From cerdiogenes at yahoo.com.br Mon Jun 19 09:57:21 2006 From: cerdiogenes at yahoo.com.br (Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?=) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:57:21 -0300 Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite Message-ID: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Hi guys, I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our community members have in mind about this. If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do this work in older hardware. Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I will start to play. Thanks, -- Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di?genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From Peter.Korn at Sun.COM Tue Jun 20 15:14:19 2006 From: Peter.Korn at Sun.COM (Peter Korn) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:19 -0700 Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite In-Reply-To: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Message-ID: <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> Hi Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues, I believe the cost of new video cards is coming down so rapidly that the best place for most of our magnification investment is around COMPOSITE. Every customer I come in contact with around UNIX accessibility compares what we are doing to the state of the art in Windows commercial software. And users have come to expect this level of quality, and depend upon the efficiency and productivity that is affords them (and are NOT willing to give that up). I agree that to make good use of COMPOSITE, the magnifier must know about most window manager tasks. I think the best way to do this is to build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window manager(s) of our desktop(s). I don't see a lot of value to keeping the magnifier separate from the window manager. All that said, users who don't have the resources for modern graphics cards are an important group, and your idea of an OverlayWindow is an interesting one. I'm curious to see where that investigation goes! Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > Hi guys, > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > community members have in mind about this. > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > this work in older hardware. > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > will start to play. > > Thanks, > From cerdiogenes at yahoo.com.br Mon Jun 19 15:55:15 2006 From: cerdiogenes at yahoo.com.br (Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?=) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:55:15 -0300 Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite In-Reply-To: <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> Message-ID: <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Hi Peter, On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 12:14 -0700, Peter Korn wrote: > Hi Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues, > > I believe the cost of new video cards is coming down so rapidly that the > best place for most of our magnification investment is around > COMPOSITE. Every customer I come in contact with around UNIX > accessibility compares what we are doing to the state of the art in > Windows commercial software. And users have come to expect this level > of quality, and depend upon the efficiency and productivity that is > affords them (and are NOT willing to give that up). > > I agree that to make good use of COMPOSITE, the magnifier must know > about most window manager tasks. I think the best way to do this is to > build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window > manager(s) of our desktop(s). I don't see a lot of value to keeping the > magnifier separate from the window manager. I think that compiz make something like this, isn't is? There is anyone that is working on this type of support in metacity? There is any documenation/discussion about magnification support in the compositing window manager? I have doubt if build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window manager is really the rigth place. I think that the best, from this scenario, is some sort of cooperation, but how? I think that looking inside compiz could give me some answears. I don't like the idea to merge these two kinds of applications, I think that if we could maintaim they modular, let's maintaim, for me this is the greatest value in keeping the magnifier separate from the window manager. > > All that said, users who don't have the resources for modern graphics > cards are an important group, and your idea of an OverlayWindow is an > interesting one. I'm curious to see where that investigation goes! > > > Regards, > > Peter Korn > Accessibility Architect, > Sun Microsystems, Inc. > > > Hi guys, > > > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > community members have in mind about this. > > > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > this work in older hardware. > > > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > will start to play. > > > > Thanks, > > > -- Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di?genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From gk4 at austin.ibm.com Tue Jun 20 16:47:12 2006 From: gk4 at austin.ibm.com (George Kraft) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:47:12 -0500 Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite In-Reply-To: <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Message-ID: <1150836432.10012.252.camel@gk4.austin.ibm.com> On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 16:55 -0300, Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di?genes wrote: > There is anyone that is working on this type of support in metacity? > There is any documenation/discussion about magnification support in > the compositing window manager? Soren has stubbed in magnification into metacity. I was going to help, but I've been distracted. Also, I've recently published http://xmcm.sourceforge.net/ Best regards, -- George (gk4) From daniel.cotto@wanadoo.fr Sun Jun 11 06:04:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6394D3B0092 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02487-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.wanadoo.fr (smtp5.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01F9D3B03C2 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mlusine (ACaen-152-1-86-248.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr [86.205.244.248]) by mwinf0512.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id C52861C001EC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:03:11 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060611100311807.C52861C001EC@mwinf0512.orange.fr From: "Daniel COTTO" To: "GnomeAccessibilityDevel" Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:03:13 +0200 Message-ID: <000301c68d3e$407647a0$0b01a8c0@mlusine> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: AcaNPkAWdeh9Cp6AR+uGUqKI+xaBmg== X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.987 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, TW_GD=0.077] X-Spam-Score: 1.987 X-Spam-Level: * Subject: [g-a-devel] Problem using gnopernicus in the latest debian testing release X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:04:07 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 I=92am just upgrading my debian testing and concequently I got the = testing version of brltty (3.7.2-3) and gnopernicus (1.0.4). The gnome version = used is: 2.14. =20 My problem: * I log from gdm and my num-lock is on. * When I use the numpad key, Gnopernicus seem to run the appropriates commands but the corresponding numeric key is sent to the application, = and so, I write this numbers. =20 An illustration: I=92am in the gnome desktop: I hit the 7 key, an =E8 is echoed in the = inputbox. I do the same thing in mozilla, I can see the title bar. =20 Have you an idea ? =20 Thans =20 Daniel =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

I’am just upgrading my debian testing = and concequently I got the testing version of brltty (3.7.2-3) and gnopernicus (1.0.4). = The gnome version used is: 2.14.

 

My problem:

  • I log = from gdm and my num-lock is on.
  • When I = use the numpad key, Gnopernicus seem to run the appropriates commands but the = corresponding numeric key is sent to the application, and so, I write this = numbers.

 

An illustration:

I’am in the gnome desktop: I hit the 7 = key, an =E8 is echoed in the inputbox. I do the same thing in mozilla, I can see the = title bar.

 

Have you an idea = ?

 

Thans

 

Daniel

 

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0-- From mclasen@redhat.com Mon Jun 12 09:40:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C743B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04507-04 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFEE3B00A7 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CDGF34023554 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Received: from mail.boston.redhat.com (mail.boston.redhat.com [172.16.76.12]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CDGF1D021144 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Received: from golem.boston.redhat.com (golem.boston.redhat.com [172.16.80.24]) by mail.boston.redhat.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5CDGFlQ031838 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 From: Matthias Clasen To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Message-Id: <1150118175.15532.6.camel@golem.boston.redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.1 (2.7.1-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.541 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.541 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:40:15 -0000 Are we serious about a11y ? A few weeks ago, I asked about a11y gaps in new GTK+ feature, but I never heard anything back, except from our QA people, who try to use the a11y framework for automated testing. So I finally sat down last night and wrote minimal a11y support for GtkAssistant myself last night. I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. Obviously, that is not happening. I'm tempted to remove the icon view a11y code after 2.10, if nobody steps forward to fix it. Shipping broken code helps nobody... Matthias From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Tue Jun 20 09:58:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 459A33B01B0 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18759-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (imap.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 766BD3B01A8 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NHGK3P7S; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:58:28 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:57:21 -0300 Message-Id: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.784 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.400, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_24_48=0.88, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.784 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:58:27 -0000 Hi guys, I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our community members have in mind about this. If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do this work in older hardware. Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I will start to play. Thanks, --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Tue Jun 20 15:14:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3613B0307 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07651-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F9193B01AB for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.39.120]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5KJER4K002898 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-10.sun.com by d1-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1600601API4100@d1-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.20.7] by d1-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J16001HLAS3X9B0@d1-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:19 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carlos_Eduardo_Rodrigues_Di=F3genes?= Message-id: <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:14:30 -0000 Hi Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues, I believe the cost of new video cards is coming down so rapidly that the best place for most of our magnification investment is around COMPOSITE. Every customer I come in contact with around UNIX accessibility compares what we are doing to the state of the art in Windows commercial software. And users have come to expect this level of quality, and depend upon the efficiency and productivity that is affords them (and are NOT willing to give that up). I agree that to make good use of COMPOSITE, the magnifier must know about most window manager tasks. I think the best way to do this is to build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window manager(s) of our desktop(s). I don't see a lot of value to keeping the magnifier separate from the window manager. All that said, users who don't have the resources for modern graphics cards are an important group, and your idea of an OverlayWindow is an interesting one. I'm curious to see where that investigation goes! Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > Hi guys, > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > community members have in mind about this. > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > this work in older hardware. > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > will start to play. > > Thanks, > From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Tue Jun 20 15:57:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4323B0155 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10359-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (webmail.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A8533B028F for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NHGK3YKV; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:57:10 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: Peter Korn In-Reply-To: <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:55:15 -0300 Message-Id: <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.78 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.396, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_24_48=0.88, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.78 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:57:58 -0000 Hi Peter, On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 12:14 -0700, Peter Korn wrote: > Hi Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues, >=20 > I believe the cost of new video cards is coming down so rapidly that the=20 > best place for most of our magnification investment is around=20 > COMPOSITE. Every customer I come in contact with around UNIX=20 > accessibility compares what we are doing to the state of the art in=20 > Windows commercial software. And users have come to expect this level=20 > of quality, and depend upon the efficiency and productivity that is=20 > affords them (and are NOT willing to give that up). >=20 > I agree that to make good use of COMPOSITE, the magnifier must know=20 > about most window manager tasks. I think the best way to do this is to=20 > build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window=20 > manager(s) of our desktop(s). I don't see a lot of value to keeping the=20 > magnifier separate from the window manager. I think that compiz make something like this, isn't is? There is anyone that is working on this type of support in metacity? There is any documenation/discussion about magnification support in the compositing window manager? I have doubt if build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window manager is really the rigth place. I think that the best, from this scenario, is some sort of cooperation, but how? I think that looking inside compiz could give me some answears. I don't like the idea to merge these two kinds of applications, I think that if we could maintaim they modular, let's maintaim, for me this is the greatest value in keeping the magnifier separate from the window manager. >=20 > All that said, users who don't have the resources for modern graphics=20 > cards are an important group, and your idea of an OverlayWindow is an=20 > interesting one. I'm curious to see where that investigation goes! >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Peter Korn > Accessibility Architect, > Sun Microsystems, Inc. >=20 > > Hi guys, > > > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > community members have in mind about this. > > > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like cod= e > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server ca= n > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have = a > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > this work in older hardware. > > > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents o= f > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reason= s > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > will start to play. > > > > Thanks, > > =20 >=20 --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From gk4@austin.ibm.com Tue Jun 20 16:50:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B2803B082C for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13556-05 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e5.ny.us.ibm.com (e5.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.145]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3983B04FC for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e5.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5KKo21n023832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:03 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.6/NCO/VER7.0) with ESMTP id k5KKo2Qp274726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:02 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k5KKo1uF012475 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:01 -0400 Received: from gk4.austin.ibm.com (gk4.austin.ibm.com [9.53.33.16]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5KKo10H012423; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:01 -0400 From: George Kraft To: "Carlos Eduardo R." =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= In-Reply-To: <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Organization: IBM Corp Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:47:12 -0500 Message-Id: <1150836432.10012.252.camel@gk4.austin.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.489 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.489 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org, Peter Korn Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: gk4@austin.ibm.com List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:50:15 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 16:55 -0300, Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Diógenes wrote: > There is anyone that is working on this type of support in metacity? > There is any documenation/discussion about magnification support in > the compositing window manager? Soren has stubbed in magnification into metacity. I was going to help, but I've been distracted. Also, I've recently published http://xmcm.sourceforge.net/ Best regards, -- George (gk4) From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Wed Jun 21 08:16:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2D63B0F8E for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03259-01 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D253B0F37 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so80985nfe for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.34.19 with SMTP id m19mr514346nfj; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:16:15 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" Sender: skating.tortoise@gmail.com To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7fa2bf341aa83a4f X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.369 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.231, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.369 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:16:19 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From aaronlev@moonset.net Thu Jun 22 09:13:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518E83B06D0 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29197-09 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E822A3B0570 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 22 Jun 2006 09:15:34 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,165,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226576714:sNHT26649024" Message-ID: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:43 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:13:53 -0000 [Trying to send one more time] Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. Make sense? - Aaron From William.Walker@Sun.COM Thu Jun 22 11:23:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DA6B3B0748 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05496-07 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBBD43B06B2 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-05.sun.com ([192.18.108.179]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5MFNqud011876 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1900E01PA33700@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1900AC0PFRVS32@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:50 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Aaron Leventhal Message-id: <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:23:55 -0000 If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to know where the user's current location is in the document, then not emitting this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend upon that as a solution. So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. Thanks! Will On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: > [Trying to send one more time] > > Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For > example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next > item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. > > I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. > Make sense? > > - Aaron > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 13:54:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA773B025B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26527-04 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B6E3B00AD for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 13:56:05 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,162,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226168781:sNHT29208052" Message-ID: <449987C9.3020805@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:17 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.392 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.207, BAYES_40=-0.185] X-Spam-Score: -1.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:07 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:54:22 -0000 Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. Make sense? - Aaron From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 23:30:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07D123B026B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24121-09 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C7B3B014B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 23:31:59 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,164,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226452079:sNHT19593734" Message-ID: <449A0EC2.9050209@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:10 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.542 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.057, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:30 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:30:16 -0000 Resending ... first attempt was apparently not approved by the list moderator: From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 23:30:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9443B02C3 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24103-10 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E213B014B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 23:32:33 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,164,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226452251:sNHT24016468" Message-ID: <449A0EE4.5020200@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:44 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.544 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:30 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:30:50 -0000 Resending ... first attempt was apparently not approved by the list moderator: > Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For > example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next > item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. > I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. > Make sense? - Aaron From aaronlev@moonset.net Fri Jun 23 09:03:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E9A3B07FD for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12466-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (unknown [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AEA53B075C for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2006 09:05:27 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,168,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="227155211:sNHT23078846" Message-ID: <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:33 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Willie Walker References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:03:51 -0000 Will, When the caret is invisible the location has to be considered the current focus. I certainly hope the AT is not depending just on the caret, but is following the focus as well. The point about clicking was that it is just one way this invisible caret is moved. About the only affect the invisible caret has is that the next find command will start finding text from there. - Aaron Willie Walker wrote: > If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to know > where the user's current location is in the document, then not emitting > this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an > option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend > upon that as a solution. > > So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. > > Thanks! > > Will > > On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: > >> [Trying to send one more time] >> >> Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For >> example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next >> item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. >> >> I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. >> Make sense? >> >> - Aaron >> _______________________________________________ >> Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list >> Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel >> > > > From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 10:54:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01C23B088E for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18836-03 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.188]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05CA3B0901 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so91380nfe for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.4.17 with SMTP id g17mr2514299nfi; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:54:14 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" Sender: skating.tortoise@gmail.com To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: f682d046db45120e X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.443 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.157, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.443 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:54:17 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 11:07:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C11ED3B08E6 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19490-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B34AB3B0459 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so93352nfe for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.4.17 with SMTP id g17mr2523841nfi; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:07:39 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:07:44 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From William.Walker@Sun.COM Fri Jun 23 20:07:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D103B0181 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12949-05 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA883B000A for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-06.sun.com ([192.18.108.180]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5O07h9W019563 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1C00C0177J9X00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1C00C5V8CUOG01@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:38 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Aaron Leventhal Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:07:46 -0000 > When the caret is invisible the location has to be considered the > current focus. I certainly hope the AT is not depending just on the > caret, but is following the focus as well. Some classes of AT's, such as a screen reader, care about not only what object has focus, but other information about that object as well. For example, which item(s) are selected in a list, what the value of a slider is, and where the caret is in a text object. Will > > The point about clicking was that it is just one way this invisible > caret is moved. About the only affect the invisible caret has is that > the next find command will start finding text from there. > > - Aaron > > > Willie Walker wrote: >> If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to >> know >> where the user's current location is in the document, then not >> emitting >> this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an >> option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend >> upon that as a solution. >> >> So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Will >> >> On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: >> >>> [Trying to send one more time] >>> >>> Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For >>> example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next >>> item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. >>> >>> I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. >>> Make sense? >>> >>> - Aaron >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list >>> Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org >>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel >>> >> >> >> From enrico@enricozini.org Sat Jun 24 07:13:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0053B02C1; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09160-07; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45FC13B006E; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5OBDf7s005708; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:13:41 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fu64i-0006Mo-Ds; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:13:16 +0100 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:13:16 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ibTvN161/egqYuK8" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Subject: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 11:13:47 -0000 --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I'm trying to look more into the problems I'm having with the speech support on Dapper (see my mail with subject "Fixing brittle speech support on Dapper" from June, 10th, which strangely isn't showing up in the archives at http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/200= 6-June/thread.html). I started reading through gnome-speech source code. I noticed that it runs festival as a server and talks to it. This makes us have a screen reader that talks CORBA to a server that talks TCP/IP to another server who then does the synthesis. That's too many passages in which something can go wrong. Instinctively, I'm considering rewriting the festival driver to using the C API rather than the festival server. The C API of Festival is just as simple as this: http://rafb.net/paste/results/I7trk068.html I'll look into it a bit more, writing some test code to talk to the CORBA festival driver as well as test code for the festival C/C++ API, so that I can gain familiarity with both things. Any reasons why this hasn't been done yet? In the meantime, however, before I hurt my brain too much with this, what's the overall situation? Is it worth the effort of fixing gnome-speech, or is the effort better spend on making something else work? I'm already quite frustrated of not getting any sort of answer on the list for this problem that is getting me totally stuck (and thank Luke Yelavich for mora support on IRC), and I don't know how I would cope if I spent time and effort on this just to hear as soon as I've finished that everyone's moving to speech-dispatcher or some other kind of a totally different technology. If it's not worth spending efforts on gnome-speech, please let me know what I can use to replace it, since it doesn't work for me. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEnR5M9LSwzHl+v6sRAvfXAJ96YsbY8wqms77UDb9GCEEkTBctXgCdHWgz kdeLwfWldHDFD8gNgZRK8LU= =0xvb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ibTvN161/egqYuK8-- From daniel.cotto@wanadoo.fr Sun Jun 11 06:04:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6394D3B0092 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02487-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.wanadoo.fr (smtp5.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01F9D3B03C2 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mlusine (ACaen-152-1-86-248.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr [86.205.244.248]) by mwinf0512.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id C52861C001EC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:03:11 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060611100311807.C52861C001EC@mwinf0512.orange.fr From: "Daniel COTTO" To: "GnomeAccessibilityDevel" Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:03:13 +0200 Message-ID: <000301c68d3e$407647a0$0b01a8c0@mlusine> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: AcaNPkAWdeh9Cp6AR+uGUqKI+xaBmg== X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.987 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, TW_GD=0.077] X-Spam-Score: 1.987 X-Spam-Level: * Subject: [g-a-devel] Problem using gnopernicus in the latest debian testing release X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:04:07 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 I=92am just upgrading my debian testing and concequently I got the = testing version of brltty (3.7.2-3) and gnopernicus (1.0.4). The gnome version = used is: 2.14. =20 My problem: * I log from gdm and my num-lock is on. * When I use the numpad key, Gnopernicus seem to run the appropriates commands but the corresponding numeric key is sent to the application, = and so, I write this numbers. =20 An illustration: I=92am in the gnome desktop: I hit the 7 key, an =E8 is echoed in the = inputbox. I do the same thing in mozilla, I can see the title bar. =20 Have you an idea ? =20 Thans =20 Daniel =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

I’am just upgrading my debian testing = and concequently I got the testing version of brltty (3.7.2-3) and gnopernicus (1.0.4). = The gnome version used is: 2.14.

 

My problem:

  • I log = from gdm and my num-lock is on.
  • When I = use the numpad key, Gnopernicus seem to run the appropriates commands but the = corresponding numeric key is sent to the application, and so, I write this = numbers.

 

An illustration:

I’am in the gnome desktop: I hit the 7 = key, an =E8 is echoed in the inputbox. I do the same thing in mozilla, I can see the = title bar.

 

Have you an idea = ?

 

Thans

 

Daniel

 

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0-- From mclasen@redhat.com Mon Jun 12 09:40:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C743B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04507-04 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFEE3B00A7 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CDGF34023554 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Received: from mail.boston.redhat.com (mail.boston.redhat.com [172.16.76.12]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CDGF1D021144 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Received: from golem.boston.redhat.com (golem.boston.redhat.com [172.16.80.24]) by mail.boston.redhat.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5CDGFlQ031838 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 From: Matthias Clasen To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Message-Id: <1150118175.15532.6.camel@golem.boston.redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.1 (2.7.1-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.541 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.541 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:40:15 -0000 Are we serious about a11y ? A few weeks ago, I asked about a11y gaps in new GTK+ feature, but I never heard anything back, except from our QA people, who try to use the a11y framework for automated testing. So I finally sat down last night and wrote minimal a11y support for GtkAssistant myself last night. I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. Obviously, that is not happening. I'm tempted to remove the icon view a11y code after 2.10, if nobody steps forward to fix it. Shipping broken code helps nobody... Matthias From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Tue Jun 20 09:58:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 459A33B01B0 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18759-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (imap.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 766BD3B01A8 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NHGK3P7S; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:58:28 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:57:21 -0300 Message-Id: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.784 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.400, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_24_48=0.88, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.784 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:58:27 -0000 Hi guys, I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our community members have in mind about this. If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do this work in older hardware. Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I will start to play. Thanks, --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Tue Jun 20 15:14:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3613B0307 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07651-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F9193B01AB for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.39.120]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5KJER4K002898 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-10.sun.com by d1-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1600601API4100@d1-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.20.7] by d1-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J16001HLAS3X9B0@d1-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:19 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carlos_Eduardo_Rodrigues_Di=F3genes?= Message-id: <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:14:30 -0000 Hi Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues, I believe the cost of new video cards is coming down so rapidly that the best place for most of our magnification investment is around COMPOSITE. Every customer I come in contact with around UNIX accessibility compares what we are doing to the state of the art in Windows commercial software. And users have come to expect this level of quality, and depend upon the efficiency and productivity that is affords them (and are NOT willing to give that up). I agree that to make good use of COMPOSITE, the magnifier must know about most window manager tasks. I think the best way to do this is to build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window manager(s) of our desktop(s). I don't see a lot of value to keeping the magnifier separate from the window manager. All that said, users who don't have the resources for modern graphics cards are an important group, and your idea of an OverlayWindow is an interesting one. I'm curious to see where that investigation goes! Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > Hi guys, > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > community members have in mind about this. > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > this work in older hardware. > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > will start to play. > > Thanks, > From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Tue Jun 20 15:57:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4323B0155 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10359-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (webmail.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A8533B028F for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NHGK3YKV; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:57:10 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: Peter Korn In-Reply-To: <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:55:15 -0300 Message-Id: <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.78 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.396, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_24_48=0.88, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.78 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:57:58 -0000 Hi Peter, On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 12:14 -0700, Peter Korn wrote: > Hi Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues, >=20 > I believe the cost of new video cards is coming down so rapidly that the=20 > best place for most of our magnification investment is around=20 > COMPOSITE. Every customer I come in contact with around UNIX=20 > accessibility compares what we are doing to the state of the art in=20 > Windows commercial software. And users have come to expect this level=20 > of quality, and depend upon the efficiency and productivity that is=20 > affords them (and are NOT willing to give that up). >=20 > I agree that to make good use of COMPOSITE, the magnifier must know=20 > about most window manager tasks. I think the best way to do this is to=20 > build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window=20 > manager(s) of our desktop(s). I don't see a lot of value to keeping the=20 > magnifier separate from the window manager. I think that compiz make something like this, isn't is? There is anyone that is working on this type of support in metacity? There is any documenation/discussion about magnification support in the compositing window manager? I have doubt if build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window manager is really the rigth place. I think that the best, from this scenario, is some sort of cooperation, but how? I think that looking inside compiz could give me some answears. I don't like the idea to merge these two kinds of applications, I think that if we could maintaim they modular, let's maintaim, for me this is the greatest value in keeping the magnifier separate from the window manager. >=20 > All that said, users who don't have the resources for modern graphics=20 > cards are an important group, and your idea of an OverlayWindow is an=20 > interesting one. I'm curious to see where that investigation goes! >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Peter Korn > Accessibility Architect, > Sun Microsystems, Inc. >=20 > > Hi guys, > > > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > community members have in mind about this. > > > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like cod= e > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server ca= n > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have = a > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > this work in older hardware. > > > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents o= f > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reason= s > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > will start to play. > > > > Thanks, > > =20 >=20 --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From gk4@austin.ibm.com Tue Jun 20 16:50:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B2803B082C for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13556-05 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e5.ny.us.ibm.com (e5.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.145]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3983B04FC for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e5.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5KKo21n023832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:03 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.6/NCO/VER7.0) with ESMTP id k5KKo2Qp274726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:02 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k5KKo1uF012475 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:01 -0400 Received: from gk4.austin.ibm.com (gk4.austin.ibm.com [9.53.33.16]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5KKo10H012423; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:01 -0400 From: George Kraft To: "Carlos Eduardo R." =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= In-Reply-To: <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Organization: IBM Corp Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:47:12 -0500 Message-Id: <1150836432.10012.252.camel@gk4.austin.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.489 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.489 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org, Peter Korn Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: gk4@austin.ibm.com List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:50:15 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 16:55 -0300, Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Diógenes wrote: > There is anyone that is working on this type of support in metacity? > There is any documenation/discussion about magnification support in > the compositing window manager? Soren has stubbed in magnification into metacity. I was going to help, but I've been distracted. Also, I've recently published http://xmcm.sourceforge.net/ Best regards, -- George (gk4) From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Wed Jun 21 08:16:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2D63B0F8E for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03259-01 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D253B0F37 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so80985nfe for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.34.19 with SMTP id m19mr514346nfj; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:16:15 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" Sender: skating.tortoise@gmail.com To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7fa2bf341aa83a4f X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.369 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.231, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.369 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:16:19 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From aaronlev@moonset.net Thu Jun 22 09:13:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518E83B06D0 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29197-09 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E822A3B0570 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 22 Jun 2006 09:15:34 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,165,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226576714:sNHT26649024" Message-ID: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:43 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:13:53 -0000 [Trying to send one more time] Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. Make sense? - Aaron From William.Walker@Sun.COM Thu Jun 22 11:23:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DA6B3B0748 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05496-07 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBBD43B06B2 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-05.sun.com ([192.18.108.179]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5MFNqud011876 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1900E01PA33700@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1900AC0PFRVS32@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:50 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Aaron Leventhal Message-id: <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:23:55 -0000 If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to know where the user's current location is in the document, then not emitting this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend upon that as a solution. So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. Thanks! Will On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: > [Trying to send one more time] > > Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For > example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next > item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. > > I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. > Make sense? > > - Aaron > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 13:54:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA773B025B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26527-04 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B6E3B00AD for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 13:56:05 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,162,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226168781:sNHT29208052" Message-ID: <449987C9.3020805@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:17 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.392 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.207, BAYES_40=-0.185] X-Spam-Score: -1.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:07 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:54:22 -0000 Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. Make sense? - Aaron From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 23:30:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07D123B026B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24121-09 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C7B3B014B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 23:31:59 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,164,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226452079:sNHT19593734" Message-ID: <449A0EC2.9050209@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:10 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.542 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.057, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:30 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:30:16 -0000 Resending ... first attempt was apparently not approved by the list moderator: From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 23:30:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9443B02C3 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24103-10 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E213B014B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 23:32:33 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,164,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226452251:sNHT24016468" Message-ID: <449A0EE4.5020200@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:44 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.544 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:30 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:30:50 -0000 Resending ... first attempt was apparently not approved by the list moderator: > Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For > example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next > item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. > I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. > Make sense? - Aaron From aaronlev@moonset.net Fri Jun 23 09:03:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E9A3B07FD for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12466-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (unknown [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AEA53B075C for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2006 09:05:27 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,168,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="227155211:sNHT23078846" Message-ID: <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:33 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Willie Walker References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:03:51 -0000 Will, When the caret is invisible the location has to be considered the current focus. I certainly hope the AT is not depending just on the caret, but is following the focus as well. The point about clicking was that it is just one way this invisible caret is moved. About the only affect the invisible caret has is that the next find command will start finding text from there. - Aaron Willie Walker wrote: > If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to know > where the user's current location is in the document, then not emitting > this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an > option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend > upon that as a solution. > > So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. > > Thanks! > > Will > > On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: > >> [Trying to send one more time] >> >> Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For >> example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next >> item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. >> >> I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. >> Make sense? >> >> - Aaron >> _______________________________________________ >> Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list >> Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel >> > > > From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 10:54:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01C23B088E for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18836-03 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.188]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05CA3B0901 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so91380nfe for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.4.17 with SMTP id g17mr2514299nfi; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:54:14 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" Sender: skating.tortoise@gmail.com To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: f682d046db45120e X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.443 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.157, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.443 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:54:17 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 11:07:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C11ED3B08E6 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19490-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B34AB3B0459 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so93352nfe for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.4.17 with SMTP id g17mr2523841nfi; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:07:39 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:07:44 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From William.Walker@Sun.COM Fri Jun 23 20:07:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D103B0181 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12949-05 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA883B000A for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-06.sun.com ([192.18.108.180]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5O07h9W019563 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1C00C0177J9X00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1C00C5V8CUOG01@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:38 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Aaron Leventhal Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:07:46 -0000 > When the caret is invisible the location has to be considered the > current focus. I certainly hope the AT is not depending just on the > caret, but is following the focus as well. Some classes of AT's, such as a screen reader, care about not only what object has focus, but other information about that object as well. For example, which item(s) are selected in a list, what the value of a slider is, and where the caret is in a text object. Will > > The point about clicking was that it is just one way this invisible > caret is moved. About the only affect the invisible caret has is that > the next find command will start finding text from there. > > - Aaron > > > Willie Walker wrote: >> If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to >> know >> where the user's current location is in the document, then not >> emitting >> this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an >> option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend >> upon that as a solution. >> >> So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Will >> >> On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: >> >>> [Trying to send one more time] >>> >>> Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For >>> example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next >>> item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. >>> >>> I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. >>> Make sense? >>> >>> - Aaron >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list >>> Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org >>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel >>> >> >> >> From enrico@enricozini.org Sat Jun 24 07:13:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0053B02C1; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09160-07; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45FC13B006E; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5OBDf7s005708; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:13:41 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fu64i-0006Mo-Ds; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:13:16 +0100 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:13:16 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ibTvN161/egqYuK8" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Subject: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 11:13:47 -0000 --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I'm trying to look more into the problems I'm having with the speech support on Dapper (see my mail with subject "Fixing brittle speech support on Dapper" from June, 10th, which strangely isn't showing up in the archives at http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/200= 6-June/thread.html). I started reading through gnome-speech source code. I noticed that it runs festival as a server and talks to it. This makes us have a screen reader that talks CORBA to a server that talks TCP/IP to another server who then does the synthesis. That's too many passages in which something can go wrong. Instinctively, I'm considering rewriting the festival driver to using the C API rather than the festival server. The C API of Festival is just as simple as this: http://rafb.net/paste/results/I7trk068.html I'll look into it a bit more, writing some test code to talk to the CORBA festival driver as well as test code for the festival C/C++ API, so that I can gain familiarity with both things. Any reasons why this hasn't been done yet? In the meantime, however, before I hurt my brain too much with this, what's the overall situation? Is it worth the effort of fixing gnome-speech, or is the effort better spend on making something else work? I'm already quite frustrated of not getting any sort of answer on the list for this problem that is getting me totally stuck (and thank Luke Yelavich for mora support on IRC), and I don't know how I would cope if I spent time and effort on this just to hear as soon as I've finished that everyone's moving to speech-dispatcher or some other kind of a totally different technology. If it's not worth spending efforts on gnome-speech, please let me know what I can use to replace it, since it doesn't work for me. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEnR5M9LSwzHl+v6sRAvfXAJ96YsbY8wqms77UDb9GCEEkTBctXgCdHWgz kdeLwfWldHDFD8gNgZRK8LU= =0xvb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ibTvN161/egqYuK8-- From cerha@brailcom.org Mon Jun 26 05:14:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96163B0124 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04277-06 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gate.brailcom.cz (158-84-244-84.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz [84.244.84.158]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B750E3B0174 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11545 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2006 10:52:49 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.15.2?) (192.168.15.2) by ns.brailcom.xx with SMTP; 26 Jun 2006 10:52:49 +0200 Message-ID: <449FA559.1050508@brailcom.org> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:14:01 +0200 From: Tomas Cerha Organization: Brailcom, o.p.s. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org References: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> In-Reply-To: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.463 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.858, BAYES_20=-0.74, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.463 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:14:16 -0000 Enrico Zini wrote: > Hello, > In the meantime, however, before I hurt my brain too much with this, > what's the overall situation? Is it worth the effort of fixing > gnome-speech, or is the effort better spend on making something else > work? Hi Enrico, I'm currently working on Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca. This bypasses the Gnome Speech layer completely. Since Speech Dispatcher offers several speech synthesizers not supported by Gnome Speech, this may be essential for some people and the Orca -> Gnome Speech -> Speech Dispatcher -> synthesizer aproach has inherent problems. This might solve your problem too. Please, see also the common "TTS API" draft at http://www.freebsoft.org/tts-api. This is a common effort of Free Desktop and FSG. Best regards, Tomas -- Brailcom, o.p.s. http://www.brailcom.org Free(b)soft project http://www.freebsoft.org Eurochance project http://eurochance.brailcom.org From enrico@enricozini.org Mon Jun 26 08:44:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCDA03B0387; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18426-01; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FC23B02F7; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5QCihKc011937; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:44:43 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FuqNo-0003eT-1a; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:40:04 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:40:03 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Tomas Cerha Message-ID: <20060626124003.GA13572@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: Tomas Cerha , gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org References: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> <449FA559.1050508@brailcom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <449FA559.1050508@brailcom.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:44:48 -0000 --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 11:14:01AM +0200, Tomas Cerha wrote: > I'm currently working on Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca. This > bypasses the Gnome Speech layer completely. Since Speech Dispatcher > offers several speech synthesizers not supported by Gnome Speech, this > may be essential for some people and the Orca -> Gnome Speech -> Speech > Dispatcher -> synthesizer aproach has inherent problems. This might > solve your problem too. >=20 > Please, see also the common "TTS API" draft at > http://www.freebsoft.org/tts-api. This is a common effort of Free > Desktop and FSG. Cool. Is there a way I can use all of this right now on Dapper? Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEn9Wj9LSwzHl+v6sRAofUAJ9rGqFPNo5F+9EKH1UOKSt32EG0nwCfZZUp 64toiGSrN/swh06OHchQyCY= =hVic -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 10:49:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71B7A3B0124 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:49:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25701-04 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367823B017B for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QEmdiH024863 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:48:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H008012BMA0@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:48:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H008072H345@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:48:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:49:51 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Message-id: <1151333390.7079.11.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:49:02 -0000 Hi Chris: The answer is, "don't implement sticky keys in your keyboard". You should be using the system-wide StickyKeys settings and feature instead (as GOK does). Interfering with the normal operation of the system wide setting (i.e clashing with it as your app does), is itself an accessibility violation. (There are several gconf keys you can use to turn sticky keys on and off - see those under /desktop/gnome/accessibility/keyboard) Bill > I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is > stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way > to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? > > thanks > > > -- > Chris Jones From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 11:35:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AC673B0455 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29080-01 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4549A3B048F for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QFZ73i010232 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:35:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H00E014M3JB@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:35:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H008ZS4MI45@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:35:06 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:36:18 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Message-id: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:35:19 -0000 > Hi guys, > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > community members have in mind about this. Hi Carlos: I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that was available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it didn't' look like a lot of code. I believe that basically we'd just need to use Composite's capability to prune the window tree, separate our magnifier window out, and render only that window to the screen after compositing directly into it. Why is it not that straightforward? I don't understand the problem you seem concerned about... regards, Bill > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > this work in older hardware. > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > will start to play. > > Thanks, From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 11:44:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C4D53B04D3 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29613-10 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6AE53B017D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QFiq8T016353 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:44:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H00I01507Z9@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:44:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H0087R52S45@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:44:52 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:46:03 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: mclasen@redhat.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-id: <1151336763.7079.60.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.578 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.020, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.578 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:44:55 -0000 Hi Matthias: I've been away for a number of weeks as you may know, and have just re-joined this list. > Are we serious about a11y ? Well, are we? You seem to imply here that it's something "those a11y folks" are supposed to do. I don't think it can work that way; if 'we' (i.e. Gnome/Free-Software developers) want accessibility to work, then we all need to share the labor, since it's a big task. > A few weeks ago, I asked about a11y gaps in new GTK+ feature, > but I never heard anything back, except from our QA people, who > try to use the a11y framework for automated testing. > > So I finally sat down last night and wrote minimal a11y > support for GtkAssistant myself last night. Great, that's fantastic! Thanks for doing what I suggest above, i.e. helping make new code accessible as part of the ordinary process of Gnome/GTK+ development. > I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been > broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ > under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. I didn't know there was any a11y code in gtk+ proper yet, usually it's all in gail. Could you explain? > Obviously, that is not happening. Obviously? I don't know about this. > I'm tempted to remove the > icon view a11y code after 2.10, if nobody steps forward to > fix it. Shipping broken code helps nobody... Well, are there bugs against it? Threatening to pull code doesn't help. I'd also like to note that there seemed to be consensus about a year ago that gail should be folded into gtk+ instead of kept as a separate library, because of various maintenance issues. I think that's a great idea. Note that we do desperately need help to maintain gail, since currently the co-maintainer is not really available to work on it and I am spending virtually all of my time on other high-priority accessibility issues. So please help us with patches and bugfixes. Bill > Matthias > From enrico@enricozini.org Mon Jun 26 12:21:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2663B0436 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32045-03 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8A23B03C6 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5QGLRcQ002275 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:21:27 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Futns-0002F5-7C for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:19:12 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:19:12 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060626161912.GA7775@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.459 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.005, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.459 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-speech festival driver problems explained X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:21:31 -0000 --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (sort of) Hi. After studying the (uncommented) festival driver source code, I got to some conclusions: - the Italian speech synthesis doesn't like speaking nothingness: $ festival Festival Speech Synthesis System 1.4.3:release Jan 2003 Copyright (C) University of Edinburgh, 1996-2003. All rights reserved. For details type `(festival_warranty)' festival> (SayText "") # festival> (SayText " ") # festival> (voice_lp_diphone) lp_diphone festival> (SayText " ") SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val festival> (SayText "") SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val festival> - the festival driver sends LOTS of nothingness: festivalsynthesisdriver.c:945: festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \""); festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "\")\r\n"); festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \"\")\r\n"); basically, after every string that is sent, and empty string is sent. Why? No idea. A comment explaining why would really have helped. - festival_synthesis_driver_is_speaking is broken: when festival has only one wave in the audio spooler, it says that the queue is empty. I enabled debugging info in the driver, and every single time it queried the audio queue, it's always been reported empty, even if it was actually speaking. - I tried simplifying the interaction a bit: I got rid of all the (useless) audio queue enquiries and I simplified the way text is sent, sending all in a single bunch: escaped_string =3D g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1+20); strcpy(escaped_string, "(SayText \""); ptr1 =3D text; ptr2 =3D escaped_string + strlen(escaped_string); while (ptr1 && *ptr1) { if (*ptr1 =3D=3D '\"' || *ptr1 =3D=3D '\\') *ptr2++ =3D '\\'; *ptr2++ =3D *ptr1++; } *ptr2++ =3D '"'; *ptr2++ =3D ')'; *ptr2++ =3D '\r'; *ptr2++ =3D '\n'; *ptr2 =3D 0; [...] festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); oh, and I also escaped \ characters, which weren't escaped before (security risk? I didn't investigate).=20 The result was that things were a little bit more stable, but not much. Sound would stop (reliably reproducible by hitting ALT+F1 to go to the panel menu), but switching window with ALT+Tab would usually bring it back. However, sometimes gnopernicus wouldn't read its own menu entries unless one plays with ALT+Tab a bit more. So, it seems that window switching has a therapeutic influence here. When sound stops, what happens is that gnopernicus doesn't send data to the speech driver at all. I suspect that what happens is that the driver status reporting is confusing gnopernicus somehow. I tried to rewrite the festival driver using the festival C++ API instead of the pipeline to a festival server, but got stuck with the audio output: the festival audio scheduler has unreliable status report, and I'd have to implement a queryable and interruptible audio scheduler, which is something I'd spend days doing because I'm not familiar with glib even loops and esd/gstreamer programming. So, problems identified so far: - italian voices hate empty/blank strings - the driver sends lots of empty strings. The errors should be ignored by the server, though. - is_speaking report is unreliable - gnopernicus tends to stop sending data to the festival driver, possibly because of getting confused by the driver status reports. Switching windows seems to shake gnopernicus back to normal. - the way SayText strings are constructed should be improved, see the code snipped above. I'm sorry I didn't pinpoint the problems better, but the festival driver's code is full of enqueuing callbacks into lists and glib event queues, and is hard to follow for me. I would have liked to write the author and work on it together, but it's basically anonymous (it just says "Sun Microsystem"). I tried with orca as well, which seems to be more reliable in sending data to the speech driver, until at some point it caused all my desktop to hung up to the point of needing a CTRL+ALT+Backspace to restart X. I'll now try to work out how to make the festival voices work fine with empty/blank strings. I would be happy if someone can tell me what door to knock regarding the gnome-speech festival driver internals. =20 Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEoAj/9LSwzHl+v6sRAt4uAJ9kfJKR5qeaLfvDLuRLUwoR5mG9fACdEBVL TbENT/HLSKuN2IJDVy1HJhc= =Hi5Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 12:50:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D91D83B009A for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01334-03 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AF063B035F for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QGoQ40028657 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H00L017XYOP@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:50:26 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H00G1I841KL@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:50:26 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:51:37 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060626161912.GA7775@viaza> To: Enrico Zini Message-id: <1151340697.7079.69.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060626161912.GA7775@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_WC=0.077, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-speech festival driver problems explained X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:50:38 -0000 Hi Enrico: I am glad you are getting somewhere with your investigations. Thanks for the detective work. The copyright statement is not usually a helpful place to look if you are asking yourself, "who wrote this"? You might look at viewcvs (cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-speech), you can even get line-by-line attribution on exactly who committed a piece of code to CVS. Also the ChangeLog in the main gnome-speech directory may help you. Will Walker is currently maintaining gnome-speech, though he did not write the festival driver. I believe Remus Draica of BAUM committed a lot of the code which handles callbacks and "completion" notifications. Try rd at baum dot ro. I am pretty sure one reason we didn't use the C API for festival is difficulty with the audio scheduler. Also, note that festival has changed a bit since we first wrote the driver, so possibly some things have changed/broken in the interaction with recent festival versions. It should be easy to strip the "empty" or whitespace strings from the driver, and this seems like a harmless thing to do at least. If you prepare a patch that does this I'd be happy to commit it for you. If orca is working better, you might stick with that, and you may be able to get some assistance from Will Walker (william dot walker at sun dot com). best regards, Bill On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 17:19, Enrico Zini wrote: > (sort of) > > Hi. > > After studying the (uncommented) festival driver source code, I got to > some conclusions: > > - the Italian speech synthesis doesn't like speaking nothingness: > > $ festival > Festival Speech Synthesis System 1.4.3:release Jan 2003 > Copyright (C) University of Edinburgh, 1996-2003. All rights reserved. > For details type `(festival_warranty)' > festival> (SayText "") > # > festival> (SayText " ") > # > festival> (voice_lp_diphone) > lp_diphone > festival> (SayText " ") > SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val > festival> (SayText "") > SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val > festival> > > - the festival driver sends LOTS of nothingness: > > festivalsynthesisdriver.c:945: > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \""); > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "\")\r\n"); > > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \"\")\r\n"); > > basically, after every string that is sent, and empty string is sent. > Why? No idea. A comment explaining why would really have helped. > > - festival_synthesis_driver_is_speaking is broken: when festival has > only one wave in the audio spooler, it says that the queue is empty. > I enabled debugging info in the driver, and every single time it > queried the audio queue, it's always been reported empty, even if it > was actually speaking. > > - I tried simplifying the interaction a bit: I got rid of all the > (useless) audio queue enquiries and I simplified the way text is > sent, sending all in a single bunch: > > escaped_string = g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1+20); > strcpy(escaped_string, "(SayText \""); > ptr1 = text; > ptr2 = escaped_string + strlen(escaped_string); > while (ptr1 && *ptr1) > { > if (*ptr1 == '\"' || *ptr1 == '\\') > *ptr2++ = '\\'; > *ptr2++ = *ptr1++; > } > *ptr2++ = '"'; > *ptr2++ = ')'; > *ptr2++ = '\r'; > *ptr2++ = '\n'; > *ptr2 = 0; > [...] > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); > > oh, and I also escaped \ characters, which weren't escaped before > (security risk? I didn't investigate). > > The result was that things were a little bit more stable, but not much. > Sound would stop (reliably reproducible by hitting ALT+F1 to go to the > panel menu), but switching window with ALT+Tab would usually bring it > back. However, sometimes gnopernicus wouldn't read its own menu entries > unless one plays with ALT+Tab a bit more. So, it seems that window > switching has a therapeutic influence here. > > When sound stops, what happens is that gnopernicus doesn't send data to > the speech driver at all. I suspect that what happens is that the > driver status reporting is confusing gnopernicus somehow. > > I tried to rewrite the festival driver using the festival C++ API > instead of the pipeline to a festival server, but got stuck with the > audio output: the festival audio scheduler has unreliable status report, > and I'd have to implement a queryable and interruptible audio scheduler, > which is something I'd spend days doing because I'm not familiar with > glib even loops and esd/gstreamer programming. > > So, problems identified so far: > > - italian voices hate empty/blank strings > - the driver sends lots of empty strings. The errors should be ignored > by the server, though. > - is_speaking report is unreliable > - gnopernicus tends to stop sending data to the festival driver, > possibly because of getting confused by the driver status reports. > Switching windows seems to shake gnopernicus back to normal. > - the way SayText strings are constructed should be improved, see the > code snipped above. > > I'm sorry I didn't pinpoint the problems better, but the festival > driver's code is full of enqueuing callbacks into lists and glib event > queues, and is hard to follow for me. I would have liked to write the > author and work on it together, but it's basically anonymous (it just > says "Sun Microsystem"). > > I tried with orca as well, which seems to be more reliable in sending > data to the speech driver, until at some point it caused all my desktop > to hung up to the point of needing a CTRL+ALT+Backspace to restart X. > > I'll now try to work out how to make the festival voices work fine with > empty/blank strings. I would be happy if someone can tell me what door > to knock regarding the gnome-speech festival driver internals. > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From mclasen@redhat.com Mon Jun 26 13:00:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A31C3B017D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01856-01 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 886EE3B042D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5QH0JQG020601; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:19 -0400 Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (lacrosse.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.154]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5QH0E5S015427; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:14 -0400 Received: from [172.16.83.129] (vpn83-129.boston.redhat.com [172.16.83.129]) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k5QH0DJb024353; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:14 -0400 From: Matthias Clasen To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151336763.7079.60.camel@linux.site> References: <1151336763.7079.60.camel@linux.site> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:02:29 -0400 Message-Id: <1151341349.3063.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.3 (2.7.3-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.547 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.547 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:00:23 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 16:46 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been > > broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ > > under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. > > I didn't know there was any a11y code in gtk+ proper yet, > usually it's all in gail. Could you explain? The icon view a11y code was already inside GTK+, since we didn't want to expose all the innards that would be required to do the a11y implementation in gail. The original implemenation was done by Padraig, but he is doing other things now, right ? The code needs to be updated to work with the cell renderer based approach that is used in GTK+ >= 2.8. I started to look into that myself, but didn't get very far... > > Obviously, that is not happening. > > Obviously? I don't know about this. > Sorry I the sound of my message was too harsh; I still care about accessibility, obviously :-) Matthias From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Mon Jun 26 13:31:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF943B046C for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03384-09 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:31:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (webmail.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 479AF3B042D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:31:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NP315MWW; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:34:13 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:33:38 -0300 Message-Id: <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.693 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.476, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=1.247, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.693 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:31:39 -0000 Hi Bill, On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 16:36 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > Hi guys, > >=20 > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > community members have in mind about this. >=20 > Hi Carlos: >=20 > I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features= =20 > just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), > it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic=20 > to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that > was available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it=20 > didn't' look like a lot of code. We must emulate some of the window-manager-like features to know about what is happening with the windows, so we can a fine control what must be composed, because without a good use of what we must compose we will push down perfomance. I don't think that it's a premature optimization, because I don't think in it like the right solution. We don't need do duplicate efforts. The xserver can do this work for us so more easy. Moreover, putting this in the xserver we will being creating the mechanisms to improve the gnome-mag, or anyother magnifier, API a lot and with a lot of flexibility and less code. How Composite does the things is more suitable to applications that want to add a eye-kind desktop to the user and low-vision users don't like this, for they the desktop must be the as simple as possible, without effects. They prefer static things. >=20 > I believe that basically we'd just need to use Composite's capability > to prune the window tree, separate our magnifier window out, and=20 > render only that window to the screen after compositing directly > into it. =20 It will so much easy if we can ask a piece of the window, manipulate it like we want (using xrender or any other mechanism/algorithm) and then draw in the magnifier window (the only window that goes to screen memory). The changes to gnome-mag will be minors. >=20 > Why is it not that straightforward? I don't understand the problem=20 > you seem concerned about... Because we must implement a composite manager or embbed magnifier logic in window-managers. The first will only have good performance in good computers with good video cards. This is not a big problem, since the prices are lowering more and more, but we still with a glue code in the application that can be avoided. The later sounds very terrible to me, since magnifiers and window-managers are to distinct things. I, like a magnifier developer don't want to worry in my code with some question related about window-manager, and I think that the vice-versa is true. Moreover, a window-manager is a policy while, for me and I think to you too, the magnifier service is a mechanism. >=20 > regards, >=20 > Bill >=20 > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like cod= e > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server ca= n > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have = a > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > this work in older hardware. > >=20 > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents o= f > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > >=20 > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reason= s > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > will start to play. > >=20 > > Thanks, >=20 --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Tue Jun 27 08:22:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B33353B0072 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:22:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28053-08 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948CC3B0012 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5RBi0V7019064 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 05:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1I00601OHMXN@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:43:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from dhcp-226-143.Ireland.Sun.COM (dhcp-226-143.Ireland.Sun.COM [129.156.226.143]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1I00F8WOLB70@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:43:59 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:45:11 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> To: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?UTF-8?Q?Di=C3=B3genes?= Message-id: <1151408711.7842.10.camel@dhcp-226-143.ireland.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.507 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.091, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.507 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:22:35 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 18:33, Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Diógenes wrote: > Hi Bill, > > On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 16:36 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > > community members have in mind about this. > > > > Hi Carlos: > > > > I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features > > just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), > > it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic > > to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that > > was available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it > > didn't' look like a lot of code. > > We must emulate some of the window-manager-like features to know about > what is happening with the windows, so we can a fine control what must > be composed, because without a good use of what we must compose we will > push down perfomance. I don't think I agree with your assessment. Perhaps you could be more explicit? Why would we need to do more clipping/checking that the existing compositing manager? At most, we would want to keep track of the current magnified viewport. > I don't think that it's a premature optimization, > because I don't think in it like the right solution. We don't need do > duplicate efforts. The xserver can do this work for us so more easy. I don't recommend this - we had extensive discussions with the XServer development community about magnification needs, and Composite is what we got. Writing a new Xserver extension, and getting it accepted, which is what you are proposing, doesn't seem like a reasonable thing to do until we first try to make full use of the new XServer extension that was already written in part to try and solve our magnification issues. regards, Bill > Moreover, putting this in the xserver we will being creating the > mechanisms to improve the gnome-mag, or anyother magnifier, API a lot > and with a lot of flexibility and less code. > > How Composite does the things is more suitable to applications that want > to add a eye-kind desktop to the user and low-vision users don't like > this, for they the desktop must be the as simple as possible, without > effects. They prefer static things. > > > > > I believe that basically we'd just need to use Composite's capability > > to prune the window tree, separate our magnifier window out, and > > render only that window to the screen after compositing directly > > into it. > > It will so much easy if we can ask a piece of the window, manipulate it > like we want (using xrender or any other mechanism/algorithm) and then > draw in the magnifier window (the only window that goes to screen > memory). The changes to gnome-mag will be minors. > > > > > Why is it not that straightforward? I don't understand the problem > > you seem concerned about... > > Because we must implement a composite manager or embbed magnifier logic > in window-managers. The first will only have good performance in good > computers with good video cards. This is not a big problem, since the > prices are lowering more and more, but we still with a glue code in the > application that can be avoided. The later sounds very terrible to me, > since magnifiers and window-managers are to distinct things. I, like a > magnifier developer don't want to worry in my code with some question > related about window-manager, and I think that the vice-versa is true. > Moreover, a window-manager is a policy while, for me and I think to you > too, the magnifier service is a mechanism. > > > > > regards, > > > > Bill > > > > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > > this work in older hardware. > > > > > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > > > > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > > will start to play. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > -- > Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Diógenes > Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From gk4@austin.ibm.com Tue Jun 27 14:39:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36343B0110 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12817-01 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e3.ny.us.ibm.com (e3.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.143]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4BE43B00A6 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5RIbt75014141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:55 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.6/NCO/VER7.0) with ESMTP id k5RIbs2s242296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:54 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k5RIbsX3011385 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:54 -0400 Received: from gk4.austin.ibm.com (gk4.austin.ibm.com [9.53.33.16]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5RIbsAg011344; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:54 -0400 From: George Kraft To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151408711.7842.10.camel@dhcp-226-143.ireland.sun.com> References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <1151408711.7842.10.camel@dhcp-226-143.ireland.sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: IBM Corp Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:34:50 -0500 Message-Id: <1151433290.6050.21.camel@gk4.austin.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.491 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.491 X-Spam-Level: Cc: xorg@lists.freedesktop.org, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: gk4@austin.ibm.com List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:39:18 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 12:45 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features > just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), > it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic > to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that > as available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it > didn't' look like a lot of code. Carlos, Here is an opportunity to enhance magnification to the existing composite client code. :-) http://lwn.net/Articles/181272/ http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/libcm/src/magnifier.c?rev=1.5&view=log http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-devel-list/2006-April/msg00971.html $ USE_MAGNIFIER=1 metacity --replace & -- George (gk4) From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Tue Jun 27 17:15:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79D343B00CC for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17346-08 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059743B006C for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-06.sun.com ([192.18.39.116]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5RLFK0x017095 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-06.sun.com by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1J00601ENSVJ00@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.23.60] by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1J003FUF1I4M80@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com>; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:16 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carlos_Eduardo_Rodrigues_Di=F3genes?= Message-id: <44A19FE4.3020507@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.544 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Bill Haneman , gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 21:15:58 -0000 Hi Carlos, Excerpting from the end of your e-mail: > Because we must implement a composite manager or embbed magnifier logic > in window-managers. The first will only have good performance in good > computers with good video cards. This is not a big problem, since the > prices are lowering more and more, but we still with a glue code in the > application that can be avoided. The later sounds very terrible to me, > since magnifiers and window-managers are to distinct things. I, like a > magnifier developer don't want to worry in my code with some question > related about window-manager, and I think that the vice-versa is true. > Moreover, a window-manager is a policy while, for me and I think to you > too, the magnifier service is a mechanism. > Magnifiers and Window Managers have been distinct things up until now. But I am not convinced that is necessarily a good thing. I believe the fundamental purpose of magnification software is to enable someone with any of a variety of visual impairments to be able to: a. see what is on the screen b. track specific regions on the screen - either mouse interactions, text caret, keyboard focus, OR other things that may be updating (e.g. multiple "zoom regions", tracking changes to a formula bar in a spreadsheet) c. find things that they want to interact with d. otherwise use the desktop & computer to accomplish the same sorts of things as everyone else Looking at these tasks, basic magnification can accomplish (a). Tracking things (for task (b)) needs the magnifier to be driven by things like at-spi, and a lot of logic to do this is in Gnopernicus & Orca (with more coming over time). But when it comes to (c), there are things that would be nice to do that we haven't really gotten to yet, on any platform. Products like ZoomText and inLARGE had modes to toggle back and forth between unmagnified & magnified views (with a heavy 'border lens' showing where the user was relative to the entire desktop). Gnopernicus has a 'proportional' mode that uses the mouse location on the magnified view to indicate where the mouse is on the entire desktop. But these are really somewhat limited tools. However, some of the things that COMPOSITE gives us, and some of the features in the new window managers, suggest some very interesting new opportunities for helping users find things. For example, why not have the magnifier zoom a specific window to the entire screen? Or zoom a pair of windows to sharing the entire magnified screen? Or overlay some notification information to a portion of an otherwise magnified screen? Such tasks are essentially "window manager" tasks, yet when combined with magnification they can offer some interesting potential improvements for efficiency and productivity for users with vision impairments - rather than relying on a magnifier to do the magnification, and a window manager to hopefully do some of these sorts of things, and try to get the magnifier to try to optimize the end-user result. Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > >> regards, >> >> Bill >> >> >>> If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code >>> in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must >>> track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can >>> generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be >>> showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to >>> maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a >>> good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with >>> composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a >>> big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do >>> this work in older hardware. >>> >>> Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit >>> the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, >>> something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of >>> all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root >>> window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. >>> >>> I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons >>> to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try >>> this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I >>> will start to play. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 09:59:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74633B017A; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14201-04; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (agnus.ngi.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA8D3B01E2; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SDwIwD028281; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:58:18 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvaXC-000293-Dz; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:56:50 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:56:50 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060628135650.GA6628@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.447 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.447 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Probably found the problem with the Italian synthesis X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:59:16 -0000 --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, might be around here: $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language english $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language finnish SIOD ERROR: damaged env : # $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language spanish $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language italian LTS_Ruleset italian_downcase: no rule matches: LTS_Ruleset: # P e r *here* =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD # $ =2E..especially when this comes out of the log of a crashed orca session: # grep SPEECH debug.out |tail SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Grafica menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Up' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Giochi menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Up' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Audio & Video menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Up' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Accessori menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Right' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Alacarte - Editor di men=C3=B9' I'll now try to work on it a bit. In the meantime, I patched audsp in festival to also report the currently playing sample in the playing list. This makes two useful patches that I should start to extract properly and send around, but my main priority is still having a long-lasting Italian speech experience. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEooqi9LSwzHl+v6sRAqtrAJ9y2yxCiWlh3jbH/nxrzqMVyCh9MACghPal qzCsGZJ+BpKwEwJ3zDeEXi8= =FyyJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N-- From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 12:08:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462033B00A7 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19610-06 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7982C3B01CD for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SG7rpH001308; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:07:53 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvcTl-00029Z-Vx; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:01:26 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:01:25 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 16:08:39 -0000 --SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR" Content-Disposition: inline --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, finally, I'm attaching patches: audsp-queue.patch Patch for festival's audsp to also report the currently playing file on (audio_mode 'query) This seems to bring no particular improvement. I suspect that gnopernicus doesn't need the is_speaking function too badly, after all? unclutter.patch Patch for gnome-speech festival driver to send a single, more compact SayText command, and to avoid sending empty strings or string containing only blanks. This is mainly a cosmetic patch. recode.patch Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 instead of utf-8. This fixes the Italian voices! Hooray!! Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="unclutter.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- /home/enrico/src/orig/gnome-speech-0.4.0/drivers/festival/festivalsynth= esisdriver.c 2006-05-14 16:49:21.000000000 +0200 +++ festivalsynthesisdriver.c 2006-06-28 17:43:04.252707768 +0200 @@ -35,6 +35,7 @@ #include #include #include +#include #include "festivalsynthesisdriver.h" #include "festivalspeaker.h" =20 @@ -910,21 +911,29 @@ { gchar *escaped_string; gchar *ptr1, *ptr2; + int spaces_only =3D 1; =20 g_assert (IS_FESTIVAL_SYNTHESIS_DRIVER (d) && IS_FESTIVALSPEAKER (s) && t= ext); =20 - =20 - escaped_string =3D g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1); + + escaped_string =3D g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1+20); + strcpy(escaped_string, "(SayText \""); ptr1 =3D text; - ptr2 =3D escaped_string; + ptr2 =3D escaped_string + strlen(escaped_string); while (ptr1 && *ptr1) { - if (*ptr1 =3D=3D '\"') + if (!isspace(*ptr1)) + spaces_only =3D 0; + if (*ptr1 =3D=3D '\"' || *ptr1 =3D=3D '\\') *ptr2++ =3D '\\'; *ptr2++ =3D *ptr1++; } + *ptr2++ =3D '"'; + *ptr2++ =3D ')'; + *ptr2++ =3D '\r'; + *ptr2++ =3D '\n'; *ptr2 =3D 0; - + =20 /* Refresh if needded */=20 if (d->last_speaker !=3D s || speaker_needs_parameter_refresh (SPE= AKER(s))) { @@ -937,16 +946,15 @@ clb_list_free (d->crt_clbs); d->crt_clbs =3D speaker_get_clb_list (SPEAKER (s)); =20 + if (!spaces_only) + { #ifdef FESTIVAL_DEBUG_TEXT - fprintf (stderr, "\nSENT:\"%s\" from \"%s\"", escaped_string, text); + fprintf (stderr, "\nSENT:\"%s\" from \"%s\"", escaped_string, text); #endif - d->is_speaking =3D TRUE; - d->queue_length =3D 1; - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \""); - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "\")\r\n"); - - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \"\")\r\n"); + d->is_speaking =3D TRUE; + d->queue_length =3D 1; + festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); + } =20 if (escaped_string) g_free (escaped_string); --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="recode.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- festivalsynthesisdriver.c 2006-06-28 17:43:04.252707768 +0200 +++ festivalsynthesisdriver.c.final 2006-06-28 17:41:15.475244456 +0200 @@ -941,6 +941,12 @@ festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, s->voice); speaker_refresh_parameters (SPEAKER(s)); d->last_speaker =3D s; + + if (strcmp(d->last_speaker->voice, "(voice_pc_diphone)\n") =3D=3D 0 + || strcmp(d->last_speaker->voice, "(voice_lp_diphone)\n") =3D=3D 0) + g_io_channel_set_encoding(d->channel_sock, "latin1", NULL); + else + g_io_channel_set_encoding(d->channel_sock, "UTF-8", NULL); } =20 clb_list_free (d->crt_clbs); --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="audsp-queue.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- audsp.cc 2006-06-28 17:46:18.384195296 +0200 +++ /home/enrico/src/festival-1.4.3.enrico/src/main/audsp.cc 2006-06-28 15:= 22:28.162537000 +0200 @@ -104,6 +104,15 @@ static int sp_terminate(void); static void tidy_up(void); =20 +static int no_more_input =3D FALSE; +static CQueue command_queue; +static int child_pid =3D 0; +static EST_String current_file; +static EST_Option play_wave_options; +static int maxqueue =3D 5; +static int pending_close =3D FALSE; +static int kids =3D 0; + void CQueue::push(Command *c) { // Put this item on tail @@ -143,10 +152,18 @@ void CQueue::display(void) const { CQueue_Item *t; - int i; + int i =3D 0; + int len =3D length(); + if (kids > 0) + { + ++len; + ++i; + } =20 - cerr << "Command_queue: " << length() << endl; - for (i=3D0,t=3Dhead; t !=3D 0; t=3Dt->next,i++) + cerr << "Command_queue: " << len << endl; + if (kids > 0) + cerr << " " << 0 << ": " << current_file << endl; + for (t=3Dhead; t !=3D 0; t=3Dt->next,i++) cerr << " " << i << ": " << t->c->file() << endl; } =20 @@ -176,15 +193,6 @@ tail =3D 0; } =20 -static int no_more_input =3D FALSE; -static CQueue command_queue; -static int child_pid =3D 0; -static EST_String current_file; -static EST_Option play_wave_options; -static int maxqueue =3D 5; -static int pending_close =3D FALSE; -static int kids =3D 0; - int main(int argc, char **argv) { =20 --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR-- --SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEoqfV9LSwzHl+v6sRAsloAJ9NSW6Jj7NDEq4ubcRTxEPZkgh6JQCfThZv SWQpep7MnFeaNCNf1HelzvY= =EbZs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Wed Jun 28 13:56:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE1C3B0357 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24930-07 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (nwkea-mail-2.sun.com [192.18.42.14]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C905F3B047B for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5SHtmkv026846 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1L007010B4TM@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:55:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-151.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.151]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1L00D8T0GZ0M@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:55:48 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:57:00 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> To: Enrico Zini , William.Walker@Sun.COM Message-id: <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:56:18 -0000 Hi Enrico: Thanks a bunch for those patches! I have a question about the utf-8/latin1 patch... ... > > recode.patch > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > instead of utf-8. Are you sure this is sufficient? Don't you need to call g_convert in order to convert the strings from the gnome-speech client to latin1 before passing them to the engine? > This fixes the Italian voices! Hooray!! That's great news. But it seems to me that there should be something more general and robust than just checking the voice string, in order to determine the correct encoding which the festival engine/voice expects. Note also that this problem seems to have been introduced on May 14 when Will explicitly changed the encoding on the iochannel from ISO-8859-1 to UTF-8. Will, can you explain why you did that? Bill > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Wed Jun 28 14:05:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A27A93B0365 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25636-01 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-mail-5.sun.com (nwkea-mail-5.sun.com [192.18.42.27]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F7B3B012D for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by nwkea-mail-5.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5SI54u8020652 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1L00A010OB04@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:05:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-151.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.151]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1L00DJG0WF0M@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:05:03 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:06:16 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> To: Enrico Zini Message-id: <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:05:24 -0000 Hi: I found the bug whose patch seems to have introduced the problem Enrico found: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=321216 So it seems a more general/robust method is needed for determining the correct encoding for the output channel. For some voices it's apparently UTF-8, whereas for most european voices it's "latin 1". Presumably some languages may need latin2, etc. instead... Bill On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 17:01, Enrico Zini wrote: > Hello, > > finally, I'm attaching patches: > > audsp-queue.patch > Patch for festival's audsp to also report the currently playing file > on (audio_mode 'query) > > This seems to bring no particular improvement. I suspect that > gnopernicus doesn't need the is_speaking function too badly, after > all? > > unclutter.patch > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver to send a single, more compact > SayText command, and to avoid sending empty strings or string > containing only blanks. > > This is mainly a cosmetic patch. > > recode.patch > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > instead of utf-8. > > This fixes the Italian voices! Hooray!! > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 19:00:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75EF43B0061 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06116-07 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (ns.virtuo.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 156933B0167 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SMxdWk013642; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:59:41 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fvik3-000332-VW; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:42:39 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:42:39 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Bill Haneman Message-ID: <20060628224239.GB7241@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.672 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.766, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.672 X-Spam-Level: Cc: William.Walker@Sun.COM, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:00:07 -0000 --Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 06:57:00PM +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > recode.patch > > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > > instead of utf-8. > Are you sure this is sufficient? Don't you need to call g_convert in > order to convert the strings from the gnome-speech client to latin1 > before passing them to the engine? Yes, it is sufficient, and I tested the patched gnome-speech for quite a while enjoying for the first time a good trip at a spoken OpenOffice, and a nice read of lots of accented characters. I must admit I was surprised myself. Apparently the g_io infrastructure has been designed smartly so that UTF-8 applications can talk with the external world in its many incarnations. > That's great news. But it seems to me that there should be something > more general and robust than just checking the voice string, in order to > determine the correct encoding which the festival engine/voice expects. True. And if one day the italian festival voice will be changed to take utf-8, then gnome-speech will need changing as well. However, I have currently no idea how to query a festival voice for the preferred encoding. Maybe there's a super-simple lisp function for that, and we can get rid of the compiled-in per-voice encoding list. Or, otherwise, it can be not compiled in but read from a config file. > Note also that this problem seems to have been introduced on May 14 when > Will explicitly changed the encoding on the iochannel from ISO-8859-1 to > UTF-8. Will, can you explain why you did that? To me it makes a lot of sense to send out data in UTF-8 by default: I think that it's the italian voice that is broken in this regard. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEowXf9LSwzHl+v6sRAjtfAJ9P4w4g3a91DNRKR+jApNWh1dybCgCeJ0/P M9ToQPSWG7J2ti0P24CSZ+o= =CnPR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a-- From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 19:00:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D7D3B01D5 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06351-03 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (ns.virtuo.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D25603B0077 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SMxtWE013658; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:59:55 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fviq6-00033K-Vn; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:48:55 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:48:54 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Hynek Hanke Message-ID: <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="H8ygTp4AXg6deix2" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.662 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.756, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.662 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Bill Haneman , William.Walker@Sun.COM, zamazal@brailcom.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:00:16 -0000 --H8ygTp4AXg6deix2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, then > you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate functions > and let Festival care about the necessary conversions between encodings. > Encodings can be easily defined by the user in the configuration file, > or can be specified by the author of the voice, as is the case with > festival-czech. It has a dependency on the 'recode' utility. The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" and then communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it will be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because there seems to be a general consensus in moving away from gnome-speech. From what I understand it's currently fine to make fixes to gnome-speech, but a bit too late to do major redesigns. BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from gnome-speech, and since a long time, too. > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the encoding > used for different voices is easily configurable by the user. I think > there is no way how to determine the encoding of a given voice in > Festival automatically (which is of course broken :( ), so giving the > user the power to fix the problem without recompiling anything is very > important. Good point. So, either there's a way to query the preferred encoding to the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should all be read from some external config and not compiled in. There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian speech synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the encoding, or to do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't know enough of Festival to be able to do that. Maybe the festival developers can help here? Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --H8ygTp4AXg6deix2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEowdW9LSwzHl+v6sRAjJXAJ4u8WmGgkpv57JAnp7AqK+Y71qTIgCfTNws P1wIYaoBIws1FHYlsk/kUXs= =Bfg9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --H8ygTp4AXg6deix2-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Wed Jun 28 20:13:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17823B00EC for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09357-09 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9763B3B007D for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5T0CZVT013271 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1L00L01HWDHP@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:12:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-57.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.57]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1L00BMFHWYD3@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:12:35 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:13:48 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> To: Enrico Zini Message-id: <1151540028.7061.22.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.58 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.58 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Hynek Hanke , William.Walker@Sun.COM, zamazal@brailcom.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:13:06 -0000 I think creating some configuration file, like for instance: gnome-speech/festival/voices.config makes sense. That way we can map voices to POSIX locales, which would be very useful, and we can also include info on the voice's string encoding format while we are at it. It's a bit hacky but probably the best solution for now. gnome-speech has some API for asking what locales a voice supports, but in order to implement it better such a config file is needed anyway. It might as well be a simple text format so that users can easily add voices. Bill On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 23:48, Enrico Zini wrote: > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > > > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, then > > you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate functions > > and let Festival care about the necessary conversions between encodings. > > Encodings can be easily defined by the user in the configuration file, > > or can be specified by the author of the voice, as is the case with > > festival-czech. It has a dependency on the 'recode' utility. > > The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" and then > communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it will > be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because there > seems to be a general consensus in moving away from gnome-speech. From > what I understand it's currently fine to make fixes to gnome-speech, but > a bit too late to do major redesigns. > > BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can > understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from gnome-speech, > and since a long time, too. > > > > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the encoding > > used for different voices is easily configurable by the user. I think > > there is no way how to determine the encoding of a given voice in > > Festival automatically (which is of course broken :( ), so giving the > > user the power to fix the problem without recompiling anything is very > > important. > > Good point. So, either there's a way to query the preferred encoding to > the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should all be > read from some external config and not compiled in. > > There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian speech > synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the encoding, or to > do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't know enough of Festival to be > able to do that. Maybe the festival developers can help here? > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From FDMA@once.es Thu Jun 29 02:57:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689E63B0218 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23945-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:57:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx.once.es (mx.once.es [217.149.152.66]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07933B00B2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from omail01.once.org (unknown [172.24.1.51]) by mx.once.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4601C37F8; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:57:48 +0200 (MEST) Received: by OMAIL01.once.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:57:06 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Dorado_Mart=EDnez=2C_Francisco_Javier=22?= To: Bill Haneman , Enrico Zini Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:57:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.581 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.581 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Hynek Hanke , William.Walker@Sun.COM, zamazal@brailcom.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:57:14 -0000 Hi all I would extend this solution to all speech-synthesis-drivers cause no TTS is UTF-8 capable. I have had this problem with dectalk and festival. And the other way, set to the locale We found that in Ubuntu for example, the locale is set to UTF-8 too. LANG='es_ES_UTF-8' Since some voices in Festival seems to work with UTF-8, I think a user setting to set the channel encoding would make sense. Regards Javier. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Bill Haneman [mailto:Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM] > Enviado el: jueves, 29 de junio de 2006 2:14 > Para: Enrico Zini > CC: Hynek Hanke; William.Walker@Sun.COM; > zamazal@brailcom.org; ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com; > gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > Asunto: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza > > > I think creating some configuration file, like for instance: > gnome-speech/festival/voices.config > makes sense. That way we can map voices to POSIX locales, > which would be very useful, and we can also include info on > the voice's string encoding format while we are at it. It's > a bit hacky but probably the best solution for now. > > gnome-speech has some API for asking what locales a voice > supports, but in order to implement it better such a config > file is needed anyway. It might as well be a simple text > format so that users can easily add voices. > > Bill > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 23:48, Enrico Zini wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > > > > > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, > > > then you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate > > > functions and let Festival care about the necessary conversions > > > between encodings. Encodings can be easily defined by the user in > > > the configuration file, or can be specified by the author of the > > > voice, as is the case with festival-czech. It has a dependency on > > > the 'recode' utility. > > > > The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival > -server" and then > > communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it > > will be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because > > there seems to be a general consensus in moving away from > > gnome-speech. From what I understand it's currently fine to make > > fixes to gnome-speech, but a bit too late to do major redesigns. > > > > BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can > > understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from > gnome-speech, > > and since a long time, too. > > > > > > > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the > > > encoding used for different voices is easily configurable by the > > > user. I think there is no way how to determine the encoding of a > > > given voice in Festival automatically (which is of course > broken :( > > > ), so giving the user the power to fix the problem without > > > recompiling anything is very important. > > > > Good point. So, either there's a way to query the > preferred encoding > > to the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should > > all be read from some external config and not compiled in. > > > > There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian > > speech synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the > > encoding, or to do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't > know enough > > of Festival to be able to do that. Maybe the festival > developers can > > help here? > > > > > > Ciao, > > > > Enrico > > > > -- > > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > From hanke@brailcom.org Wed Jun 28 15:24:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E84D93B00E1 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29777-01 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out3.iol.cz (smtp-out3.iol.cz [194.228.2.91]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F2CD3B008A for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from antivir3.iol.cz (avir3 [192.168.30.206]) by smtp-out3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB19E82A3; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (antivir3.iol.cz [127.0.0.1]) by antivir3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id E703E42000D; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp-out3.iol.cz (smtp-out-3.iplanet.iol.cz [192.168.30.28]) by antivir3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D8842000A; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.36] (77.93.broadband2.iol.cz [83.208.93.77]) by smtp-out3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2C43BE49; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Hynek Hanke To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:22:41 +0200 Message-Id: <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at iol.cz X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 03:15:38 -0400 Cc: William.Walker@Sun.COM, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, zamazal@brailcom.org, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:24:50 -0000 Bill Haneman writes v St 28. 06. 2006 v 18:57 +0100: > > recode.patch > > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > > instead of utf-8. > Are you sure this is sufficient? Don't you need to call g_convert in > order to convert the strings from the gnome-speech client to latin1 > before passing them to the engine? >That's great news. But it seems to me that there should be something >more general and robust than just checking the voice string, in order >to determine the correct encoding which the festival engine/voice > expects. > [...] > Note also that this problem seems to have been introduced on May 14 when > Will explicitly changed the encoding on the iochannel from ISO-8859-1 to > UTF-8. Will, can you explain why you did that? Hello, if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, then you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate functions and let Festival care about the necessary conversions between encodings. Encodings can be easily defined by the user in the configuration file, or can be specified by the author of the voice, as is the case with festival-czech. It has a dependency on the 'recode' utility. festival-freebsoft-utils also provide other nice functions (such as partial SSML support) and a coherent API. I'm CCing its developer Milan Zamazal who can answer future questions better than me. If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the encoding used for different voices is easily configurable by the user. I think there is no way how to determine the encoding of a given voice in Festival automatically (which is of course broken :( ), so giving the user the power to fix the problem without recompiling anything is very important. With regards, Hynek Hanke From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Thu Jun 29 05:15:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257113B0371 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32068-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10CCA3B040A for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5T9FYiR027118 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 03:15:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1M00J0171S0L@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:15:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-82.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.82]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1M00DA17226D@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:15:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:16:52 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: To: "\"Dorado =?UTF-8?Q?Mart=C3=ADnez=2C?= Francisco Javier\"" Message-id: <1151572612.7091.6.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.58 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.58 X-Spam-Level: Cc: William.Walker@Sun.COM, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, Hynek Hanke , zamazal@brailcom.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 09:15:57 -0000 Hi Javier: Actually, festival _is_ UTF-8 capable, at least for some voices. The change to use UTF-8 on the festival stream was part of a patch to support an Indian dialect, but unfortunately it seems that the impact on european languages wasn't understood when it was committed. I made a change to the gnome-speech festival driver in April 2005 to use ISO-8859-1 as its encoding, which worked for all the festival european languages which we were aware of at the time. However it didn't work with the Indian language above, thus the patch. I still think ISO-8859-1 might be a better 'default' for the festival driver than UTF-8, since as far as I know none of the european voices expect UTF-8 input. It works for English of course, but perhaps only for ASCII characters! regards Bill On Thu, 2006-06-29 at 07:57, "Dorado Martínez, Francisco Javier" wrote: > Hi all > > I would extend this solution to all speech-synthesis-drivers cause no TTS is > UTF-8 capable. I have had this problem with dectalk and festival. And the > other way, set to the locale We found that in Ubuntu for example, the locale > is set to UTF-8 too. LANG='es_ES_UTF-8' > > Since some voices in Festival seems to work with UTF-8, I think a user > setting to set the channel encoding would make sense. > > Regards > > Javier. > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: Bill Haneman [mailto:Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM] > > Enviado el: jueves, 29 de junio de 2006 2:14 > > Para: Enrico Zini > > CC: Hynek Hanke; William.Walker@Sun.COM; > > zamazal@brailcom.org; ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com; > > gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > Asunto: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza > > > > > > I think creating some configuration file, like for instance: > > gnome-speech/festival/voices.config > > makes sense. That way we can map voices to POSIX locales, > > which would be very useful, and we can also include info on > > the voice's string encoding format while we are at it. It's > > a bit hacky but probably the best solution for now. > > > > gnome-speech has some API for asking what locales a voice > > supports, but in order to implement it better such a config > > file is needed anyway. It might as well be a simple text > > format so that users can easily add voices. > > > > Bill > > > > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 23:48, Enrico Zini wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > > > > > > > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, > > > > then you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate > > > > functions and let Festival care about the necessary conversions > > > > between encodings. Encodings can be easily defined by the user in > > > > the configuration file, or can be specified by the author of the > > > > voice, as is the case with festival-czech. It has a dependency on > > > > the 'recode' utility. > > > > > > The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival > > -server" and then > > > communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it > > > will be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because > > > there seems to be a general consensus in moving away from > > > gnome-speech. From what I understand it's currently fine to make > > > fixes to gnome-speech, but a bit too late to do major redesigns. > > > > > > BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can > > > understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from > > gnome-speech, > > > and since a long time, too. > > > > > > > > > > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the > > > > encoding used for different voices is easily configurable by the > > > > user. I think there is no way how to determine the encoding of a > > > > given voice in Festival automatically (which is of course > > broken :( > > > > ), so giving the user the power to fix the problem without > > > > recompiling anything is very important. > > > > > > Good point. So, either there's a way to query the > > preferred encoding > > > to the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should > > > all be read from some external config and not compiled in. > > > > > > There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian > > > speech synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the > > > encoding, or to do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't > > know enough > > > of Festival to be able to do that. Maybe the festival > > developers can > > > help here? > > > > > > > > > Ciao, > > > > > > Enrico > > > > > > -- > > > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 06:40:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D29A3B020C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04497-06 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09BAC3B00FC for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvtwI-0004cx-Hl for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:40:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:40:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:40:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:39:02 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 48 Message-ID: <87zmfwkzzt.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:dpr5gWF7m2CQe57deFG/X7ghQoI= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.441 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.340, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.441 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:40:11 -0000 >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: EZ> The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" EZ> and then communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how EZ> much effort it will be to convert it to use EZ> festival-freebsoft-utils, Just load it on Festival startup (e.g. in /etc/festival.scm). EZ> And if one day the italian festival voice will be changed to EZ> take utf-8, Italian Festival voice needn't be changed, Festival should be changed itself to support UTF-8. EZ> However, I have currently no idea how to query a festival voice EZ> for the preferred encoding. The festival-freebsoft-utils call is (current-voice-coding) e.g.: festival> (voice_kal_diphone) kal_diphone festival> (current-voice-coding) ISO-8859-1 festival> (voice_czech_ph) czech_ph festival> (current-voice-coding) ISO-8859-2 EZ> To me it makes a lot of sense to send out data in UTF-8 by EZ> default: Yes. EZ> I think that it's the italian voice that is broken in this EZ> regard. No, actually Festival is broken as it doesn't support UTF-8 input, someone should fix it (but I'm afraid it's a non-trivial task). Regards, Milan Zamazal From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Thu Jun 29 06:46:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6D303B0138 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04924-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1490C3B0218 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5TAkeCp014913 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 04:46:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1M00I01B3LIM@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:46:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-82.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.82]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1M00LVLB9UYQ@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:46:42 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:47:55 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <87zmfwkzzt.fsf@zamazal.org> To: Milan Zamazal Message-id: <1151578075.7091.9.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> <87zmfwkzzt.fsf@zamazal.org> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:46:49 -0000 Milan: Thanks for pointing out this festival API (for finding the preferred encoding). I didn't know it existed. It seems to me that the gnome-speech driver should just make the equivalent API call and set the io channel to the festival driver accordingly. That would prevent us from having to make up some kind of config file. regards Bill On Thu, 2006-06-29 at 11:39, Milan Zamazal wrote: > >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: > > EZ> The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" > EZ> and then communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how > EZ> much effort it will be to convert it to use > EZ> festival-freebsoft-utils, > > Just load it on Festival startup (e.g. in /etc/festival.scm). > > EZ> And if one day the italian festival voice will be changed to > EZ> take utf-8, > > Italian Festival voice needn't be changed, Festival should be changed > itself to support UTF-8. > > EZ> However, I have currently no idea how to query a festival voice > EZ> for the preferred encoding. > > The festival-freebsoft-utils call is > > (current-voice-coding) > > e.g.: > > festival> (voice_kal_diphone) > kal_diphone > festival> (current-voice-coding) > ISO-8859-1 > festival> (voice_czech_ph) > czech_ph > festival> (current-voice-coding) > ISO-8859-2 > > EZ> To me it makes a lot of sense to send out data in UTF-8 by > EZ> default: > > Yes. > > EZ> I think that it's the italian voice that is broken in this > EZ> regard. > > No, actually Festival is broken as it doesn't support UTF-8 input, > someone should fix it (but I'm afraid it's a non-trivial task). > > Regards, > > Milan Zamazal > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 06:55:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27B713B02DE for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05272-04 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7DAB3B01B2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvuAo-0000a3-FI for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:53:55 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 51 Message-ID: <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:xyq5D6be7wiyH0v/WllG97UCzOs= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.321 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.220, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.321 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:55:05 -0000 >>>>> "BH" == Bill Haneman writes: BH> So it seems a more general/robust method is needed for BH> determining the correct encoding for the output channel. For BH> some voices it's apparently UTF-8, whereas for most european BH> voices it's "latin 1". Presumably some languages may need BH> latin2, etc. instead... Yes. IMO a reasonable approach is to use the coding declared by the voice and to use ISO-8859-1 if the voice doesn't declare its coding. This is what festival-freebsoft-utils does. Preferably all voices should declare their coding. There's no standard way to do that in Festival; festival-freebsoft-utils introduces just another item in the voice declaration called `coding' for that purpose. It's trivial to add it and it's IMHO better than introducing new configuration options to all the Festival frontends. The festival-freebsoft-utils current-voice-coding function is trivial: (define (current-voice-coding) (or (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice)))) 'ISO-8859-1)) If all you need from festival-freebsoft-utils is this function then there's no need to require the whole festival-freebsoft-utils package to be able to figure out the voice coding. BH> Actually, festival _is_ UTF-8 capable, at least for some voices. It is not. The UTF-8 voices handle the UTF-8 input as a sequence of 8-bit characters. Of course this is far from being comfortable and one can't use many standard Festival functions on such an input. So UTF-8 is used in Festival only for languages which can't represent their character set in an 8-bit coding. Of course, the best way would be to make Festival work with Unicode characters. But I think this is a non-trivial task and apparently nobody works on it. So I'd suggest to use the `coding' voice property workaround described above for now. BH> I still think ISO-8859-1 might be a better 'default' for the BH> festival driver than UTF-8, since as far as I know none of the BH> european voices expect UTF-8 input. Yes. Regards, Milan Zamazal From enrico@enricozini.org Thu Jun 29 10:22:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7911C3B0578 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18271-03 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B93D23B052C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5TEM3eY028650; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:22:03 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvxOy-00087V-OF; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:21:52 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:21:52 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Milan Zamazal Message-ID: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wac7ysb48OaltWcw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.664, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.57 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:22:15 -0000 --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 12:53:55PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote: > Preferably all voices should declare their coding. There's no standard > way to do that in Festival; festival-freebsoft-utils introduces just > another item in the voice declaration called `coding' for that purpose. > It's trivial to add it and it's IMHO better than introducing new > configuration options to all the Festival frontends. > The festival-freebsoft-utils current-voice-coding function is trivial: > (define (current-voice-coding) > (or (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice)))) > 'ISO-8859-1)) > If all you need from festival-freebsoft-utils is this function then > there's no need to require the whole festival-freebsoft-utils package to > be able to figure out the voice coding. I tried, but: festival> (voice_lp_diphone) lp_diphone festival> (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice))) nil So I guess the Italian voice doesn't define that. If you give me a piece of lisp code that adds that definition, I can add it to the Debian and Ubuntu package, and try to push it upstream. With regards to gnome-speech, honoring the encoding seems quite easy. In the function festival_response_sock there is this query: (list 'VOICEDESC:=20 (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) Where %s gets substituted to be the voice name. Besides that maybe is a good idea to refer to parameters by name using assoc rather than by position using nth, it sounds trivial to add another parameter to that and handle it later on. So, if I can get the right help with the LISP code, I can take care of this. Meet me on irc.freenode.net or irc.oftc.net as 'enrico' if you'd like to have a quick session about it. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo+IA9LSwzHl+v6sRAlGPAJ96Nzy2xOcsmeoNJwHixevRz0uNJQCfdXpd fOEYLprvfHa5JEDUAemIt5M= =C4nl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wac7ysb48OaltWcw-- From cerha@brailcom.org Thu Jun 29 11:01:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73EE83B03AE for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21302-07 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gate.brailcom.cz (158-84-244-84.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz [84.244.84.158]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1B6203B0461 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17561 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2006 16:39:40 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.15.2?) (192.168.15.2) by ns.brailcom.xx with SMTP; 29 Jun 2006 16:39:40 +0200 Message-ID: <44A3EB22.9080304@brailcom.org> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:00:50 +0200 From: Tomas Cerha Organization: Brailcom, o.p.s. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, orca-list@gnome.org, speechd@lists.freebsoft.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.085 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.221, BAYES_50=0.001, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.085 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:01:26 -0000 Hello, I would like to announce availability of an EXPERIMENTAL Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca. Please, see http://www.freebsoft.org/~cerha/orca/speech-dispatcher-backend.html for more information. Any feedback is welcome, however, please note that I will not be on-line until July 10. Kindest regards, Tomas -- Brailcom, o.p.s. http://www.brailcom.org Free(b)soft project http://www.freebsoft.org Eurochance project http://eurochance.brailcom.org From enrico@enricozini.org Thu Jun 29 11:03:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C423B042C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21507-07 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (ns2.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE533B03F8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5TF3EOG000406; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:03:15 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fvy2b-0000hI-1R; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:02:49 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:02:48 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Milan Zamazal Message-ID: <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.528 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.622, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.528 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:03:24 -0000 --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 03:21:52PM +0100, Enrico Zini wrote: > So I guess the Italian voice doesn't define that. If you give me a > piece of lisp code that adds that definition, I can add it to the Debian > and Ubuntu package, and try to push it upstream. Found! Happyness: festival> (voice_lp_diphone) lp_diphone festival> (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice))) (coding "ISO-8859-1") Is it ok for it to be defined straight into /usr/share/festival/voices/italian/pc_diphone/festvox/pc_diphone.scm, added at the end like this? (proclaim_voice 'pc_diphone '((language italian) (gender male) (dialect none) (description "This voice provides a Italian male voice using a residual excited LPC diphone synthesis method. The lexicon is provived by a set of letter to sound rules producing pronunciation accents and syllabification. The durations, intonation and prosodic phrasing are minimal but are acceptable for simple examples.") (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) Because if like this is ok, I can upload the new package in Debian and prod the Ubuntu people to pick it up. Not that it would make a big difference since ISO-8859-1 would be a default, but it would set an example for others to follow. BTW, is "coding" a name that comes from some standard or a name that we're inventing right now? Because if we're inventing it right now, then I think I'd prefer "encoding". > (list 'VOICEDESC:=20 > (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) > (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) And I think I can fix this as well: (list 'VOICEDESC: (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) (cadr (assoc 'language (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) (cadr (assoc 'dialect (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) (cadr (assoc 'gender (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) (or (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) "ISO-8859-1")) Now, to properly read and store this data, I have to add an 'encoding' field to GNOME::Speech::VoiceInfo. That would be changing the IDL in gnome-speech. How free am I to do that? What are the side effects of doing it? Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo+uY9LSwzHl+v6sRAhkAAKCQnE/euumT8jec5wt1aZBZFc+uuwCeOHf4 EXCnT/8KVVYD0+fjTfvU59Y= =oiAG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm-- From themuso@themuso.com Thu Jun 29 11:15:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA4E63B03F8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22467-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vscan01.westnet.com.au (vscan01.westnet.com.au [203.10.1.131]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E903B0505 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E678762855 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:18 +0800 (WST) Received: from vscan01.westnet.com.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (vscan01.westnet.com.au [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29279-03 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:18 +0800 (WST) Received: from marlon.yelavich.home (dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au [202.173.132.131]) by vscan01.westnet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id B99C57628A1 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:17 +0800 (WST) Received: (nullmailer pid 26422 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:15:03 -0000 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 01:15:03 +1000 From: Luke Yelavich To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060629151503.GA25557@marlon.yelavich.home> References: <44A3EB22.9080304@brailcom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <44A3EB22.9080304@brailcom.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.422 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.042, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.422 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:15:09 -0000 --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 30, 2006 at 01:00:50AM EST, Tomas Cerha wrote: > Hello, >=20 > I would like to announce availability of an EXPERIMENTAL Speech > Dispatcher backend for Orca. Please, see > http://www.freebsoft.org/~cerha/orca/speech-dispatcher-backend.html for > more information. Any feedback is welcome, however, please note that I > will not be on-line until July 10. Thanks heaps for this. Since Edgy is in development, this will be going=20 straight into the orca package to be included in Edgy. Thanks again. --=20 Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE=20 (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo+53jVefwtBjIM4RAmKKAKDCPHwcbh6r2NazhSnMTcM6AFuuGwCg0x6d kj1qLk5XrsmbxaGJS9fSSSU= =rYjk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb-- From arieltenor@gmail.com Thu Jun 29 11:08:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74D9B3B058F for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:08:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21987-02 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BBE03B0593 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:07:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s15so96609wxc for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.22.6 with SMTP id 6mr3210086wxv; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.67.6 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:07:51 -0500 From: "Ariel Rios" To: "Enrico Zini" In-Reply-To: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.362 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.362 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:19:01 -0400 Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, Milan Zamazal Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:08:06 -0000 > With regards to gnome-speech, honoring the encoding seems quite easy. > In the function festival_response_sock there is this query: > > (list 'VOICEDESC: > (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) > (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) > > Where %s gets substituted to be the voice name. Besides that maybe is a > good idea to refer to parameters by name using assoc rather than by > position using nth, it sounds trivial to add another parameter to that > and handle it later on. I think so. Doing all those nth looks ugly and if you are going to be doing this query constantly it makes sense to the the assoc. > So, if I can get the right help with the LISP code, I can take care of > this. Meet me on irc.freenode.net or irc.oftc.net as 'enrico' if you'd > like to have a quick session about it. I can help with the scheme code. Let me look for you in a minute. ariel From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 11:55:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFD23B00D2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24656-03 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E843B0144 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Fvyr8-0006fP-GC for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:55:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:55:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:53:49 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 65 Message-ID: <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:+80M3HQGRKAuLAbwU4dDIvRgQL0= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.264 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.163, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.264 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:55:09 -0000 >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: EZ> Is it ok for it to be defined straight into EZ> /usr/share/festival/voices/italian/pc_diphone/festvox/pc_diphone.scm, EZ> added at the end like this? EZ> (proclaim_voice EZ> 'pc_diphone EZ> '((language italian) EZ> (gender male) EZ> (dialect none) EZ> (description EZ> "This voice provides a Italian male voice using a EZ> residual excited LPC diphone synthesis method. The lexicon EZ> is provived by a set of letter to sound rules producing pronunciation EZ> accents and syllabification. The durations, intonation and EZ> prosodic phrasing are minimal but are acceptable for simple EZ> examples.") EZ> (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) Yes, except that it's probably better to specify the coding without double quotes: (coding ISO-8859-1) EZ> Because if like this is ok, I can upload the new package in EZ> Debian and prod the Ubuntu people to pick it up. Not that it EZ> would make a big difference since ISO-8859-1 would be a default, EZ> but it would set an example for others to follow. Good idea, thanks! EZ> BTW, is "coding" a name that comes from some standard or a name that EZ> we're inventing right now? I introduced this name in festival-freebsoft-utils. AFAIK it's not used anywhere else and the only voice that declares it is our Czech voice. EZ> Because if we're inventing it right now, then I think I'd prefer EZ> "encoding". Well, I'm not sure which of the two English terms better fits the context. EZ> (list 'VOICEDESC: EZ> (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) EZ> (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) EZ> And I think I can fix this as well: EZ> (list 'VOICEDESC: EZ> (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) EZ> (cadr (assoc 'language (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (cadr (assoc 'dialect (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (cadr (assoc 'gender (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (or EZ> (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> "ISO-8859-1")) Yes, this is the right thing to do. Regards, Milan Zamazal From enrico@enricozini.org Thu Jun 29 12:28:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D09633B034A for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26784-09 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (agnus.ngi.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744AF3B01A9 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5TGRvUj006958; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:27:57 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvzMn-0003yu-E9; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:27:45 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:27:45 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Milan Zamazal Message-ID: <20060629162745.GB480@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="S1BNGpv0yoYahz37" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.492 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.586, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.492 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza (more patch bonanza) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:28:04 -0000 --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/" Content-Disposition: inline --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 05:53:49PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote: > EZ> (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) > Yes, except that it's probably better to specify the coding without > double quotes: (coding ISO-8859-1) Done. I'm not proficient with LISP: what is the difference? > EZ> Because if we're inventing it right now, then I think I'd prefer > EZ> "encoding". > Well, I'm not sure which of the two English terms better fits the > context. 'coding' is ok with me, if it's already used somewhere. > Yes, this is the right thing to do. Good! People, please review the attached patch for gnome-speech to take advantage of the 'coding' attribute. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="recode1.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- festivalsynthesisdriver.c 2006-05-14 15:49:21.000000000 +0100 +++ festivalsynthesisdriver.c.buono 2006-06-29 17:23:25.000000000 +0100 @@ -45,6 +45,8 @@ #undef FESTIVAL_DEBUG_SEND #undef FESTIVAL_DEBUG_TEXT =20 +#define DEFAULT_ENCODING "ISO-8859-1" + static gint text_id =3D 0; static GObjectClass *parent_class; static gboolean festival_server_exists =3D FALSE; @@ -52,6 +54,7 @@ static GSList *driver_list =3D NULL; static GSList *markers_list =3D NULL; static GSList *voices_list =3D NULL; +static GSList *encodings_list =3D NULL; =20 typedef struct { @@ -98,6 +101,37 @@ static void festival_process_text_out (FestivalTextOut *text_out); static void festival_free_list (FestivalSynthesisDriver *d); =20 +static void encoding_set(GNOME_Speech_VoiceInfo* voice, gchar* encoding) +{ + /* First, try to see if we have it already */ + GSList* cur =3D encodings_list; + int len =3D strlen(voice->name); + for ( ; cur !=3D NULL; cur =3D cur->next) + if (strncmp((gchar*)cur->data, voice->name, len) =3D=3D 0) + { + /* If we have it, replace it */ + g_free(cur->data); + cur->data =3D g_strdup_printf("%s:%s", voice->name, encoding); + return; + } + /* Otherwise, insert it */ + encodings_list =3D g_slist_prepend (encodings_list, g_strdup_printf("%s:%= s", voice->name, encoding)); +} + +static gchar* encoding_get(FestivalSpeaker* speaker) +{ + /* Look for the item in the list */ + GSList* cur =3D encodings_list; + int len =3D strlen(speaker->voice); + /* Speaker should be at least "(voice_?)\n" */ + if (len < 10) + return DEFAULT_ENCODING; + for ( ; cur !=3D NULL; cur =3D cur->next) + if (strncmp((gchar*)cur->data, speaker->voice + 7, len - 9) =3D=3D 0) + return (gchar*)cur->data + len - 9 + 1; + /* If not found, default to latin1 */ + return DEFAULT_ENCODING; +} =20 static FestivalTextMarker * festival_text_marker_new () @@ -329,12 +363,19 @@ p =3D strstr (voices[i], ")\n"); if (p !=3D NULL) *p =3D 0;=20 - query_voice_des =3D g_strdup_printf ("(list 'VOICEDESC: " - "(nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) " - "(nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) " - "(nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) " - "(nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))))\n", - voices[i], voices[i], voices[i], voices[i]); + /* Adds an extra nil to help tokenization later */ + query_voice_des =3D g_strdup_printf ( + "(list 'VOICEDESC: " + "(nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) " + "(cadr (assoc 'language (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + "(cadr (assoc 'dialect (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + "(cadr (assoc 'gender (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + "(or " + " (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + " \"" DEFAULT_ENCODING "\") " + "nil)\n", + voices[i], voices[i], voices[i], voices[i], voices[i]); + festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (driver, query_voice_des); voices_waiting_for_description++; g_free (query_voice_des); @@ -349,7 +390,8 @@ voice[1] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[1], "nil") &&=20 voice[2] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[2], "nil") &&=20 voice[3] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[3], "nil") &&=20 - voice[4] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[4], "nil")) + voice[4] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[4], "nil") && + voice[5] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[5], "nil")) { GNOME_Speech_VoiceInfo *new_info; new_info =3D GNOME_Speech_VoiceInfo__alloc (); @@ -360,6 +402,7 @@ else new_info->gender =3D GNOME_Speech_gender_male; voices_list =3D g_slist_append (voices_list, new_info); + encoding_set(new_info, voice[5]); } voices_waiting_for_description--; if (voices_waiting_for_description =3D=3D 0)=20 @@ -932,6 +975,7 @@ festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, s->voice); speaker_refresh_parameters (SPEAKER(s)); d->last_speaker =3D s; + g_io_channel_set_encoding(d->channel_sock, encoding_get(d->last_speak= er), NULL); } =20 clb_list_free (d->crt_clbs); --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/-- --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo/+B9LSwzHl+v6sRAnyPAJ9744vEU1S2Oq/qQevRaK1+GbjZJACfWr4/ dyTACe4V/punjtN0eDQftQI= =i9pI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37-- From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 12:55:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122743B0400 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28305-10 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B473B00D5 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvznC-0000WD-4X for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:55:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:55:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:50:32 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 22 Message-ID: <878xnflxd3.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629162745.GB480@viaza> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:H6u74mUGFPwBjR+c1CCtX3cUt/g= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.23 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.129, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.23 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza (more patch bonanza) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:55:24 -0000 >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: EZ> On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 05:53:49PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote: EZ> (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) >> Yes, except that it's probably better to specify the coding >> without double quotes: (coding ISO-8859-1) EZ> Done. I'm not proficient with LISP: what is the difference? >From the language view, double quoted elements are strings, while those without them are symbols. There is not much difference between strings and symbols in Festival, but it may be good to be consistent with the other voice properties (which are symbols). >From the practical view, symbols are printed without double quotes, i.e. it is slightly easier to read the coding in programs communicating with Festival. Regards, Milan Zamazal From hanke@brailcom.org Thu Jun 29 15:35:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 290343B00D2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05215-04 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out4.iol.cz (smtp-out4.iol.cz [194.228.2.92]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7DB3B00E8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from antivir4.iol.cz (avir4 [192.168.30.209]) by smtp-out4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 832071F8FF5; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (antivir4.iol.cz [127.0.0.1]) by antivir4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 763C6240025; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp-out4.iol.cz (smtp-out-4.iplanet.iol.cz [192.168.30.31]) by antivir4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C0C240024; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.36] (77.93.broadband2.iol.cz [83.208.93.77]) by smtp-out4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D3022AFA2; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Hynek Hanke To: Enrico Zini In-Reply-To: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:34:18 +0200 Message-Id: <1151609659.3329.5.camel@chopin> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at iol.cz X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 03:09:27 -0400 Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, Milan Zamazal Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:35:54 -0000 > So I guess the Italian voice doesn't define that. If you give me a > piece of lisp code that adds that definition, I can add it to the Debian > and Ubuntu package, and try to push it upstream. Would it make sense to also include definitions for the other voices in the list that Gary Cramblitt posted here? With regards, Hynek From daniel.cotto@wanadoo.fr Sun Jun 11 06:04:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6394D3B0092 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02487-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.wanadoo.fr (smtp5.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01F9D3B03C2 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mlusine (ACaen-152-1-86-248.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr [86.205.244.248]) by mwinf0512.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id C52861C001EC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:03:11 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060611100311807.C52861C001EC@mwinf0512.orange.fr From: "Daniel COTTO" To: "GnomeAccessibilityDevel" Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:03:13 +0200 Message-ID: <000301c68d3e$407647a0$0b01a8c0@mlusine> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: AcaNPkAWdeh9Cp6AR+uGUqKI+xaBmg== X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.987 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, TW_GD=0.077] X-Spam-Score: 1.987 X-Spam-Level: * Subject: [g-a-devel] Problem using gnopernicus in the latest debian testing release X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:04:07 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 I=92am just upgrading my debian testing and concequently I got the = testing version of brltty (3.7.2-3) and gnopernicus (1.0.4). The gnome version = used is: 2.14. =20 My problem: * I log from gdm and my num-lock is on. * When I use the numpad key, Gnopernicus seem to run the appropriates commands but the corresponding numeric key is sent to the application, = and so, I write this numbers. =20 An illustration: I=92am in the gnome desktop: I hit the 7 key, an =E8 is echoed in the = inputbox. I do the same thing in mozilla, I can see the title bar. =20 Have you an idea ? =20 Thans =20 Daniel =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

I’am just upgrading my debian testing = and concequently I got the testing version of brltty (3.7.2-3) and gnopernicus (1.0.4). = The gnome version used is: 2.14.

 

My problem:

  • I log = from gdm and my num-lock is on.
  • When I = use the numpad key, Gnopernicus seem to run the appropriates commands but the = corresponding numeric key is sent to the application, and so, I write this = numbers.

 

An illustration:

I’am in the gnome desktop: I hit the 7 = key, an =E8 is echoed in the inputbox. I do the same thing in mozilla, I can see the = title bar.

 

Have you an idea = ?

 

Thans

 

Daniel

 

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0-- From mclasen@redhat.com Mon Jun 12 09:40:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C743B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04507-04 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFEE3B00A7 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CDGF34023554 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Received: from mail.boston.redhat.com (mail.boston.redhat.com [172.16.76.12]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CDGF1D021144 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Received: from golem.boston.redhat.com (golem.boston.redhat.com [172.16.80.24]) by mail.boston.redhat.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5CDGFlQ031838 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 From: Matthias Clasen To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Message-Id: <1150118175.15532.6.camel@golem.boston.redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.1 (2.7.1-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.541 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.541 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:40:15 -0000 Are we serious about a11y ? A few weeks ago, I asked about a11y gaps in new GTK+ feature, but I never heard anything back, except from our QA people, who try to use the a11y framework for automated testing. So I finally sat down last night and wrote minimal a11y support for GtkAssistant myself last night. I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. Obviously, that is not happening. I'm tempted to remove the icon view a11y code after 2.10, if nobody steps forward to fix it. Shipping broken code helps nobody... Matthias From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Tue Jun 20 09:58:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 459A33B01B0 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18759-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (imap.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 766BD3B01A8 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NHGK3P7S; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:58:28 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:57:21 -0300 Message-Id: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.784 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.400, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_24_48=0.88, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.784 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:58:27 -0000 Hi guys, I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our community members have in mind about this. If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do this work in older hardware. Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I will start to play. Thanks, --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Tue Jun 20 15:14:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3613B0307 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07651-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F9193B01AB for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.39.120]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5KJER4K002898 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-10.sun.com by d1-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1600601API4100@d1-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.20.7] by d1-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J16001HLAS3X9B0@d1-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:19 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carlos_Eduardo_Rodrigues_Di=F3genes?= Message-id: <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:14:30 -0000 Hi Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues, I believe the cost of new video cards is coming down so rapidly that the best place for most of our magnification investment is around COMPOSITE. Every customer I come in contact with around UNIX accessibility compares what we are doing to the state of the art in Windows commercial software. And users have come to expect this level of quality, and depend upon the efficiency and productivity that is affords them (and are NOT willing to give that up). I agree that to make good use of COMPOSITE, the magnifier must know about most window manager tasks. I think the best way to do this is to build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window manager(s) of our desktop(s). I don't see a lot of value to keeping the magnifier separate from the window manager. All that said, users who don't have the resources for modern graphics cards are an important group, and your idea of an OverlayWindow is an interesting one. I'm curious to see where that investigation goes! Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > Hi guys, > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > community members have in mind about this. > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > this work in older hardware. > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > will start to play. > > Thanks, > From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Tue Jun 20 15:57:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4323B0155 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10359-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (webmail.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A8533B028F for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NHGK3YKV; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:57:10 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: Peter Korn In-Reply-To: <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:55:15 -0300 Message-Id: <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.78 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.396, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_24_48=0.88, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.78 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:57:58 -0000 Hi Peter, On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 12:14 -0700, Peter Korn wrote: > Hi Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues, >=20 > I believe the cost of new video cards is coming down so rapidly that the=20 > best place for most of our magnification investment is around=20 > COMPOSITE. Every customer I come in contact with around UNIX=20 > accessibility compares what we are doing to the state of the art in=20 > Windows commercial software. And users have come to expect this level=20 > of quality, and depend upon the efficiency and productivity that is=20 > affords them (and are NOT willing to give that up). >=20 > I agree that to make good use of COMPOSITE, the magnifier must know=20 > about most window manager tasks. I think the best way to do this is to=20 > build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window=20 > manager(s) of our desktop(s). I don't see a lot of value to keeping the=20 > magnifier separate from the window manager. I think that compiz make something like this, isn't is? There is anyone that is working on this type of support in metacity? There is any documenation/discussion about magnification support in the compositing window manager? I have doubt if build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window manager is really the rigth place. I think that the best, from this scenario, is some sort of cooperation, but how? I think that looking inside compiz could give me some answears. I don't like the idea to merge these two kinds of applications, I think that if we could maintaim they modular, let's maintaim, for me this is the greatest value in keeping the magnifier separate from the window manager. >=20 > All that said, users who don't have the resources for modern graphics=20 > cards are an important group, and your idea of an OverlayWindow is an=20 > interesting one. I'm curious to see where that investigation goes! >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Peter Korn > Accessibility Architect, > Sun Microsystems, Inc. >=20 > > Hi guys, > > > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > community members have in mind about this. > > > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like cod= e > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server ca= n > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have = a > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > this work in older hardware. > > > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents o= f > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reason= s > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > will start to play. > > > > Thanks, > > =20 >=20 --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From gk4@austin.ibm.com Tue Jun 20 16:50:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B2803B082C for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13556-05 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e5.ny.us.ibm.com (e5.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.145]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3983B04FC for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e5.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5KKo21n023832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:03 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.6/NCO/VER7.0) with ESMTP id k5KKo2Qp274726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:02 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k5KKo1uF012475 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:01 -0400 Received: from gk4.austin.ibm.com (gk4.austin.ibm.com [9.53.33.16]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5KKo10H012423; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:01 -0400 From: George Kraft To: "Carlos Eduardo R." =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= In-Reply-To: <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Organization: IBM Corp Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:47:12 -0500 Message-Id: <1150836432.10012.252.camel@gk4.austin.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.489 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.489 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org, Peter Korn Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: gk4@austin.ibm.com List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:50:15 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 16:55 -0300, Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Diógenes wrote: > There is anyone that is working on this type of support in metacity? > There is any documenation/discussion about magnification support in > the compositing window manager? Soren has stubbed in magnification into metacity. I was going to help, but I've been distracted. Also, I've recently published http://xmcm.sourceforge.net/ Best regards, -- George (gk4) From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Wed Jun 21 08:16:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2D63B0F8E for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03259-01 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D253B0F37 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so80985nfe for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.34.19 with SMTP id m19mr514346nfj; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:16:15 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" Sender: skating.tortoise@gmail.com To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7fa2bf341aa83a4f X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.369 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.231, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.369 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:16:19 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From aaronlev@moonset.net Thu Jun 22 09:13:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518E83B06D0 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29197-09 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E822A3B0570 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 22 Jun 2006 09:15:34 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,165,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226576714:sNHT26649024" Message-ID: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:43 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:13:53 -0000 [Trying to send one more time] Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. Make sense? - Aaron From William.Walker@Sun.COM Thu Jun 22 11:23:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DA6B3B0748 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05496-07 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBBD43B06B2 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-05.sun.com ([192.18.108.179]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5MFNqud011876 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1900E01PA33700@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1900AC0PFRVS32@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:50 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Aaron Leventhal Message-id: <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:23:55 -0000 If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to know where the user's current location is in the document, then not emitting this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend upon that as a solution. So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. Thanks! Will On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: > [Trying to send one more time] > > Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For > example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next > item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. > > I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. > Make sense? > > - Aaron > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 13:54:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA773B025B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26527-04 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B6E3B00AD for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 13:56:05 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,162,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226168781:sNHT29208052" Message-ID: <449987C9.3020805@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:17 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.392 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.207, BAYES_40=-0.185] X-Spam-Score: -1.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:07 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:54:22 -0000 Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. Make sense? - Aaron From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 23:30:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07D123B026B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24121-09 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C7B3B014B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 23:31:59 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,164,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226452079:sNHT19593734" Message-ID: <449A0EC2.9050209@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:10 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.542 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.057, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:30 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:30:16 -0000 Resending ... first attempt was apparently not approved by the list moderator: From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 23:30:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9443B02C3 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24103-10 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E213B014B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 23:32:33 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,164,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226452251:sNHT24016468" Message-ID: <449A0EE4.5020200@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:44 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.544 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:30 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:30:50 -0000 Resending ... first attempt was apparently not approved by the list moderator: > Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For > example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next > item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. > I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. > Make sense? - Aaron From aaronlev@moonset.net Fri Jun 23 09:03:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E9A3B07FD for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12466-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (unknown [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AEA53B075C for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2006 09:05:27 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,168,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="227155211:sNHT23078846" Message-ID: <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:33 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Willie Walker References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:03:51 -0000 Will, When the caret is invisible the location has to be considered the current focus. I certainly hope the AT is not depending just on the caret, but is following the focus as well. The point about clicking was that it is just one way this invisible caret is moved. About the only affect the invisible caret has is that the next find command will start finding text from there. - Aaron Willie Walker wrote: > If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to know > where the user's current location is in the document, then not emitting > this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an > option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend > upon that as a solution. > > So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. > > Thanks! > > Will > > On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: > >> [Trying to send one more time] >> >> Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For >> example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next >> item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. >> >> I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. >> Make sense? >> >> - Aaron >> _______________________________________________ >> Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list >> Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel >> > > > From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 10:54:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01C23B088E for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18836-03 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.188]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05CA3B0901 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so91380nfe for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.4.17 with SMTP id g17mr2514299nfi; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:54:14 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" Sender: skating.tortoise@gmail.com To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: f682d046db45120e X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.443 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.157, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.443 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:54:17 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 11:07:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C11ED3B08E6 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19490-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B34AB3B0459 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so93352nfe for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.4.17 with SMTP id g17mr2523841nfi; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:07:39 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:07:44 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From William.Walker@Sun.COM Fri Jun 23 20:07:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D103B0181 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12949-05 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA883B000A for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-06.sun.com ([192.18.108.180]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5O07h9W019563 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1C00C0177J9X00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1C00C5V8CUOG01@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:38 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Aaron Leventhal Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:07:46 -0000 > When the caret is invisible the location has to be considered the > current focus. I certainly hope the AT is not depending just on the > caret, but is following the focus as well. Some classes of AT's, such as a screen reader, care about not only what object has focus, but other information about that object as well. For example, which item(s) are selected in a list, what the value of a slider is, and where the caret is in a text object. Will > > The point about clicking was that it is just one way this invisible > caret is moved. About the only affect the invisible caret has is that > the next find command will start finding text from there. > > - Aaron > > > Willie Walker wrote: >> If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to >> know >> where the user's current location is in the document, then not >> emitting >> this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an >> option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend >> upon that as a solution. >> >> So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Will >> >> On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: >> >>> [Trying to send one more time] >>> >>> Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For >>> example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next >>> item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. >>> >>> I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. >>> Make sense? >>> >>> - Aaron >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list >>> Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org >>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel >>> >> >> >> From enrico@enricozini.org Sat Jun 24 07:13:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0053B02C1; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09160-07; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45FC13B006E; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5OBDf7s005708; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:13:41 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fu64i-0006Mo-Ds; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:13:16 +0100 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:13:16 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ibTvN161/egqYuK8" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Subject: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 11:13:47 -0000 --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I'm trying to look more into the problems I'm having with the speech support on Dapper (see my mail with subject "Fixing brittle speech support on Dapper" from June, 10th, which strangely isn't showing up in the archives at http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/200= 6-June/thread.html). I started reading through gnome-speech source code. I noticed that it runs festival as a server and talks to it. This makes us have a screen reader that talks CORBA to a server that talks TCP/IP to another server who then does the synthesis. That's too many passages in which something can go wrong. Instinctively, I'm considering rewriting the festival driver to using the C API rather than the festival server. The C API of Festival is just as simple as this: http://rafb.net/paste/results/I7trk068.html I'll look into it a bit more, writing some test code to talk to the CORBA festival driver as well as test code for the festival C/C++ API, so that I can gain familiarity with both things. Any reasons why this hasn't been done yet? In the meantime, however, before I hurt my brain too much with this, what's the overall situation? Is it worth the effort of fixing gnome-speech, or is the effort better spend on making something else work? I'm already quite frustrated of not getting any sort of answer on the list for this problem that is getting me totally stuck (and thank Luke Yelavich for mora support on IRC), and I don't know how I would cope if I spent time and effort on this just to hear as soon as I've finished that everyone's moving to speech-dispatcher or some other kind of a totally different technology. If it's not worth spending efforts on gnome-speech, please let me know what I can use to replace it, since it doesn't work for me. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEnR5M9LSwzHl+v6sRAvfXAJ96YsbY8wqms77UDb9GCEEkTBctXgCdHWgz kdeLwfWldHDFD8gNgZRK8LU= =0xvb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ibTvN161/egqYuK8-- From cerha@brailcom.org Mon Jun 26 05:14:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96163B0124 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04277-06 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gate.brailcom.cz (158-84-244-84.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz [84.244.84.158]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B750E3B0174 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11545 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2006 10:52:49 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.15.2?) (192.168.15.2) by ns.brailcom.xx with SMTP; 26 Jun 2006 10:52:49 +0200 Message-ID: <449FA559.1050508@brailcom.org> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:14:01 +0200 From: Tomas Cerha Organization: Brailcom, o.p.s. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org References: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> In-Reply-To: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.463 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.858, BAYES_20=-0.74, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.463 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:14:16 -0000 Enrico Zini wrote: > Hello, > In the meantime, however, before I hurt my brain too much with this, > what's the overall situation? Is it worth the effort of fixing > gnome-speech, or is the effort better spend on making something else > work? Hi Enrico, I'm currently working on Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca. This bypasses the Gnome Speech layer completely. Since Speech Dispatcher offers several speech synthesizers not supported by Gnome Speech, this may be essential for some people and the Orca -> Gnome Speech -> Speech Dispatcher -> synthesizer aproach has inherent problems. This might solve your problem too. Please, see also the common "TTS API" draft at http://www.freebsoft.org/tts-api. This is a common effort of Free Desktop and FSG. Best regards, Tomas -- Brailcom, o.p.s. http://www.brailcom.org Free(b)soft project http://www.freebsoft.org Eurochance project http://eurochance.brailcom.org From enrico@enricozini.org Mon Jun 26 08:44:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCDA03B0387; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18426-01; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FC23B02F7; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5QCihKc011937; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:44:43 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FuqNo-0003eT-1a; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:40:04 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:40:03 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Tomas Cerha Message-ID: <20060626124003.GA13572@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: Tomas Cerha , gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org References: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> <449FA559.1050508@brailcom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <449FA559.1050508@brailcom.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:44:48 -0000 --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 11:14:01AM +0200, Tomas Cerha wrote: > I'm currently working on Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca. This > bypasses the Gnome Speech layer completely. Since Speech Dispatcher > offers several speech synthesizers not supported by Gnome Speech, this > may be essential for some people and the Orca -> Gnome Speech -> Speech > Dispatcher -> synthesizer aproach has inherent problems. This might > solve your problem too. >=20 > Please, see also the common "TTS API" draft at > http://www.freebsoft.org/tts-api. This is a common effort of Free > Desktop and FSG. Cool. Is there a way I can use all of this right now on Dapper? Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEn9Wj9LSwzHl+v6sRAofUAJ9rGqFPNo5F+9EKH1UOKSt32EG0nwCfZZUp 64toiGSrN/swh06OHchQyCY= =hVic -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 10:49:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71B7A3B0124 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:49:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25701-04 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367823B017B for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QEmdiH024863 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:48:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H008012BMA0@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:48:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H008072H345@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:48:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:49:51 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Message-id: <1151333390.7079.11.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:49:02 -0000 Hi Chris: The answer is, "don't implement sticky keys in your keyboard". You should be using the system-wide StickyKeys settings and feature instead (as GOK does). Interfering with the normal operation of the system wide setting (i.e clashing with it as your app does), is itself an accessibility violation. (There are several gconf keys you can use to turn sticky keys on and off - see those under /desktop/gnome/accessibility/keyboard) Bill > I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is > stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way > to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? > > thanks > > > -- > Chris Jones From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 11:35:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AC673B0455 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29080-01 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4549A3B048F for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QFZ73i010232 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:35:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H00E014M3JB@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:35:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H008ZS4MI45@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:35:06 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:36:18 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Message-id: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:35:19 -0000 > Hi guys, > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > community members have in mind about this. Hi Carlos: I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that was available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it didn't' look like a lot of code. I believe that basically we'd just need to use Composite's capability to prune the window tree, separate our magnifier window out, and render only that window to the screen after compositing directly into it. Why is it not that straightforward? I don't understand the problem you seem concerned about... regards, Bill > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > this work in older hardware. > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > will start to play. > > Thanks, From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 11:44:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C4D53B04D3 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29613-10 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6AE53B017D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QFiq8T016353 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:44:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H00I01507Z9@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:44:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H0087R52S45@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:44:52 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:46:03 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: mclasen@redhat.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-id: <1151336763.7079.60.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.578 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.020, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.578 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:44:55 -0000 Hi Matthias: I've been away for a number of weeks as you may know, and have just re-joined this list. > Are we serious about a11y ? Well, are we? You seem to imply here that it's something "those a11y folks" are supposed to do. I don't think it can work that way; if 'we' (i.e. Gnome/Free-Software developers) want accessibility to work, then we all need to share the labor, since it's a big task. > A few weeks ago, I asked about a11y gaps in new GTK+ feature, > but I never heard anything back, except from our QA people, who > try to use the a11y framework for automated testing. > > So I finally sat down last night and wrote minimal a11y > support for GtkAssistant myself last night. Great, that's fantastic! Thanks for doing what I suggest above, i.e. helping make new code accessible as part of the ordinary process of Gnome/GTK+ development. > I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been > broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ > under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. I didn't know there was any a11y code in gtk+ proper yet, usually it's all in gail. Could you explain? > Obviously, that is not happening. Obviously? I don't know about this. > I'm tempted to remove the > icon view a11y code after 2.10, if nobody steps forward to > fix it. Shipping broken code helps nobody... Well, are there bugs against it? Threatening to pull code doesn't help. I'd also like to note that there seemed to be consensus about a year ago that gail should be folded into gtk+ instead of kept as a separate library, because of various maintenance issues. I think that's a great idea. Note that we do desperately need help to maintain gail, since currently the co-maintainer is not really available to work on it and I am spending virtually all of my time on other high-priority accessibility issues. So please help us with patches and bugfixes. Bill > Matthias > From enrico@enricozini.org Mon Jun 26 12:21:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2663B0436 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32045-03 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8A23B03C6 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5QGLRcQ002275 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:21:27 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Futns-0002F5-7C for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:19:12 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:19:12 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060626161912.GA7775@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.459 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.005, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.459 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-speech festival driver problems explained X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:21:31 -0000 --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (sort of) Hi. After studying the (uncommented) festival driver source code, I got to some conclusions: - the Italian speech synthesis doesn't like speaking nothingness: $ festival Festival Speech Synthesis System 1.4.3:release Jan 2003 Copyright (C) University of Edinburgh, 1996-2003. All rights reserved. For details type `(festival_warranty)' festival> (SayText "") # festival> (SayText " ") # festival> (voice_lp_diphone) lp_diphone festival> (SayText " ") SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val festival> (SayText "") SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val festival> - the festival driver sends LOTS of nothingness: festivalsynthesisdriver.c:945: festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \""); festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "\")\r\n"); festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \"\")\r\n"); basically, after every string that is sent, and empty string is sent. Why? No idea. A comment explaining why would really have helped. - festival_synthesis_driver_is_speaking is broken: when festival has only one wave in the audio spooler, it says that the queue is empty. I enabled debugging info in the driver, and every single time it queried the audio queue, it's always been reported empty, even if it was actually speaking. - I tried simplifying the interaction a bit: I got rid of all the (useless) audio queue enquiries and I simplified the way text is sent, sending all in a single bunch: escaped_string =3D g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1+20); strcpy(escaped_string, "(SayText \""); ptr1 =3D text; ptr2 =3D escaped_string + strlen(escaped_string); while (ptr1 && *ptr1) { if (*ptr1 =3D=3D '\"' || *ptr1 =3D=3D '\\') *ptr2++ =3D '\\'; *ptr2++ =3D *ptr1++; } *ptr2++ =3D '"'; *ptr2++ =3D ')'; *ptr2++ =3D '\r'; *ptr2++ =3D '\n'; *ptr2 =3D 0; [...] festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); oh, and I also escaped \ characters, which weren't escaped before (security risk? I didn't investigate).=20 The result was that things were a little bit more stable, but not much. Sound would stop (reliably reproducible by hitting ALT+F1 to go to the panel menu), but switching window with ALT+Tab would usually bring it back. However, sometimes gnopernicus wouldn't read its own menu entries unless one plays with ALT+Tab a bit more. So, it seems that window switching has a therapeutic influence here. When sound stops, what happens is that gnopernicus doesn't send data to the speech driver at all. I suspect that what happens is that the driver status reporting is confusing gnopernicus somehow. I tried to rewrite the festival driver using the festival C++ API instead of the pipeline to a festival server, but got stuck with the audio output: the festival audio scheduler has unreliable status report, and I'd have to implement a queryable and interruptible audio scheduler, which is something I'd spend days doing because I'm not familiar with glib even loops and esd/gstreamer programming. So, problems identified so far: - italian voices hate empty/blank strings - the driver sends lots of empty strings. The errors should be ignored by the server, though. - is_speaking report is unreliable - gnopernicus tends to stop sending data to the festival driver, possibly because of getting confused by the driver status reports. Switching windows seems to shake gnopernicus back to normal. - the way SayText strings are constructed should be improved, see the code snipped above. I'm sorry I didn't pinpoint the problems better, but the festival driver's code is full of enqueuing callbacks into lists and glib event queues, and is hard to follow for me. I would have liked to write the author and work on it together, but it's basically anonymous (it just says "Sun Microsystem"). I tried with orca as well, which seems to be more reliable in sending data to the speech driver, until at some point it caused all my desktop to hung up to the point of needing a CTRL+ALT+Backspace to restart X. I'll now try to work out how to make the festival voices work fine with empty/blank strings. I would be happy if someone can tell me what door to knock regarding the gnome-speech festival driver internals. =20 Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEoAj/9LSwzHl+v6sRAt4uAJ9kfJKR5qeaLfvDLuRLUwoR5mG9fACdEBVL TbENT/HLSKuN2IJDVy1HJhc= =Hi5Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 12:50:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D91D83B009A for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01334-03 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AF063B035F for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QGoQ40028657 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H00L017XYOP@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:50:26 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H00G1I841KL@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:50:26 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:51:37 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060626161912.GA7775@viaza> To: Enrico Zini Message-id: <1151340697.7079.69.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060626161912.GA7775@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_WC=0.077, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-speech festival driver problems explained X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:50:38 -0000 Hi Enrico: I am glad you are getting somewhere with your investigations. Thanks for the detective work. The copyright statement is not usually a helpful place to look if you are asking yourself, "who wrote this"? You might look at viewcvs (cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-speech), you can even get line-by-line attribution on exactly who committed a piece of code to CVS. Also the ChangeLog in the main gnome-speech directory may help you. Will Walker is currently maintaining gnome-speech, though he did not write the festival driver. I believe Remus Draica of BAUM committed a lot of the code which handles callbacks and "completion" notifications. Try rd at baum dot ro. I am pretty sure one reason we didn't use the C API for festival is difficulty with the audio scheduler. Also, note that festival has changed a bit since we first wrote the driver, so possibly some things have changed/broken in the interaction with recent festival versions. It should be easy to strip the "empty" or whitespace strings from the driver, and this seems like a harmless thing to do at least. If you prepare a patch that does this I'd be happy to commit it for you. If orca is working better, you might stick with that, and you may be able to get some assistance from Will Walker (william dot walker at sun dot com). best regards, Bill On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 17:19, Enrico Zini wrote: > (sort of) > > Hi. > > After studying the (uncommented) festival driver source code, I got to > some conclusions: > > - the Italian speech synthesis doesn't like speaking nothingness: > > $ festival > Festival Speech Synthesis System 1.4.3:release Jan 2003 > Copyright (C) University of Edinburgh, 1996-2003. All rights reserved. > For details type `(festival_warranty)' > festival> (SayText "") > # > festival> (SayText " ") > # > festival> (voice_lp_diphone) > lp_diphone > festival> (SayText " ") > SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val > festival> (SayText "") > SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val > festival> > > - the festival driver sends LOTS of nothingness: > > festivalsynthesisdriver.c:945: > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \""); > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "\")\r\n"); > > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \"\")\r\n"); > > basically, after every string that is sent, and empty string is sent. > Why? No idea. A comment explaining why would really have helped. > > - festival_synthesis_driver_is_speaking is broken: when festival has > only one wave in the audio spooler, it says that the queue is empty. > I enabled debugging info in the driver, and every single time it > queried the audio queue, it's always been reported empty, even if it > was actually speaking. > > - I tried simplifying the interaction a bit: I got rid of all the > (useless) audio queue enquiries and I simplified the way text is > sent, sending all in a single bunch: > > escaped_string = g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1+20); > strcpy(escaped_string, "(SayText \""); > ptr1 = text; > ptr2 = escaped_string + strlen(escaped_string); > while (ptr1 && *ptr1) > { > if (*ptr1 == '\"' || *ptr1 == '\\') > *ptr2++ = '\\'; > *ptr2++ = *ptr1++; > } > *ptr2++ = '"'; > *ptr2++ = ')'; > *ptr2++ = '\r'; > *ptr2++ = '\n'; > *ptr2 = 0; > [...] > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); > > oh, and I also escaped \ characters, which weren't escaped before > (security risk? I didn't investigate). > > The result was that things were a little bit more stable, but not much. > Sound would stop (reliably reproducible by hitting ALT+F1 to go to the > panel menu), but switching window with ALT+Tab would usually bring it > back. However, sometimes gnopernicus wouldn't read its own menu entries > unless one plays with ALT+Tab a bit more. So, it seems that window > switching has a therapeutic influence here. > > When sound stops, what happens is that gnopernicus doesn't send data to > the speech driver at all. I suspect that what happens is that the > driver status reporting is confusing gnopernicus somehow. > > I tried to rewrite the festival driver using the festival C++ API > instead of the pipeline to a festival server, but got stuck with the > audio output: the festival audio scheduler has unreliable status report, > and I'd have to implement a queryable and interruptible audio scheduler, > which is something I'd spend days doing because I'm not familiar with > glib even loops and esd/gstreamer programming. > > So, problems identified so far: > > - italian voices hate empty/blank strings > - the driver sends lots of empty strings. The errors should be ignored > by the server, though. > - is_speaking report is unreliable > - gnopernicus tends to stop sending data to the festival driver, > possibly because of getting confused by the driver status reports. > Switching windows seems to shake gnopernicus back to normal. > - the way SayText strings are constructed should be improved, see the > code snipped above. > > I'm sorry I didn't pinpoint the problems better, but the festival > driver's code is full of enqueuing callbacks into lists and glib event > queues, and is hard to follow for me. I would have liked to write the > author and work on it together, but it's basically anonymous (it just > says "Sun Microsystem"). > > I tried with orca as well, which seems to be more reliable in sending > data to the speech driver, until at some point it caused all my desktop > to hung up to the point of needing a CTRL+ALT+Backspace to restart X. > > I'll now try to work out how to make the festival voices work fine with > empty/blank strings. I would be happy if someone can tell me what door > to knock regarding the gnome-speech festival driver internals. > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From mclasen@redhat.com Mon Jun 26 13:00:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A31C3B017D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01856-01 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 886EE3B042D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5QH0JQG020601; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:19 -0400 Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (lacrosse.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.154]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5QH0E5S015427; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:14 -0400 Received: from [172.16.83.129] (vpn83-129.boston.redhat.com [172.16.83.129]) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k5QH0DJb024353; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:14 -0400 From: Matthias Clasen To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151336763.7079.60.camel@linux.site> References: <1151336763.7079.60.camel@linux.site> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:02:29 -0400 Message-Id: <1151341349.3063.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.3 (2.7.3-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.547 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.547 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:00:23 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 16:46 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been > > broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ > > under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. > > I didn't know there was any a11y code in gtk+ proper yet, > usually it's all in gail. Could you explain? The icon view a11y code was already inside GTK+, since we didn't want to expose all the innards that would be required to do the a11y implementation in gail. The original implemenation was done by Padraig, but he is doing other things now, right ? The code needs to be updated to work with the cell renderer based approach that is used in GTK+ >= 2.8. I started to look into that myself, but didn't get very far... > > Obviously, that is not happening. > > Obviously? I don't know about this. > Sorry I the sound of my message was too harsh; I still care about accessibility, obviously :-) Matthias From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Mon Jun 26 13:31:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF943B046C for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03384-09 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:31:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (webmail.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 479AF3B042D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:31:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NP315MWW; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:34:13 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:33:38 -0300 Message-Id: <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.693 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.476, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=1.247, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.693 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:31:39 -0000 Hi Bill, On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 16:36 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > Hi guys, > >=20 > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > community members have in mind about this. >=20 > Hi Carlos: >=20 > I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features= =20 > just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), > it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic=20 > to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that > was available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it=20 > didn't' look like a lot of code. We must emulate some of the window-manager-like features to know about what is happening with the windows, so we can a fine control what must be composed, because without a good use of what we must compose we will push down perfomance. I don't think that it's a premature optimization, because I don't think in it like the right solution. We don't need do duplicate efforts. The xserver can do this work for us so more easy. Moreover, putting this in the xserver we will being creating the mechanisms to improve the gnome-mag, or anyother magnifier, API a lot and with a lot of flexibility and less code. How Composite does the things is more suitable to applications that want to add a eye-kind desktop to the user and low-vision users don't like this, for they the desktop must be the as simple as possible, without effects. They prefer static things. >=20 > I believe that basically we'd just need to use Composite's capability > to prune the window tree, separate our magnifier window out, and=20 > render only that window to the screen after compositing directly > into it. =20 It will so much easy if we can ask a piece of the window, manipulate it like we want (using xrender or any other mechanism/algorithm) and then draw in the magnifier window (the only window that goes to screen memory). The changes to gnome-mag will be minors. >=20 > Why is it not that straightforward? I don't understand the problem=20 > you seem concerned about... Because we must implement a composite manager or embbed magnifier logic in window-managers. The first will only have good performance in good computers with good video cards. This is not a big problem, since the prices are lowering more and more, but we still with a glue code in the application that can be avoided. The later sounds very terrible to me, since magnifiers and window-managers are to distinct things. I, like a magnifier developer don't want to worry in my code with some question related about window-manager, and I think that the vice-versa is true. Moreover, a window-manager is a policy while, for me and I think to you too, the magnifier service is a mechanism. >=20 > regards, >=20 > Bill >=20 > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like cod= e > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server ca= n > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have = a > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > this work in older hardware. > >=20 > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents o= f > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > >=20 > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reason= s > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > will start to play. > >=20 > > Thanks, >=20 --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Tue Jun 27 08:22:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B33353B0072 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:22:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28053-08 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948CC3B0012 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5RBi0V7019064 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 05:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1I00601OHMXN@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:43:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from dhcp-226-143.Ireland.Sun.COM (dhcp-226-143.Ireland.Sun.COM [129.156.226.143]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1I00F8WOLB70@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:43:59 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:45:11 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> To: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?UTF-8?Q?Di=C3=B3genes?= Message-id: <1151408711.7842.10.camel@dhcp-226-143.ireland.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.507 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.091, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.507 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:22:35 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 18:33, Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Diógenes wrote: > Hi Bill, > > On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 16:36 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > > community members have in mind about this. > > > > Hi Carlos: > > > > I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features > > just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), > > it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic > > to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that > > was available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it > > didn't' look like a lot of code. > > We must emulate some of the window-manager-like features to know about > what is happening with the windows, so we can a fine control what must > be composed, because without a good use of what we must compose we will > push down perfomance. I don't think I agree with your assessment. Perhaps you could be more explicit? Why would we need to do more clipping/checking that the existing compositing manager? At most, we would want to keep track of the current magnified viewport. > I don't think that it's a premature optimization, > because I don't think in it like the right solution. We don't need do > duplicate efforts. The xserver can do this work for us so more easy. I don't recommend this - we had extensive discussions with the XServer development community about magnification needs, and Composite is what we got. Writing a new Xserver extension, and getting it accepted, which is what you are proposing, doesn't seem like a reasonable thing to do until we first try to make full use of the new XServer extension that was already written in part to try and solve our magnification issues. regards, Bill > Moreover, putting this in the xserver we will being creating the > mechanisms to improve the gnome-mag, or anyother magnifier, API a lot > and with a lot of flexibility and less code. > > How Composite does the things is more suitable to applications that want > to add a eye-kind desktop to the user and low-vision users don't like > this, for they the desktop must be the as simple as possible, without > effects. They prefer static things. > > > > > I believe that basically we'd just need to use Composite's capability > > to prune the window tree, separate our magnifier window out, and > > render only that window to the screen after compositing directly > > into it. > > It will so much easy if we can ask a piece of the window, manipulate it > like we want (using xrender or any other mechanism/algorithm) and then > draw in the magnifier window (the only window that goes to screen > memory). The changes to gnome-mag will be minors. > > > > > Why is it not that straightforward? I don't understand the problem > > you seem concerned about... > > Because we must implement a composite manager or embbed magnifier logic > in window-managers. The first will only have good performance in good > computers with good video cards. This is not a big problem, since the > prices are lowering more and more, but we still with a glue code in the > application that can be avoided. The later sounds very terrible to me, > since magnifiers and window-managers are to distinct things. I, like a > magnifier developer don't want to worry in my code with some question > related about window-manager, and I think that the vice-versa is true. > Moreover, a window-manager is a policy while, for me and I think to you > too, the magnifier service is a mechanism. > > > > > regards, > > > > Bill > > > > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > > this work in older hardware. > > > > > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > > > > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > > will start to play. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > -- > Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Diógenes > Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From gk4@austin.ibm.com Tue Jun 27 14:39:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36343B0110 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12817-01 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e3.ny.us.ibm.com (e3.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.143]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4BE43B00A6 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5RIbt75014141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:55 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.6/NCO/VER7.0) with ESMTP id k5RIbs2s242296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:54 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k5RIbsX3011385 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:54 -0400 Received: from gk4.austin.ibm.com (gk4.austin.ibm.com [9.53.33.16]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5RIbsAg011344; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:54 -0400 From: George Kraft To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151408711.7842.10.camel@dhcp-226-143.ireland.sun.com> References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <1151408711.7842.10.camel@dhcp-226-143.ireland.sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: IBM Corp Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:34:50 -0500 Message-Id: <1151433290.6050.21.camel@gk4.austin.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.491 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.491 X-Spam-Level: Cc: xorg@lists.freedesktop.org, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: gk4@austin.ibm.com List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:39:18 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 12:45 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features > just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), > it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic > to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that > as available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it > didn't' look like a lot of code. Carlos, Here is an opportunity to enhance magnification to the existing composite client code. :-) http://lwn.net/Articles/181272/ http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/libcm/src/magnifier.c?rev=1.5&view=log http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-devel-list/2006-April/msg00971.html $ USE_MAGNIFIER=1 metacity --replace & -- George (gk4) From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Tue Jun 27 17:15:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79D343B00CC for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17346-08 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059743B006C for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-06.sun.com ([192.18.39.116]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5RLFK0x017095 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-06.sun.com by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1J00601ENSVJ00@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.23.60] by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1J003FUF1I4M80@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com>; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:16 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carlos_Eduardo_Rodrigues_Di=F3genes?= Message-id: <44A19FE4.3020507@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.544 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Bill Haneman , gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 21:15:58 -0000 Hi Carlos, Excerpting from the end of your e-mail: > Because we must implement a composite manager or embbed magnifier logic > in window-managers. The first will only have good performance in good > computers with good video cards. This is not a big problem, since the > prices are lowering more and more, but we still with a glue code in the > application that can be avoided. The later sounds very terrible to me, > since magnifiers and window-managers are to distinct things. I, like a > magnifier developer don't want to worry in my code with some question > related about window-manager, and I think that the vice-versa is true. > Moreover, a window-manager is a policy while, for me and I think to you > too, the magnifier service is a mechanism. > Magnifiers and Window Managers have been distinct things up until now. But I am not convinced that is necessarily a good thing. I believe the fundamental purpose of magnification software is to enable someone with any of a variety of visual impairments to be able to: a. see what is on the screen b. track specific regions on the screen - either mouse interactions, text caret, keyboard focus, OR other things that may be updating (e.g. multiple "zoom regions", tracking changes to a formula bar in a spreadsheet) c. find things that they want to interact with d. otherwise use the desktop & computer to accomplish the same sorts of things as everyone else Looking at these tasks, basic magnification can accomplish (a). Tracking things (for task (b)) needs the magnifier to be driven by things like at-spi, and a lot of logic to do this is in Gnopernicus & Orca (with more coming over time). But when it comes to (c), there are things that would be nice to do that we haven't really gotten to yet, on any platform. Products like ZoomText and inLARGE had modes to toggle back and forth between unmagnified & magnified views (with a heavy 'border lens' showing where the user was relative to the entire desktop). Gnopernicus has a 'proportional' mode that uses the mouse location on the magnified view to indicate where the mouse is on the entire desktop. But these are really somewhat limited tools. However, some of the things that COMPOSITE gives us, and some of the features in the new window managers, suggest some very interesting new opportunities for helping users find things. For example, why not have the magnifier zoom a specific window to the entire screen? Or zoom a pair of windows to sharing the entire magnified screen? Or overlay some notification information to a portion of an otherwise magnified screen? Such tasks are essentially "window manager" tasks, yet when combined with magnification they can offer some interesting potential improvements for efficiency and productivity for users with vision impairments - rather than relying on a magnifier to do the magnification, and a window manager to hopefully do some of these sorts of things, and try to get the magnifier to try to optimize the end-user result. Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > >> regards, >> >> Bill >> >> >>> If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code >>> in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must >>> track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can >>> generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be >>> showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to >>> maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a >>> good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with >>> composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a >>> big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do >>> this work in older hardware. >>> >>> Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit >>> the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, >>> something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of >>> all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root >>> window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. >>> >>> I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons >>> to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try >>> this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I >>> will start to play. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 09:59:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74633B017A; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14201-04; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (agnus.ngi.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA8D3B01E2; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SDwIwD028281; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:58:18 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvaXC-000293-Dz; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:56:50 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:56:50 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060628135650.GA6628@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.447 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.447 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Probably found the problem with the Italian synthesis X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:59:16 -0000 --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, might be around here: $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language english $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language finnish SIOD ERROR: damaged env : # $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language spanish $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language italian LTS_Ruleset italian_downcase: no rule matches: LTS_Ruleset: # P e r *here* =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD # $ =2E..especially when this comes out of the log of a crashed orca session: # grep SPEECH debug.out |tail SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Grafica menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Up' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Giochi menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Up' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Audio & Video menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Up' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Accessori menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Right' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Alacarte - Editor di men=C3=B9' I'll now try to work on it a bit. In the meantime, I patched audsp in festival to also report the currently playing sample in the playing list. This makes two useful patches that I should start to extract properly and send around, but my main priority is still having a long-lasting Italian speech experience. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEooqi9LSwzHl+v6sRAqtrAJ9y2yxCiWlh3jbH/nxrzqMVyCh9MACghPal qzCsGZJ+BpKwEwJ3zDeEXi8= =FyyJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N-- From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 12:08:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462033B00A7 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19610-06 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7982C3B01CD for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SG7rpH001308; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:07:53 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvcTl-00029Z-Vx; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:01:26 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:01:25 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 16:08:39 -0000 --SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR" Content-Disposition: inline --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, finally, I'm attaching patches: audsp-queue.patch Patch for festival's audsp to also report the currently playing file on (audio_mode 'query) This seems to bring no particular improvement. I suspect that gnopernicus doesn't need the is_speaking function too badly, after all? unclutter.patch Patch for gnome-speech festival driver to send a single, more compact SayText command, and to avoid sending empty strings or string containing only blanks. This is mainly a cosmetic patch. recode.patch Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 instead of utf-8. This fixes the Italian voices! Hooray!! Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="unclutter.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- /home/enrico/src/orig/gnome-speech-0.4.0/drivers/festival/festivalsynth= esisdriver.c 2006-05-14 16:49:21.000000000 +0200 +++ festivalsynthesisdriver.c 2006-06-28 17:43:04.252707768 +0200 @@ -35,6 +35,7 @@ #include #include #include +#include #include "festivalsynthesisdriver.h" #include "festivalspeaker.h" =20 @@ -910,21 +911,29 @@ { gchar *escaped_string; gchar *ptr1, *ptr2; + int spaces_only =3D 1; =20 g_assert (IS_FESTIVAL_SYNTHESIS_DRIVER (d) && IS_FESTIVALSPEAKER (s) && t= ext); =20 - =20 - escaped_string =3D g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1); + + escaped_string =3D g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1+20); + strcpy(escaped_string, "(SayText \""); ptr1 =3D text; - ptr2 =3D escaped_string; + ptr2 =3D escaped_string + strlen(escaped_string); while (ptr1 && *ptr1) { - if (*ptr1 =3D=3D '\"') + if (!isspace(*ptr1)) + spaces_only =3D 0; + if (*ptr1 =3D=3D '\"' || *ptr1 =3D=3D '\\') *ptr2++ =3D '\\'; *ptr2++ =3D *ptr1++; } + *ptr2++ =3D '"'; + *ptr2++ =3D ')'; + *ptr2++ =3D '\r'; + *ptr2++ =3D '\n'; *ptr2 =3D 0; - + =20 /* Refresh if needded */=20 if (d->last_speaker !=3D s || speaker_needs_parameter_refresh (SPE= AKER(s))) { @@ -937,16 +946,15 @@ clb_list_free (d->crt_clbs); d->crt_clbs =3D speaker_get_clb_list (SPEAKER (s)); =20 + if (!spaces_only) + { #ifdef FESTIVAL_DEBUG_TEXT - fprintf (stderr, "\nSENT:\"%s\" from \"%s\"", escaped_string, text); + fprintf (stderr, "\nSENT:\"%s\" from \"%s\"", escaped_string, text); #endif - d->is_speaking =3D TRUE; - d->queue_length =3D 1; - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \""); - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "\")\r\n"); - - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \"\")\r\n"); + d->is_speaking =3D TRUE; + d->queue_length =3D 1; + festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); + } =20 if (escaped_string) g_free (escaped_string); --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="recode.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- festivalsynthesisdriver.c 2006-06-28 17:43:04.252707768 +0200 +++ festivalsynthesisdriver.c.final 2006-06-28 17:41:15.475244456 +0200 @@ -941,6 +941,12 @@ festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, s->voice); speaker_refresh_parameters (SPEAKER(s)); d->last_speaker =3D s; + + if (strcmp(d->last_speaker->voice, "(voice_pc_diphone)\n") =3D=3D 0 + || strcmp(d->last_speaker->voice, "(voice_lp_diphone)\n") =3D=3D 0) + g_io_channel_set_encoding(d->channel_sock, "latin1", NULL); + else + g_io_channel_set_encoding(d->channel_sock, "UTF-8", NULL); } =20 clb_list_free (d->crt_clbs); --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="audsp-queue.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- audsp.cc 2006-06-28 17:46:18.384195296 +0200 +++ /home/enrico/src/festival-1.4.3.enrico/src/main/audsp.cc 2006-06-28 15:= 22:28.162537000 +0200 @@ -104,6 +104,15 @@ static int sp_terminate(void); static void tidy_up(void); =20 +static int no_more_input =3D FALSE; +static CQueue command_queue; +static int child_pid =3D 0; +static EST_String current_file; +static EST_Option play_wave_options; +static int maxqueue =3D 5; +static int pending_close =3D FALSE; +static int kids =3D 0; + void CQueue::push(Command *c) { // Put this item on tail @@ -143,10 +152,18 @@ void CQueue::display(void) const { CQueue_Item *t; - int i; + int i =3D 0; + int len =3D length(); + if (kids > 0) + { + ++len; + ++i; + } =20 - cerr << "Command_queue: " << length() << endl; - for (i=3D0,t=3Dhead; t !=3D 0; t=3Dt->next,i++) + cerr << "Command_queue: " << len << endl; + if (kids > 0) + cerr << " " << 0 << ": " << current_file << endl; + for (t=3Dhead; t !=3D 0; t=3Dt->next,i++) cerr << " " << i << ": " << t->c->file() << endl; } =20 @@ -176,15 +193,6 @@ tail =3D 0; } =20 -static int no_more_input =3D FALSE; -static CQueue command_queue; -static int child_pid =3D 0; -static EST_String current_file; -static EST_Option play_wave_options; -static int maxqueue =3D 5; -static int pending_close =3D FALSE; -static int kids =3D 0; - int main(int argc, char **argv) { =20 --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR-- --SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEoqfV9LSwzHl+v6sRAsloAJ9NSW6Jj7NDEq4ubcRTxEPZkgh6JQCfThZv SWQpep7MnFeaNCNf1HelzvY= =EbZs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Wed Jun 28 13:56:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE1C3B0357 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24930-07 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (nwkea-mail-2.sun.com [192.18.42.14]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C905F3B047B for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5SHtmkv026846 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1L007010B4TM@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:55:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-151.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.151]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1L00D8T0GZ0M@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:55:48 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:57:00 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> To: Enrico Zini , William.Walker@Sun.COM Message-id: <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:56:18 -0000 Hi Enrico: Thanks a bunch for those patches! I have a question about the utf-8/latin1 patch... ... > > recode.patch > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > instead of utf-8. Are you sure this is sufficient? Don't you need to call g_convert in order to convert the strings from the gnome-speech client to latin1 before passing them to the engine? > This fixes the Italian voices! Hooray!! That's great news. But it seems to me that there should be something more general and robust than just checking the voice string, in order to determine the correct encoding which the festival engine/voice expects. Note also that this problem seems to have been introduced on May 14 when Will explicitly changed the encoding on the iochannel from ISO-8859-1 to UTF-8. Will, can you explain why you did that? Bill > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Wed Jun 28 14:05:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A27A93B0365 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25636-01 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-mail-5.sun.com (nwkea-mail-5.sun.com [192.18.42.27]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F7B3B012D for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by nwkea-mail-5.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5SI54u8020652 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1L00A010OB04@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:05:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-151.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.151]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1L00DJG0WF0M@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:05:03 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:06:16 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> To: Enrico Zini Message-id: <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:05:24 -0000 Hi: I found the bug whose patch seems to have introduced the problem Enrico found: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=321216 So it seems a more general/robust method is needed for determining the correct encoding for the output channel. For some voices it's apparently UTF-8, whereas for most european voices it's "latin 1". Presumably some languages may need latin2, etc. instead... Bill On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 17:01, Enrico Zini wrote: > Hello, > > finally, I'm attaching patches: > > audsp-queue.patch > Patch for festival's audsp to also report the currently playing file > on (audio_mode 'query) > > This seems to bring no particular improvement. I suspect that > gnopernicus doesn't need the is_speaking function too badly, after > all? > > unclutter.patch > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver to send a single, more compact > SayText command, and to avoid sending empty strings or string > containing only blanks. > > This is mainly a cosmetic patch. > > recode.patch > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > instead of utf-8. > > This fixes the Italian voices! Hooray!! > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 19:00:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75EF43B0061 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06116-07 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (ns.virtuo.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 156933B0167 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SMxdWk013642; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:59:41 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fvik3-000332-VW; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:42:39 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:42:39 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Bill Haneman Message-ID: <20060628224239.GB7241@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.672 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.766, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.672 X-Spam-Level: Cc: William.Walker@Sun.COM, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:00:07 -0000 --Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 06:57:00PM +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > recode.patch > > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > > instead of utf-8. > Are you sure this is sufficient? Don't you need to call g_convert in > order to convert the strings from the gnome-speech client to latin1 > before passing them to the engine? Yes, it is sufficient, and I tested the patched gnome-speech for quite a while enjoying for the first time a good trip at a spoken OpenOffice, and a nice read of lots of accented characters. I must admit I was surprised myself. Apparently the g_io infrastructure has been designed smartly so that UTF-8 applications can talk with the external world in its many incarnations. > That's great news. But it seems to me that there should be something > more general and robust than just checking the voice string, in order to > determine the correct encoding which the festival engine/voice expects. True. And if one day the italian festival voice will be changed to take utf-8, then gnome-speech will need changing as well. However, I have currently no idea how to query a festival voice for the preferred encoding. Maybe there's a super-simple lisp function for that, and we can get rid of the compiled-in per-voice encoding list. Or, otherwise, it can be not compiled in but read from a config file. > Note also that this problem seems to have been introduced on May 14 when > Will explicitly changed the encoding on the iochannel from ISO-8859-1 to > UTF-8. Will, can you explain why you did that? To me it makes a lot of sense to send out data in UTF-8 by default: I think that it's the italian voice that is broken in this regard. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEowXf9LSwzHl+v6sRAjtfAJ9P4w4g3a91DNRKR+jApNWh1dybCgCeJ0/P M9ToQPSWG7J2ti0P24CSZ+o= =CnPR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a-- From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 19:00:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D7D3B01D5 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06351-03 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (ns.virtuo.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D25603B0077 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SMxtWE013658; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:59:55 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fviq6-00033K-Vn; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:48:55 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:48:54 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Hynek Hanke Message-ID: <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="H8ygTp4AXg6deix2" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.662 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.756, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.662 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Bill Haneman , William.Walker@Sun.COM, zamazal@brailcom.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:00:16 -0000 --H8ygTp4AXg6deix2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, then > you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate functions > and let Festival care about the necessary conversions between encodings. > Encodings can be easily defined by the user in the configuration file, > or can be specified by the author of the voice, as is the case with > festival-czech. It has a dependency on the 'recode' utility. The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" and then communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it will be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because there seems to be a general consensus in moving away from gnome-speech. From what I understand it's currently fine to make fixes to gnome-speech, but a bit too late to do major redesigns. BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from gnome-speech, and since a long time, too. > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the encoding > used for different voices is easily configurable by the user. I think > there is no way how to determine the encoding of a given voice in > Festival automatically (which is of course broken :( ), so giving the > user the power to fix the problem without recompiling anything is very > important. Good point. So, either there's a way to query the preferred encoding to the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should all be read from some external config and not compiled in. There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian speech synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the encoding, or to do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't know enough of Festival to be able to do that. Maybe the festival developers can help here? Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --H8ygTp4AXg6deix2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEowdW9LSwzHl+v6sRAjJXAJ4u8WmGgkpv57JAnp7AqK+Y71qTIgCfTNws P1wIYaoBIws1FHYlsk/kUXs= =Bfg9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --H8ygTp4AXg6deix2-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Wed Jun 28 20:13:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17823B00EC for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09357-09 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9763B3B007D for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5T0CZVT013271 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1L00L01HWDHP@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:12:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-57.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.57]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1L00BMFHWYD3@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:12:35 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:13:48 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> To: Enrico Zini Message-id: <1151540028.7061.22.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.58 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.58 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Hynek Hanke , William.Walker@Sun.COM, zamazal@brailcom.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:13:06 -0000 I think creating some configuration file, like for instance: gnome-speech/festival/voices.config makes sense. That way we can map voices to POSIX locales, which would be very useful, and we can also include info on the voice's string encoding format while we are at it. It's a bit hacky but probably the best solution for now. gnome-speech has some API for asking what locales a voice supports, but in order to implement it better such a config file is needed anyway. It might as well be a simple text format so that users can easily add voices. Bill On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 23:48, Enrico Zini wrote: > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > > > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, then > > you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate functions > > and let Festival care about the necessary conversions between encodings. > > Encodings can be easily defined by the user in the configuration file, > > or can be specified by the author of the voice, as is the case with > > festival-czech. It has a dependency on the 'recode' utility. > > The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" and then > communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it will > be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because there > seems to be a general consensus in moving away from gnome-speech. From > what I understand it's currently fine to make fixes to gnome-speech, but > a bit too late to do major redesigns. > > BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can > understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from gnome-speech, > and since a long time, too. > > > > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the encoding > > used for different voices is easily configurable by the user. I think > > there is no way how to determine the encoding of a given voice in > > Festival automatically (which is of course broken :( ), so giving the > > user the power to fix the problem without recompiling anything is very > > important. > > Good point. So, either there's a way to query the preferred encoding to > the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should all be > read from some external config and not compiled in. > > There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian speech > synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the encoding, or to > do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't know enough of Festival to be > able to do that. Maybe the festival developers can help here? > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From FDMA@once.es Thu Jun 29 02:57:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689E63B0218 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23945-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:57:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx.once.es (mx.once.es [217.149.152.66]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07933B00B2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from omail01.once.org (unknown [172.24.1.51]) by mx.once.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4601C37F8; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:57:48 +0200 (MEST) Received: by OMAIL01.once.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:57:06 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Dorado_Mart=EDnez=2C_Francisco_Javier=22?= To: Bill Haneman , Enrico Zini Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:57:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.581 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.581 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Hynek Hanke , William.Walker@Sun.COM, zamazal@brailcom.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:57:14 -0000 Hi all I would extend this solution to all speech-synthesis-drivers cause no TTS is UTF-8 capable. I have had this problem with dectalk and festival. And the other way, set to the locale We found that in Ubuntu for example, the locale is set to UTF-8 too. LANG='es_ES_UTF-8' Since some voices in Festival seems to work with UTF-8, I think a user setting to set the channel encoding would make sense. Regards Javier. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Bill Haneman [mailto:Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM] > Enviado el: jueves, 29 de junio de 2006 2:14 > Para: Enrico Zini > CC: Hynek Hanke; William.Walker@Sun.COM; > zamazal@brailcom.org; ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com; > gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > Asunto: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza > > > I think creating some configuration file, like for instance: > gnome-speech/festival/voices.config > makes sense. That way we can map voices to POSIX locales, > which would be very useful, and we can also include info on > the voice's string encoding format while we are at it. It's > a bit hacky but probably the best solution for now. > > gnome-speech has some API for asking what locales a voice > supports, but in order to implement it better such a config > file is needed anyway. It might as well be a simple text > format so that users can easily add voices. > > Bill > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 23:48, Enrico Zini wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > > > > > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, > > > then you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate > > > functions and let Festival care about the necessary conversions > > > between encodings. Encodings can be easily defined by the user in > > > the configuration file, or can be specified by the author of the > > > voice, as is the case with festival-czech. It has a dependency on > > > the 'recode' utility. > > > > The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival > -server" and then > > communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it > > will be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because > > there seems to be a general consensus in moving away from > > gnome-speech. From what I understand it's currently fine to make > > fixes to gnome-speech, but a bit too late to do major redesigns. > > > > BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can > > understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from > gnome-speech, > > and since a long time, too. > > > > > > > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the > > > encoding used for different voices is easily configurable by the > > > user. I think there is no way how to determine the encoding of a > > > given voice in Festival automatically (which is of course > broken :( > > > ), so giving the user the power to fix the problem without > > > recompiling anything is very important. > > > > Good point. So, either there's a way to query the > preferred encoding > > to the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should > > all be read from some external config and not compiled in. > > > > There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian > > speech synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the > > encoding, or to do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't > know enough > > of Festival to be able to do that. Maybe the festival > developers can > > help here? > > > > > > Ciao, > > > > Enrico > > > > -- > > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > From hanke@brailcom.org Wed Jun 28 15:24:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E84D93B00E1 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29777-01 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out3.iol.cz (smtp-out3.iol.cz [194.228.2.91]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F2CD3B008A for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from antivir3.iol.cz (avir3 [192.168.30.206]) by smtp-out3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB19E82A3; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (antivir3.iol.cz [127.0.0.1]) by antivir3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id E703E42000D; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp-out3.iol.cz (smtp-out-3.iplanet.iol.cz [192.168.30.28]) by antivir3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D8842000A; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.36] (77.93.broadband2.iol.cz [83.208.93.77]) by smtp-out3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2C43BE49; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Hynek Hanke To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:22:41 +0200 Message-Id: <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at iol.cz X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 03:15:38 -0400 Cc: William.Walker@Sun.COM, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, zamazal@brailcom.org, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:24:50 -0000 Bill Haneman writes v St 28. 06. 2006 v 18:57 +0100: > > recode.patch > > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > > instead of utf-8. > Are you sure this is sufficient? Don't you need to call g_convert in > order to convert the strings from the gnome-speech client to latin1 > before passing them to the engine? >That's great news. But it seems to me that there should be something >more general and robust than just checking the voice string, in order >to determine the correct encoding which the festival engine/voice > expects. > [...] > Note also that this problem seems to have been introduced on May 14 when > Will explicitly changed the encoding on the iochannel from ISO-8859-1 to > UTF-8. Will, can you explain why you did that? Hello, if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, then you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate functions and let Festival care about the necessary conversions between encodings. Encodings can be easily defined by the user in the configuration file, or can be specified by the author of the voice, as is the case with festival-czech. It has a dependency on the 'recode' utility. festival-freebsoft-utils also provide other nice functions (such as partial SSML support) and a coherent API. I'm CCing its developer Milan Zamazal who can answer future questions better than me. If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the encoding used for different voices is easily configurable by the user. I think there is no way how to determine the encoding of a given voice in Festival automatically (which is of course broken :( ), so giving the user the power to fix the problem without recompiling anything is very important. With regards, Hynek Hanke From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Thu Jun 29 05:15:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257113B0371 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32068-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10CCA3B040A for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5T9FYiR027118 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 03:15:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1M00J0171S0L@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:15:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-82.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.82]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1M00DA17226D@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:15:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:16:52 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: To: "\"Dorado =?UTF-8?Q?Mart=C3=ADnez=2C?= Francisco Javier\"" Message-id: <1151572612.7091.6.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.58 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.58 X-Spam-Level: Cc: William.Walker@Sun.COM, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, Hynek Hanke , zamazal@brailcom.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 09:15:57 -0000 Hi Javier: Actually, festival _is_ UTF-8 capable, at least for some voices. The change to use UTF-8 on the festival stream was part of a patch to support an Indian dialect, but unfortunately it seems that the impact on european languages wasn't understood when it was committed. I made a change to the gnome-speech festival driver in April 2005 to use ISO-8859-1 as its encoding, which worked for all the festival european languages which we were aware of at the time. However it didn't work with the Indian language above, thus the patch. I still think ISO-8859-1 might be a better 'default' for the festival driver than UTF-8, since as far as I know none of the european voices expect UTF-8 input. It works for English of course, but perhaps only for ASCII characters! regards Bill On Thu, 2006-06-29 at 07:57, "Dorado Martínez, Francisco Javier" wrote: > Hi all > > I would extend this solution to all speech-synthesis-drivers cause no TTS is > UTF-8 capable. I have had this problem with dectalk and festival. And the > other way, set to the locale We found that in Ubuntu for example, the locale > is set to UTF-8 too. LANG='es_ES_UTF-8' > > Since some voices in Festival seems to work with UTF-8, I think a user > setting to set the channel encoding would make sense. > > Regards > > Javier. > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: Bill Haneman [mailto:Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM] > > Enviado el: jueves, 29 de junio de 2006 2:14 > > Para: Enrico Zini > > CC: Hynek Hanke; William.Walker@Sun.COM; > > zamazal@brailcom.org; ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com; > > gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > Asunto: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza > > > > > > I think creating some configuration file, like for instance: > > gnome-speech/festival/voices.config > > makes sense. That way we can map voices to POSIX locales, > > which would be very useful, and we can also include info on > > the voice's string encoding format while we are at it. It's > > a bit hacky but probably the best solution for now. > > > > gnome-speech has some API for asking what locales a voice > > supports, but in order to implement it better such a config > > file is needed anyway. It might as well be a simple text > > format so that users can easily add voices. > > > > Bill > > > > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 23:48, Enrico Zini wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > > > > > > > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, > > > > then you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate > > > > functions and let Festival care about the necessary conversions > > > > between encodings. Encodings can be easily defined by the user in > > > > the configuration file, or can be specified by the author of the > > > > voice, as is the case with festival-czech. It has a dependency on > > > > the 'recode' utility. > > > > > > The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival > > -server" and then > > > communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it > > > will be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because > > > there seems to be a general consensus in moving away from > > > gnome-speech. From what I understand it's currently fine to make > > > fixes to gnome-speech, but a bit too late to do major redesigns. > > > > > > BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can > > > understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from > > gnome-speech, > > > and since a long time, too. > > > > > > > > > > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the > > > > encoding used for different voices is easily configurable by the > > > > user. I think there is no way how to determine the encoding of a > > > > given voice in Festival automatically (which is of course > > broken :( > > > > ), so giving the user the power to fix the problem without > > > > recompiling anything is very important. > > > > > > Good point. So, either there's a way to query the > > preferred encoding > > > to the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should > > > all be read from some external config and not compiled in. > > > > > > There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian > > > speech synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the > > > encoding, or to do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't > > know enough > > > of Festival to be able to do that. Maybe the festival > > developers can > > > help here? > > > > > > > > > Ciao, > > > > > > Enrico > > > > > > -- > > > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 06:40:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D29A3B020C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04497-06 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09BAC3B00FC for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvtwI-0004cx-Hl for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:40:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:40:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:40:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:39:02 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 48 Message-ID: <87zmfwkzzt.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:dpr5gWF7m2CQe57deFG/X7ghQoI= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.441 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.340, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.441 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:40:11 -0000 >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: EZ> The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" EZ> and then communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how EZ> much effort it will be to convert it to use EZ> festival-freebsoft-utils, Just load it on Festival startup (e.g. in /etc/festival.scm). EZ> And if one day the italian festival voice will be changed to EZ> take utf-8, Italian Festival voice needn't be changed, Festival should be changed itself to support UTF-8. EZ> However, I have currently no idea how to query a festival voice EZ> for the preferred encoding. The festival-freebsoft-utils call is (current-voice-coding) e.g.: festival> (voice_kal_diphone) kal_diphone festival> (current-voice-coding) ISO-8859-1 festival> (voice_czech_ph) czech_ph festival> (current-voice-coding) ISO-8859-2 EZ> To me it makes a lot of sense to send out data in UTF-8 by EZ> default: Yes. EZ> I think that it's the italian voice that is broken in this EZ> regard. No, actually Festival is broken as it doesn't support UTF-8 input, someone should fix it (but I'm afraid it's a non-trivial task). Regards, Milan Zamazal From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Thu Jun 29 06:46:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6D303B0138 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04924-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1490C3B0218 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5TAkeCp014913 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 04:46:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1M00I01B3LIM@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:46:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-82.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.82]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1M00LVLB9UYQ@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:46:42 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:47:55 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <87zmfwkzzt.fsf@zamazal.org> To: Milan Zamazal Message-id: <1151578075.7091.9.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> <87zmfwkzzt.fsf@zamazal.org> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:46:49 -0000 Milan: Thanks for pointing out this festival API (for finding the preferred encoding). I didn't know it existed. It seems to me that the gnome-speech driver should just make the equivalent API call and set the io channel to the festival driver accordingly. That would prevent us from having to make up some kind of config file. regards Bill On Thu, 2006-06-29 at 11:39, Milan Zamazal wrote: > >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: > > EZ> The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" > EZ> and then communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how > EZ> much effort it will be to convert it to use > EZ> festival-freebsoft-utils, > > Just load it on Festival startup (e.g. in /etc/festival.scm). > > EZ> And if one day the italian festival voice will be changed to > EZ> take utf-8, > > Italian Festival voice needn't be changed, Festival should be changed > itself to support UTF-8. > > EZ> However, I have currently no idea how to query a festival voice > EZ> for the preferred encoding. > > The festival-freebsoft-utils call is > > (current-voice-coding) > > e.g.: > > festival> (voice_kal_diphone) > kal_diphone > festival> (current-voice-coding) > ISO-8859-1 > festival> (voice_czech_ph) > czech_ph > festival> (current-voice-coding) > ISO-8859-2 > > EZ> To me it makes a lot of sense to send out data in UTF-8 by > EZ> default: > > Yes. > > EZ> I think that it's the italian voice that is broken in this > EZ> regard. > > No, actually Festival is broken as it doesn't support UTF-8 input, > someone should fix it (but I'm afraid it's a non-trivial task). > > Regards, > > Milan Zamazal > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 06:55:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27B713B02DE for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05272-04 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7DAB3B01B2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvuAo-0000a3-FI for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:53:55 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 51 Message-ID: <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:xyq5D6be7wiyH0v/WllG97UCzOs= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.321 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.220, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.321 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:55:05 -0000 >>>>> "BH" == Bill Haneman writes: BH> So it seems a more general/robust method is needed for BH> determining the correct encoding for the output channel. For BH> some voices it's apparently UTF-8, whereas for most european BH> voices it's "latin 1". Presumably some languages may need BH> latin2, etc. instead... Yes. IMO a reasonable approach is to use the coding declared by the voice and to use ISO-8859-1 if the voice doesn't declare its coding. This is what festival-freebsoft-utils does. Preferably all voices should declare their coding. There's no standard way to do that in Festival; festival-freebsoft-utils introduces just another item in the voice declaration called `coding' for that purpose. It's trivial to add it and it's IMHO better than introducing new configuration options to all the Festival frontends. The festival-freebsoft-utils current-voice-coding function is trivial: (define (current-voice-coding) (or (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice)))) 'ISO-8859-1)) If all you need from festival-freebsoft-utils is this function then there's no need to require the whole festival-freebsoft-utils package to be able to figure out the voice coding. BH> Actually, festival _is_ UTF-8 capable, at least for some voices. It is not. The UTF-8 voices handle the UTF-8 input as a sequence of 8-bit characters. Of course this is far from being comfortable and one can't use many standard Festival functions on such an input. So UTF-8 is used in Festival only for languages which can't represent their character set in an 8-bit coding. Of course, the best way would be to make Festival work with Unicode characters. But I think this is a non-trivial task and apparently nobody works on it. So I'd suggest to use the `coding' voice property workaround described above for now. BH> I still think ISO-8859-1 might be a better 'default' for the BH> festival driver than UTF-8, since as far as I know none of the BH> european voices expect UTF-8 input. Yes. Regards, Milan Zamazal From enrico@enricozini.org Thu Jun 29 10:22:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7911C3B0578 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18271-03 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B93D23B052C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5TEM3eY028650; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:22:03 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvxOy-00087V-OF; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:21:52 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:21:52 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Milan Zamazal Message-ID: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wac7ysb48OaltWcw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.664, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.57 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:22:15 -0000 --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 12:53:55PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote: > Preferably all voices should declare their coding. There's no standard > way to do that in Festival; festival-freebsoft-utils introduces just > another item in the voice declaration called `coding' for that purpose. > It's trivial to add it and it's IMHO better than introducing new > configuration options to all the Festival frontends. > The festival-freebsoft-utils current-voice-coding function is trivial: > (define (current-voice-coding) > (or (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice)))) > 'ISO-8859-1)) > If all you need from festival-freebsoft-utils is this function then > there's no need to require the whole festival-freebsoft-utils package to > be able to figure out the voice coding. I tried, but: festival> (voice_lp_diphone) lp_diphone festival> (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice))) nil So I guess the Italian voice doesn't define that. If you give me a piece of lisp code that adds that definition, I can add it to the Debian and Ubuntu package, and try to push it upstream. With regards to gnome-speech, honoring the encoding seems quite easy. In the function festival_response_sock there is this query: (list 'VOICEDESC:=20 (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) Where %s gets substituted to be the voice name. Besides that maybe is a good idea to refer to parameters by name using assoc rather than by position using nth, it sounds trivial to add another parameter to that and handle it later on. So, if I can get the right help with the LISP code, I can take care of this. Meet me on irc.freenode.net or irc.oftc.net as 'enrico' if you'd like to have a quick session about it. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo+IA9LSwzHl+v6sRAlGPAJ96Nzy2xOcsmeoNJwHixevRz0uNJQCfdXpd fOEYLprvfHa5JEDUAemIt5M= =C4nl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wac7ysb48OaltWcw-- From cerha@brailcom.org Thu Jun 29 11:01:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73EE83B03AE for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21302-07 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gate.brailcom.cz (158-84-244-84.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz [84.244.84.158]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1B6203B0461 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17561 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2006 16:39:40 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.15.2?) (192.168.15.2) by ns.brailcom.xx with SMTP; 29 Jun 2006 16:39:40 +0200 Message-ID: <44A3EB22.9080304@brailcom.org> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:00:50 +0200 From: Tomas Cerha Organization: Brailcom, o.p.s. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, orca-list@gnome.org, speechd@lists.freebsoft.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.085 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.221, BAYES_50=0.001, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.085 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:01:26 -0000 Hello, I would like to announce availability of an EXPERIMENTAL Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca. Please, see http://www.freebsoft.org/~cerha/orca/speech-dispatcher-backend.html for more information. Any feedback is welcome, however, please note that I will not be on-line until July 10. Kindest regards, Tomas -- Brailcom, o.p.s. http://www.brailcom.org Free(b)soft project http://www.freebsoft.org Eurochance project http://eurochance.brailcom.org From enrico@enricozini.org Thu Jun 29 11:03:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C423B042C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21507-07 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (ns2.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE533B03F8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5TF3EOG000406; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:03:15 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fvy2b-0000hI-1R; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:02:49 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:02:48 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Milan Zamazal Message-ID: <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.528 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.622, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.528 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:03:24 -0000 --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 03:21:52PM +0100, Enrico Zini wrote: > So I guess the Italian voice doesn't define that. If you give me a > piece of lisp code that adds that definition, I can add it to the Debian > and Ubuntu package, and try to push it upstream. Found! Happyness: festival> (voice_lp_diphone) lp_diphone festival> (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice))) (coding "ISO-8859-1") Is it ok for it to be defined straight into /usr/share/festival/voices/italian/pc_diphone/festvox/pc_diphone.scm, added at the end like this? (proclaim_voice 'pc_diphone '((language italian) (gender male) (dialect none) (description "This voice provides a Italian male voice using a residual excited LPC diphone synthesis method. The lexicon is provived by a set of letter to sound rules producing pronunciation accents and syllabification. The durations, intonation and prosodic phrasing are minimal but are acceptable for simple examples.") (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) Because if like this is ok, I can upload the new package in Debian and prod the Ubuntu people to pick it up. Not that it would make a big difference since ISO-8859-1 would be a default, but it would set an example for others to follow. BTW, is "coding" a name that comes from some standard or a name that we're inventing right now? Because if we're inventing it right now, then I think I'd prefer "encoding". > (list 'VOICEDESC:=20 > (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) > (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) And I think I can fix this as well: (list 'VOICEDESC: (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) (cadr (assoc 'language (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) (cadr (assoc 'dialect (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) (cadr (assoc 'gender (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) (or (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) "ISO-8859-1")) Now, to properly read and store this data, I have to add an 'encoding' field to GNOME::Speech::VoiceInfo. That would be changing the IDL in gnome-speech. How free am I to do that? What are the side effects of doing it? Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo+uY9LSwzHl+v6sRAhkAAKCQnE/euumT8jec5wt1aZBZFc+uuwCeOHf4 EXCnT/8KVVYD0+fjTfvU59Y= =oiAG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm-- From themuso@themuso.com Thu Jun 29 11:15:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA4E63B03F8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22467-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vscan01.westnet.com.au (vscan01.westnet.com.au [203.10.1.131]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E903B0505 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E678762855 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:18 +0800 (WST) Received: from vscan01.westnet.com.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (vscan01.westnet.com.au [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29279-03 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:18 +0800 (WST) Received: from marlon.yelavich.home (dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au [202.173.132.131]) by vscan01.westnet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id B99C57628A1 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:17 +0800 (WST) Received: (nullmailer pid 26422 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:15:03 -0000 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 01:15:03 +1000 From: Luke Yelavich To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060629151503.GA25557@marlon.yelavich.home> References: <44A3EB22.9080304@brailcom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <44A3EB22.9080304@brailcom.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.422 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.042, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.422 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:15:09 -0000 --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 30, 2006 at 01:00:50AM EST, Tomas Cerha wrote: > Hello, >=20 > I would like to announce availability of an EXPERIMENTAL Speech > Dispatcher backend for Orca. Please, see > http://www.freebsoft.org/~cerha/orca/speech-dispatcher-backend.html for > more information. Any feedback is welcome, however, please note that I > will not be on-line until July 10. Thanks heaps for this. Since Edgy is in development, this will be going=20 straight into the orca package to be included in Edgy. Thanks again. --=20 Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE=20 (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo+53jVefwtBjIM4RAmKKAKDCPHwcbh6r2NazhSnMTcM6AFuuGwCg0x6d kj1qLk5XrsmbxaGJS9fSSSU= =rYjk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb-- From arieltenor@gmail.com Thu Jun 29 11:08:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74D9B3B058F for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:08:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21987-02 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BBE03B0593 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:07:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s15so96609wxc for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.22.6 with SMTP id 6mr3210086wxv; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.67.6 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:07:51 -0500 From: "Ariel Rios" To: "Enrico Zini" In-Reply-To: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.362 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.362 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:19:01 -0400 Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, Milan Zamazal Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:08:06 -0000 > With regards to gnome-speech, honoring the encoding seems quite easy. > In the function festival_response_sock there is this query: > > (list 'VOICEDESC: > (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) > (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) > > Where %s gets substituted to be the voice name. Besides that maybe is a > good idea to refer to parameters by name using assoc rather than by > position using nth, it sounds trivial to add another parameter to that > and handle it later on. I think so. Doing all those nth looks ugly and if you are going to be doing this query constantly it makes sense to the the assoc. > So, if I can get the right help with the LISP code, I can take care of > this. Meet me on irc.freenode.net or irc.oftc.net as 'enrico' if you'd > like to have a quick session about it. I can help with the scheme code. Let me look for you in a minute. ariel From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 11:55:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFD23B00D2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24656-03 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E843B0144 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Fvyr8-0006fP-GC for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:55:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:55:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:53:49 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 65 Message-ID: <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:+80M3HQGRKAuLAbwU4dDIvRgQL0= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.264 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.163, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.264 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:55:09 -0000 >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: EZ> Is it ok for it to be defined straight into EZ> /usr/share/festival/voices/italian/pc_diphone/festvox/pc_diphone.scm, EZ> added at the end like this? EZ> (proclaim_voice EZ> 'pc_diphone EZ> '((language italian) EZ> (gender male) EZ> (dialect none) EZ> (description EZ> "This voice provides a Italian male voice using a EZ> residual excited LPC diphone synthesis method. The lexicon EZ> is provived by a set of letter to sound rules producing pronunciation EZ> accents and syllabification. The durations, intonation and EZ> prosodic phrasing are minimal but are acceptable for simple EZ> examples.") EZ> (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) Yes, except that it's probably better to specify the coding without double quotes: (coding ISO-8859-1) EZ> Because if like this is ok, I can upload the new package in EZ> Debian and prod the Ubuntu people to pick it up. Not that it EZ> would make a big difference since ISO-8859-1 would be a default, EZ> but it would set an example for others to follow. Good idea, thanks! EZ> BTW, is "coding" a name that comes from some standard or a name that EZ> we're inventing right now? I introduced this name in festival-freebsoft-utils. AFAIK it's not used anywhere else and the only voice that declares it is our Czech voice. EZ> Because if we're inventing it right now, then I think I'd prefer EZ> "encoding". Well, I'm not sure which of the two English terms better fits the context. EZ> (list 'VOICEDESC: EZ> (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) EZ> (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) EZ> And I think I can fix this as well: EZ> (list 'VOICEDESC: EZ> (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) EZ> (cadr (assoc 'language (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (cadr (assoc 'dialect (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (cadr (assoc 'gender (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (or EZ> (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> "ISO-8859-1")) Yes, this is the right thing to do. Regards, Milan Zamazal From enrico@enricozini.org Thu Jun 29 12:28:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D09633B034A for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26784-09 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (agnus.ngi.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744AF3B01A9 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5TGRvUj006958; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:27:57 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvzMn-0003yu-E9; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:27:45 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:27:45 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Milan Zamazal Message-ID: <20060629162745.GB480@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="S1BNGpv0yoYahz37" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.492 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.586, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.492 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza (more patch bonanza) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:28:04 -0000 --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/" Content-Disposition: inline --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 05:53:49PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote: > EZ> (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) > Yes, except that it's probably better to specify the coding without > double quotes: (coding ISO-8859-1) Done. I'm not proficient with LISP: what is the difference? > EZ> Because if we're inventing it right now, then I think I'd prefer > EZ> "encoding". > Well, I'm not sure which of the two English terms better fits the > context. 'coding' is ok with me, if it's already used somewhere. > Yes, this is the right thing to do. Good! People, please review the attached patch for gnome-speech to take advantage of the 'coding' attribute. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="recode1.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- festivalsynthesisdriver.c 2006-05-14 15:49:21.000000000 +0100 +++ festivalsynthesisdriver.c.buono 2006-06-29 17:23:25.000000000 +0100 @@ -45,6 +45,8 @@ #undef FESTIVAL_DEBUG_SEND #undef FESTIVAL_DEBUG_TEXT =20 +#define DEFAULT_ENCODING "ISO-8859-1" + static gint text_id =3D 0; static GObjectClass *parent_class; static gboolean festival_server_exists =3D FALSE; @@ -52,6 +54,7 @@ static GSList *driver_list =3D NULL; static GSList *markers_list =3D NULL; static GSList *voices_list =3D NULL; +static GSList *encodings_list =3D NULL; =20 typedef struct { @@ -98,6 +101,37 @@ static void festival_process_text_out (FestivalTextOut *text_out); static void festival_free_list (FestivalSynthesisDriver *d); =20 +static void encoding_set(GNOME_Speech_VoiceInfo* voice, gchar* encoding) +{ + /* First, try to see if we have it already */ + GSList* cur =3D encodings_list; + int len =3D strlen(voice->name); + for ( ; cur !=3D NULL; cur =3D cur->next) + if (strncmp((gchar*)cur->data, voice->name, len) =3D=3D 0) + { + /* If we have it, replace it */ + g_free(cur->data); + cur->data =3D g_strdup_printf("%s:%s", voice->name, encoding); + return; + } + /* Otherwise, insert it */ + encodings_list =3D g_slist_prepend (encodings_list, g_strdup_printf("%s:%= s", voice->name, encoding)); +} + +static gchar* encoding_get(FestivalSpeaker* speaker) +{ + /* Look for the item in the list */ + GSList* cur =3D encodings_list; + int len =3D strlen(speaker->voice); + /* Speaker should be at least "(voice_?)\n" */ + if (len < 10) + return DEFAULT_ENCODING; + for ( ; cur !=3D NULL; cur =3D cur->next) + if (strncmp((gchar*)cur->data, speaker->voice + 7, len - 9) =3D=3D 0) + return (gchar*)cur->data + len - 9 + 1; + /* If not found, default to latin1 */ + return DEFAULT_ENCODING; +} =20 static FestivalTextMarker * festival_text_marker_new () @@ -329,12 +363,19 @@ p =3D strstr (voices[i], ")\n"); if (p !=3D NULL) *p =3D 0;=20 - query_voice_des =3D g_strdup_printf ("(list 'VOICEDESC: " - "(nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) " - "(nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) " - "(nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) " - "(nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))))\n", - voices[i], voices[i], voices[i], voices[i]); + /* Adds an extra nil to help tokenization later */ + query_voice_des =3D g_strdup_printf ( + "(list 'VOICEDESC: " + "(nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) " + "(cadr (assoc 'language (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + "(cadr (assoc 'dialect (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + "(cadr (assoc 'gender (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + "(or " + " (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + " \"" DEFAULT_ENCODING "\") " + "nil)\n", + voices[i], voices[i], voices[i], voices[i], voices[i]); + festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (driver, query_voice_des); voices_waiting_for_description++; g_free (query_voice_des); @@ -349,7 +390,8 @@ voice[1] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[1], "nil") &&=20 voice[2] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[2], "nil") &&=20 voice[3] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[3], "nil") &&=20 - voice[4] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[4], "nil")) + voice[4] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[4], "nil") && + voice[5] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[5], "nil")) { GNOME_Speech_VoiceInfo *new_info; new_info =3D GNOME_Speech_VoiceInfo__alloc (); @@ -360,6 +402,7 @@ else new_info->gender =3D GNOME_Speech_gender_male; voices_list =3D g_slist_append (voices_list, new_info); + encoding_set(new_info, voice[5]); } voices_waiting_for_description--; if (voices_waiting_for_description =3D=3D 0)=20 @@ -932,6 +975,7 @@ festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, s->voice); speaker_refresh_parameters (SPEAKER(s)); d->last_speaker =3D s; + g_io_channel_set_encoding(d->channel_sock, encoding_get(d->last_speak= er), NULL); } =20 clb_list_free (d->crt_clbs); --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/-- --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo/+B9LSwzHl+v6sRAnyPAJ9744vEU1S2Oq/qQevRaK1+GbjZJACfWr4/ dyTACe4V/punjtN0eDQftQI= =i9pI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37-- From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 12:55:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122743B0400 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28305-10 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B473B00D5 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvznC-0000WD-4X for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:55:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:55:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:50:32 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 22 Message-ID: <878xnflxd3.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629162745.GB480@viaza> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:H6u74mUGFPwBjR+c1CCtX3cUt/g= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.23 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.129, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.23 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza (more patch bonanza) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:55:24 -0000 >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: EZ> On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 05:53:49PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote: EZ> (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) >> Yes, except that it's probably better to specify the coding >> without double quotes: (coding ISO-8859-1) EZ> Done. I'm not proficient with LISP: what is the difference? >From the language view, double quoted elements are strings, while those without them are symbols. There is not much difference between strings and symbols in Festival, but it may be good to be consistent with the other voice properties (which are symbols). >From the practical view, symbols are printed without double quotes, i.e. it is slightly easier to read the coding in programs communicating with Festival. Regards, Milan Zamazal From hanke@brailcom.org Thu Jun 29 15:35:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 290343B00D2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05215-04 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out4.iol.cz (smtp-out4.iol.cz [194.228.2.92]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7DB3B00E8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from antivir4.iol.cz (avir4 [192.168.30.209]) by smtp-out4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 832071F8FF5; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (antivir4.iol.cz [127.0.0.1]) by antivir4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 763C6240025; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp-out4.iol.cz (smtp-out-4.iplanet.iol.cz [192.168.30.31]) by antivir4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C0C240024; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.36] (77.93.broadband2.iol.cz [83.208.93.77]) by smtp-out4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D3022AFA2; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Hynek Hanke To: Enrico Zini In-Reply-To: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:34:18 +0200 Message-Id: <1151609659.3329.5.camel@chopin> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at iol.cz X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 03:09:27 -0400 Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, Milan Zamazal Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:35:54 -0000 > So I guess the Italian voice doesn't define that. If you give me a > piece of lisp code that adds that definition, I can add it to the Debian > and Ubuntu package, and try to push it upstream. Would it make sense to also include definitions for the other voices in the list that Gary Cramblitt posted here? With regards, Hynek From mat@moblog.co.uk Fri Jun 30 11:36:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259073B0243 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29142-01 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:36:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lon-mail-1.gradwell.net (lon-mail-1.gradwell.net [193.111.201.125]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1E563B0108 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 83-216-133-187.martin572.adsl.metronet.co.uk ([83.216.133.187] helo=[192.168.0.6] country=GB ident=postmaster#pop3^ninj4*org) by lon-mail-1.gradwell.net with esmtpa (Gradwell gwh-smtpd 1.225) id 44a544d5.1b0.694 for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:35:49 +0100 (envelope-sender ) Message-ID: <44A544D4.6090805@moblog.co.uk> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:35:48 +0100 From: mat User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060405090204000108040309" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 03:04:03 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] mouse wheel scrolling speed X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 15:36:04 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060405090204000108040309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Apologies if this is posted to the wrong list, or if it's already been covered/is pending/is irrelevant (the list archive search page wasn't working when I checked). Mouse wheel scroll speed currently varies (in my distro, Ubuntu Dapper AMD64) between one and three lines, depending on the application. There doesn't seem to be any way to change it, although a very old (2003) forum post on gnomesupport.org suggests it's hard-coded into gtk. For me, this is an accessibility issue - using the mouse wheel is the single most painful aspect of my rsi-stricken computing experience, and being able to set it to scroll a page per click would significantly improve day-to-day computer use. Naturally, as this affects me, I think it's important. In the grand scheme of Gnome Accessibilty (something that has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years), I'm not sure where it would rank. yours, with stiff fingers, -mat brown [ http://moblog.co.uk/blog/mat ] --------------060405090204000108040309 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi,

Apologies if this is posted to the wrong list, or if it's already been covered/is pending/is irrelevant (the list archive search page wasn't working when I checked).

Mouse wheel scroll speed currently varies (in my distro, Ubuntu Dapper AMD64) between one and three lines, depending on the application.  There doesn't seem to be any way to change it, although a very old (2003) forum post on gnomesupport.org suggests it's hard-coded into gtk.

For me, this is an accessibility issue - using the mouse wheel is the single most painful aspect of my rsi-stricken computing experience, and being able to set it to scroll a page per click would significantly improve day-to-day computer use.  Naturally, as this affects me, I think it's important.  In the grand scheme of Gnome Accessibilty (something that has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years), I'm not sure where it would rank.

yours, with stiff fingers,



-mat brown


[ http://moblog.co.uk/blog/mat ]
 --------------060405090204000108040309-- From daniel.cotto@wanadoo.fr Sun Jun 11 06:04:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6394D3B0092 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02487-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.wanadoo.fr (smtp5.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01F9D3B03C2 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mlusine (ACaen-152-1-86-248.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr [86.205.244.248]) by mwinf0512.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id C52861C001EC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:03:11 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060611100311807.C52861C001EC@mwinf0512.orange.fr From: "Daniel COTTO" To: "GnomeAccessibilityDevel" Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:03:13 +0200 Message-ID: <000301c68d3e$407647a0$0b01a8c0@mlusine> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: AcaNPkAWdeh9Cp6AR+uGUqKI+xaBmg== X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.987 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, TW_GD=0.077] X-Spam-Score: 1.987 X-Spam-Level: * Subject: [g-a-devel] Problem using gnopernicus in the latest debian testing release X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:04:07 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 I=92am just upgrading my debian testing and concequently I got the = testing version of brltty (3.7.2-3) and gnopernicus (1.0.4). The gnome version = used is: 2.14. =20 My problem: * I log from gdm and my num-lock is on. * When I use the numpad key, Gnopernicus seem to run the appropriates commands but the corresponding numeric key is sent to the application, = and so, I write this numbers. =20 An illustration: I=92am in the gnome desktop: I hit the 7 key, an =E8 is echoed in the = inputbox. I do the same thing in mozilla, I can see the title bar. =20 Have you an idea ? =20 Thans =20 Daniel =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

I’am just upgrading my debian testing = and concequently I got the testing version of brltty (3.7.2-3) and gnopernicus (1.0.4). = The gnome version used is: 2.14.

 

My problem:

  • I log = from gdm and my num-lock is on.
  • When I = use the numpad key, Gnopernicus seem to run the appropriates commands but the = corresponding numeric key is sent to the application, and so, I write this = numbers.

 

An illustration:

I’am in the gnome desktop: I hit the 7 = key, an =E8 is echoed in the inputbox. I do the same thing in mozilla, I can see the = title bar.

 

Have you an idea = ?

 

Thans

 

Daniel

 

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0-- From mclasen@redhat.com Mon Jun 12 09:40:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C743B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04507-04 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFEE3B00A7 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CDGF34023554 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Received: from mail.boston.redhat.com (mail.boston.redhat.com [172.16.76.12]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CDGF1D021144 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Received: from golem.boston.redhat.com (golem.boston.redhat.com [172.16.80.24]) by mail.boston.redhat.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5CDGFlQ031838 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 From: Matthias Clasen To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Message-Id: <1150118175.15532.6.camel@golem.boston.redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.1 (2.7.1-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.541 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.541 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:40:15 -0000 Are we serious about a11y ? A few weeks ago, I asked about a11y gaps in new GTK+ feature, but I never heard anything back, except from our QA people, who try to use the a11y framework for automated testing. So I finally sat down last night and wrote minimal a11y support for GtkAssistant myself last night. I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. Obviously, that is not happening. I'm tempted to remove the icon view a11y code after 2.10, if nobody steps forward to fix it. Shipping broken code helps nobody... Matthias From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Tue Jun 20 09:58:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 459A33B01B0 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18759-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (imap.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 766BD3B01A8 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NHGK3P7S; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:58:28 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:57:21 -0300 Message-Id: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.784 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.400, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_24_48=0.88, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.784 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:58:27 -0000 Hi guys, I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our community members have in mind about this. If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do this work in older hardware. Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I will start to play. Thanks, --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Tue Jun 20 15:14:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3613B0307 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07651-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F9193B01AB for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.39.120]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5KJER4K002898 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-10.sun.com by d1-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1600601API4100@d1-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.20.7] by d1-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J16001HLAS3X9B0@d1-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:19 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carlos_Eduardo_Rodrigues_Di=F3genes?= Message-id: <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:14:30 -0000 Hi Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues, I believe the cost of new video cards is coming down so rapidly that the best place for most of our magnification investment is around COMPOSITE. Every customer I come in contact with around UNIX accessibility compares what we are doing to the state of the art in Windows commercial software. And users have come to expect this level of quality, and depend upon the efficiency and productivity that is affords them (and are NOT willing to give that up). I agree that to make good use of COMPOSITE, the magnifier must know about most window manager tasks. I think the best way to do this is to build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window manager(s) of our desktop(s). I don't see a lot of value to keeping the magnifier separate from the window manager. All that said, users who don't have the resources for modern graphics cards are an important group, and your idea of an OverlayWindow is an interesting one. I'm curious to see where that investigation goes! Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > Hi guys, > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > community members have in mind about this. > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > this work in older hardware. > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > will start to play. > > Thanks, > From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Tue Jun 20 15:57:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4323B0155 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10359-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (webmail.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A8533B028F for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NHGK3YKV; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:57:10 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: Peter Korn In-Reply-To: <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:55:15 -0300 Message-Id: <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.78 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.396, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_24_48=0.88, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.78 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:57:58 -0000 Hi Peter, On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 12:14 -0700, Peter Korn wrote: > Hi Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues, >=20 > I believe the cost of new video cards is coming down so rapidly that the=20 > best place for most of our magnification investment is around=20 > COMPOSITE. Every customer I come in contact with around UNIX=20 > accessibility compares what we are doing to the state of the art in=20 > Windows commercial software. And users have come to expect this level=20 > of quality, and depend upon the efficiency and productivity that is=20 > affords them (and are NOT willing to give that up). >=20 > I agree that to make good use of COMPOSITE, the magnifier must know=20 > about most window manager tasks. I think the best way to do this is to=20 > build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window=20 > manager(s) of our desktop(s). I don't see a lot of value to keeping the=20 > magnifier separate from the window manager. I think that compiz make something like this, isn't is? There is anyone that is working on this type of support in metacity? There is any documenation/discussion about magnification support in the compositing window manager? I have doubt if build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window manager is really the rigth place. I think that the best, from this scenario, is some sort of cooperation, but how? I think that looking inside compiz could give me some answears. I don't like the idea to merge these two kinds of applications, I think that if we could maintaim they modular, let's maintaim, for me this is the greatest value in keeping the magnifier separate from the window manager. >=20 > All that said, users who don't have the resources for modern graphics=20 > cards are an important group, and your idea of an OverlayWindow is an=20 > interesting one. I'm curious to see where that investigation goes! >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Peter Korn > Accessibility Architect, > Sun Microsystems, Inc. >=20 > > Hi guys, > > > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > community members have in mind about this. > > > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like cod= e > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server ca= n > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have = a > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > this work in older hardware. > > > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents o= f > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reason= s > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > will start to play. > > > > Thanks, > > =20 >=20 --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From gk4@austin.ibm.com Tue Jun 20 16:50:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B2803B082C for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13556-05 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e5.ny.us.ibm.com (e5.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.145]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3983B04FC for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e5.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5KKo21n023832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:03 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.6/NCO/VER7.0) with ESMTP id k5KKo2Qp274726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:02 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k5KKo1uF012475 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:01 -0400 Received: from gk4.austin.ibm.com (gk4.austin.ibm.com [9.53.33.16]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5KKo10H012423; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:01 -0400 From: George Kraft To: "Carlos Eduardo R." =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= In-Reply-To: <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Organization: IBM Corp Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:47:12 -0500 Message-Id: <1150836432.10012.252.camel@gk4.austin.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.489 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.489 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org, Peter Korn Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: gk4@austin.ibm.com List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:50:15 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 16:55 -0300, Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Diógenes wrote: > There is anyone that is working on this type of support in metacity? > There is any documenation/discussion about magnification support in > the compositing window manager? Soren has stubbed in magnification into metacity. I was going to help, but I've been distracted. Also, I've recently published http://xmcm.sourceforge.net/ Best regards, -- George (gk4) From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Wed Jun 21 08:16:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2D63B0F8E for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03259-01 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D253B0F37 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so80985nfe for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.34.19 with SMTP id m19mr514346nfj; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:16:15 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" Sender: skating.tortoise@gmail.com To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7fa2bf341aa83a4f X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.369 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.231, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.369 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:16:19 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From aaronlev@moonset.net Thu Jun 22 09:13:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518E83B06D0 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29197-09 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E822A3B0570 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 22 Jun 2006 09:15:34 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,165,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226576714:sNHT26649024" Message-ID: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:43 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:13:53 -0000 [Trying to send one more time] Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. Make sense? - Aaron From William.Walker@Sun.COM Thu Jun 22 11:23:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DA6B3B0748 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05496-07 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBBD43B06B2 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-05.sun.com ([192.18.108.179]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5MFNqud011876 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1900E01PA33700@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1900AC0PFRVS32@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:50 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Aaron Leventhal Message-id: <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:23:55 -0000 If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to know where the user's current location is in the document, then not emitting this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend upon that as a solution. So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. Thanks! Will On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: > [Trying to send one more time] > > Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For > example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next > item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. > > I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. > Make sense? > > - Aaron > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 13:54:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA773B025B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26527-04 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B6E3B00AD for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 13:56:05 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,162,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226168781:sNHT29208052" Message-ID: <449987C9.3020805@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:17 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.392 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.207, BAYES_40=-0.185] X-Spam-Score: -1.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:07 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:54:22 -0000 Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. Make sense? - Aaron From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 23:30:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07D123B026B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24121-09 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C7B3B014B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 23:31:59 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,164,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226452079:sNHT19593734" Message-ID: <449A0EC2.9050209@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:10 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.542 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.057, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:30 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:30:16 -0000 Resending ... first attempt was apparently not approved by the list moderator: From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 23:30:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9443B02C3 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24103-10 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E213B014B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 23:32:33 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,164,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226452251:sNHT24016468" Message-ID: <449A0EE4.5020200@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:44 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.544 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:30 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:30:50 -0000 Resending ... first attempt was apparently not approved by the list moderator: > Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For > example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next > item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. > I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. > Make sense? - Aaron From aaronlev@moonset.net Fri Jun 23 09:03:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E9A3B07FD for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12466-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (unknown [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AEA53B075C for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2006 09:05:27 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,168,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="227155211:sNHT23078846" Message-ID: <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:33 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Willie Walker References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:03:51 -0000 Will, When the caret is invisible the location has to be considered the current focus. I certainly hope the AT is not depending just on the caret, but is following the focus as well. The point about clicking was that it is just one way this invisible caret is moved. About the only affect the invisible caret has is that the next find command will start finding text from there. - Aaron Willie Walker wrote: > If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to know > where the user's current location is in the document, then not emitting > this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an > option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend > upon that as a solution. > > So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. > > Thanks! > > Will > > On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: > >> [Trying to send one more time] >> >> Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For >> example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next >> item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. >> >> I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. >> Make sense? >> >> - Aaron >> _______________________________________________ >> Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list >> Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel >> > > > From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 10:54:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01C23B088E for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18836-03 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.188]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05CA3B0901 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so91380nfe for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.4.17 with SMTP id g17mr2514299nfi; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:54:14 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" Sender: skating.tortoise@gmail.com To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: f682d046db45120e X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.443 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.157, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.443 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:54:17 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 11:07:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C11ED3B08E6 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19490-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B34AB3B0459 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so93352nfe for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.4.17 with SMTP id g17mr2523841nfi; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:07:39 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:07:44 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From William.Walker@Sun.COM Fri Jun 23 20:07:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D103B0181 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12949-05 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA883B000A for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-06.sun.com ([192.18.108.180]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5O07h9W019563 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1C00C0177J9X00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1C00C5V8CUOG01@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:38 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Aaron Leventhal Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:07:46 -0000 > When the caret is invisible the location has to be considered the > current focus. I certainly hope the AT is not depending just on the > caret, but is following the focus as well. Some classes of AT's, such as a screen reader, care about not only what object has focus, but other information about that object as well. For example, which item(s) are selected in a list, what the value of a slider is, and where the caret is in a text object. Will > > The point about clicking was that it is just one way this invisible > caret is moved. About the only affect the invisible caret has is that > the next find command will start finding text from there. > > - Aaron > > > Willie Walker wrote: >> If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to >> know >> where the user's current location is in the document, then not >> emitting >> this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an >> option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend >> upon that as a solution. >> >> So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Will >> >> On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: >> >>> [Trying to send one more time] >>> >>> Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For >>> example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next >>> item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. >>> >>> I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. >>> Make sense? >>> >>> - Aaron >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list >>> Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org >>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel >>> >> >> >> From enrico@enricozini.org Sat Jun 24 07:13:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0053B02C1; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09160-07; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45FC13B006E; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5OBDf7s005708; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:13:41 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fu64i-0006Mo-Ds; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:13:16 +0100 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:13:16 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ibTvN161/egqYuK8" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Subject: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 11:13:47 -0000 --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I'm trying to look more into the problems I'm having with the speech support on Dapper (see my mail with subject "Fixing brittle speech support on Dapper" from June, 10th, which strangely isn't showing up in the archives at http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/200= 6-June/thread.html). I started reading through gnome-speech source code. I noticed that it runs festival as a server and talks to it. This makes us have a screen reader that talks CORBA to a server that talks TCP/IP to another server who then does the synthesis. That's too many passages in which something can go wrong. Instinctively, I'm considering rewriting the festival driver to using the C API rather than the festival server. The C API of Festival is just as simple as this: http://rafb.net/paste/results/I7trk068.html I'll look into it a bit more, writing some test code to talk to the CORBA festival driver as well as test code for the festival C/C++ API, so that I can gain familiarity with both things. Any reasons why this hasn't been done yet? In the meantime, however, before I hurt my brain too much with this, what's the overall situation? Is it worth the effort of fixing gnome-speech, or is the effort better spend on making something else work? I'm already quite frustrated of not getting any sort of answer on the list for this problem that is getting me totally stuck (and thank Luke Yelavich for mora support on IRC), and I don't know how I would cope if I spent time and effort on this just to hear as soon as I've finished that everyone's moving to speech-dispatcher or some other kind of a totally different technology. If it's not worth spending efforts on gnome-speech, please let me know what I can use to replace it, since it doesn't work for me. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEnR5M9LSwzHl+v6sRAvfXAJ96YsbY8wqms77UDb9GCEEkTBctXgCdHWgz kdeLwfWldHDFD8gNgZRK8LU= =0xvb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ibTvN161/egqYuK8-- From cerha@brailcom.org Mon Jun 26 05:14:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96163B0124 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04277-06 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gate.brailcom.cz (158-84-244-84.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz [84.244.84.158]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B750E3B0174 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11545 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2006 10:52:49 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.15.2?) (192.168.15.2) by ns.brailcom.xx with SMTP; 26 Jun 2006 10:52:49 +0200 Message-ID: <449FA559.1050508@brailcom.org> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:14:01 +0200 From: Tomas Cerha Organization: Brailcom, o.p.s. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org References: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> In-Reply-To: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.463 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.858, BAYES_20=-0.74, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.463 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:14:16 -0000 Enrico Zini wrote: > Hello, > In the meantime, however, before I hurt my brain too much with this, > what's the overall situation? Is it worth the effort of fixing > gnome-speech, or is the effort better spend on making something else > work? Hi Enrico, I'm currently working on Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca. This bypasses the Gnome Speech layer completely. Since Speech Dispatcher offers several speech synthesizers not supported by Gnome Speech, this may be essential for some people and the Orca -> Gnome Speech -> Speech Dispatcher -> synthesizer aproach has inherent problems. This might solve your problem too. Please, see also the common "TTS API" draft at http://www.freebsoft.org/tts-api. This is a common effort of Free Desktop and FSG. Best regards, Tomas -- Brailcom, o.p.s. http://www.brailcom.org Free(b)soft project http://www.freebsoft.org Eurochance project http://eurochance.brailcom.org From enrico@enricozini.org Mon Jun 26 08:44:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCDA03B0387; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18426-01; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FC23B02F7; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5QCihKc011937; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:44:43 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FuqNo-0003eT-1a; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:40:04 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:40:03 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Tomas Cerha Message-ID: <20060626124003.GA13572@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: Tomas Cerha , gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org References: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> <449FA559.1050508@brailcom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <449FA559.1050508@brailcom.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:44:48 -0000 --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 11:14:01AM +0200, Tomas Cerha wrote: > I'm currently working on Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca. This > bypasses the Gnome Speech layer completely. Since Speech Dispatcher > offers several speech synthesizers not supported by Gnome Speech, this > may be essential for some people and the Orca -> Gnome Speech -> Speech > Dispatcher -> synthesizer aproach has inherent problems. This might > solve your problem too. >=20 > Please, see also the common "TTS API" draft at > http://www.freebsoft.org/tts-api. This is a common effort of Free > Desktop and FSG. Cool. Is there a way I can use all of this right now on Dapper? Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEn9Wj9LSwzHl+v6sRAofUAJ9rGqFPNo5F+9EKH1UOKSt32EG0nwCfZZUp 64toiGSrN/swh06OHchQyCY= =hVic -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 10:49:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71B7A3B0124 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:49:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25701-04 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367823B017B for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QEmdiH024863 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:48:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H008012BMA0@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:48:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H008072H345@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:48:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:49:51 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Message-id: <1151333390.7079.11.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:49:02 -0000 Hi Chris: The answer is, "don't implement sticky keys in your keyboard". You should be using the system-wide StickyKeys settings and feature instead (as GOK does). Interfering with the normal operation of the system wide setting (i.e clashing with it as your app does), is itself an accessibility violation. (There are several gconf keys you can use to turn sticky keys on and off - see those under /desktop/gnome/accessibility/keyboard) Bill > I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is > stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way > to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? > > thanks > > > -- > Chris Jones From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 11:35:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AC673B0455 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29080-01 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4549A3B048F for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QFZ73i010232 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:35:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H00E014M3JB@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:35:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H008ZS4MI45@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:35:06 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:36:18 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Message-id: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:35:19 -0000 > Hi guys, > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > community members have in mind about this. Hi Carlos: I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that was available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it didn't' look like a lot of code. I believe that basically we'd just need to use Composite's capability to prune the window tree, separate our magnifier window out, and render only that window to the screen after compositing directly into it. Why is it not that straightforward? I don't understand the problem you seem concerned about... regards, Bill > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > this work in older hardware. > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > will start to play. > > Thanks, From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 11:44:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C4D53B04D3 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29613-10 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6AE53B017D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QFiq8T016353 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:44:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H00I01507Z9@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:44:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H0087R52S45@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:44:52 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:46:03 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: mclasen@redhat.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-id: <1151336763.7079.60.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.578 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.020, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.578 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:44:55 -0000 Hi Matthias: I've been away for a number of weeks as you may know, and have just re-joined this list. > Are we serious about a11y ? Well, are we? You seem to imply here that it's something "those a11y folks" are supposed to do. I don't think it can work that way; if 'we' (i.e. Gnome/Free-Software developers) want accessibility to work, then we all need to share the labor, since it's a big task. > A few weeks ago, I asked about a11y gaps in new GTK+ feature, > but I never heard anything back, except from our QA people, who > try to use the a11y framework for automated testing. > > So I finally sat down last night and wrote minimal a11y > support for GtkAssistant myself last night. Great, that's fantastic! Thanks for doing what I suggest above, i.e. helping make new code accessible as part of the ordinary process of Gnome/GTK+ development. > I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been > broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ > under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. I didn't know there was any a11y code in gtk+ proper yet, usually it's all in gail. Could you explain? > Obviously, that is not happening. Obviously? I don't know about this. > I'm tempted to remove the > icon view a11y code after 2.10, if nobody steps forward to > fix it. Shipping broken code helps nobody... Well, are there bugs against it? Threatening to pull code doesn't help. I'd also like to note that there seemed to be consensus about a year ago that gail should be folded into gtk+ instead of kept as a separate library, because of various maintenance issues. I think that's a great idea. Note that we do desperately need help to maintain gail, since currently the co-maintainer is not really available to work on it and I am spending virtually all of my time on other high-priority accessibility issues. So please help us with patches and bugfixes. Bill > Matthias > From enrico@enricozini.org Mon Jun 26 12:21:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2663B0436 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32045-03 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8A23B03C6 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5QGLRcQ002275 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:21:27 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Futns-0002F5-7C for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:19:12 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:19:12 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060626161912.GA7775@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.459 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.005, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.459 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-speech festival driver problems explained X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:21:31 -0000 --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (sort of) Hi. After studying the (uncommented) festival driver source code, I got to some conclusions: - the Italian speech synthesis doesn't like speaking nothingness: $ festival Festival Speech Synthesis System 1.4.3:release Jan 2003 Copyright (C) University of Edinburgh, 1996-2003. All rights reserved. For details type `(festival_warranty)' festival> (SayText "") # festival> (SayText " ") # festival> (voice_lp_diphone) lp_diphone festival> (SayText " ") SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val festival> (SayText "") SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val festival> - the festival driver sends LOTS of nothingness: festivalsynthesisdriver.c:945: festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \""); festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "\")\r\n"); festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \"\")\r\n"); basically, after every string that is sent, and empty string is sent. Why? No idea. A comment explaining why would really have helped. - festival_synthesis_driver_is_speaking is broken: when festival has only one wave in the audio spooler, it says that the queue is empty. I enabled debugging info in the driver, and every single time it queried the audio queue, it's always been reported empty, even if it was actually speaking. - I tried simplifying the interaction a bit: I got rid of all the (useless) audio queue enquiries and I simplified the way text is sent, sending all in a single bunch: escaped_string =3D g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1+20); strcpy(escaped_string, "(SayText \""); ptr1 =3D text; ptr2 =3D escaped_string + strlen(escaped_string); while (ptr1 && *ptr1) { if (*ptr1 =3D=3D '\"' || *ptr1 =3D=3D '\\') *ptr2++ =3D '\\'; *ptr2++ =3D *ptr1++; } *ptr2++ =3D '"'; *ptr2++ =3D ')'; *ptr2++ =3D '\r'; *ptr2++ =3D '\n'; *ptr2 =3D 0; [...] festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); oh, and I also escaped \ characters, which weren't escaped before (security risk? I didn't investigate).=20 The result was that things were a little bit more stable, but not much. Sound would stop (reliably reproducible by hitting ALT+F1 to go to the panel menu), but switching window with ALT+Tab would usually bring it back. However, sometimes gnopernicus wouldn't read its own menu entries unless one plays with ALT+Tab a bit more. So, it seems that window switching has a therapeutic influence here. When sound stops, what happens is that gnopernicus doesn't send data to the speech driver at all. I suspect that what happens is that the driver status reporting is confusing gnopernicus somehow. I tried to rewrite the festival driver using the festival C++ API instead of the pipeline to a festival server, but got stuck with the audio output: the festival audio scheduler has unreliable status report, and I'd have to implement a queryable and interruptible audio scheduler, which is something I'd spend days doing because I'm not familiar with glib even loops and esd/gstreamer programming. So, problems identified so far: - italian voices hate empty/blank strings - the driver sends lots of empty strings. The errors should be ignored by the server, though. - is_speaking report is unreliable - gnopernicus tends to stop sending data to the festival driver, possibly because of getting confused by the driver status reports. Switching windows seems to shake gnopernicus back to normal. - the way SayText strings are constructed should be improved, see the code snipped above. I'm sorry I didn't pinpoint the problems better, but the festival driver's code is full of enqueuing callbacks into lists and glib event queues, and is hard to follow for me. I would have liked to write the author and work on it together, but it's basically anonymous (it just says "Sun Microsystem"). I tried with orca as well, which seems to be more reliable in sending data to the speech driver, until at some point it caused all my desktop to hung up to the point of needing a CTRL+ALT+Backspace to restart X. I'll now try to work out how to make the festival voices work fine with empty/blank strings. I would be happy if someone can tell me what door to knock regarding the gnome-speech festival driver internals. =20 Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEoAj/9LSwzHl+v6sRAt4uAJ9kfJKR5qeaLfvDLuRLUwoR5mG9fACdEBVL TbENT/HLSKuN2IJDVy1HJhc= =Hi5Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 12:50:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D91D83B009A for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01334-03 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AF063B035F for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QGoQ40028657 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H00L017XYOP@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:50:26 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H00G1I841KL@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:50:26 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:51:37 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060626161912.GA7775@viaza> To: Enrico Zini Message-id: <1151340697.7079.69.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060626161912.GA7775@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_WC=0.077, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-speech festival driver problems explained X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:50:38 -0000 Hi Enrico: I am glad you are getting somewhere with your investigations. Thanks for the detective work. The copyright statement is not usually a helpful place to look if you are asking yourself, "who wrote this"? You might look at viewcvs (cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-speech), you can even get line-by-line attribution on exactly who committed a piece of code to CVS. Also the ChangeLog in the main gnome-speech directory may help you. Will Walker is currently maintaining gnome-speech, though he did not write the festival driver. I believe Remus Draica of BAUM committed a lot of the code which handles callbacks and "completion" notifications. Try rd at baum dot ro. I am pretty sure one reason we didn't use the C API for festival is difficulty with the audio scheduler. Also, note that festival has changed a bit since we first wrote the driver, so possibly some things have changed/broken in the interaction with recent festival versions. It should be easy to strip the "empty" or whitespace strings from the driver, and this seems like a harmless thing to do at least. If you prepare a patch that does this I'd be happy to commit it for you. If orca is working better, you might stick with that, and you may be able to get some assistance from Will Walker (william dot walker at sun dot com). best regards, Bill On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 17:19, Enrico Zini wrote: > (sort of) > > Hi. > > After studying the (uncommented) festival driver source code, I got to > some conclusions: > > - the Italian speech synthesis doesn't like speaking nothingness: > > $ festival > Festival Speech Synthesis System 1.4.3:release Jan 2003 > Copyright (C) University of Edinburgh, 1996-2003. All rights reserved. > For details type `(festival_warranty)' > festival> (SayText "") > # > festival> (SayText " ") > # > festival> (voice_lp_diphone) > lp_diphone > festival> (SayText " ") > SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val > festival> (SayText "") > SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val > festival> > > - the festival driver sends LOTS of nothingness: > > festivalsynthesisdriver.c:945: > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \""); > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "\")\r\n"); > > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \"\")\r\n"); > > basically, after every string that is sent, and empty string is sent. > Why? No idea. A comment explaining why would really have helped. > > - festival_synthesis_driver_is_speaking is broken: when festival has > only one wave in the audio spooler, it says that the queue is empty. > I enabled debugging info in the driver, and every single time it > queried the audio queue, it's always been reported empty, even if it > was actually speaking. > > - I tried simplifying the interaction a bit: I got rid of all the > (useless) audio queue enquiries and I simplified the way text is > sent, sending all in a single bunch: > > escaped_string = g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1+20); > strcpy(escaped_string, "(SayText \""); > ptr1 = text; > ptr2 = escaped_string + strlen(escaped_string); > while (ptr1 && *ptr1) > { > if (*ptr1 == '\"' || *ptr1 == '\\') > *ptr2++ = '\\'; > *ptr2++ = *ptr1++; > } > *ptr2++ = '"'; > *ptr2++ = ')'; > *ptr2++ = '\r'; > *ptr2++ = '\n'; > *ptr2 = 0; > [...] > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); > > oh, and I also escaped \ characters, which weren't escaped before > (security risk? I didn't investigate). > > The result was that things were a little bit more stable, but not much. > Sound would stop (reliably reproducible by hitting ALT+F1 to go to the > panel menu), but switching window with ALT+Tab would usually bring it > back. However, sometimes gnopernicus wouldn't read its own menu entries > unless one plays with ALT+Tab a bit more. So, it seems that window > switching has a therapeutic influence here. > > When sound stops, what happens is that gnopernicus doesn't send data to > the speech driver at all. I suspect that what happens is that the > driver status reporting is confusing gnopernicus somehow. > > I tried to rewrite the festival driver using the festival C++ API > instead of the pipeline to a festival server, but got stuck with the > audio output: the festival audio scheduler has unreliable status report, > and I'd have to implement a queryable and interruptible audio scheduler, > which is something I'd spend days doing because I'm not familiar with > glib even loops and esd/gstreamer programming. > > So, problems identified so far: > > - italian voices hate empty/blank strings > - the driver sends lots of empty strings. The errors should be ignored > by the server, though. > - is_speaking report is unreliable > - gnopernicus tends to stop sending data to the festival driver, > possibly because of getting confused by the driver status reports. > Switching windows seems to shake gnopernicus back to normal. > - the way SayText strings are constructed should be improved, see the > code snipped above. > > I'm sorry I didn't pinpoint the problems better, but the festival > driver's code is full of enqueuing callbacks into lists and glib event > queues, and is hard to follow for me. I would have liked to write the > author and work on it together, but it's basically anonymous (it just > says "Sun Microsystem"). > > I tried with orca as well, which seems to be more reliable in sending > data to the speech driver, until at some point it caused all my desktop > to hung up to the point of needing a CTRL+ALT+Backspace to restart X. > > I'll now try to work out how to make the festival voices work fine with > empty/blank strings. I would be happy if someone can tell me what door > to knock regarding the gnome-speech festival driver internals. > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From mclasen@redhat.com Mon Jun 26 13:00:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A31C3B017D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01856-01 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 886EE3B042D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5QH0JQG020601; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:19 -0400 Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (lacrosse.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.154]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5QH0E5S015427; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:14 -0400 Received: from [172.16.83.129] (vpn83-129.boston.redhat.com [172.16.83.129]) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k5QH0DJb024353; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:14 -0400 From: Matthias Clasen To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151336763.7079.60.camel@linux.site> References: <1151336763.7079.60.camel@linux.site> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:02:29 -0400 Message-Id: <1151341349.3063.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.3 (2.7.3-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.547 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.547 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:00:23 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 16:46 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been > > broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ > > under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. > > I didn't know there was any a11y code in gtk+ proper yet, > usually it's all in gail. Could you explain? The icon view a11y code was already inside GTK+, since we didn't want to expose all the innards that would be required to do the a11y implementation in gail. The original implemenation was done by Padraig, but he is doing other things now, right ? The code needs to be updated to work with the cell renderer based approach that is used in GTK+ >= 2.8. I started to look into that myself, but didn't get very far... > > Obviously, that is not happening. > > Obviously? I don't know about this. > Sorry I the sound of my message was too harsh; I still care about accessibility, obviously :-) Matthias From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Mon Jun 26 13:31:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF943B046C for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03384-09 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:31:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (webmail.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 479AF3B042D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:31:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NP315MWW; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:34:13 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:33:38 -0300 Message-Id: <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.693 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.476, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=1.247, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.693 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:31:39 -0000 Hi Bill, On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 16:36 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > Hi guys, > >=20 > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > community members have in mind about this. >=20 > Hi Carlos: >=20 > I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features= =20 > just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), > it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic=20 > to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that > was available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it=20 > didn't' look like a lot of code. We must emulate some of the window-manager-like features to know about what is happening with the windows, so we can a fine control what must be composed, because without a good use of what we must compose we will push down perfomance. I don't think that it's a premature optimization, because I don't think in it like the right solution. We don't need do duplicate efforts. The xserver can do this work for us so more easy. Moreover, putting this in the xserver we will being creating the mechanisms to improve the gnome-mag, or anyother magnifier, API a lot and with a lot of flexibility and less code. How Composite does the things is more suitable to applications that want to add a eye-kind desktop to the user and low-vision users don't like this, for they the desktop must be the as simple as possible, without effects. They prefer static things. >=20 > I believe that basically we'd just need to use Composite's capability > to prune the window tree, separate our magnifier window out, and=20 > render only that window to the screen after compositing directly > into it. =20 It will so much easy if we can ask a piece of the window, manipulate it like we want (using xrender or any other mechanism/algorithm) and then draw in the magnifier window (the only window that goes to screen memory). The changes to gnome-mag will be minors. >=20 > Why is it not that straightforward? I don't understand the problem=20 > you seem concerned about... Because we must implement a composite manager or embbed magnifier logic in window-managers. The first will only have good performance in good computers with good video cards. This is not a big problem, since the prices are lowering more and more, but we still with a glue code in the application that can be avoided. The later sounds very terrible to me, since magnifiers and window-managers are to distinct things. I, like a magnifier developer don't want to worry in my code with some question related about window-manager, and I think that the vice-versa is true. Moreover, a window-manager is a policy while, for me and I think to you too, the magnifier service is a mechanism. >=20 > regards, >=20 > Bill >=20 > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like cod= e > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server ca= n > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have = a > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > this work in older hardware. > >=20 > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents o= f > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > >=20 > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reason= s > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > will start to play. > >=20 > > Thanks, >=20 --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Tue Jun 27 08:22:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B33353B0072 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:22:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28053-08 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948CC3B0012 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5RBi0V7019064 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 05:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1I00601OHMXN@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:43:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from dhcp-226-143.Ireland.Sun.COM (dhcp-226-143.Ireland.Sun.COM [129.156.226.143]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1I00F8WOLB70@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:43:59 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:45:11 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> To: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?UTF-8?Q?Di=C3=B3genes?= Message-id: <1151408711.7842.10.camel@dhcp-226-143.ireland.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.507 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.091, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.507 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:22:35 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 18:33, Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Diógenes wrote: > Hi Bill, > > On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 16:36 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > > community members have in mind about this. > > > > Hi Carlos: > > > > I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features > > just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), > > it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic > > to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that > > was available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it > > didn't' look like a lot of code. > > We must emulate some of the window-manager-like features to know about > what is happening with the windows, so we can a fine control what must > be composed, because without a good use of what we must compose we will > push down perfomance. I don't think I agree with your assessment. Perhaps you could be more explicit? Why would we need to do more clipping/checking that the existing compositing manager? At most, we would want to keep track of the current magnified viewport. > I don't think that it's a premature optimization, > because I don't think in it like the right solution. We don't need do > duplicate efforts. The xserver can do this work for us so more easy. I don't recommend this - we had extensive discussions with the XServer development community about magnification needs, and Composite is what we got. Writing a new Xserver extension, and getting it accepted, which is what you are proposing, doesn't seem like a reasonable thing to do until we first try to make full use of the new XServer extension that was already written in part to try and solve our magnification issues. regards, Bill > Moreover, putting this in the xserver we will being creating the > mechanisms to improve the gnome-mag, or anyother magnifier, API a lot > and with a lot of flexibility and less code. > > How Composite does the things is more suitable to applications that want > to add a eye-kind desktop to the user and low-vision users don't like > this, for they the desktop must be the as simple as possible, without > effects. They prefer static things. > > > > > I believe that basically we'd just need to use Composite's capability > > to prune the window tree, separate our magnifier window out, and > > render only that window to the screen after compositing directly > > into it. > > It will so much easy if we can ask a piece of the window, manipulate it > like we want (using xrender or any other mechanism/algorithm) and then > draw in the magnifier window (the only window that goes to screen > memory). The changes to gnome-mag will be minors. > > > > > Why is it not that straightforward? I don't understand the problem > > you seem concerned about... > > Because we must implement a composite manager or embbed magnifier logic > in window-managers. The first will only have good performance in good > computers with good video cards. This is not a big problem, since the > prices are lowering more and more, but we still with a glue code in the > application that can be avoided. The later sounds very terrible to me, > since magnifiers and window-managers are to distinct things. I, like a > magnifier developer don't want to worry in my code with some question > related about window-manager, and I think that the vice-versa is true. > Moreover, a window-manager is a policy while, for me and I think to you > too, the magnifier service is a mechanism. > > > > > regards, > > > > Bill > > > > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > > this work in older hardware. > > > > > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > > > > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > > will start to play. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > -- > Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Diógenes > Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From gk4@austin.ibm.com Tue Jun 27 14:39:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36343B0110 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12817-01 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e3.ny.us.ibm.com (e3.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.143]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4BE43B00A6 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5RIbt75014141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:55 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.6/NCO/VER7.0) with ESMTP id k5RIbs2s242296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:54 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k5RIbsX3011385 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:54 -0400 Received: from gk4.austin.ibm.com (gk4.austin.ibm.com [9.53.33.16]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5RIbsAg011344; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:54 -0400 From: George Kraft To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151408711.7842.10.camel@dhcp-226-143.ireland.sun.com> References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <1151408711.7842.10.camel@dhcp-226-143.ireland.sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: IBM Corp Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:34:50 -0500 Message-Id: <1151433290.6050.21.camel@gk4.austin.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.491 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.491 X-Spam-Level: Cc: xorg@lists.freedesktop.org, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: gk4@austin.ibm.com List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:39:18 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 12:45 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features > just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), > it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic > to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that > as available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it > didn't' look like a lot of code. Carlos, Here is an opportunity to enhance magnification to the existing composite client code. :-) http://lwn.net/Articles/181272/ http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/libcm/src/magnifier.c?rev=1.5&view=log http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-devel-list/2006-April/msg00971.html $ USE_MAGNIFIER=1 metacity --replace & -- George (gk4) From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Tue Jun 27 17:15:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79D343B00CC for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17346-08 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059743B006C for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-06.sun.com ([192.18.39.116]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5RLFK0x017095 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-06.sun.com by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1J00601ENSVJ00@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.23.60] by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1J003FUF1I4M80@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com>; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:16 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carlos_Eduardo_Rodrigues_Di=F3genes?= Message-id: <44A19FE4.3020507@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.544 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Bill Haneman , gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 21:15:58 -0000 Hi Carlos, Excerpting from the end of your e-mail: > Because we must implement a composite manager or embbed magnifier logic > in window-managers. The first will only have good performance in good > computers with good video cards. This is not a big problem, since the > prices are lowering more and more, but we still with a glue code in the > application that can be avoided. The later sounds very terrible to me, > since magnifiers and window-managers are to distinct things. I, like a > magnifier developer don't want to worry in my code with some question > related about window-manager, and I think that the vice-versa is true. > Moreover, a window-manager is a policy while, for me and I think to you > too, the magnifier service is a mechanism. > Magnifiers and Window Managers have been distinct things up until now. But I am not convinced that is necessarily a good thing. I believe the fundamental purpose of magnification software is to enable someone with any of a variety of visual impairments to be able to: a. see what is on the screen b. track specific regions on the screen - either mouse interactions, text caret, keyboard focus, OR other things that may be updating (e.g. multiple "zoom regions", tracking changes to a formula bar in a spreadsheet) c. find things that they want to interact with d. otherwise use the desktop & computer to accomplish the same sorts of things as everyone else Looking at these tasks, basic magnification can accomplish (a). Tracking things (for task (b)) needs the magnifier to be driven by things like at-spi, and a lot of logic to do this is in Gnopernicus & Orca (with more coming over time). But when it comes to (c), there are things that would be nice to do that we haven't really gotten to yet, on any platform. Products like ZoomText and inLARGE had modes to toggle back and forth between unmagnified & magnified views (with a heavy 'border lens' showing where the user was relative to the entire desktop). Gnopernicus has a 'proportional' mode that uses the mouse location on the magnified view to indicate where the mouse is on the entire desktop. But these are really somewhat limited tools. However, some of the things that COMPOSITE gives us, and some of the features in the new window managers, suggest some very interesting new opportunities for helping users find things. For example, why not have the magnifier zoom a specific window to the entire screen? Or zoom a pair of windows to sharing the entire magnified screen? Or overlay some notification information to a portion of an otherwise magnified screen? Such tasks are essentially "window manager" tasks, yet when combined with magnification they can offer some interesting potential improvements for efficiency and productivity for users with vision impairments - rather than relying on a magnifier to do the magnification, and a window manager to hopefully do some of these sorts of things, and try to get the magnifier to try to optimize the end-user result. Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > >> regards, >> >> Bill >> >> >>> If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code >>> in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must >>> track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can >>> generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be >>> showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to >>> maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a >>> good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with >>> composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a >>> big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do >>> this work in older hardware. >>> >>> Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit >>> the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, >>> something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of >>> all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root >>> window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. >>> >>> I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons >>> to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try >>> this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I >>> will start to play. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 09:59:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74633B017A; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14201-04; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (agnus.ngi.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA8D3B01E2; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SDwIwD028281; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:58:18 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvaXC-000293-Dz; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:56:50 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:56:50 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060628135650.GA6628@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.447 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.447 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Probably found the problem with the Italian synthesis X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:59:16 -0000 --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, might be around here: $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language english $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language finnish SIOD ERROR: damaged env : # $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language spanish $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language italian LTS_Ruleset italian_downcase: no rule matches: LTS_Ruleset: # P e r *here* =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD # $ =2E..especially when this comes out of the log of a crashed orca session: # grep SPEECH debug.out |tail SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Grafica menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Up' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Giochi menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Up' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Audio & Video menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Up' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Accessori menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Right' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Alacarte - Editor di men=C3=B9' I'll now try to work on it a bit. In the meantime, I patched audsp in festival to also report the currently playing sample in the playing list. This makes two useful patches that I should start to extract properly and send around, but my main priority is still having a long-lasting Italian speech experience. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEooqi9LSwzHl+v6sRAqtrAJ9y2yxCiWlh3jbH/nxrzqMVyCh9MACghPal qzCsGZJ+BpKwEwJ3zDeEXi8= =FyyJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N-- From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 12:08:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462033B00A7 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19610-06 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7982C3B01CD for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SG7rpH001308; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:07:53 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvcTl-00029Z-Vx; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:01:26 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:01:25 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 16:08:39 -0000 --SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR" Content-Disposition: inline --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, finally, I'm attaching patches: audsp-queue.patch Patch for festival's audsp to also report the currently playing file on (audio_mode 'query) This seems to bring no particular improvement. I suspect that gnopernicus doesn't need the is_speaking function too badly, after all? unclutter.patch Patch for gnome-speech festival driver to send a single, more compact SayText command, and to avoid sending empty strings or string containing only blanks. This is mainly a cosmetic patch. recode.patch Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 instead of utf-8. This fixes the Italian voices! Hooray!! Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="unclutter.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- /home/enrico/src/orig/gnome-speech-0.4.0/drivers/festival/festivalsynth= esisdriver.c 2006-05-14 16:49:21.000000000 +0200 +++ festivalsynthesisdriver.c 2006-06-28 17:43:04.252707768 +0200 @@ -35,6 +35,7 @@ #include #include #include +#include #include "festivalsynthesisdriver.h" #include "festivalspeaker.h" =20 @@ -910,21 +911,29 @@ { gchar *escaped_string; gchar *ptr1, *ptr2; + int spaces_only =3D 1; =20 g_assert (IS_FESTIVAL_SYNTHESIS_DRIVER (d) && IS_FESTIVALSPEAKER (s) && t= ext); =20 - =20 - escaped_string =3D g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1); + + escaped_string =3D g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1+20); + strcpy(escaped_string, "(SayText \""); ptr1 =3D text; - ptr2 =3D escaped_string; + ptr2 =3D escaped_string + strlen(escaped_string); while (ptr1 && *ptr1) { - if (*ptr1 =3D=3D '\"') + if (!isspace(*ptr1)) + spaces_only =3D 0; + if (*ptr1 =3D=3D '\"' || *ptr1 =3D=3D '\\') *ptr2++ =3D '\\'; *ptr2++ =3D *ptr1++; } + *ptr2++ =3D '"'; + *ptr2++ =3D ')'; + *ptr2++ =3D '\r'; + *ptr2++ =3D '\n'; *ptr2 =3D 0; - + =20 /* Refresh if needded */=20 if (d->last_speaker !=3D s || speaker_needs_parameter_refresh (SPE= AKER(s))) { @@ -937,16 +946,15 @@ clb_list_free (d->crt_clbs); d->crt_clbs =3D speaker_get_clb_list (SPEAKER (s)); =20 + if (!spaces_only) + { #ifdef FESTIVAL_DEBUG_TEXT - fprintf (stderr, "\nSENT:\"%s\" from \"%s\"", escaped_string, text); + fprintf (stderr, "\nSENT:\"%s\" from \"%s\"", escaped_string, text); #endif - d->is_speaking =3D TRUE; - d->queue_length =3D 1; - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \""); - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "\")\r\n"); - - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \"\")\r\n"); + d->is_speaking =3D TRUE; + d->queue_length =3D 1; + festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); + } =20 if (escaped_string) g_free (escaped_string); --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="recode.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- festivalsynthesisdriver.c 2006-06-28 17:43:04.252707768 +0200 +++ festivalsynthesisdriver.c.final 2006-06-28 17:41:15.475244456 +0200 @@ -941,6 +941,12 @@ festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, s->voice); speaker_refresh_parameters (SPEAKER(s)); d->last_speaker =3D s; + + if (strcmp(d->last_speaker->voice, "(voice_pc_diphone)\n") =3D=3D 0 + || strcmp(d->last_speaker->voice, "(voice_lp_diphone)\n") =3D=3D 0) + g_io_channel_set_encoding(d->channel_sock, "latin1", NULL); + else + g_io_channel_set_encoding(d->channel_sock, "UTF-8", NULL); } =20 clb_list_free (d->crt_clbs); --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="audsp-queue.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- audsp.cc 2006-06-28 17:46:18.384195296 +0200 +++ /home/enrico/src/festival-1.4.3.enrico/src/main/audsp.cc 2006-06-28 15:= 22:28.162537000 +0200 @@ -104,6 +104,15 @@ static int sp_terminate(void); static void tidy_up(void); =20 +static int no_more_input =3D FALSE; +static CQueue command_queue; +static int child_pid =3D 0; +static EST_String current_file; +static EST_Option play_wave_options; +static int maxqueue =3D 5; +static int pending_close =3D FALSE; +static int kids =3D 0; + void CQueue::push(Command *c) { // Put this item on tail @@ -143,10 +152,18 @@ void CQueue::display(void) const { CQueue_Item *t; - int i; + int i =3D 0; + int len =3D length(); + if (kids > 0) + { + ++len; + ++i; + } =20 - cerr << "Command_queue: " << length() << endl; - for (i=3D0,t=3Dhead; t !=3D 0; t=3Dt->next,i++) + cerr << "Command_queue: " << len << endl; + if (kids > 0) + cerr << " " << 0 << ": " << current_file << endl; + for (t=3Dhead; t !=3D 0; t=3Dt->next,i++) cerr << " " << i << ": " << t->c->file() << endl; } =20 @@ -176,15 +193,6 @@ tail =3D 0; } =20 -static int no_more_input =3D FALSE; -static CQueue command_queue; -static int child_pid =3D 0; -static EST_String current_file; -static EST_Option play_wave_options; -static int maxqueue =3D 5; -static int pending_close =3D FALSE; -static int kids =3D 0; - int main(int argc, char **argv) { =20 --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR-- --SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEoqfV9LSwzHl+v6sRAsloAJ9NSW6Jj7NDEq4ubcRTxEPZkgh6JQCfThZv SWQpep7MnFeaNCNf1HelzvY= =EbZs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Wed Jun 28 13:56:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE1C3B0357 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24930-07 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (nwkea-mail-2.sun.com [192.18.42.14]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C905F3B047B for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5SHtmkv026846 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1L007010B4TM@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:55:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-151.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.151]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1L00D8T0GZ0M@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:55:48 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:57:00 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> To: Enrico Zini , William.Walker@Sun.COM Message-id: <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:56:18 -0000 Hi Enrico: Thanks a bunch for those patches! I have a question about the utf-8/latin1 patch... ... > > recode.patch > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > instead of utf-8. Are you sure this is sufficient? Don't you need to call g_convert in order to convert the strings from the gnome-speech client to latin1 before passing them to the engine? > This fixes the Italian voices! Hooray!! That's great news. But it seems to me that there should be something more general and robust than just checking the voice string, in order to determine the correct encoding which the festival engine/voice expects. Note also that this problem seems to have been introduced on May 14 when Will explicitly changed the encoding on the iochannel from ISO-8859-1 to UTF-8. Will, can you explain why you did that? Bill > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Wed Jun 28 14:05:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A27A93B0365 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25636-01 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-mail-5.sun.com (nwkea-mail-5.sun.com [192.18.42.27]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F7B3B012D for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by nwkea-mail-5.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5SI54u8020652 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1L00A010OB04@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:05:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-151.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.151]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1L00DJG0WF0M@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:05:03 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:06:16 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> To: Enrico Zini Message-id: <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:05:24 -0000 Hi: I found the bug whose patch seems to have introduced the problem Enrico found: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=321216 So it seems a more general/robust method is needed for determining the correct encoding for the output channel. For some voices it's apparently UTF-8, whereas for most european voices it's "latin 1". Presumably some languages may need latin2, etc. instead... Bill On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 17:01, Enrico Zini wrote: > Hello, > > finally, I'm attaching patches: > > audsp-queue.patch > Patch for festival's audsp to also report the currently playing file > on (audio_mode 'query) > > This seems to bring no particular improvement. I suspect that > gnopernicus doesn't need the is_speaking function too badly, after > all? > > unclutter.patch > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver to send a single, more compact > SayText command, and to avoid sending empty strings or string > containing only blanks. > > This is mainly a cosmetic patch. > > recode.patch > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > instead of utf-8. > > This fixes the Italian voices! Hooray!! > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 19:00:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75EF43B0061 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06116-07 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (ns.virtuo.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 156933B0167 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SMxdWk013642; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:59:41 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fvik3-000332-VW; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:42:39 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:42:39 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Bill Haneman Message-ID: <20060628224239.GB7241@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.672 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.766, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.672 X-Spam-Level: Cc: William.Walker@Sun.COM, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:00:07 -0000 --Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 06:57:00PM +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > recode.patch > > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > > instead of utf-8. > Are you sure this is sufficient? Don't you need to call g_convert in > order to convert the strings from the gnome-speech client to latin1 > before passing them to the engine? Yes, it is sufficient, and I tested the patched gnome-speech for quite a while enjoying for the first time a good trip at a spoken OpenOffice, and a nice read of lots of accented characters. I must admit I was surprised myself. Apparently the g_io infrastructure has been designed smartly so that UTF-8 applications can talk with the external world in its many incarnations. > That's great news. But it seems to me that there should be something > more general and robust than just checking the voice string, in order to > determine the correct encoding which the festival engine/voice expects. True. And if one day the italian festival voice will be changed to take utf-8, then gnome-speech will need changing as well. However, I have currently no idea how to query a festival voice for the preferred encoding. Maybe there's a super-simple lisp function for that, and we can get rid of the compiled-in per-voice encoding list. Or, otherwise, it can be not compiled in but read from a config file. > Note also that this problem seems to have been introduced on May 14 when > Will explicitly changed the encoding on the iochannel from ISO-8859-1 to > UTF-8. Will, can you explain why you did that? To me it makes a lot of sense to send out data in UTF-8 by default: I think that it's the italian voice that is broken in this regard. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEowXf9LSwzHl+v6sRAjtfAJ9P4w4g3a91DNRKR+jApNWh1dybCgCeJ0/P M9ToQPSWG7J2ti0P24CSZ+o= =CnPR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a-- From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 19:00:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D7D3B01D5 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06351-03 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (ns.virtuo.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D25603B0077 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SMxtWE013658; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:59:55 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fviq6-00033K-Vn; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:48:55 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:48:54 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Hynek Hanke Message-ID: <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="H8ygTp4AXg6deix2" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.662 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.756, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.662 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Bill Haneman , William.Walker@Sun.COM, zamazal@brailcom.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:00:16 -0000 --H8ygTp4AXg6deix2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, then > you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate functions > and let Festival care about the necessary conversions between encodings. > Encodings can be easily defined by the user in the configuration file, > or can be specified by the author of the voice, as is the case with > festival-czech. It has a dependency on the 'recode' utility. The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" and then communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it will be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because there seems to be a general consensus in moving away from gnome-speech. From what I understand it's currently fine to make fixes to gnome-speech, but a bit too late to do major redesigns. BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from gnome-speech, and since a long time, too. > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the encoding > used for different voices is easily configurable by the user. I think > there is no way how to determine the encoding of a given voice in > Festival automatically (which is of course broken :( ), so giving the > user the power to fix the problem without recompiling anything is very > important. Good point. So, either there's a way to query the preferred encoding to the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should all be read from some external config and not compiled in. There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian speech synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the encoding, or to do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't know enough of Festival to be able to do that. Maybe the festival developers can help here? Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --H8ygTp4AXg6deix2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEowdW9LSwzHl+v6sRAjJXAJ4u8WmGgkpv57JAnp7AqK+Y71qTIgCfTNws P1wIYaoBIws1FHYlsk/kUXs= =Bfg9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --H8ygTp4AXg6deix2-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Wed Jun 28 20:13:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17823B00EC for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09357-09 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9763B3B007D for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5T0CZVT013271 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1L00L01HWDHP@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:12:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-57.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.57]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1L00BMFHWYD3@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:12:35 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:13:48 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> To: Enrico Zini Message-id: <1151540028.7061.22.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.58 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.58 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Hynek Hanke , William.Walker@Sun.COM, zamazal@brailcom.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:13:06 -0000 I think creating some configuration file, like for instance: gnome-speech/festival/voices.config makes sense. That way we can map voices to POSIX locales, which would be very useful, and we can also include info on the voice's string encoding format while we are at it. It's a bit hacky but probably the best solution for now. gnome-speech has some API for asking what locales a voice supports, but in order to implement it better such a config file is needed anyway. It might as well be a simple text format so that users can easily add voices. Bill On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 23:48, Enrico Zini wrote: > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > > > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, then > > you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate functions > > and let Festival care about the necessary conversions between encodings. > > Encodings can be easily defined by the user in the configuration file, > > or can be specified by the author of the voice, as is the case with > > festival-czech. It has a dependency on the 'recode' utility. > > The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" and then > communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it will > be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because there > seems to be a general consensus in moving away from gnome-speech. From > what I understand it's currently fine to make fixes to gnome-speech, but > a bit too late to do major redesigns. > > BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can > understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from gnome-speech, > and since a long time, too. > > > > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the encoding > > used for different voices is easily configurable by the user. I think > > there is no way how to determine the encoding of a given voice in > > Festival automatically (which is of course broken :( ), so giving the > > user the power to fix the problem without recompiling anything is very > > important. > > Good point. So, either there's a way to query the preferred encoding to > the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should all be > read from some external config and not compiled in. > > There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian speech > synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the encoding, or to > do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't know enough of Festival to be > able to do that. Maybe the festival developers can help here? > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From FDMA@once.es Thu Jun 29 02:57:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689E63B0218 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23945-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:57:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx.once.es (mx.once.es [217.149.152.66]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07933B00B2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from omail01.once.org (unknown [172.24.1.51]) by mx.once.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4601C37F8; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:57:48 +0200 (MEST) Received: by OMAIL01.once.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:57:06 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Dorado_Mart=EDnez=2C_Francisco_Javier=22?= To: Bill Haneman , Enrico Zini Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:57:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.581 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.581 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Hynek Hanke , William.Walker@Sun.COM, zamazal@brailcom.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:57:14 -0000 Hi all I would extend this solution to all speech-synthesis-drivers cause no TTS is UTF-8 capable. I have had this problem with dectalk and festival. And the other way, set to the locale We found that in Ubuntu for example, the locale is set to UTF-8 too. LANG='es_ES_UTF-8' Since some voices in Festival seems to work with UTF-8, I think a user setting to set the channel encoding would make sense. Regards Javier. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Bill Haneman [mailto:Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM] > Enviado el: jueves, 29 de junio de 2006 2:14 > Para: Enrico Zini > CC: Hynek Hanke; William.Walker@Sun.COM; > zamazal@brailcom.org; ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com; > gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > Asunto: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza > > > I think creating some configuration file, like for instance: > gnome-speech/festival/voices.config > makes sense. That way we can map voices to POSIX locales, > which would be very useful, and we can also include info on > the voice's string encoding format while we are at it. It's > a bit hacky but probably the best solution for now. > > gnome-speech has some API for asking what locales a voice > supports, but in order to implement it better such a config > file is needed anyway. It might as well be a simple text > format so that users can easily add voices. > > Bill > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 23:48, Enrico Zini wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > > > > > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, > > > then you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate > > > functions and let Festival care about the necessary conversions > > > between encodings. Encodings can be easily defined by the user in > > > the configuration file, or can be specified by the author of the > > > voice, as is the case with festival-czech. It has a dependency on > > > the 'recode' utility. > > > > The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival > -server" and then > > communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it > > will be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because > > there seems to be a general consensus in moving away from > > gnome-speech. From what I understand it's currently fine to make > > fixes to gnome-speech, but a bit too late to do major redesigns. > > > > BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can > > understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from > gnome-speech, > > and since a long time, too. > > > > > > > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the > > > encoding used for different voices is easily configurable by the > > > user. I think there is no way how to determine the encoding of a > > > given voice in Festival automatically (which is of course > broken :( > > > ), so giving the user the power to fix the problem without > > > recompiling anything is very important. > > > > Good point. So, either there's a way to query the > preferred encoding > > to the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should > > all be read from some external config and not compiled in. > > > > There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian > > speech synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the > > encoding, or to do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't > know enough > > of Festival to be able to do that. Maybe the festival > developers can > > help here? > > > > > > Ciao, > > > > Enrico > > > > -- > > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > From hanke@brailcom.org Wed Jun 28 15:24:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E84D93B00E1 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29777-01 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out3.iol.cz (smtp-out3.iol.cz [194.228.2.91]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F2CD3B008A for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from antivir3.iol.cz (avir3 [192.168.30.206]) by smtp-out3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB19E82A3; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (antivir3.iol.cz [127.0.0.1]) by antivir3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id E703E42000D; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp-out3.iol.cz (smtp-out-3.iplanet.iol.cz [192.168.30.28]) by antivir3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D8842000A; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.36] (77.93.broadband2.iol.cz [83.208.93.77]) by smtp-out3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2C43BE49; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Hynek Hanke To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:22:41 +0200 Message-Id: <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at iol.cz X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 03:15:38 -0400 Cc: William.Walker@Sun.COM, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, zamazal@brailcom.org, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:24:50 -0000 Bill Haneman writes v St 28. 06. 2006 v 18:57 +0100: > > recode.patch > > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > > instead of utf-8. > Are you sure this is sufficient? Don't you need to call g_convert in > order to convert the strings from the gnome-speech client to latin1 > before passing them to the engine? >That's great news. But it seems to me that there should be something >more general and robust than just checking the voice string, in order >to determine the correct encoding which the festival engine/voice > expects. > [...] > Note also that this problem seems to have been introduced on May 14 when > Will explicitly changed the encoding on the iochannel from ISO-8859-1 to > UTF-8. Will, can you explain why you did that? Hello, if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, then you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate functions and let Festival care about the necessary conversions between encodings. Encodings can be easily defined by the user in the configuration file, or can be specified by the author of the voice, as is the case with festival-czech. It has a dependency on the 'recode' utility. festival-freebsoft-utils also provide other nice functions (such as partial SSML support) and a coherent API. I'm CCing its developer Milan Zamazal who can answer future questions better than me. If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the encoding used for different voices is easily configurable by the user. I think there is no way how to determine the encoding of a given voice in Festival automatically (which is of course broken :( ), so giving the user the power to fix the problem without recompiling anything is very important. With regards, Hynek Hanke From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Thu Jun 29 05:15:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257113B0371 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32068-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10CCA3B040A for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5T9FYiR027118 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 03:15:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1M00J0171S0L@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:15:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-82.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.82]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1M00DA17226D@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:15:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:16:52 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: To: "\"Dorado =?UTF-8?Q?Mart=C3=ADnez=2C?= Francisco Javier\"" Message-id: <1151572612.7091.6.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.58 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.58 X-Spam-Level: Cc: William.Walker@Sun.COM, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, Hynek Hanke , zamazal@brailcom.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 09:15:57 -0000 Hi Javier: Actually, festival _is_ UTF-8 capable, at least for some voices. The change to use UTF-8 on the festival stream was part of a patch to support an Indian dialect, but unfortunately it seems that the impact on european languages wasn't understood when it was committed. I made a change to the gnome-speech festival driver in April 2005 to use ISO-8859-1 as its encoding, which worked for all the festival european languages which we were aware of at the time. However it didn't work with the Indian language above, thus the patch. I still think ISO-8859-1 might be a better 'default' for the festival driver than UTF-8, since as far as I know none of the european voices expect UTF-8 input. It works for English of course, but perhaps only for ASCII characters! regards Bill On Thu, 2006-06-29 at 07:57, "Dorado Martínez, Francisco Javier" wrote: > Hi all > > I would extend this solution to all speech-synthesis-drivers cause no TTS is > UTF-8 capable. I have had this problem with dectalk and festival. And the > other way, set to the locale We found that in Ubuntu for example, the locale > is set to UTF-8 too. LANG='es_ES_UTF-8' > > Since some voices in Festival seems to work with UTF-8, I think a user > setting to set the channel encoding would make sense. > > Regards > > Javier. > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: Bill Haneman [mailto:Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM] > > Enviado el: jueves, 29 de junio de 2006 2:14 > > Para: Enrico Zini > > CC: Hynek Hanke; William.Walker@Sun.COM; > > zamazal@brailcom.org; ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com; > > gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > Asunto: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza > > > > > > I think creating some configuration file, like for instance: > > gnome-speech/festival/voices.config > > makes sense. That way we can map voices to POSIX locales, > > which would be very useful, and we can also include info on > > the voice's string encoding format while we are at it. It's > > a bit hacky but probably the best solution for now. > > > > gnome-speech has some API for asking what locales a voice > > supports, but in order to implement it better such a config > > file is needed anyway. It might as well be a simple text > > format so that users can easily add voices. > > > > Bill > > > > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 23:48, Enrico Zini wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > > > > > > > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, > > > > then you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate > > > > functions and let Festival care about the necessary conversions > > > > between encodings. Encodings can be easily defined by the user in > > > > the configuration file, or can be specified by the author of the > > > > voice, as is the case with festival-czech. It has a dependency on > > > > the 'recode' utility. > > > > > > The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival > > -server" and then > > > communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it > > > will be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because > > > there seems to be a general consensus in moving away from > > > gnome-speech. From what I understand it's currently fine to make > > > fixes to gnome-speech, but a bit too late to do major redesigns. > > > > > > BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can > > > understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from > > gnome-speech, > > > and since a long time, too. > > > > > > > > > > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the > > > > encoding used for different voices is easily configurable by the > > > > user. I think there is no way how to determine the encoding of a > > > > given voice in Festival automatically (which is of course > > broken :( > > > > ), so giving the user the power to fix the problem without > > > > recompiling anything is very important. > > > > > > Good point. So, either there's a way to query the > > preferred encoding > > > to the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should > > > all be read from some external config and not compiled in. > > > > > > There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian > > > speech synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the > > > encoding, or to do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't > > know enough > > > of Festival to be able to do that. Maybe the festival > > developers can > > > help here? > > > > > > > > > Ciao, > > > > > > Enrico > > > > > > -- > > > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 06:40:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D29A3B020C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04497-06 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09BAC3B00FC for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvtwI-0004cx-Hl for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:40:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:40:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:40:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:39:02 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 48 Message-ID: <87zmfwkzzt.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:dpr5gWF7m2CQe57deFG/X7ghQoI= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.441 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.340, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.441 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:40:11 -0000 >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: EZ> The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" EZ> and then communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how EZ> much effort it will be to convert it to use EZ> festival-freebsoft-utils, Just load it on Festival startup (e.g. in /etc/festival.scm). EZ> And if one day the italian festival voice will be changed to EZ> take utf-8, Italian Festival voice needn't be changed, Festival should be changed itself to support UTF-8. EZ> However, I have currently no idea how to query a festival voice EZ> for the preferred encoding. The festival-freebsoft-utils call is (current-voice-coding) e.g.: festival> (voice_kal_diphone) kal_diphone festival> (current-voice-coding) ISO-8859-1 festival> (voice_czech_ph) czech_ph festival> (current-voice-coding) ISO-8859-2 EZ> To me it makes a lot of sense to send out data in UTF-8 by EZ> default: Yes. EZ> I think that it's the italian voice that is broken in this EZ> regard. No, actually Festival is broken as it doesn't support UTF-8 input, someone should fix it (but I'm afraid it's a non-trivial task). Regards, Milan Zamazal From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Thu Jun 29 06:46:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6D303B0138 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04924-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1490C3B0218 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5TAkeCp014913 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 04:46:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1M00I01B3LIM@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:46:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-82.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.82]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1M00LVLB9UYQ@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:46:42 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:47:55 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <87zmfwkzzt.fsf@zamazal.org> To: Milan Zamazal Message-id: <1151578075.7091.9.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> <87zmfwkzzt.fsf@zamazal.org> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:46:49 -0000 Milan: Thanks for pointing out this festival API (for finding the preferred encoding). I didn't know it existed. It seems to me that the gnome-speech driver should just make the equivalent API call and set the io channel to the festival driver accordingly. That would prevent us from having to make up some kind of config file. regards Bill On Thu, 2006-06-29 at 11:39, Milan Zamazal wrote: > >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: > > EZ> The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" > EZ> and then communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how > EZ> much effort it will be to convert it to use > EZ> festival-freebsoft-utils, > > Just load it on Festival startup (e.g. in /etc/festival.scm). > > EZ> And if one day the italian festival voice will be changed to > EZ> take utf-8, > > Italian Festival voice needn't be changed, Festival should be changed > itself to support UTF-8. > > EZ> However, I have currently no idea how to query a festival voice > EZ> for the preferred encoding. > > The festival-freebsoft-utils call is > > (current-voice-coding) > > e.g.: > > festival> (voice_kal_diphone) > kal_diphone > festival> (current-voice-coding) > ISO-8859-1 > festival> (voice_czech_ph) > czech_ph > festival> (current-voice-coding) > ISO-8859-2 > > EZ> To me it makes a lot of sense to send out data in UTF-8 by > EZ> default: > > Yes. > > EZ> I think that it's the italian voice that is broken in this > EZ> regard. > > No, actually Festival is broken as it doesn't support UTF-8 input, > someone should fix it (but I'm afraid it's a non-trivial task). > > Regards, > > Milan Zamazal > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 06:55:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27B713B02DE for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05272-04 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7DAB3B01B2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvuAo-0000a3-FI for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:53:55 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 51 Message-ID: <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:xyq5D6be7wiyH0v/WllG97UCzOs= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.321 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.220, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.321 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:55:05 -0000 >>>>> "BH" == Bill Haneman writes: BH> So it seems a more general/robust method is needed for BH> determining the correct encoding for the output channel. For BH> some voices it's apparently UTF-8, whereas for most european BH> voices it's "latin 1". Presumably some languages may need BH> latin2, etc. instead... Yes. IMO a reasonable approach is to use the coding declared by the voice and to use ISO-8859-1 if the voice doesn't declare its coding. This is what festival-freebsoft-utils does. Preferably all voices should declare their coding. There's no standard way to do that in Festival; festival-freebsoft-utils introduces just another item in the voice declaration called `coding' for that purpose. It's trivial to add it and it's IMHO better than introducing new configuration options to all the Festival frontends. The festival-freebsoft-utils current-voice-coding function is trivial: (define (current-voice-coding) (or (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice)))) 'ISO-8859-1)) If all you need from festival-freebsoft-utils is this function then there's no need to require the whole festival-freebsoft-utils package to be able to figure out the voice coding. BH> Actually, festival _is_ UTF-8 capable, at least for some voices. It is not. The UTF-8 voices handle the UTF-8 input as a sequence of 8-bit characters. Of course this is far from being comfortable and one can't use many standard Festival functions on such an input. So UTF-8 is used in Festival only for languages which can't represent their character set in an 8-bit coding. Of course, the best way would be to make Festival work with Unicode characters. But I think this is a non-trivial task and apparently nobody works on it. So I'd suggest to use the `coding' voice property workaround described above for now. BH> I still think ISO-8859-1 might be a better 'default' for the BH> festival driver than UTF-8, since as far as I know none of the BH> european voices expect UTF-8 input. Yes. Regards, Milan Zamazal From enrico@enricozini.org Thu Jun 29 10:22:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7911C3B0578 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18271-03 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B93D23B052C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5TEM3eY028650; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:22:03 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvxOy-00087V-OF; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:21:52 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:21:52 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Milan Zamazal Message-ID: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wac7ysb48OaltWcw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.664, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.57 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:22:15 -0000 --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 12:53:55PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote: > Preferably all voices should declare their coding. There's no standard > way to do that in Festival; festival-freebsoft-utils introduces just > another item in the voice declaration called `coding' for that purpose. > It's trivial to add it and it's IMHO better than introducing new > configuration options to all the Festival frontends. > The festival-freebsoft-utils current-voice-coding function is trivial: > (define (current-voice-coding) > (or (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice)))) > 'ISO-8859-1)) > If all you need from festival-freebsoft-utils is this function then > there's no need to require the whole festival-freebsoft-utils package to > be able to figure out the voice coding. I tried, but: festival> (voice_lp_diphone) lp_diphone festival> (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice))) nil So I guess the Italian voice doesn't define that. If you give me a piece of lisp code that adds that definition, I can add it to the Debian and Ubuntu package, and try to push it upstream. With regards to gnome-speech, honoring the encoding seems quite easy. In the function festival_response_sock there is this query: (list 'VOICEDESC:=20 (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) Where %s gets substituted to be the voice name. Besides that maybe is a good idea to refer to parameters by name using assoc rather than by position using nth, it sounds trivial to add another parameter to that and handle it later on. So, if I can get the right help with the LISP code, I can take care of this. Meet me on irc.freenode.net or irc.oftc.net as 'enrico' if you'd like to have a quick session about it. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo+IA9LSwzHl+v6sRAlGPAJ96Nzy2xOcsmeoNJwHixevRz0uNJQCfdXpd fOEYLprvfHa5JEDUAemIt5M= =C4nl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wac7ysb48OaltWcw-- From cerha@brailcom.org Thu Jun 29 11:01:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73EE83B03AE for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21302-07 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gate.brailcom.cz (158-84-244-84.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz [84.244.84.158]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1B6203B0461 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17561 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2006 16:39:40 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.15.2?) (192.168.15.2) by ns.brailcom.xx with SMTP; 29 Jun 2006 16:39:40 +0200 Message-ID: <44A3EB22.9080304@brailcom.org> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:00:50 +0200 From: Tomas Cerha Organization: Brailcom, o.p.s. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, orca-list@gnome.org, speechd@lists.freebsoft.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.085 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.221, BAYES_50=0.001, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.085 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:01:26 -0000 Hello, I would like to announce availability of an EXPERIMENTAL Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca. Please, see http://www.freebsoft.org/~cerha/orca/speech-dispatcher-backend.html for more information. Any feedback is welcome, however, please note that I will not be on-line until July 10. Kindest regards, Tomas -- Brailcom, o.p.s. http://www.brailcom.org Free(b)soft project http://www.freebsoft.org Eurochance project http://eurochance.brailcom.org From enrico@enricozini.org Thu Jun 29 11:03:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C423B042C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21507-07 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (ns2.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE533B03F8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5TF3EOG000406; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:03:15 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fvy2b-0000hI-1R; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:02:49 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:02:48 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Milan Zamazal Message-ID: <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.528 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.622, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.528 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:03:24 -0000 --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 03:21:52PM +0100, Enrico Zini wrote: > So I guess the Italian voice doesn't define that. If you give me a > piece of lisp code that adds that definition, I can add it to the Debian > and Ubuntu package, and try to push it upstream. Found! Happyness: festival> (voice_lp_diphone) lp_diphone festival> (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice))) (coding "ISO-8859-1") Is it ok for it to be defined straight into /usr/share/festival/voices/italian/pc_diphone/festvox/pc_diphone.scm, added at the end like this? (proclaim_voice 'pc_diphone '((language italian) (gender male) (dialect none) (description "This voice provides a Italian male voice using a residual excited LPC diphone synthesis method. The lexicon is provived by a set of letter to sound rules producing pronunciation accents and syllabification. The durations, intonation and prosodic phrasing are minimal but are acceptable for simple examples.") (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) Because if like this is ok, I can upload the new package in Debian and prod the Ubuntu people to pick it up. Not that it would make a big difference since ISO-8859-1 would be a default, but it would set an example for others to follow. BTW, is "coding" a name that comes from some standard or a name that we're inventing right now? Because if we're inventing it right now, then I think I'd prefer "encoding". > (list 'VOICEDESC:=20 > (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) > (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) And I think I can fix this as well: (list 'VOICEDESC: (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) (cadr (assoc 'language (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) (cadr (assoc 'dialect (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) (cadr (assoc 'gender (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) (or (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) "ISO-8859-1")) Now, to properly read and store this data, I have to add an 'encoding' field to GNOME::Speech::VoiceInfo. That would be changing the IDL in gnome-speech. How free am I to do that? What are the side effects of doing it? Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo+uY9LSwzHl+v6sRAhkAAKCQnE/euumT8jec5wt1aZBZFc+uuwCeOHf4 EXCnT/8KVVYD0+fjTfvU59Y= =oiAG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm-- From themuso@themuso.com Thu Jun 29 11:15:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA4E63B03F8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22467-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vscan01.westnet.com.au (vscan01.westnet.com.au [203.10.1.131]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E903B0505 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E678762855 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:18 +0800 (WST) Received: from vscan01.westnet.com.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (vscan01.westnet.com.au [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29279-03 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:18 +0800 (WST) Received: from marlon.yelavich.home (dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au [202.173.132.131]) by vscan01.westnet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id B99C57628A1 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:17 +0800 (WST) Received: (nullmailer pid 26422 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:15:03 -0000 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 01:15:03 +1000 From: Luke Yelavich To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060629151503.GA25557@marlon.yelavich.home> References: <44A3EB22.9080304@brailcom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <44A3EB22.9080304@brailcom.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.422 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.042, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.422 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:15:09 -0000 --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 30, 2006 at 01:00:50AM EST, Tomas Cerha wrote: > Hello, >=20 > I would like to announce availability of an EXPERIMENTAL Speech > Dispatcher backend for Orca. Please, see > http://www.freebsoft.org/~cerha/orca/speech-dispatcher-backend.html for > more information. Any feedback is welcome, however, please note that I > will not be on-line until July 10. Thanks heaps for this. Since Edgy is in development, this will be going=20 straight into the orca package to be included in Edgy. Thanks again. --=20 Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE=20 (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo+53jVefwtBjIM4RAmKKAKDCPHwcbh6r2NazhSnMTcM6AFuuGwCg0x6d kj1qLk5XrsmbxaGJS9fSSSU= =rYjk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb-- From arieltenor@gmail.com Thu Jun 29 11:08:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74D9B3B058F for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:08:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21987-02 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BBE03B0593 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:07:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s15so96609wxc for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.22.6 with SMTP id 6mr3210086wxv; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.67.6 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:07:51 -0500 From: "Ariel Rios" To: "Enrico Zini" In-Reply-To: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.362 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.362 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:19:01 -0400 Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, Milan Zamazal Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:08:06 -0000 > With regards to gnome-speech, honoring the encoding seems quite easy. > In the function festival_response_sock there is this query: > > (list 'VOICEDESC: > (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) > (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) > > Where %s gets substituted to be the voice name. Besides that maybe is a > good idea to refer to parameters by name using assoc rather than by > position using nth, it sounds trivial to add another parameter to that > and handle it later on. I think so. Doing all those nth looks ugly and if you are going to be doing this query constantly it makes sense to the the assoc. > So, if I can get the right help with the LISP code, I can take care of > this. Meet me on irc.freenode.net or irc.oftc.net as 'enrico' if you'd > like to have a quick session about it. I can help with the scheme code. Let me look for you in a minute. ariel From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 11:55:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFD23B00D2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24656-03 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E843B0144 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Fvyr8-0006fP-GC for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:55:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:55:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:53:49 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 65 Message-ID: <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:+80M3HQGRKAuLAbwU4dDIvRgQL0= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.264 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.163, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.264 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:55:09 -0000 >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: EZ> Is it ok for it to be defined straight into EZ> /usr/share/festival/voices/italian/pc_diphone/festvox/pc_diphone.scm, EZ> added at the end like this? EZ> (proclaim_voice EZ> 'pc_diphone EZ> '((language italian) EZ> (gender male) EZ> (dialect none) EZ> (description EZ> "This voice provides a Italian male voice using a EZ> residual excited LPC diphone synthesis method. The lexicon EZ> is provived by a set of letter to sound rules producing pronunciation EZ> accents and syllabification. The durations, intonation and EZ> prosodic phrasing are minimal but are acceptable for simple EZ> examples.") EZ> (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) Yes, except that it's probably better to specify the coding without double quotes: (coding ISO-8859-1) EZ> Because if like this is ok, I can upload the new package in EZ> Debian and prod the Ubuntu people to pick it up. Not that it EZ> would make a big difference since ISO-8859-1 would be a default, EZ> but it would set an example for others to follow. Good idea, thanks! EZ> BTW, is "coding" a name that comes from some standard or a name that EZ> we're inventing right now? I introduced this name in festival-freebsoft-utils. AFAIK it's not used anywhere else and the only voice that declares it is our Czech voice. EZ> Because if we're inventing it right now, then I think I'd prefer EZ> "encoding". Well, I'm not sure which of the two English terms better fits the context. EZ> (list 'VOICEDESC: EZ> (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) EZ> (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) EZ> And I think I can fix this as well: EZ> (list 'VOICEDESC: EZ> (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) EZ> (cadr (assoc 'language (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (cadr (assoc 'dialect (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (cadr (assoc 'gender (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (or EZ> (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> "ISO-8859-1")) Yes, this is the right thing to do. Regards, Milan Zamazal From enrico@enricozini.org Thu Jun 29 12:28:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D09633B034A for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26784-09 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (agnus.ngi.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744AF3B01A9 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5TGRvUj006958; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:27:57 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvzMn-0003yu-E9; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:27:45 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:27:45 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Milan Zamazal Message-ID: <20060629162745.GB480@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="S1BNGpv0yoYahz37" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.492 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.586, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.492 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza (more patch bonanza) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:28:04 -0000 --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/" Content-Disposition: inline --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 05:53:49PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote: > EZ> (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) > Yes, except that it's probably better to specify the coding without > double quotes: (coding ISO-8859-1) Done. I'm not proficient with LISP: what is the difference? > EZ> Because if we're inventing it right now, then I think I'd prefer > EZ> "encoding". > Well, I'm not sure which of the two English terms better fits the > context. 'coding' is ok with me, if it's already used somewhere. > Yes, this is the right thing to do. Good! People, please review the attached patch for gnome-speech to take advantage of the 'coding' attribute. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="recode1.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- festivalsynthesisdriver.c 2006-05-14 15:49:21.000000000 +0100 +++ festivalsynthesisdriver.c.buono 2006-06-29 17:23:25.000000000 +0100 @@ -45,6 +45,8 @@ #undef FESTIVAL_DEBUG_SEND #undef FESTIVAL_DEBUG_TEXT =20 +#define DEFAULT_ENCODING "ISO-8859-1" + static gint text_id =3D 0; static GObjectClass *parent_class; static gboolean festival_server_exists =3D FALSE; @@ -52,6 +54,7 @@ static GSList *driver_list =3D NULL; static GSList *markers_list =3D NULL; static GSList *voices_list =3D NULL; +static GSList *encodings_list =3D NULL; =20 typedef struct { @@ -98,6 +101,37 @@ static void festival_process_text_out (FestivalTextOut *text_out); static void festival_free_list (FestivalSynthesisDriver *d); =20 +static void encoding_set(GNOME_Speech_VoiceInfo* voice, gchar* encoding) +{ + /* First, try to see if we have it already */ + GSList* cur =3D encodings_list; + int len =3D strlen(voice->name); + for ( ; cur !=3D NULL; cur =3D cur->next) + if (strncmp((gchar*)cur->data, voice->name, len) =3D=3D 0) + { + /* If we have it, replace it */ + g_free(cur->data); + cur->data =3D g_strdup_printf("%s:%s", voice->name, encoding); + return; + } + /* Otherwise, insert it */ + encodings_list =3D g_slist_prepend (encodings_list, g_strdup_printf("%s:%= s", voice->name, encoding)); +} + +static gchar* encoding_get(FestivalSpeaker* speaker) +{ + /* Look for the item in the list */ + GSList* cur =3D encodings_list; + int len =3D strlen(speaker->voice); + /* Speaker should be at least "(voice_?)\n" */ + if (len < 10) + return DEFAULT_ENCODING; + for ( ; cur !=3D NULL; cur =3D cur->next) + if (strncmp((gchar*)cur->data, speaker->voice + 7, len - 9) =3D=3D 0) + return (gchar*)cur->data + len - 9 + 1; + /* If not found, default to latin1 */ + return DEFAULT_ENCODING; +} =20 static FestivalTextMarker * festival_text_marker_new () @@ -329,12 +363,19 @@ p =3D strstr (voices[i], ")\n"); if (p !=3D NULL) *p =3D 0;=20 - query_voice_des =3D g_strdup_printf ("(list 'VOICEDESC: " - "(nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) " - "(nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) " - "(nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) " - "(nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))))\n", - voices[i], voices[i], voices[i], voices[i]); + /* Adds an extra nil to help tokenization later */ + query_voice_des =3D g_strdup_printf ( + "(list 'VOICEDESC: " + "(nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) " + "(cadr (assoc 'language (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + "(cadr (assoc 'dialect (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + "(cadr (assoc 'gender (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + "(or " + " (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + " \"" DEFAULT_ENCODING "\") " + "nil)\n", + voices[i], voices[i], voices[i], voices[i], voices[i]); + festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (driver, query_voice_des); voices_waiting_for_description++; g_free (query_voice_des); @@ -349,7 +390,8 @@ voice[1] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[1], "nil") &&=20 voice[2] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[2], "nil") &&=20 voice[3] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[3], "nil") &&=20 - voice[4] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[4], "nil")) + voice[4] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[4], "nil") && + voice[5] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[5], "nil")) { GNOME_Speech_VoiceInfo *new_info; new_info =3D GNOME_Speech_VoiceInfo__alloc (); @@ -360,6 +402,7 @@ else new_info->gender =3D GNOME_Speech_gender_male; voices_list =3D g_slist_append (voices_list, new_info); + encoding_set(new_info, voice[5]); } voices_waiting_for_description--; if (voices_waiting_for_description =3D=3D 0)=20 @@ -932,6 +975,7 @@ festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, s->voice); speaker_refresh_parameters (SPEAKER(s)); d->last_speaker =3D s; + g_io_channel_set_encoding(d->channel_sock, encoding_get(d->last_speak= er), NULL); } =20 clb_list_free (d->crt_clbs); --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/-- --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo/+B9LSwzHl+v6sRAnyPAJ9744vEU1S2Oq/qQevRaK1+GbjZJACfWr4/ dyTACe4V/punjtN0eDQftQI= =i9pI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37-- From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 12:55:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122743B0400 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28305-10 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B473B00D5 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvznC-0000WD-4X for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:55:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:55:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:50:32 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 22 Message-ID: <878xnflxd3.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629162745.GB480@viaza> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:H6u74mUGFPwBjR+c1CCtX3cUt/g= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.23 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.129, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.23 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza (more patch bonanza) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:55:24 -0000 >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: EZ> On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 05:53:49PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote: EZ> (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) >> Yes, except that it's probably better to specify the coding >> without double quotes: (coding ISO-8859-1) EZ> Done. I'm not proficient with LISP: what is the difference? >From the language view, double quoted elements are strings, while those without them are symbols. There is not much difference between strings and symbols in Festival, but it may be good to be consistent with the other voice properties (which are symbols). >From the practical view, symbols are printed without double quotes, i.e. it is slightly easier to read the coding in programs communicating with Festival. Regards, Milan Zamazal From hanke@brailcom.org Thu Jun 29 15:35:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 290343B00D2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05215-04 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out4.iol.cz (smtp-out4.iol.cz [194.228.2.92]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7DB3B00E8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from antivir4.iol.cz (avir4 [192.168.30.209]) by smtp-out4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 832071F8FF5; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (antivir4.iol.cz [127.0.0.1]) by antivir4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 763C6240025; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp-out4.iol.cz (smtp-out-4.iplanet.iol.cz [192.168.30.31]) by antivir4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C0C240024; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.36] (77.93.broadband2.iol.cz [83.208.93.77]) by smtp-out4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D3022AFA2; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Hynek Hanke To: Enrico Zini In-Reply-To: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:34:18 +0200 Message-Id: <1151609659.3329.5.camel@chopin> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at iol.cz X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 03:09:27 -0400 Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, Milan Zamazal Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:35:54 -0000 > So I guess the Italian voice doesn't define that. If you give me a > piece of lisp code that adds that definition, I can add it to the Debian > and Ubuntu package, and try to push it upstream. Would it make sense to also include definitions for the other voices in the list that Gary Cramblitt posted here? With regards, Hynek From mat@moblog.co.uk Fri Jun 30 11:36:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259073B0243 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29142-01 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:36:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lon-mail-1.gradwell.net (lon-mail-1.gradwell.net [193.111.201.125]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1E563B0108 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 83-216-133-187.martin572.adsl.metronet.co.uk ([83.216.133.187] helo=[192.168.0.6] country=GB ident=postmaster#pop3^ninj4*org) by lon-mail-1.gradwell.net with esmtpa (Gradwell gwh-smtpd 1.225) id 44a544d5.1b0.694 for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:35:49 +0100 (envelope-sender ) Message-ID: <44A544D4.6090805@moblog.co.uk> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:35:48 +0100 From: mat User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060405090204000108040309" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 03:04:03 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] mouse wheel scrolling speed X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 15:36:04 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060405090204000108040309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Apologies if this is posted to the wrong list, or if it's already been covered/is pending/is irrelevant (the list archive search page wasn't working when I checked). Mouse wheel scroll speed currently varies (in my distro, Ubuntu Dapper AMD64) between one and three lines, depending on the application. There doesn't seem to be any way to change it, although a very old (2003) forum post on gnomesupport.org suggests it's hard-coded into gtk. For me, this is an accessibility issue - using the mouse wheel is the single most painful aspect of my rsi-stricken computing experience, and being able to set it to scroll a page per click would significantly improve day-to-day computer use. Naturally, as this affects me, I think it's important. In the grand scheme of Gnome Accessibilty (something that has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years), I'm not sure where it would rank. yours, with stiff fingers, -mat brown [ http://moblog.co.uk/blog/mat ] --------------060405090204000108040309 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi,

Apologies if this is posted to the wrong list, or if it's already been covered/is pending/is irrelevant (the list archive search page wasn't working when I checked).

Mouse wheel scroll speed currently varies (in my distro, Ubuntu Dapper AMD64) between one and three lines, depending on the application.  There doesn't seem to be any way to change it, although a very old (2003) forum post on gnomesupport.org suggests it's hard-coded into gtk.

For me, this is an accessibility issue - using the mouse wheel is the single most painful aspect of my rsi-stricken computing experience, and being able to set it to scroll a page per click would significantly improve day-to-day computer use.  Naturally, as this affects me, I think it's important.  In the grand scheme of Gnome Accessibilty (something that has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years), I'm not sure where it would rank.

yours, with stiff fingers,



-mat brown


[ http://moblog.co.uk/blog/mat ]
 --------------060405090204000108040309-- From daniel.cotto@wanadoo.fr Sun Jun 11 06:04:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6394D3B0092 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02487-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.wanadoo.fr (smtp5.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01F9D3B03C2 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mlusine (ACaen-152-1-86-248.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr [86.205.244.248]) by mwinf0512.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id C52861C001EC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:03:11 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060611100311807.C52861C001EC@mwinf0512.orange.fr From: "Daniel COTTO" To: "GnomeAccessibilityDevel" Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:03:13 +0200 Message-ID: <000301c68d3e$407647a0$0b01a8c0@mlusine> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: AcaNPkAWdeh9Cp6AR+uGUqKI+xaBmg== X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.987 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, TW_GD=0.077] X-Spam-Score: 1.987 X-Spam-Level: * Subject: [g-a-devel] Problem using gnopernicus in the latest debian testing release X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:04:07 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 I=92am just upgrading my debian testing and concequently I got the = testing version of brltty (3.7.2-3) and gnopernicus (1.0.4). The gnome version = used is: 2.14. =20 My problem: * I log from gdm and my num-lock is on. * When I use the numpad key, Gnopernicus seem to run the appropriates commands but the corresponding numeric key is sent to the application, = and so, I write this numbers. =20 An illustration: I=92am in the gnome desktop: I hit the 7 key, an =E8 is echoed in the = inputbox. I do the same thing in mozilla, I can see the title bar. =20 Have you an idea ? =20 Thans =20 Daniel =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

I’am just upgrading my debian testing = and concequently I got the testing version of brltty (3.7.2-3) and gnopernicus (1.0.4). = The gnome version used is: 2.14.

 

My problem:

  • I log = from gdm and my num-lock is on.
  • When I = use the numpad key, Gnopernicus seem to run the appropriates commands but the = corresponding numeric key is sent to the application, and so, I write this = numbers.

 

An illustration:

I’am in the gnome desktop: I hit the 7 = key, an =E8 is echoed in the inputbox. I do the same thing in mozilla, I can see the = title bar.

 

Have you an idea = ?

 

Thans

 

Daniel

 

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0-- From mclasen@redhat.com Mon Jun 12 09:40:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C743B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04507-04 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFEE3B00A7 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CDGF34023554 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Received: from mail.boston.redhat.com (mail.boston.redhat.com [172.16.76.12]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CDGF1D021144 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Received: from golem.boston.redhat.com (golem.boston.redhat.com [172.16.80.24]) by mail.boston.redhat.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5CDGFlQ031838 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 From: Matthias Clasen To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Message-Id: <1150118175.15532.6.camel@golem.boston.redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.1 (2.7.1-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.541 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.541 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:40:15 -0000 Are we serious about a11y ? A few weeks ago, I asked about a11y gaps in new GTK+ feature, but I never heard anything back, except from our QA people, who try to use the a11y framework for automated testing. So I finally sat down last night and wrote minimal a11y support for GtkAssistant myself last night. I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. Obviously, that is not happening. I'm tempted to remove the icon view a11y code after 2.10, if nobody steps forward to fix it. Shipping broken code helps nobody... Matthias From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Tue Jun 20 09:58:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 459A33B01B0 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18759-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (imap.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 766BD3B01A8 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NHGK3P7S; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:58:28 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:57:21 -0300 Message-Id: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.784 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.400, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_24_48=0.88, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.784 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:58:27 -0000 Hi guys, I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our community members have in mind about this. If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do this work in older hardware. Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I will start to play. Thanks, --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Tue Jun 20 15:14:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3613B0307 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07651-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F9193B01AB for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.39.120]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5KJER4K002898 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-10.sun.com by d1-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1600601API4100@d1-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.20.7] by d1-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J16001HLAS3X9B0@d1-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:19 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carlos_Eduardo_Rodrigues_Di=F3genes?= Message-id: <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:14:30 -0000 Hi Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues, I believe the cost of new video cards is coming down so rapidly that the best place for most of our magnification investment is around COMPOSITE. Every customer I come in contact with around UNIX accessibility compares what we are doing to the state of the art in Windows commercial software. And users have come to expect this level of quality, and depend upon the efficiency and productivity that is affords them (and are NOT willing to give that up). I agree that to make good use of COMPOSITE, the magnifier must know about most window manager tasks. I think the best way to do this is to build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window manager(s) of our desktop(s). I don't see a lot of value to keeping the magnifier separate from the window manager. All that said, users who don't have the resources for modern graphics cards are an important group, and your idea of an OverlayWindow is an interesting one. I'm curious to see where that investigation goes! Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > Hi guys, > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > community members have in mind about this. > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > this work in older hardware. > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > will start to play. > > Thanks, > From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Tue Jun 20 15:57:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4323B0155 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10359-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (webmail.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A8533B028F for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NHGK3YKV; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:57:10 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: Peter Korn In-Reply-To: <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:55:15 -0300 Message-Id: <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.78 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.396, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_24_48=0.88, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.78 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:57:58 -0000 Hi Peter, On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 12:14 -0700, Peter Korn wrote: > Hi Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues, >=20 > I believe the cost of new video cards is coming down so rapidly that the=20 > best place for most of our magnification investment is around=20 > COMPOSITE. Every customer I come in contact with around UNIX=20 > accessibility compares what we are doing to the state of the art in=20 > Windows commercial software. And users have come to expect this level=20 > of quality, and depend upon the efficiency and productivity that is=20 > affords them (and are NOT willing to give that up). >=20 > I agree that to make good use of COMPOSITE, the magnifier must know=20 > about most window manager tasks. I think the best way to do this is to=20 > build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window=20 > manager(s) of our desktop(s). I don't see a lot of value to keeping the=20 > magnifier separate from the window manager. I think that compiz make something like this, isn't is? There is anyone that is working on this type of support in metacity? There is any documenation/discussion about magnification support in the compositing window manager? I have doubt if build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window manager is really the rigth place. I think that the best, from this scenario, is some sort of cooperation, but how? I think that looking inside compiz could give me some answears. I don't like the idea to merge these two kinds of applications, I think that if we could maintaim they modular, let's maintaim, for me this is the greatest value in keeping the magnifier separate from the window manager. >=20 > All that said, users who don't have the resources for modern graphics=20 > cards are an important group, and your idea of an OverlayWindow is an=20 > interesting one. I'm curious to see where that investigation goes! >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Peter Korn > Accessibility Architect, > Sun Microsystems, Inc. >=20 > > Hi guys, > > > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > community members have in mind about this. > > > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like cod= e > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server ca= n > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have = a > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > this work in older hardware. > > > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents o= f > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reason= s > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > will start to play. > > > > Thanks, > > =20 >=20 --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From gk4@austin.ibm.com Tue Jun 20 16:50:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B2803B082C for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13556-05 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e5.ny.us.ibm.com (e5.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.145]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3983B04FC for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e5.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5KKo21n023832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:03 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.6/NCO/VER7.0) with ESMTP id k5KKo2Qp274726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:02 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k5KKo1uF012475 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:01 -0400 Received: from gk4.austin.ibm.com (gk4.austin.ibm.com [9.53.33.16]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5KKo10H012423; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:01 -0400 From: George Kraft To: "Carlos Eduardo R." =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= In-Reply-To: <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Organization: IBM Corp Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:47:12 -0500 Message-Id: <1150836432.10012.252.camel@gk4.austin.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.489 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.489 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org, Peter Korn Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: gk4@austin.ibm.com List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:50:15 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 16:55 -0300, Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues DiĂłgenes wrote: > There is anyone that is working on this type of support in metacity? > There is any documenation/discussion about magnification support in > the compositing window manager? Soren has stubbed in magnification into metacity. I was going to help, but I've been distracted. Also, I've recently published http://xmcm.sourceforge.net/ Best regards, -- George (gk4) From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Wed Jun 21 08:16:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2D63B0F8E for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03259-01 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D253B0F37 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so80985nfe for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.34.19 with SMTP id m19mr514346nfj; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:16:15 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" Sender: skating.tortoise@gmail.com To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7fa2bf341aa83a4f X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.369 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.231, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.369 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:16:19 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From aaronlev@moonset.net Thu Jun 22 09:13:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518E83B06D0 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29197-09 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E822A3B0570 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 22 Jun 2006 09:15:34 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,165,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226576714:sNHT26649024" Message-ID: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:43 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:13:53 -0000 [Trying to send one more time] Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. Make sense? - Aaron From William.Walker@Sun.COM Thu Jun 22 11:23:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DA6B3B0748 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05496-07 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBBD43B06B2 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-05.sun.com ([192.18.108.179]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5MFNqud011876 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1900E01PA33700@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1900AC0PFRVS32@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:50 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Aaron Leventhal Message-id: <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:23:55 -0000 If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to know where the user's current location is in the document, then not emitting this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend upon that as a solution. So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. Thanks! Will On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: > [Trying to send one more time] > > Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For > example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next > item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. > > I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. > Make sense? > > - Aaron > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 13:54:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA773B025B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26527-04 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B6E3B00AD for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 13:56:05 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,162,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226168781:sNHT29208052" Message-ID: <449987C9.3020805@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:17 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.392 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.207, BAYES_40=-0.185] X-Spam-Score: -1.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:07 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:54:22 -0000 Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. Make sense? - Aaron From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 23:30:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07D123B026B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24121-09 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C7B3B014B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 23:31:59 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,164,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226452079:sNHT19593734" Message-ID: <449A0EC2.9050209@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:10 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.542 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.057, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:30 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:30:16 -0000 Resending ... first attempt was apparently not approved by the list moderator: From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 23:30:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9443B02C3 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24103-10 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E213B014B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 23:32:33 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,164,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226452251:sNHT24016468" Message-ID: <449A0EE4.5020200@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:44 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.544 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:30 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:30:50 -0000 Resending ... first attempt was apparently not approved by the list moderator: > Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For > example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next > item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. > I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. > Make sense? - Aaron From aaronlev@moonset.net Fri Jun 23 09:03:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E9A3B07FD for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12466-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (unknown [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AEA53B075C for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2006 09:05:27 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,168,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="227155211:sNHT23078846" Message-ID: <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:33 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Willie Walker References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:03:51 -0000 Will, When the caret is invisible the location has to be considered the current focus. I certainly hope the AT is not depending just on the caret, but is following the focus as well. The point about clicking was that it is just one way this invisible caret is moved. About the only affect the invisible caret has is that the next find command will start finding text from there. - Aaron Willie Walker wrote: > If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to know > where the user's current location is in the document, then not emitting > this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an > option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend > upon that as a solution. > > So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. > > Thanks! > > Will > > On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: > >> [Trying to send one more time] >> >> Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For >> example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next >> item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. >> >> I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. >> Make sense? >> >> - Aaron >> _______________________________________________ >> Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list >> Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel >> > > > From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 10:54:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01C23B088E for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18836-03 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.188]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05CA3B0901 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so91380nfe for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.4.17 with SMTP id g17mr2514299nfi; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:54:14 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" Sender: skating.tortoise@gmail.com To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: f682d046db45120e X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.443 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.157, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.443 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:54:17 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 11:07:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C11ED3B08E6 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19490-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B34AB3B0459 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so93352nfe for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.4.17 with SMTP id g17mr2523841nfi; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:07:39 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:07:44 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From William.Walker@Sun.COM Fri Jun 23 20:07:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D103B0181 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12949-05 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA883B000A for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-06.sun.com ([192.18.108.180]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5O07h9W019563 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1C00C0177J9X00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1C00C5V8CUOG01@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:38 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Aaron Leventhal Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:07:46 -0000 > When the caret is invisible the location has to be considered the > current focus. I certainly hope the AT is not depending just on the > caret, but is following the focus as well. Some classes of AT's, such as a screen reader, care about not only what object has focus, but other information about that object as well. For example, which item(s) are selected in a list, what the value of a slider is, and where the caret is in a text object. Will > > The point about clicking was that it is just one way this invisible > caret is moved. About the only affect the invisible caret has is that > the next find command will start finding text from there. > > - Aaron > > > Willie Walker wrote: >> If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to >> know >> where the user's current location is in the document, then not >> emitting >> this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an >> option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend >> upon that as a solution. >> >> So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Will >> >> On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: >> >>> [Trying to send one more time] >>> >>> Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For >>> example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next >>> item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. >>> >>> I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. >>> Make sense? >>> >>> - Aaron >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list >>> Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org >>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel >>> >> >> >> From enrico@enricozini.org Sat Jun 24 07:13:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0053B02C1; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09160-07; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45FC13B006E; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5OBDf7s005708; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:13:41 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fu64i-0006Mo-Ds; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:13:16 +0100 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:13:16 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ibTvN161/egqYuK8" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Subject: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 11:13:47 -0000 --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I'm trying to look more into the problems I'm having with the speech support on Dapper (see my mail with subject "Fixing brittle speech support on Dapper" from June, 10th, which strangely isn't showing up in the archives at http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/200= 6-June/thread.html). I started reading through gnome-speech source code. I noticed that it runs festival as a server and talks to it. This makes us have a screen reader that talks CORBA to a server that talks TCP/IP to another server who then does the synthesis. That's too many passages in which something can go wrong. Instinctively, I'm considering rewriting the festival driver to using the C API rather than the festival server. The C API of Festival is just as simple as this: http://rafb.net/paste/results/I7trk068.html I'll look into it a bit more, writing some test code to talk to the CORBA festival driver as well as test code for the festival C/C++ API, so that I can gain familiarity with both things. Any reasons why this hasn't been done yet? In the meantime, however, before I hurt my brain too much with this, what's the overall situation? Is it worth the effort of fixing gnome-speech, or is the effort better spend on making something else work? I'm already quite frustrated of not getting any sort of answer on the list for this problem that is getting me totally stuck (and thank Luke Yelavich for mora support on IRC), and I don't know how I would cope if I spent time and effort on this just to hear as soon as I've finished that everyone's moving to speech-dispatcher or some other kind of a totally different technology. If it's not worth spending efforts on gnome-speech, please let me know what I can use to replace it, since it doesn't work for me. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEnR5M9LSwzHl+v6sRAvfXAJ96YsbY8wqms77UDb9GCEEkTBctXgCdHWgz kdeLwfWldHDFD8gNgZRK8LU= =0xvb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ibTvN161/egqYuK8-- From cerha@brailcom.org Mon Jun 26 05:14:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96163B0124 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04277-06 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gate.brailcom.cz (158-84-244-84.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz [84.244.84.158]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B750E3B0174 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11545 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2006 10:52:49 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.15.2?) (192.168.15.2) by ns.brailcom.xx with SMTP; 26 Jun 2006 10:52:49 +0200 Message-ID: <449FA559.1050508@brailcom.org> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:14:01 +0200 From: Tomas Cerha Organization: Brailcom, o.p.s. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org References: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> In-Reply-To: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.463 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.858, BAYES_20=-0.74, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.463 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:14:16 -0000 Enrico Zini wrote: > Hello, > In the meantime, however, before I hurt my brain too much with this, > what's the overall situation? Is it worth the effort of fixing > gnome-speech, or is the effort better spend on making something else > work? Hi Enrico, I'm currently working on Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca. This bypasses the Gnome Speech layer completely. Since Speech Dispatcher offers several speech synthesizers not supported by Gnome Speech, this may be essential for some people and the Orca -> Gnome Speech -> Speech Dispatcher -> synthesizer aproach has inherent problems. This might solve your problem too. Please, see also the common "TTS API" draft at http://www.freebsoft.org/tts-api. This is a common effort of Free Desktop and FSG. Best regards, Tomas -- Brailcom, o.p.s. http://www.brailcom.org Free(b)soft project http://www.freebsoft.org Eurochance project http://eurochance.brailcom.org From enrico@enricozini.org Mon Jun 26 08:44:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCDA03B0387; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18426-01; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FC23B02F7; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5QCihKc011937; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:44:43 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FuqNo-0003eT-1a; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:40:04 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:40:03 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Tomas Cerha Message-ID: <20060626124003.GA13572@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: Tomas Cerha , gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org References: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> <449FA559.1050508@brailcom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <449FA559.1050508@brailcom.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:44:48 -0000 --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 11:14:01AM +0200, Tomas Cerha wrote: > I'm currently working on Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca. This > bypasses the Gnome Speech layer completely. Since Speech Dispatcher > offers several speech synthesizers not supported by Gnome Speech, this > may be essential for some people and the Orca -> Gnome Speech -> Speech > Dispatcher -> synthesizer aproach has inherent problems. This might > solve your problem too. >=20 > Please, see also the common "TTS API" draft at > http://www.freebsoft.org/tts-api. This is a common effort of Free > Desktop and FSG. Cool. Is there a way I can use all of this right now on Dapper? Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEn9Wj9LSwzHl+v6sRAofUAJ9rGqFPNo5F+9EKH1UOKSt32EG0nwCfZZUp 64toiGSrN/swh06OHchQyCY= =hVic -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 10:49:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71B7A3B0124 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:49:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25701-04 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367823B017B for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QEmdiH024863 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:48:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H008012BMA0@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:48:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H008072H345@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:48:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:49:51 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Message-id: <1151333390.7079.11.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:49:02 -0000 Hi Chris: The answer is, "don't implement sticky keys in your keyboard". You should be using the system-wide StickyKeys settings and feature instead (as GOK does). Interfering with the normal operation of the system wide setting (i.e clashing with it as your app does), is itself an accessibility violation. (There are several gconf keys you can use to turn sticky keys on and off - see those under /desktop/gnome/accessibility/keyboard) Bill > I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is > stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way > to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? > > thanks > > > -- > Chris Jones From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 11:35:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AC673B0455 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29080-01 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4549A3B048F for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QFZ73i010232 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:35:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H00E014M3JB@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:35:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H008ZS4MI45@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:35:06 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:36:18 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Message-id: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:35:19 -0000 > Hi guys, > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > community members have in mind about this. Hi Carlos: I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that was available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it didn't' look like a lot of code. I believe that basically we'd just need to use Composite's capability to prune the window tree, separate our magnifier window out, and render only that window to the screen after compositing directly into it. Why is it not that straightforward? I don't understand the problem you seem concerned about... regards, Bill > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > this work in older hardware. > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > will start to play. > > Thanks, From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 11:44:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C4D53B04D3 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29613-10 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6AE53B017D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QFiq8T016353 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:44:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H00I01507Z9@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:44:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H0087R52S45@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:44:52 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:46:03 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: mclasen@redhat.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-id: <1151336763.7079.60.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.578 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.020, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.578 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:44:55 -0000 Hi Matthias: I've been away for a number of weeks as you may know, and have just re-joined this list. > Are we serious about a11y ? Well, are we? You seem to imply here that it's something "those a11y folks" are supposed to do. I don't think it can work that way; if 'we' (i.e. Gnome/Free-Software developers) want accessibility to work, then we all need to share the labor, since it's a big task. > A few weeks ago, I asked about a11y gaps in new GTK+ feature, > but I never heard anything back, except from our QA people, who > try to use the a11y framework for automated testing. > > So I finally sat down last night and wrote minimal a11y > support for GtkAssistant myself last night. Great, that's fantastic! Thanks for doing what I suggest above, i.e. helping make new code accessible as part of the ordinary process of Gnome/GTK+ development. > I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been > broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ > under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. I didn't know there was any a11y code in gtk+ proper yet, usually it's all in gail. Could you explain? > Obviously, that is not happening. Obviously? I don't know about this. > I'm tempted to remove the > icon view a11y code after 2.10, if nobody steps forward to > fix it. Shipping broken code helps nobody... Well, are there bugs against it? Threatening to pull code doesn't help. I'd also like to note that there seemed to be consensus about a year ago that gail should be folded into gtk+ instead of kept as a separate library, because of various maintenance issues. I think that's a great idea. Note that we do desperately need help to maintain gail, since currently the co-maintainer is not really available to work on it and I am spending virtually all of my time on other high-priority accessibility issues. So please help us with patches and bugfixes. Bill > Matthias > From enrico@enricozini.org Mon Jun 26 12:21:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2663B0436 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32045-03 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8A23B03C6 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5QGLRcQ002275 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:21:27 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Futns-0002F5-7C for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:19:12 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:19:12 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060626161912.GA7775@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.459 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.005, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.459 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-speech festival driver problems explained X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:21:31 -0000 --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (sort of) Hi. After studying the (uncommented) festival driver source code, I got to some conclusions: - the Italian speech synthesis doesn't like speaking nothingness: $ festival Festival Speech Synthesis System 1.4.3:release Jan 2003 Copyright (C) University of Edinburgh, 1996-2003. All rights reserved. For details type `(festival_warranty)' festival> (SayText "") # festival> (SayText " ") # festival> (voice_lp_diphone) lp_diphone festival> (SayText " ") SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val festival> (SayText "") SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val festival> - the festival driver sends LOTS of nothingness: festivalsynthesisdriver.c:945: festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \""); festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "\")\r\n"); festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \"\")\r\n"); basically, after every string that is sent, and empty string is sent. Why? No idea. A comment explaining why would really have helped. - festival_synthesis_driver_is_speaking is broken: when festival has only one wave in the audio spooler, it says that the queue is empty. I enabled debugging info in the driver, and every single time it queried the audio queue, it's always been reported empty, even if it was actually speaking. - I tried simplifying the interaction a bit: I got rid of all the (useless) audio queue enquiries and I simplified the way text is sent, sending all in a single bunch: escaped_string =3D g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1+20); strcpy(escaped_string, "(SayText \""); ptr1 =3D text; ptr2 =3D escaped_string + strlen(escaped_string); while (ptr1 && *ptr1) { if (*ptr1 =3D=3D '\"' || *ptr1 =3D=3D '\\') *ptr2++ =3D '\\'; *ptr2++ =3D *ptr1++; } *ptr2++ =3D '"'; *ptr2++ =3D ')'; *ptr2++ =3D '\r'; *ptr2++ =3D '\n'; *ptr2 =3D 0; [...] festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); oh, and I also escaped \ characters, which weren't escaped before (security risk? I didn't investigate).=20 The result was that things were a little bit more stable, but not much. Sound would stop (reliably reproducible by hitting ALT+F1 to go to the panel menu), but switching window with ALT+Tab would usually bring it back. However, sometimes gnopernicus wouldn't read its own menu entries unless one plays with ALT+Tab a bit more. So, it seems that window switching has a therapeutic influence here. When sound stops, what happens is that gnopernicus doesn't send data to the speech driver at all. I suspect that what happens is that the driver status reporting is confusing gnopernicus somehow. I tried to rewrite the festival driver using the festival C++ API instead of the pipeline to a festival server, but got stuck with the audio output: the festival audio scheduler has unreliable status report, and I'd have to implement a queryable and interruptible audio scheduler, which is something I'd spend days doing because I'm not familiar with glib even loops and esd/gstreamer programming. So, problems identified so far: - italian voices hate empty/blank strings - the driver sends lots of empty strings. The errors should be ignored by the server, though. - is_speaking report is unreliable - gnopernicus tends to stop sending data to the festival driver, possibly because of getting confused by the driver status reports. Switching windows seems to shake gnopernicus back to normal. - the way SayText strings are constructed should be improved, see the code snipped above. I'm sorry I didn't pinpoint the problems better, but the festival driver's code is full of enqueuing callbacks into lists and glib event queues, and is hard to follow for me. I would have liked to write the author and work on it together, but it's basically anonymous (it just says "Sun Microsystem"). I tried with orca as well, which seems to be more reliable in sending data to the speech driver, until at some point it caused all my desktop to hung up to the point of needing a CTRL+ALT+Backspace to restart X. I'll now try to work out how to make the festival voices work fine with empty/blank strings. I would be happy if someone can tell me what door to knock regarding the gnome-speech festival driver internals. =20 Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEoAj/9LSwzHl+v6sRAt4uAJ9kfJKR5qeaLfvDLuRLUwoR5mG9fACdEBVL TbENT/HLSKuN2IJDVy1HJhc= =Hi5Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 12:50:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D91D83B009A for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01334-03 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AF063B035F for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QGoQ40028657 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H00L017XYOP@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:50:26 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H00G1I841KL@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:50:26 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:51:37 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060626161912.GA7775@viaza> To: Enrico Zini Message-id: <1151340697.7079.69.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060626161912.GA7775@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_WC=0.077, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-speech festival driver problems explained X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:50:38 -0000 Hi Enrico: I am glad you are getting somewhere with your investigations. Thanks for the detective work. The copyright statement is not usually a helpful place to look if you are asking yourself, "who wrote this"? You might look at viewcvs (cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-speech), you can even get line-by-line attribution on exactly who committed a piece of code to CVS. Also the ChangeLog in the main gnome-speech directory may help you. Will Walker is currently maintaining gnome-speech, though he did not write the festival driver. I believe Remus Draica of BAUM committed a lot of the code which handles callbacks and "completion" notifications. Try rd at baum dot ro. I am pretty sure one reason we didn't use the C API for festival is difficulty with the audio scheduler. Also, note that festival has changed a bit since we first wrote the driver, so possibly some things have changed/broken in the interaction with recent festival versions. It should be easy to strip the "empty" or whitespace strings from the driver, and this seems like a harmless thing to do at least. If you prepare a patch that does this I'd be happy to commit it for you. If orca is working better, you might stick with that, and you may be able to get some assistance from Will Walker (william dot walker at sun dot com). best regards, Bill On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 17:19, Enrico Zini wrote: > (sort of) > > Hi. > > After studying the (uncommented) festival driver source code, I got to > some conclusions: > > - the Italian speech synthesis doesn't like speaking nothingness: > > $ festival > Festival Speech Synthesis System 1.4.3:release Jan 2003 > Copyright (C) University of Edinburgh, 1996-2003. All rights reserved. > For details type `(festival_warranty)' > festival> (SayText "") > # > festival> (SayText " ") > # > festival> (voice_lp_diphone) > lp_diphone > festival> (SayText " ") > SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val > festival> (SayText "") > SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val > festival> > > - the festival driver sends LOTS of nothingness: > > festivalsynthesisdriver.c:945: > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \""); > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "\")\r\n"); > > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \"\")\r\n"); > > basically, after every string that is sent, and empty string is sent. > Why? No idea. A comment explaining why would really have helped. > > - festival_synthesis_driver_is_speaking is broken: when festival has > only one wave in the audio spooler, it says that the queue is empty. > I enabled debugging info in the driver, and every single time it > queried the audio queue, it's always been reported empty, even if it > was actually speaking. > > - I tried simplifying the interaction a bit: I got rid of all the > (useless) audio queue enquiries and I simplified the way text is > sent, sending all in a single bunch: > > escaped_string = g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1+20); > strcpy(escaped_string, "(SayText \""); > ptr1 = text; > ptr2 = escaped_string + strlen(escaped_string); > while (ptr1 && *ptr1) > { > if (*ptr1 == '\"' || *ptr1 == '\\') > *ptr2++ = '\\'; > *ptr2++ = *ptr1++; > } > *ptr2++ = '"'; > *ptr2++ = ')'; > *ptr2++ = '\r'; > *ptr2++ = '\n'; > *ptr2 = 0; > [...] > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); > > oh, and I also escaped \ characters, which weren't escaped before > (security risk? I didn't investigate). > > The result was that things were a little bit more stable, but not much. > Sound would stop (reliably reproducible by hitting ALT+F1 to go to the > panel menu), but switching window with ALT+Tab would usually bring it > back. However, sometimes gnopernicus wouldn't read its own menu entries > unless one plays with ALT+Tab a bit more. So, it seems that window > switching has a therapeutic influence here. > > When sound stops, what happens is that gnopernicus doesn't send data to > the speech driver at all. I suspect that what happens is that the > driver status reporting is confusing gnopernicus somehow. > > I tried to rewrite the festival driver using the festival C++ API > instead of the pipeline to a festival server, but got stuck with the > audio output: the festival audio scheduler has unreliable status report, > and I'd have to implement a queryable and interruptible audio scheduler, > which is something I'd spend days doing because I'm not familiar with > glib even loops and esd/gstreamer programming. > > So, problems identified so far: > > - italian voices hate empty/blank strings > - the driver sends lots of empty strings. The errors should be ignored > by the server, though. > - is_speaking report is unreliable > - gnopernicus tends to stop sending data to the festival driver, > possibly because of getting confused by the driver status reports. > Switching windows seems to shake gnopernicus back to normal. > - the way SayText strings are constructed should be improved, see the > code snipped above. > > I'm sorry I didn't pinpoint the problems better, but the festival > driver's code is full of enqueuing callbacks into lists and glib event > queues, and is hard to follow for me. I would have liked to write the > author and work on it together, but it's basically anonymous (it just > says "Sun Microsystem"). > > I tried with orca as well, which seems to be more reliable in sending > data to the speech driver, until at some point it caused all my desktop > to hung up to the point of needing a CTRL+ALT+Backspace to restart X. > > I'll now try to work out how to make the festival voices work fine with > empty/blank strings. I would be happy if someone can tell me what door > to knock regarding the gnome-speech festival driver internals. > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From mclasen@redhat.com Mon Jun 26 13:00:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A31C3B017D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01856-01 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 886EE3B042D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5QH0JQG020601; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:19 -0400 Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (lacrosse.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.154]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5QH0E5S015427; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:14 -0400 Received: from [172.16.83.129] (vpn83-129.boston.redhat.com [172.16.83.129]) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k5QH0DJb024353; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:14 -0400 From: Matthias Clasen To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151336763.7079.60.camel@linux.site> References: <1151336763.7079.60.camel@linux.site> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:02:29 -0400 Message-Id: <1151341349.3063.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.3 (2.7.3-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.547 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.547 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:00:23 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 16:46 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been > > broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ > > under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. > > I didn't know there was any a11y code in gtk+ proper yet, > usually it's all in gail. Could you explain? The icon view a11y code was already inside GTK+, since we didn't want to expose all the innards that would be required to do the a11y implementation in gail. The original implemenation was done by Padraig, but he is doing other things now, right ? The code needs to be updated to work with the cell renderer based approach that is used in GTK+ >= 2.8. I started to look into that myself, but didn't get very far... > > Obviously, that is not happening. > > Obviously? I don't know about this. > Sorry I the sound of my message was too harsh; I still care about accessibility, obviously :-) Matthias From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Mon Jun 26 13:31:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF943B046C for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03384-09 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:31:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (webmail.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 479AF3B042D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:31:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NP315MWW; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:34:13 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:33:38 -0300 Message-Id: <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.693 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.476, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=1.247, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.693 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:31:39 -0000 Hi Bill, On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 16:36 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > Hi guys, > >=20 > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > community members have in mind about this. >=20 > Hi Carlos: >=20 > I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features= =20 > just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), > it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic=20 > to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that > was available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it=20 > didn't' look like a lot of code. We must emulate some of the window-manager-like features to know about what is happening with the windows, so we can a fine control what must be composed, because without a good use of what we must compose we will push down perfomance. I don't think that it's a premature optimization, because I don't think in it like the right solution. We don't need do duplicate efforts. The xserver can do this work for us so more easy. Moreover, putting this in the xserver we will being creating the mechanisms to improve the gnome-mag, or anyother magnifier, API a lot and with a lot of flexibility and less code. How Composite does the things is more suitable to applications that want to add a eye-kind desktop to the user and low-vision users don't like this, for they the desktop must be the as simple as possible, without effects. They prefer static things. >=20 > I believe that basically we'd just need to use Composite's capability > to prune the window tree, separate our magnifier window out, and=20 > render only that window to the screen after compositing directly > into it. =20 It will so much easy if we can ask a piece of the window, manipulate it like we want (using xrender or any other mechanism/algorithm) and then draw in the magnifier window (the only window that goes to screen memory). The changes to gnome-mag will be minors. >=20 > Why is it not that straightforward? I don't understand the problem=20 > you seem concerned about... Because we must implement a composite manager or embbed magnifier logic in window-managers. The first will only have good performance in good computers with good video cards. This is not a big problem, since the prices are lowering more and more, but we still with a glue code in the application that can be avoided. The later sounds very terrible to me, since magnifiers and window-managers are to distinct things. I, like a magnifier developer don't want to worry in my code with some question related about window-manager, and I think that the vice-versa is true. Moreover, a window-manager is a policy while, for me and I think to you too, the magnifier service is a mechanism. >=20 > regards, >=20 > Bill >=20 > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like cod= e > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server ca= n > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have = a > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > this work in older hardware. > >=20 > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents o= f > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > >=20 > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reason= s > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > will start to play. > >=20 > > Thanks, >=20 --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Tue Jun 27 08:22:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B33353B0072 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:22:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28053-08 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948CC3B0012 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5RBi0V7019064 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 05:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1I00601OHMXN@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:43:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from dhcp-226-143.Ireland.Sun.COM (dhcp-226-143.Ireland.Sun.COM [129.156.226.143]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1I00F8WOLB70@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:43:59 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:45:11 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> To: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?UTF-8?Q?Di=C3=B3genes?= Message-id: <1151408711.7842.10.camel@dhcp-226-143.ireland.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.507 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.091, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.507 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:22:35 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 18:33, Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues DiĂłgenes wrote: > Hi Bill, > > On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 16:36 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > > community members have in mind about this. > > > > Hi Carlos: > > > > I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features > > just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), > > it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic > > to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that > > was available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it > > didn't' look like a lot of code. > > We must emulate some of the window-manager-like features to know about > what is happening with the windows, so we can a fine control what must > be composed, because without a good use of what we must compose we will > push down perfomance. I don't think I agree with your assessment. Perhaps you could be more explicit? Why would we need to do more clipping/checking that the existing compositing manager? At most, we would want to keep track of the current magnified viewport. > I don't think that it's a premature optimization, > because I don't think in it like the right solution. We don't need do > duplicate efforts. The xserver can do this work for us so more easy. I don't recommend this - we had extensive discussions with the XServer development community about magnification needs, and Composite is what we got. Writing a new Xserver extension, and getting it accepted, which is what you are proposing, doesn't seem like a reasonable thing to do until we first try to make full use of the new XServer extension that was already written in part to try and solve our magnification issues. regards, Bill > Moreover, putting this in the xserver we will being creating the > mechanisms to improve the gnome-mag, or anyother magnifier, API a lot > and with a lot of flexibility and less code. > > How Composite does the things is more suitable to applications that want > to add a eye-kind desktop to the user and low-vision users don't like > this, for they the desktop must be the as simple as possible, without > effects. They prefer static things. > > > > > I believe that basically we'd just need to use Composite's capability > > to prune the window tree, separate our magnifier window out, and > > render only that window to the screen after compositing directly > > into it. > > It will so much easy if we can ask a piece of the window, manipulate it > like we want (using xrender or any other mechanism/algorithm) and then > draw in the magnifier window (the only window that goes to screen > memory). The changes to gnome-mag will be minors. > > > > > Why is it not that straightforward? I don't understand the problem > > you seem concerned about... > > Because we must implement a composite manager or embbed magnifier logic > in window-managers. The first will only have good performance in good > computers with good video cards. This is not a big problem, since the > prices are lowering more and more, but we still with a glue code in the > application that can be avoided. The later sounds very terrible to me, > since magnifiers and window-managers are to distinct things. I, like a > magnifier developer don't want to worry in my code with some question > related about window-manager, and I think that the vice-versa is true. > Moreover, a window-manager is a policy while, for me and I think to you > too, the magnifier service is a mechanism. > > > > > regards, > > > > Bill > > > > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > > this work in older hardware. > > > > > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > > > > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > > will start to play. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > -- > Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues DiĂłgenes > Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From gk4@austin.ibm.com Tue Jun 27 14:39:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36343B0110 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12817-01 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e3.ny.us.ibm.com (e3.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.143]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4BE43B00A6 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5RIbt75014141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:55 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.6/NCO/VER7.0) with ESMTP id k5RIbs2s242296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:54 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k5RIbsX3011385 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:54 -0400 Received: from gk4.austin.ibm.com (gk4.austin.ibm.com [9.53.33.16]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5RIbsAg011344; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:54 -0400 From: George Kraft To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151408711.7842.10.camel@dhcp-226-143.ireland.sun.com> References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <1151408711.7842.10.camel@dhcp-226-143.ireland.sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: IBM Corp Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:34:50 -0500 Message-Id: <1151433290.6050.21.camel@gk4.austin.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.491 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.491 X-Spam-Level: Cc: xorg@lists.freedesktop.org, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: gk4@austin.ibm.com List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:39:18 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 12:45 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features > just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), > it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic > to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that > as available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it > didn't' look like a lot of code. Carlos, Here is an opportunity to enhance magnification to the existing composite client code. :-) http://lwn.net/Articles/181272/ http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/libcm/src/magnifier.c?rev=1.5&view=log http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-devel-list/2006-April/msg00971.html $ USE_MAGNIFIER=1 metacity --replace & -- George (gk4) From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Tue Jun 27 17:15:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79D343B00CC for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17346-08 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059743B006C for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-06.sun.com ([192.18.39.116]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5RLFK0x017095 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-06.sun.com by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1J00601ENSVJ00@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.23.60] by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1J003FUF1I4M80@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com>; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:16 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carlos_Eduardo_Rodrigues_Di=F3genes?= Message-id: <44A19FE4.3020507@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.544 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Bill Haneman , gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 21:15:58 -0000 Hi Carlos, Excerpting from the end of your e-mail: > Because we must implement a composite manager or embbed magnifier logic > in window-managers. The first will only have good performance in good > computers with good video cards. This is not a big problem, since the > prices are lowering more and more, but we still with a glue code in the > application that can be avoided. The later sounds very terrible to me, > since magnifiers and window-managers are to distinct things. I, like a > magnifier developer don't want to worry in my code with some question > related about window-manager, and I think that the vice-versa is true. > Moreover, a window-manager is a policy while, for me and I think to you > too, the magnifier service is a mechanism. > Magnifiers and Window Managers have been distinct things up until now. But I am not convinced that is necessarily a good thing. I believe the fundamental purpose of magnification software is to enable someone with any of a variety of visual impairments to be able to: a. see what is on the screen b. track specific regions on the screen - either mouse interactions, text caret, keyboard focus, OR other things that may be updating (e.g. multiple "zoom regions", tracking changes to a formula bar in a spreadsheet) c. find things that they want to interact with d. otherwise use the desktop & computer to accomplish the same sorts of things as everyone else Looking at these tasks, basic magnification can accomplish (a). Tracking things (for task (b)) needs the magnifier to be driven by things like at-spi, and a lot of logic to do this is in Gnopernicus & Orca (with more coming over time). But when it comes to (c), there are things that would be nice to do that we haven't really gotten to yet, on any platform. Products like ZoomText and inLARGE had modes to toggle back and forth between unmagnified & magnified views (with a heavy 'border lens' showing where the user was relative to the entire desktop). Gnopernicus has a 'proportional' mode that uses the mouse location on the magnified view to indicate where the mouse is on the entire desktop. But these are really somewhat limited tools. However, some of the things that COMPOSITE gives us, and some of the features in the new window managers, suggest some very interesting new opportunities for helping users find things. For example, why not have the magnifier zoom a specific window to the entire screen? Or zoom a pair of windows to sharing the entire magnified screen? Or overlay some notification information to a portion of an otherwise magnified screen? Such tasks are essentially "window manager" tasks, yet when combined with magnification they can offer some interesting potential improvements for efficiency and productivity for users with vision impairments - rather than relying on a magnifier to do the magnification, and a window manager to hopefully do some of these sorts of things, and try to get the magnifier to try to optimize the end-user result. Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > >> regards, >> >> Bill >> >> >>> If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code >>> in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must >>> track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can >>> generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be >>> showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to >>> maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a >>> good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with >>> composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a >>> big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do >>> this work in older hardware. >>> >>> Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit >>> the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, >>> something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of >>> all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root >>> window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. >>> >>> I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons >>> to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try >>> this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I >>> will start to play. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 09:59:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74633B017A; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14201-04; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (agnus.ngi.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA8D3B01E2; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SDwIwD028281; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:58:18 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvaXC-000293-Dz; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:56:50 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:56:50 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060628135650.GA6628@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.447 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.447 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Probably found the problem with the Italian synthesis X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:59:16 -0000 --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, might be around here: $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language english $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language finnish SIOD ERROR: damaged env : # $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language spanish $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language italian LTS_Ruleset italian_downcase: no rule matches: LTS_Ruleset: # P e r *here* =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD # $ =2E..especially when this comes out of the log of a crashed orca session: # grep SPEECH debug.out |tail SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Grafica menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Up' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Giochi menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Up' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Audio & Video menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Up' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Accessori menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Right' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Alacarte - Editor di men=C3=B9' I'll now try to work on it a bit. In the meantime, I patched audsp in festival to also report the currently playing sample in the playing list. This makes two useful patches that I should start to extract properly and send around, but my main priority is still having a long-lasting Italian speech experience. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEooqi9LSwzHl+v6sRAqtrAJ9y2yxCiWlh3jbH/nxrzqMVyCh9MACghPal qzCsGZJ+BpKwEwJ3zDeEXi8= =FyyJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N-- From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 12:08:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462033B00A7 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19610-06 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7982C3B01CD for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SG7rpH001308; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:07:53 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvcTl-00029Z-Vx; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:01:26 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:01:25 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 16:08:39 -0000 --SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR" Content-Disposition: inline --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, finally, I'm attaching patches: audsp-queue.patch Patch for festival's audsp to also report the currently playing file on (audio_mode 'query) This seems to bring no particular improvement. I suspect that gnopernicus doesn't need the is_speaking function too badly, after all? unclutter.patch Patch for gnome-speech festival driver to send a single, more compact SayText command, and to avoid sending empty strings or string containing only blanks. This is mainly a cosmetic patch. recode.patch Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 instead of utf-8. This fixes the Italian voices! Hooray!! Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="unclutter.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- /home/enrico/src/orig/gnome-speech-0.4.0/drivers/festival/festivalsynth= esisdriver.c 2006-05-14 16:49:21.000000000 +0200 +++ festivalsynthesisdriver.c 2006-06-28 17:43:04.252707768 +0200 @@ -35,6 +35,7 @@ #include #include #include +#include #include "festivalsynthesisdriver.h" #include "festivalspeaker.h" =20 @@ -910,21 +911,29 @@ { gchar *escaped_string; gchar *ptr1, *ptr2; + int spaces_only =3D 1; =20 g_assert (IS_FESTIVAL_SYNTHESIS_DRIVER (d) && IS_FESTIVALSPEAKER (s) && t= ext); =20 - =20 - escaped_string =3D g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1); + + escaped_string =3D g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1+20); + strcpy(escaped_string, "(SayText \""); ptr1 =3D text; - ptr2 =3D escaped_string; + ptr2 =3D escaped_string + strlen(escaped_string); while (ptr1 && *ptr1) { - if (*ptr1 =3D=3D '\"') + if (!isspace(*ptr1)) + spaces_only =3D 0; + if (*ptr1 =3D=3D '\"' || *ptr1 =3D=3D '\\') *ptr2++ =3D '\\'; *ptr2++ =3D *ptr1++; } + *ptr2++ =3D '"'; + *ptr2++ =3D ')'; + *ptr2++ =3D '\r'; + *ptr2++ =3D '\n'; *ptr2 =3D 0; - + =20 /* Refresh if needded */=20 if (d->last_speaker !=3D s || speaker_needs_parameter_refresh (SPE= AKER(s))) { @@ -937,16 +946,15 @@ clb_list_free (d->crt_clbs); d->crt_clbs =3D speaker_get_clb_list (SPEAKER (s)); =20 + if (!spaces_only) + { #ifdef FESTIVAL_DEBUG_TEXT - fprintf (stderr, "\nSENT:\"%s\" from \"%s\"", escaped_string, text); + fprintf (stderr, "\nSENT:\"%s\" from \"%s\"", escaped_string, text); #endif - d->is_speaking =3D TRUE; - d->queue_length =3D 1; - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \""); - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "\")\r\n"); - - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \"\")\r\n"); + d->is_speaking =3D TRUE; + d->queue_length =3D 1; + festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); + } =20 if (escaped_string) g_free (escaped_string); --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="recode.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- festivalsynthesisdriver.c 2006-06-28 17:43:04.252707768 +0200 +++ festivalsynthesisdriver.c.final 2006-06-28 17:41:15.475244456 +0200 @@ -941,6 +941,12 @@ festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, s->voice); speaker_refresh_parameters (SPEAKER(s)); d->last_speaker =3D s; + + if (strcmp(d->last_speaker->voice, "(voice_pc_diphone)\n") =3D=3D 0 + || strcmp(d->last_speaker->voice, "(voice_lp_diphone)\n") =3D=3D 0) + g_io_channel_set_encoding(d->channel_sock, "latin1", NULL); + else + g_io_channel_set_encoding(d->channel_sock, "UTF-8", NULL); } =20 clb_list_free (d->crt_clbs); --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="audsp-queue.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- audsp.cc 2006-06-28 17:46:18.384195296 +0200 +++ /home/enrico/src/festival-1.4.3.enrico/src/main/audsp.cc 2006-06-28 15:= 22:28.162537000 +0200 @@ -104,6 +104,15 @@ static int sp_terminate(void); static void tidy_up(void); =20 +static int no_more_input =3D FALSE; +static CQueue command_queue; +static int child_pid =3D 0; +static EST_String current_file; +static EST_Option play_wave_options; +static int maxqueue =3D 5; +static int pending_close =3D FALSE; +static int kids =3D 0; + void CQueue::push(Command *c) { // Put this item on tail @@ -143,10 +152,18 @@ void CQueue::display(void) const { CQueue_Item *t; - int i; + int i =3D 0; + int len =3D length(); + if (kids > 0) + { + ++len; + ++i; + } =20 - cerr << "Command_queue: " << length() << endl; - for (i=3D0,t=3Dhead; t !=3D 0; t=3Dt->next,i++) + cerr << "Command_queue: " << len << endl; + if (kids > 0) + cerr << " " << 0 << ": " << current_file << endl; + for (t=3Dhead; t !=3D 0; t=3Dt->next,i++) cerr << " " << i << ": " << t->c->file() << endl; } =20 @@ -176,15 +193,6 @@ tail =3D 0; } =20 -static int no_more_input =3D FALSE; -static CQueue command_queue; -static int child_pid =3D 0; -static EST_String current_file; -static EST_Option play_wave_options; -static int maxqueue =3D 5; -static int pending_close =3D FALSE; -static int kids =3D 0; - int main(int argc, char **argv) { =20 --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR-- --SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEoqfV9LSwzHl+v6sRAsloAJ9NSW6Jj7NDEq4ubcRTxEPZkgh6JQCfThZv SWQpep7MnFeaNCNf1HelzvY= =EbZs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Wed Jun 28 13:56:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE1C3B0357 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24930-07 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (nwkea-mail-2.sun.com [192.18.42.14]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C905F3B047B for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5SHtmkv026846 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1L007010B4TM@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:55:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-151.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.151]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1L00D8T0GZ0M@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:55:48 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:57:00 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> To: Enrico Zini , William.Walker@Sun.COM Message-id: <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:56:18 -0000 Hi Enrico: Thanks a bunch for those patches! I have a question about the utf-8/latin1 patch... ... > > recode.patch > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > instead of utf-8. Are you sure this is sufficient? Don't you need to call g_convert in order to convert the strings from the gnome-speech client to latin1 before passing them to the engine? > This fixes the Italian voices! Hooray!! That's great news. But it seems to me that there should be something more general and robust than just checking the voice string, in order to determine the correct encoding which the festival engine/voice expects. Note also that this problem seems to have been introduced on May 14 when Will explicitly changed the encoding on the iochannel from ISO-8859-1 to UTF-8. Will, can you explain why you did that? Bill > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Wed Jun 28 14:05:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A27A93B0365 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25636-01 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-mail-5.sun.com (nwkea-mail-5.sun.com [192.18.42.27]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F7B3B012D for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by nwkea-mail-5.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5SI54u8020652 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1L00A010OB04@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:05:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-151.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.151]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1L00DJG0WF0M@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:05:03 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:06:16 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> To: Enrico Zini Message-id: <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:05:24 -0000 Hi: I found the bug whose patch seems to have introduced the problem Enrico found: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=321216 So it seems a more general/robust method is needed for determining the correct encoding for the output channel. For some voices it's apparently UTF-8, whereas for most european voices it's "latin 1". Presumably some languages may need latin2, etc. instead... Bill On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 17:01, Enrico Zini wrote: > Hello, > > finally, I'm attaching patches: > > audsp-queue.patch > Patch for festival's audsp to also report the currently playing file > on (audio_mode 'query) > > This seems to bring no particular improvement. I suspect that > gnopernicus doesn't need the is_speaking function too badly, after > all? > > unclutter.patch > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver to send a single, more compact > SayText command, and to avoid sending empty strings or string > containing only blanks. > > This is mainly a cosmetic patch. > > recode.patch > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > instead of utf-8. > > This fixes the Italian voices! Hooray!! > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 19:00:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75EF43B0061 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06116-07 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (ns.virtuo.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 156933B0167 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SMxdWk013642; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:59:41 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fvik3-000332-VW; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:42:39 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:42:39 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Bill Haneman Message-ID: <20060628224239.GB7241@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.672 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.766, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.672 X-Spam-Level: Cc: William.Walker@Sun.COM, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:00:07 -0000 --Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 06:57:00PM +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > recode.patch > > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > > instead of utf-8. > Are you sure this is sufficient? Don't you need to call g_convert in > order to convert the strings from the gnome-speech client to latin1 > before passing them to the engine? Yes, it is sufficient, and I tested the patched gnome-speech for quite a while enjoying for the first time a good trip at a spoken OpenOffice, and a nice read of lots of accented characters. I must admit I was surprised myself. Apparently the g_io infrastructure has been designed smartly so that UTF-8 applications can talk with the external world in its many incarnations. > That's great news. But it seems to me that there should be something > more general and robust than just checking the voice string, in order to > determine the correct encoding which the festival engine/voice expects. True. And if one day the italian festival voice will be changed to take utf-8, then gnome-speech will need changing as well. However, I have currently no idea how to query a festival voice for the preferred encoding. Maybe there's a super-simple lisp function for that, and we can get rid of the compiled-in per-voice encoding list. Or, otherwise, it can be not compiled in but read from a config file. > Note also that this problem seems to have been introduced on May 14 when > Will explicitly changed the encoding on the iochannel from ISO-8859-1 to > UTF-8. Will, can you explain why you did that? To me it makes a lot of sense to send out data in UTF-8 by default: I think that it's the italian voice that is broken in this regard. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEowXf9LSwzHl+v6sRAjtfAJ9P4w4g3a91DNRKR+jApNWh1dybCgCeJ0/P M9ToQPSWG7J2ti0P24CSZ+o= =CnPR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a-- From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 19:00:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D7D3B01D5 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06351-03 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (ns.virtuo.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D25603B0077 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SMxtWE013658; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:59:55 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fviq6-00033K-Vn; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:48:55 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:48:54 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Hynek Hanke Message-ID: <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="H8ygTp4AXg6deix2" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.662 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.756, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.662 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Bill Haneman , William.Walker@Sun.COM, zamazal@brailcom.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:00:16 -0000 --H8ygTp4AXg6deix2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, then > you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate functions > and let Festival care about the necessary conversions between encodings. > Encodings can be easily defined by the user in the configuration file, > or can be specified by the author of the voice, as is the case with > festival-czech. It has a dependency on the 'recode' utility. The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" and then communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it will be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because there seems to be a general consensus in moving away from gnome-speech. From what I understand it's currently fine to make fixes to gnome-speech, but a bit too late to do major redesigns. BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from gnome-speech, and since a long time, too. > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the encoding > used for different voices is easily configurable by the user. I think > there is no way how to determine the encoding of a given voice in > Festival automatically (which is of course broken :( ), so giving the > user the power to fix the problem without recompiling anything is very > important. Good point. So, either there's a way to query the preferred encoding to the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should all be read from some external config and not compiled in. There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian speech synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the encoding, or to do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't know enough of Festival to be able to do that. Maybe the festival developers can help here? Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --H8ygTp4AXg6deix2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEowdW9LSwzHl+v6sRAjJXAJ4u8WmGgkpv57JAnp7AqK+Y71qTIgCfTNws P1wIYaoBIws1FHYlsk/kUXs= =Bfg9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --H8ygTp4AXg6deix2-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Wed Jun 28 20:13:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17823B00EC for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09357-09 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9763B3B007D for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5T0CZVT013271 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1L00L01HWDHP@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:12:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-57.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.57]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1L00BMFHWYD3@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:12:35 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:13:48 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> To: Enrico Zini Message-id: <1151540028.7061.22.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.58 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.58 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Hynek Hanke , William.Walker@Sun.COM, zamazal@brailcom.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:13:06 -0000 I think creating some configuration file, like for instance: gnome-speech/festival/voices.config makes sense. That way we can map voices to POSIX locales, which would be very useful, and we can also include info on the voice's string encoding format while we are at it. It's a bit hacky but probably the best solution for now. gnome-speech has some API for asking what locales a voice supports, but in order to implement it better such a config file is needed anyway. It might as well be a simple text format so that users can easily add voices. Bill On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 23:48, Enrico Zini wrote: > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > > > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, then > > you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate functions > > and let Festival care about the necessary conversions between encodings. > > Encodings can be easily defined by the user in the configuration file, > > or can be specified by the author of the voice, as is the case with > > festival-czech. It has a dependency on the 'recode' utility. > > The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" and then > communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it will > be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because there > seems to be a general consensus in moving away from gnome-speech. From > what I understand it's currently fine to make fixes to gnome-speech, but > a bit too late to do major redesigns. > > BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can > understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from gnome-speech, > and since a long time, too. > > > > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the encoding > > used for different voices is easily configurable by the user. I think > > there is no way how to determine the encoding of a given voice in > > Festival automatically (which is of course broken :( ), so giving the > > user the power to fix the problem without recompiling anything is very > > important. > > Good point. So, either there's a way to query the preferred encoding to > the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should all be > read from some external config and not compiled in. > > There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian speech > synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the encoding, or to > do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't know enough of Festival to be > able to do that. Maybe the festival developers can help here? > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From FDMA@once.es Thu Jun 29 02:57:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689E63B0218 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23945-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:57:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx.once.es (mx.once.es [217.149.152.66]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07933B00B2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from omail01.once.org (unknown [172.24.1.51]) by mx.once.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4601C37F8; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:57:48 +0200 (MEST) Received: by OMAIL01.once.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:57:06 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Dorado_Mart=EDnez=2C_Francisco_Javier=22?= To: Bill Haneman , Enrico Zini Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:57:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.581 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.581 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Hynek Hanke , William.Walker@Sun.COM, zamazal@brailcom.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:57:14 -0000 Hi all I would extend this solution to all speech-synthesis-drivers cause no TTS is UTF-8 capable. I have had this problem with dectalk and festival. And the other way, set to the locale We found that in Ubuntu for example, the locale is set to UTF-8 too. LANG='es_ES_UTF-8' Since some voices in Festival seems to work with UTF-8, I think a user setting to set the channel encoding would make sense. Regards Javier. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Bill Haneman [mailto:Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM] > Enviado el: jueves, 29 de junio de 2006 2:14 > Para: Enrico Zini > CC: Hynek Hanke; William.Walker@Sun.COM; > zamazal@brailcom.org; ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com; > gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > Asunto: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza > > > I think creating some configuration file, like for instance: > gnome-speech/festival/voices.config > makes sense. That way we can map voices to POSIX locales, > which would be very useful, and we can also include info on > the voice's string encoding format while we are at it. It's > a bit hacky but probably the best solution for now. > > gnome-speech has some API for asking what locales a voice > supports, but in order to implement it better such a config > file is needed anyway. It might as well be a simple text > format so that users can easily add voices. > > Bill > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 23:48, Enrico Zini wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > > > > > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, > > > then you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate > > > functions and let Festival care about the necessary conversions > > > between encodings. Encodings can be easily defined by the user in > > > the configuration file, or can be specified by the author of the > > > voice, as is the case with festival-czech. It has a dependency on > > > the 'recode' utility. > > > > The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival > -server" and then > > communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it > > will be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because > > there seems to be a general consensus in moving away from > > gnome-speech. From what I understand it's currently fine to make > > fixes to gnome-speech, but a bit too late to do major redesigns. > > > > BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can > > understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from > gnome-speech, > > and since a long time, too. > > > > > > > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the > > > encoding used for different voices is easily configurable by the > > > user. I think there is no way how to determine the encoding of a > > > given voice in Festival automatically (which is of course > broken :( > > > ), so giving the user the power to fix the problem without > > > recompiling anything is very important. > > > > Good point. So, either there's a way to query the > preferred encoding > > to the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should > > all be read from some external config and not compiled in. > > > > There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian > > speech synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the > > encoding, or to do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't > know enough > > of Festival to be able to do that. Maybe the festival > developers can > > help here? > > > > > > Ciao, > > > > Enrico > > > > -- > > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > From hanke@brailcom.org Wed Jun 28 15:24:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E84D93B00E1 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29777-01 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out3.iol.cz (smtp-out3.iol.cz [194.228.2.91]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F2CD3B008A for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from antivir3.iol.cz (avir3 [192.168.30.206]) by smtp-out3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB19E82A3; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (antivir3.iol.cz [127.0.0.1]) by antivir3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id E703E42000D; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp-out3.iol.cz (smtp-out-3.iplanet.iol.cz [192.168.30.28]) by antivir3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D8842000A; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.36] (77.93.broadband2.iol.cz [83.208.93.77]) by smtp-out3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2C43BE49; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Hynek Hanke To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:22:41 +0200 Message-Id: <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at iol.cz X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 03:15:38 -0400 Cc: William.Walker@Sun.COM, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, zamazal@brailcom.org, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:24:50 -0000 Bill Haneman writes v St 28. 06. 2006 v 18:57 +0100: > > recode.patch > > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > > instead of utf-8. > Are you sure this is sufficient? Don't you need to call g_convert in > order to convert the strings from the gnome-speech client to latin1 > before passing them to the engine? >That's great news. But it seems to me that there should be something >more general and robust than just checking the voice string, in order >to determine the correct encoding which the festival engine/voice > expects. > [...] > Note also that this problem seems to have been introduced on May 14 when > Will explicitly changed the encoding on the iochannel from ISO-8859-1 to > UTF-8. Will, can you explain why you did that? Hello, if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, then you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate functions and let Festival care about the necessary conversions between encodings. Encodings can be easily defined by the user in the configuration file, or can be specified by the author of the voice, as is the case with festival-czech. It has a dependency on the 'recode' utility. festival-freebsoft-utils also provide other nice functions (such as partial SSML support) and a coherent API. I'm CCing its developer Milan Zamazal who can answer future questions better than me. If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the encoding used for different voices is easily configurable by the user. I think there is no way how to determine the encoding of a given voice in Festival automatically (which is of course broken :( ), so giving the user the power to fix the problem without recompiling anything is very important. With regards, Hynek Hanke From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Thu Jun 29 05:15:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257113B0371 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32068-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10CCA3B040A for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5T9FYiR027118 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 03:15:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1M00J0171S0L@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:15:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-82.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.82]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1M00DA17226D@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:15:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:16:52 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: To: "\"Dorado =?UTF-8?Q?Mart=C3=ADnez=2C?= Francisco Javier\"" Message-id: <1151572612.7091.6.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.58 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.58 X-Spam-Level: Cc: William.Walker@Sun.COM, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, Hynek Hanke , zamazal@brailcom.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 09:15:57 -0000 Hi Javier: Actually, festival _is_ UTF-8 capable, at least for some voices. The change to use UTF-8 on the festival stream was part of a patch to support an Indian dialect, but unfortunately it seems that the impact on european languages wasn't understood when it was committed. I made a change to the gnome-speech festival driver in April 2005 to use ISO-8859-1 as its encoding, which worked for all the festival european languages which we were aware of at the time. However it didn't work with the Indian language above, thus the patch. I still think ISO-8859-1 might be a better 'default' for the festival driver than UTF-8, since as far as I know none of the european voices expect UTF-8 input. It works for English of course, but perhaps only for ASCII characters! regards Bill On Thu, 2006-06-29 at 07:57, "Dorado MartĂ­nez, Francisco Javier" wrote: > Hi all > > I would extend this solution to all speech-synthesis-drivers cause no TTS is > UTF-8 capable. I have had this problem with dectalk and festival. And the > other way, set to the locale We found that in Ubuntu for example, the locale > is set to UTF-8 too. LANG='es_ES_UTF-8' > > Since some voices in Festival seems to work with UTF-8, I think a user > setting to set the channel encoding would make sense. > > Regards > > Javier. > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: Bill Haneman [mailto:Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM] > > Enviado el: jueves, 29 de junio de 2006 2:14 > > Para: Enrico Zini > > CC: Hynek Hanke; William.Walker@Sun.COM; > > zamazal@brailcom.org; ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com; > > gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > Asunto: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza > > > > > > I think creating some configuration file, like for instance: > > gnome-speech/festival/voices.config > > makes sense. That way we can map voices to POSIX locales, > > which would be very useful, and we can also include info on > > the voice's string encoding format while we are at it. It's > > a bit hacky but probably the best solution for now. > > > > gnome-speech has some API for asking what locales a voice > > supports, but in order to implement it better such a config > > file is needed anyway. It might as well be a simple text > > format so that users can easily add voices. > > > > Bill > > > > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 23:48, Enrico Zini wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > > > > > > > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, > > > > then you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate > > > > functions and let Festival care about the necessary conversions > > > > between encodings. Encodings can be easily defined by the user in > > > > the configuration file, or can be specified by the author of the > > > > voice, as is the case with festival-czech. It has a dependency on > > > > the 'recode' utility. > > > > > > The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival > > -server" and then > > > communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it > > > will be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because > > > there seems to be a general consensus in moving away from > > > gnome-speech. From what I understand it's currently fine to make > > > fixes to gnome-speech, but a bit too late to do major redesigns. > > > > > > BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can > > > understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from > > gnome-speech, > > > and since a long time, too. > > > > > > > > > > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the > > > > encoding used for different voices is easily configurable by the > > > > user. I think there is no way how to determine the encoding of a > > > > given voice in Festival automatically (which is of course > > broken :( > > > > ), so giving the user the power to fix the problem without > > > > recompiling anything is very important. > > > > > > Good point. So, either there's a way to query the > > preferred encoding > > > to the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should > > > all be read from some external config and not compiled in. > > > > > > There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian > > > speech synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the > > > encoding, or to do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't > > know enough > > > of Festival to be able to do that. Maybe the festival > > developers can > > > help here? > > > > > > > > > Ciao, > > > > > > Enrico > > > > > > -- > > > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 06:40:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D29A3B020C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04497-06 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09BAC3B00FC for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvtwI-0004cx-Hl for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:40:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:40:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:40:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:39:02 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 48 Message-ID: <87zmfwkzzt.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:dpr5gWF7m2CQe57deFG/X7ghQoI= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.441 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.340, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.441 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:40:11 -0000 >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: EZ> The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" EZ> and then communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how EZ> much effort it will be to convert it to use EZ> festival-freebsoft-utils, Just load it on Festival startup (e.g. in /etc/festival.scm). EZ> And if one day the italian festival voice will be changed to EZ> take utf-8, Italian Festival voice needn't be changed, Festival should be changed itself to support UTF-8. EZ> However, I have currently no idea how to query a festival voice EZ> for the preferred encoding. The festival-freebsoft-utils call is (current-voice-coding) e.g.: festival> (voice_kal_diphone) kal_diphone festival> (current-voice-coding) ISO-8859-1 festival> (voice_czech_ph) czech_ph festival> (current-voice-coding) ISO-8859-2 EZ> To me it makes a lot of sense to send out data in UTF-8 by EZ> default: Yes. EZ> I think that it's the italian voice that is broken in this EZ> regard. No, actually Festival is broken as it doesn't support UTF-8 input, someone should fix it (but I'm afraid it's a non-trivial task). Regards, Milan Zamazal From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Thu Jun 29 06:46:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6D303B0138 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04924-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1490C3B0218 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5TAkeCp014913 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 04:46:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1M00I01B3LIM@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:46:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-82.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.82]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1M00LVLB9UYQ@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:46:42 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:47:55 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <87zmfwkzzt.fsf@zamazal.org> To: Milan Zamazal Message-id: <1151578075.7091.9.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> <87zmfwkzzt.fsf@zamazal.org> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:46:49 -0000 Milan: Thanks for pointing out this festival API (for finding the preferred encoding). I didn't know it existed. It seems to me that the gnome-speech driver should just make the equivalent API call and set the io channel to the festival driver accordingly. That would prevent us from having to make up some kind of config file. regards Bill On Thu, 2006-06-29 at 11:39, Milan Zamazal wrote: > >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: > > EZ> The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" > EZ> and then communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how > EZ> much effort it will be to convert it to use > EZ> festival-freebsoft-utils, > > Just load it on Festival startup (e.g. in /etc/festival.scm). > > EZ> And if one day the italian festival voice will be changed to > EZ> take utf-8, > > Italian Festival voice needn't be changed, Festival should be changed > itself to support UTF-8. > > EZ> However, I have currently no idea how to query a festival voice > EZ> for the preferred encoding. > > The festival-freebsoft-utils call is > > (current-voice-coding) > > e.g.: > > festival> (voice_kal_diphone) > kal_diphone > festival> (current-voice-coding) > ISO-8859-1 > festival> (voice_czech_ph) > czech_ph > festival> (current-voice-coding) > ISO-8859-2 > > EZ> To me it makes a lot of sense to send out data in UTF-8 by > EZ> default: > > Yes. > > EZ> I think that it's the italian voice that is broken in this > EZ> regard. > > No, actually Festival is broken as it doesn't support UTF-8 input, > someone should fix it (but I'm afraid it's a non-trivial task). > > Regards, > > Milan Zamazal > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 06:55:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27B713B02DE for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05272-04 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7DAB3B01B2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvuAo-0000a3-FI for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:53:55 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 51 Message-ID: <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:xyq5D6be7wiyH0v/WllG97UCzOs= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.321 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.220, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.321 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:55:05 -0000 >>>>> "BH" == Bill Haneman writes: BH> So it seems a more general/robust method is needed for BH> determining the correct encoding for the output channel. For BH> some voices it's apparently UTF-8, whereas for most european BH> voices it's "latin 1". Presumably some languages may need BH> latin2, etc. instead... Yes. IMO a reasonable approach is to use the coding declared by the voice and to use ISO-8859-1 if the voice doesn't declare its coding. This is what festival-freebsoft-utils does. Preferably all voices should declare their coding. There's no standard way to do that in Festival; festival-freebsoft-utils introduces just another item in the voice declaration called `coding' for that purpose. It's trivial to add it and it's IMHO better than introducing new configuration options to all the Festival frontends. The festival-freebsoft-utils current-voice-coding function is trivial: (define (current-voice-coding) (or (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice)))) 'ISO-8859-1)) If all you need from festival-freebsoft-utils is this function then there's no need to require the whole festival-freebsoft-utils package to be able to figure out the voice coding. BH> Actually, festival _is_ UTF-8 capable, at least for some voices. It is not. The UTF-8 voices handle the UTF-8 input as a sequence of 8-bit characters. Of course this is far from being comfortable and one can't use many standard Festival functions on such an input. So UTF-8 is used in Festival only for languages which can't represent their character set in an 8-bit coding. Of course, the best way would be to make Festival work with Unicode characters. But I think this is a non-trivial task and apparently nobody works on it. So I'd suggest to use the `coding' voice property workaround described above for now. BH> I still think ISO-8859-1 might be a better 'default' for the BH> festival driver than UTF-8, since as far as I know none of the BH> european voices expect UTF-8 input. Yes. Regards, Milan Zamazal From enrico@enricozini.org Thu Jun 29 10:22:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7911C3B0578 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18271-03 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B93D23B052C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5TEM3eY028650; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:22:03 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvxOy-00087V-OF; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:21:52 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:21:52 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Milan Zamazal Message-ID: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wac7ysb48OaltWcw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.664, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.57 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:22:15 -0000 --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 12:53:55PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote: > Preferably all voices should declare their coding. There's no standard > way to do that in Festival; festival-freebsoft-utils introduces just > another item in the voice declaration called `coding' for that purpose. > It's trivial to add it and it's IMHO better than introducing new > configuration options to all the Festival frontends. > The festival-freebsoft-utils current-voice-coding function is trivial: > (define (current-voice-coding) > (or (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice)))) > 'ISO-8859-1)) > If all you need from festival-freebsoft-utils is this function then > there's no need to require the whole festival-freebsoft-utils package to > be able to figure out the voice coding. I tried, but: festival> (voice_lp_diphone) lp_diphone festival> (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice))) nil So I guess the Italian voice doesn't define that. If you give me a piece of lisp code that adds that definition, I can add it to the Debian and Ubuntu package, and try to push it upstream. With regards to gnome-speech, honoring the encoding seems quite easy. In the function festival_response_sock there is this query: (list 'VOICEDESC:=20 (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) Where %s gets substituted to be the voice name. Besides that maybe is a good idea to refer to parameters by name using assoc rather than by position using nth, it sounds trivial to add another parameter to that and handle it later on. So, if I can get the right help with the LISP code, I can take care of this. Meet me on irc.freenode.net or irc.oftc.net as 'enrico' if you'd like to have a quick session about it. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo+IA9LSwzHl+v6sRAlGPAJ96Nzy2xOcsmeoNJwHixevRz0uNJQCfdXpd fOEYLprvfHa5JEDUAemIt5M= =C4nl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wac7ysb48OaltWcw-- From cerha@brailcom.org Thu Jun 29 11:01:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73EE83B03AE for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21302-07 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gate.brailcom.cz (158-84-244-84.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz [84.244.84.158]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1B6203B0461 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17561 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2006 16:39:40 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.15.2?) (192.168.15.2) by ns.brailcom.xx with SMTP; 29 Jun 2006 16:39:40 +0200 Message-ID: <44A3EB22.9080304@brailcom.org> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:00:50 +0200 From: Tomas Cerha Organization: Brailcom, o.p.s. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, orca-list@gnome.org, speechd@lists.freebsoft.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.085 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.221, BAYES_50=0.001, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.085 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:01:26 -0000 Hello, I would like to announce availability of an EXPERIMENTAL Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca. Please, see http://www.freebsoft.org/~cerha/orca/speech-dispatcher-backend.html for more information. Any feedback is welcome, however, please note that I will not be on-line until July 10. Kindest regards, Tomas -- Brailcom, o.p.s. http://www.brailcom.org Free(b)soft project http://www.freebsoft.org Eurochance project http://eurochance.brailcom.org From enrico@enricozini.org Thu Jun 29 11:03:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C423B042C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21507-07 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (ns2.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE533B03F8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5TF3EOG000406; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:03:15 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fvy2b-0000hI-1R; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:02:49 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:02:48 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Milan Zamazal Message-ID: <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.528 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.622, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.528 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:03:24 -0000 --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 03:21:52PM +0100, Enrico Zini wrote: > So I guess the Italian voice doesn't define that. If you give me a > piece of lisp code that adds that definition, I can add it to the Debian > and Ubuntu package, and try to push it upstream. Found! Happyness: festival> (voice_lp_diphone) lp_diphone festival> (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice))) (coding "ISO-8859-1") Is it ok for it to be defined straight into /usr/share/festival/voices/italian/pc_diphone/festvox/pc_diphone.scm, added at the end like this? (proclaim_voice 'pc_diphone '((language italian) (gender male) (dialect none) (description "This voice provides a Italian male voice using a residual excited LPC diphone synthesis method. The lexicon is provived by a set of letter to sound rules producing pronunciation accents and syllabification. The durations, intonation and prosodic phrasing are minimal but are acceptable for simple examples.") (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) Because if like this is ok, I can upload the new package in Debian and prod the Ubuntu people to pick it up. Not that it would make a big difference since ISO-8859-1 would be a default, but it would set an example for others to follow. BTW, is "coding" a name that comes from some standard or a name that we're inventing right now? Because if we're inventing it right now, then I think I'd prefer "encoding". > (list 'VOICEDESC:=20 > (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) > (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) And I think I can fix this as well: (list 'VOICEDESC: (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) (cadr (assoc 'language (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) (cadr (assoc 'dialect (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) (cadr (assoc 'gender (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) (or (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) "ISO-8859-1")) Now, to properly read and store this data, I have to add an 'encoding' field to GNOME::Speech::VoiceInfo. That would be changing the IDL in gnome-speech. How free am I to do that? What are the side effects of doing it? Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo+uY9LSwzHl+v6sRAhkAAKCQnE/euumT8jec5wt1aZBZFc+uuwCeOHf4 EXCnT/8KVVYD0+fjTfvU59Y= =oiAG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm-- From themuso@themuso.com Thu Jun 29 11:15:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA4E63B03F8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22467-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vscan01.westnet.com.au (vscan01.westnet.com.au [203.10.1.131]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E903B0505 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E678762855 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:18 +0800 (WST) Received: from vscan01.westnet.com.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (vscan01.westnet.com.au [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29279-03 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:18 +0800 (WST) Received: from marlon.yelavich.home (dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au [202.173.132.131]) by vscan01.westnet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id B99C57628A1 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:17 +0800 (WST) Received: (nullmailer pid 26422 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:15:03 -0000 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 01:15:03 +1000 From: Luke Yelavich To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060629151503.GA25557@marlon.yelavich.home> References: <44A3EB22.9080304@brailcom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <44A3EB22.9080304@brailcom.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.422 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.042, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.422 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:15:09 -0000 --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 30, 2006 at 01:00:50AM EST, Tomas Cerha wrote: > Hello, >=20 > I would like to announce availability of an EXPERIMENTAL Speech > Dispatcher backend for Orca. Please, see > http://www.freebsoft.org/~cerha/orca/speech-dispatcher-backend.html for > more information. Any feedback is welcome, however, please note that I > will not be on-line until July 10. Thanks heaps for this. Since Edgy is in development, this will be going=20 straight into the orca package to be included in Edgy. Thanks again. --=20 Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE=20 (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo+53jVefwtBjIM4RAmKKAKDCPHwcbh6r2NazhSnMTcM6AFuuGwCg0x6d kj1qLk5XrsmbxaGJS9fSSSU= =rYjk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb-- From arieltenor@gmail.com Thu Jun 29 11:08:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74D9B3B058F for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:08:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21987-02 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BBE03B0593 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:07:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s15so96609wxc for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.22.6 with SMTP id 6mr3210086wxv; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.67.6 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:07:51 -0500 From: "Ariel Rios" To: "Enrico Zini" In-Reply-To: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.362 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.362 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:19:01 -0400 Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, Milan Zamazal Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:08:06 -0000 > With regards to gnome-speech, honoring the encoding seems quite easy. > In the function festival_response_sock there is this query: > > (list 'VOICEDESC: > (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) > (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) > > Where %s gets substituted to be the voice name. Besides that maybe is a > good idea to refer to parameters by name using assoc rather than by > position using nth, it sounds trivial to add another parameter to that > and handle it later on. I think so. Doing all those nth looks ugly and if you are going to be doing this query constantly it makes sense to the the assoc. > So, if I can get the right help with the LISP code, I can take care of > this. Meet me on irc.freenode.net or irc.oftc.net as 'enrico' if you'd > like to have a quick session about it. I can help with the scheme code. Let me look for you in a minute. ariel From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 11:55:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFD23B00D2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24656-03 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E843B0144 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Fvyr8-0006fP-GC for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:55:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:55:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:53:49 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 65 Message-ID: <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:+80M3HQGRKAuLAbwU4dDIvRgQL0= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.264 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.163, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.264 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:55:09 -0000 >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: EZ> Is it ok for it to be defined straight into EZ> /usr/share/festival/voices/italian/pc_diphone/festvox/pc_diphone.scm, EZ> added at the end like this? EZ> (proclaim_voice EZ> 'pc_diphone EZ> '((language italian) EZ> (gender male) EZ> (dialect none) EZ> (description EZ> "This voice provides a Italian male voice using a EZ> residual excited LPC diphone synthesis method. The lexicon EZ> is provived by a set of letter to sound rules producing pronunciation EZ> accents and syllabification. The durations, intonation and EZ> prosodic phrasing are minimal but are acceptable for simple EZ> examples.") EZ> (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) Yes, except that it's probably better to specify the coding without double quotes: (coding ISO-8859-1) EZ> Because if like this is ok, I can upload the new package in EZ> Debian and prod the Ubuntu people to pick it up. Not that it EZ> would make a big difference since ISO-8859-1 would be a default, EZ> but it would set an example for others to follow. Good idea, thanks! EZ> BTW, is "coding" a name that comes from some standard or a name that EZ> we're inventing right now? I introduced this name in festival-freebsoft-utils. AFAIK it's not used anywhere else and the only voice that declares it is our Czech voice. EZ> Because if we're inventing it right now, then I think I'd prefer EZ> "encoding". Well, I'm not sure which of the two English terms better fits the context. EZ> (list 'VOICEDESC: EZ> (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) EZ> (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) EZ> And I think I can fix this as well: EZ> (list 'VOICEDESC: EZ> (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) EZ> (cadr (assoc 'language (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (cadr (assoc 'dialect (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (cadr (assoc 'gender (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (or EZ> (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> "ISO-8859-1")) Yes, this is the right thing to do. Regards, Milan Zamazal From enrico@enricozini.org Thu Jun 29 12:28:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D09633B034A for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26784-09 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (agnus.ngi.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744AF3B01A9 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5TGRvUj006958; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:27:57 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvzMn-0003yu-E9; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:27:45 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:27:45 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Milan Zamazal Message-ID: <20060629162745.GB480@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="S1BNGpv0yoYahz37" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.492 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.586, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.492 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza (more patch bonanza) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:28:04 -0000 --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/" Content-Disposition: inline --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 05:53:49PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote: > EZ> (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) > Yes, except that it's probably better to specify the coding without > double quotes: (coding ISO-8859-1) Done. I'm not proficient with LISP: what is the difference? > EZ> Because if we're inventing it right now, then I think I'd prefer > EZ> "encoding". > Well, I'm not sure which of the two English terms better fits the > context. 'coding' is ok with me, if it's already used somewhere. > Yes, this is the right thing to do. Good! People, please review the attached patch for gnome-speech to take advantage of the 'coding' attribute. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="recode1.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- festivalsynthesisdriver.c 2006-05-14 15:49:21.000000000 +0100 +++ festivalsynthesisdriver.c.buono 2006-06-29 17:23:25.000000000 +0100 @@ -45,6 +45,8 @@ #undef FESTIVAL_DEBUG_SEND #undef FESTIVAL_DEBUG_TEXT =20 +#define DEFAULT_ENCODING "ISO-8859-1" + static gint text_id =3D 0; static GObjectClass *parent_class; static gboolean festival_server_exists =3D FALSE; @@ -52,6 +54,7 @@ static GSList *driver_list =3D NULL; static GSList *markers_list =3D NULL; static GSList *voices_list =3D NULL; +static GSList *encodings_list =3D NULL; =20 typedef struct { @@ -98,6 +101,37 @@ static void festival_process_text_out (FestivalTextOut *text_out); static void festival_free_list (FestivalSynthesisDriver *d); =20 +static void encoding_set(GNOME_Speech_VoiceInfo* voice, gchar* encoding) +{ + /* First, try to see if we have it already */ + GSList* cur =3D encodings_list; + int len =3D strlen(voice->name); + for ( ; cur !=3D NULL; cur =3D cur->next) + if (strncmp((gchar*)cur->data, voice->name, len) =3D=3D 0) + { + /* If we have it, replace it */ + g_free(cur->data); + cur->data =3D g_strdup_printf("%s:%s", voice->name, encoding); + return; + } + /* Otherwise, insert it */ + encodings_list =3D g_slist_prepend (encodings_list, g_strdup_printf("%s:%= s", voice->name, encoding)); +} + +static gchar* encoding_get(FestivalSpeaker* speaker) +{ + /* Look for the item in the list */ + GSList* cur =3D encodings_list; + int len =3D strlen(speaker->voice); + /* Speaker should be at least "(voice_?)\n" */ + if (len < 10) + return DEFAULT_ENCODING; + for ( ; cur !=3D NULL; cur =3D cur->next) + if (strncmp((gchar*)cur->data, speaker->voice + 7, len - 9) =3D=3D 0) + return (gchar*)cur->data + len - 9 + 1; + /* If not found, default to latin1 */ + return DEFAULT_ENCODING; +} =20 static FestivalTextMarker * festival_text_marker_new () @@ -329,12 +363,19 @@ p =3D strstr (voices[i], ")\n"); if (p !=3D NULL) *p =3D 0;=20 - query_voice_des =3D g_strdup_printf ("(list 'VOICEDESC: " - "(nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) " - "(nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) " - "(nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) " - "(nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))))\n", - voices[i], voices[i], voices[i], voices[i]); + /* Adds an extra nil to help tokenization later */ + query_voice_des =3D g_strdup_printf ( + "(list 'VOICEDESC: " + "(nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) " + "(cadr (assoc 'language (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + "(cadr (assoc 'dialect (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + "(cadr (assoc 'gender (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + "(or " + " (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + " \"" DEFAULT_ENCODING "\") " + "nil)\n", + voices[i], voices[i], voices[i], voices[i], voices[i]); + festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (driver, query_voice_des); voices_waiting_for_description++; g_free (query_voice_des); @@ -349,7 +390,8 @@ voice[1] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[1], "nil") &&=20 voice[2] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[2], "nil") &&=20 voice[3] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[3], "nil") &&=20 - voice[4] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[4], "nil")) + voice[4] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[4], "nil") && + voice[5] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[5], "nil")) { GNOME_Speech_VoiceInfo *new_info; new_info =3D GNOME_Speech_VoiceInfo__alloc (); @@ -360,6 +402,7 @@ else new_info->gender =3D GNOME_Speech_gender_male; voices_list =3D g_slist_append (voices_list, new_info); + encoding_set(new_info, voice[5]); } voices_waiting_for_description--; if (voices_waiting_for_description =3D=3D 0)=20 @@ -932,6 +975,7 @@ festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, s->voice); speaker_refresh_parameters (SPEAKER(s)); d->last_speaker =3D s; + g_io_channel_set_encoding(d->channel_sock, encoding_get(d->last_speak= er), NULL); } =20 clb_list_free (d->crt_clbs); --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/-- --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo/+B9LSwzHl+v6sRAnyPAJ9744vEU1S2Oq/qQevRaK1+GbjZJACfWr4/ dyTACe4V/punjtN0eDQftQI= =i9pI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37-- From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 12:55:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122743B0400 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28305-10 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B473B00D5 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvznC-0000WD-4X for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:55:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:55:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:50:32 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 22 Message-ID: <878xnflxd3.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629162745.GB480@viaza> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:H6u74mUGFPwBjR+c1CCtX3cUt/g= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.23 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.129, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.23 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza (more patch bonanza) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:55:24 -0000 >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: EZ> On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 05:53:49PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote: EZ> (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) >> Yes, except that it's probably better to specify the coding >> without double quotes: (coding ISO-8859-1) EZ> Done. I'm not proficient with LISP: what is the difference? >From the language view, double quoted elements are strings, while those without them are symbols. There is not much difference between strings and symbols in Festival, but it may be good to be consistent with the other voice properties (which are symbols). >From the practical view, symbols are printed without double quotes, i.e. it is slightly easier to read the coding in programs communicating with Festival. Regards, Milan Zamazal From hanke@brailcom.org Thu Jun 29 15:35:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 290343B00D2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05215-04 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out4.iol.cz (smtp-out4.iol.cz [194.228.2.92]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7DB3B00E8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from antivir4.iol.cz (avir4 [192.168.30.209]) by smtp-out4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 832071F8FF5; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (antivir4.iol.cz [127.0.0.1]) by antivir4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 763C6240025; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp-out4.iol.cz (smtp-out-4.iplanet.iol.cz [192.168.30.31]) by antivir4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C0C240024; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.36] (77.93.broadband2.iol.cz [83.208.93.77]) by smtp-out4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D3022AFA2; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Hynek Hanke To: Enrico Zini In-Reply-To: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:34:18 +0200 Message-Id: <1151609659.3329.5.camel@chopin> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at iol.cz X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 03:09:27 -0400 Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, Milan Zamazal Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:35:54 -0000 > So I guess the Italian voice doesn't define that. If you give me a > piece of lisp code that adds that definition, I can add it to the Debian > and Ubuntu package, and try to push it upstream. Would it make sense to also include definitions for the other voices in the list that Gary Cramblitt posted here? With regards, Hynek From daniel.cotto@wanadoo.fr Sun Jun 11 06:04:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6394D3B0092 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02487-04 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.wanadoo.fr (smtp5.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.26]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01F9D3B03C2 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:04:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mlusine (ACaen-152-1-86-248.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr [86.205.244.248]) by mwinf0512.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id C52861C001EC for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:03:11 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20060611100311807.C52861C001EC@mwinf0512.orange.fr From: "Daniel COTTO" To: "GnomeAccessibilityDevel" Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:03:13 +0200 Message-ID: <000301c68d3e$407647a0$0b01a8c0@mlusine> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: AcaNPkAWdeh9Cp6AR+uGUqKI+xaBmg== X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.987 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, DNS_FROM_RFC_POST=1.708, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, TW_GD=0.077] X-Spam-Score: 1.987 X-Spam-Level: * Subject: [g-a-devel] Problem using gnopernicus in the latest debian testing release X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:04:07 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 I=92am just upgrading my debian testing and concequently I got the = testing version of brltty (3.7.2-3) and gnopernicus (1.0.4). The gnome version = used is: 2.14. =20 My problem: * I log from gdm and my num-lock is on. * When I use the numpad key, Gnopernicus seem to run the appropriates commands but the corresponding numeric key is sent to the application, = and so, I write this numbers. =20 An illustration: I=92am in the gnome desktop: I hit the 7 key, an =E8 is echoed in the = inputbox. I do the same thing in mozilla, I can see the title bar. =20 Have you an idea ? =20 Thans =20 Daniel =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

I’am just upgrading my debian testing = and concequently I got the testing version of brltty (3.7.2-3) and gnopernicus (1.0.4). = The gnome version used is: 2.14.

 

My problem:

  • I log = from gdm and my num-lock is on.
  • When I = use the numpad key, Gnopernicus seem to run the appropriates commands but the = corresponding numeric key is sent to the application, and so, I write this = numbers.

 

An illustration:

I’am in the gnome desktop: I hit the 7 = key, an =E8 is echoed in the inputbox. I do the same thing in mozilla, I can see the = title bar.

 

Have you an idea = ?

 

Thans

 

Daniel

 

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C68D4F.040188A0-- From mclasen@redhat.com Mon Jun 12 09:40:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C743B00D4 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04507-04 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFEE3B00A7 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CDGF34023554 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Received: from mail.boston.redhat.com (mail.boston.redhat.com [172.16.76.12]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CDGF1D021144 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Received: from golem.boston.redhat.com (golem.boston.redhat.com [172.16.80.24]) by mail.boston.redhat.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k5CDGFlQ031838 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 From: Matthias Clasen To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:16:15 -0400 Message-Id: <1150118175.15532.6.camel@golem.boston.redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.1 (2.7.1-1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.541 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.541 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 13:40:15 -0000 Are we serious about a11y ? A few weeks ago, I asked about a11y gaps in new GTK+ feature, but I never heard anything back, except from our QA people, who try to use the a11y framework for automated testing. So I finally sat down last night and wrote minimal a11y support for GtkAssistant myself last night. I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. Obviously, that is not happening. I'm tempted to remove the icon view a11y code after 2.10, if nobody steps forward to fix it. Shipping broken code helps nobody... Matthias From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Tue Jun 20 09:58:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 459A33B01B0 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18759-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (imap.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 766BD3B01A8 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NHGK3P7S; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:58:28 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:57:21 -0300 Message-Id: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.784 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.400, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_24_48=0.88, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.784 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:58:27 -0000 Hi guys, I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our community members have in mind about this. If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do this work in older hardware. Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I will start to play. Thanks, --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Tue Jun 20 15:14:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3613B0307 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07651-07 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F9193B01AB for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.39.120]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5KJER4K002898 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-10.sun.com by d1-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1600601API4100@d1-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.20.7] by d1-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J16001HLAS3X9B0@d1-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:14:19 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carlos_Eduardo_Rodrigues_Di=F3genes?= Message-id: <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:14:30 -0000 Hi Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues, I believe the cost of new video cards is coming down so rapidly that the best place for most of our magnification investment is around COMPOSITE. Every customer I come in contact with around UNIX accessibility compares what we are doing to the state of the art in Windows commercial software. And users have come to expect this level of quality, and depend upon the efficiency and productivity that is affords them (and are NOT willing to give that up). I agree that to make good use of COMPOSITE, the magnifier must know about most window manager tasks. I think the best way to do this is to build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window manager(s) of our desktop(s). I don't see a lot of value to keeping the magnifier separate from the window manager. All that said, users who don't have the resources for modern graphics cards are an important group, and your idea of an OverlayWindow is an interesting one. I'm curious to see where that investigation goes! Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > Hi guys, > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > community members have in mind about this. > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > this work in older hardware. > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > will start to play. > > Thanks, > From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Tue Jun 20 15:57:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4323B0155 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10359-01 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (webmail.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A8533B028F for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:57:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NHGK3YKV; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:57:10 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: Peter Korn In-Reply-To: <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:55:15 -0300 Message-Id: <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.78 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.396, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_24_48=0.88, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.78 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:57:58 -0000 Hi Peter, On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 12:14 -0700, Peter Korn wrote: > Hi Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues, >=20 > I believe the cost of new video cards is coming down so rapidly that the=20 > best place for most of our magnification investment is around=20 > COMPOSITE. Every customer I come in contact with around UNIX=20 > accessibility compares what we are doing to the state of the art in=20 > Windows commercial software. And users have come to expect this level=20 > of quality, and depend upon the efficiency and productivity that is=20 > affords them (and are NOT willing to give that up). >=20 > I agree that to make good use of COMPOSITE, the magnifier must know=20 > about most window manager tasks. I think the best way to do this is to=20 > build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window=20 > manager(s) of our desktop(s). I don't see a lot of value to keeping the=20 > magnifier separate from the window manager. I think that compiz make something like this, isn't is? There is anyone that is working on this type of support in metacity? There is any documenation/discussion about magnification support in the compositing window manager? I have doubt if build magnification functionality *into* the compositing window manager is really the rigth place. I think that the best, from this scenario, is some sort of cooperation, but how? I think that looking inside compiz could give me some answears. I don't like the idea to merge these two kinds of applications, I think that if we could maintaim they modular, let's maintaim, for me this is the greatest value in keeping the magnifier separate from the window manager. >=20 > All that said, users who don't have the resources for modern graphics=20 > cards are an important group, and your idea of an OverlayWindow is an=20 > interesting one. I'm curious to see where that investigation goes! >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Peter Korn > Accessibility Architect, > Sun Microsystems, Inc. >=20 > > Hi guys, > > > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > community members have in mind about this. > > > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like cod= e > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server ca= n > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have = a > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > this work in older hardware. > > > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents o= f > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reason= s > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > will start to play. > > > > Thanks, > > =20 >=20 --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From gk4@austin.ibm.com Tue Jun 20 16:50:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B2803B082C for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13556-05 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e5.ny.us.ibm.com (e5.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.145]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3983B04FC for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e5.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5KKo21n023832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:03 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.6/NCO/VER7.0) with ESMTP id k5KKo2Qp274726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:02 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k5KKo1uF012475 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:01 -0400 Received: from gk4.austin.ibm.com (gk4.austin.ibm.com [9.53.33.16]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5KKo10H012423; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:50:01 -0400 From: George Kraft To: "Carlos Eduardo R." =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= In-Reply-To: <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> References: <1150725442.18060.22.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <4498490B.9040009@sun.com> <1150746916.18060.54.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Organization: IBM Corp Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:47:12 -0500 Message-Id: <1150836432.10012.252.camel@gk4.austin.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.489 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.489 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel , xorg@lists.freedesktop.org, Peter Korn Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: gk4@austin.ibm.com List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:50:15 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-19 at 16:55 -0300, Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Diógenes wrote: > There is anyone that is working on this type of support in metacity? > There is any documenation/discussion about magnification support in > the compositing window manager? Soren has stubbed in magnification into metacity. I was going to help, but I've been distracted. Also, I've recently published http://xmcm.sourceforge.net/ Best regards, -- George (gk4) From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Wed Jun 21 08:16:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2D63B0F8E for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03259-01 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.187]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D253B0F37 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so80985nfe for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.34.19 with SMTP id m19mr514346nfj; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 05:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:16:15 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" Sender: skating.tortoise@gmail.com To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7fa2bf341aa83a4f X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.369 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.231, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.369 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:16:19 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From aaronlev@moonset.net Thu Jun 22 09:13:53 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518E83B06D0 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29197-09 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E822A3B0570 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 22 Jun 2006 09:15:34 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,165,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226576714:sNHT26649024" Message-ID: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:13:43 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:13:53 -0000 [Trying to send one more time] Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. Make sense? - Aaron From William.Walker@Sun.COM Thu Jun 22 11:23:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DA6B3B0748 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05496-07 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBBD43B06B2 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-05.sun.com ([192.18.108.179]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5MFNqud011876 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1900E01PA33700@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.106] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1900AC0PFRVS32@mail-amer.sun.com>; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:23:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:23:50 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Aaron Leventhal Message-id: <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.1 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:23:55 -0000 If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to know where the user's current location is in the document, then not emitting this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend upon that as a solution. So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. Thanks! Will On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: > [Trying to send one more time] > > Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For > example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next > item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. > > I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. > Make sense? > > - Aaron > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 13:54:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA773B025B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26527-04 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B6E3B00AD for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 13:56:05 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,162,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226168781:sNHT29208052" Message-ID: <449987C9.3020805@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:54:17 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.392 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.207, BAYES_40=-0.185] X-Spam-Score: -1.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:07 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:54:22 -0000 Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. Make sense? - Aaron From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 23:30:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07D123B026B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24121-09 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C7B3B014B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 23:31:59 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,164,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226452079:sNHT19593734" Message-ID: <449A0EC2.9050209@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:10 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.542 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.057, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:30 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:30:16 -0000 Resending ... first attempt was apparently not approved by the list moderator: From aaron@moonset.net Wed Jun 21 23:30:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9443B02C3 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24103-10 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E213B014B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2006 23:32:33 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,164,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="226452251:sNHT24016468" Message-ID: <449A0EE4.5020200@moonset.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:30:44 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: g-a-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.544 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:15:30 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:30:50 -0000 Resending ... first attempt was apparently not approved by the list moderator: > Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For > example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next > item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. > I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. > Make sense? - Aaron From aaronlev@moonset.net Fri Jun 23 09:03:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2E9A3B07FD for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12466-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (unknown [207.172.4.11]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AEA53B075C for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-180-148-92.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO [192.168.0.6]) ([207.180.148.92]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2006 09:05:27 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,168,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="227155211:sNHT23078846" Message-ID: <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:03:33 -0400 From: Aaron Leventhal User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Willie Walker References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:03:51 -0000 Will, When the caret is invisible the location has to be considered the current focus. I certainly hope the AT is not depending just on the caret, but is following the focus as well. The point about clicking was that it is just one way this invisible caret is moved. About the only affect the invisible caret has is that the next find command will start finding text from there. - Aaron Willie Walker wrote: > If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to know > where the user's current location is in the document, then not emitting > this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an > option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend > upon that as a solution. > > So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. > > Thanks! > > Will > > On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: > >> [Trying to send one more time] >> >> Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For >> example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next >> item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. >> >> I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. >> Make sense? >> >> - Aaron >> _______________________________________________ >> Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list >> Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel >> > > > From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 10:54:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01C23B088E for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18836-03 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.188]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05CA3B0901 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so91380nfe for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.4.17 with SMTP id g17mr2514299nfi; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:54:14 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" Sender: skating.tortoise@gmail.com To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: f682d046db45120e X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.443 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.157, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.443 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:54:17 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From skating.tortoise@gmail.com Fri Jun 23 11:07:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C11ED3B08E6 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19490-06 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.186]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B34AB3B0459 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so93352nfe for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.4.17 with SMTP id g17mr2523841nfi; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.30.13 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 16:07:39 +0100 From: "Chris Jones" To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 15:07:44 -0000 I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? thanks -- Chris Jones jabber - skating.tortoise@gmail.com msn - skating_tortoise@dsl.pipex.com From William.Walker@Sun.COM Fri Jun 23 20:07:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D103B0181 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12949-05 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA883B000A for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fe-amer-06.sun.com ([192.18.108.180]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5O07h9W019563 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1C00C0177J9X00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from William.Walker@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([68.116.197.173]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1C00C5V8CUOG01@mail-amer.sun.com>; Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:07:43 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 20:07:38 -0400 From: Willie Walker In-reply-to: <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> Sender: William.Walker@Sun.COM To: Aaron Leventhal Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <449A9787.8000207@moonset.net> <1150989830.699.19.camel@localhost> <449BE6A5.1050700@moonset.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: Cc: g-a-devel Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Caret moved events for invisible caret? (Resend) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:07:46 -0000 > When the caret is invisible the location has to be considered the > current focus. I certainly hope the AT is not depending just on the > caret, but is following the focus as well. Some classes of AT's, such as a screen reader, care about not only what object has focus, but other information about that object as well. For example, which item(s) are selected in a list, what the value of a slider is, and where the caret is in a text object. Will > > The point about clicking was that it is just one way this invisible > caret is moved. About the only affect the invisible caret has is that > the next find command will start finding text from there. > > - Aaron > > > Willie Walker wrote: >> If an assistive technology is depending upon the caret location to >> know >> where the user's current location is in the document, then not >> emitting >> this information is bad. In addition, clicking is usually only an >> option for people who can use the mouse, so cannot necessarily depend >> upon that as a solution. >> >> So, at first blush, I think you should emit the caret movement event. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Will >> >> On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 09:13 -0400, Aaron Leventhal wrote: >> >>> [Trying to send one more time] >>> >>> Firefox sometimes moves the caret even when it is not visible. For >>> example, if the user tabs, the caret is moved right before the next >>> item. If the user clicks on text content, the caret is moved there. >>> >>> I am planning to suppress caret move events when the caret is hidden. >>> Make sense? >>> >>> - Aaron >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list >>> Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org >>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel >>> >> >> >> From enrico@enricozini.org Sat Jun 24 07:13:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0053B02C1; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09160-07; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45FC13B006E; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 07:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5OBDf7s005708; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:13:41 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fu64i-0006Mo-Ds; Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:13:16 +0100 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:13:16 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ibTvN161/egqYuK8" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Subject: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 11:13:47 -0000 --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I'm trying to look more into the problems I'm having with the speech support on Dapper (see my mail with subject "Fixing brittle speech support on Dapper" from June, 10th, which strangely isn't showing up in the archives at http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/200= 6-June/thread.html). I started reading through gnome-speech source code. I noticed that it runs festival as a server and talks to it. This makes us have a screen reader that talks CORBA to a server that talks TCP/IP to another server who then does the synthesis. That's too many passages in which something can go wrong. Instinctively, I'm considering rewriting the festival driver to using the C API rather than the festival server. The C API of Festival is just as simple as this: http://rafb.net/paste/results/I7trk068.html I'll look into it a bit more, writing some test code to talk to the CORBA festival driver as well as test code for the festival C/C++ API, so that I can gain familiarity with both things. Any reasons why this hasn't been done yet? In the meantime, however, before I hurt my brain too much with this, what's the overall situation? Is it worth the effort of fixing gnome-speech, or is the effort better spend on making something else work? I'm already quite frustrated of not getting any sort of answer on the list for this problem that is getting me totally stuck (and thank Luke Yelavich for mora support on IRC), and I don't know how I would cope if I spent time and effort on this just to hear as soon as I've finished that everyone's moving to speech-dispatcher or some other kind of a totally different technology. If it's not worth spending efforts on gnome-speech, please let me know what I can use to replace it, since it doesn't work for me. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEnR5M9LSwzHl+v6sRAvfXAJ96YsbY8wqms77UDb9GCEEkTBctXgCdHWgz kdeLwfWldHDFD8gNgZRK8LU= =0xvb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ibTvN161/egqYuK8-- From cerha@brailcom.org Mon Jun 26 05:14:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96163B0124 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04277-06 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gate.brailcom.cz (158-84-244-84.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz [84.244.84.158]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B750E3B0174 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11545 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2006 10:52:49 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.15.2?) (192.168.15.2) by ns.brailcom.xx with SMTP; 26 Jun 2006 10:52:49 +0200 Message-ID: <449FA559.1050508@brailcom.org> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:14:01 +0200 From: Tomas Cerha Organization: Brailcom, o.p.s. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org References: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> In-Reply-To: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.463 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.858, BAYES_20=-0.74, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.463 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:14:16 -0000 Enrico Zini wrote: > Hello, > In the meantime, however, before I hurt my brain too much with this, > what's the overall situation? Is it worth the effort of fixing > gnome-speech, or is the effort better spend on making something else > work? Hi Enrico, I'm currently working on Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca. This bypasses the Gnome Speech layer completely. Since Speech Dispatcher offers several speech synthesizers not supported by Gnome Speech, this may be essential for some people and the Orca -> Gnome Speech -> Speech Dispatcher -> synthesizer aproach has inherent problems. This might solve your problem too. Please, see also the common "TTS API" draft at http://www.freebsoft.org/tts-api. This is a common effort of Free Desktop and FSG. Best regards, Tomas -- Brailcom, o.p.s. http://www.brailcom.org Free(b)soft project http://www.freebsoft.org Eurochance project http://eurochance.brailcom.org From enrico@enricozini.org Mon Jun 26 08:44:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCDA03B0387; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:44:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18426-01; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FC23B02F7; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5QCihKc011937; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:44:43 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FuqNo-0003eT-1a; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:40:04 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:40:03 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Tomas Cerha Message-ID: <20060626124003.GA13572@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: Tomas Cerha , gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org References: <20060624111316.GA20448@viaza> <449FA559.1050508@brailcom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <449FA559.1050508@brailcom.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.456 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.456 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Fixing gnome-speech X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:44:48 -0000 --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 11:14:01AM +0200, Tomas Cerha wrote: > I'm currently working on Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca. This > bypasses the Gnome Speech layer completely. Since Speech Dispatcher > offers several speech synthesizers not supported by Gnome Speech, this > may be essential for some people and the Orca -> Gnome Speech -> Speech > Dispatcher -> synthesizer aproach has inherent problems. This might > solve your problem too. >=20 > Please, see also the common "TTS API" draft at > http://www.freebsoft.org/tts-api. This is a common effort of Free > Desktop and FSG. Cool. Is there a way I can use all of this right now on Dapper? Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEn9Wj9LSwzHl+v6sRAofUAJ9rGqFPNo5F+9EKH1UOKSt32EG0nwCfZZUp 64toiGSrN/swh06OHchQyCY= =hVic -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 10:49:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71B7A3B0124 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:49:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25701-04 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367823B017B for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QEmdiH024863 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 08:48:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H008012BMA0@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:48:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H008072H345@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:48:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:49:51 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Message-id: <1151333390.7079.11.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Slow keys dialog X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:49:02 -0000 Hi Chris: The answer is, "don't implement sticky keys in your keyboard". You should be using the system-wide StickyKeys settings and feature instead (as GOK does). Interfering with the normal operation of the system wide setting (i.e clashing with it as your app does), is itself an accessibility violation. (There are several gconf keys you can use to turn sticky keys on and off - see those under /desktop/gnome/accessibility/keyboard) Bill > I've implemented sticky keys in my onscreen keyboard. When shift is > stuck down it causes the slow keys dialogue to appear. Is there a way > to suppress this dialog whilst my app is running? > > thanks > > > -- > Chris Jones From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 11:35:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AC673B0455 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29080-01 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4549A3B048F for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QFZ73i010232 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:35:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H00E014M3JB@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:35:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H008ZS4MI45@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:35:06 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:36:18 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Message-id: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:35:19 -0000 > Hi guys, > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > community members have in mind about this. Hi Carlos: I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that was available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it didn't' look like a lot of code. I believe that basically we'd just need to use Composite's capability to prune the window tree, separate our magnifier window out, and render only that window to the screen after compositing directly into it. Why is it not that straightforward? I don't understand the problem you seem concerned about... regards, Bill > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > this work in older hardware. > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > will start to play. > > Thanks, From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 11:44:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C4D53B04D3 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29613-10 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6AE53B017D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QFiq8T016353 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:44:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H00I01507Z9@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:44:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H0087R52S45@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:44:52 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:46:03 +0100 From: Bill Haneman To: mclasen@redhat.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-id: <1151336763.7079.60.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.578 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.020, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.578 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:44:55 -0000 Hi Matthias: I've been away for a number of weeks as you may know, and have just re-joined this list. > Are we serious about a11y ? Well, are we? You seem to imply here that it's something "those a11y folks" are supposed to do. I don't think it can work that way; if 'we' (i.e. Gnome/Free-Software developers) want accessibility to work, then we all need to share the labor, since it's a big task. > A few weeks ago, I asked about a11y gaps in new GTK+ feature, > but I never heard anything back, except from our QA people, who > try to use the a11y framework for automated testing. > > So I finally sat down last night and wrote minimal a11y > support for GtkAssistant myself last night. Great, that's fantastic! Thanks for doing what I suggest above, i.e. helping make new code accessible as part of the ordinary process of Gnome/GTK+ development. > I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been > broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ > under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. I didn't know there was any a11y code in gtk+ proper yet, usually it's all in gail. Could you explain? > Obviously, that is not happening. Obviously? I don't know about this. > I'm tempted to remove the > icon view a11y code after 2.10, if nobody steps forward to > fix it. Shipping broken code helps nobody... Well, are there bugs against it? Threatening to pull code doesn't help. I'd also like to note that there seemed to be consensus about a year ago that gail should be folded into gtk+ instead of kept as a separate library, because of various maintenance issues. I think that's a great idea. Note that we do desperately need help to maintain gail, since currently the co-maintainer is not really available to work on it and I am spending virtually all of my time on other high-priority accessibility issues. So please help us with patches and bugfixes. Bill > Matthias > From enrico@enricozini.org Mon Jun 26 12:21:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2663B0436 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32045-03 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8A23B03C6 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5QGLRcQ002275 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:21:27 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Futns-0002F5-7C for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:19:12 +0100 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:19:12 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060626161912.GA7775@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.459 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.005, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.459 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] gnome-speech festival driver problems explained X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:21:31 -0000 --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (sort of) Hi. After studying the (uncommented) festival driver source code, I got to some conclusions: - the Italian speech synthesis doesn't like speaking nothingness: $ festival Festival Speech Synthesis System 1.4.3:release Jan 2003 Copyright (C) University of Edinburgh, 1996-2003. All rights reserved. For details type `(festival_warranty)' festival> (SayText "") # festival> (SayText " ") # festival> (voice_lp_diphone) lp_diphone festival> (SayText " ") SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val festival> (SayText "") SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val festival> - the festival driver sends LOTS of nothingness: festivalsynthesisdriver.c:945: festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \""); festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "\")\r\n"); festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \"\")\r\n"); basically, after every string that is sent, and empty string is sent. Why? No idea. A comment explaining why would really have helped. - festival_synthesis_driver_is_speaking is broken: when festival has only one wave in the audio spooler, it says that the queue is empty. I enabled debugging info in the driver, and every single time it queried the audio queue, it's always been reported empty, even if it was actually speaking. - I tried simplifying the interaction a bit: I got rid of all the (useless) audio queue enquiries and I simplified the way text is sent, sending all in a single bunch: escaped_string =3D g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1+20); strcpy(escaped_string, "(SayText \""); ptr1 =3D text; ptr2 =3D escaped_string + strlen(escaped_string); while (ptr1 && *ptr1) { if (*ptr1 =3D=3D '\"' || *ptr1 =3D=3D '\\') *ptr2++ =3D '\\'; *ptr2++ =3D *ptr1++; } *ptr2++ =3D '"'; *ptr2++ =3D ')'; *ptr2++ =3D '\r'; *ptr2++ =3D '\n'; *ptr2 =3D 0; [...] festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); oh, and I also escaped \ characters, which weren't escaped before (security risk? I didn't investigate).=20 The result was that things were a little bit more stable, but not much. Sound would stop (reliably reproducible by hitting ALT+F1 to go to the panel menu), but switching window with ALT+Tab would usually bring it back. However, sometimes gnopernicus wouldn't read its own menu entries unless one plays with ALT+Tab a bit more. So, it seems that window switching has a therapeutic influence here. When sound stops, what happens is that gnopernicus doesn't send data to the speech driver at all. I suspect that what happens is that the driver status reporting is confusing gnopernicus somehow. I tried to rewrite the festival driver using the festival C++ API instead of the pipeline to a festival server, but got stuck with the audio output: the festival audio scheduler has unreliable status report, and I'd have to implement a queryable and interruptible audio scheduler, which is something I'd spend days doing because I'm not familiar with glib even loops and esd/gstreamer programming. So, problems identified so far: - italian voices hate empty/blank strings - the driver sends lots of empty strings. The errors should be ignored by the server, though. - is_speaking report is unreliable - gnopernicus tends to stop sending data to the festival driver, possibly because of getting confused by the driver status reports. Switching windows seems to shake gnopernicus back to normal. - the way SayText strings are constructed should be improved, see the code snipped above. I'm sorry I didn't pinpoint the problems better, but the festival driver's code is full of enqueuing callbacks into lists and glib event queues, and is hard to follow for me. I would have liked to write the author and work on it together, but it's basically anonymous (it just says "Sun Microsystem"). I tried with orca as well, which seems to be more reliable in sending data to the speech driver, until at some point it caused all my desktop to hung up to the point of needing a CTRL+ALT+Backspace to restart X. I'll now try to work out how to make the festival voices work fine with empty/blank strings. I would be happy if someone can tell me what door to knock regarding the gnome-speech festival driver internals. =20 Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEoAj/9LSwzHl+v6sRAt4uAJ9kfJKR5qeaLfvDLuRLUwoR5mG9fACdEBVL TbENT/HLSKuN2IJDVy1HJhc= =Hi5Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --X1bOJ3K7DJ5YkBrT-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Mon Jun 26 12:50:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D91D83B009A for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01334-03 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com (brmea-mail-4.Sun.COM [192.18.98.36]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AF063B035F for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5QGoQ40028657 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1H00L017XYOP@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:50:26 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-117-202.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.117.202]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1H00G1I841KL@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:50:26 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:51:37 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060626161912.GA7775@viaza> To: Enrico Zini Message-id: <1151340697.7079.69.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060626161912.GA7775@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, TW_WC=0.077, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-speech festival driver problems explained X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:50:38 -0000 Hi Enrico: I am glad you are getting somewhere with your investigations. Thanks for the detective work. The copyright statement is not usually a helpful place to look if you are asking yourself, "who wrote this"? You might look at viewcvs (cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-speech), you can even get line-by-line attribution on exactly who committed a piece of code to CVS. Also the ChangeLog in the main gnome-speech directory may help you. Will Walker is currently maintaining gnome-speech, though he did not write the festival driver. I believe Remus Draica of BAUM committed a lot of the code which handles callbacks and "completion" notifications. Try rd at baum dot ro. I am pretty sure one reason we didn't use the C API for festival is difficulty with the audio scheduler. Also, note that festival has changed a bit since we first wrote the driver, so possibly some things have changed/broken in the interaction with recent festival versions. It should be easy to strip the "empty" or whitespace strings from the driver, and this seems like a harmless thing to do at least. If you prepare a patch that does this I'd be happy to commit it for you. If orca is working better, you might stick with that, and you may be able to get some assistance from Will Walker (william dot walker at sun dot com). best regards, Bill On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 17:19, Enrico Zini wrote: > (sort of) > > Hi. > > After studying the (uncommented) festival driver source code, I got to > some conclusions: > > - the Italian speech synthesis doesn't like speaking nothingness: > > $ festival > Festival Speech Synthesis System 1.4.3:release Jan 2003 > Copyright (C) University of Edinburgh, 1996-2003. All rights reserved. > For details type `(festival_warranty)' > festival> (SayText "") > # > festival> (SayText " ") > # > festival> (voice_lp_diphone) > lp_diphone > festival> (SayText " ") > SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val > festival> (SayText "") > SIOD ERROR: wrong type of argument to get_c_val > festival> > > - the festival driver sends LOTS of nothingness: > > festivalsynthesisdriver.c:945: > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \""); > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "\")\r\n"); > > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \"\")\r\n"); > > basically, after every string that is sent, and empty string is sent. > Why? No idea. A comment explaining why would really have helped. > > - festival_synthesis_driver_is_speaking is broken: when festival has > only one wave in the audio spooler, it says that the queue is empty. > I enabled debugging info in the driver, and every single time it > queried the audio queue, it's always been reported empty, even if it > was actually speaking. > > - I tried simplifying the interaction a bit: I got rid of all the > (useless) audio queue enquiries and I simplified the way text is > sent, sending all in a single bunch: > > escaped_string = g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1+20); > strcpy(escaped_string, "(SayText \""); > ptr1 = text; > ptr2 = escaped_string + strlen(escaped_string); > while (ptr1 && *ptr1) > { > if (*ptr1 == '\"' || *ptr1 == '\\') > *ptr2++ = '\\'; > *ptr2++ = *ptr1++; > } > *ptr2++ = '"'; > *ptr2++ = ')'; > *ptr2++ = '\r'; > *ptr2++ = '\n'; > *ptr2 = 0; > [...] > festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); > > oh, and I also escaped \ characters, which weren't escaped before > (security risk? I didn't investigate). > > The result was that things were a little bit more stable, but not much. > Sound would stop (reliably reproducible by hitting ALT+F1 to go to the > panel menu), but switching window with ALT+Tab would usually bring it > back. However, sometimes gnopernicus wouldn't read its own menu entries > unless one plays with ALT+Tab a bit more. So, it seems that window > switching has a therapeutic influence here. > > When sound stops, what happens is that gnopernicus doesn't send data to > the speech driver at all. I suspect that what happens is that the > driver status reporting is confusing gnopernicus somehow. > > I tried to rewrite the festival driver using the festival C++ API > instead of the pipeline to a festival server, but got stuck with the > audio output: the festival audio scheduler has unreliable status report, > and I'd have to implement a queryable and interruptible audio scheduler, > which is something I'd spend days doing because I'm not familiar with > glib even loops and esd/gstreamer programming. > > So, problems identified so far: > > - italian voices hate empty/blank strings > - the driver sends lots of empty strings. The errors should be ignored > by the server, though. > - is_speaking report is unreliable > - gnopernicus tends to stop sending data to the festival driver, > possibly because of getting confused by the driver status reports. > Switching windows seems to shake gnopernicus back to normal. > - the way SayText strings are constructed should be improved, see the > code snipped above. > > I'm sorry I didn't pinpoint the problems better, but the festival > driver's code is full of enqueuing callbacks into lists and glib event > queues, and is hard to follow for me. I would have liked to write the > author and work on it together, but it's basically anonymous (it just > says "Sun Microsystem"). > > I tried with orca as well, which seems to be more reliable in sending > data to the speech driver, until at some point it caused all my desktop > to hung up to the point of needing a CTRL+ALT+Backspace to restart X. > > I'll now try to work out how to make the festival voices work fine with > empty/blank strings. I would be happy if someone can tell me what door > to knock regarding the gnome-speech festival driver internals. > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From mclasen@redhat.com Mon Jun 26 13:00:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A31C3B017D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01856-01 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [66.187.233.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 886EE3B042D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5QH0JQG020601; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:19 -0400 Received: from lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (lacrosse.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.154]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5QH0E5S015427; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:14 -0400 Received: from [172.16.83.129] (vpn83-129.boston.redhat.com [172.16.83.129]) by lacrosse.corp.redhat.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k5QH0DJb024353; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:00:14 -0400 From: Matthias Clasen To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151336763.7079.60.camel@linux.site> References: <1151336763.7079.60.camel@linux.site> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Red Hat Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:02:29 -0400 Message-Id: <1151341349.3063.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.7.3 (2.7.3-2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.547 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.547 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] GTK+ a11y X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:00:23 -0000 On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 16:46 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > I also note that the icon view a11y implementation has been > > broken for a long time. This code has been accepted into GTK+ > > under the premise that we would get help with maintaining it. > > I didn't know there was any a11y code in gtk+ proper yet, > usually it's all in gail. Could you explain? The icon view a11y code was already inside GTK+, since we didn't want to expose all the innards that would be required to do the a11y implementation in gail. The original implemenation was done by Padraig, but he is doing other things now, right ? The code needs to be updated to work with the cell renderer based approach that is used in GTK+ >= 2.8. I started to look into that myself, but didn't get very far... > > Obviously, that is not happening. > > Obviously? I don't know about this. > Sorry I the sound of my message was too harsh; I still care about accessibility, obviously :-) Matthias From cerdiogenes@yahoo.com.br Mon Jun 26 13:31:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF943B046C for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03384-09 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:31:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cac-bdc03.unioeste.br (webmail.unioeste.br [200.201.8.21]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 479AF3B042D for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:31:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kodorna.unioeste.br (200.201.81.39 [200.201.81.39]) by cac-bdc03.unioeste.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id NP315MWW; Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:34:13 -0300 From: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Di=F3genes?= To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:33:38 -0300 Message-Id: <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Dropline GNOME Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.693 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.476, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=1.247, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.693 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:31:39 -0000 Hi Bill, On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 16:36 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > Hi guys, > >=20 > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > community members have in mind about this. >=20 > Hi Carlos: >=20 > I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features= =20 > just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), > it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic=20 > to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that > was available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it=20 > didn't' look like a lot of code. We must emulate some of the window-manager-like features to know about what is happening with the windows, so we can a fine control what must be composed, because without a good use of what we must compose we will push down perfomance. I don't think that it's a premature optimization, because I don't think in it like the right solution. We don't need do duplicate efforts. The xserver can do this work for us so more easy. Moreover, putting this in the xserver we will being creating the mechanisms to improve the gnome-mag, or anyother magnifier, API a lot and with a lot of flexibility and less code. How Composite does the things is more suitable to applications that want to add a eye-kind desktop to the user and low-vision users don't like this, for they the desktop must be the as simple as possible, without effects. They prefer static things. >=20 > I believe that basically we'd just need to use Composite's capability > to prune the window tree, separate our magnifier window out, and=20 > render only that window to the screen after compositing directly > into it. =20 It will so much easy if we can ask a piece of the window, manipulate it like we want (using xrender or any other mechanism/algorithm) and then draw in the magnifier window (the only window that goes to screen memory). The changes to gnome-mag will be minors. >=20 > Why is it not that straightforward? I don't understand the problem=20 > you seem concerned about... Because we must implement a composite manager or embbed magnifier logic in window-managers. The first will only have good performance in good computers with good video cards. This is not a big problem, since the prices are lowering more and more, but we still with a glue code in the application that can be avoided. The later sounds very terrible to me, since magnifiers and window-managers are to distinct things. I, like a magnifier developer don't want to worry in my code with some question related about window-manager, and I think that the vice-versa is true. Moreover, a window-manager is a policy while, for me and I think to you too, the magnifier service is a mechanism. >=20 > regards, >=20 > Bill >=20 > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like cod= e > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server ca= n > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have = a > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > this work in older hardware. > >=20 > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents o= f > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > >=20 > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reason= s > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > will start to play. > >=20 > > Thanks, >=20 --=20 Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Di=F3genes Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Tue Jun 27 08:22:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B33353B0072 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:22:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28053-08 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948CC3B0012 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5RBi0V7019064 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 05:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1I00601OHMXN@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:43:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from dhcp-226-143.Ireland.Sun.COM (dhcp-226-143.Ireland.Sun.COM [129.156.226.143]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1I00F8WOLB70@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:43:59 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:45:11 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> To: Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues =?UTF-8?Q?Di=C3=B3genes?= Message-id: <1151408711.7842.10.camel@dhcp-226-143.ireland.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.507 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.091, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.507 X-Spam-Level: Cc: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:22:35 -0000 On Sun, 2006-06-25 at 18:33, Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Diógenes wrote: > Hi Bill, > > On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 16:36 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > I was thinking about gnome-mag and full screen magnification. The only > > > way that we can achieve this feature today is throw composite, but I > > > really doubt if we must use this technology, so I want to here what our > > > community members have in mind about this. > > > > Hi Carlos: > > > > I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features > > just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), > > it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic > > to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that > > was available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it > > didn't' look like a lot of code. > > We must emulate some of the window-manager-like features to know about > what is happening with the windows, so we can a fine control what must > be composed, because without a good use of what we must compose we will > push down perfomance. I don't think I agree with your assessment. Perhaps you could be more explicit? Why would we need to do more clipping/checking that the existing compositing manager? At most, we would want to keep track of the current magnified viewport. > I don't think that it's a premature optimization, > because I don't think in it like the right solution. We don't need do > duplicate efforts. The xserver can do this work for us so more easy. I don't recommend this - we had extensive discussions with the XServer development community about magnification needs, and Composite is what we got. Writing a new Xserver extension, and getting it accepted, which is what you are proposing, doesn't seem like a reasonable thing to do until we first try to make full use of the new XServer extension that was already written in part to try and solve our magnification issues. regards, Bill > Moreover, putting this in the xserver we will being creating the > mechanisms to improve the gnome-mag, or anyother magnifier, API a lot > and with a lot of flexibility and less code. > > How Composite does the things is more suitable to applications that want > to add a eye-kind desktop to the user and low-vision users don't like > this, for they the desktop must be the as simple as possible, without > effects. They prefer static things. > > > > > I believe that basically we'd just need to use Composite's capability > > to prune the window tree, separate our magnifier window out, and > > render only that window to the screen after compositing directly > > into it. > > It will so much easy if we can ask a piece of the window, manipulate it > like we want (using xrender or any other mechanism/algorithm) and then > draw in the magnifier window (the only window that goes to screen > memory). The changes to gnome-mag will be minors. > > > > > Why is it not that straightforward? I don't understand the problem > > you seem concerned about... > > Because we must implement a composite manager or embbed magnifier logic > in window-managers. The first will only have good performance in good > computers with good video cards. This is not a big problem, since the > prices are lowering more and more, but we still with a glue code in the > application that can be avoided. The later sounds very terrible to me, > since magnifiers and window-managers are to distinct things. I, like a > magnifier developer don't want to worry in my code with some question > related about window-manager, and I think that the vice-versa is true. > Moreover, a window-manager is a policy while, for me and I think to you > too, the magnifier service is a mechanism. > > > > > regards, > > > > Bill > > > > > If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code > > > in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must > > > track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can > > > generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be > > > showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to > > > maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a > > > good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with > > > composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a > > > big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do > > > this work in older hardware. > > > > > > Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit > > > the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, > > > something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of > > > all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root > > > window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. > > > > > > I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons > > > to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try > > > this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I > > > will start to play. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > -- > Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues Diógenes > Projeto xLupa - http://www.unioeste.br/projetos/xlupa > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From gk4@austin.ibm.com Tue Jun 27 14:39:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36343B0110 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12817-01 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e3.ny.us.ibm.com (e3.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.143]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4BE43B00A6 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5RIbt75014141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:55 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.6/NCO/VER7.0) with ESMTP id k5RIbs2s242296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:54 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k5RIbsX3011385 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:54 -0400 Received: from gk4.austin.ibm.com (gk4.austin.ibm.com [9.53.33.16]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5RIbsAg011344; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:37:54 -0400 From: George Kraft To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151408711.7842.10.camel@dhcp-226-143.ireland.sun.com> References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> <1151408711.7842.10.camel@dhcp-226-143.ireland.sun.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: IBM Corp Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:34:50 -0500 Message-Id: <1151433290.6050.21.camel@gk4.austin.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.491 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.491 X-Spam-Level: Cc: xorg@lists.freedesktop.org, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list Reply-To: gk4@austin.ibm.com List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:39:18 -0000 On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 12:45 +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > I don't see why we have to emulate all those window-manager-like features > just to use Composite. When I looked at this (well over a year ago), > it seemed to me that we only needed to add magnification logic > to a simple compositing manager like the existing one that > as available with the XOrg composite client code. At the time it > didn't' look like a lot of code. Carlos, Here is an opportunity to enhance magnification to the existing composite client code. :-) http://lwn.net/Articles/181272/ http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/libcm/src/magnifier.c?rev=1.5&view=log http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-devel-list/2006-April/msg00971.html $ USE_MAGNIFIER=1 metacity --replace & -- George (gk4) From Peter.Korn@Sun.COM Tue Jun 27 17:15:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79D343B00CC for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17346-08 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (nwkea-pix-1.sun.com [192.18.42.249]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059743B006C for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d1-sfbay-06.sun.com ([192.18.39.116]) by nwkea-pix-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5RLFK0x017095 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.d1-sfbay-06.sun.com by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0J1J00601ENSVJ00@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com> (original mail from Peter.Korn@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.150.23.60] by d1-sfbay-06.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1J003FUF1I4M80@d1-sfbay-06.sun.com>; Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:15:16 -0700 From: Peter Korn In-reply-to: <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> Sender: Peter.Korn@Sun.COM To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carlos_Eduardo_Rodrigues_Di=F3genes?= Message-id: <44A19FE4.3020507@sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <1151336177.7079.49.camel@linux.site> <1151256818.1337.62.camel@kodorna.unioeste.br> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.054, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.544 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Bill Haneman , gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, xorg@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] gnome-mag, full screen magnication and composite X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 21:15:58 -0000 Hi Carlos, Excerpting from the end of your e-mail: > Because we must implement a composite manager or embbed magnifier logic > in window-managers. The first will only have good performance in good > computers with good video cards. This is not a big problem, since the > prices are lowering more and more, but we still with a glue code in the > application that can be avoided. The later sounds very terrible to me, > since magnifiers and window-managers are to distinct things. I, like a > magnifier developer don't want to worry in my code with some question > related about window-manager, and I think that the vice-versa is true. > Moreover, a window-manager is a policy while, for me and I think to you > too, the magnifier service is a mechanism. > Magnifiers and Window Managers have been distinct things up until now. But I am not convinced that is necessarily a good thing. I believe the fundamental purpose of magnification software is to enable someone with any of a variety of visual impairments to be able to: a. see what is on the screen b. track specific regions on the screen - either mouse interactions, text caret, keyboard focus, OR other things that may be updating (e.g. multiple "zoom regions", tracking changes to a formula bar in a spreadsheet) c. find things that they want to interact with d. otherwise use the desktop & computer to accomplish the same sorts of things as everyone else Looking at these tasks, basic magnification can accomplish (a). Tracking things (for task (b)) needs the magnifier to be driven by things like at-spi, and a lot of logic to do this is in Gnopernicus & Orca (with more coming over time). But when it comes to (c), there are things that would be nice to do that we haven't really gotten to yet, on any platform. Products like ZoomText and inLARGE had modes to toggle back and forth between unmagnified & magnified views (with a heavy 'border lens' showing where the user was relative to the entire desktop). Gnopernicus has a 'proportional' mode that uses the mouse location on the magnified view to indicate where the mouse is on the entire desktop. But these are really somewhat limited tools. However, some of the things that COMPOSITE gives us, and some of the features in the new window managers, suggest some very interesting new opportunities for helping users find things. For example, why not have the magnifier zoom a specific window to the entire screen? Or zoom a pair of windows to sharing the entire magnified screen? Or overlay some notification information to a portion of an otherwise magnified screen? Such tasks are essentially "window manager" tasks, yet when combined with magnification they can offer some interesting potential improvements for efficiency and productivity for users with vision impairments - rather than relying on a magnifier to do the magnification, and a window manager to hopefully do some of these sorts of things, and try to get the magnifier to try to optimize the end-user result. Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Architect, Sun Microsystems, Inc. > >> regards, >> >> Bill >> >> >>> If we use composite in gnome-mag we must have a window-manager like code >>> in it to manage windows that come and goes, windows overlap, so we must >>> track a lot of events and use clip lists, I don't know if the server can >>> generate clip list to us, to render only the window parts the will be >>> showed in the screen. I think that we can make a good job on this to >>> maintaim the magnifier responsive in the case that the user don't have a >>> good video card, but we still with a memory problem, because with >>> composite each window is maintained in off-screen memory. This is not a >>> big problem to new video cards, but I think that we could, and must do >>> this work in older hardware. >>> >>> Another solution that is hitting my head is that we could change a bit >>> the server, so we put the magnifier window in top of all others, >>> something like the OverlayWindow in composite, and paint the contents of >>> all windows below it in a pixmap with the same properties of the root >>> window using the same algorithm that is already used in the server. >>> >>> I think that this second solution is better, but maybe there are reasons >>> to doesn't try it there I don't realize here. I'm very motivated to try >>> this, so if there isn't any good arguments to forget this possibility I >>> will start to play. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 09:59:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74633B017A; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14201-04; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (agnus.ngi.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA8D3B01E2; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SDwIwD028281; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:58:18 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvaXC-000293-Dz; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:56:50 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:56:50 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060628135650.GA6628@viaza> Mail-Followup-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.447 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.447 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Probably found the problem with the Italian synthesis X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:59:16 -0000 --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, might be around here: $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language english $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language finnish SIOD ERROR: damaged env : # $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language spanish $ echo "Evviva il Per=C3=BA" | festival --tts --language italian LTS_Ruleset italian_downcase: no rule matches: LTS_Ruleset: # P e r *here* =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD # $ =2E..especially when this comes out of the log of a crashed orca session: # grep SPEECH debug.out |tail SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Grafica menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Up' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Giochi menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Up' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Audio & Video menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Up' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Accessori menu' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Right' SPEECH OUTPUT: 'Alacarte - Editor di men=C3=B9' I'll now try to work on it a bit. In the meantime, I patched audsp in festival to also report the currently playing sample in the playing list. This makes two useful patches that I should start to extract properly and send around, but my main priority is still having a long-lasting Italian speech experience. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEooqi9LSwzHl+v6sRAqtrAJ9y2yxCiWlh3jbH/nxrzqMVyCh9MACghPal qzCsGZJ+BpKwEwJ3zDeEXi8= =FyyJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N-- From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 12:08:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462033B00A7 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19610-06 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7982C3B01CD for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SG7rpH001308; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:07:53 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvcTl-00029Z-Vx; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:01:26 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:01:25 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 16:08:39 -0000 --SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR" Content-Disposition: inline --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, finally, I'm attaching patches: audsp-queue.patch Patch for festival's audsp to also report the currently playing file on (audio_mode 'query) This seems to bring no particular improvement. I suspect that gnopernicus doesn't need the is_speaking function too badly, after all? unclutter.patch Patch for gnome-speech festival driver to send a single, more compact SayText command, and to avoid sending empty strings or string containing only blanks. This is mainly a cosmetic patch. recode.patch Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 instead of utf-8. This fixes the Italian voices! Hooray!! Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="unclutter.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- /home/enrico/src/orig/gnome-speech-0.4.0/drivers/festival/festivalsynth= esisdriver.c 2006-05-14 16:49:21.000000000 +0200 +++ festivalsynthesisdriver.c 2006-06-28 17:43:04.252707768 +0200 @@ -35,6 +35,7 @@ #include #include #include +#include #include "festivalsynthesisdriver.h" #include "festivalspeaker.h" =20 @@ -910,21 +911,29 @@ { gchar *escaped_string; gchar *ptr1, *ptr2; + int spaces_only =3D 1; =20 g_assert (IS_FESTIVAL_SYNTHESIS_DRIVER (d) && IS_FESTIVALSPEAKER (s) && t= ext); =20 - =20 - escaped_string =3D g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1); + + escaped_string =3D g_malloc (strlen (text)*2+1+20); + strcpy(escaped_string, "(SayText \""); ptr1 =3D text; - ptr2 =3D escaped_string; + ptr2 =3D escaped_string + strlen(escaped_string); while (ptr1 && *ptr1) { - if (*ptr1 =3D=3D '\"') + if (!isspace(*ptr1)) + spaces_only =3D 0; + if (*ptr1 =3D=3D '\"' || *ptr1 =3D=3D '\\') *ptr2++ =3D '\\'; *ptr2++ =3D *ptr1++; } + *ptr2++ =3D '"'; + *ptr2++ =3D ')'; + *ptr2++ =3D '\r'; + *ptr2++ =3D '\n'; *ptr2 =3D 0; - + =20 /* Refresh if needded */=20 if (d->last_speaker !=3D s || speaker_needs_parameter_refresh (SPE= AKER(s))) { @@ -937,16 +946,15 @@ clb_list_free (d->crt_clbs); d->crt_clbs =3D speaker_get_clb_list (SPEAKER (s)); =20 + if (!spaces_only) + { #ifdef FESTIVAL_DEBUG_TEXT - fprintf (stderr, "\nSENT:\"%s\" from \"%s\"", escaped_string, text); + fprintf (stderr, "\nSENT:\"%s\" from \"%s\"", escaped_string, text); #endif - d->is_speaking =3D TRUE; - d->queue_length =3D 1; - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \""); - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "\")\r\n"); - - festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, "(SayText \"\")\r\n"); + d->is_speaking =3D TRUE; + d->queue_length =3D 1; + festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, escaped_string); + } =20 if (escaped_string) g_free (escaped_string); --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="recode.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- festivalsynthesisdriver.c 2006-06-28 17:43:04.252707768 +0200 +++ festivalsynthesisdriver.c.final 2006-06-28 17:41:15.475244456 +0200 @@ -941,6 +941,12 @@ festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, s->voice); speaker_refresh_parameters (SPEAKER(s)); d->last_speaker =3D s; + + if (strcmp(d->last_speaker->voice, "(voice_pc_diphone)\n") =3D=3D 0 + || strcmp(d->last_speaker->voice, "(voice_lp_diphone)\n") =3D=3D 0) + g_io_channel_set_encoding(d->channel_sock, "latin1", NULL); + else + g_io_channel_set_encoding(d->channel_sock, "UTF-8", NULL); } =20 clb_list_free (d->crt_clbs); --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="audsp-queue.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- audsp.cc 2006-06-28 17:46:18.384195296 +0200 +++ /home/enrico/src/festival-1.4.3.enrico/src/main/audsp.cc 2006-06-28 15:= 22:28.162537000 +0200 @@ -104,6 +104,15 @@ static int sp_terminate(void); static void tidy_up(void); =20 +static int no_more_input =3D FALSE; +static CQueue command_queue; +static int child_pid =3D 0; +static EST_String current_file; +static EST_Option play_wave_options; +static int maxqueue =3D 5; +static int pending_close =3D FALSE; +static int kids =3D 0; + void CQueue::push(Command *c) { // Put this item on tail @@ -143,10 +152,18 @@ void CQueue::display(void) const { CQueue_Item *t; - int i; + int i =3D 0; + int len =3D length(); + if (kids > 0) + { + ++len; + ++i; + } =20 - cerr << "Command_queue: " << length() << endl; - for (i=3D0,t=3Dhead; t !=3D 0; t=3Dt->next,i++) + cerr << "Command_queue: " << len << endl; + if (kids > 0) + cerr << " " << 0 << ": " << current_file << endl; + for (t=3Dhead; t !=3D 0; t=3Dt->next,i++) cerr << " " << i << ": " << t->c->file() << endl; } =20 @@ -176,15 +193,6 @@ tail =3D 0; } =20 -static int no_more_input =3D FALSE; -static CQueue command_queue; -static int child_pid =3D 0; -static EST_String current_file; -static EST_Option play_wave_options; -static int maxqueue =3D 5; -static int pending_close =3D FALSE; -static int kids =3D 0; - int main(int argc, char **argv) { =20 --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR-- --SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEoqfV9LSwzHl+v6sRAsloAJ9NSW6Jj7NDEq4ubcRTxEPZkgh6JQCfThZv SWQpep7MnFeaNCNf1HelzvY= =EbZs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --SkvwRMAIpAhPCcCJ-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Wed Jun 28 13:56:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE1C3B0357 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24930-07 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (nwkea-mail-2.sun.com [192.18.42.14]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C905F3B047B for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5SHtmkv026846 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1L007010B4TM@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:55:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-151.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.151]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1L00D8T0GZ0M@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:55:48 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:57:00 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> To: Enrico Zini , William.Walker@Sun.COM Message-id: <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:56:18 -0000 Hi Enrico: Thanks a bunch for those patches! I have a question about the utf-8/latin1 patch... ... > > recode.patch > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > instead of utf-8. Are you sure this is sufficient? Don't you need to call g_convert in order to convert the strings from the gnome-speech client to latin1 before passing them to the engine? > This fixes the Italian voices! Hooray!! That's great news. But it seems to me that there should be something more general and robust than just checking the voice string, in order to determine the correct encoding which the festival engine/voice expects. Note also that this problem seems to have been introduced on May 14 when Will explicitly changed the encoding on the iochannel from ISO-8859-1 to UTF-8. Will, can you explain why you did that? Bill > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Wed Jun 28 14:05:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A27A93B0365 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25636-01 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwkea-mail-5.sun.com (nwkea-mail-5.sun.com [192.18.42.27]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F7B3B012D for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by nwkea-mail-5.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5SI54u8020652 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1L00A010OB04@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:05:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-151.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.151]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1L00DJG0WF0M@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:05:03 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:06:16 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> To: Enrico Zini Message-id: <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:05:24 -0000 Hi: I found the bug whose patch seems to have introduced the problem Enrico found: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=321216 So it seems a more general/robust method is needed for determining the correct encoding for the output channel. For some voices it's apparently UTF-8, whereas for most european voices it's "latin 1". Presumably some languages may need latin2, etc. instead... Bill On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 17:01, Enrico Zini wrote: > Hello, > > finally, I'm attaching patches: > > audsp-queue.patch > Patch for festival's audsp to also report the currently playing file > on (audio_mode 'query) > > This seems to bring no particular improvement. I suspect that > gnopernicus doesn't need the is_speaking function too badly, after > all? > > unclutter.patch > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver to send a single, more compact > SayText command, and to avoid sending empty strings or string > containing only blanks. > > This is mainly a cosmetic patch. > > recode.patch > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > instead of utf-8. > > This fixes the Italian voices! Hooray!! > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 19:00:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75EF43B0061 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06116-07 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (ns.virtuo.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 156933B0167 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SMxdWk013642; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:59:41 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fvik3-000332-VW; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:42:39 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:42:39 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Bill Haneman Message-ID: <20060628224239.GB7241@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.672 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.766, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.672 X-Spam-Level: Cc: William.Walker@Sun.COM, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:00:07 -0000 --Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 06:57:00PM +0100, Bill Haneman wrote: > > recode.patch > > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > > instead of utf-8. > Are you sure this is sufficient? Don't you need to call g_convert in > order to convert the strings from the gnome-speech client to latin1 > before passing them to the engine? Yes, it is sufficient, and I tested the patched gnome-speech for quite a while enjoying for the first time a good trip at a spoken OpenOffice, and a nice read of lots of accented characters. I must admit I was surprised myself. Apparently the g_io infrastructure has been designed smartly so that UTF-8 applications can talk with the external world in its many incarnations. > That's great news. But it seems to me that there should be something > more general and robust than just checking the voice string, in order to > determine the correct encoding which the festival engine/voice expects. True. And if one day the italian festival voice will be changed to take utf-8, then gnome-speech will need changing as well. However, I have currently no idea how to query a festival voice for the preferred encoding. Maybe there's a super-simple lisp function for that, and we can get rid of the compiled-in per-voice encoding list. Or, otherwise, it can be not compiled in but read from a config file. > Note also that this problem seems to have been introduced on May 14 when > Will explicitly changed the encoding on the iochannel from ISO-8859-1 to > UTF-8. Will, can you explain why you did that? To me it makes a lot of sense to send out data in UTF-8 by default: I think that it's the italian voice that is broken in this regard. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEowXf9LSwzHl+v6sRAjtfAJ9P4w4g3a91DNRKR+jApNWh1dybCgCeJ0/P M9ToQPSWG7J2ti0P24CSZ+o= =CnPR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Pd0ReVV5GZGQvF3a-- From enrico@enricozini.org Wed Jun 28 19:00:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D7D3B01D5 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06351-03 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (ns.virtuo.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D25603B0077 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5SMxtWE013658; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:59:55 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fviq6-00033K-Vn; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:48:55 +0100 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:48:54 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Hynek Hanke Message-ID: <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="H8ygTp4AXg6deix2" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.662 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.756, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.662 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Bill Haneman , William.Walker@Sun.COM, zamazal@brailcom.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:00:16 -0000 --H8ygTp4AXg6deix2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, then > you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate functions > and let Festival care about the necessary conversions between encodings. > Encodings can be easily defined by the user in the configuration file, > or can be specified by the author of the voice, as is the case with > festival-czech. It has a dependency on the 'recode' utility. The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" and then communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it will be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because there seems to be a general consensus in moving away from gnome-speech. From what I understand it's currently fine to make fixes to gnome-speech, but a bit too late to do major redesigns. BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from gnome-speech, and since a long time, too. > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the encoding > used for different voices is easily configurable by the user. I think > there is no way how to determine the encoding of a given voice in > Festival automatically (which is of course broken :( ), so giving the > user the power to fix the problem without recompiling anything is very > important. Good point. So, either there's a way to query the preferred encoding to the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should all be read from some external config and not compiled in. There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian speech synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the encoding, or to do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't know enough of Festival to be able to do that. Maybe the festival developers can help here? Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --H8ygTp4AXg6deix2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEowdW9LSwzHl+v6sRAjJXAJ4u8WmGgkpv57JAnp7AqK+Y71qTIgCfTNws P1wIYaoBIws1FHYlsk/kUXs= =Bfg9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --H8ygTp4AXg6deix2-- From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Wed Jun 28 20:13:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17823B00EC for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09357-09 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com (brmea-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9763B3B007D for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5T0CZVT013271 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1L00L01HWDHP@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:12:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-57.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.57]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1L00BMFHWYD3@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:12:35 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 01:13:48 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> To: Enrico Zini Message-id: <1151540028.7061.22.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.58 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.58 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Hynek Hanke , William.Walker@Sun.COM, zamazal@brailcom.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 00:13:06 -0000 I think creating some configuration file, like for instance: gnome-speech/festival/voices.config makes sense. That way we can map voices to POSIX locales, which would be very useful, and we can also include info on the voice's string encoding format while we are at it. It's a bit hacky but probably the best solution for now. gnome-speech has some API for asking what locales a voice supports, but in order to implement it better such a config file is needed anyway. It might as well be a simple text format so that users can easily add voices. Bill On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 23:48, Enrico Zini wrote: > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > > > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, then > > you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate functions > > and let Festival care about the necessary conversions between encodings. > > Encodings can be easily defined by the user in the configuration file, > > or can be specified by the author of the voice, as is the case with > > festival-czech. It has a dependency on the 'recode' utility. > > The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" and then > communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it will > be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because there > seems to be a general consensus in moving away from gnome-speech. From > what I understand it's currently fine to make fixes to gnome-speech, but > a bit too late to do major redesigns. > > BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can > understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from gnome-speech, > and since a long time, too. > > > > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the encoding > > used for different voices is easily configurable by the user. I think > > there is no way how to determine the encoding of a given voice in > > Festival automatically (which is of course broken :( ), so giving the > > user the power to fix the problem without recompiling anything is very > > important. > > Good point. So, either there's a way to query the preferred encoding to > the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should all be > read from some external config and not compiled in. > > There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian speech > synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the encoding, or to > do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't know enough of Festival to be > able to do that. Maybe the festival developers can help here? > > > Ciao, > > Enrico > > -- > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From FDMA@once.es Thu Jun 29 02:57:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689E63B0218 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23945-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:57:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx.once.es (mx.once.es [217.149.152.66]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07933B00B2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 02:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from omail01.once.org (unknown [172.24.1.51]) by mx.once.es (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4601C37F8; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:57:48 +0200 (MEST) Received: by OMAIL01.once.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:57:06 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Dorado_Mart=EDnez=2C_Francisco_Javier=22?= To: Bill Haneman , Enrico Zini Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:57:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.581 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -2.581 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Hynek Hanke , William.Walker@Sun.COM, zamazal@brailcom.org, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:57:14 -0000 Hi all I would extend this solution to all speech-synthesis-drivers cause no TTS is UTF-8 capable. I have had this problem with dectalk and festival. And the other way, set to the locale We found that in Ubuntu for example, the locale is set to UTF-8 too. LANG='es_ES_UTF-8' Since some voices in Festival seems to work with UTF-8, I think a user setting to set the channel encoding would make sense. Regards Javier. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Bill Haneman [mailto:Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM] > Enviado el: jueves, 29 de junio de 2006 2:14 > Para: Enrico Zini > CC: Hynek Hanke; William.Walker@Sun.COM; > zamazal@brailcom.org; ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com; > gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > Asunto: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza > > > I think creating some configuration file, like for instance: > gnome-speech/festival/voices.config > makes sense. That way we can map voices to POSIX locales, > which would be very useful, and we can also include info on > the voice's string encoding format while we are at it. It's > a bit hacky but probably the best solution for now. > > gnome-speech has some API for asking what locales a voice > supports, but in order to implement it better such a config > file is needed anyway. It might as well be a simple text > format so that users can easily add voices. > > Bill > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 23:48, Enrico Zini wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > > > > > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, > > > then you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate > > > functions and let Festival care about the necessary conversions > > > between encodings. Encodings can be easily defined by the user in > > > the configuration file, or can be specified by the author of the > > > voice, as is the case with festival-czech. It has a dependency on > > > the 'recode' utility. > > > > The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival > -server" and then > > communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it > > will be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because > > there seems to be a general consensus in moving away from > > gnome-speech. From what I understand it's currently fine to make > > fixes to gnome-speech, but a bit too late to do major redesigns. > > > > BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can > > understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from > gnome-speech, > > and since a long time, too. > > > > > > > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the > > > encoding used for different voices is easily configurable by the > > > user. I think there is no way how to determine the encoding of a > > > given voice in Festival automatically (which is of course > broken :( > > > ), so giving the user the power to fix the problem without > > > recompiling anything is very important. > > > > Good point. So, either there's a way to query the > preferred encoding > > to the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should > > all be read from some external config and not compiled in. > > > > There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian > > speech synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the > > encoding, or to do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't > know enough > > of Festival to be able to do that. Maybe the festival > developers can > > help here? > > > > > > Ciao, > > > > Enrico > > > > -- > > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > From hanke@brailcom.org Wed Jun 28 15:24:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E84D93B00E1 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29777-01 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out3.iol.cz (smtp-out3.iol.cz [194.228.2.91]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F2CD3B008A for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from antivir3.iol.cz (avir3 [192.168.30.206]) by smtp-out3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB19E82A3; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (antivir3.iol.cz [127.0.0.1]) by antivir3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id E703E42000D; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp-out3.iol.cz (smtp-out-3.iplanet.iol.cz [192.168.30.28]) by antivir3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D8842000A; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.36] (77.93.broadband2.iol.cz [83.208.93.77]) by smtp-out3.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2C43BE49; Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:24:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Hynek Hanke To: Bill Haneman In-Reply-To: <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 21:22:41 +0200 Message-Id: <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at iol.cz X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 03:15:38 -0400 Cc: William.Walker@Sun.COM, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, zamazal@brailcom.org, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:24:50 -0000 Bill Haneman writes v St 28. 06. 2006 v 18:57 +0100: > > recode.patch > > Patch for gnome-speech festival driver. When one of the Italian > > voices is requested, switches the g_io output channel to latin1 > > instead of utf-8. > Are you sure this is sufficient? Don't you need to call g_convert in > order to convert the strings from the gnome-speech client to latin1 > before passing them to the engine? >That's great news. But it seems to me that there should be something >more general and robust than just checking the voice string, in order >to determine the correct encoding which the festival engine/voice > expects. > [...] > Note also that this problem seems to have been introduced on May 14 when > Will explicitly changed the encoding on the iochannel from ISO-8859-1 to > UTF-8. Will, can you explain why you did that? Hello, if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, then you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate functions and let Festival care about the necessary conversions between encodings. Encodings can be easily defined by the user in the configuration file, or can be specified by the author of the voice, as is the case with festival-czech. It has a dependency on the 'recode' utility. festival-freebsoft-utils also provide other nice functions (such as partial SSML support) and a coherent API. I'm CCing its developer Milan Zamazal who can answer future questions better than me. If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the encoding used for different voices is easily configurable by the user. I think there is no way how to determine the encoding of a given voice in Festival automatically (which is of course broken :( ), so giving the user the power to fix the problem without recompiling anything is very important. With regards, Hynek Hanke From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Thu Jun 29 05:15:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257113B0371 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32068-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10CCA3B040A for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 05:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5T9FYiR027118 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 03:15:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1M00J0171S0L@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:15:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-82.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.82]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1M00DA17226D@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:15:39 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:16:52 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: To: "\"Dorado =?UTF-8?Q?Mart=C3=ADnez=2C?= Francisco Javier\"" Message-id: <1151572612.7091.6.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT References: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.58 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.58 X-Spam-Level: Cc: William.Walker@Sun.COM, ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, Hynek Hanke , zamazal@brailcom.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 09:15:57 -0000 Hi Javier: Actually, festival _is_ UTF-8 capable, at least for some voices. The change to use UTF-8 on the festival stream was part of a patch to support an Indian dialect, but unfortunately it seems that the impact on european languages wasn't understood when it was committed. I made a change to the gnome-speech festival driver in April 2005 to use ISO-8859-1 as its encoding, which worked for all the festival european languages which we were aware of at the time. However it didn't work with the Indian language above, thus the patch. I still think ISO-8859-1 might be a better 'default' for the festival driver than UTF-8, since as far as I know none of the european voices expect UTF-8 input. It works for English of course, but perhaps only for ASCII characters! regards Bill On Thu, 2006-06-29 at 07:57, "Dorado Martínez, Francisco Javier" wrote: > Hi all > > I would extend this solution to all speech-synthesis-drivers cause no TTS is > UTF-8 capable. I have had this problem with dectalk and festival. And the > other way, set to the locale We found that in Ubuntu for example, the locale > is set to UTF-8 too. LANG='es_ES_UTF-8' > > Since some voices in Festival seems to work with UTF-8, I think a user > setting to set the channel encoding would make sense. > > Regards > > Javier. > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: Bill Haneman [mailto:Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM] > > Enviado el: jueves, 29 de junio de 2006 2:14 > > Para: Enrico Zini > > CC: Hynek Hanke; William.Walker@Sun.COM; > > zamazal@brailcom.org; ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com; > > gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > Asunto: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza > > > > > > I think creating some configuration file, like for instance: > > gnome-speech/festival/voices.config > > makes sense. That way we can map voices to POSIX locales, > > which would be very useful, and we can also include info on > > the voice's string encoding format while we are at it. It's > > a bit hacky but probably the best solution for now. > > > > gnome-speech has some API for asking what locales a voice > > supports, but in order to implement it better such a config > > file is needed anyway. It might as well be a simple text > > format so that users can easily add voices. > > > > Bill > > > > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 23:48, Enrico Zini wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 09:22:41PM +0200, Hynek Hanke wrote: > > > > > > > if you use festival-freebsoft-utils to communicate with Festival, > > > > then you can send all the input in UTF-8 through the appropriate > > > > functions and let Festival care about the necessary conversions > > > > between encodings. Encodings can be easily defined by the user in > > > > the configuration file, or can be specified by the author of the > > > > voice, as is the case with festival-czech. It has a dependency on > > > > the 'recode' utility. > > > > > > The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival > > -server" and then > > > communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how much effort it > > > will be to convert it to use festival-freebsoft-utils, also because > > > there seems to be a general consensus in moving away from > > > gnome-speech. From what I understand it's currently fine to make > > > fixes to gnome-speech, but a bit too late to do major redesigns. > > > > > > BTW, I now realise that by the time the Italian Festival voice can > > > understand UTF-8, we'll definitely have moved away from > > gnome-speech, > > > and since a long time, too. > > > > > > > > > > If you want to go some other way, I'd highly recommend that the > > > > encoding used for different voices is easily configurable by the > > > > user. I think there is no way how to determine the encoding of a > > > > given voice in Festival automatically (which is of course > > broken :( > > > > ), so giving the user the power to fix the problem without > > > > recompiling anything is very important. > > > > > > Good point. So, either there's a way to query the > > preferred encoding > > > to the festival voice, then we should use it. Otherwise, it should > > > all be read from some external config and not compiled in. > > > > > > There's also a way halfway through, that is adding to the Italian > > > speech synthesis LISP commands to let gnome-speech know of the > > > encoding, or to do the transcoding. I unfortunately don't > > know enough > > > of Festival to be able to do that. Maybe the festival > > developers can > > > help here? > > > > > > > > > Ciao, > > > > > > Enrico > > > > > > -- > > > GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > > > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 06:40:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D29A3B020C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04497-06 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09BAC3B00FC for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvtwI-0004cx-Hl for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:40:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:40:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:40:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:39:02 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 48 Message-ID: <87zmfwkzzt.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:dpr5gWF7m2CQe57deFG/X7ghQoI= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.441 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.340, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.441 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:40:11 -0000 >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: EZ> The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" EZ> and then communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how EZ> much effort it will be to convert it to use EZ> festival-freebsoft-utils, Just load it on Festival startup (e.g. in /etc/festival.scm). EZ> And if one day the italian festival voice will be changed to EZ> take utf-8, Italian Festival voice needn't be changed, Festival should be changed itself to support UTF-8. EZ> However, I have currently no idea how to query a festival voice EZ> for the preferred encoding. The festival-freebsoft-utils call is (current-voice-coding) e.g.: festival> (voice_kal_diphone) kal_diphone festival> (current-voice-coding) ISO-8859-1 festival> (voice_czech_ph) czech_ph festival> (current-voice-coding) ISO-8859-2 EZ> To me it makes a lot of sense to send out data in UTF-8 by EZ> default: Yes. EZ> I think that it's the italian voice that is broken in this EZ> regard. No, actually Festival is broken as it doesn't support UTF-8 input, someone should fix it (but I'm afraid it's a non-trivial task). Regards, Milan Zamazal From Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM Thu Jun 29 06:46:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6D303B0138 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04924-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from brmea-mail-1.sun.com (brmea-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.98.31]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1490C3B0218 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phys-gadget-1 ([129.156.85.171]) by brmea-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k5TAkeCp014913 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 04:46:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from conversion-daemon.gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) id <0J1M00I01B3LIM@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com> (original mail from Bill.Haneman@Sun.COM) for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:46:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from [192.168.1.120] (vpn-129-150-116-82.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.82]) by gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.24 (built Dec 19 2003)) with ESMTP id <0J1M00LVLB9UYQ@gadget-mail1.uk.sun.com>; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:46:42 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:47:55 +0100 From: Bill Haneman In-reply-to: <87zmfwkzzt.fsf@zamazal.org> To: Milan Zamazal Message-id: <1151578075.7091.9.camel@linux.site> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6.338 Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517420.10868.19.camel@linux.site> <1151522561.3334.66.camel@chopin> <20060628224854.GC7241@viaza> <87zmfwkzzt.fsf@zamazal.org> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.579 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.579 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:46:49 -0000 Milan: Thanks for pointing out this festival API (for finding the preferred encoding). I didn't know it existed. It seems to me that the gnome-speech driver should just make the equivalent API call and set the io channel to the festival driver accordingly. That would prevent us from having to make up some kind of config file. regards Bill On Thu, 2006-06-29 at 11:39, Milan Zamazal wrote: > >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: > > EZ> The gnome-speech festival driver just runs "festival -server" > EZ> and then communicates with it on port 1314. I don't know how > EZ> much effort it will be to convert it to use > EZ> festival-freebsoft-utils, > > Just load it on Festival startup (e.g. in /etc/festival.scm). > > EZ> And if one day the italian festival voice will be changed to > EZ> take utf-8, > > Italian Festival voice needn't be changed, Festival should be changed > itself to support UTF-8. > > EZ> However, I have currently no idea how to query a festival voice > EZ> for the preferred encoding. > > The festival-freebsoft-utils call is > > (current-voice-coding) > > e.g.: > > festival> (voice_kal_diphone) > kal_diphone > festival> (current-voice-coding) > ISO-8859-1 > festival> (voice_czech_ph) > czech_ph > festival> (current-voice-coding) > ISO-8859-2 > > EZ> To me it makes a lot of sense to send out data in UTF-8 by > EZ> default: > > Yes. > > EZ> I think that it's the italian voice that is broken in this > EZ> regard. > > No, actually Festival is broken as it doesn't support UTF-8 input, > someone should fix it (but I'm afraid it's a non-trivial task). > > Regards, > > Milan Zamazal > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 06:55:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27B713B02DE for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05272-04 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7DAB3B01B2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 06:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvuAo-0000a3-FI for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:53:55 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 51 Message-ID: <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:xyq5D6be7wiyH0v/WllG97UCzOs= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.321 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.220, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.321 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:55:05 -0000 >>>>> "BH" == Bill Haneman writes: BH> So it seems a more general/robust method is needed for BH> determining the correct encoding for the output channel. For BH> some voices it's apparently UTF-8, whereas for most european BH> voices it's "latin 1". Presumably some languages may need BH> latin2, etc. instead... Yes. IMO a reasonable approach is to use the coding declared by the voice and to use ISO-8859-1 if the voice doesn't declare its coding. This is what festival-freebsoft-utils does. Preferably all voices should declare their coding. There's no standard way to do that in Festival; festival-freebsoft-utils introduces just another item in the voice declaration called `coding' for that purpose. It's trivial to add it and it's IMHO better than introducing new configuration options to all the Festival frontends. The festival-freebsoft-utils current-voice-coding function is trivial: (define (current-voice-coding) (or (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice)))) 'ISO-8859-1)) If all you need from festival-freebsoft-utils is this function then there's no need to require the whole festival-freebsoft-utils package to be able to figure out the voice coding. BH> Actually, festival _is_ UTF-8 capable, at least for some voices. It is not. The UTF-8 voices handle the UTF-8 input as a sequence of 8-bit characters. Of course this is far from being comfortable and one can't use many standard Festival functions on such an input. So UTF-8 is used in Festival only for languages which can't represent their character set in an 8-bit coding. Of course, the best way would be to make Festival work with Unicode characters. But I think this is a non-trivial task and apparently nobody works on it. So I'd suggest to use the `coding' voice property workaround described above for now. BH> I still think ISO-8859-1 might be a better 'default' for the BH> festival driver than UTF-8, since as far as I know none of the BH> european voices expect UTF-8 input. Yes. Regards, Milan Zamazal From enrico@enricozini.org Thu Jun 29 10:22:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7911C3B0578 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18271-03 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (maya.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B93D23B052C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5TEM3eY028650; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:22:03 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvxOy-00087V-OF; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:21:52 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:21:52 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Milan Zamazal Message-ID: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wac7ysb48OaltWcw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.57 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.664, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.57 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 14:22:15 -0000 --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 12:53:55PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote: > Preferably all voices should declare their coding. There's no standard > way to do that in Festival; festival-freebsoft-utils introduces just > another item in the voice declaration called `coding' for that purpose. > It's trivial to add it and it's IMHO better than introducing new > configuration options to all the Festival frontends. > The festival-freebsoft-utils current-voice-coding function is trivial: > (define (current-voice-coding) > (or (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice)))) > 'ISO-8859-1)) > If all you need from festival-freebsoft-utils is this function then > there's no need to require the whole festival-freebsoft-utils package to > be able to figure out the voice coding. I tried, but: festival> (voice_lp_diphone) lp_diphone festival> (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice))) nil So I guess the Italian voice doesn't define that. If you give me a piece of lisp code that adds that definition, I can add it to the Debian and Ubuntu package, and try to push it upstream. With regards to gnome-speech, honoring the encoding seems quite easy. In the function festival_response_sock there is this query: (list 'VOICEDESC:=20 (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) Where %s gets substituted to be the voice name. Besides that maybe is a good idea to refer to parameters by name using assoc rather than by position using nth, it sounds trivial to add another parameter to that and handle it later on. So, if I can get the right help with the LISP code, I can take care of this. Meet me on irc.freenode.net or irc.oftc.net as 'enrico' if you'd like to have a quick session about it. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo+IA9LSwzHl+v6sRAlGPAJ96Nzy2xOcsmeoNJwHixevRz0uNJQCfdXpd fOEYLprvfHa5JEDUAemIt5M= =C4nl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wac7ysb48OaltWcw-- From cerha@brailcom.org Thu Jun 29 11:01:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73EE83B03AE for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21302-07 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gate.brailcom.cz (158-84-244-84.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz [84.244.84.158]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1B6203B0461 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17561 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2006 16:39:40 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.15.2?) (192.168.15.2) by ns.brailcom.xx with SMTP; 29 Jun 2006 16:39:40 +0200 Message-ID: <44A3EB22.9080304@brailcom.org> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:00:50 +0200 From: Tomas Cerha Organization: Brailcom, o.p.s. User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, orca-list@gnome.org, speechd@lists.freebsoft.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.085 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-1.221, BAYES_50=0.001, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -1.085 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [g-a-devel] Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:01:26 -0000 Hello, I would like to announce availability of an EXPERIMENTAL Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca. Please, see http://www.freebsoft.org/~cerha/orca/speech-dispatcher-backend.html for more information. Any feedback is welcome, however, please note that I will not be on-line until July 10. Kindest regards, Tomas -- Brailcom, o.p.s. http://www.brailcom.org Free(b)soft project http://www.freebsoft.org Eurochance project http://eurochance.brailcom.org From enrico@enricozini.org Thu Jun 29 11:03:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C423B042C for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21507-07 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maya.ngi.it (ns2.ngi.it [88.149.128.3]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE533B03F8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by maya.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5TF3EOG000406; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:03:15 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fvy2b-0000hI-1R; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:02:49 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:02:48 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Milan Zamazal Message-ID: <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.528 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.622, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.528 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:03:24 -0000 --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 03:21:52PM +0100, Enrico Zini wrote: > So I guess the Italian voice doesn't define that. If you give me a > piece of lisp code that adds that definition, I can add it to the Debian > and Ubuntu package, and try to push it upstream. Found! Happyness: festival> (voice_lp_diphone) lp_diphone festival> (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description current-voice))) (coding "ISO-8859-1") Is it ok for it to be defined straight into /usr/share/festival/voices/italian/pc_diphone/festvox/pc_diphone.scm, added at the end like this? (proclaim_voice 'pc_diphone '((language italian) (gender male) (dialect none) (description "This voice provides a Italian male voice using a residual excited LPC diphone synthesis method. The lexicon is provived by a set of letter to sound rules producing pronunciation accents and syllabification. The durations, intonation and prosodic phrasing are minimal but are acceptable for simple examples.") (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) Because if like this is ok, I can upload the new package in Debian and prod the Ubuntu people to pick it up. Not that it would make a big difference since ISO-8859-1 would be a default, but it would set an example for others to follow. BTW, is "coding" a name that comes from some standard or a name that we're inventing right now? Because if we're inventing it right now, then I think I'd prefer "encoding". > (list 'VOICEDESC:=20 > (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) > (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) And I think I can fix this as well: (list 'VOICEDESC: (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) (cadr (assoc 'language (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) (cadr (assoc 'dialect (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) (cadr (assoc 'gender (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) (or (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) "ISO-8859-1")) Now, to properly read and store this data, I have to add an 'encoding' field to GNOME::Speech::VoiceInfo. That would be changing the IDL in gnome-speech. How free am I to do that? What are the side effects of doing it? Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo+uY9LSwzHl+v6sRAhkAAKCQnE/euumT8jec5wt1aZBZFc+uuwCeOHf4 EXCnT/8KVVYD0+fjTfvU59Y= =oiAG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm-- From themuso@themuso.com Thu Jun 29 11:15:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA4E63B03F8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22467-01 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vscan01.westnet.com.au (vscan01.westnet.com.au [203.10.1.131]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E903B0505 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E678762855 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:18 +0800 (WST) Received: from vscan01.westnet.com.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (vscan01.westnet.com.au [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29279-03 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:18 +0800 (WST) Received: from marlon.yelavich.home (dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au [202.173.132.131]) by vscan01.westnet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id B99C57628A1 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 23:15:17 +0800 (WST) Received: (nullmailer pid 26422 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:15:03 -0000 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 01:15:03 +1000 From: Luke Yelavich To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Message-ID: <20060629151503.GA25557@marlon.yelavich.home> References: <44A3EB22.9080304@brailcom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <44A3EB22.9080304@brailcom.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.422 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.042, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.422 X-Spam-Level: Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Speech Dispatcher backend for Orca X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:15:09 -0000 --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 30, 2006 at 01:00:50AM EST, Tomas Cerha wrote: > Hello, >=20 > I would like to announce availability of an EXPERIMENTAL Speech > Dispatcher backend for Orca. Please, see > http://www.freebsoft.org/~cerha/orca/speech-dispatcher-backend.html for > more information. Any feedback is welcome, however, please note that I > will not be on-line until July 10. Thanks heaps for this. Since Edgy is in development, this will be going=20 straight into the orca package to be included in Edgy. Thanks again. --=20 Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE=20 (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com ICQ: 18444344 Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo+53jVefwtBjIM4RAmKKAKDCPHwcbh6r2NazhSnMTcM6AFuuGwCg0x6d kj1qLk5XrsmbxaGJS9fSSSU= =rYjk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb-- From arieltenor@gmail.com Thu Jun 29 11:08:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74D9B3B058F for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:08:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21987-02 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com (wx-out-0102.google.com [66.249.82.198]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BBE03B0593 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:07:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s15so96609wxc for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.22.6 with SMTP id 6mr3210086wxv; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.67.6 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:07:51 -0500 From: "Ariel Rios" To: "Enrico Zini" In-Reply-To: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.362 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE=0.2, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.362 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:19:01 -0400 Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, Milan Zamazal Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:08:06 -0000 > With regards to gnome-speech, honoring the encoding seems quite easy. > In the function festival_response_sock there is this query: > > (list 'VOICEDESC: > (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) > (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) > (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) > > Where %s gets substituted to be the voice name. Besides that maybe is a > good idea to refer to parameters by name using assoc rather than by > position using nth, it sounds trivial to add another parameter to that > and handle it later on. I think so. Doing all those nth looks ugly and if you are going to be doing this query constantly it makes sense to the the assoc. > So, if I can get the right help with the LISP code, I can take care of > this. Meet me on irc.freenode.net or irc.oftc.net as 'enrico' if you'd > like to have a quick session about it. I can help with the scheme code. Let me look for you in a minute. ariel From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 11:55:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFD23B00D2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24656-03 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E843B0144 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Fvyr8-0006fP-GC for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:55:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:55:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:53:49 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 65 Message-ID: <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:+80M3HQGRKAuLAbwU4dDIvRgQL0= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.264 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.163, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.264 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:55:09 -0000 >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: EZ> Is it ok for it to be defined straight into EZ> /usr/share/festival/voices/italian/pc_diphone/festvox/pc_diphone.scm, EZ> added at the end like this? EZ> (proclaim_voice EZ> 'pc_diphone EZ> '((language italian) EZ> (gender male) EZ> (dialect none) EZ> (description EZ> "This voice provides a Italian male voice using a EZ> residual excited LPC diphone synthesis method. The lexicon EZ> is provived by a set of letter to sound rules producing pronunciation EZ> accents and syllabification. The durations, intonation and EZ> prosodic phrasing are minimal but are acceptable for simple EZ> examples.") EZ> (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) Yes, except that it's probably better to specify the coding without double quotes: (coding ISO-8859-1) EZ> Because if like this is ok, I can upload the new package in EZ> Debian and prod the Ubuntu people to pick it up. Not that it EZ> would make a big difference since ISO-8859-1 would be a default, EZ> but it would set an example for others to follow. Good idea, thanks! EZ> BTW, is "coding" a name that comes from some standard or a name that EZ> we're inventing right now? I introduced this name in festival-freebsoft-utils. AFAIK it's not used anywhere else and the only voice that declares it is our Czech voice. EZ> Because if we're inventing it right now, then I think I'd prefer EZ> "encoding". Well, I'm not sure which of the two English terms better fits the context. EZ> (list 'VOICEDESC: EZ> (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) EZ> (nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s))))) EZ> And I think I can fix this as well: EZ> (list 'VOICEDESC: EZ> (nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) EZ> (cadr (assoc 'language (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (cadr (assoc 'dialect (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (cadr (assoc 'gender (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> (or EZ> (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) EZ> "ISO-8859-1")) Yes, this is the right thing to do. Regards, Milan Zamazal From enrico@enricozini.org Thu Jun 29 12:28:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D09633B034A for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26784-09 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ngi.it (agnus.ngi.it [88.149.128.9]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744AF3B01A9 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (81-174-12-206.f5.ngi.it [81.174.12.206]) by agnus.ngi.it (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k5TGRvUj006958; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:27:57 +0200 Received: from enrico by localhost.localdomain with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FvzMn-0003yu-E9; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:27:45 +0100 Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:27:45 +0100 From: Enrico Zini To: Milan Zamazal Message-ID: <20060629162745.GB480@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="S1BNGpv0yoYahz37" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.492 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.586, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.558] X-Spam-Score: -1.492 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza (more patch bonanza) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:28:04 -0000 --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/" Content-Disposition: inline --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 05:53:49PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote: > EZ> (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) > Yes, except that it's probably better to specify the coding without > double quotes: (coding ISO-8859-1) Done. I'm not proficient with LISP: what is the difference? > EZ> Because if we're inventing it right now, then I think I'd prefer > EZ> "encoding". > Well, I'm not sure which of the two English terms better fits the > context. 'coding' is ok with me, if it's already used somewhere. > Yes, this is the right thing to do. Good! People, please review the attached patch for gnome-speech to take advantage of the 'coding' attribute. Ciao, Enrico --=20 GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="recode1.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- festivalsynthesisdriver.c 2006-05-14 15:49:21.000000000 +0100 +++ festivalsynthesisdriver.c.buono 2006-06-29 17:23:25.000000000 +0100 @@ -45,6 +45,8 @@ #undef FESTIVAL_DEBUG_SEND #undef FESTIVAL_DEBUG_TEXT =20 +#define DEFAULT_ENCODING "ISO-8859-1" + static gint text_id =3D 0; static GObjectClass *parent_class; static gboolean festival_server_exists =3D FALSE; @@ -52,6 +54,7 @@ static GSList *driver_list =3D NULL; static GSList *markers_list =3D NULL; static GSList *voices_list =3D NULL; +static GSList *encodings_list =3D NULL; =20 typedef struct { @@ -98,6 +101,37 @@ static void festival_process_text_out (FestivalTextOut *text_out); static void festival_free_list (FestivalSynthesisDriver *d); =20 +static void encoding_set(GNOME_Speech_VoiceInfo* voice, gchar* encoding) +{ + /* First, try to see if we have it already */ + GSList* cur =3D encodings_list; + int len =3D strlen(voice->name); + for ( ; cur !=3D NULL; cur =3D cur->next) + if (strncmp((gchar*)cur->data, voice->name, len) =3D=3D 0) + { + /* If we have it, replace it */ + g_free(cur->data); + cur->data =3D g_strdup_printf("%s:%s", voice->name, encoding); + return; + } + /* Otherwise, insert it */ + encodings_list =3D g_slist_prepend (encodings_list, g_strdup_printf("%s:%= s", voice->name, encoding)); +} + +static gchar* encoding_get(FestivalSpeaker* speaker) +{ + /* Look for the item in the list */ + GSList* cur =3D encodings_list; + int len =3D strlen(speaker->voice); + /* Speaker should be at least "(voice_?)\n" */ + if (len < 10) + return DEFAULT_ENCODING; + for ( ; cur !=3D NULL; cur =3D cur->next) + if (strncmp((gchar*)cur->data, speaker->voice + 7, len - 9) =3D=3D 0) + return (gchar*)cur->data + len - 9 + 1; + /* If not found, default to latin1 */ + return DEFAULT_ENCODING; +} =20 static FestivalTextMarker * festival_text_marker_new () @@ -329,12 +363,19 @@ p =3D strstr (voices[i], ")\n"); if (p !=3D NULL) *p =3D 0;=20 - query_voice_des =3D g_strdup_printf ("(list 'VOICEDESC: " - "(nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) " - "(nth 1 (nth 0 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) " - "(nth 1 (nth 2 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))) " - "(nth 1 (nth 1 (nth 1 (voice.description '%s)))))\n", - voices[i], voices[i], voices[i], voices[i]); + /* Adds an extra nil to help tokenization later */ + query_voice_des =3D g_strdup_printf ( + "(list 'VOICEDESC: " + "(nth 0 (voice.description '%s)) " + "(cadr (assoc 'language (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + "(cadr (assoc 'dialect (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + "(cadr (assoc 'gender (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + "(or " + " (cadr (assoc 'coding (cadr (voice.description '%s)))) " + " \"" DEFAULT_ENCODING "\") " + "nil)\n", + voices[i], voices[i], voices[i], voices[i], voices[i]); + festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (driver, query_voice_des); voices_waiting_for_description++; g_free (query_voice_des); @@ -349,7 +390,8 @@ voice[1] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[1], "nil") &&=20 voice[2] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[2], "nil") &&=20 voice[3] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[3], "nil") &&=20 - voice[4] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[4], "nil")) + voice[4] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[4], "nil") && + voice[5] !=3D NULL && strcmp (voice[5], "nil")) { GNOME_Speech_VoiceInfo *new_info; new_info =3D GNOME_Speech_VoiceInfo__alloc (); @@ -360,6 +402,7 @@ else new_info->gender =3D GNOME_Speech_gender_male; voices_list =3D g_slist_append (voices_list, new_info); + encoding_set(new_info, voice[5]); } voices_waiting_for_description--; if (voices_waiting_for_description =3D=3D 0)=20 @@ -932,6 +975,7 @@ festival_synthesis_driver_say_raw (d, s->voice); speaker_refresh_parameters (SPEAKER(s)); d->last_speaker =3D s; + g_io_channel_set_encoding(d->channel_sock, encoding_get(d->last_speak= er), NULL); } =20 clb_list_free (d->crt_clbs); --61jdw2sOBCFtR2d/-- --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEo/+B9LSwzHl+v6sRAnyPAJ9744vEU1S2Oq/qQevRaK1+GbjZJACfWr4/ dyTACe4V/punjtN0eDQftQI= =i9pI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --S1BNGpv0yoYahz37-- From gnome-Gnome-accessibility-devel@m.gmane.org Thu Jun 29 12:55:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122743B0400 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28305-10 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B473B00D5 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1FvznC-0000WD-4X for Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:55:02 +0200 Received: from 217.66.176.51 ([217.66.176.51]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:55:02 +0200 Received: from pdm by 217.66.176.51 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org From: Milan Zamazal Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:50:32 +0200 Organization: BRAILCOM, o.p.s. Lines: 22 Message-ID: <878xnflxd3.fsf@zamazal.org> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> <20060629150248.GA480@viaza> <87ejx8klf6.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629162745.GB480@viaza> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.66.176.51 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:H6u74mUGFPwBjR+c1CCtX3cUt/g= Sender: news X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.23 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.129, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] X-Spam-Score: -1.23 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza (more patch bonanza) X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:55:24 -0000 >>>>> "EZ" == Enrico Zini writes: EZ> On Thu, Jun 29, 2006 at 05:53:49PM +0200, Milan Zamazal wrote: EZ> (coding "ISO-8859-1"))) >> Yes, except that it's probably better to specify the coding >> without double quotes: (coding ISO-8859-1) EZ> Done. I'm not proficient with LISP: what is the difference? >From the language view, double quoted elements are strings, while those without them are symbols. There is not much difference between strings and symbols in Festival, but it may be good to be consistent with the other voice properties (which are symbols). >From the practical view, symbols are printed without double quotes, i.e. it is slightly easier to read the coding in programs communicating with Festival. Regards, Milan Zamazal From hanke@brailcom.org Thu Jun 29 15:35:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 290343B00D2 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05215-04 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out4.iol.cz (smtp-out4.iol.cz [194.228.2.92]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7DB3B00E8 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from antivir4.iol.cz (avir4 [192.168.30.209]) by smtp-out4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 832071F8FF5; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (antivir4.iol.cz [127.0.0.1]) by antivir4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 763C6240025; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp-out4.iol.cz (smtp-out-4.iplanet.iol.cz [192.168.30.31]) by antivir4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C0C240024; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.36] (77.93.broadband2.iol.cz [83.208.93.77]) by smtp-out4.iol.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D3022AFA2; Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:35:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Hynek Hanke To: Enrico Zini In-Reply-To: <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> References: <20060628160125.GA7321@viaza> <1151517976.10868.22.camel@linux.site> <87veqkkzb0.fsf@zamazal.org> <20060629142152.GA30533@viaza> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:34:18 +0200 Message-Id: <1151609659.3329.5.camel@chopin> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.6.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at iol.cz X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=0.014, BAYES_00=-2.599, FORGED_RCVD_HELO=0.135] X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 03:09:27 -0400 Cc: ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com, Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org, Milan Zamazal Subject: Re: [g-a-devel] Happy patch bonanza X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:35:54 -0000 > So I guess the Italian voice doesn't define that. If you give me a > piece of lisp code that adds that definition, I can add it to the Debian > and Ubuntu package, and try to push it upstream. Would it make sense to also include definitions for the other voices in the list that Gary Cramblitt posted here? With regards, Hynek From mat@moblog.co.uk Fri Jun 30 11:36:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Delivered-To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259073B0243 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from menubar.gnome.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (menubar.gnome.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29142-01 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:36:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lon-mail-1.gradwell.net (lon-mail-1.gradwell.net [193.111.201.125]) by menubar.gnome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1E563B0108 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 83-216-133-187.martin572.adsl.metronet.co.uk ([83.216.133.187] helo=[192.168.0.6] country=GB ident=postmaster#pop3^ninj4*org) by lon-mail-1.gradwell.net with esmtpa (Gradwell gwh-smtpd 1.225) id 44a544d5.1b0.694 for gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org; Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:35:49 +0100 (envelope-sender ) Message-ID: <44A544D4.6090805@moblog.co.uk> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:35:48 +0100 From: mat User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060615) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060405090204000108040309" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at gnome.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=2 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 03:04:03 -0400 Subject: [g-a-devel] mouse wheel scrolling speed X-BeenThere: gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Technical discussions and patches for at-spi, gail, and ATs" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 15:36:04 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060405090204000108040309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Apologies if this is posted to the wrong list, or if it's already been covered/is pending/is irrelevant (the list archive search page wasn't working when I checked). Mouse wheel scroll speed currently varies (in my distro, Ubuntu Dapper AMD64) between one and three lines, depending on the application. There doesn't seem to be any way to change it, although a very old (2003) forum post on gnomesupport.org suggests it's hard-coded into gtk. For me, this is an accessibility issue - using the mouse wheel is the single most painful aspect of my rsi-stricken computing experience, and being able to set it to scroll a page per click would significantly improve day-to-day computer use. Naturally, as this affects me, I think it's important. In the grand scheme of Gnome Accessibilty (something that has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years), I'm not sure where it would rank. yours, with stiff fingers, -mat brown [ http://moblog.co.uk/blog/mat ] --------------060405090204000108040309 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi,

Apologies if this is posted to the wrong list, or if it's already been covered/is pending/is irrelevant (the list archive search page wasn't working when I checked).

Mouse wheel scroll speed currently varies (in my distro, Ubuntu Dapper AMD64) between one and three lines, depending on the application.  There doesn't seem to be any way to change it, although a very old (2003) forum post on gnomesupport.org suggests it's hard-coded into gtk.

For me, this is an accessibility issue - using the mouse wheel is the single most painful aspect of my rsi-stricken computing experience, and being able to set it to scroll a page per click would significantly improve day-to-day computer use.  Naturally, as this affects me, I think it's important.  In the grand scheme of Gnome Accessibilty (something that has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years), I'm not sure where it would rank.

yours, with stiff fingers,



-mat brown


[ http://moblog.co.uk/blog/mat ]
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