Re: [orca-list] Debian accessibility clarification question, was Gnome on Debian - Latest Version

["al Sten-Clanton" <Albert E Sten_Clanton verizon net>]

Am I right that Debian Lenny does or will include Speakup?  I realize that a
"yes" answer doesn't address the issures related to Orca, but it would
suggest that the Debian folks are not as uncaring about accessibility in
general as some of the messages on this topic seem to suggest.  (Note:  I'm
not a Debian user, so I don't ask this out of bias for that distro, although
I have thought of switching to it.)

Al 

-----Original Message-----
From: orca-list-bounces gnome org [mailto:orca-list-bounces gnome org] On
Behalf Of Krishnakant
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 1:04 PM
To: Willie Walker
Cc: Orca E-mail List
Subject: Re: [orca-list] Gnome on Debian - Latest Version

HI,
I would love to switch over to debian as well but it is more of an attitude
and motivation problem than any thing else for not having proper
accessibility infrastructure in Debian.

Sun is very serious about this and so is ubuntu to a great extent.
So I respect sun for this and canonical to an extent.
And by the way Wil, we still forgot to mention the accessible installer in
this message.
Even if debian takes proper steps as far as gnome is concerned, I don't
think we are going to have an installer like open solaris or ubuntu.
happy hacking.
Krishnakant.

On Thu, 2009-02-05 at 11:09 -0500, Willie Walker wrote:
> Hi Steve:
> 
> I hear your frustration.  :-(
> 
> For your voice to be heard by the Debian folks who can make a 
> difference, however, you might need to find a Debian-specific list.
> Right now, I suspect they are not monitoring this discussion and are 
> not aware of it.
> 
> Will
> 
> PS - If it helps, OpenSolaris is currently doing a pretty decent job 
> with GNOME and accessibility.
> 
> Steve Holmes wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: RIPEMD160
> > 
> > Well, if they intend to sit and watch gnome slide by then I might 
> > have to reconsider continued use of Debian as a distro.  It appears 
> > they are beginning to go down the same path Dropline-gnome does; 
> > release something about once a year and lag far behind the rest of the
time.
> > Again, I express my disappointment in this strategy.  Gee, maybe I 
> > better go back to Slackware and find another gnome mini distro.  For 
> > whatever reason, Ubuntu doesn't turn me on.  I could explore Fedorah 
> > but I don't know about spending the time to go out and learn another 
> > distro all over again.
> > 
> > Sorry for the whining about all this but lagging behind on 
> > fundimental components like gnome can severely hurt accessibility 
> > and the on-going development here.  I haven't seen a comprehensive 
> > guide to building gnome from scratch thus far and from what I've 
> > seen of the gnome architexture, it would appear to be a very daunting
task indeed.
> > 
> > On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 08:59:30AM -0400, E.J. Zufelt wrote:
> >> Good morning Steve,
> >>
> >> I was thinking the same thing about gnome 2.24 being in unstable or 
> >> experimental.  As I have discovered the unstable packages and 
> >> experimental packages are packages that debian intends to migrate 
> >> to stable.  So, if the debian gnome team isn't interested in 
> >> working with gnome 2.24 it won't appear even in experimental, 
> >> because they do not intend to move it to stable.
> >>
> >> It will be interesting to see what happens with gnome in debian, 
> >> but it looks like it will be quite a while before it is included.
> >>
> >> HTH,
> >> Everett
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5-Feb-09, at 8:49 AM, Steve Holmes wrote:
> >>
> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >>> Hash: RIPEMD160
> >>>
> >>> That's really too bad too.  I gave up on dropline gnome last year 
> >>> because they lagged so far behind.  I've been a slackware for many 
> >>> years and generally loved it for its basic simplicity and ease at 
> >>> getting under the hood so to speak.  So I went and tried Debian.  
> >>> I like its package management and dependency tracking and all but 
> >>> this gnome thing really disappointments me.  You would think that 
> >>> going unstable would get you the supposed latest versions but alas 
> >>> they are sitting on what is now an older version of gnome.  I 
> >>> understand a lot of our accessibility enhancements depend on 
> >>> having the latest gnome version and Debian package managers who 
> >>> don't like 2.24 are holding Deb users back in this regard.  I'm 
> >>> not in a mood to do yet another re-install of linux to switch to 
> >>> Solarus or Ubuntu.  I would just hope they get a move on with Debian
and get gnome up to date.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 07:56:30AM -0400, E.J. Zufelt wrote:
> >>>> Good morning Steve,
> >>>>
> >>>> I used to have an article written by the debian gnome package 
> >>>> manager eplaining why they haven't included 2.24 in their 
> >>>> repositories, but at the moment I can't find it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Suffice it to say that although some 2.24 packages are in 
> >>>> experimental, gnome-core is not and may not be for some time.  It 
> >>>> has something to do with the debian-gnome folks not liking some 
> >>>> of the things that gnome
> >>>> 2.24
> >>>> does with session management.  You could try building gnome 2.24 
> >>>> yourself, but that seems like an aweful lot of work that is 
> >>>> certainly going to be filled with a great deal of frustration.
> >>>>
> >>>> HTH,
> >>>> Everett
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 5-Feb-09, at 7:39 AM, Steve Holmes wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >>>>> Hash: RIPEMD160
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm doing that and have Orca-2.24.1, I believe, but the rest of 
> >>>>> gnome is still at 2.22.whatever.  That's the part I want to 
> >>>>> improve.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 03:48:43AM -0400, E.J. Zufelt wrote:
> >>>>>> Good evening Steve,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I bbelieve that I was using Cid and pulled down Orca from 
> >>>>>> experimental with no problems.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> HTH,
> >>>>>> Everett
> >>>>>> On 5-Feb-09, at 3:21 AM, Steve Holmes wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >>>>>>> Hash: RIPEMD160
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Do any Debian users know if/when any levels of Debian will go 
> >>>>>>> to gnome later than 2.22.X? I just looked in the Packages 
> >>>>>>> listing for unstable and it still shows 2.22.5 or something.  
> >>>>>>> It seems like Deb is slipping behind the other distros here.  
> >>>>>>> Many other distros have been using
> >>>>>>> 2.24 for months now.  Just wondering.  I understand going to
> >>>>>>> 2.24 of
> >>>>>>> gnome may clear up some of the accessibility issues I'm 
> >>>>>>> having.  I suppose I could try and pull gnome from 
> >>>>>>> experimental? Any ideas on when Lenny will becom stable? I 
> >>>>>>> thought I heard that when that does that the other stuff can 
> >>>>>>> start moving again.
> >>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >>>>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> iEYEAREDAAYFAkmKk5IACgkQWSjv55S0LfEbpACg0vOy1tUPAShzqD4WNQrJmP+w
> >>>>>>> C3QAniOTORIC/oiPEgah3Mfa2wvO/PnV =048X -----END PGP 
> >>>>>>> SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Orca-list mailing list
> >>>>>>> Orca-list gnome org
> >>>>>>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> >>>>>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca
> >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> iEYEAREDAAYFAkmKz/cACgkQWSjv55S0LfEJJQCgsfRuuFSC0z8egruijYgoVULX
> >>>>> KoYAoPylGGPnXB2rBBj5Jd7ZxGIFlTud =N8OH -----END PGP 
> >>>>> SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Orca-list mailing list
> >>>>> Orca-list gnome org
> >>>>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> >>>>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca
> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> >>>
> >>> iEYEAREDAAYFAkmK4GQACgkQWSjv55S0LfGkVwCfZSTc17IbiMkWpSWp50C2nhoz
> >>> MH4AoNph8aIRHgF7wqIx11RLPoIYH9t6
> >>> =33XV
> >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Orca-list mailing list
> >>> Orca-list gnome org
> >>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> >>> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> > 
> > iEYEAREDAAYFAkmLDmQACgkQWSjv55S0LfFzGgCgiu9h67RMqZTmDEC8lN39sYMG
> > qK0AoMSbblXX9oTmge4VLCxF+KSEXSSX
> > =UcXl
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > _______________________________________________
> > Orca-list mailing list
> > Orca-list gnome org
> > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Orca-list mailing list
> Orca-list gnome org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca

_______________________________________________
Orca-list mailing list
Orca-list gnome org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list
Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca