Re: [orca-list] gnome-speech, and audio output, moving forward.

[Halim Sahin <halim sahin t-online de>]

Hi
In my opionion we should change the speech output completely to
speech-dispatcher.

It can handle alsa output for all supported synths, and can be used with
other (console apps) too.
I am using it since a few month and it works for me very well.
Remember: Braille output uses a "non-gnome" based server.
Why shouldn't  this the same thing using a speech-server???
Thanks
Halim


On Di, Sep 18, 2007 at 03:44:02 +0100, Michael Whapples wrote:
> Hello,
> Here are my thoughts on this. Yes it would be good to have the speech API 
> (gnome-speech) handling the audio. I say this, having now seen 
> speech-dispatcher 0.6.4, which works well with its espeak driver (not the 
> espeak-generic, but the specific espeak driver). I know that some people 
> have had issues with the stability of speech-dispatcher in the past, and I 
> don't know if those still exist now for those users, but it works well for 
> me. So if it was stable for all, then I would say that speech-dispatcher is 
> what is needed. Adding to what you said about commercial synths, doesn't 
> speech-dispatcher allow use of ibmtts through alsa as speech-dispatcher 
> handles the audio, like it does for espeak now, so getting round the issue 
> of the commercial synths supporting only OSS.
> 
> Also in favour of something like speech-dispatcher is that for those of us 
> who don't always want gnome, and may have some systems with only speakup and 
> command line stuff, then gnome-speech depends on some gnome stuff and so 
> would require gnome to be installed unnecessarily. Also there is the issue 
> of conflicts between speech API's, so where I use speakup for command line, 
> but may have gnome installed (and orca being used), speech-dispatcher 
> handles these two systems trying to use the same synth.
> 
> So what I am saying is, is it time to drop gnome-speech, and try and make 
> another system such as speech-dispatcher more robust? I think TTSAPI may be 
> trying to be the replacement for speech-dispatcher, but I don't know how it 
> is performing.
> 
> From
> Michael Whapples
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Luke Yelavich" <themuso themuso com>
> To: "Orca screen reader developers" <orca-list gnome org>; "Ubuntu 
> Accessibility Development Mailing List" 
> <ubuntu-accessibility-devel lists ubuntu com>; "Gnome Accessibility List" 
> <gnome-accessibility-list gnome org>; "GNOME Accessibility Developers" 
> <gnome-accessibility-devel gnome org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 1:22 PM
> Subject: [orca-list] gnome-speech, and audio output, moving forward.
> 
> 
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Greetings all.
> > For a while now, it has been possible to have multiple audio streams 
> > playing at the same time, using ALSA's
> > dmix plugin under Linux. This also has meant the ability to have speech 
> > audible at the same time as other
> > audio. Users have desired the ability to do this for a while now, 
> > particularly since it has been possible in
> > other operating systems for a long time.
> >
> > Since eSpeak has been developed, we have had a very usable synthesizer for 
> > speech output, which supports a
> > growing number of languages. Since this synthesizer is cross-platform, the 
> > choice was made by the author to
> > use PortAudio, thereby supporting all platforms where PortAudio is 
> > available. Since PortAudio v19, it has been
> > possible to use Alsa for audio output via PortAudio. In theory, this is 
> > good news, however in practice, this
> > has created more problems than it should solve, for the following reasons, 
> > as far as I see things:
> >
> > * PortAudio v19 has had no official release, and so seems to be in a 
> > rather constant state of flux, making it
> > difficult for distros to reliably support a working version.
> > * PortAudio's alsa implementation seems to currently be broken, which is 
> > evident while using eSpeak, and
> > attempting to speak multiple strings of text rapidly over a short period 
> > of time.
> > * As far as I've seen, there is no easy way for the user to select which 
> > output device portaudio should use.
> > Added to that, if more than one app is using portaudio, this will affect 
> > that application as well as espeak,
> > which may not be what the user desires.
> > * All proprietary synths only support oss output, which makes simultaneous 
> > audio and speech currently
> > impossible.
> >
> > What I would like to propose, is the following. Since a large porshion of 
> > GNOME's multimedia framework is now
> > using gStreamer, I would like to suggest that we make all gnome-speech 
> > drivers use gStreamer, and if possible,
> > add another option to the sound preferences, to allow the user to select 
> > which soundcard they wish to use for
> > speech output. This would result in gstreamer being used via Alsa on 
> > Linux, thereby allowing simultaneous
> > audio and speech, which would likely happen at the gstreamer level before 
> > it even reaches alsa. (I don't
> > really know how gstreamer works, so this is a guess on my part.)
> >
> > - From what I have seen, just about all proprietary synth APIs support 
> > sending audio data from the synth back to
> > the calling application, thereby allowing the audio to be sent whereever 
> > the application wishes. I am well
> > aware that gnome-speech was initially designed to not care about how the 
> > audio was played, but since its
> > initial inclusion in GNOME, gstreamer has become the standard multimedia 
> > framework for GNOME, and at least in
> > Ubuntu's implementation, allows the user to set different devices for 
> > several different uses, such as sound
> > events, music and movies, and audio/video conferencing.
> >
> > I think we owe users the ability to use speech alongside audio, and offer 
> > it in an easy to use way, thereby
> > putting full control in their hands. Now that we are at the beginning of a 
> > new GNOME release, I personally
> > think its time to get serious about offering users a deacent screen reader 
> > and speech experience, the same, if
> > not better than what other operating systems offer.
> >
> > I have sent this post to these lists, to try and get as wide a viewpoint, 
> > and discussion as possible. I would
> > appreciate any replies to be sent to all lists, to ensure everybody can 
> > participate in the discussion.
> >
> > I would like to invite both users and developers to express their views on 
> > a matter which I believe needs
> > resolving. Input from gnome devs, particularly those for gnome-speech is 
> > very much welcome.
> >
> > So, lets sort something out.
> > - -- 
> > Luke Yelavich
> > GPG key: 0xD06320CE
> > (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt)
> > Email & MSN: themuso themuso com
> > Jabber: themuso jabber org au
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> > 
> 
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-- 
Halim Sahin
E-Mail:				
halim.sahin (at) t-online.de