On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Guetcho= Guetchev <getcho.getchev@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello guys,
I am trying to build Glib for iOS. I have set up everything - the cross com= piler, the toolchain, etc. The build process takes place on Mac OS 10.7.4 I am able to build Glib from the release tarball. However when I clone the = git repository I do not see the configure script. Even at the tags 2.33.4 a= nd 2.33.6.
Instead of that I have the autogen.sh.
However running autogen.sh fails with this message:
*** No GTK-Doc found, please install it ***
Even if I disable the check in the autogen.sh the automake fails later with= similar error (no gtk-doc).

So the question is: how am I suppose to build Glib on unix-compilant system= (iOS is such thing) without installing gtk-doc and Gnome?
=

it can be very hard. there are two approaches. one is to build a p= seudo/fake gtk-doc package for OS X, which does actually exist, but i can&#= 39;t tell you where to find it. google will help. the other is to install A= LL the dependencies that gtk-doc requires, which is substantial:

xz
tar
m4
make
zlib
autoconf
automake
libto= ol
make
flex
bison
expat
libxml2
libxslt
readli= ne
libiconv
intltool
gettext
tiff
libpng
jpeg
XML-Parser
XML-Simple
libffi
glib
pkg-config
atk
gn= ome
gtk-osx-docbook
gnome-doc-utils
gtk-doc

<= /div> --f46d040167f5101b4804c50e521d-- From hfiguiere@teaser.fr Tue Jul 17 22:58:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6CE6750452 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:58:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.823 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.823 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, TW_GT=0.077] autolearn=ham Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vsEr0cnUhxqO for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:58:30 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 529 seconds by postgrey-1.34 at menubar.gnome.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:58:30 UTC Received: from smtp.mozilla.org (mx2.corp.phx1.mozilla.com [63.245.216.70]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 360867503BC for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:58:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.244.29.55] (unknown [64.213.70.194]) (Authenticated sender: hfiguiere@mozilla.com) by mx2.mail.corp.phx1.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8A94DF2587 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5005EBFA.7050708@teaser.fr> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:49:30 -0700 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hubert_Figui=E8re?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120615 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Glib for iOS References: <46C53777-9868-45D1-BFFC-11F48BDAC40B@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:58:32 -0000 On 17/07/12 03:46 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > it can be very hard. there are two approaches. one is to build a > pseudo/fake gtk-doc package for OS X, which does actually exist, but i > can't tell you where to find it. google will help. the other is to install > ALL the dependencies that gtk-doc requires, which is substantial: And do we know the rationale for forcing gtk-doc ? I mean glib is supposed to be lightweight library, but this is like everything including the kitchen sink. This alone as always discouraged me to use glib for portable code. Hub From llandwerlin@gmail.com Tue Jul 17 23:19:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 713CA7504B8 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:19:07 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.623 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.623 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077] autolearn=ham Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yblbCF74Gd1c for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:18:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wg0-f46.google.com (mail-wg0-f46.google.com [74.125.82.46]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9842750452 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:18:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbdq10 with SMTP id dq10so578054wgb.27 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:18:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:subject:from:to:date:in-reply-to:references:content-type :x-mailer:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DzwevvM5qVgo9Apws86qUNHdiorK3WNNVp4+jlfYCCA=; b=o9rWLzTUySYqZRFjB7Dc/OTFb6H26KKZldufUEuPciDxMU26ykBH53eLUFcmYXC4Fi Rqlsg0JOmaA0n0o4Z01+hB+tBFj3amEBYqnEIM035s5K1M3h5OfpSfU1W+fLo1PlaDMV zN0/UCb7ekcel82Hu4zzAADEsgdW9FMD7BdjYIdnx9/b1QjKEN28VI7gl7iIcx4MCGqC 01rpkAChkkOGjyY5Jwz3azB25y5Nrt5zPb3PTUVMaulSoPEHs7CVO/ESG/ArW/KpoKPk wL8YgjtIOEsbxhTbWCb4h3mtFemlgXaVfqVMfHNVZKo/M/mWSsLhIu+vu7vckI1d8+x0 +qhg== Received: by 10.216.240.10 with SMTP id d10mr451959wer.157.1342567122385; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.6] (b0fb9080.bb.sky.com. [176.251.144.128]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ck9sm15663302wib.2.2012.07.17.16.18.40 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1342567119.12142.10.camel@worky> Subject: Re: Glib for iOS From: Lionel Landwerlin To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:18:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <5005EBFA.7050708@teaser.fr> References: <46C53777-9868-45D1-BFFC-11F48BDAC40B@gmail.com> <5005EBFA.7050708@teaser.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.4.3-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:19:07 -0000 On Tue, 2012-07-17 at 15:49 -0700, Hubert Figuière wrote: > On 17/07/12 03:46 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > > it can be very hard. there are two approaches. one is to build a > > pseudo/fake gtk-doc package for OS X, which does actually exist, but i > > can't tell you where to find it. google will help. the other is to install > > ALL the dependencies that gtk-doc requires, which is substantial: > > And do we know the rationale for forcing gtk-doc ? I mean glib is > supposed to be lightweight library, but this is like everything > including the kitchen sink. This alone as always discouraged me to use > glib for portable code. > > Hub > Usually people cross compiling glib with minimal deps/burden just copy the gtk-doc.m4 from the gtk-doc package and run configure with --disable-gtk-doc. Buildroot for example does that : http://git.buildroot.org/buildroot/tree/package/automake Regards, -- Lionel Landwerlin From paul@linuxaudiosystems.com Tue Jul 17 23:23:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2681D7504F4 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:23:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.522 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, TW_GT=0.077] autolearn=ham Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uVhyFWNhUixj for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:23:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E5377504C2 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:22:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so2370579lbo.27 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:22:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=7c9O8XVYxhVldhGm2E8zR3nfQ/Krr8LtPePPhBnez4w=; b=PMk0YxiN674k3orpJdXd/q2cyAsTd+r1RVz6O4B72bmAr937zoopdo+/n13knhRdW0 CBeFpX1ObfyLMhu78yy+NJyBr0CSlJqA6jCWpXoMA4bszaWVUfJMyrvaENm7cK2NyuDy EocnUPLsC+Rpa8LCN80R6NeXIXWRacn7HqojD6dzdbaY6cslD+3Tt47mwVSrBVIAnn0a kJHuE4DfG9YbQB5VDtWKw6Q1AiX0zL4w8nvAMDsGWpCvUgqJ4X3nh9V2oSmsoMNao486 xzJXB2MXA+0vX4syz0sHrMJURHhXAwAx6PC0Gc9oW6Kmi1GVb2K+NvwVHPLMzO+bV+bd cjsw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.104.77 with SMTP id gc13mr891384lab.31.1342567377746; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.0.229 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:22:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5005EBFA.7050708@teaser.fr> References: <46C53777-9868-45D1-BFFC-11F48BDAC40B@gmail.com> <5005EBFA.7050708@teaser.fr> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:22:57 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Glib for iOS From: Paul Davis To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hubert_Figui=E8re?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04083adba33a6504c50ed397 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQml+wicfyyO/+Q1w1QsbHsoH3EAxfujjM8uhf9fxW3j+v0M2h5DsVh3RRcADElntRVD9djC Cc: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:23:10 -0000 --f46d04083adba33a6504c50ed397 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Hubert Figui=E8re wro= te: > On 17/07/12 03:46 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > > it can be very hard. there are two approaches. one is to build a > > pseudo/fake gtk-doc package for OS X, which does actually exist, but i > > can't tell you where to find it. google will help. the other is to > install > > ALL the dependencies that gtk-doc requires, which is substantial: > > And do we know the rationale for forcing gtk-doc ? I mean glib is > supposed to be lightweight library, but this is like everything > including the kitchen sink. This alone as always discouraged me to use > glib for portable code. > i should note that the list above is the order i actually build things in on OS X. you will note that glib gets built without gtk-doc, with no special magic. a lot of that stack is there for gtk, not glib, and i think i'm probably wrong to say that its needed for gtk-doc. --f46d04083adba33a6504c50ed397 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Hubert = Figui=E8re <hfiguiere@teaser.fr> wrote:

On 17/07/12 03:46 PM, Paul Davis wrote:
> it can be very hard. there are two approaches. one is to build a
> pseudo/fake gtk-doc package for OS X, which does actually exist, but i=
> can't tell you where to find it. google will help. the other is to= install
> ALL the dependencies that gtk-doc requires, which is substantial:

And do we know the rationale for forcing gtk-doc ? I mean glib is
supposed to be lightweight library, but this is like everything
including the kitchen sink. This alone as always discouraged me to use
glib for portable code.

i should note that the lis= t above is the order i actually build things in on OS X. you will note that= glib gets built without gtk-doc, with no special magic.

a lot of th= at stack is there for gtk, not glib, and i think i'm probably wrong to = say that its needed for gtk-doc.

