Re: new highcontrast widgets?

[Andreas Nilsson <nisses mail home se>]

Willie Walker wrote:
> Hi Peter:
>
> Most definitely agreed on bringing users in -- it's something we've 
> done with Orca since day one and it works very well.  In my experience 
> working directly with end users, however, I've found that specific 
> examples serve as a better foundation for discussion than a 
> generalized problem statement.
>
> So, in order to better avoid overgeneralizing the problem/solution too 
> soon, I'd like to have some specific examples of dialogs with "Close" 
> buttons that are under consideration for removal.  With these, we can 
> go to the Orca user's list and have a discussion.
>
> Andreas, do you have examples of dialogs whose "Close" buttons might 
> be removed?
Hi!
This was something that was brought up during Ubuntu Developer Summit in 
some of the Desktop meetings, where Matthew Paul Thomas suggested that 
it would be good to get rid of the several ways to close a window in 
order to reduce duplication of information in some dialogs we were 
designing.

Thomas Wood and myself was also discussing this for the appearence 
capplet when he was redesigning that dialog some time ago.

Does anyone know how other operating systems, like OSX solve this issue?

- Andreas
> Thanks!
>
> Will
>
> Peter Korn wrote:
> > Hi Willie, Calum,
> >
> > We might want to bring in some Orca users.
> >
> > So long as ESC works to dismiss these dialogs, I don't see an 
> > impediment to removing the CLOSE button.  I guess the issue is that 
> > blind users wouldn't be able to tell when a dialog box is close-able 
> > that way (if they can't navigate to an "X" in the window manager in a 
> > closeable dialog that lacks a window menu with Alt-F4 close on it).  
> > Again, I think we should get the input from some users...
> >
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > > > > A big stopper for this was apparently the highcontrast themes, 
> > > > > where the
> > > > > close button in the corner hit target is pretty small apparently.
> > > >
> > > > > Would something like this be doable?
> > > > > http://andreasn.se/diverse/temp/hc.png
> > >
> > > I think it would depend upon the window manager.  I'm not sure what 
> > > metacity provides for these.  Peter would probably know.
> > >
> > > > I'm pretty sure the main accessibility concern was feedback from 
> > > > screenreader users, who preferred the safety of an explicit Close 
> > > > button in the main part of instant apply windows-- i.e. one that 
> > > > they could Tab to, and that a screenreader would announce.  IIRC, 
> > > > there never used to be any way for screenreader users to tell if 
> > > > there was a close button in the title bar or not, without pressing 
> > > > