragraph above. Once you've restarted Shotwell, there's currently no way to undo a red-eye operation without reverting the photo to original. All other operations, though, including cropping, adjusting and enhancing can be independently adjusted at any time. This is all by design. Today, the order of operations in the Shotwell image pipeline is fixed. We could conceivably consider other transformation models, e.g. where each photo has a ordered history of operations which you can view in the sidebar and control independently. That would be a large change to Shotwell and is something we could conceivably undertake someday. I think the current model works well for most casual photo editing needs, though. > 2.) The first thought led me to my second thought. The layout of the > transforms in the database appear to me like they might be un-optimized. > I'm not sure on all of the timing of Shotwell (mostly due to my lack of > knowledge of the code -- still learning), however, it would seem to me that > using text string processing would be using resources and limit the > reasonable growth of the database. I would think, instead, that a separate > table of transforms would be stored, capturing a different transform in each > table entry. Then, the photo table would have a list of associated > transform keys (in order). While the transform parameters in the table > would still be text, the amount of text parsing could be reduced, or even > offloaded into the transform function. I could even see this opening the > door for plug-in style transform updates. However, I do not know the time > the SQL database takes to query compared with string parsing, but I know > database queries are already performed to read the Tags and Events, so I > assume not too much time is lost. > I'm wary of speculating which operations inside Shotwell are performance bottlenecks without running profiling tools or other performance measurements. I don't think we have any reason to believe that string processing is a bottleneck today, however. If there are specific operations in Shotwell that you think are too slow and which are bounded by CPU time, I'd encourage you to run a profiling tool (I suggest Sysprof - see http://sysprof.com/) to see where the bottleneck lies. After that we'd be happy to discuss possible optimization work. > 3.) Specifically, I miss a few types of transforms: > > - the ability to create a sepia or B/W photo. I know this can > be achieved with careful manipulation of the Adjust sliders, but predefined > filters will improve user performance. > A reasonable idea. I've ticketed this at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1913 . > - Soft Focus feature - great for hiding complexions and creating affects > This would be another nice feature. Ticketed at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1916 . > - Rotate (straighten) -- I saw a ticket for this already. > Right - this is http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/61 (currently the lowest-numbered outstanding Shotwell ticket, by the way). > - Sharpen -- sometimes photos come too soft/blurred. It'd be nice to fix > without loading GIMP. > Right. We have a ticket for this at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/690 . > - Faded borders -- one of my wife's favorites features when prepping a > photo for print. > Another reasonable idea. I've ticketed this at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1914 . > - Flip -- rotate 180 + mirror. > This shouldn't be needed all the time, but could occasionally be useful. I've created a ticket at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1915 . > > 4.) A struggle I've had with Shotwell is it's lack of multiple > keyboard/mouse inputs. I will list here the keyboard/layout/mouse gestures > I keep trying to use but can't: > > - When I've zoomed to a picture, I expect my scroll wheel to move me to > the next -- but no luck. > In the trunk build, the scroll wheel zooms into a picture - this is one of our major new features for 0.6. I think we'll continue to use the scroll wheel for this rather than for advancing between pictures, for consistency with other GNOME applications (e.g. Eye of GNOME) which also use the scroll wheel for zooming. > - When I press backspace from a picture page, I expect to return to the > Photos page (legacy effect of internet explorer). We've had conflicting user requests for the Backspace key: some people want it to move to the previous photo (this is currently implemented in trunk), and others like you want it to jump back a level. (By the way, I hope you realize that the Escape key does jump back a level, i.e. to the Photos view.) There is precedent for both uses of Backspace in other GNOME applications: in Nautilus it jumps back a level (to the containing directory) but in Eye of GNOME it moves to the previous photo. I personally don't have a strong opinion about this since there are already other keys (Escape and left arrow) for each of these operations. > Same is true for my > mouse's browser back button. > It would be nice to support the mouse's back button. I've ticketed this at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1917 . > - When I have a red-eye tool on the screen, I try to get precise > placement control with the arrow keys -- doesn't work. > Right. This is http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1144 . > - I wish that the mirror, adjust date/time, and favorites where > accessible without needing to click Photo first > We're not convinced that the Mirror and Adjust Date/Time commands are commonly enough used to deserve keyboard shortcuts out of the box. If you use these commands often, you can assign your own keyboard shortcuts to them by enabling the can_change_accels GConf key; see e.g. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1473788 to learn more about how. > - I wish Extended Information wasn't a modal dialog, but instead a > replacement/supplement for the Basic Information frame in the sidebar > We've thought about this too. I've ticketed this at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1918 . > - When on the photo checkerboard page, I want CTRL + Mouse Wheel to > adjust the zoom. > An interesting idea. I'm not aware of precedent for this in any other GNOME application, but it might be convenient. Ticketed at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1919 . > - When looking at a photo - it'd be nice to have the option to zoom in > without needing to crop the image, make window bigger, etc. (I understand > optimization with libjpeg probably makes this difficult) > This is already implemented in the trunk, and will be in the 0.6 release. > - When adjusting crop, It would be nice if the CTRL + crop option worked > similar to several other image editing apps (maintain current selections > aspect ratio). > I'm not sure quite what you want here. When cropping in Shotwell today, you can choose the Original Size constraint to constrain the crop rectangle to the photo's original aspect ratio. Are you suggesting that if the user holds down the Control key while invoking the Crop tool, we should automatically select this constraint? Or are you suggesting that whenever the user holds down the Control key while resizing the crop rectangle, the rectangle's aspect ratio should remain fixed? If the latter, can you briefly explain a use case for this? > - When looking at a photo, it feels as though there is a missing up arrow > by the left/right arrows (to return to checkerboard page) > It's true that in Nautilus Alt+up arrow will return to the containing page. I'm not aware of any GNOME application which would act like that on a simple up arrow press, though. Given that we already have a key for that (Escape) I'm not sure we need to add this one too. > 5.) It would be a nice feature to have captions for each picture that > automatically upload to Picasa, Flickr, Facebook, etc, when the pictures are > published. I believe this could easily be stored as a text field in the > Photos Table. > In the trunk build of Shotwell you can already edit a caption for each picture. We don't yet automatically upload these to photo-sharing sites, but we have a ticket for that (http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1326) which we hope to implement before long. > 6.) Support for multiple users. I have setup a single database shared (via > links from the hidden folder to a shared folder with a user group to which > all users have R/W access) between multiple logins (could be multiple PCs). > I like to share the images, otherwise when she imports the pictures, I have > to re-link them into my database to see them. However, with this setup, I'm > cautious not to have both users access the database simultaneously. It > would be ideal if Shotwell could handle this situation automatically with an > option for shared database (/usr/share/shotwell/.shotwell/*) or individual > database (~/.shotwell/*). > We're also interested in extending Shotwell to sync/share photos between users, both on a local network (e.g. within a family) and globally. This probably won't happen real soon, but rest assured that this is part of our longer-term plans. > > For now, I have no other thoughts. However, I will continue to play with > the code, time permitting, and continue using Shotwell. I'm glad to see > that Shotwell is due to become the default photo handler in Ubuntu 10.10. I > appologize if I've rambled - just consider these the thoughts of a humble > embedded software engineer... > Thanks for all your feedback and ideas! If you have more questions based on your exploration of the Shotwell code then don't hesitate to get in touch again. adam From adam at yorba.org Fri May 14 18:11:43 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 11:11:43 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] suggestions In-Reply-To: <4BE31024.7040000@andrei.myip.org> References: <4BE2F226.30303@andrei.myip.org> <4BE31024.7040000@andrei.myip.org> Message-ID: <4BED925F.3040004@yorba.org> Florin, On 05/06/2010 11:53 AM, Florin Andrei wrote: > > Speaking of which: Brightness and Contrast? Please? :-) > We have a ticket for a contrast slider (http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/624). We're actually not in a huge hurry to implement brightness, because we think that for most casual uses the exposure slider will be a better choice ( brightness works additively and can turn black to gray, whereas exposure is multiplicative). > Also, some kind of markers or a scale or something for the sliders on > the Adjust tab? Even if it's a fake percentage point scale it's better > than nothing. Of course, reading the temperature from EXIF and placing > the Temperature slider in the right point automatically would be very > cool. ;-) > A reasonable suggestion. I've ticketed this at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1920 . adam From adam at yorba.org Fri May 14 22:38:43 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 15:38:43 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Slideshow Summer Project In-Reply-To: <1273186078.4770.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1273186078.4770.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4BEDD0F3.8030203@yorba.org> Paul, On 05/06/2010 03:47 PM, Paul Lange wrote: > After some time diving through bugzilla I now want to present my > proposal for a summer project with the goal of improving shotwells > slideshow mode. > We agree that improving Shotwell's slideshow capabilities would be a great summer project. We've now added Shotwell to the ideas page for Fedora Summer Coding 2010 at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_2010_ideas . Since you're interested in this project, the next step is for you to submit an application to Fedora by May 20th as described on the main Summer Coding page at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_2010 . Of course we hope that Fedora will accept and fund this project, but that is beyond Yorba's control - we'll find out by the end of this month. By the way, the other summer project we've listed on our idea page is improving printing in Shotwell, which is currently very basic (today we can only print one photo per page, always on a plain white background). If there are any students on this mailing list interested in working on that project we'd encourage them to apply to Fedora as well. > My idea and proposal is to use clutter [1] as the underlying technology. > We also believe that using Clutter for slideshow transitions makes sense. If you have more thoughts about how to implement transitions in Shotwell we'd be happy to discuss more. cheers adam From bengt.thuree at gmail.com Sat May 15 08:55:55 2010 From: bengt.thuree at gmail.com (Bengt Thuree) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 18:55:55 +1000 Subject: [Shotwell] Consider using Taglist to handle metadata? Message-ID: <1273913755.2427.9.camel@lappis> Hi Just to inform you guys that F-Spot is starting a push to get Taglib to handle all the metadata. Perhaps this is something for Shotwell as well? https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618683 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618682 http://developer.kde.org/~wheeler/taglib.html http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/TagLib_Sharp /Bengt From bjoern at gruenings.eu Sat May 15 13:47:09 2010 From: bjoern at gruenings.eu (bjoern at gruenings.eu) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 15:47:09 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Shotwell] Consider using Taglist to handle metadata? In-Reply-To: <1273913755.2427.9.camel@lappis> References: <1273913755.2427.9.camel@lappis> Message-ID: <51875.94.222.216.181.1273931229.squirrel@mail.gruenings.eu> Regarding Metatdata and the DB-related questions. Are there any plans to use tracker as Database storage? cheers, bjoern > Hi > > Just to inform you guys that F-Spot is starting a push to get Taglib to > handle all the metadata. > > Perhaps this is something for Shotwell as well? > > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618683 > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618682 > > http://developer.kde.org/~wheeler/taglib.html > http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/TagLib_Sharp > > > /Bengt > > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > From adam at yorba.org Sat May 15 14:24:21 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 07:24:21 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Consider using Taglist to handle metadata? In-Reply-To: <1273913755.2427.9.camel@lappis> References: <1273913755.2427.9.camel@lappis> Message-ID: On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 1:55 AM, Bengt Thuree wrote: > Hi > > Just to inform you guys that F-Spot is starting a push to get Taglib to > handle all the metadata. > > Perhaps this is something for Shotwell as well? > The C-based TagLib library (http://developer.kde.org/~wheeler/taglib.html) handles audio metadata, not photo metadata (EXIF/IPTC/XMP), so it wouldn't be useful for Shotwell. It appears that TagLib# is a .NET/Mono port of TagLib and that the TagLib# developers may be adding support for photo metadata. Of course TagLib# is not an option for Shotwell, which has no dependency on Mono. The trunk build of Shotwell uses libexiv2 to read photo metadata and it's working well, so I see no reason to consider switching to something else. adam From adam at yorba.org Sat May 15 14:49:44 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 07:49:44 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Consider using Taglist to handle metadata? In-Reply-To: <51875.94.222.216.181.1273931229.squirrel@mail.gruenings.eu> References: <1273913755.2427.9.camel@lappis> <51875.94.222.216.181.1273931229.squirrel@mail.gruenings.eu> Message-ID: On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 6:47 AM, wrote: > Regarding Metatdata and the DB-related questions. > Are there any plans to use tracker as Database storage? > This might mean either of two things: 1. Integrate with Tracker so that any photo captions, keywords or descriptions entered in Shotwell are searchable via Tracker if the user has Tracker installed. 2. Use Tracker rather than SQLite for storing photo captions/keywords (and, perhaps, other state such as the edits made to each photo) in Shotwell. I think that (1) would be useful, and we have a ticket for this ( http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1890). In fact, (1) might come entirely for free if we decide to write out photo metadata to photo files on the fly, which is a possibility the team is currently considering (perhaps as a user option like in F-Spot). Then if Tracker is running it can index the photo metadata and it will be searchable. (2) would mean that Shotwell would depend on Tracker: it would only be possible to use Shotwell if Tracker were already running. We're reluctant to require this dependency, as some major distributions (e.g. Ubuntu) do not install Tracker by default and we want to be part of the default install. It's also not clear what additional benefits (2) would have over (1) to the user, so this is not under consideration at this time. adam From bengt at thuree.com Sat May 15 15:15:15 2010 From: bengt at thuree.com (Bengt Thuree) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 01:15:15 +1000 Subject: [Shotwell] Consider using Taglist to handle metadata? In-Reply-To: References: <1273913755.2427.9.camel@lappis> Message-ID: <1273936515.2427.31.camel@lappis> On Sat, 2010-05-15 at 07:24 -0700, Adam Dingle wrote: > On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 1:55 AM, Bengt Thuree > wrote: > Hi > > Just to inform you guys that F-Spot is starting a push to get > Taglib to > handle all the metadata. > > Perhaps this is something for Shotwell as well? > > The C-based TagLib library > (http://developer.kde.org/~wheeler/taglib.html) handles audio > metadata, not photo metadata (EXIF/IPTC/XMP), so it wouldn't be useful > for Shotwell. It appears that TagLib# is a .NET/Mono port of TagLib > and that the TagLib# developers may be adding support for photo > metadata. Of course TagLib# is not an option for Shotwell, which has > no dependency on Mono. The trunk build of Shotwell uses libexiv2 to > read photo metadata and it's working well, so I see no reason to > consider switching to something else. Just some small thoughts. F-Spot will try to get taglib to handle metadata in images (as per one of the bugzilla notes). Right now taglib only handles audio tags, but perhaps soon... Worth considering I thought... :) /Bengt From bjoern at gruenings.eu Sat May 15 18:34:50 2010 From: bjoern at gruenings.eu (bjoern at gruenings.eu) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 20:34:50 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Shotwell] Consider using Taglist to handle metadata? In-Reply-To: References: <1273913755.2427.9.camel@lappis> <51875.94.222.216.181.1273931229.squirrel@mail.gruenings.eu> Message-ID: <57521.94.222.216.181.1273948490.squirrel@mail.gruenings.eu> Hi Adam, thank you for your answer. > 1. Integrate with Tracker so that any photo captions, keywords or > descriptions entered in Shotwell are searchable via Tracker if the user > has > Tracker installed. > > 2. Use Tracker rather than SQLite for storing photo captions/keywords > (and, > perhaps, other state such as the edits made to each photo) in Shotwell. > > I think that (1) would be useful, and we have a ticket for this ( > http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1890). In fact, (1) might come entirely for > free if we decide to write out photo metadata to photo files on the fly, > which is a possibility the team is currently considering (perhaps as a > user > option like in F-Spot). Then if Tracker is running it can index the photo > metadata and it will be searchable. > > (2) would mean that Shotwell would depend on Tracker: it would only be > possible to use Shotwell if Tracker were already running. We're reluctant > to require this dependency, as some major distributions (e.g. Ubuntu) do > not > install Tracker by default and we want to be part of the default install. > It's also not clear what additional benefits (2) would have over (1) to > the > user, so this is not under consideration at this time. (2) would bring several advantages over (1) imho. - You get tagging for free. Photos tagged in gnome-shell or nautilus will share the same tags as in shotwell, they are reachable from everywhere. - You get write-back support for free. - Photos from online archives (flickr, facebook at al) indexed with metadata - integration with contacts (telepathy) - you get a few tickets closed as monitoring photo dir - metadata extraction for free and a common code base I don't understand why depend on tracker is such a big no go. Tracker does not need to be running all the time. You can monitor only one dir and disable tracker for the rest of the Desktop (you still get the taging from every application feature). In these case tracker is just an dependency as sqlite (btw. tracker uses sqlite). Ubuntu ships tracker by default since a few years[1] (unfortunatly the old 0.6 branch, these branch has nothing in todo with the 0.8/0.9 branch). Tracker is havily used in Meego and will be part of gnome-shell, is also an external dependency from gnome (since 2.30). kind regards, Bjoern [1] it was for Intrepid Ibex and Hardy Heron, since Jaunty Jackalope its disabled, because 0.8 came to late > adam > From dotancohen at gmail.com Mon May 17 18:21:58 2010 From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 21:21:58 +0300 Subject: [Shotwell] New shotwell user: Gnome accessibility In-Reply-To: <4BED5F3C.40907@yorba.org> References: <4BED5F3C.40907@yorba.org> Message-ID: Sorry for the late reply, Adam. On 14 May 2010 17:33, Adam Dingle wrote: > There are two ways to open photos in Shotwell without double clicking today: > > 1. Simply press the Enter key. ?This will open a photo, just like > pressing Enter opens a file in Nautilus. > That is a decent workaround, but it does not address the issue. I do personally like keyboard navigation, in fact I may be using the software that way mostly. > 2. As suggested in the Bugzilla thread you linked to, if you go to > System->Preferences->Assistive Technologies->Mouse Accessibility, you > can configure GNOME so that holding down the mouse button will trigger a > double click after a user-configurable delay. > No, that is worse than double-clicking! Thanks. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com From mahfiaz at gmail.com Mon May 17 20:08:10 2010 From: mahfiaz at gmail.com (Mattias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=F5ldaru?=) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 23:08:10 +0300 Subject: [Shotwell] New shotwell user: Gnome accessibility In-Reply-To: References: <4BED5F3C.40907@yorba.org> Message-ID: <1274126890.21104.65.camel@antiloop> ?hel kenal p?eval, E, 2010-05-17 kell 21:21, kirjutas Dotan Cohen: > Sorry for the late reply, Adam. > > > On 14 May 2010 17:33, Adam Dingle wrote: > > There are two ways to open photos in Shotwell without double clicking today: > > > > 1. Simply press the Enter key. This will open a photo, just like > > pressing Enter opens a file in Nautilus. > > > > That is a decent workaround, but it does not address the issue. I do > personally like keyboard navigation, in fact I may be using the > software that way mostly. > > > > 2. As suggested in the Bugzilla thread you linked to, if you go to > > System->Preferences->Assistive Technologies->Mouse Accessibility, you > > can configure GNOME so that holding down the mouse button will trigger a > > double click after a user-configurable delay. > > > > No, that is worse than double-clicking! > > Thanks. > Thank you for the link to gnome bugzilla, this is all reasonable. Although implementing this would at first need the correct gconf key and mouse properties to change that. There is not much point in making this setting application wise. Have you brought this idea up in Gnome accessibility team? They would probably give this bug more love. BTW, have you seen some of these cute mouses with special double-click button, marked with 2?. Over here in Estonia these are sold to older people with less computer experience, and these are really handy. http://www.gadgets-reviews.com/index.php?page=post&id=154 Although this does not fix the issue, it may be a handy gadget. I sometimes wish I had one of these. Mattias From dotancohen at gmail.com Mon May 17 20:14:29 2010 From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 23:14:29 +0300 Subject: [Shotwell] New shotwell user: Gnome accessibility In-Reply-To: <1274126890.21104.65.camel@antiloop> References: <4BED5F3C.40907@yorba.org> <1274126890.21104.65.camel@antiloop> Message-ID: > Thank you for the link to gnome bugzilla, this is all reasonable. > Although implementing this would at first need the correct gconf key and > mouse properties to change that. There is not much point in making this > setting application wise. > I do agree that the issue should be handled in Gnome, not the individual apps. Being that, Shotwell is my primary Gnome app and I would be content to remain in KDE and use Shotwell there should this be available directly in Shotwell. In fact, this issue has kept our household on Digikam for years, instead of moving (back) to F-Spot. > Have you brought this idea up in Gnome accessibility team? They would > probably give this bug more love. > Yes, they suggested that I bring it up on the gtk-dev list, which I got around to doing just today. > BTW, have you seen some of these cute mouses with special double-click > button, marked with 2?. Over here in Estonia these are sold to older > people with less computer experience, and these are really handy. > http://www.gadgets-reviews.com/index.php?page=post&id=154 > Although this does not fix the issue, it may be a handy gadget. I > sometimes wish I had one of these. > I have used such a mouse. I think that three buttons is already too much, I am not about to stick a forth on there! I'd actually love to play with a single-buttoned rodent like the fruit company has. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com From gnarf at freenet.de Tue May 18 10:00:28 2010 From: gnarf at freenet.de (Georg Regner) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 12:00:28 +0200 Subject: [Shotwell] Feature ideas - Refresh Database and some Import/Export extensions Message-ID: <1274176828.8603.25.camel@gre4200> Hi, after reading about Shotwell being default photo manager in Ubuntu 10.10, I quickly installed 0.5 from the Ubuntu 10.04 repo and played around a bit. Really liked it, very intuitive and fast, but some bits I miss (Please forgive me if I was just too stupid to find them, or missed them in the mailing list archives, only had a quick look) - Re-scan archives. When moving/deleting the original pictures, the database thumbnails persist, and Shotwell does not like to re-import the full size files. A "database refresh" feature would be nice - A batch import/rename for all media that may sit on a camera SD card, including e.g. video files. Maybe using a filename/extension filter like .jpg, .avi, .mov etc. Get them all from anywhere on the SD card, rename them to a simple sortable format (YYYYMMDDHH24MISS.EXT, like renrot. Maybe include renrot in the import process?) before storing in the library folder Another idea, not something missing but maybe for later: A customizable file export or even sync tool for those DLNA enabled NAS boxes that become increasingly common. Something like "copy selected files from Shotwell library to NAS' photo/video folder if not already there, generate a YYYYMM folder for untagged files and a YYYYMM-EventName folder for tagged files" (A folder per day is a bit too much when navigating with a IR remote). Maybe via simple ftp or another protocol that works on all those NAS devices. Cheers, Georg From adam at yorba.org Tue May 18 14:59:51 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 07:59:51 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Feature ideas - Refresh Database and some Import/Export extensions In-Reply-To: <1274176828.8603.25.camel@gre4200> References: <1274176828.8603.25.camel@gre4200> Message-ID: <4BF2AB67.9000705@yorba.org> On 05/18/2010 03:00 AM, Georg Regner wrote: > Hi, > > after reading about Shotwell being default photo manager in Ubuntu > 10.10, I quickly installed 0.5 from the Ubuntu 10.04 repo and played > around a bit. Really liked it, very intuitive and fast, Thanks! > but some bits I > miss (Please forgive me if I was just too stupid to find them, or missed > them in the mailing list archives, only had a quick look) > > - Re-scan archives. When moving/deleting the original pictures, the > database thumbnails persist, and Shotwell does not like to re-import the > full size files. A "database refresh" feature would be nice > I agree: this would be useful. I've recently created a ticket for this at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1941 . > - A batch import/rename for all media that may sit on a camera SD card, > including e.g. video files. Maybe using a filename/extension filter > like .jpg, .avi, .mov etc. Get them all from anywhere on the SD card, > rename them to a simple sortable format (YYYYMMDDHH24MISS.EXT, like > renrot. Maybe include renrot in the import process?) before storing in > the library folder > As you probably know, Shotwell can import photos (but not yet videos; that's http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/855) from SD cards today. We can't yet rename photos on import, but that might be nice, so I've created a ticket for that at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1942 . > Another idea, not something missing but maybe for later: > A customizable file export or even sync tool for those DLNA enabled NAS > boxes that become increasingly common. Something like "copy selected > files from Shotwell library to NAS' photo/video folder if not already > there, generate a YYYYMM folder for untagged files and a > YYYYMM-EventName folder for tagged files" (A folder > per day is a bit too much when navigating with a IR remote). Maybe via > simple ftp or another protocol that works on all those NAS devices. > Syncing/sharing the library between machines (http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1292) is on the roadmap for Shotwell, but will probably not happen in the next couple of releases. We haven't yet decided exactly how this work, but I agree it might be nice to be able to sync to network storage boxes via FTP or other protocols. Thanks for your suggestions! adam From kushaldas at gmail.com Fri May 21 09:24:44 2010 From: kushaldas at gmail.com (Kushal Das) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 14:54:44 +0530 Subject: [Shotwell] Which package provides libraw/libraw.h in Fedora 13 ? Message-ID: Hi, I am trying to build shotwell from trunk in a Fedora 13 box, I am missing libraw headers it seems. cc -c `pkg-config --cflags atk gdk-2.0 gee-1.0 gtk+-2.0 libexif sqlite3 gexiv2 gconf-2.0 libgphoto2 libsoup-2.4 libxml-2.0 unique-1.0 webkit-1.0 libusb gudev-1.0 dbus-glib-1 gthread-2.0` -I./vapi -D_PREFIX='"/usr"' -D_VERSION='"0.5.1+trunk"' -DGETTEXT_PACKAGE='"shotwell"' -D_LANG_SUPPORT_DIR='"/usr/share/locale"' -O2 -g -pipe -fPIC -DG_UDEV_API_IS_SUBJECT_TO_CHANGE -o src/GRaw.o src/GRaw.c src/GRaw.c:14:27: error: libraw/libraw.h: No such file or directory Any clue which package provides that ? Kushal -- http://fedoraproject.org http://kushaldas.in From bengt at thuree.com Fri May 21 09:46:18 2010 From: bengt at thuree.com (Bengt Thuree) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 19:46:18 +1000 Subject: [Shotwell] Which package provides libraw/libraw.h in Fedora 13 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1274435178.14687.3.camel@lappis> Hi >From Shotwell's web site (http://yorba.org/shotwell/install/) -- Additionally dependencies required when building from trunk: libraw (http://www.libraw.org/download#stable) and gexiv2 (which depends on Exiv2 0.19). -- /Bengt On Fri, 2010-05-21 at 14:54 +0530, Kushal Das wrote: > Hi, > I am trying to build shotwell from trunk in a Fedora 13 box, I am > missing libraw headers it seems. > > cc -c `pkg-config --cflags atk gdk-2.0 gee-1.0 gtk+-2.0 libexif > sqlite3 gexiv2 gconf-2.0 libgphoto2 libsoup-2.4 libxml-2.0 unique-1.0 > webkit-1.0 libusb gudev-1.0 dbus-glib-1 gthread-2.0` -I./vapi > -D_PREFIX='"/usr"' -D_VERSION='"0.5.1+trunk"' > -DGETTEXT_PACKAGE='"shotwell"' > -D_LANG_SUPPORT_DIR='"/usr/share/locale"' -O2 -g -pipe -fPIC > -DG_UDEV_API_IS_SUBJECT_TO_CHANGE -o src/GRaw.o src/GRaw.c > src/GRaw.c:14:27: error: libraw/libraw.h: No such file or directory > > > Any clue which package provides that ? > > > Kushal -- With Regards Bengt Thuree bengt at thuree.com From theirishkiwi at gmail.com Sun May 23 12:35:37 2010 From: theirishkiwi at gmail.com (Chris Lindsay) Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 13:35:37 +0100 Subject: [Shotwell] Shotwell - Thoughts on work-flow and extensions Message-ID: Hi, Let me introduce myself, my name is Chris Lindsay and I would class myself as an Enthusiast Photographer. I have been struggling for sometime now to establish an efficient streamlined work-flow on Linux using available applications. I have tried F-spot, which I gave up on in frustration, Picasa which was ok but was very slow and would never integrate with other Linux apps in my work-flow. I returned to F-spot just few days ago and was initially impressed with how it had progressed in the last year. I finally felt I had discovered a usable app for a more streamlines workflow and navigation of my images in their various revisions easily. Thsi was short lived as I was quickly reminded of why I left F-spot, with very slow importing of my images, constant crashes, Database problems etc. Ok, sorry for my longish lead in, but yesterday I read Shotwell would replace F-spot on Ubuntu 10.10. So I start to investigate Shotwell again after dismissing due to a lack of Raw support, which I see is coming in 0.6! I am impressed with Shotwell and with Raw support and the other additions in the pipeline will be a very usable photo manager. I would like to provide my input on what I would like to see in Shotwell, with the focus on integratoin of Shitwell into other photo related apps for an efficent streamlined workflow, taking the user from Uploading images for your camera, to publishing processed and edited images to web based galleries etc. My Workflow using Shotwell... 1, A days photographing in RAW + JPG 2, Upload images from camera via Shotwell - Tag images - define naming convention with date/ location etc. (extension) - allow copies to be saved to external HD at same time for backup (extension) 3, Once imported images can be edited (non-destructively) within Shotwell or in Raw processing app (preferably if choice not tying user into a specific app, through settings, this could also be added as an extension) 4, Edited externally in for example Gimp. In this case a copy of image would be opened in external edit to preserve original. Edited image saved back into Shotwell as a revision of original. 5, Finally edited images can be published to social networking sites, web based galleries or emailed etc. These are of course just my thoughts, but I believe this type of functionally would allow Shotwell to do what it does well, without trying to do everything poorly. As much as the majority of people only want an application which stores their images for easy review, basic edited and enhancements before publishing to their favourite social networking site or web based gallery. The addition of various more advance features in the form of extensions would allow advanced or users to still use and enjoy Shotwell as part of their work-flow. I look forward to everyone thoughts and I am very keen to help the project in what ever way I can. I am not a programmer, but can test and write or what ever else I have time for. Chris Lindsay -- Chris From adam at yorba.org Mon May 24 15:16:36 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 08:16:36 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Shotwell - Thoughts on work-flow and extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BFA9854.2050109@yorba.org> On 05/23/2010 05:35 AM, Chris Lindsay wrote: > Hi, > Let me introduce myself, my name is Chris Lindsay and I would class > myself as an Enthusiast Photographer. > Great - we like enthusiasts. :) > Ok, sorry for my longish lead in, but yesterday I read Shotwell would > replace F-spot on Ubuntu 10.10. So I start to investigate Shotwell > again after dismissing due to a lack of Raw support, which I see is > coming in 0.6! > > I am impressed with Shotwell and with Raw support and the other > additions in the pipeline will be a very usable photo manager. > Thanks! I'll warn you now that the RAW support in 0.6 will be somewhat limited. In particular, you mentioned that you shoot RAW+JPEG. In Shotwell 0.6, if you import RAW and JPEG files from a camera together they will simply appear side by side as two separate photos in your library. We hope to be able to treat RAW+JPEG pairs as a single photo before long (see http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1772 ) but I currently believe that feature will not be in 0.6. > My Workflow using Shotwell... > > 1, A days photographing in RAW + JPG > 2, Upload images from camera via Shotwell > - Tag images > - define naming convention with date/ location etc. (extension) > Right; this is http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1942 . > - allow copies to be saved to external HD at same time for backup > (extension) > A reasonable idea; I've created a ticket for this at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1963 . > 3, Once imported images can be edited (non-destructively) within > Shotwell or in Raw processing app (preferably if choice not tying user > into a specific app, through settings, this could also be added as an > extension) > 4, Edited externally in for example Gimp. In this case a copy of image > would be opened in external edit to preserve original. Edited image > saved back into Shotwell as a revision of original. > Right. Shotwell 0.6 will allow you to open photos in an external editor. We're working on implementing this now. You'll be able to specify both an external JPEG editor (e.g. Gimp) and also an external RAW editor (e.g. UFRaw) to use for editing photos. > 5, Finally edited images can be published to social networking sites, > web based galleries or emailed etc. > > These are of course just my thoughts, but I believe this type of > functionally would allow Shotwell to do what it does well, without > trying to do everything poorly. As much as the majority of people only > want an application which stores their images for easy review, basic > edited and enhancements before publishing to their favourite social > networking site or web based gallery. The addition of various more > advance features in the form of extensions would allow advanced or > users to still use and enjoy Shotwell as part of their work-flow. > Thanks again for the feedback. We really appreciate hearing about people's entire workflow and I hope we can continue to improve Shotwell to make it work well for you and other enthusiasts. :) adam From brunogirin at gmail.com Mon May 24 20:23:55 2010 From: brunogirin at gmail.com (Bruno Girin) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 21:23:55 +0100 Subject: [Shotwell] Shotwell - Thoughts on work-flow and extensions In-Reply-To: <4BFA9854.2050109@yorba.org> References: <4BFA9854.2050109@yorba.org> Message-ID: <1274732635.1591.239.camel@nuuk> On Mon, 2010-05-24 at 08:16 -0700, Adam Dingle wrote: > On 05/23/2010 05:35 AM, Chris Lindsay wrote: > > Hi, > > Let me introduce myself, my name is Chris Lindsay and I would class > > myself as an Enthusiast Photographer. > > > > Great - we like enthusiasts. :) Cool, I'll introduce myself too :-) My name is Bruno Girin and I am an amateur photographer and experienced Java developer and architect. I got interested in Shotwell for the same reason as Chris, namely that Ubuntu 10.10 Maverick is planning to replace F-Spot with Shotwell. So far, I registered on Trac, downloaded the trunk SVN and built Shotwell from source. I haven't really had the opportunity to try it out but I had a look through the source code to see what Vala looked like and how complex it was. And I must say that I am pleasantly surprised: coming from a Java background, Vala seems very easy to follow and the Shotwell source code is one of the clearest I've seen in a long time. I would be very interested in contributing to Shotwell development first by helping fix bugs and hopefully later contributing new features. What easy bugs would people recommend I look at to get started? I am also a member of the Ubuntu BugSquad team and am willing to help with the interaction between Ubuntu and Shotwell in triaging and resolving bugs. > > > Ok, sorry for my longish lead in, but yesterday I read Shotwell would > > replace F-spot on Ubuntu 10.10. So I start to investigate Shotwell > > again after dismissing due to a lack of Raw support, which I see is > > coming in 0.6! > > > > I am impressed with Shotwell and with Raw support and the other > > additions in the pipeline will be a very usable photo manager. > > > > Thanks! I'll warn you now that the RAW support in 0.6 will be somewhat > limited. In particular, you mentioned that you shoot RAW+JPEG. In > Shotwell 0.6, if you import RAW and JPEG files from a camera together > they will simply appear side by side as two separate photos in your > library. We hope to be able to treat RAW+JPEG pairs as a single photo > before long (see http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1772 ) but I currently > believe that feature will not be in 0.6. > > > My Workflow using Shotwell... > > > > 1, A days photographing in RAW + JPG > > 2, Upload images from camera via Shotwell > > - Tag images > > - define naming convention with date/ location etc. (extension) > > > > Right; this is http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1942 . > > > - allow copies to be saved to external HD at same time for backup > > (extension) > > > > A reasonable idea; I've created a ticket for this at > http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1963 . > > > 3, Once imported images can be edited (non-destructively) within > > Shotwell or in Raw processing app (preferably if choice not tying user > > into a specific app, through settings, this could also be added as an > > extension) > > 4, Edited externally in for example Gimp. In this case a copy of image > > would be opened in external edit to preserve original. Edited image > > saved back into Shotwell as a revision of original. > > > > Right. Shotwell 0.6 will allow you to open photos in an external > editor. We're working on implementing this now. You'll be able to > specify both an external JPEG editor (e.g. Gimp) and also an external > RAW editor (e.g. UFRaw) to use for editing photos. > > > 5, Finally edited images can be published to social networking sites, > > web based galleries or emailed etc. > > > > These are of course just my thoughts, but I believe this type of > > functionally would allow Shotwell to do what it does well, without > > trying to do everything poorly. As much as the majority of people only > > want an application which stores their images for easy review, basic > > edited and enhancements before publishing to their favourite social > > networking site or web based gallery. The addition of various more > > advance features in the form of extensions would allow advanced or > > users to still use and enjoy Shotwell as part of their work-flow. > > > > Thanks again for the feedback. We really appreciate hearing about > people's entire workflow and I hope we can continue to improve Shotwell > to make it work well for you and other enthusiasts. :) I have a very similar workflow: 1. Take pictures (mostly JPEG, sometimes RAW as well); 2. Connect the camera and load pictures onto my laptop; 3. Do basic corrections (stretch contrast, remove dust marks, etc); 4. Add tags and metadata; 5. Optionally, save a copy onto an external HDD (in particular when I am travelling and can be away from home for several weeks); 6. When home, save a copy on a file server. That file server then holds the master version of all my images and is backed up. Ideally, I would like to be able to do that by having several libraries: a local one on the laptop, a remote one on the server; 7. Publish some of the pictures to Flickr or Facebook. Other features that I would be interested in but that are not on the Shotwell roadmap and would probably be better delivered as plugins or external tools: * Create an HDR image from several identical shots that only differ in exposure compensation; * Load data from a GPS device, synchronise against timestamps and use GPS data to add geo-location tags to pictures; * Add simple annotations to pictures. Cheers, Bruno From david.velazquez08 at gmail.com Tue May 25 03:29:52 2010 From: david.velazquez08 at gmail.com (David Velazquez) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 23:29:52 -0400 Subject: [Shotwell] Shotwell - Thoughts on work-flow and extensions In-Reply-To: <1274732635.1591.239.camel@nuuk> References: <4BFA9854.2050109@yorba.org> <1274732635.1591.239.camel@nuuk> Message-ID: Hi Bruno, in your message you mentioned some things that I think Shotwell has coming down the pipes. The first was geolocation, of course I can't find the ticket for it right now but I'm almost positive Shotwell will eventually import location info from photos that have it available. My evidence is this ticket: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1473 After all, can't display what it doesn't have, right? Is this what you're talking about? The second was adding simple annotations to pictures. I think that would be covered by this ticket: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1573 Also, sorry for the ridiculous formatting of this. I'm still getting used to the mailing list/quoting features of gmail and I'm getting confused! On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Bruno Girin wrote: > On Mon, 2010-05-24 at 08:16 -0700, Adam Dingle wrote: > > On 05/23/2010 05:35 AM, Chris Lindsay wrote: > > > Hi, > > > Let me introduce myself, my name is Chris Lindsay and I would class > > > myself as an Enthusiast Photographer. > > > > > > > Great - we like enthusiasts. :) > > Cool, I'll introduce myself too :-) > > My name is Bruno Girin and I am an amateur photographer and experienced > Java developer and architect. I got interested in Shotwell for the same > reason as Chris, namely that Ubuntu 10.10 Maverick is planning to > replace F-Spot with Shotwell. > > So far, I registered on Trac, downloaded the trunk SVN and built > Shotwell from source. I haven't really had the opportunity to try it out > but I had a look through the source code to see what Vala looked like > and how complex it was. And I must say that I am pleasantly surprised: > coming from a Java background, Vala seems very easy to follow and the > Shotwell source code is one of the clearest I've seen in a long time. > > I would be very interested in contributing to Shotwell development first > by helping fix bugs and hopefully later contributing new features. What > easy bugs would people recommend I look at to get started? > > I am also a member of the Ubuntu BugSquad team and am willing to help > with the interaction between Ubuntu and Shotwell in triaging and > resolving bugs. > > > > > > Ok, sorry for my longish lead in, but yesterday I read Shotwell would > > > replace F-spot on Ubuntu 10.10. So I start to investigate Shotwell > > > again after dismissing due to a lack of Raw support, which I see is > > > coming in 0.6! > > > > > > I am impressed with Shotwell and with Raw support and the other > > > additions in the pipeline will be a very usable photo manager. > > > > > > > Thanks! I'll warn you now that the RAW support in 0.6 will be somewhat > > limited. In particular, you mentioned that you shoot RAW+JPEG. In > > Shotwell 0.6, if you import RAW and JPEG files from a camera together > > they will simply appear side by side as two separate photos in your > > library. We hope to be able to treat RAW+JPEG pairs as a single photo > > before long (see http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1772 ) but I currently > > believe that feature will not be in 0.6. > > > > > My Workflow using Shotwell... > > > > > > 1, A days photographing in RAW + JPG > > > 2, Upload images from camera via Shotwell > > > - Tag images > > > - define naming convention with date/ location etc. (extension) > > > > > > > Right; this is http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1942 . > > > > > - allow copies to be saved to external HD at same time for backup > > > (extension) > > > > > > > A reasonable idea; I've created a ticket for this at > > http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1963 . > > > > > 3, Once imported images can be edited (non-destructively) within > > > Shotwell or in Raw processing app (preferably if choice not tying user > > > into a specific app, through settings, this could also be added as an > > > extension) > > > 4, Edited externally in for example Gimp. In this case a copy of image > > > would be opened in external edit to preserve original. Edited image > > > saved back into Shotwell as a revision of original. > > > > > > > Right. Shotwell 0.6 will allow you to open photos in an external > > editor. We're working on implementing this now. You'll be able to > > specify both an external JPEG editor (e.g. Gimp) and also an external > > RAW editor (e.g. UFRaw) to use for editing photos. > > > > > 5, Finally edited images can be published to social networking sites, > > > web based galleries or emailed etc. > > > > > > These are of course just my thoughts, but I believe this type of > > > functionally would allow Shotwell to do what it does well, without > > > trying to do everything poorly. As much as the majority of people only > > > want an application which stores their images for easy review, basic > > > edited and enhancements before publishing to their favourite social > > > networking site or web based gallery. The addition of various more > > > advance features in the form of extensions would allow advanced or > > > users to still use and enjoy Shotwell as part of their work-flow. > > > > > > > Thanks again for the feedback. We really appreciate hearing about > > people's entire workflow and I hope we can continue to improve Shotwell > > to make it work well for you and other enthusiasts. :) > > I have a very similar workflow: > 1. Take pictures (mostly JPEG, sometimes RAW as well); > 2. Connect the camera and load pictures onto my laptop; > 3. Do basic corrections (stretch contrast, remove dust marks, etc); > 4. Add tags and metadata; > 5. Optionally, save a copy onto an external HDD (in particular when > I am travelling and can be away from home for several weeks); > 6. When home, save a copy on a file server. That file server then > holds the master version of all my images and is backed up. > Ideally, I would like to be able to do that by having several > libraries: a local one on the laptop, a remote one on the > server; > 7. Publish some of the pictures to Flickr or Facebook. > > Other features that I would be interested in but that are not on the > Shotwell roadmap and would probably be better delivered as plugins or > external tools: > * Create an HDR image from several identical shots that only > differ in exposure compensation; * Load data from a GPS device, synchronise against timestamps and > use GPS data to add geo-location tags to pictures; > * Add simple annotations to pictures. > > Cheers, > > Bruno > > > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > From adam at yorba.org Tue May 25 18:37:24 2010 From: adam at yorba.org (Adam Dingle) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:37:24 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Shotwell - Thoughts on work-flow and extensions In-Reply-To: <1274732635.1591.239.camel@nuuk> References: <4BFA9854.2050109@yorba.org> <1274732635.1591.239.camel@nuuk> Message-ID: <4BFC18E4.40906@yorba.org> Bruno, On 05/24/2010 01:23 PM, Bruno Girin wrote: > So far, I registered on Trac, downloaded the trunk SVN and built > Shotwell from source. I haven't really had the opportunity to try it out > but I had a look through the source code to see what Vala looked like > and how complex it was. And I must say that I am pleasantly surprised: > coming from a Java background, Vala seems very easy to follow and the > Shotwell source code is one of the clearest I've seen in a long time. > > Thanks! :) > I would be very interested in contributing to Shotwell development first > by helping fix bugs and hopefully later contributing new features. What > easy bugs would people recommend I look at to get started? > We'd be happy to have your help. In our ticket database, if a ticket has no owner that means that nobody is actively working on it. So feel free to work on any of these tickets. If you do start working on a ticket, please set yourself to be the owner so we won't step on each other's feet. We're currently hoping to fix all tickets at high priority for 0.6, which may be ambitious. Here are some possibly easy bugs/features at high priority: #1919 Ctrl + mouse wheel to zoom in Photos view #1934 allow Add Tags/Modify Tags in full-window mode #1952 remove Display Borders preference #1959 Rename Photo causes soft assertion #1965 import dialog nits And here are some possibly easy bugs/features at medium priority: #853 Control+Shift+Click #1110 send pictures via email #1304 display shadow around each photo #1321 icons in Publish dialog dropdown #1845 Indent and ellipsize filenames in Import Complete dialog #1858 Cursor disappear when not in use during fullscreen mode #1954 show exposure bias in Extended Information > Other features that I would be interested in but that are not on the > Shotwell roadmap and would probably be better delivered as plugins or > external tools: > * Create an HDR image from several identical shots that only > differ in exposure compensation; > Yes, this would be cool. I've created a ticket at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1968 . > * Load data from a GPS device, synchronise against timestamps and > use GPS data to add geo-location tags to pictures; > As David Velazquez pointed out, we do have plans to allow the user to browse (and, hopefully, filter/search) photos according to their geographic location; this is http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1473 . But your request is actually different: you'd like to be able to generate geotags by synchronizing photo timestamps with data from a GPS device (which, presumably, you lugged around when taking the photos). That would be useful; I've ticketed this at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1969 . > * Add simple annotations to pictures. > As David pointed out, this is http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1573 . Thanks again for your feedback and suggestions - adam From brunogirin at gmail.com Wed May 26 08:00:36 2010 From: brunogirin at gmail.com (Bruno Girin) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 09:00:36 +0100 Subject: [Shotwell] Shotwell - Thoughts on work-flow and extensions In-Reply-To: <4BFC18E4.40906@yorba.org> References: <4BFA9854.2050109@yorba.org> <1274732635.1591.239.camel@nuuk> <4BFC18E4.40906@yorba.org> Message-ID: <1274860836.1803.5.camel@nuuk> On Tue, 2010-05-25 at 11:37 -0700, Adam Dingle wrote: [snip] > > > I would be very interested in contributing to Shotwell development first > > by helping fix bugs and hopefully later contributing new features. What > > easy bugs would people recommend I look at to get started? > > > > We'd be happy to have your help. In our ticket database, if a ticket > has no owner that means that nobody is actively working on it. So feel > free to work on any of these tickets. If you do start working on a > ticket, please set yourself to be the owner so we won't step on each > other's feet. We're currently hoping to fix all tickets at high > priority for 0.6, which may be ambitious. > > Here are some possibly easy bugs/features at high priority: > > #1919 Ctrl + mouse wheel to zoom in Photos view > #1934 allow Add Tags/Modify Tags in full-window mode > #1952 remove Display Borders preference > #1959 Rename Photo causes soft assertion > #1965 import dialog nits > > And here are some possibly easy bugs/features at medium priority: > > #853 Control+Shift+Click > #1110 send pictures via email > #1304 display shadow around each photo > #1321 icons in Publish dialog dropdown > #1845 Indent and ellipsize filenames in Import Complete dialog > #1858 Cursor disappear when not in use during fullscreen mode > #1954 show exposure bias in Extended Information OK, I'll have a look. What's the complete process to work on those? My assumption is: * Set myself as the owner of the ticket * Work on the trunk code * Create a patch * Upload the patch to Trac * Someone else reviews the patch before merging it into trunk Is that correct? And is there an IRC channel where I can ask questions about the code or should this be done on this list? Bruno From guru at front.ru Wed May 26 14:12:26 2010 From: guru at front.ru (guru at front.ru) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 18:12:26 +0400 Subject: [Shotwell] Small question Message-ID: <74c24029ff33fae6c1c72cda4e57797d817eff53@mail.qip.ru> Hi! I have on my camera too much photos, and when I want to import latest photos I must wait when I see previews of these. Can you make optional making previews ascending or descending? P.S. Thanks for Shotwell, it's more lightweight and fast alternative than f-spot, I mustn't have mono )) Good luck in developing From jim at yorba.org Wed May 26 17:16:58 2010 From: jim at yorba.org (Jim Nelson) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 10:16:58 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Shotwell - Thoughts on work-flow and extensions In-Reply-To: <1274860836.1803.5.camel@nuuk> References: <4BFA9854.2050109@yorba.org> <1274732635.1591.239.camel@nuuk> <4BFC18E4.40906@yorba.org> <1274860836.1803.5.camel@nuuk> Message-ID: > What's the complete process to work on those? My > assumption is: > ? ? ?* Set myself as the owner of the ticket > ? ? ?* Work on the trunk code > ? ? ?* Create a patch > ? ? ?* Upload the patch to Trac > ? ? ?* Someone else reviews the patch before merging it into trunk Yes, this is a good workflow. When you upload the patch to Trac be sure to include a comment mentioning that. > And is there an IRC channel where I can ask questions > about the code or should this be done on this list? We don't currently have an IRC channel, although it's something we've considered in the past. We're pretty good about responding to questions here on the list -- feel free to use this as a resource for developing patches and getting ideas where to dive in. Thanks, -- Jim From jim at yorba.org Wed May 26 17:26:05 2010 From: jim at yorba.org (Jim Nelson) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 10:26:05 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Small question In-Reply-To: <74c24029ff33fae6c1c72cda4e57797d817eff53@mail.qip.ru> References: <74c24029ff33fae6c1c72cda4e57797d817eff53@mail.qip.ru> Message-ID: On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 7:12 AM, wrote: > Hi! I have on my camera too much photos, and when I want to import latest photos I must wait when I see previews of these. Can you make optional making previews ascending or descending? That's something we've thought about -- I've put in a ticket for it: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1979 > P.S. Thanks for Shotwell, it's more lightweight and fast alternative than f-spot, I mustn't have mono )) Good luck in developing Appreciate that! Cheers, -- Jim From mnemo at minimum.se Wed May 26 17:52:33 2010 From: mnemo at minimum.se (Martin Olsson) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 19:52:33 +0200 Subject: [Shotwell] Shotwell - Thoughts on work-flow and extensions In-Reply-To: <1274860836.1803.5.camel@nuuk> References: <4BFA9854.2050109@yorba.org> <1274732635.1591.239.camel@nuuk> <4BFC18E4.40906@yorba.org> <1274860836.1803.5.camel@nuuk> Message-ID: <4BFD5FE1.9060300@minimum.se> On 05/26/2010 10:00 AM, Bruno Girin wrote: > OK, I'll have a look. What's the complete process to work on those? My > assumption is: > * Set myself as the owner of the ticket > * Work on the trunk code > * Create a patch > * Upload the patch to Trac > * Someone else reviews the patch before merging it into trunk > > Is that correct? And is there an IRC channel where I can ask questions > about the code or should this be done on this list? Also, if you didn't already, check out the architecture overview for the Shotwell code (on the wiki): http://trac.yorba.org/wiki/ShotwellArchitectureOverview Martin From david.velazquez08 at gmail.com Wed May 26 20:02:30 2010 From: david.velazquez08 at gmail.com (David Velazquez) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 16:02:30 -0400 Subject: [Shotwell] Shotwell - Thoughts on work-flow and extensions In-Reply-To: References: <4BFA9854.2050109@yorba.org> <1274732635.1591.239.camel@nuuk> <4BFC18E4.40906@yorba.org> <1274860836.1803.5.camel@nuuk> Message-ID: Since I can't code worth a damn I don't suppose it matters, but I've made it a point of hanging out in #Shotwell on Freenode in case people drop by. Perhaps Gnome IRC might be better though. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Jim Nelson wrote: > > What's the complete process to work on those? My > > assumption is: > > * Set myself as the owner of the ticket > > * Work on the trunk code > > * Create a patch > > * Upload the patch to Trac > > * Someone else reviews the patch before merging it into trunk > > Yes, this is a good workflow. When you upload the patch to Trac be > sure to include a comment mentioning that. > > > And is there an IRC channel where I can ask questions > > about the code or should this be done on this list? > > We don't currently have an IRC channel, although it's something we've > considered in the past. We're pretty good about responding to > questions here on the list -- feel free to use this as a resource for > developing patches and getting ideas where to dive in. > > Thanks, > > -- Jim > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > From daniplanas.a at gmail.com Thu May 27 07:38:01 2010 From: daniplanas.a at gmail.com (dani planas armangue) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:38:01 +0200 Subject: [Shotwell] shtowell mockups(daniel planas) Message-ID: <1274945881.2644.0.camel@dani-laptop> my name is Daniel Planas, it's you may know me by some of my work in ubuntu as a designer, I made some mockups of a possible reorganization of the program. thus be located above the toolbar as most applications and is more consistent for the user. I hope you like. From mahfiaz at gmail.com Thu May 27 17:47:47 2010 From: mahfiaz at gmail.com (Mattias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=F5ldaru?=) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 20:47:47 +0300 Subject: [Shotwell] shtowell mockups(daniel planas) In-Reply-To: <1274945881.2644.0.camel@dani-laptop> References: <1274945881.2644.0.camel@dani-laptop> Message-ID: <1274982467.13542.2.camel@antiloop> ?hel kenal p?eval, N, 2010-05-27 kell 09:38, kirjutas dani planas armangue: > > my name is Daniel Planas, it's you may know me by some of my work in > ubuntu as a designer, I made some mockups of a possible reorganization > of the program. thus be located above the toolbar as most applications > and is more consistent for the user. I hope you like. > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell Hi Daniel Could you please upload these mockups to a shared image hosting service, such as http://www.imageshare.web.id/, since this mailing list does not allow attachments. Regards Mattias From daniplanas.a at gmail.com Thu May 27 18:18:22 2010 From: daniplanas.a at gmail.com (dani planas armangue) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 20:18:22 +0200 Subject: [Shotwell] shotwell mockups(daniel planas) Message-ID: <1274984302.4831.16.camel@dani-laptop> my name is Daniel Planas, it's you may know me by some of my work in ubuntu as a designer, I made some mockups of a possible reorganization of the program. thus be located above the toolbar as most applications and is more consistent for the user. I hope you like. http://i50.tinypic.com/vwsbch.jpg http://i49.tinypic.com/1xz7ls.jpg http://i49.tinypic.com/1xz7ls.jpg http://i49.tinypic.com/ae409d.jpg http://i49.tinypic.com/ae409d.jpg http://i49.tinypic.com/30cu4ye.jpg http://i49.tinypic.com/30cu4ye.jpg Daniel.P -- From cosmingcosma at gmail.com Thu May 27 19:10:46 2010 From: cosmingcosma at gmail.com (Cosmin Cosma) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 22:10:46 +0300 Subject: [Shotwell] when would be implemented video/faces/tags in file Message-ID: Hello everyone, Congratulations for the great job with shotwell. I am wondering when would be implemented these: 1) video files (at least imported from camera AND folder) 2) faces (like in picasa :D ) 3) tags to be stored in files (like f-spot) 4) organize tags and subtags (like f-spot) Thank you. :) From jim at yorba.org Thu May 27 19:18:54 2010 From: jim at yorba.org (Jim Nelson) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 12:18:54 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] when would be implemented video/faces/tags in file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Congratulations for the great job with shotwell. Thanks! > I am wondering when would > be implemented these: > 1) video files (at least imported from camera AND folder) We have plans for this: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/855 > 2) faces (like in picasa :D ) Likewise: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1702 > 3) tags to be stored in files (like f-spot) There are two concerns here: Storing the tags in exported photos and storing them in the master photos. Storing them in exported photos is planned for 0.6, our next release: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1623 Storing them in the masters is on the table, but we're not sure when and how we want to do it. Our philosophy in Shotwell is to treat your master files as precious, so we want to do this right: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1290 > 4) organize tags and subtags (like f-spot) This is also planned for a future release: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1401 Cheers, -- Jim From cosmingcosma at gmail.com Thu May 27 20:58:05 2010 From: cosmingcosma at gmail.com (Cosmin Cosma) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 23:58:05 +0300 Subject: [Shotwell] when would be implemented video/faces/tags in file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great news. Thanks for the replay. I saw the tickets. I just didn't know if all of them will be implemented, but my question was when ... I am just impatient :D so I was wondering about the time or the milestone when will these be implemented. You guys do a Great job, and are a very alive team :D On 27 May 2010 22:18, Jim Nelson wrote: > > Congratulations for the great job with shotwell. > > Thanks! > > > I am wondering when would > > be implemented these: > > 1) video files (at least imported from camera AND folder) > > We have plans for this: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/855 > > > 2) faces (like in picasa :D ) > > Likewise: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1702 > > > 3) tags to be stored in files (like f-spot) > > There are two concerns here: Storing the tags in exported photos and > storing them in the master photos. Storing them in exported photos is > planned for 0.6, our next release: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1623 > > Storing them in the masters is on the table, but we're not sure when > and how we want to do it. Our philosophy in Shotwell is to treat your > master files as precious, so we want to do this right: > http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1290 > > > 4) organize tags and subtags (like f-spot) > > This is also planned for a future release: > http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1401 > > Cheers, > > -- Jim > From jim at yorba.org Thu May 27 21:22:12 2010 From: jim at yorba.org (Jim Nelson) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 14:22:12 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] when would be implemented video/faces/tags in file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Thanks for the replay. I saw the tickets. I just didn't know if all of them > will be implemented, but my question was when ... I am just impatient :D so > I was wondering about the time or the milestone when will these be > implemented. Yeah, the ones that are medium priority, the timetable is fuzzier. There's a definite urge to implement all of these features, the only questions are of priority and manpower. > You guys do a Great job, and are a very alive team :D Thanks! -- Jim From hamkins at alumni.caltech.edu Fri May 28 21:19:49 2010 From: hamkins at alumni.caltech.edu (Jon Hamkins) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 14:19:49 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Import questions Message-ID: <4C003375.1090705@alumni.caltech.edu> Hi, I'm a long time RH and Fedora user, and first-time shotwell user. First, let me offer congratulations to the shotwell development team on a great looking photo organizer -- this will be a really nice tool for me, once I figure out a few things. 1. In importing from a camera card, shotwell ignored the video files on the camera (telling me so -- good). This is understandable for a photo organizer, but it does make shotwell not such a great default tool for how I operate. I only attach a camera card when I want to dump all data and erase the card. How do others handle this issue of video files not getting copied to the computer? I was thinking of reverting to gthumb as the default application when a camera card is attached to the computer (which copies both images and videos), and then importing the new hard-drive directory into shotwell to take advantage of shotwell's superior photo organization capabilities. 2. Incidentally, when I connected a camera and let shotwell import the pictures, it seems to have created the directory ~/2010 and put the pictures there. Is this the expected behavior when no ~/Pictures/ directory is present? This is, well, weird. Shouldn't there be an option to specify where to copy the images? 3. Starting over (deleting ~/.shotwell, and creating ~/Pictures), I imported a directory of pictures already on my hard drive into shotwell, keeping the checkbox checked for copying files to my "photo library". But, if I move/rename the original directory of images, shotwell complains that they are missing, and the extended information indicates that shotwell is looking for the images in their original location. So, it only seems to have *linked* to the pictures, not copied them to ~/Pictures (which remained empty). In fact, the import seems to behave the same way whether or not I check the copy checkbox. Incidentally, I've read through the shotwell tickets, and I agree with Adam's comment on #1602, that by default, it is the right thing to link images already on the hard drive and copy images on a removable drive. Maybe I'll stick to that approach, and be careful never move/rename anything in that directory structure. ----Jon From david.velazquez08 at gmail.com Fri May 28 21:58:02 2010 From: david.velazquez08 at gmail.com (David Velazquez) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 17:58:02 -0400 Subject: [Shotwell] Import questions In-Reply-To: <4C003375.1090705@alumni.caltech.edu> References: <4C003375.1090705@alumni.caltech.edu> Message-ID: *Seems I forgot to send this to the whole list as first, sorry for the dupes.* Hey Jon! I'm just a lowly user, but let me see if I can answer a few of your questions. As an amateur point and shooter I'm not the heaviest Shotwell user so my methods might not be the most efficient out there, but they work. 1. I still use USB from camera -> Computer. On the rare occasion I have a video file I can navigate through the cards directories in Nautilus and just drag and drop the video file. The issue of importing video files has been ticketed here (at least I think that's the right one). It's currently labeled as priority medium which I believe means it won't be introduced in .6, the next release. Somewhere in here recently it was said that they were trying to get everything with priority high into the next release, though that might not happen. 2. That might be a bug. I thought at the very least it would create ~/Pictures for you. Shotwell does organize files in year/month/day format though, so at the very least it's doing that correctly. A ticket has been created to allow users to specify where to save photos. That ticket is here: http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1075 Looking at the ticket I see it was closed and fixed in the last two days by Allison, so perhaps this will be making it into .6. 3. I think I agree with pretty much everything that happened. :) I just read that you read through the tickets and I apologize if I was restating information you already know after reading. Hopefully I've picked the right tickets that answered your questions. Dave On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 5:19 PM, Jon Hamkins wrote: > Hi, I'm a long time RH and Fedora user, and first-time shotwell user. > First, let me offer congratulations to the shotwell development team on > a great looking photo organizer -- this will be a really nice tool for > me, once I figure out a few things. > > 1. In importing from a camera card, shotwell ignored the video files on > the camera (telling me so -- good). This is understandable for a photo > organizer, but it does make shotwell not such a great default tool for > how I operate. I only attach a camera card when I want to dump all data > and erase the card. How do others handle this issue of video files not > getting copied to the computer? I was thinking of reverting to gthumb > as the default application when a camera card is attached to the > computer (which copies both images and videos), and then importing the > new hard-drive directory into shotwell to take advantage of shotwell's > superior photo organization capabilities. > > 2. Incidentally, when I connected a camera and let shotwell import the > pictures, it seems to have created the directory ~/2010 and put the > pictures there. Is this the expected behavior when no ~/Pictures/ > directory is present? This is, well, weird. Shouldn't there be an > option to specify where to copy the images? > > 3. Starting over (deleting ~/.shotwell, and creating ~/Pictures), I > imported a directory of pictures already on my hard drive into shotwell, > keeping the checkbox checked for copying files to my "photo library". > But, if I move/rename the original directory of images, shotwell > complains that they are missing, and the extended information indicates > that shotwell is looking for the images in their original location. So, > it only seems to have *linked* to the pictures, not copied them to > ~/Pictures (which remained empty). In fact, the import seems to behave > the same way whether or not I check the copy checkbox. > > Incidentally, I've read through the shotwell tickets, and I agree with > Adam's comment on #1602, that by default, it is the right thing to link > images already on the hard drive and copy images on a removable drive. > Maybe I'll stick to that approach, and be careful never move/rename > anything in that directory structure. > > ----Jon > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > From david.velazquez08 at gmail.com Sat May 29 08:32:34 2010 From: david.velazquez08 at gmail.com (David Velazquez) Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 04:32:34 -0400 Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell Message-ID: Please, pardon me if this seems too long, too much like a rant, or just the wrong place for this. It's just something I've had in my head as of late. I've sent it to this list only for the reason that this is the project I would like to help out. Not everything in here applies to Yorba, however, I felt it essential so people knew where I was coming from. I've been an Ubuntu user on and off for a while now and I've always wanted to actively contribute to an open source/free software project. Unfortunately, most of the time the calls for help are for developers or translators. Unfortunately, I know no other languages and am therefore quite useless on both fronts. I do, however, enjoy writing (as will be evident by the time I'm done here). For this reason I feel like I could help out projects with documentation efforts. Even if most users will never read the documentation provided it always seems to make the project look more polished and professional. Usually when it gets right down to it I get put off by one thing or another though, the most common of which seems to be how to make that leap from spectator and user to contributor. Often it seems open source projects are spread out on many different sites from Launchpad to Trac to personal websites and a mixture of all three. This, coupled with what at first glance seems like a closed off community, can present an insurmountable hurdle to the prospective volunteer. In my personal experience I see opportunities for assistance, but no clear cut way of getting information on where to begin, what to do, or a way of collaborating with others so work is not done and redone. Trac might work well for developers, but it leaves the lowly folk like me out in the dark. Wanting to contribute but not knowing how. Shotwells' own page welcomes contributions in the form of artwork, documentation, and more, but to the common reader leaves no other information in the form of how to get started, what needs working on, or any other information. I'm not sure what I'm requesting here, other than a more defined path for people like me who wish to contribute but might not know where to get started or what to get started on. In a broader sense a place for people like me to find tasks that can be done and collaborate on them until they reach that goal is what comes to mind. A volunteers center of sorts. I believe there are many others like me who would love to help out their favorite project, but due to the very nature of such software they would like to help out find it difficult to do so. Centralizing software (which Yorba has so nicely done!), laying out defined and specific things which need doing (for us non-developers), and providing a strong starting point with information on how to get started and where to go for help should all serve to increase the (long term) amount of volunteers software like this receives. In short, it's tough to dive head first in and help out wherever help is needed. I'm here and would love to contribute to any of Yorbas projects with documentation (since this is about all I can do) if I only knew where to start. Dave From bengt at thuree.com Sat May 29 09:45:09 2010 From: bengt at thuree.com (Bengt Thuree) Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 19:45:09 +1000 Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1275126309.15097.1.camel@lappis> Hi I am just a bystander as you are, but have you looked at http://trac.yorba.org/ticket/1143 /Bengt On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 04:32 -0400, David Velazquez wrote: > Please, pardon me if this seems too long, too much like a rant, or just the > wrong place for this. It's just something I've had in my head as of late. > I've sent it to this list only for the reason that this is the project I > would like to help out. Not everything in here applies to Yorba, however, I > felt it essential so people knew where I was coming from. > > I've been an Ubuntu user on and off for a while now and I've always wanted > to actively contribute to an open source/free software project. > Unfortunately, most of the time the calls for help are for developers or > translators. Unfortunately, I know no other languages and am therefore quite > useless on both fronts. I do, however, enjoy writing (as will be evident by > the time I'm done here). For this reason I feel like I could help out > projects with documentation efforts. Even if most users will never read the > documentation provided it always seems to make the project look more > polished and professional. Usually when it gets right down to it I get put > off by one thing or another though, the most common of which seems to be how > to make that leap from spectator and user to contributor. > > Often it seems open source projects are spread out on many different sites > from Launchpad to Trac to personal websites and a mixture of all three. > This, coupled with what at first glance seems like a closed off community, > can present an insurmountable hurdle to the prospective volunteer. In my > personal experience I see opportunities for assistance, but no clear cut way > of getting information on where to begin, what to do, or a way of > collaborating with others so work is not done and redone. Trac might work > well for developers, but it leaves the lowly folk like me out in the dark. > Wanting to contribute but not knowing how. Shotwells' own page welcomes > contributions in the form of artwork, documentation, and more, but to the > common reader leaves no other information in the form of how to get started, > what needs working on, or any other information. > > I'm not sure what I'm requesting here, other than a more defined path for > people like me who wish to contribute but might not know where to get > started or what to get started on. In a broader sense a place for people > like me to find tasks that can be done and collaborate on them until they > reach that goal is what comes to mind. A volunteers center of sorts. > > I believe there are many others like me who would love to help out their > favorite project, but due to the very nature of such software they would > like to help out find it difficult to do so. Centralizing software (which > Yorba has so nicely done!), laying out defined and specific things which > need doing (for us non-developers), and providing a strong starting point > with information on how to get started and where to go for help should all > serve to increase the (long term) amount of volunteers software like this > receives. > > In short, it's tough to dive head first in and help out wherever help is > needed. I'm here and would love to contribute to any of Yorbas projects with > documentation (since this is about all I can do) if I only knew where to > start. > > Dave > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > From brunogirin at gmail.com Sat May 29 10:50:47 2010 From: brunogirin at gmail.com (Bruno Girin) Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 11:50:47 +0100 Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1275130247.1589.4.camel@nuuk> On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 04:32 -0400, David Velazquez wrote: > Please, pardon me if this seems too long, too much like a rant, or just the > wrong place for this. It's just something I've had in my head as of late. > I've sent it to this list only for the reason that this is the project I > would like to help out. Not everything in here applies to Yorba, however, I > felt it essential so people knew where I was coming from. > > I've been an Ubuntu user on and off for a while now and I've always wanted > to actively contribute to an open source/free software project. > Unfortunately, most of the time the calls for help are for developers or > translators. Unfortunately, I know no other languages and am therefore quite > useless on both fronts. I do, however, enjoy writing (as will be evident by > the time I'm done here). For this reason I feel like I could help out > projects with documentation efforts. Even if most users will never read the > documentation provided it always seems to make the project look more > polished and professional. Usually when it gets right down to it I get put > off by one thing or another though, the most common of which seems to be how > to make that leap from spectator and user to contributor. > > Often it seems open source projects are spread out on many different sites > from Launchpad to Trac to personal websites and a mixture of all three. > This, coupled with what at first glance seems like a closed off community, > can present an insurmountable hurdle to the prospective volunteer. In my > personal experience I see opportunities for assistance, but no clear cut way > of getting information on where to begin, what to do, or a way of > collaborating with others so work is not done and redone. Trac might work > well for developers, but it leaves the lowly folk like me out in the dark. > Wanting to contribute but not knowing how. Shotwells' own page welcomes > contributions in the form of artwork, documentation, and more, but to the > common reader leaves no other information in the form of how to get started, > what needs working on, or any other information. > > I'm not sure what I'm requesting here, other than a more defined path for > people like me who wish to contribute but might not know where to get > started or what to get started on. In a broader sense a place for people > like me to find tasks that can be done and collaborate on them until they > reach that goal is what comes to mind. A volunteers center of sorts. > > I believe there are many others like me who would love to help out their > favorite project, but due to the very nature of such software they would > like to help out find it difficult to do so. Centralizing software (which > Yorba has so nicely done!), laying out defined and specific things which > need doing (for us non-developers), and providing a strong starting point > with information on how to get started and where to go for help should all > serve to increase the (long term) amount of volunteers software like this > receives. > > In short, it's tough to dive head first in and help out wherever help is > needed. I'm here and would love to contribute to any of Yorbas projects with > documentation (since this is about all I can do) if I only knew where to > start. Dave, A possible start would be to contribute Shotwell documentation to the Ubuntu Manual project [1]. The project has already delivered a first version for Lucid so there is a complete structure in place. Once written, that documentation could be made generic and transformed into a standalone Shotwell guide. [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual Bruno From david.velazquez08 at gmail.com Sun May 30 04:23:12 2010 From: david.velazquez08 at gmail.com (David Velazquez) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 00:23:12 -0400 Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: <1275130247.1589.4.camel@nuuk> References: <1275130247.1589.4.camel@nuuk> Message-ID: Hi Bengt, Bruno. I had not seen ticket #1143 at all. It looks like a project indeed and I'd be happy to try and tackle it. I'm not experienced in using DocBook format or Mallard as the ticket mentions, but looking at them briefly it seems it might not be too hard to wrap my head around it. Regarding the Ubuntu Manual project, it doesn't seem as if they're requesting documentation on software yet, do you think they would still accept it or even want it done? I see they're using TexLive which appears to be an alternative to both DocBook and Mallard. I wouldn't mind getting started on writing out more stuff for Shotwell (or any of Yorbas others projects), but which one to go with? TexLive, DocBook, or Mallard (if they are indeed alternatives to one another). A goal should be, I think, for anything that's done to be able to be used in as many ways as possible. For example: Something done as a guide to download off of Shotwells site should (in an ideal world) be able to just be tossed into the Ubuntu Manual project should they request stuff on software. Thanks for your thoughts on this. Hopefully I might be on my way to a workable project. On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Bruno Girin wrote: > On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 04:32 -0400, David Velazquez wrote: > > Please, pardon me if this seems too long, too much like a rant, or just > the > > wrong place for this. It's just something I've had in my head as of late. > > I've sent it to this list only for the reason that this is the project I > > would like to help out. Not everything in here applies to Yorba, however, > I > > felt it essential so people knew where I was coming from. > > > > I've been an Ubuntu user on and off for a while now and I've always > wanted > > to actively contribute to an open source/free software project. > > Unfortunately, most of the time the calls for help are for developers or > > translators. Unfortunately, I know no other languages and am therefore > quite > > useless on both fronts. I do, however, enjoy writing (as will be evident > by > > the time I'm done here). For this reason I feel like I could help out > > projects with documentation efforts. Even if most users will never read > the > > documentation provided it always seems to make the project look more > > polished and professional. Usually when it gets right down to it I get > put > > off by one thing or another though, the most common of which seems to be > how > > to make that leap from spectator and user to contributor. > > > > Often it seems open source projects are spread out on many different > sites > > from Launchpad to Trac to personal websites and a mixture of all three. > > This, coupled with what at first glance seems like a closed off > community, > > can present an insurmountable hurdle to the prospective volunteer. In my > > personal experience I see opportunities for assistance, but no clear cut > way > > of getting information on where to begin, what to do, or a way of > > collaborating with others so work is not done and redone. Trac might work > > well for developers, but it leaves the lowly folk like me out in the > dark. > > Wanting to contribute but not knowing how. Shotwells' own page welcomes > > contributions in the form of artwork, documentation, and more, but to the > > common reader leaves no other information in the form of how to get > started, > > what needs working on, or any other information. > > > > I'm not sure what I'm requesting here, other than a more defined path for > > people like me who wish to contribute but might not know where to get > > started or what to get started on. In a broader sense a place for people > > like me to find tasks that can be done and collaborate on them until they > > reach that goal is what comes to mind. A volunteers center of sorts. > > > > I believe there are many others like me who would love to help out their > > favorite project, but due to the very nature of such software they would > > like to help out find it difficult to do so. Centralizing software (which > > Yorba has so nicely done!), laying out defined and specific things which > > need doing (for us non-developers), and providing a strong starting point > > with information on how to get started and where to go for help should > all > > serve to increase the (long term) amount of volunteers software like this > > receives. > > > > In short, it's tough to dive head first in and help out wherever help is > > needed. I'm here and would love to contribute to any of Yorbas projects > with > > documentation (since this is about all I can do) if I only knew where to > > start. > > Dave, > > A possible start would be to contribute Shotwell documentation to the > Ubuntu Manual project [1]. The project has already delivered a first > version for Lucid so there is a complete structure in place. Once > written, that documentation could be made generic and transformed into a > standalone Shotwell guide. > > [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual > > Bruno > > > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > From mahfiaz at gmail.com Sun May 30 05:25:37 2010 From: mahfiaz at gmail.com (Mattias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=F5ldaru?=) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 08:25:37 +0300 Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: References: <1275130247.1589.4.camel@nuuk> Message-ID: <1275197137.8816.7.camel@antiloop> You might want to read GNOME documentation Handbook, they use DocBook format: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gdp-handbook/stable/index.html.en Also, Shotwell could use GNOME for both application and documentation translations, it works rather well and translations there are definitely of better quality than for example in launchpad. Regards Mattias ?hel kenal p?eval, P, 2010-05-30 kell 00:23, kirjutas David Velazquez: > Hi Bengt, Bruno. I had not seen ticket #1143 at all. It looks like a project > indeed and I'd be happy to try and tackle it. I'm not experienced in using > DocBook format or Mallard as the ticket mentions, but looking at them > briefly it seems it might not be too hard to wrap my head around it. > > Regarding the Ubuntu Manual project, it doesn't seem as if they're > requesting documentation on software yet, do you think they would still > accept it or even want it done? I see they're using TexLive which appears to > be an alternative to both DocBook and Mallard. > > I wouldn't mind getting started on writing out more stuff for Shotwell (or > any of Yorbas others projects), but which one to go with? TexLive, DocBook, > or Mallard (if they are indeed alternatives to one another). A goal should > be, I think, for anything that's done to be able to be used in as many ways > as possible. For example: Something done as a guide to download off of > Shotwells site should (in an ideal world) be able to just be tossed into the > Ubuntu Manual project should they request stuff on software. > > Thanks for your thoughts on this. Hopefully I might be on my way to a > workable project. > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Bruno Girin wrote: > > > On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 04:32 -0400, David Velazquez wrote: > > > Please, pardon me if this seems too long, too much like a rant, or just > > the > > > wrong place for this. It's just something I've had in my head as of late. > > > I've sent it to this list only for the reason that this is the project I > > > would like to help out. Not everything in here applies to Yorba, however, > > I > > > felt it essential so people knew where I was coming from. > > > > > > I've been an Ubuntu user on and off for a while now and I've always > > wanted > > > to actively contribute to an open source/free software project. > > > Unfortunately, most of the time the calls for help are for developers or > > > translators. Unfortunately, I know no other languages and am therefore > > quite > > > useless on both fronts. I do, however, enjoy writing (as will be evident > > by > > > the time I'm done here). For this reason I feel like I could help out > > > projects with documentation efforts. Even if most users will never read > > the > > > documentation provided it always seems to make the project look more > > > polished and professional. Usually when it gets right down to it I get > > put > > > off by one thing or another though, the most common of which seems to be > > how > > > to make that leap from spectator and user to contributor. > > > > > > Often it seems open source projects are spread out on many different > > sites > > > from Launchpad to Trac to personal websites and a mixture of all three. > > > This, coupled with what at first glance seems like a closed off > > community, > > > can present an insurmountable hurdle to the prospective volunteer. In my > > > personal experience I see opportunities for assistance, but no clear cut > > way > > > of getting information on where to begin, what to do, or a way of > > > collaborating with others so work is not done and redone. Trac might work > > > well for developers, but it leaves the lowly folk like me out in the > > dark. > > > Wanting to contribute but not knowing how. Shotwells' own page welcomes > > > contributions in the form of artwork, documentation, and more, but to the > > > common reader leaves no other information in the form of how to get > > started, > > > what needs working on, or any other information. > > > > > > I'm not sure what I'm requesting here, other than a more defined path for > > > people like me who wish to contribute but might not know where to get > > > started or what to get started on. In a broader sense a place for people > > > like me to find tasks that can be done and collaborate on them until they > > > reach that goal is what comes to mind. A volunteers center of sorts. > > > > > > I believe there are many others like me who would love to help out their > > > favorite project, but due to the very nature of such software they would > > > like to help out find it difficult to do so. Centralizing software (which > > > Yorba has so nicely done!), laying out defined and specific things which > > > need doing (for us non-developers), and providing a strong starting point > > > with information on how to get started and where to go for help should > > all > > > serve to increase the (long term) amount of volunteers software like this > > > receives. > > > > > > In short, it's tough to dive head first in and help out wherever help is > > > needed. I'm here and would love to contribute to any of Yorbas projects > > with > > > documentation (since this is about all I can do) if I only knew where to > > > start. > > > > Dave, > > > > A possible start would be to contribute Shotwell documentation to the > > Ubuntu Manual project [1]. The project has already delivered a first > > version for Lucid so there is a complete structure in place. Once > > written, that documentation could be made generic and transformed into a > > standalone Shotwell guide. > > > > [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual > > > > Bruno > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shotwell mailing list > > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > > > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell From mahfiaz at gmail.com Sun May 30 05:31:35 2010 From: mahfiaz at gmail.com (Mattias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=F5ldaru?=) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 08:31:35 +0300 Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: References: <1275130247.1589.4.camel@nuuk> Message-ID: <1275197495.8816.11.camel@antiloop> Forgot to add before, Conglomerate seems to be a nice DocBook editor: http://www.conglomerate.org/ Mattias > > > > You might want to read GNOME documentation Handbook, they use DocBook > format: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gdp-handbook/stable/index.html.en > > Also, Shotwell could use GNOME for both application and documentation > translations, it works rather well and translations there are definitely > of better quality than for example in launchpad. > > > Regards > Mattias > > > > ?hel kenal p?eval, P, 2010-05-30 kell 00:23, kirjutas David Velazquez: > > Hi Bengt, Bruno. I had not seen ticket #1143 at all. It looks like a project > > indeed and I'd be happy to try and tackle it. I'm not experienced in using > > DocBook format or Mallard as the ticket mentions, but looking at them > > briefly it seems it might not be too hard to wrap my head around it. > > > > Regarding the Ubuntu Manual project, it doesn't seem as if they're > > requesting documentation on software yet, do you think they would still > > accept it or even want it done? I see they're using TexLive which appears to > > be an alternative to both DocBook and Mallard. > > > > I wouldn't mind getting started on writing out more stuff for Shotwell (or > > any of Yorbas others projects), but which one to go with? TexLive, DocBook, > > or Mallard (if they are indeed alternatives to one another). A goal should > > be, I think, for anything that's done to be able to be used in as many ways > > as possible. For example: Something done as a guide to download off of > > Shotwells site should (in an ideal world) be able to just be tossed into the > > Ubuntu Manual project should they request stuff on software. > > > > Thanks for your thoughts on this. Hopefully I might be on my way to a > > workable project. > > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Bruno Girin wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 04:32 -0400, David Velazquez wrote: > > > > Please, pardon me if this seems too long, too much like a rant, or just > > > the > > > > wrong place for this. It's just something I've had in my head as of late. > > > > I've sent it to this list only for the reason that this is the project I > > > > would like to help out. Not everything in here applies to Yorba, however, > > > I > > > > felt it essential so people knew where I was coming from. > > > > > > > > I've been an Ubuntu user on and off for a while now and I've always > > > wanted > > > > to actively contribute to an open source/free software project. > > > > Unfortunately, most of the time the calls for help are for developers or > > > > translators. Unfortunately, I know no other languages and am therefore > > > quite > > > > useless on both fronts. I do, however, enjoy writing (as will be evident > > > by > > > > the time I'm done here). For this reason I feel like I could help out > > > > projects with documentation efforts. Even if most users will never read > > > the > > > > documentation provided it always seems to make the project look more > > > > polished and professional. Usually when it gets right down to it I get > > > put > > > > off by one thing or another though, the most common of which seems to be > > > how > > > > to make that leap from spectator and user to contributor. > > > > > > > > Often it seems open source projects are spread out on many different > > > sites > > > > from Launchpad to Trac to personal websites and a mixture of all three. > > > > This, coupled with what at first glance seems like a closed off > > > community, > > > > can present an insurmountable hurdle to the prospective volunteer. In my > > > > personal experience I see opportunities for assistance, but no clear cut > > > way > > > > of getting information on where to begin, what to do, or a way of > > > > collaborating with others so work is not done and redone. Trac might work > > > > well for developers, but it leaves the lowly folk like me out in the > > > dark. > > > > Wanting to contribute but not knowing how. Shotwells' own page welcomes > > > > contributions in the form of artwork, documentation, and more, but to the > > > > common reader leaves no other information in the form of how to get > > > started, > > > > what needs working on, or any other information. > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what I'm requesting here, other than a more defined path for > > > > people like me who wish to contribute but might not know where to get > > > > started or what to get started on. In a broader sense a place for people > > > > like me to find tasks that can be done and collaborate on them until they > > > > reach that goal is what comes to mind. A volunteers center of sorts. > > > > > > > > I believe there are many others like me who would love to help out their > > > > favorite project, but due to the very nature of such software they would > > > > like to help out find it difficult to do so. Centralizing software (which > > > > Yorba has so nicely done!), laying out defined and specific things which > > > > need doing (for us non-developers), and providing a strong starting point > > > > with information on how to get started and where to go for help should > > > all > > > > serve to increase the (long term) amount of volunteers software like this > > > > receives. > > > > > > > > In short, it's tough to dive head first in and help out wherever help is > > > > needed. I'm here and would love to contribute to any of Yorbas projects > > > with > > > > documentation (since this is about all I can do) if I only knew where to > > > > start. > > > > > > Dave, > > > > > > A possible start would be to contribute Shotwell documentation to the > > > Ubuntu Manual project [1]. The project has already delivered a first > > > version for Lucid so there is a complete structure in place. Once > > > written, that documentation could be made generic and transformed into a > > > standalone Shotwell guide. > > > > > > [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual > > > > > > Bruno > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Shotwell mailing list > > > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > > > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shotwell mailing list > > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > > From bengt at thuree.com Sun May 30 05:51:11 2010 From: bengt at thuree.com (Bengt Thuree) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 15:51:11 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: <1275197495.8816.11.camel@antiloop> References: <1275130247.1589.4.camel@nuuk> <1275197495.8816.11.camel@antiloop> Message-ID: <4550.59.154.63.92.1275198671.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> And I just wanted to add that as popular as Ubuntu is, I think it is of a higher priority to get a good Help text for Shotwell which is distribution independent. Would also be good to have a Shotwell guide (look at GnuCash Guide (1)) The distribution specific documentations should hopefully not go to much into details, but refer to the detailed Shotwell documentation (Help text, as well as various guides or whatever) which will be updated by the Shotwell team. Just in case you do not have this information about Mallard (GNOME 3.0 help system) check this link (2) 1) http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.0/C/gnucash-guide/ 2) http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/tenminutes.html /Bengt Den S?, 2010-05-30, 15:31 skrev Mattias P?ldaru: > Forgot to add before, Conglomerate seems to be a nice DocBook editor: > http://www.conglomerate.org/ > > > Mattias >> >> >> >> You might want to read GNOME documentation Handbook, they use DocBook >> format: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gdp-handbook/stable/index.html.en >> >> Also, Shotwell could use GNOME for both application and documentation >> translations, it works rather well and translations there are definitely >> of better quality than for example in launchpad. >> >> >> Regards >> Mattias >> >> >> >> ??hel kenal p??eval, P, 2010-05-30 kell 00:23, kirjutas David Velazquez: >> > Hi Bengt, Bruno. I had not seen ticket #1143 at all. It looks like a >> project >> > indeed and I'd be happy to try and tackle it. I'm not experienced in >> using >> > DocBook format or Mallard as the ticket mentions, but looking at them >> > briefly it seems it might not be too hard to wrap my head around it. >> > >> > Regarding the Ubuntu Manual project, it doesn't seem as if they're >> > requesting documentation on software yet, do you think they would >> still >> > accept it or even want it done? I see they're using TexLive which >> appears to >> > be an alternative to both DocBook and Mallard. >> > >> > I wouldn't mind getting started on writing out more stuff for Shotwell >> (or >> > any of Yorbas others projects), but which one to go with? TexLive, >> DocBook, >> > or Mallard (if they are indeed alternatives to one another). A goal >> should >> > be, I think, for anything that's done to be able to be used in as many >> ways >> > as possible. For example: Something done as a guide to download off of >> > Shotwells site should (in an ideal world) be able to just be tossed >> into the >> > Ubuntu Manual project should they request stuff on software. >> > >> > Thanks for your thoughts on this. Hopefully I might be on my way to a >> > workable project. >> > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Bruno Girin >> wrote: >> > >> > > On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 04:32 -0400, David Velazquez wrote: >> > > > Please, pardon me if this seems too long, too much like a rant, or >> just >> > > the >> > > > wrong place for this. It's just something I've had in my head as >> of late. >> > > > I've sent it to this list only for the reason that this is the >> project I >> > > > would like to help out. Not everything in here applies to Yorba, >> however, >> > > I >> > > > felt it essential so people knew where I was coming from. >> > > > >> > > > I've been an Ubuntu user on and off for a while now and I've >> always >> > > wanted >> > > > to actively contribute to an open source/free software project. >> > > > Unfortunately, most of the time the calls for help are for >> developers or >> > > > translators. Unfortunately, I know no other languages and am >> therefore >> > > quite >> > > > useless on both fronts. I do, however, enjoy writing (as will be >> evident >> > > by >> > > > the time I'm done here). For this reason I feel like I could help >> out >> > > > projects with documentation efforts. Even if most users will never >> read >> > > the >> > > > documentation provided it always seems to make the project look >> more >> > > > polished and professional. Usually when it gets right down to it I >> get >> > > put >> > > > off by one thing or another though, the most common of which seems >> to be >> > > how >> > > > to make that leap from spectator and user to contributor. >> > > > >> > > > Often it seems open source projects are spread out on many >> different >> > > sites >> > > > from Launchpad to Trac to personal websites and a mixture of all >> three. >> > > > This, coupled with what at first glance seems like a closed off >> > > community, >> > > > can present an insurmountable hurdle to the prospective volunteer. >> In my >> > > > personal experience I see opportunities for assistance, but no >> clear cut >> > > way >> > > > of getting information on where to begin, what to do, or a way of >> > > > collaborating with others so work is not done and redone. Trac >> might work >> > > > well for developers, but it leaves the lowly folk like me out in >> the >> > > dark. >> > > > Wanting to contribute but not knowing how. Shotwells' own page >> welcomes >> > > > contributions in the form of artwork, documentation, and more, but >> to the >> > > > common reader leaves no other information in the form of how to >> get >> > > started, >> > > > what needs working on, or any other information. >> > > > >> > > > I'm not sure what I'm requesting here, other than a more defined >> path for >> > > > people like me who wish to contribute but might not know where to >> get >> > > > started or what to get started on. In a broader sense a place for >> people >> > > > like me to find tasks that can be done and collaborate on them >> until they >> > > > reach that goal is what comes to mind. A volunteers center of >> sorts. >> > > > >> > > > I believe there are many others like me who would love to help out >> their >> > > > favorite project, but due to the very nature of such software they >> would >> > > > like to help out find it difficult to do so. Centralizing software >> (which >> > > > Yorba has so nicely done!), laying out defined and specific things >> which >> > > > need doing (for us non-developers), and providing a strong >> starting point >> > > > with information on how to get started and where to go for help >> should >> > > all >> > > > serve to increase the (long term) amount of volunteers software >> like this >> > > > receives. >> > > > >> > > > In short, it's tough to dive head first in and help out wherever >> help is >> > > > needed. I'm here and would love to contribute to any of Yorbas >> projects >> > > with >> > > > documentation (since this is about all I can do) if I only knew >> where to >> > > > start. >> > > >> > > Dave, >> > > >> > > A possible start would be to contribute Shotwell documentation to >> the >> > > Ubuntu Manual project [1]. The project has already delivered a first >> > > version for Lucid so there is a complete structure in place. Once >> > > written, that documentation could be made generic and transformed >> into a >> > > standalone Shotwell guide. >> > > >> > > [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual >> > > >> > > Bruno >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Shotwell mailing list >> > > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org >> > > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Shotwell mailing list >> > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org >> > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > -- Bengt Thuree bengt at thuree.com From david.velazquez08 at gmail.com Sun May 30 06:05:56 2010 From: david.velazquez08 at gmail.com (David Velazquez) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 02:05:56 -0400 Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: <1275197137.8816.7.camel@antiloop> References: <1275130247.1589.4.camel@nuuk> <1275197137.8816.7.camel@antiloop> Message-ID: Hi Mattias, thanks for sharing the GNOME doc. handbook. Far more goes into this than I ever would have guessed. I'll need to take a much closer look in the morning. Conglomerate does look nice also. Anything which eases the burden of marking stuff up myself is appreciated. I think tomorrow I'll have a go at getting DocBook onto my system and playing around with it. If GNOME uses it, it only makes sense that a program that integrates so well with it should also. On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Mattias P?ldaru wrote: > You might want to read GNOME documentation Handbook, they use DocBook > format: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gdp-handbook/stable/index.html.en > > Also, Shotwell could use GNOME for both application and documentation > translations, it works rather well and translations there are definitely > of better quality than for example in launchpad. > > > Regards > Mattias > > > > ?hel kenal p?eval, P, 2010-05-30 kell 00:23, kirjutas David Velazquez: > > Hi Bengt, Bruno. I had not seen ticket #1143 at all. It looks like a > project > > indeed and I'd be happy to try and tackle it. I'm not experienced in > using > > DocBook format or Mallard as the ticket mentions, but looking at them > > briefly it seems it might not be too hard to wrap my head around it. > > > > Regarding the Ubuntu Manual project, it doesn't seem as if they're > > requesting documentation on software yet, do you think they would still > > accept it or even want it done? I see they're using TexLive which appears > to > > be an alternative to both DocBook and Mallard. > > > > I wouldn't mind getting started on writing out more stuff for Shotwell > (or > > any of Yorbas others projects), but which one to go with? TexLive, > DocBook, > > or Mallard (if they are indeed alternatives to one another). A goal > should > > be, I think, for anything that's done to be able to be used in as many > ways > > as possible. For example: Something done as a guide to download off of > > Shotwells site should (in an ideal world) be able to just be tossed into > the > > Ubuntu Manual project should they request stuff on software. > > > > Thanks for your thoughts on this. Hopefully I might be on my way to a > > workable project. > > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Bruno Girin > wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 04:32 -0400, David Velazquez wrote: > > > > Please, pardon me if this seems too long, too much like a rant, or > just > > > the > > > > wrong place for this. It's just something I've had in my head as of > late. > > > > I've sent it to this list only for the reason that this is the > project I > > > > would like to help out. Not everything in here applies to Yorba, > however, > > > I > > > > felt it essential so people knew where I was coming from. > > > > > > > > I've been an Ubuntu user on and off for a while now and I've always > > > wanted > > > > to actively contribute to an open source/free software project. > > > > Unfortunately, most of the time the calls for help are for developers > or > > > > translators. Unfortunately, I know no other languages and am > therefore > > > quite > > > > useless on both fronts. I do, however, enjoy writing (as will be > evident > > > by > > > > the time I'm done here). For this reason I feel like I could help out > > > > projects with documentation efforts. Even if most users will never > read > > > the > > > > documentation provided it always seems to make the project look more > > > > polished and professional. Usually when it gets right down to it I > get > > > put > > > > off by one thing or another though, the most common of which seems to > be > > > how > > > > to make that leap from spectator and user to contributor. > > > > > > > > Often it seems open source projects are spread out on many different > > > sites > > > > from Launchpad to Trac to personal websites and a mixture of all > three. > > > > This, coupled with what at first glance seems like a closed off > > > community, > > > > can present an insurmountable hurdle to the prospective volunteer. In > my > > > > personal experience I see opportunities for assistance, but no clear > cut > > > way > > > > of getting information on where to begin, what to do, or a way of > > > > collaborating with others so work is not done and redone. Trac might > work > > > > well for developers, but it leaves the lowly folk like me out in the > > > dark. > > > > Wanting to contribute but not knowing how. Shotwells' own page > welcomes > > > > contributions in the form of artwork, documentation, and more, but to > the > > > > common reader leaves no other information in the form of how to get > > > started, > > > > what needs working on, or any other information. > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what I'm requesting here, other than a more defined path > for > > > > people like me who wish to contribute but might not know where to get > > > > started or what to get started on. In a broader sense a place for > people > > > > like me to find tasks that can be done and collaborate on them until > they > > > > reach that goal is what comes to mind. A volunteers center of sorts. > > > > > > > > I believe there are many others like me who would love to help out > their > > > > favorite project, but due to the very nature of such software they > would > > > > like to help out find it difficult to do so. Centralizing software > (which > > > > Yorba has so nicely done!), laying out defined and specific things > which > > > > need doing (for us non-developers), and providing a strong starting > point > > > > with information on how to get started and where to go for help > should > > > all > > > > serve to increase the (long term) amount of volunteers software like > this > > > > receives. > > > > > > > > In short, it's tough to dive head first in and help out wherever help > is > > > > needed. I'm here and would love to contribute to any of Yorbas > projects > > > with > > > > documentation (since this is about all I can do) if I only knew where > to > > > > start. > > > > > > Dave, > > > > > > A possible start would be to contribute Shotwell documentation to the > > > Ubuntu Manual project [1]. The project has already delivered a first > > > version for Lucid so there is a complete structure in place. Once > > > written, that documentation could be made generic and transformed into > a > > > standalone Shotwell guide. > > > > > > [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual > > > > > > Bruno > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Shotwell mailing list > > > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > > > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shotwell mailing list > > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > > > From bengt at thuree.com Sun May 30 06:14:58 2010 From: bengt at thuree.com (Bengt Thuree) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 16:14:58 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: References: <1275130247.1589.4.camel@nuuk> <1275197137.8816.7.camel@antiloop> Message-ID: <18392.59.154.63.92.1275200098.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> Regarding Conglomerate, a few years ago when I was helping GnuCash with their guide, I ended up using a windows tool instead. Had much better features, formatting, and did not crash. I forgot the name though, but it was a free tool, or 30 days trial thing. But do try conglomerat, or vi :) Very easy to test, since it is just to fire up Yelp (Gnome help text displayer) with your text file. /Bengt Den S?, 2010-05-30, 16:05 skrev David Velazquez: > Hi Mattias, thanks for sharing the GNOME doc. handbook. Far more goes into > this than I ever would have guessed. I'll need to take a much closer look > in > the morning. Conglomerate does look nice also. Anything which eases the > burden of marking stuff up myself is appreciated. I think tomorrow I'll > have > a go at getting DocBook onto my system and playing around with it. If > GNOME > uses it, it only makes sense that a program that integrates so well with > it > should also. > > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Mattias P?ldaru > wrote: > >> You might want to read GNOME documentation Handbook, they use DocBook >> format: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gdp-handbook/stable/index.html.en >> >> Also, Shotwell could use GNOME for both application and documentation >> translations, it works rather well and translations there are definitely >> of better quality than for example in launchpad. >> >> >> Regards >> Mattias >> >> >> >> ?hel kenal p?eval, P, 2010-05-30 kell 00:23, kirjutas David Velazquez: >> > Hi Bengt, Bruno. I had not seen ticket #1143 at all. It looks like a >> project >> > indeed and I'd be happy to try and tackle it. I'm not experienced in >> using >> > DocBook format or Mallard as the ticket mentions, but looking at them >> > briefly it seems it might not be too hard to wrap my head around it. >> > >> > Regarding the Ubuntu Manual project, it doesn't seem as if they're >> > requesting documentation on software yet, do you think they would >> still >> > accept it or even want it done? I see they're using TexLive which >> appears >> to >> > be an alternative to both DocBook and Mallard. >> > >> > I wouldn't mind getting started on writing out more stuff for Shotwell >> (or >> > any of Yorbas others projects), but which one to go with? TexLive, >> DocBook, >> > or Mallard (if they are indeed alternatives to one another). A goal >> should >> > be, I think, for anything that's done to be able to be used in as many >> ways >> > as possible. For example: Something done as a guide to download off of >> > Shotwells site should (in an ideal world) be able to just be tossed >> into >> the >> > Ubuntu Manual project should they request stuff on software. >> > >> > Thanks for your thoughts on this. Hopefully I might be on my way to a >> > workable project. >> > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Bruno Girin >> wrote: >> > >> > > On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 04:32 -0400, David Velazquez wrote: >> > > > Please, pardon me if this seems too long, too much like a rant, or >> just >> > > the >> > > > wrong place for this. It's just something I've had in my head as >> of >> late. >> > > > I've sent it to this list only for the reason that this is the >> project I >> > > > would like to help out. Not everything in here applies to Yorba, >> however, >> > > I >> > > > felt it essential so people knew where I was coming from. >> > > > >> > > > I've been an Ubuntu user on and off for a while now and I've >> always >> > > wanted >> > > > to actively contribute to an open source/free software project. >> > > > Unfortunately, most of the time the calls for help are for >> developers >> or >> > > > translators. Unfortunately, I know no other languages and am >> therefore >> > > quite >> > > > useless on both fronts. I do, however, enjoy writing (as will be >> evident >> > > by >> > > > the time I'm done here). For this reason I feel like I could help >> out >> > > > projects with documentation efforts. Even if most users will never >> read >> > > the >> > > > documentation provided it always seems to make the project look >> more >> > > > polished and professional. Usually when it gets right down to it I >> get >> > > put >> > > > off by one thing or another though, the most common of which seems >> to >> be >> > > how >> > > > to make that leap from spectator and user to contributor. >> > > > >> > > > Often it seems open source projects are spread out on many >> different >> > > sites >> > > > from Launchpad to Trac to personal websites and a mixture of all >> three. >> > > > This, coupled with what at first glance seems like a closed off >> > > community, >> > > > can present an insurmountable hurdle to the prospective volunteer. >> In >> my >> > > > personal experience I see opportunities for assistance, but no >> clear >> cut >> > > way >> > > > of getting information on where to begin, what to do, or a way of >> > > > collaborating with others so work is not done and redone. Trac >> might >> work >> > > > well for developers, but it leaves the lowly folk like me out in >> the >> > > dark. >> > > > Wanting to contribute but not knowing how. Shotwells' own page >> welcomes >> > > > contributions in the form of artwork, documentation, and more, but >> to >> the >> > > > common reader leaves no other information in the form of how to >> get >> > > started, >> > > > what needs working on, or any other information. >> > > > >> > > > I'm not sure what I'm requesting here, other than a more defined >> path >> for >> > > > people like me who wish to contribute but might not know where to >> get >> > > > started or what to get started on. In a broader sense a place for >> people >> > > > like me to find tasks that can be done and collaborate on them >> until >> they >> > > > reach that goal is what comes to mind. A volunteers center of >> sorts. >> > > > >> > > > I believe there are many others like me who would love to help out >> their >> > > > favorite project, but due to the very nature of such software they >> would >> > > > like to help out find it difficult to do so. Centralizing software >> (which >> > > > Yorba has so nicely done!), laying out defined and specific things >> which >> > > > need doing (for us non-developers), and providing a strong >> starting >> point >> > > > with information on how to get started and where to go for help >> should >> > > all >> > > > serve to increase the (long term) amount of volunteers software >> like >> this >> > > > receives. >> > > > >> > > > In short, it's tough to dive head first in and help out wherever >> help >> is >> > > > needed. I'm here and would love to contribute to any of Yorbas >> projects >> > > with >> > > > documentation (since this is about all I can do) if I only knew >> where >> to >> > > > start. >> > > >> > > Dave, >> > > >> > > A possible start would be to contribute Shotwell documentation to >> the >> > > Ubuntu Manual project [1]. The project has already delivered a first >> > > version for Lucid so there is a complete structure in place. Once >> > > written, that documentation could be made generic and transformed >> into >> a >> > > standalone Shotwell guide. >> > > >> > > [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual >> > > >> > > Bruno >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Shotwell mailing list >> > > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org >> > > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Shotwell mailing list >> > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org >> > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > > -- Bengt Thuree bengt at thuree.com From david.velazquez08 at gmail.com Sun May 30 06:22:27 2010 From: david.velazquez08 at gmail.com (David Velazquez) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 02:22:27 -0400 Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: <4550.59.154.63.92.1275198671.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> References: <1275130247.1589.4.camel@nuuk> <1275197495.8816.11.camel@antiloop> <4550.59.154.63.92.1275198671.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> Message-ID: Hey Bengt, something distribution independent isn't a bad idea at all. Integrating nicely with GNOME would probably work well. I'm a bit confused about what you mean by the guide and distro specific documentation. What would distro specific documentation be that a guide or help text would not be? I agree though that the Shotwell team/website should be the ultimate source of information. Having too many texts scattered around is bound to create confusion for the user. Right now Help -> Contents in Shotwell links to the Shotwell wiki whereas the Help -> Contents in a program like Evince brings up a manual on the desktop. I imagine this would be the distro specific information you're talking about, but it appears to be pretty in depth. To briefly summarize, right now what I think we have come up with is a general idea to use Mallard or DocBook as mentioned earlier. Probably Mallard as it looks like it's the future for GNOME even though it might be slightly harder to wrap a novices head around. We also have an idea that the guide should be distro independent and anything in Ubuntu (lets say) should direct people to the formal Shotwell guide. I'm still a bit unsure on that last part since I've never done anything like this before and am not sure what the protocol is. On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Bengt Thuree wrote: > And I just wanted to add that as popular as Ubuntu is, I think it is of a > higher priority to get a good Help text for Shotwell which is distribution > independent. > > Would also be good to have a Shotwell guide (look at GnuCash Guide (1)) > > The distribution specific documentations should hopefully not go to much > into details, but refer to the detailed Shotwell documentation (Help text, > as well as various guides or whatever) which will be updated by the > Shotwell team. > > Just in case you do not have this information about Mallard (GNOME 3.0 > help system) check this link (2) > > 1) http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.0/C/gnucash-guide/ > 2) http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/tenminutes.html > > /Bengt > > Den S?, 2010-05-30, 15:31 skrev Mattias P?ldaru: > > Forgot to add before, Conglomerate seems to be a nice DocBook editor: > > http://www.conglomerate.org/ > > > > > > Mattias > >> > >> > >> > >> You might want to read GNOME documentation Handbook, they use DocBook > >> format: > http://library.gnome.org/devel/gdp-handbook/stable/index.html.en > >> > >> Also, Shotwell could use GNOME for both application and documentation > >> translations, it works rather well and translations there are definitely > >> of better quality than for example in launchpad. > >> > >> > >> Regards > >> Mattias > >> > >> > >> > >> ??hel kenal p??eval, P, 2010-05-30 kell 00:23, kirjutas David Velazquez: > >> > Hi Bengt, Bruno. I had not seen ticket #1143 at all. It looks like a > >> project > >> > indeed and I'd be happy to try and tackle it. I'm not experienced in > >> using > >> > DocBook format or Mallard as the ticket mentions, but looking at them > >> > briefly it seems it might not be too hard to wrap my head around it. > >> > > >> > Regarding the Ubuntu Manual project, it doesn't seem as if they're > >> > requesting documentation on software yet, do you think they would > >> still > >> > accept it or even want it done? I see they're using TexLive which > >> appears to > >> > be an alternative to both DocBook and Mallard. > >> > > >> > I wouldn't mind getting started on writing out more stuff for Shotwell > >> (or > >> > any of Yorbas others projects), but which one to go with? TexLive, > >> DocBook, > >> > or Mallard (if they are indeed alternatives to one another). A goal > >> should > >> > be, I think, for anything that's done to be able to be used in as many > >> ways > >> > as possible. For example: Something done as a guide to download off of > >> > Shotwells site should (in an ideal world) be able to just be tossed > >> into the > >> > Ubuntu Manual project should they request stuff on software. > >> > > >> > Thanks for your thoughts on this. Hopefully I might be on my way to a > >> > workable project. > >> > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Bruno Girin > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > > On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 04:32 -0400, David Velazquez wrote: > >> > > > Please, pardon me if this seems too long, too much like a rant, or > >> just > >> > > the > >> > > > wrong place for this. It's just something I've had in my head as > >> of late. > >> > > > I've sent it to this list only for the reason that this is the > >> project I > >> > > > would like to help out. Not everything in here applies to Yorba, > >> however, > >> > > I > >> > > > felt it essential so people knew where I was coming from. > >> > > > > >> > > > I've been an Ubuntu user on and off for a while now and I've > >> always > >> > > wanted > >> > > > to actively contribute to an open source/free software project. > >> > > > Unfortunately, most of the time the calls for help are for > >> developers or > >> > > > translators. Unfortunately, I know no other languages and am > >> therefore > >> > > quite > >> > > > useless on both fronts. I do, however, enjoy writing (as will be > >> evident > >> > > by > >> > > > the time I'm done here). For this reason I feel like I could help > >> out > >> > > > projects with documentation efforts. Even if most users will never > >> read > >> > > the > >> > > > documentation provided it always seems to make the project look > >> more > >> > > > polished and professional. Usually when it gets right down to it I > >> get > >> > > put > >> > > > off by one thing or another though, the most common of which seems > >> to be > >> > > how > >> > > > to make that leap from spectator and user to contributor. > >> > > > > >> > > > Often it seems open source projects are spread out on many > >> different > >> > > sites > >> > > > from Launchpad to Trac to personal websites and a mixture of all > >> three. > >> > > > This, coupled with what at first glance seems like a closed off > >> > > community, > >> > > > can present an insurmountable hurdle to the prospective volunteer. > >> In my > >> > > > personal experience I see opportunities for assistance, but no > >> clear cut > >> > > way > >> > > > of getting information on where to begin, what to do, or a way of > >> > > > collaborating with others so work is not done and redone. Trac > >> might work > >> > > > well for developers, but it leaves the lowly folk like me out in > >> the > >> > > dark. > >> > > > Wanting to contribute but not knowing how. Shotwells' own page > >> welcomes > >> > > > contributions in the form of artwork, documentation, and more, but > >> to the > >> > > > common reader leaves no other information in the form of how to > >> get > >> > > started, > >> > > > what needs working on, or any other information. > >> > > > > >> > > > I'm not sure what I'm requesting here, other than a more defined > >> path for > >> > > > people like me who wish to contribute but might not know where to > >> get > >> > > > started or what to get started on. In a broader sense a place for > >> people > >> > > > like me to find tasks that can be done and collaborate on them > >> until they > >> > > > reach that goal is what comes to mind. A volunteers center of > >> sorts. > >> > > > > >> > > > I believe there are many others like me who would love to help out > >> their > >> > > > favorite project, but due to the very nature of such software they > >> would > >> > > > like to help out find it difficult to do so. Centralizing software > >> (which > >> > > > Yorba has so nicely done!), laying out defined and specific things > >> which > >> > > > need doing (for us non-developers), and providing a strong > >> starting point > >> > > > with information on how to get started and where to go for help > >> should > >> > > all > >> > > > serve to increase the (long term) amount of volunteers software > >> like this > >> > > > receives. > >> > > > > >> > > > In short, it's tough to dive head first in and help out wherever > >> help is > >> > > > needed. I'm here and would love to contribute to any of Yorbas > >> projects > >> > > with > >> > > > documentation (since this is about all I can do) if I only knew > >> where to > >> > > > start. > >> > > > >> > > Dave, > >> > > > >> > > A possible start would be to contribute Shotwell documentation to > >> the > >> > > Ubuntu Manual project [1]. The project has already delivered a first > >> > > version for Lucid so there is a complete structure in place. Once > >> > > written, that documentation could be made generic and transformed > >> into a > >> > > standalone Shotwell guide. > >> > > > >> > > [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual > >> > > > >> > > Bruno > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > Shotwell mailing list > >> > > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > >> > > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Shotwell mailing list > >> > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > >> > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shotwell mailing list > > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > > > > > -- > Bengt Thuree bengt at thuree.com > > From mahfiaz at gmail.com Sun May 30 07:05:10 2010 From: mahfiaz at gmail.com (Mattias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=F5ldaru?=) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 10:05:10 +0300 Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: References: <1275130247.1589.4.camel@nuuk> <1275197495.8816.11.camel@antiloop> <4550.59.154.63.92.1275198671.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> Message-ID: <1275203110.10738.46.camel@antiloop> ?hel kenal p?eval, P, 2010-05-30 kell 02:22, kirjutas David Velazquez: > Hey Bengt, something distribution independent isn't a bad idea at all. > Integrating nicely with GNOME would probably work well. I'm a bit confused > about what you mean by the guide and distro specific documentation. What > would distro specific documentation be that a guide or help text would not > be? I agree though that the Shotwell team/website should be the ultimate > source of information. Having too many texts scattered around is bound to > create confusion for the user. Right now Help -> Contents in Shotwell links > to the Shotwell wiki whereas the Help -> Contents in a program like Evince > brings up a manual on the desktop. I imagine this would be the distro > specific information you're talking about, but it appears to be pretty in > depth. I suppose Bengt is mistaken here. Using GNOME tools and maybe framework is distribution independent. GNOME is not a distribution. Ubuntu extensively uses GNOME and GNOME documentation (same as many other distributions). In contrary, doing things only for Ubuntu would be one-distribution solution. > > To briefly summarize, right now what I think we have come up with is a > general idea to use Mallard or DocBook as mentioned earlier. Probably > Mallard as it looks like it's the future for GNOME even though it might be > slightly harder to wrap a novices head around. We also have an idea that the > guide should be distro independent and anything in Ubuntu (lets say) should > direct people to the formal Shotwell guide. I'm still a bit unsure on that > last part since I've never done anything like this before and am not sure > what the protocol is. >From DocBook you get easily PDF and HTML output, which is the most (distribution) independent way to share documentation, AFAIK. (I think this would apply to mallard as well, maybe some additional work is required). http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/DocBookPublishingTools Why GNOME prefers to distribute most documentation along with programs, is that not all computers are connected to Internet, while used, and online documentation would not be available then. Mattias > > > > > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Bengt Thuree wrote: > > > And I just wanted to add that as popular as Ubuntu is, I think it is of a > > higher priority to get a good Help text for Shotwell which is distribution > > independent. > > > > Would also be good to have a Shotwell guide (look at GnuCash Guide (1)) > > > > The distribution specific documentations should hopefully not go to much > > into details, but refer to the detailed Shotwell documentation (Help text, > > as well as various guides or whatever) which will be updated by the > > Shotwell team. > > > > Just in case you do not have this information about Mallard (GNOME 3.0 > > help system) check this link (2) > > > > 1) http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.0/C/gnucash-guide/ > > 2) http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/tenminutes.html > > > > /Bengt > > > > Den S?, 2010-05-30, 15:31 skrev Mattias P?ldaru: > > > Forgot to add before, Conglomerate seems to be a nice DocBook editor: > > > http://www.conglomerate.org/ > > > > > > > > > Mattias > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> You might want to read GNOME documentation Handbook, they use DocBook > > >> format: > > http://library.gnome.org/devel/gdp-handbook/stable/index.html.en > > >> > > >> Also, Shotwell could use GNOME for both application and documentation > > >> translations, it works rather well and translations there are definitely > > >> of better quality than for example in launchpad. > > >> > > >> > > >> Regards > > >> Mattias > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ??hel kenal p??eval, P, 2010-05-30 kell 00:23, kirjutas David Velazquez: > > >> > Hi Bengt, Bruno. I had not seen ticket #1143 at all. It looks like a > > >> project > > >> > indeed and I'd be happy to try and tackle it. I'm not experienced in > > >> using > > >> > DocBook format or Mallard as the ticket mentions, but looking at them > > >> > briefly it seems it might not be too hard to wrap my head around it. > > >> > > > >> > Regarding the Ubuntu Manual project, it doesn't seem as if they're > > >> > requesting documentation on software yet, do you think they would > > >> still > > >> > accept it or even want it done? I see they're using TexLive which > > >> appears to > > >> > be an alternative to both DocBook and Mallard. > > >> > > > >> > I wouldn't mind getting started on writing out more stuff for Shotwell > > >> (or > > >> > any of Yorbas others projects), but which one to go with? TexLive, > > >> DocBook, > > >> > or Mallard (if they are indeed alternatives to one another). A goal > > >> should > > >> > be, I think, for anything that's done to be able to be used in as many > > >> ways > > >> > as possible. For example: Something done as a guide to download off of > > >> > Shotwells site should (in an ideal world) be able to just be tossed > > >> into the > > >> > Ubuntu Manual project should they request stuff on software. > > >> > > > >> > Thanks for your thoughts on this. Hopefully I might be on my way to a > > >> > workable project. > > >> > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Bruno Girin > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 04:32 -0400, David Velazquez wrote: > > >> > > > Please, pardon me if this seems too long, too much like a rant, or > > >> just > > >> > > the > > >> > > > wrong place for this. It's just something I've had in my head as > > >> of late. > > >> > > > I've sent it to this list only for the reason that this is the > > >> project I > > >> > > > would like to help out. Not everything in here applies to Yorba, > > >> however, > > >> > > I > > >> > > > felt it essential so people knew where I was coming from. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I've been an Ubuntu user on and off for a while now and I've > > >> always > > >> > > wanted > > >> > > > to actively contribute to an open source/free software project. > > >> > > > Unfortunately, most of the time the calls for help are for > > >> developers or > > >> > > > translators. Unfortunately, I know no other languages and am > > >> therefore > > >> > > quite > > >> > > > useless on both fronts. I do, however, enjoy writing (as will be > > >> evident > > >> > > by > > >> > > > the time I'm done here). For this reason I feel like I could help > > >> out > > >> > > > projects with documentation efforts. Even if most users will never > > >> read > > >> > > the > > >> > > > documentation provided it always seems to make the project look > > >> more > > >> > > > polished and professional. Usually when it gets right down to it I > > >> get > > >> > > put > > >> > > > off by one thing or another though, the most common of which seems > > >> to be > > >> > > how > > >> > > > to make that leap from spectator and user to contributor. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Often it seems open source projects are spread out on many > > >> different > > >> > > sites > > >> > > > from Launchpad to Trac to personal websites and a mixture of all > > >> three. > > >> > > > This, coupled with what at first glance seems like a closed off > > >> > > community, > > >> > > > can present an insurmountable hurdle to the prospective volunteer. > > >> In my > > >> > > > personal experience I see opportunities for assistance, but no > > >> clear cut > > >> > > way > > >> > > > of getting information on where to begin, what to do, or a way of > > >> > > > collaborating with others so work is not done and redone. Trac > > >> might work > > >> > > > well for developers, but it leaves the lowly folk like me out in > > >> the > > >> > > dark. > > >> > > > Wanting to contribute but not knowing how. Shotwells' own page > > >> welcomes > > >> > > > contributions in the form of artwork, documentation, and more, but > > >> to the > > >> > > > common reader leaves no other information in the form of how to > > >> get > > >> > > started, > > >> > > > what needs working on, or any other information. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I'm not sure what I'm requesting here, other than a more defined > > >> path for > > >> > > > people like me who wish to contribute but might not know where to > > >> get > > >> > > > started or what to get started on. In a broader sense a place for > > >> people > > >> > > > like me to find tasks that can be done and collaborate on them > > >> until they > > >> > > > reach that goal is what comes to mind. A volunteers center of > > >> sorts. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I believe there are many others like me who would love to help out > > >> their > > >> > > > favorite project, but due to the very nature of such software they > > >> would > > >> > > > like to help out find it difficult to do so. Centralizing software > > >> (which > > >> > > > Yorba has so nicely done!), laying out defined and specific things > > >> which > > >> > > > need doing (for us non-developers), and providing a strong > > >> starting point > > >> > > > with information on how to get started and where to go for help > > >> should > > >> > > all > > >> > > > serve to increase the (long term) amount of volunteers software > > >> like this > > >> > > > receives. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > In short, it's tough to dive head first in and help out wherever > > >> help is > > >> > > > needed. I'm here and would love to contribute to any of Yorbas > > >> projects > > >> > > with > > >> > > > documentation (since this is about all I can do) if I only knew > > >> where to > > >> > > > start. > > >> > > > > >> > > Dave, > > >> > > > > >> > > A possible start would be to contribute Shotwell documentation to > > >> the > > >> > > Ubuntu Manual project [1]. The project has already delivered a first > > >> > > version for Lucid so there is a complete structure in place. Once > > >> > > written, that documentation could be made generic and transformed > > >> into a > > >> > > standalone Shotwell guide. > > >> > > > > >> > > [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual > > >> > > > > >> > > Bruno > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > Shotwell mailing list > > >> > > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > > >> > > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > > >> > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > Shotwell mailing list > > >> > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > > >> > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > > >> > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Shotwell mailing list > > > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > > > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > > > > > > > > > -- > > Bengt Thuree bengt at thuree.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell From bengt at thuree.com Sun May 30 09:30:39 2010 From: bengt at thuree.com (Bengt Thuree) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 19:30:39 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: <1275203110.10738.46.camel@antiloop> References: <1275130247.1589.4.camel@nuuk> <1275197495.8816.11.camel@antiloop> <4550.59.154.63.92.1275198671.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> <1275203110.10738.46.camel@antiloop> Message-ID: <56405.59.154.63.92.1275211839.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> > > I suppose Bengt is mistaken here. > Using GNOME tools and maybe framework is distribution independent. > GNOME is not a distribution. Ubuntu extensively uses GNOME and GNOME > documentation (same as many other distributions). > In contrary, doing things only for Ubuntu would be one-distribution > solution. I was refering to contributing to the Ubuntu Manual project, which to me sounds like a distro specific documentation. >> To briefly summarize, right now what I think we have come up with is a >> general idea to use Mallard or DocBook as mentioned earlier. Probably >> Mallard as it looks like it's the future for GNOME even though it might >> be Yes, that would be my thoughts. Priority 1: Mallard based help system for Shotwell, which would reside on the local computer of the user. Fits in very nicely with the rest of GNOME help texts and various documentation. If there is a need for it, a Guide a la GnuCash would also be nice to have. That one helped a lot of GnuCash users... Just a thought here that Shotwell is still in early days of development, so we should bear that in mind when the various documentation is produced. That means that there is bound to be a number of changes in a short time... /Bengt Bengt Thuree bengt at thuree.com From brunogirin at gmail.com Sun May 30 11:11:41 2010 From: brunogirin at gmail.com (Bruno Girin) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 12:11:41 +0100 Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: <56405.59.154.63.92.1275211839.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> References: <1275130247.1589.4.camel@nuuk> <1275197495.8816.11.camel@antiloop> <4550.59.154.63.92.1275198671.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> <1275203110.10738.46.camel@antiloop> <56405.59.154.63.92.1275211839.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> Message-ID: <1275217901.1542.25.camel@nuuk> On Sun, 2010-05-30 at 19:30 +1000, Bengt Thuree wrote: > > > > I suppose Bengt is mistaken here. > > Using GNOME tools and maybe framework is distribution independent. > > GNOME is not a distribution. Ubuntu extensively uses GNOME and GNOME > > documentation (same as many other distributions). > > In contrary, doing things only for Ubuntu would be one-distribution > > solution. > > I was refering to contributing to the Ubuntu Manual project, which to me > sounds like a distro specific documentation. It is. I only mentioned it because it exists, has all the support processes needed for a new contributor and they will definitely need a section on Shotwell for 10.10. Of course, it would be a lot better to do generic documentation. > > > >> To briefly summarize, right now what I think we have come up with is a > >> general idea to use Mallard or DocBook as mentioned earlier. Probably > >> Mallard as it looks like it's the future for GNOME even though it might > >> be > > Yes, that would be my thoughts. > Priority 1: Mallard based help system for Shotwell, which would reside on > the local computer of the user. Fits in very nicely with the rest of GNOME > help texts and various documentation. Mallard is definitely the way to go as it is designed for interactive context-sensitive help where users get information page by page with links between them. DocBook on the other hand is better suited to printed material where you have a single large document split into chapters and sections. > > If there is a need for it, a Guide a la GnuCash would also be nice to have. > That one helped a lot of GnuCash users... > > Just a thought here that Shotwell is still in early days of development, > so we should bear that in mind when the various documentation is produced. > That means that there is bound to be a number of changes in a short > time... True but slightly out of date documentation is still better than no documentation. Besides Mallard is designed so that you can (and probably should) separate documentation for different functions into different files. So if you know that features X and Y are stable, you can finalise documentation for this, while leaving documentation for feature Z until it is stable. Bruno From brunogirin at gmail.com Sun May 30 12:02:44 2010 From: brunogirin at gmail.com (Bruno Girin) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 13:02:44 +0100 Subject: [Shotwell] Bug fixes (Was: Shotwell - Thoughts on work-flow and extensions) In-Reply-To: <4BFC18E4.40906@yorba.org> References: <4BFA9854.2050109@yorba.org> <1274732635.1591.239.camel@nuuk> <4BFC18E4.40906@yorba.org> Message-ID: <1275220964.1542.30.camel@nuuk> On Tue, 2010-05-25 at 11:37 -0700, Adam Dingle wrote: > #1954 show exposure bias in Extended Information I decided to have a go at solving this one. I now have working code but I also have a question: how are the .po files updated? Do you have to add new strings manually or is there a way to generate the list of translatable strings from the code? Bruno From brunogirin at gmail.com Sun May 30 12:25:52 2010 From: brunogirin at gmail.com (Bruno Girin) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 13:25:52 +0100 Subject: [Shotwell] Can't import from Camera in Shotwell trunk Message-ID: <1275222352.1542.36.camel@nuuk> Hi all, I just compiled and installed Shotwell from source to start trying to contribute bug fixes. When I connect my camera (Canon EOS 5D) and select "Open Shotwell Photo Manager", the camera doesn't appear in Shotwell and I can't import from it. When I open the folder in Nautilus, it opens gphoto2://[usb:001,005]/ and I can browse the camera's file system. Is there any setting I should use when compiling Shotwell to make this work or is it a bug? Thanks Bruno From robert.ancell at canonical.com Mon May 31 00:23:34 2010 From: robert.ancell at canonical.com (Robert Ancell) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 10:23:34 +1000 Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C030186.4050305@canonical.com> Hi all, I'm a GNOME Developer and work in the Ubuntu Desktop team. The help should definitely be written in Mallard format and I can confirm it is an order of magnitude easier that the old DocBook format! All you need is a recent version of Yelp (e.g. Ubuntu 9.10 or higher) and a text editor. The Mallard ten minute guide will teach you all you need: http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/tenminutes.html Here are some examples of Mallard help files: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gcalctool/tree/help/C http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/simple-scan/trunk/files/head%3A/help/C/ http://git.gnome.org/browse/gbrainy/tree/help/C Feel free to ask me any questions, you can also find me on #ubuntu-desktop on freenode as robert-ancell. --Robert On 29/05/10 18:32, David Velazquez wrote: > Please, pardon me if this seems too long, too much like a rant, or just the > wrong place for this. It's just something I've had in my head as of late. > I've sent it to this list only for the reason that this is the project I > would like to help out. Not everything in here applies to Yorba, however, I > felt it essential so people knew where I was coming from. > > I've been an Ubuntu user on and off for a while now and I've always wanted > to actively contribute to an open source/free software project. > Unfortunately, most of the time the calls for help are for developers or > translators. Unfortunately, I know no other languages and am therefore quite > useless on both fronts. I do, however, enjoy writing (as will be evident by > the time I'm done here). For this reason I feel like I could help out > projects with documentation efforts. Even if most users will never read the > documentation provided it always seems to make the project look more > polished and professional. Usually when it gets right down to it I get put > off by one thing or another though, the most common of which seems to be how > to make that leap from spectator and user to contributor. > > Often it seems open source projects are spread out on many different sites > from Launchpad to Trac to personal websites and a mixture of all three. > This, coupled with what at first glance seems like a closed off community, > can present an insurmountable hurdle to the prospective volunteer. In my > personal experience I see opportunities for assistance, but no clear cut way > of getting information on where to begin, what to do, or a way of > collaborating with others so work is not done and redone. Trac might work > well for developers, but it leaves the lowly folk like me out in the dark. > Wanting to contribute but not knowing how. Shotwells' own page welcomes > contributions in the form of artwork, documentation, and more, but to the > common reader leaves no other information in the form of how to get started, > what needs working on, or any other information. > > I'm not sure what I'm requesting here, other than a more defined path for > people like me who wish to contribute but might not know where to get > started or what to get started on. In a broader sense a place for people > like me to find tasks that can be done and collaborate on them until they > reach that goal is what comes to mind. A volunteers center of sorts. > > I believe there are many others like me who would love to help out their > favorite project, but due to the very nature of such software they would > like to help out find it difficult to do so. Centralizing software (which > Yorba has so nicely done!), laying out defined and specific things which > need doing (for us non-developers), and providing a strong starting point > with information on how to get started and where to go for help should all > serve to increase the (long term) amount of volunteers software like this > receives. > > In short, it's tough to dive head first in and help out wherever help is > needed. I'm here and would love to contribute to any of Yorbas projects with > documentation (since this is about all I can do) if I only knew where to > start. > > Dave > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > From david.velazquez08 at gmail.com Mon May 31 04:01:06 2010 From: david.velazquez08 at gmail.com (David Velazquez) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 00:01:06 -0400 Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: <56405.59.154.63.92.1275211839.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> References: <1275130247.1589.4.camel@nuuk> <1275197495.8816.11.camel@antiloop> <4550.59.154.63.92.1275198671.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> <1275203110.10738.46.camel@antiloop> <56405.59.154.63.92.1275211839.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> Message-ID: This bears remembering I think, a lot of things can change in Shotwell. Though it was early in the morning for me I remember reading that Mallard was especially useful in organizing things so that changes could be made easily. I hope that's what I read. On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 5:30 AM, Bengt Thuree wrote: > > Just a thought here that Shotwell is still in early days of development, > so we should bear that in mind when the various documentation is produced. > That means that there is bound to be a number of changes in a short > time... > > /Bengt > > Bengt Thuree bengt at thuree.com > > Bruno Sun. 2010-5-30 > It is. I only mentioned it because it exists, has all the support > processes needed for a new contributor and they will definitely need a > section on Shotwell for 10.10. Of course, it would be a lot better to do > generic documentation. I will definitely take a further look at contributing to the Ubuntu Manual project if I can get into things nicely. I've already perused the manual and handed it off to people to use. It's a great project! On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Robert Ancell wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm a GNOME Developer and work in the Ubuntu Desktop team. > > The help should definitely be written in Mallard format and I can > confirm it is an order of magnitude easier that the old DocBook format! > > All you need is a recent version of Yelp (e.g. Ubuntu 9.10 or higher) > and a text editor. > > The Mallard ten minute guide will teach you all you need: > http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/tenminutes.html > > Here are some examples of Mallard help files: > http://git.gnome.org/browse/gcalctool/tree/help/C > > http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/simple-scan/trunk/files/head%3A/help/C/ > http://git.gnome.org/browse/gbrainy/tree/help/C > > Feel free to ask me any questions, you can also find me on > #ubuntu-desktop on freenode as robert-ancell. > > --Robert Hey Robert, thanks for chiming in! It looks like Mallard will be the way to go. I appreciate the links to the guides and information. I'm sure I'll be stopping by ubuntu-desktop one of these days. Since it's been determined Mallard is the way to go I'll try and toy around with it over the next few days and see where I end up. I'm familiar with basic html so hopefully this won't be too hard to figure out. from Robert Ancell toshotwell at lists.yorba.org > dateSun, May 30, 2010 at 8:23 PM subjectRe: [Shotwell] Contributing to > Yorba/Shotwell mailing listshotwell.lists.yorba.org Filter messages from > this mailing listunsubscribeUnsubscribe from this mailing-list > hide details 8:23 PM (3 hours ago) > From david.velazquez08 at gmail.com Mon May 31 05:34:20 2010 From: david.velazquez08 at gmail.com (David Velazquez) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 01:34:20 -0400 Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: References: <1275130247.1589.4.camel@nuuk> <1275197495.8816.11.camel@antiloop> <4550.59.154.63.92.1275198671.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> <1275203110.10738.46.camel@antiloop> <56405.59.154.63.92.1275211839.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> Message-ID: Of course this is only a proof of concept, if you will, but I've managed to get it going and quite nicely. My first impressions are good. It will definitely take some getting used to considering I only dabbled in html many years ago. The hardest thing for me to understand will be the linking structure and the ability to have a second guide, but I'm hoping that will come naturally as I write more. Starting Page Starting Shotwell As I get time I hope to experiment with adding pictures On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:01 AM, David Velazquez < david.velazquez08 at gmail.com> wrote: > This bears remembering I think, a lot of things can change in Shotwell. > Though it was early in the morning for me I remember reading that Mallard > was especially useful in organizing things so that changes could be made > easily. I hope that's what I read. > > > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 5:30 AM, Bengt Thuree wrote: > >> >> Just a thought here that Shotwell is still in early days of development, >> so we should bear that in mind when the various documentation is produced. >> That means that there is bound to be a number of changes in a short >> time... >> >> /Bengt >> >> Bengt Thuree bengt at thuree.com >> >> > > Bruno Sun. 2010-5-30 > > > >> It is. I only mentioned it because it exists, has all the support >> processes needed for a new contributor and they will definitely need a >> section on Shotwell for 10.10. Of course, it would be a lot better to do >> generic documentation. > > > I will definitely take a further look at contributing to the Ubuntu Manual > project if I can get into things nicely. I've already perused the manual and > handed it off to people to use. It's a great project! > > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Robert Ancell < >> robert.ancell at canonical.com> wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I'm a GNOME Developer and work in the Ubuntu Desktop team. >> >> The help should definitely be written in Mallard format and I can >> confirm it is an order of magnitude easier that the old DocBook format! >> >> All you need is a recent version of Yelp (e.g. Ubuntu 9.10 or higher) >> and a text editor. >> >> The Mallard ten minute guide will teach you all you need: >> http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/tenminutes.html >> >> Here are some examples of Mallard help files: >> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gcalctool/tree/help/C >> >> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/simple-scan/trunk/files/head%3A/help/C/ >> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gbrainy/tree/help/C >> >> Feel free to ask me any questions, you can also find me on >> #ubuntu-desktop on freenode as robert-ancell. >> >> --Robert >> > > Hey Robert, thanks for chiming in! It looks like Mallard will be the way to > go. I appreciate the links to the guides and information. I'm sure I'll be > stopping by ubuntu-desktop one of these days. > > Since it's been determined Mallard is the way to go I'll try and toy around > with it over the next few days and see where I end up. I'm familiar with > basic html so hopefully this won't be too hard to figure out. > From robert.ancell at canonical.com Mon May 31 06:21:26 2010 From: robert.ancell at canonical.com (Robert Ancell) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 16:21:26 +1000 Subject: [Shotwell] Contributing to Yorba/Shotwell In-Reply-To: References: <1275130247.1589.4.camel@nuuk> <1275197495.8816.11.camel@antiloop> <4550.59.154.63.92.1275198671.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> <1275203110.10738.46.camel@antiloop> <56405.59.154.63.92.1275211839.squirrel@denton.thuree.com> Message-ID: <4C035566.4050000@canonical.com> Hi David, Great to see you've been able to get something working! Sorry, I forgot to link to information about what content to put in, here is a post from the author of Mallard: http://people.gnome.org/~shaunm/quack/mallard.xml The way I think about it is: Imagine you are a new user. You've clicked on an icon called "Shotwell Photo Manager" either because you found it or someone told you to. The Shotwell window has opened up and you don't know how to use it. You've opened the help. What do you want to do? Perhaps you want to: - Import some photos from your digital camera. - Crop a photo you have - Upload your photos to Facebook - Set your photo as the background These are the sections to write. What you don't want to know is: - How to open the application (if you're reading the help it is already open) - What the application looks like - you can see that already --Robert On 31/05/10 15:34, David Velazquez wrote: > Of course this is only a proof of concept, if you will, but I've > managed to get it going and quite nicely. My first impressions are > good. It will definitely take some getting used to considering I only > dabbled in html many years ago. The hardest thing for me to understand > will be the linking structure and the ability to have a second guide, > but I'm hoping that will come naturally as I write more. > > Starting Page > > > Starting Shotwell > > > > > As I get time I hope to experiment with adding pictures > > On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:01 AM, David Velazquez > > wrote: > > This bears remembering I think, a lot of things can change in > Shotwell. Though it was early in the morning for me I remember > reading that Mallard was especially useful in organizing things so > that changes could be made easily. I hope that's what I read. > > > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 5:30 AM, Bengt Thuree > wrote: > > > Just a thought here that Shotwell is still in early days of > development, > so we should bear that in mind when the various documentation > is produced. > That means that there is bound to be a number of changes in a > short > time... > > /Bengt > > Bengt Thuree bengt at thuree.com > > > > Bruno Sun. 2010-5-30 > > It is. I only mentioned it because it exists, has all the support > processes needed for a new contributor and they will > definitely need a > section on Shotwell for 10.10. Of course, it would be a lot > better to do > generic documentation. > > > I will definitely take a further look at contributing to the > Ubuntu Manual project if I can get into things nicely. I've > already perused the manual and handed it off to people to use. > It's a great project! > > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Robert Ancell > > wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm a GNOME Developer and work in the Ubuntu Desktop team. > > The help should definitely be written in Mallard format and I can > confirm it is an order of magnitude easier that the old > DocBook format! > > All you need is a recent version of Yelp (e.g. Ubuntu 9.10 or > higher) > and a text editor. > > The Mallard ten minute guide will teach you all you need: > http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/tenminutes.html > > Here are some examples of Mallard help files: > http://git.gnome.org/browse/gcalctool/tree/help/C > http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/simple-scan/trunk/files/head%3A/help/C/ > > http://git.gnome.org/browse/gbrainy/tree/help/C > > Feel free to ask me any questions, you can also find me on > #ubuntu-desktop on freenode as robert-ancell. > > --Robert > > > Hey Robert, thanks for chiming in! It looks like Mallard will be > the way to go. I appreciate the links to the guides and > information. I'm sure I'll be stopping by ubuntu-desktop one of > these days. > > Since it's been determined Mallard is the way to go I'll try and > toy around with it over the next few days and see where I end up. > I'm familiar with basic html so hopefully this won't be too hard > to figure out. > > > From theirishkiwi at gmail.com Mon May 31 16:03:07 2010 From: theirishkiwi at gmail.com (Chris Lindsay) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 17:03:07 +0100 Subject: [Shotwell] Open with Raw Editor and Importing images... Message-ID: I have been testing out some of the recent enhancements to Shotwell 0.5.90+trunk and have a few thoughts on how certain aspects have been implements. 1. Opening raw file with Raw Editor - When you click on the menu item with a raw file selected, GIMP is used to open the raw file using the UFRaw plugin. My preference here would to have UFRaw opened directly as not everyone will want to open the edited raw file in GIMP and as it stands the only way to save the file is to finally open the file in GIMP and then export it. - A second point here is, if UFRaw is not your raw editing application of choice you do not benefit from being able open your raw editor of choice from within Shotwell. Possible solutions here would be to allow the user to change the settings of button to point to their preferred editor. Or, when you right click on the raw file and navigate to the open raw editor, a sub menu is opened with the various options as used by Nautilus (Open with) this would also have the potential benefit of combining the the "Open External Editor" and "Open Raw Editor" into one menu item. 2. Importing images from Camera/ Memory Card - When I insert my SD card I get an error message "Unable to unmount camera at this time." The Card has been mounted, I just need to navigate to Cameras on left-hand-side to open the memory card and import your images. - Another thought when importing images, the option to hide already imported images could be improved by still showing images already in your library, but overlaying them with an "X" (as in Picasa) or by fading them? this way you can still see the images you already have, but are still clearly differentiated from your new images. - Finally; I'm not sure if this is the case, but once the hide duplicates box is ticked,does this stop these 'hidden' images from being imported? Best Regards Chris -- Chris From lucas at yorba.org Mon May 31 17:45:27 2010 From: lucas at yorba.org (Lucas Beeler) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 10:45:27 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Bug fixes (Was: Shotwell - Thoughts on work-flow and extensions) In-Reply-To: <1275220964.1542.30.camel@nuuk> References: <4BFA9854.2050109@yorba.org> <1274732635.1591.239.camel@nuuk> <4BFC18E4.40906@yorba.org> <1275220964.1542.30.camel@nuuk> Message-ID: Hi Bruno, The GNU gettext suite (see http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/ for more information), provides the standard mechanism for internationalization support on Linux platforms and defines the PO file format. The suite contains about 15 command line tools, a dynamic library for runtime support, and headers and stub libraries for development. At Yorba, we've done a considerable amount of work to make the gettext tool suite work with the Vala language and to develop an internationalization workflow. What's more, we've done all of these things with the aim of the making internationalization as painless and transparent as possible for developers like you. Essentially, the only thing you need to do to as a developer to plug into the Yorba internationalization workflow is to enclose all of your translatable strings in gettext markup, which is simply an underscore and a pair of parentheses. For example, if you'd normally set the caption text of an on-screen widget by making a method call like: widget.set_caption_text("Publish"); you'd simply alter your code to look like: widget.set_caption_text(_("Publish")); marking up the string "Publish" to let gettext know that it's translatable. The gettext suite then handles string extraction and POT template file generation automatically. Thanks for your interest in Shotwell and your intended contribution. Regards, Lucas On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 5:02 AM, Bruno Girin wrote: > On Tue, 2010-05-25 at 11:37 -0700, Adam Dingle wrote: > >> #1954 ? ? ? show exposure bias in Extended Information > > I decided to have a go at solving this one. I now have working code but > I also have a question: how are the .po files updated? Do you have to > add new strings manually or is there a way to generate the list of > translatable strings from the code? > > Bruno > > > _______________________________________________ > Shotwell mailing list > Shotwell at lists.yorba.org > http://lists.yorba.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/shotwell > From brunogirin at gmail.com Mon May 31 18:25:47 2010 From: brunogirin at gmail.com (Bruno Girin) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 19:25:47 +0100 Subject: [Shotwell] Bug fixes (Was: Shotwell - Thoughts on work-flow and extensions) In-Reply-To: References: <4BFA9854.2050109@yorba.org> <1274732635.1591.239.camel@nuuk> <4BFC18E4.40906@yorba.org> <1275220964.1542.30.camel@nuuk> Message-ID: <1275330347.2979.12.camel@nuuk> On Mon, 2010-05-31 at 10:45 -0700, Lucas Beeler wrote: > Hi Bruno, > > The GNU gettext suite (see http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/ for > more information), provides the standard mechanism for > internationalization support on Linux platforms and defines the PO > file format. The suite contains about 15 command line tools, a dynamic > library for runtime support, and headers and stub libraries for > development. At Yorba, we've done a considerable amount of work to > make the gettext tool suite work with the Vala language and to develop > an internationalization workflow. What's more, we've done all of these > things with the aim of the making internationalization as painless and > transparent as possible for developers like you. > > Essentially, the only thing you need to do to as a developer to > plug into the Yorba internationalization workflow is to enclose all of > your translatable strings in gettext markup, which is simply an > underscore and a pair of parentheses. For example, if you'd normally > set the caption text of an on-screen widget by making a method call > like: > > widget.set_caption_text("Publish"); > > you'd simply alter your code to look like: > > widget.set_caption_text(_("Publish")); Yes, I did that, the string I use is properly enclosed in a _( ) call. > > marking up the string "Publish" to let gettext know that it's > translatable. The gettext suite then handles string extraction and POT > template file generation automatically. OK so does it mean I should re-generate the .pot file or will that be done automatically once the patch is merged in? If I need to re-generate it, is there a preferred command to use or a make target? I tried this from the top level directory: xgettext -d shotwell -p ./po src/*.vala but I end up with too many differences between the original and the new file for me to be confident that this is the correct way to do it. Best regards, Bruno From lucas at yorba.org Mon May 31 19:21:14 2010 From: lucas at yorba.org (Lucas Beeler) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 12:21:14 -0700 Subject: [Shotwell] Bug fixes (Was: Shotwell - Thoughts on work-flow and extensions) In-Reply-To: <1275330347.2979.12.camel@nuuk> References: <4BFA9854.2050109@yorba.org> <1274732635.1591.239.camel@nuuk> <4BFC18E4.40906@yorba.org> <1275220964.1542.30.camel@nuuk> <1275330347.2979.12.camel@nuuk> Message-ID: > OK so does it mean I should re-generate the .pot file or will that be > done automatically once the patch is merged in? I'm sorry if I was unclear in my earlier message. At Yorba, we take care of POT file generation as part of our internationalization workflow. Our workflow is different (and somewhat more complicated) than that used in traditional GNOME projects for two reasons. First, we develop in Vala and not C or C++, and the gettext suite and Vala don't always play well together. Second, since we don't use the GNU autotools as our build system, we don't have GNOME intltool available to coordinate the invocation of the gettext command-line tools. As a result, we've had to hand-roll our own internationalization workflow and scripts that support it. So far, it's all working out well. What's more, as I noted in my earlier message, we've designed our workflow to be easy to hook into for outside contributors like you: all that you have to do is enclose your translatable strings in gettext markup. The workflow and build system that we use here on the backend take care of the rest. Regards, Lucas From brunogirin at gmail.com Mon May 31 20:03:13 2010 From: brunogirin at gmail.com (Bruno Girin) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 21:03:13 +0100 Subject: [Shotwell] Bug fixes (Was: Shotwell - Thoughts on work-flow and extensions) In-Reply-To: References: <4BFA9854.2050109@yorba.org> <1274732635.1591.239.camel@nuuk> <4BFC18E4.40906@yorba.org> <1275220964.1542.30.camel@nuuk> <1275330347.2979.12.camel@nuuk> Message-ID: <1275336193.2979.60.camel@nuuk> On Mon, 2010-05-31 at 12:21 -0700, Lucas Beeler wrote: > > OK so does it mean I should re-generate the .pot file or will that be > > done automatically once the patch is merged in? > > I'm sorry if I was unclear in my earlier message. At Yorba, we take > care of POT file generation as part of our internationalization > workflow. Our workflow is different (and somewhat more complicated) > than that used in traditional GNOME projects for two reasons. First, > we develop in Vala and not C or C++, and the gettext suite and Vala > don't always play well together. Second, since we don't use the GNU > autotools as our build system, we don't have GNOME intltool available > to coordinate the invocation of the gettext command-line tools. As a > result, we've had to hand-roll our own internationalization workflow > and scripts that support it. So far, it's all working out well. What's > more, as I noted in my earlier message, we've designed our workflow to > be easy to hook into for outside contributors like you: all that you > have to do is enclose your translatable strings in gettext markup. The > workflow and build system that we use here on the backend take care of > the rest. Thanks for the explanation Lucas, it makes a lot of sense. And it's great that it makes contributing to Shotwell (and other Yorba projects) easier. I'll upload a patch for bug 1954 to trac in the next 5 minutes. This raises a new question though. If I wanted to contribute translations (my first language is French), what is the workflow for that? Regards, Bruno