--f46d04083adba33a6504c50ed397-- From getcho.getchev@gmail.com Tue Jul 17 23:41:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2547075050B for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:41:25 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.623 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.623 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077] autolearn=ham Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nD-6ivS1BMEs for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:41:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CB00750440 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:41:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by weyx56 with SMTP id x56so937877wey.27 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:40:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=Oal10tkKxtdhA2xTxJof4JJqHyXVeJAD2uBuBFC5rrM=; b=TK/CzfDUX8hNTlVeWLB0QUx1KXZMCZZeBlu2+3hLzO4lcLKIQPvobVJFMUNRSKIKQH KUcnN1tNq0KqW1cvo55RkYcxQdegyV6ypmhFSq3Rd+DEQ+EDzsNda8k61kGM7Czb1E5R g6C+ZmRJsg+TvuuNzgTfTAkMohuQGLoEs04p75k1oK94arangW7GV8DX8vnBNO0Kq9BF soJ50GE4JmR7aIBTI9kmSy5lcYGl/TmbdshMPFsfloBhbd9q62WLxIk6jlXTlMCZLkJL JQywAuXWnYoQw6AwbdpMvK+vZeWb+LCJnaOHLlZyCzPlyuLq0MybQQ/x9d9qgh/CnPHs BurQ== Received: by 10.216.220.89 with SMTP id n67mr489531wep.73.1342568459136; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:40:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.118] (93-152-137-24.ddns.onlinedirect.bg. [93.152.137.24]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ep14sm30352383wid.0.2012.07.17.16.40.57 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Subject: Re: Glib for iOS From: Guetcho Guetchev In-Reply-To: <1342567119.12142.10.camel@worky> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 02:40:53 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0A204C29-01AC-4DA0-8AB1-8D3C847A4468@gmail.com> References: <46C53777-9868-45D1-BFFC-11F48BDAC40B@gmail.com> <5005EBFA.7050708@teaser.fr> <1342567119.12142.10.camel@worky> To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:41:25 -0000 Good point! However =85 how to get to the configure script? :)=20 This is not a release tarball I am using but a git clone.There is no = configure script. GG On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:18 AM, Lionel Landwerlin wrote: > On Tue, 2012-07-17 at 15:49 -0700, Hubert Figui=E8re wrote: >> On 17/07/12 03:46 PM, Paul Davis wrote: >>> it can be very hard. there are two approaches. one is to build a >>> pseudo/fake gtk-doc package for OS X, which does actually exist, but = i >>> can't tell you where to find it. google will help. the other is to = install >>> ALL the dependencies that gtk-doc requires, which is substantial: >>=20 >> And do we know the rationale for forcing gtk-doc ? I mean glib is >> supposed to be lightweight library, but this is like everything >> including the kitchen sink. This alone as always discouraged me to = use >> glib for portable code. >>=20 >> Hub >>=20 >=20 > Usually people cross compiling glib with minimal deps/burden just copy > the gtk-doc.m4 from the gtk-doc package and run configure with > --disable-gtk-doc. >=20 > Buildroot for example does that : >=20 > http://git.buildroot.org/buildroot/tree/package/automake >=20 > Regards, >=20 > -- > Lionel Landwerlin >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > gtk-devel-list mailing list > gtk-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list From dregister@clear.net Tue Jul 17 23:49:23 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59C697504B8 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:49:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.523 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, TW_XD=0.077] autolearn=ham Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id slQ3TxknnYWz for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:49:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-gg0-f182.google.com (mail-gg0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05FA2750452 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:49:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnm2 with SMTP id m2so1497134ggn.27 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:49:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=3fsOFtOVXDaj2sRP98gwfv3rvM6c23oDfUQSty2XInw=; b=pkCxqXwD2An/b5tlH80apTo7hnL8kmJY41bZ2JPz4gmKfhH6fup4arpRjGvNLaNduw q60TWY2VBPhuGtOlvCn2/lKjyJzkyaY8XvbwCv6DdW2nDBXD12EIfLXWynVIba2bH83i ze0DLIG4SmrLamIgaviMlqJ8tKsalnyDRKtckU93GXBNPr0G6JDmSfQyreOelCPVF+PZ 40ayeJo9djX103ZZAhDyvkCf9JjpR2KE1fH2tClQU5DuUgGojuzPscj9KMoAa/mgfXpb Op9DD9cyf/9Rtlnysm3eqX/Ohfnsqrwe/BdzC4zN7yn0/u9hjm5idKs4AJy/W2HX2TXF fHww== Received: by 10.236.185.165 with SMTP id u25mr3586553yhm.67.1342568940448; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.15.30] (75-95-141-51.gar.clearwire-wmx.net. [75.95.141.51]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a79sm37183881yhk.16.2012.07.17.16.48.59 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:48:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5005F9E6.9050308@clear.net> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:48:54 -0400 From: Damon Register User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: building Glib-2.32.4 with mingw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlNWiBG92gBVdMafgF7I2NK7O+E8qFUeE78+2F+oUtmbmDZPZYV34uxbc3dACGjs7uvDUZR X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:49:23 -0000 Now that I was able to build all the components up to and including gtk3, I tried starting over so I could clean up my notes to be sure that I got the notes right. I noticed that glib-2.32.4 had been released since I started this with glib-2.32.2. I thought I would try it but found that make fails with an error about an XDG item not being defined (I don't have the notes handy at the moment). From what I could find with Google, it appears that I now need a www.freedesktop.org item called xdg-utils. Am I correct about that? I tried to get it but http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software seems to be really messed up. Most of the links are broken. So, I have two questions: 1. do I need xdg-utils or portland to build glib-2.32.4? 2. if I do need item 1, does anyone know where else besides freedesktop can I find it? Damon Register From llandwerlin@gmail.com Wed Jul 18 00:01:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B262B75052C for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:01:03 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.623 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.623 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077] autolearn=ham Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id czEq3peyk9kp for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:01:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4337E750511 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:00:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by weyx56 with SMTP id x56so948530wey.27 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:00:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:subject:from:to:date:in-reply-to:references:content-type :x-mailer:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DUJmnMgDKpXM+nd7CdsbInqhbWBxwRtFMczVIgi0MiY=; b=GAOAP/PsgVz5tlxDKcwaXVsSERn9KlHCa9XTnaOCgtdQ5FQyNEYY0ZCUZhLSwShA0h cYiGwZ0bc7ZB5K+Uj1+01AbhGBtQaBhBk/fV0Ghfndbafzi8jWhv5Hdj6GwO9VY+HqrX loh5KRuMi/eOW21FFGw69dAJdQ7AnDw0OBf68/8Ohk1vqVg4BU4nqgqH6g72444WGAXw h6++zgd1LVlCJCDpGg3Fv15TVsiWqYKl3WFd/eR8rJSuPGivTaEIATRRxixseCsRElhc cU+VsuLEx405VQjGmqAhC1jyadRW4k3+DOrTpIRvwEeHodqqNjtonE8OvLlzg2Ert4a+ X5Tw== Received: by 10.180.109.166 with SMTP id ht6mr1817601wib.11.1342569651154; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.6] (b0fb9080.bb.sky.com. [176.251.144.128]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l5sm43793102wix.5.2012.07.17.17.00.49 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1342569648.12142.13.camel@worky> Subject: Re: Glib for iOS From: Lionel Landwerlin To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 01:00:48 +0100 In-Reply-To: <0A204C29-01AC-4DA0-8AB1-8D3C847A4468@gmail.com> References: <46C53777-9868-45D1-BFFC-11F48BDAC40B@gmail.com> <5005EBFA.7050708@teaser.fr> <1342567119.12142.10.camel@worky> <0A204C29-01AC-4DA0-8AB1-8D3C847A4468@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.4.3-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:01:03 -0000 Hmm... 1. Copy gtk-doc.m4 from gtk-doc to wherever you've installed automake 2. run autoreconf/autogen.sh in glib directory 3. run ./configure in glib directory with --disable-gtk-doc -- Lionel Landwerlin On Wed, 2012-07-18 at 02:40 +0300, Guetcho Guetchev wrote: > Good point! > However … how to get to the configure script? :) > This is not a release tarball I am using but a git clone.There is no configure script. > GG > > On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:18 AM, Lionel Landwerlin wrote: > > > On Tue, 2012-07-17 at 15:49 -0700, Hubert Figuière wrote: > >> On 17/07/12 03:46 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > >>> it can be very hard. there are two approaches. one is to build a > >>> pseudo/fake gtk-doc package for OS X, which does actually exist, but i > >>> can't tell you where to find it. google will help. the other is to install > >>> ALL the dependencies that gtk-doc requires, which is substantial: > >> > >> And do we know the rationale for forcing gtk-doc ? I mean glib is > >> supposed to be lightweight library, but this is like everything > >> including the kitchen sink. This alone as always discouraged me to use > >> glib for portable code. > >> > >> Hub > >> > > > > Usually people cross compiling glib with minimal deps/burden just copy > > the gtk-doc.m4 from the gtk-doc package and run configure with > > --disable-gtk-doc. > > > > Buildroot for example does that : > > > > http://git.buildroot.org/buildroot/tree/package/automake > > > > Regards, > > > > -- > > Lionel Landwerlin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > gtk-devel-list mailing list > > gtk-devel-list@gnome.org > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list > > _______________________________________________ > gtk-devel-list mailing list > gtk-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list From walters@verbum.org Wed Jul 18 00:19:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 081007504F4 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:19:11 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.523 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, TW_GT=0.077] autolearn=ham Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q81A9cKXVAew for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:19:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE69750511 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:19:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.45]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A8121204; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:18:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1.nyi.mail.srv.osa ([10.202.2.160]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:18:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:subject:from:to:cc:date :in-reply-to:references:content-type:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; s=smtpout; bh=JVI7Zw6DMyLBd1EIhr4qRh MbIFQ=; b=sNR1v5zvJq1dk6AhrQGeRII7Gq8LdvFF0am5SNi1Gs5eiNGXE0GkrM R0AGEjHE/NZqB9O+1IW7Ulq3Zp2/U8tVBdo0auFiHulwqZ58f1Mw/A8jWc17MWX/ ZnII6QABNXMjooVQSYGMD22KGkrpFHsgr8U4gwDJmh6pYuo6SBeYA= X-Sasl-enc: 0rqFg+Kpy9M9w5y1IVH486JnT+tybCt1a3TZBsF2h1Jj 1342570738 Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [50.138.225.153]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C7DFC8E0205; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1342570702.2860.6.camel@lenny> Subject: Re: Glib for iOS From: Colin Walters To: Guetcho Guetchev Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:18:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: <46C53777-9868-45D1-BFFC-11F48BDAC40B@gmail.com> References: <46C53777-9868-45D1-BFFC-11F48BDAC40B@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.4.3 (3.4.3-1.fc17) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:19:11 -0000 On Wed, 2012-07-18 at 01:34 +0300, Guetcho Guetchev wrote: > So the question is: how am I suppose to build Glib on unix-compilant system (iOS is such thing) without installing gtk-doc and Gnome? This just came up in the other thread, but: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=674314 From phomes@gmail.com Wed Jul 18 06:47:26 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C918E7505E0 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 06:47:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.623 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.623 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_BF=0.077] autolearn=ham Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1TPH2dnI78Nt for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 06:47:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C762C75039C for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 06:47:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so3081934lbo.27 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:46:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=JKssexNvNCm+trJ0D85439KA0ZCaxDQo6SwwegPiTsc=; b=I3myxRKLVi4GPv5pTok82nOmcfHpiwAHAFi/nn5OgiJG+OvNbtOMkZIAXaip+AUYyf Jk1NIf8W2FT7qOiZoinljhwIQWrozagmcoGFsRakCaBUFeK8V/Fv6AJS85AzvPh32VJ6 /YWMuaUtvnDhlR5/mJGC/AolOlGqYfLjDA8Ah2F5XYORXZqOieSGBxp/dGhYSwSMqh2V hxnAzxeGyumNy5fOptIofaR/RDYT3/XG0xT7DoTGlMnJQrkmU5eoRLjqzxsNEHF5D8CC wMl+8Gf4wK2oVJYsEJS12/rZj4TQQhc/Il82BE0Zq85/G5EjOeWfM/cmXk2nYM7I5m7G ig8g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.41.2 with SMTP id b2mr1162217lbl.58.1342594019355; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.24.1 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:46:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5005C555.4010302@optionexplicit.be> References: <1342164020.2664.0.camel@murrayc-desktop> <50043987.5010401@lmco.com> <1342523648.2560.4.camel@murrayc-desktop> <7236dab002981970019deaeba1ffe34e@mail.webfaction.com> <5005C555.4010302@optionexplicit.be> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:46:59 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: win32 installer? From: "Thomas H.P. Andersen" To: Dieter Verfaillie Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org, Murray Cumming X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 06:47:27 -0000 On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Dieter Verfaillie wrote: > On 17/07/2012 16:43, Thomas H.P. Andersen wrote: >> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Dieter Verfaillie >> wrote: >>> Yup, that's the bundle (a first step towards a proper sdk), which >>> I'm uploading to http://optionexplicit.be/projects/gnome-windows/GTK+3/ >>> from time to time... For now at least, once stable it'll go to >>> ftp.gnome.org :) >> >> Would it be possible to have libffi added to the bundle as well? > > Oops! IIRC, that was fixed the day after releasing that version and it > seems I forgot to upload it. Which is now done. I see ffi.h and ffitarget.h in lib\libffi-3.0.10\include\ but e.g. glib expects those in include\ instead. Also lib\ has libffi.dll.a instead of the needed libffi.lib From dieterv@optionexplicit.be Wed Jul 18 07:11:26 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A22F7750225 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 07:11:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.746 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.746 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, TW_GT=0.077, TW_KG=0.077] autolearn=no Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hcb1hd156r17 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 07:11:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.webfaction.com (mail6.webfaction.com [74.55.86.74]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E03FE750242 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 07:11:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from webmail.webfaction.com (wf2.webfaction.com [174.133.50.206]) by smtp.webfaction.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33BAC2120545; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 02:11:00 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 09:11:00 +0200 From: Dieter Verfaillie To: "Thomas H.P. Andersen" Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: win32 =?UTF-8?Q?installer=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <1342164020.2664.0.camel@murrayc-desktop> <50043987.5010401@lmco.com> <1342523648.2560.4.camel@murrayc-desktop> <7236dab002981970019deaeba1ffe34e@mail.webfaction.com> <5005C555.4010302@optionexplicit.be> Message-ID: <8aca75934b7c503d3f7463053926a5c5@mail.webfaction.com> X-Sender: dieterv@optionexplicit.be User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.5.4 Cc: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org, Murray Cumming X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 07:11:26 -0000 On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:46:59 +0200, Thomas H.P. Andersen wrote: > I see ffi.h and ffitarget.h in lib\libffi-3.0.10\include\ but e.g. > glib expects those in include\ instead. lib/pkgconfig/libffi.pc claims "includedir=${libdir}/libffi-3.0.11/include" and afaik when building glib pkgconfig is used to find libffi. > Also lib\ has libffi.dll.a instead of the needed libffi.lib Would you happen to be using msvc? If yes, then sorry but I'm not generating msvc compatible import libraries for the experimental bundle (as is done for the stable gtk 2.24 bundle on ftp.gnome.org). Honestly I'm not even sure why we should even continue bothering with those now that there's https://live.gnome.org/GTK%2B/Win32/MSVCCompilationOfGTKStack ? mvg, Dieter From fanc999@yahoo.com.tw Thu Jul 19 05:29:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FF46750021 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 05:29:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RjpY6Tg2yiKC for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 05:29:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nm19-vm2.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com (nm19-vm2.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com [106.10.149.113]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C9F0F750078 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 05:29:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [106.10.166.119] by nm19.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2012 05:29:05 -0000 Received: from [106.10.167.220] by tm8.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2012 05:29:05 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp193.mail.sg3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2012 05:29:05 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com.tw; s=s1024; t=1342675745; bh=go8C5HRl6VDX5/u7a+crw/uzGEK0K0m2PKmBm+aOxFI=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:Content-Type; b=nUF5jxnWU5jBs9LkD8XEG0LcJtHgDyR0clY6YrFo1q1V3DVTuIiDyInYhEcqtjnA/j7kM01ralEvyutFDQXbGVAk9iqWbcH5rNJWJdjGg7pXBrp+9mLc+n004Qo58qGjQrtUG8g+T8Z4AYlQwlkNvUGpaTbBolAMYFtRTknyr4g= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 286377.36955.bm@smtp193.mail.sg3.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: jHAZRwgVM1njwvrwEdlYY3Sk4Iw0w8uKLlRKPx89nJ.52A9 aBmojBWzPgT4cfDnAvulhRZliBGEjn0iszLtV8F1duwUFvJQjs_hErsQCJV7 W4rIvaZLE2gUCsnnw07Xnc1ns7WCWCXV.xNmrLqgXvL8tFrdgTKrraebfUj7 XoqqFG_XAKzcmrKEY4OOAk2lmWKDmIWALoevmd283xWm_SxGYzLLGGa7Ew7Q JW2XEfNe574R6Jo_62FuKXu3R.vzTNvRB5guv6KIjR0vxYrNk8_iKBnro_CG 8X.WSU5ykNgP80f1D79Nvj0YxvrZayUJp3rMT5BRQLA8YDUGkQnUHIhBqzh6 MewSGj4X2nT.to.JGYB5Zh_dWCLdP3k35KjYAg728.owL67TbfdEGTl83yAc Ev1Yua41gcFKo.JeOdnLvpzHzg9H3gDYioDkv4bCB3IAugFxbqxZ5ueNqoXh _bG8vucomvtkN3OsaVdOC_TmAyPkD1m0Kv7rIC5P9rE_.Y6998o_.3ljR0We HZJfj.bo_2gKyCoTD4ytMpPHB0O7Vl0G3AB63XAObQd0SAY85BrE- X-Yahoo-SMTP: 5ebm8KSswBAoOmSaF66eITQ8Wug- Received: from [192.168.1.4] (fanc999@175.182.138.9 with plain) by smtp193.mail.sg3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2012 22:29:04 -0700 PDT Message-ID: <50079B16.1080608@yahoo.com.tw> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:28:54 +0800 From: Fan Chun-wei User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120621 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org, windows-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Some questions regarding GObject-Introspection Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070404040506000908030506" X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 05:29:18 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070404040506000908030506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I was trying to build G-I on Windows using MSVC, and managed to get the GLib-2.0.gir file to be built by g-ir-scanner (used the gcc preprocessor as MSVC does not accept input from stdin[1], then run the MSVC compiler on the resulting temporary GLib.c), using the command like what is found in the attached glib_gir.txt. (please use an editor that has line wrap enabled, sorry about the one-line command, but this is what was needed!). The built GLib-2.0.gir can be found at https://dl.dropbox.com/u/30316581/GLib-2.0.gir, as it is a bit too large to be included here. I then built the GLib-2.0.typelib by using this command: g-ir-compiler -o GLib-2.0.typelib GLib-2.0.gir, where the typelib does get built After figuring out where I should place the .typelib/.gir files, I proceeded to to run the glib-print example, but I get: ** domain:ERROR:glib-print.c:1057148:main: hello world This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. Please contact the application's support team for more information. What I would like to know: 1. Does my GLib-2.0.gir seem ok? 2. Did I miss any stepts or make any mistakes generating the GLib-2.0.typelib file. 3. Any other thing that I might have missed? With blessings, and thanks for your time! [1]: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=620566#c35 --------------070404040506000908030506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Big5; name="glib_gir.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="glib_gir.txt" cHl0aG9uIHRvb2xzL2ctaXItc2Nhbm5lciAtLXZlcmJvc2UgLUkuLi8gLS1hZGQtaW5jbHVk ZS1wYXRoPS4uLyAtLWFkZC1pbmNsdWRlLXBhdGg9Li4vZ2lyIC0tYWRkLWluY2x1ZGUtcGF0 aD0uIC0tbmFtZXNwYWNlPUdMaWIgLS1uc3ZlcnNpb249Mi4wIC0tbm8tbGlidG9vbCAtLXBr Zz1nbGliLTIuMCAtLWxpYnJhcnk9Z2xpYi0yLjAgLS1saWJyYXJ5PWdvYmplY3QtMi4wIC0t ZXh0ZXJuYWwtbGlicmFyeSAtLXJlcGFyc2UtdmFsaWRhdGUgLS1pZGVudGlmaWVyLXByZWZp eD1HIC0tc3ltYm9sLXByZWZpeD1nIC0tc3ltYm9sLXByZWZpeD1nbGliIC0tYy1pbmNsdWRl PSJnbGliLmgiIC1JJUdOT01FQkFTRSUvaW5jbHVkZS9nbGliLTIuMCAtSSVHTk9NRUJBU0Ul L2xpYi9nbGliLTIuMC9pbmNsdWRlIC1JJUdOT01FQkFTRSUvaW5jbHVkZSAtREdFVFRFWFRf UEFDS0FHRT1EdW1teSAtREdMSUJfQ09NUElMQVRJT04gLURfX0dfSTE4Tl9MSUJfSF9fICVH Tk9NRUJBU0UlL2xpYi9nbGliLTIuMC9pbmNsdWRlL2dsaWJjb25maWcuaCAlR05PTUVCQVNF 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messagingengine.com; h=message-id:subject:from:to:cc:date :in-reply-to:references:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version; s=smtpout; bh=Pf0Vcu5HDOOktxhqIBttDx2D/KY=; b=F5U ofUj8vhSCgqDN/wxVMoCMNTChsif8HlyVn5fF9lh+corEJADEaU2NJ4otYQRflP6 AGgthNK0tfZQqydRbKX9VeWdmze45IVJPUEBGGlCR4CVVc4u5WhnAWSx65UWXmc+ /fCMJRX52OoD8s4KT2T05O8RQ26UOhDSklRVtHY4= X-Sasl-enc: K2UE41y1vdm2YbEwl8HzRXH7qIf3vFZFoO6xT2R4+Ex3 1342684985 Received: from [192.168.178.24] (unknown [188.174.52.58]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 491F04825DF; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 04:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1342684984.18465.9.camel@murrayc-desktop> Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: win32 installer? From: Murray Cumming To: Dieter Verfaillie Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:03:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: <5005C7AC.2010701@optionexplicit.be> References: <1342164020.2664.0.camel@murrayc-desktop> <50043987.5010401@lmco.com> <5005492E.2070809@lmco.com> <5005C7AC.2010701@optionexplicit.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.2.3-0ubuntu6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 08:03:18 -0000 [snip] On Tue, 2012-07-17 at 22:14 +0200, Dieter Verfaillie wrote: > That leaves just a folder, which is exactly what the bundle is > and always has been (for example: > http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/binaries/win32/gtk+/2.24/) > > An SDK, in my mind, adds all the tools, sources, patches, scripts, > etc used to build that bundle (or to be correct, the packages making > up the bundle) and a way for application writers to integrate with > that system (so they don't have to reinvent the wheel). Versions of > tools would be set in stone for a given branch (let's say gcc 4.6 for > whatever packages are considered part of GNOME 3.4 and it's > maintenance > releases, 4.7 for GNOME 3.6 etc). Not limited to gcc off course, but > *everything*. Application writer integrating with this system would > be able to generate their own "bundle" (think glade, gedit, whatever) > which can then be used to build real installers (using WiX, > NSIS, InnoSetup, whatever). > > Doing all this is the only way we can guarantee end users (of the > SDK) in the distant future will be able to patch say a 3 year old > GTK+ branch when nobody is left around to maintain it, provided said > user can get at a sufficiently old windows version (let's not pretend > current mingw build envs will just work on future windows versions, > see what happened when vista got released for example)... I suggest that this is an idea for later, after we have what we had for GTK+ 2. Thanks for your efforts. -- Murray Cumming murrayc@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com From kris@loopnest.org Thu Jul 19 12:54:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40765750318 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:54:15 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cr8vk0B6GtpJ for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:54:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wg0-f46.google.com (mail-wg0-f46.google.com [74.125.82.46]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 199947502F8 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:54:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbdq10 with SMTP id dq10so1684444wgb.27 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 05:54:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:message-id :to:mime-version:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state; bh=7vHuzjGweOY/S7lZrJ+SQ2OF8CHQskfNg8yMgE75VDo=; b=F2RvUDxA7yS17imErksIGvC8ck/8e94dcCJHCGJdiIzoSJZm8vJXOTDWi/4ZKJ5HCe FcM6SD4OZ1G1s/f9vh70DgKRGto+qsJXsQt4tuTgpZ6MnGmF8KBD3wCVMHIcCvu4dpf0 OF6LXfR//j8KQtCBbkdmFYslNTu+e1rIX3+tXr9Nm6WoQQhPJu/JqJCn4noLT1vPqvDM WEVy1qv4OMeQUBvZy0jtFm/VUoIi3Oc0cltdQzGbzwhciE4a7AuadJuPeloYehV2g09c Va4dsaziQRvl1ebH6h2Pa/gD/YBp3sT2KTaGRlnzVtD/c9gJPC9g2zSEU9Lov6dtk8NU A84Q== Received: by 10.180.104.200 with SMTP id gg8mr4534023wib.14.1342702442659; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 05:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from prive179.liacs.nl (prive179.liacs.nl. [132.229.16.179]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c7sm3771985eem.9.2012.07.19.05.54.01 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 19 Jul 2012 05:54:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Kristian Rietveld Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Fully winding down my involvement in GTK+ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:54:00 +0200 Message-Id: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> To: gtk-devel-list Developers Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkSdSJsQ8ZNVbKeCYWgPYBkHbz47zT5yLeC5Atj/Swh+0kd4ieW09w6Wl/1FnGdUGlyaBry X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:54:15 -0000 Hi all, I have tried to maintain GtkTreeView ever since I took over from = Jonathan Blandford many years ago and in the more recent years the OS X = backend which I took over from Richard Hult. During the last 1,5 years, = I have been struggling to keep up with the development pace of GTK+. As = many have likely noticed, I barely had time to do patch review let alone = do any code writing myself. More than a 100% attention is currently = going to my day job. Also, I struggle to identify with the community these days -- that is, I = do not agree how GTK+ is being developed. Discussions appear to mainly = happen on IRC, which I can impossibly follow, contrary to on the mailing = list; I have seen things being refactored without seriously considering = the impact on compatibility or other platforms; and after working an = entire Summer on the sort and filter model, a patch was committed there = without even quickly checking for review. So, in Open Source, either you step up and do something about it, or you = back out. I have no spare cycles to step up, so I made the choice to = back out. I will discontinue maintenance and patch review and move to = other things. There are a few small OS X issues I still plan to fix, but = that will be all. I will not completely disappear and might still do an occasional = contribution. I hope to find time for other things, also related to GTK+ = and GNOME, like my GObject Clang plugin which I want to clean up and = upload somewhere. Or some GIMP hacking. Also, I will be around in the = fine LibreOffice community. Best regards, -kris. From ebassi@gmail.com Thu Jul 19 13:50:45 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8497502F8 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:50:45 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.623 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.623 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077] autolearn=ham Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3DOXuzrkFiag for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:50:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C68F27500C9 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:50:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhfs35 with SMTP id s35so4053747yhf.27 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 06:50:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=yzRDEbu6KNUPaig5mqr4j/vm850p6WE6ct/BE+Nlrp4=; b=dJ3mv0hKaCay21A1UY6oHfG2nr7njy3LA05cCIjxk2BVd47j5Yf1RYho3pOvOky5eL Ii+hRbb4mQZiPlbWQdWpWpsS7PtxOjRua1IAkv/UzhW5MDSSdogImjvW/TByaimFTKrt jXISBfyHDEAIkQkfJf/6djZweIddrryEkACdTB/5wj6PqLRPwSLTMkJr+ueqATRbxw3A 7KymMF1hroSZ+YzNdoc5Vikn53YSY1wOQDOs0oVf/KM+Y4GkhA1q4/0nPamXvQFAJFYg REo3i72cvgOdPNjqTmcsZEFC/aTK++Rb4zaIK/GN8X882akZ3eFKyEJ8TKtBTpNrD5L5 tfqw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.172.143 with SMTP id bc15mr2698514oec.73.1342705833068; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 06:50:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.141.19 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 06:50:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> References: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 09:50:33 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Fully winding down my involvement in GTK+ From: Emmanuele Bassi To: Kristian Rietveld Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: gtk-devel-list Developers X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:50:45 -0000 hi Kris; first of all, thanks for all the hard work you put into gtk+ over the past 10 years - it's been a lot, and I'm sure it has been very much appreciated by everyone. it's sad that you don't have time any more, but I also appreciate the fact that people have to work - and move on to other projects. kudos, and hopefully we'll see you come back some day. :-) ciao, Emmanuele. On 19 July 2012 08:54, Kristian Rietveld wrote: > Hi all, > > I have tried to maintain GtkTreeView ever since I took over from Jonathan= Blandford many years ago and in the more recent years the OS X backend whi= ch I took over from Richard Hult. During the last 1,5 years, I have been st= ruggling to keep up with the development pace of GTK+. As many have likely = noticed, I barely had time to do patch review let alone do any code writing= myself. More than a 100% attention is currently going to my day job. > > Also, I struggle to identify with the community these days -- that is, I = do not agree how GTK+ is being developed. Discussions appear to mainly happ= en on IRC, which I can impossibly follow, contrary to on the mailing list; = I have seen things being refactored without seriously considering the impac= t on compatibility or other platforms; and after working an entire Summer o= n the sort and filter model, a patch was committed there without even quick= ly checking for review. > > So, in Open Source, either you step up and do something about it, or you = back out. I have no spare cycles to step up, so I made the choice to back o= ut. I will discontinue maintenance and patch review and move to other thing= s. There are a few small OS X issues I still plan to fix, but that will be = all. > > > I will not completely disappear and might still do an occasional contribu= tion. I hope to find time for other things, also related to GTK+ and GNOME,= like my GObject Clang plugin which I want to clean up and upload somewhere= . Or some GIMP hacking. Also, I will be around in the fine LibreOffice comm= unity. > > > Best regards, > > -kris. > > _______________________________________________ > gtk-devel-list mailing list > gtk-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list --=20 W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi/ From torriem@gmail.com Sat Jul 21 04:55:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63FAA750062 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 04:55:07 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.142 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.142 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, TW_GT=0.077] autolearn=no Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xzAv2SXuG7A1 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 04:54:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 1313 seconds by postgrey-1.34 at menubar.gnome.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 04:54:53 UTC Received: from mail.torriefamily.org (shell.torriefamily.org [74.207.242.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C44907500BF for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 04:54:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.torriefamily.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0DD36DEE3 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 22:32:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at torriefamily.org Received: from mail.torriefamily.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.torriefamily.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id CNQTGjN4emR4 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 22:32:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.12.100] (unknown [192.168.12.100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.torriefamily.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1D446D661 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 22:32:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <500A30E9.2080207@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 22:32:41 -0600 From: Michael Torrie User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:10.0.6esrpre) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/10.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Fully winding down my involvement in GTK+ References: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> In-Reply-To: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 04:55:07 -0000 On 07/19/2012 06:54 AM, Kristian Rietveld wrote: > Also, I struggle to identify with the community these days -- that > is, I do not agree how GTK+ is being developed. Discussions appear to > mainly happen on IRC, which I can impossibly follow, contrary to on > the mailing list; Now that you mention this, I have noticed practically no traffic on any of the devel lists in the last few years. I am probably not alone in thinking GTK development had stalled (though GTK 3 is obvious evidence to the contrary!). Does not give a good message to potential GTK users who want to check things out. The non-devel lists do have a fair amount of traffic, but it is now somewhat rare to have core GTK developers participate like they used to in the old days. I agree heartily that the mailing list is a much better place for tracking development. IRC is too instantaneous (time zones preclude participation often), and IRC logs are extremely tedious and difficult to follow as they lack the structure that e-mail has. As a lurker who would like to follow gtk development, if the developers would return to the list I think it would be of great benefit to potential contributors like me (though maybe the potential is too small to even consider). Certainly as long as GTK development discussions primarily take place on IRC I will be unable to follow and even consider contributing in any way, even a tiny way. From johne53@tiscali.co.uk Sat Jul 21 12:43:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19160750126 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:43:44 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.507 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.507 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077, TW_LQ=0.077, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CDLhlbGUoH71 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:43:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 676 seconds by postgrey-1.34 at menubar.gnome.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:43:29 UTC Received: from mk-filter-2-a-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-filter-2-a-1.mail.tiscali.co.uk [212.74.100.53]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481997500EB for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:43:20 +0000 (UTC) X-Trace: 794085747/mk-filter-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com/B2C/$THROTTLED_DYNAMIC/b2c-CUSTOMER-DYNAMIC-IP/88.104.27.86/None/johne53@tiscali.co.uk X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 88.104.27.86 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: johne53@tiscali.co.uk X-SMTP-AUTH: X-Originating-Country: GB/UNITED KINGDOM X-MUA: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApIBAO+gClBYaBtW/2dsb2JhbAANOL0FAQEBAwE6TwtGVzSHbKsvk0OLToM3gjxgA5sOjSU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,629,1336345200"; d="scan'208";a="794085747" Received: from 88-104-27-86.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com (HELO [192.168.1.2]) ([88.104.27.86]) by smtp.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 21 Jul 2012 13:32:05 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Subject: Re: Fully winding down my involvement in GTK+ From: John Emmas In-Reply-To: <500A30E9.2080207@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:32:04 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <47686A8C-660B-418C-AD25-3996E18DC943@tiscali.co.uk> References: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> <500A30E9.2080207@gmail.com> To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:43:44 -0000 On 21 Jul 2012, at 05:32, Michael Torrie wrote: >=20 > Now that you mention this, I have noticed practically no traffic on = any > of the devel lists in the last few years. I am probably not alone in > thinking GTK development had stalled (though GTK 3 is obvious evidence > to the contrary!) >=20 > [...] >=20 > As a lurker who would like to follow gtk development, if the = developers > would return to the list I think it would be of great benefit to > potential contributors like me >=20 I'm not sure either if that's a reality or simply an impression but it's = definitely the same impression that I feel about GTK+. Kris's departure = after already losing Tor Lillqvist will be another body blow to Glib and = GTK+. I'd like to echo Michael's comments. Whatever might be going on 'under = the hood' with GTK+ development, there's a feeling that the developers = have somehow become disconnected from the users. My particular interest = is gtk-win32 which I now prefer to MFC - but whenever I've needed = support, I've tended to feel that I'm being supported by other users and = that the developers don't really care about my experiences or problems = (with some notable exceptions like Tor and Kris). Or maybe there's just = a shortage of developers at the moment. =46rom a user's perspective = it's hard to tell. GTK+ is a fantastic product but it'll struggle to survive if it keeps = losing developers of this calibre. I hope someone can find a solution. John= From ebassi@gmail.com Sat Jul 21 12:50:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FF63750120 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:50:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.622 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.622 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077] autolearn=ham Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jJkyPa5MKcyy for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:50:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCA2A7500EB for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:50:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so11535860obb.27 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 05:50:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to; bh=7AAf9OOKi37uPHy/XNm+kymp6zQmaOoq8WvArzDtgTM=; b=lLxTRIX/lC2G5HybMSoFOwIMjoPSiEbr6pv9ofcsiB97EttMDFFyd9CQMGBqa3VXzw mG2v5r8RYRkWlRMrarAoau1gyuugekAZ/FN+KD3cQA2Ngb/pkaX5b2GXI7h5FERmmJx7 GpNlUA4sBxXIVuMO1VcnLkZyB+dyRp8TnIYnFszVa4TIZ0OJzbBwkEe4b36t0qaBHxhT 982uLIKGleXv4PPi4RDEkCa1mB8eo0y2FFHM+LlWMLwnWF+uhAcfE/UMzNUDidcJM8Je PfJjsbNpBGOHh5T4bI73TwXeuDoNmzllvStnkHg6+FzFCzFzsHT11gKnmEMeNISQ7I0+ 2WQw== Received: by 10.50.209.73 with SMTP id mk9mr6552093igc.66.1342875020774; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 05:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.205.130.142] ([209.226.201.250]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id wp10sm3095430igb.6.2012.07.21.05.50.20 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 21 Jul 2012 05:50:20 -0700 (PDT) References: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> <500A30E9.2080207@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <500A30E9.2080207@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) From: Emmanuele Bassi Subject: Re: Fully winding down my involvement in GTK+ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 08:50:20 -0400 To: Michael Torrie Cc: "gtk-devel-list@gnome.org" X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:50:34 -0000 Hi; I actually wanted to reply to Kris on that particular point as well. After all these years, I find mailing list a terrible, terrible way of discu= ssing about project development. It may be okay from a perspective of keepin= g up with what happens in gtk-land, but I'd contend that using the git log R= SS feed or the commit list is probably a better option. Let's have a look at what was proposed for discussion on the mailing list: t= ree view, scrolling, CSS, design and integration of new widgets, using Clutt= er for drawing widget elements. None of these topics raised enough awareness= or gathered enough discussions - except the usual derailing coming from arc= hitecture astronauts, or the usual background noise. The actual feedback was= little, and usually ended up either in bugzilla or on IRC anyway. We had lots of discussions and feedback during hackfests and conferences, th= ough, especially from people not involved in the day to day development of g= tk, but still users or developers of our platform. This all but points to a simple fact: gtk, and the problems it tries to solv= e, have now become big enough to warrant high bandwidth discussions, as well= as a fast iteration model. A mailing list is simply too fragmented, slow, a= nd with a signal-to-noise ratio clearly skewed towards he latter. A far too common example: an API is proposed, discussed, implemented, and re= leased; the stable cycle rolls around, and only after 9 months people propos= e changes to accomodate their application code. I concede that this is a res= ult of our lack of QA, and the fact that app developers have issues keeping u= p with the API additions in the platform, but this would not be solved by in= creasing the length of our development cycles (after all, people complained t= hat we took too much time to spin stable releases, and that gtk development a= ppeared to stall). Application developers simply don't want to use bleeding e= dge versions of gtk, and they discover issues with their usage of the newly a= dded API Only when it's too late to change it - and they are understandably n= ot so keen in changing their code. One thing that us involved in the development of gtk should resume doing are= the biweekly IRC meetings, and send the minutes on the making list; this at= least would increase awareness of the changes planned or being developed in= the platform. Application developers should, in return, raise agenda points= and point at bugs and mail, and possibly attend the meetings if clarificati= ons are required. Ciao, Emmanuele. On 21 Jul 2012, at 00:32, Michael Torrie wrote: > On 07/19/2012 06:54 AM, Kristian Rietveld wrote: >> Also, I struggle to identify with the community these days -- that >> is, I do not agree how GTK+ is being developed. Discussions appear to >> mainly happen on IRC, which I can impossibly follow, contrary to on >> the mailing list;=20 >=20 > Now that you mention this, I have noticed practically no traffic on any > of the devel lists in the last few years. I am probably not alone in > thinking GTK development had stalled (though GTK 3 is obvious evidence > to the contrary!). Does not give a good message to potential GTK users > who want to check things out. The non-devel lists do have a fair amount > of traffic, but it is now somewhat rare to have core GTK developers > participate like they used to in the old days. >=20 > I agree heartily that the mailing list is a much better place for > tracking development. IRC is too instantaneous (time zones preclude > participation often), and IRC logs are extremely tedious and difficult > to follow as they lack the structure that e-mail has. >=20 > As a lurker who would like to follow gtk development, if the developers > would return to the list I think it would be of great benefit to > potential contributors like me (though maybe the potential is too small > to even consider). Certainly as long as GTK development discussions > primarily take place on IRC I will be unable to follow and even consider > contributing in any way, even a tiny way. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > gtk-devel-list mailing list > gtk-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list From ebassi@gmail.com Sat Jul 21 12:55:20 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBB8D7500EB for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:55:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.545 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.545 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077, TW_LQ=0.077] autolearn=ham Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kBM8EI+2yGrt for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:55:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 432E6750120 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:54:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so11544614obb.27 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 05:54:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to; bh=aD+dopNtonoAeR6U1xB+9JMa5uBnnhpGIj+gHdDd3sM=; b=VBYX2jAE1nDt9CpVPcJELQ3G7PnHjh4Qn82BGZggEurNeCB0CzvWxelbNXUqoqY3WZ vmq62aWElJfV6n5iw0oUquuXHAlRvJg8uuishSk3wBcDZnU5Vlq8ju4XQkZAUv30o0H7 LaLPGHakYb3j/Kx720FNVIg83rp2lreUqTD0BsQdpgP6ix2KP7WENYdKsU7jF/LCcJjm 6oR7sCFb/WZoWY2Fvhv/0T2EPFNhk2eAHQdET4sn72/pI11mRexYIzs0p8blzFOOizzm EHiXA+9eLL4p9OuDMROg2+sSn1tkgCATTt0cYDKRnAnVtjjeuqUR6s2R3r3S2snjuL/U ByuQ== Received: by 10.50.190.230 with SMTP id gt6mr6595464igc.48.1342875296396; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 05:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.205.130.142] ([209.226.201.250]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id uy3sm1351276igc.14.2012.07.21.05.54.55 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 21 Jul 2012 05:54:56 -0700 (PDT) References: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> <500A30E9.2080207@gmail.com> <47686A8C-660B-418C-AD25-3996E18DC943@tiscali.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <47686A8C-660B-418C-AD25-3996E18DC943@tiscali.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <2D44BB2D-AB3D-492E-B25B-3DDB3D067934@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) From: Emmanuele Bassi Subject: Re: Fully winding down my involvement in GTK+ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 08:54:56 -0400 To: John Emmas Cc: "gtk-devel-list@gnome.org" X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:55:20 -0000 Hi John; The situation with the win32 and quartz backends has not really changed over= the years: the only fully maintained backend is the x11 backend mostly beca= use that is the backend that most of the people involved in the development o= f gtk happen to use. Some users have started looking at the backend code, bu= t they are few and far between - and in most cases they are application deve= lopers first, so they (understandably) care about their app functionality. So, I would like a concrete proposal: how do you think we can change this tr= end? Ciao, Emmanuele. On 21 Jul 2012, at 08:32, John Emmas wrote: > On 21 Jul 2012, at 05:32, Michael Torrie wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> Now that you mention this, I have noticed practically no traffic on any >> of the devel lists in the last few years. I am probably not alone in >> thinking GTK development had stalled (though GTK 3 is obvious evidence >> to the contrary!) >>=20 >> [...] >>=20 >> As a lurker who would like to follow gtk development, if the developers >> would return to the list I think it would be of great benefit to >> potential contributors like me >>=20 >=20 > I'm not sure either if that's a reality or simply an impression but it's d= efinitely the same impression that I feel about GTK+. Kris's departure afte= r already losing Tor Lillqvist will be another body blow to Glib and GTK+. >=20 > I'd like to echo Michael's comments. Whatever might be going on 'under th= e hood' with GTK+ development, there's a feeling that the developers have so= mehow become disconnected from the users. My particular interest is gtk-win= 32 which I now prefer to MFC - but whenever I've needed support, I've tended= to feel that I'm being supported by other users and that the developers don= 't really care about my experiences or problems (with some notable exception= s like Tor and Kris). Or maybe there's just a shortage of developers at the= moment. =46rom a user's perspective it's hard to tell. >=20 > GTK+ is a fantastic product but it'll struggle to survive if it keeps losi= ng developers of this calibre. I hope someone can find a solution. >=20 > John > _______________________________________________ > gtk-devel-list mailing list > gtk-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list From johne53@tiscali.co.uk Sat Jul 21 13:44:53 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26FF97500CC for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:44:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.661 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.661 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2GR5EvumyJWb for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:44:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mk-filter-2-a-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-filter-2-a-1.mail.tiscali.co.uk [212.74.100.53]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 990D07500EB for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:44:32 +0000 (UTC) X-Trace: 794096241/mk-filter-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com/B2C/$THROTTLED_DYNAMIC/b2c-CUSTOMER-DYNAMIC-IP/88.104.27.86/None/johne53@tiscali.co.uk X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 88.104.27.86 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: johne53@tiscali.co.uk X-SMTP-AUTH: X-Originating-Country: GB/UNITED KINGDOM X-MUA: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApIBAE6xClBYaBtW/2dsb2JhbAANLgq9BQEBAQMBOjQbCyQiVzSHbKsEkz2LThALgxyCPGADmw6NJQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,629,1336345200"; d="scan'208";a="794096241" Received: from 88-104-27-86.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com (HELO [192.168.1.2]) ([88.104.27.86]) by smtp.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 21 Jul 2012 14:44:30 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Subject: Re: Fully winding down my involvement in GTK+ From: John Emmas In-Reply-To: <2D44BB2D-AB3D-492E-B25B-3DDB3D067934@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 14:44:30 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <748A5DB4-2F1A-40AF-808C-29EB8ADC6A52@tiscali.co.uk> References: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> <500A30E9.2080207@gmail.com> <47686A8C-660B-418C-AD25-3996E18DC943@tiscali.co.uk> <2D44BB2D-AB3D-492E-B25B-3DDB3D067934@gmail.com> To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:44:53 -0000 On 21 Jul 2012, at 13:54, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: >=20 > So, I would like a concrete proposal: how do you think we can change = this trend? >=20 Well the first requirement would be to identify the problem(s). I'm = guessing that the biggest problem for developers is the huge amount of = their free time they end up having to devote to GTK+. If that is indeed = a big problem, an obvious (though difficult) solution might be to = encourage sponsorship from GTK+ users. i know there are companies like = Red Hat and Sun who sponsor other open source projects. Maybe GTK+ = needs to find such a sponsor (assuming there isn't already one?) It's = certainly an important enough project to warrant some kind of patron or = benefactor. But that's the difficult solution. Another problem is the disconnection = between developers and users - again (probably) caused by too many = demands on the developers' time. I agree with you Emmanuele and I also = agree with Mike... IRC _AND_ mailing lists are both dreadful ways of = interacting between users and devs. IRC is fine for devs (assuming they = aren't in wildly different time zones) but once you introduce users to = IRC, you can quickly eat up huge amounts of the developers' time. = Mailing lists take up less time (and they have better record keeping) = but on the downside, everybody gets a copy of every discussion which is = redundant and annoying. Perhaps an answer would be to play down the = mailing lists and IRC (for users) and encourage more use of the GTK+ = forum. The great advantages of forums are:- 1) They keep a reasonably ordered record of discussions. 2) Users only see the discussions they want to subscribe to. 3) Users feel more connected to the product than they do with a mailing = list. 4) Developers can dip into discussions as and when it's convenient for = them. 5) Some users can be 'Power Users' who help the others (thereby reducing = time pressures on the actual devs). Some of those things are theoretically possible with a mailing list - = but forums definitely handle them better. I'm sure there are lots of = other things that would help too. We just need to start thinking them = up! John= From tristan.van.berkom@gmail.com Sat Jul 21 18:05:50 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 998EA7501EE for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:05:50 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.523 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TW_GT=0.077] autolearn=ham Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oPBbyaQj8ADN for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:05:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vc0-f182.google.com (mail-vc0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32FA47501A0 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:05:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcbgb22 with SMTP id gb22so2588131vcb.27 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 11:05:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=w0IAjSKbgPqIUuWEUAaUYg7sp+9H1605E/H/Wv1/0Nk=; b=upfOuPnuEOv8yo+kPZclKdzHGljHtO+GxuuKbV2G+zQ/vQEGsM/js1/gfCsV31Khf4 4d5F5Xd1UQCShfrsTdI/7QJJWgUbcDrS5tQ8IIxao29/MBUGDLL7oOiD+KGHMDWMd5QH cqPcJu+JAv11uRLosIdPEEndf1/5qZqX8OqvwCZSoU4xuEQreBhdT/Q/BlqT+vMkZ/z2 UnyIUoX536Pl0QhxCDcJ7rlwqw5qfdoN2FJ7uI/czxIuu7Gra9iHXhkmOYILSesYS5SV se7MsTINxS54wFlbhW1zpIEODxCMiAL4+Tx26BbqeBLISWrbgB0kyQfCKSTKGYWHjg00 cTTw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.89.35 with SMTP id bl3mr6946412vdb.106.1342893938181; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 11:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Sender: tristan.van.berkom@gmail.com Received: by 10.58.31.196 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 11:05:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <500A30E9.2080207@gmail.com> References: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> <500A30E9.2080207@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 14:05:38 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: k38NLEVlNYa888o9Y0Kkzi9KPMQ Message-ID: Subject: Re: Fully winding down my involvement in GTK+ From: Tristan Van Berkom To: Michael Torrie Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:05:50 -0000 On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 12:32 AM, Michael Torrie wrote: > On 07/19/2012 06:54 AM, Kristian Rietveld wrote: >> Also, I struggle to identify with the community these days -- that >> is, I do not agree how GTK+ is being developed. Discussions appear to >> mainly happen on IRC, which I can impossibly follow, contrary to on >> the mailing list; > > Now that you mention this, I have noticed practically no traffic on any > of the devel lists in the last few years. I am probably not alone in > thinking GTK development had stalled (though GTK 3 is obvious evidence > to the contrary!). Does not give a good message to potential GTK users > who want to check things out. The non-devel lists do have a fair amount > of traffic, but it is now somewhat rare to have core GTK developers > participate like they used to in the old days. > > I agree heartily that the mailing list is a much better place for > tracking development. IRC is too instantaneous (time zones preclude > participation often), and IRC logs are extremely tedious and difficult > to follow as they lack the structure that e-mail has. > > As a lurker who would like to follow gtk development, if the developers > would return to the list I think it would be of great benefit to > potential contributors like me (though maybe the potential is too small > to even consider). Certainly as long as GTK development discussions > primarily take place on IRC I will be unable to follow and even consider > contributing in any way, even a tiny way. I can see the perspective that one might have as a user or as a potential tentative contributor. >From a developer stand point, and I think I see where Kris is going with his statements, I think that if we're going to stop using the mailing list and discussing changes of relative or greater impact to the software, then as a contributor, it feels like a flat out waste of time to contribute to that project on your own free time and dollar. Usually a contributor will have sporadic moments in which they can contribute significant portions of GTK+, we all have our areas of knowledge and our reasoning of why we implemented things the way that we did. When some poeple go ahead and start making serious changes at a rapid rate without consulting the mailing list, with only some IRC quick discussions... well... dont expect that it's up to Kris to go sifting through the IRC logs and find the day that someone broke the treeview code... and don't expect me to automatically know when the size request caching logic gets broken because someone wants CSS to be ideal and perfect and is willing to queue resizes on every random widget in order to get there. However, we ALL read the mailing list. If you bring up your proposal on gtk-devel-list about how you intended to do something that might implicitly break GtkTreeView code, well up until now we would always have Kris to notice that.. and guide us better wrt code that he knows better. Honestly though, we shouldn't let ourselves run unchecked like this for too long, it was GTK+3.0 that was released, yes it has not reached a level of stability what we've come to expect from GTK+ 2.0 Yes that allows us to brake more things between releases, and yes that's generally a good thing while GTK+ 3.0 is a young new API ... and I think it's entirely fair to say that developers have been bleeding to deliver something cool for a new GTK+ 3.0 API... and that discussing everything in the normal manner would have slowed things down. Sigh, and on a not-so-completely-off-topic... I also miss how we used to have module proposal on d-d-l... -Tristan From torriem@gmail.com Sun Jul 22 01:14:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D95F7500E3 for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 01:14:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.219 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k2HvVNCQRVfK for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 01:14:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.torriefamily.org (shell.torriefamily.org [74.207.242.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39C277500CF for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 01:14:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.torriefamily.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A15526DEE3 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 19:14:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at torriefamily.org Received: from mail.torriefamily.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.torriefamily.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id NuPy1v8sTP46 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 19:14:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.12.100] (unknown [192.168.12.100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.torriefamily.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 076336D661 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 19:14:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <500B53D9.2020800@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 19:14:01 -0600 From: Michael Torrie User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:10.0.6esrpre) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/10.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Fully winding down my involvement in GTK+ References: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> <500A30E9.2080207@gmail.com> <47686A8C-660B-418C-AD25-3996E18DC943@tiscali.co.uk> <2D44BB2D-AB3D-492E-B25B-3DDB3D067934@gmail.com> <748A5DB4-2F1A-40AF-808C-29EB8ADC6A52@tiscali.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <748A5DB4-2F1A-40AF-808C-29EB8ADC6A52@tiscali.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 01:14:19 -0000 On 07/21/2012 07:44 AM, John Emmas wrote: > Perhaps an answer would be to play down the mailing lists and IRC > (for users) and encourage more use of the GTK+ forum. The great > advantages of forums are:- My vote is e-mail or nntp instead of forums. > > 1) They keep a reasonably ordered record of discussions. Sure, but e-mail lists or nntp can do this as well, and are, in my opinion, more easily searched by google, provided the list archive is public, which almost all listservs can do. > 2) Users only see the discussions they want to subscribe to. I'm not sure such fine-grained control is that useful to the community that GTK devs might be wanting to reach. Splitting the lists by purpose (devel vs application development) seems good enough. > 3) Users feel more connected to the product than they do with a mailing list. Only in your opinion. > 4) Developers can dip into discussions as and when it's convenient for > them. This is the beauty of using e-mailing lists or newsgroups and a real e-mail client like Thunderbird or any traditional client. Threaded views allow this much more easily than forums. No need to "bump" a topic just to keep it in sight. Web forums tend to lose participation in topics quickly if other topics are also popular and bump them off. > 5) Some users can be 'Power Users' who help the others (thereby > reducing time pressures on the actual devs). Sure, but on forums I do frequent, I just find the colored badges annoying because they don't really relate to the person's knowledge levels necessarily. On the list we already can tell quickly (after a week or two) who knows what they are talking about and who have good answers to questions. At least it is very apparent on other lists I'm on. > Some of those things are theoretically possible with a mailing list - > but forums definitely handle them better. I'm sure there are lots of > other things that would help too. We just need to start thinking > them up! I can't think of anything a forum can do better than lists myself. I consider web-based forums to be the scourge of the internet. What I definitely do not need is another web forum to have to follow. The fact that RSS feed aggregators even exist would seem to me to be proof of the inadequacies of web-based solutions. E-mail lists or newsgroups work excellently well for the following reasons: 1. Everything is in one place as far as I'm concerned. I simply fire up Thunderbird and the mailing lists from the dozen or so lists I follow are all there in their own neat little folders which I can open up and browse very quickly without having to go to a url, possibly remember usernames and passwords, etc. Perhaps those that prefer forums need simply to be introduced to IMAP folders and automatic mail filters which are brain-dead simple to set up (Gmail can do them with just a single click, "filter messages from this list"). 2. E-mail clients are way faster than forums. Except for the D language forum, every forum I have ever used was frustratingly slow. 3. E-mail has a threaded structure that few forums have. Forums tend to be pretty much be linear, which only works well for a conversation between two people. In real life, conversation between many people often involves branches or threads of discussion. Indeed in thunderbird I can watch parts of a thread work out, and ignore other parts. For example, on the python list, any branch of a thread that involves certain people who are known trolls is almost certainly not worth even going down. However other branches of the same thread from other respected people are going to be insightful and informative so I will read those. Almost all forums have no similar structure. Even worse most forum affectionados stare at me blankly when I talk about threaded topics. They don't even realize what they are. I kind of blame google for this and their "conversation" view of e-mail which fails horribly for the kind of needs that have been mentioned by the parent and grandparent posters. 4. More usernames and passwords required to participate, and often even to search. With e-mail, posting a message is normally just a matter of sending from a registered e-mail address. Spam can be a problem, sure. But forum spam gets bad too. 5. E-mail just works better on handheld devices. I don't want to have to mess with the mobile web browser for dozens of forums, or worse an app for each forum that is really just a mobile browser. Tapatalk makes life a bit easier for mobile users, but still that's a proprietary solution. 6. I'd rather use my e-mail client's editor than some tiny html editor widget. I hate forums so much that I once wrote a python app that would scrape a web forum and offer it as an nntp source. Forums, since they lack the true threaded structure I mentioned, don't map especially well to e-mail or nntp unfortunately, so I abandoned the project. Just my thoughts. From torriem@gmail.com Sun Jul 22 03:36:26 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 711AC7500ED for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 03:36:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.879 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MALFORMED_FREEMAIL=1, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, TW_GT=0.077] autolearn=no Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fd3K6eQKHaZN for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 03:36:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.torriefamily.org (shell.torriefamily.org [74.207.242.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CFD97500CF for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 03:36:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.torriefamily.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 581B7101D8F for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:36:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at torriefamily.org Received: from mail.torriefamily.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.torriefamily.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id IQEHSJgg1GtC for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.12.100] (unknown [192.168.12.100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.torriefamily.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F56F101D8E for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <500B751D.1010206@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 21:35:57 -0600 From: Michael Torrie User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:10.0.6esrpre) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/10.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: "gtk-devel-list@gnome.org" Subject: Re: Fully winding down my involvement in GTK+ References: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> <500A30E9.2080207@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 03:36:26 -0000 On 07/21/2012 06:50 AM, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: > One thing that us involved in the development of gtk should resume > doing are the biweekly IRC meetings, and send the minutes on the > making list; this at least would increase awareness of the changes > planned or being developed in the platform. Application developers > should, in return, raise agenda points and point at bugs and mail, > and possibly attend the meetings if clarifications are required. I think this would be very helpful. Although it sounds like a fair amount of work for developers who are actually writing code and trying to get things done. I used to love reading the Wine weekly news updates, which summarized the bug fixes, list traffic, and IRC traffic, but they've long since stopped because of the time and effort involved. I'm not sure what the best solution is. I take your points about the limitations of e-mail, and even IRC. Qt (probably the only competing toolkit in all honesty) has the advantage of having a lot of their developers close together and development can happen in a fairly traditional way. Though I'm not at all sure how they deal with external developers scattered across the world. From johne53@tiscali.co.uk Sun Jul 22 10:20:23 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84EF5750138 for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 10:20:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.661 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.661 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RW+sijplRT8i for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 10:20:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mk-filter-2-a-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-filter-2-a-1.mail.tiscali.co.uk [212.74.100.53]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12B5D750086 for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 10:20:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Trace: 794253055/mk-filter-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com/B2C/$THROTTLED_DYNAMIC/b2c-CUSTOMER-DYNAMIC-IP/88.104.23.146/None/johne53@tiscali.co.uk X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 88.104.23.146 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: johne53@tiscali.co.uk X-SMTP-AUTH: X-Originating-Country: GB/UNITED KINGDOM X-MUA: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApIBAMXSC1BYaBeS/2dsb2JhbAANOL0DAQEBAwE6FCAbC0ZXLQkEh2arVpJRi02DN4I8YAObEY0lgV4 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,633,1336345200"; d="scan'208";a="794253055" Received: from 88-104-23-146.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com (HELO [192.168.1.2]) ([88.104.23.146]) by smtp.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 22 Jul 2012 11:20:08 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Subject: Re: Fully winding down my involvement in GTK+ From: John Emmas In-Reply-To: <500B53D9.2020800@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 11:20:07 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> <500A30E9.2080207@gmail.com> <47686A8C-660B-418C-AD25-3996E18DC943@tiscali.co.uk> <2D44BB2D-AB3D-492E-B25B-3DDB3D067934@gmail.com> <748A5DB4-2F1A-40AF-808C-29EB8ADC6A52@tiscali.co.uk> <500B53D9.2020800@gmail.com> To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 10:20:23 -0000 On 22 Jul 2012, at 02:14, Michael Torrie wrote: >=20 > I consider web-based forums to be the scourge of the internet. >=20 Curiously, that's exactly how I feel about mailing lists. Mailing lists = work well as long as the volume of traffic is relatively low. They = probably also work well if you're a dedicated user who's willing to = install and configure an email client that supports them. But once they = start becoming busy, mailing lists become a turn-off for the average = user who doesn't want that level of sophistication and doesn't need to = be involved in most of the discussions. Taking myself as an example... during the past 3 years I've probably = signed up to 30 mailing lists. Today, only 3 of those subscriptions are = still active. I've unsubscribed from the other 27. Conversely, I've never unsubscribed from a web forum. There are plenty = of forums that I use only rarely - but I've never unsubscribed from one. = I still feel a connection to the relevant community, even if I rarely = use it. But I don't feel any connection at all to a community once I've = unsubscribed from its mailing list. So if the aim is to make users feel more engaged / more connected, I = don't believe that mailing lists are helpful. In fact, if that's what = you're trying to achieve I'd go as far as saying that mailing lists are = actually a hindrance. Whilst they can (and do) build a strong sense of = community between developers and the more dedicated users, the high = volume of traffic (which often isn't of much interest to the more casual = user) makes them feel irrelevant and excluded. That's been my = experience anyway. John= From torriem@gmail.com Sun Jul 22 14:02:53 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2873A75013F for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 14:02:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.219 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FT0DxfsXOytL for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 14:02:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.torriefamily.org (shell.torriefamily.org [74.207.242.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE9C750171 for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 14:02:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.torriefamily.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 478FD6DEE3 for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 08:02:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at torriefamily.org Received: from mail.torriefamily.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.torriefamily.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id yCv+3rjQoQkj for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 08:02:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.12.100] (unknown [192.168.12.100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.torriefamily.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FFEC6D661 for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 08:02:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <500C07F0.9090507@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 08:02:24 -0600 From: Michael Torrie User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:10.0.6esrpre) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/10.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Fully winding down my involvement in GTK+ References: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> <500A30E9.2080207@gmail.com> <47686A8C-660B-418C-AD25-3996E18DC943@tiscali.co.uk> <2D44BB2D-AB3D-492E-B25B-3DDB3D067934@gmail.com> <748A5DB4-2F1A-40AF-808C-29EB8ADC6A52@tiscali.co.uk> <500B53D9.2020800@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 14:02:53 -0000 On 07/22/2012 04:20 AM, John Emmas wrote: > That's been my experience anyway. With no facts stated to support your response, it is merely your opinion. My opinion is also just an opinion, however I believe the points in support of my opinion are factual and logical (which you haven't refuted). Calling for a forum because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy is nice but it doesn't prove anything. I'm not opposed to a forum provided that it a) has a full threaded structure like e-mail has, and b) has a good gateway for e-mail or nntp. In general I mean. From dieterv@optionexplicit.be Sun Jul 22 14:08:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51EF9750086 for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 14:08:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L-BMkP7H0WKB for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 14:08:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.webfaction.com (mail6.webfaction.com [74.55.86.74]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C5F9750080 for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 14:07:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [141.134.243.103] (d8D86F367.access.telenet.be [141.134.243.103]) by smtp.webfaction.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A73212836D; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 09:07:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <500C0935.1040405@optionexplicit.be> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 16:07:49 +0200 From: Dieter Verfaillie User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111222 Thunderbird/9.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Torrie Subject: Re: Fully winding down my involvement in GTK+ References: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> <500A30E9.2080207@gmail.com> <47686A8C-660B-418C-AD25-3996E18DC943@tiscali.co.uk> <2D44BB2D-AB3D-492E-B25B-3DDB3D067934@gmail.com> <748A5DB4-2F1A-40AF-808C-29EB8ADC6A52@tiscali.co.uk> <500B53D9.2020800@gmail.com> <500C07F0.9090507@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <500C07F0.9090507@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 14:08:13 -0000 On 22/07/2012 16:02, Michael Torrie wrote: > On 07/22/2012 04:20 AM, John Emmas wrote: >> That's been my experience anyway. > > With no facts stated to support your response, it is merely your > opinion. My opinion is also just an opinion, however I believe the > points in support of my opinion are factual and logical (which you > haven't refuted). Calling for a forum because it makes you feel warm > and fuzzy is nice but it doesn't prove anything. > > I'm not opposed to a forum provided that it a) has a full threaded > structure like e-mail has, and b) has a good gateway for e-mail or nntp. > In general I mean. How about a forum-ish web interface on top of the mailing lists we already have? Would give us the best of both worlds (more manageable for the slightly more technical user and more approachable for everyone else). mvg, Dieter From johne53@tiscali.co.uk Sun Jul 22 14:53:50 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Delivered-To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710A675013F for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 14:53:50 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.661 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.661 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ykZFlMcLfXRd for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 14:53:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mk-filter-4-a-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-filter-4-a-1.mail.tiscali.co.uk [212.74.100.55]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13F97750080 for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 14:53:27 +0000 (UTC) X-Trace: 788432170/mk-filter-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com/B2C/$THROTTLED_DYNAMIC/b2c-CUSTOMER-DYNAMIC-IP/88.104.30.217/None/johne53@tiscali.co.uk X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 88.104.30.217 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: johne53@tiscali.co.uk X-SMTP-AUTH: X-Originating-Country: GB/UNITED KINGDOM X-MUA: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Aq8BAIISDFBYaB7Z/2dsb2JhbAANOLYGhn0BAQEDAToUIBALCxguVzYEh2arYJJUi02DN4I8YAObEY0l X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,633,1336345200"; d="scan'208";a="788432170" Received: from 88-104-30-217.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com (HELO [192.168.1.2]) ([88.104.30.217]) by smtp.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 22 Jul 2012 15:53:24 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Subject: Re: Fully winding down my involvement in GTK+ From: John Emmas In-Reply-To: <500C07F0.9090507@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 15:53:23 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2A7C396B-0801-4614-BE9E-A1308012DE32@tiscali.co.uk> References: <3D99F77C-F4FB-4CA5-B429-D4661D69CF5B@loopnest.org> <500A30E9.2080207@gmail.com> <47686A8C-660B-418C-AD25-3996E18DC943@tiscali.co.uk> <2D44BB2D-AB3D-492E-B25B-3DDB3D067934@gmail.com> <748A5DB4-2F1A-40AF-808C-29EB8ADC6A52@tiscali.co.uk> <500B53D9.2020800@gmail.com> <500C07F0.9090507@gmail.com> To: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-BeenThere: gtk-devel-list@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of GTK+ List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help:

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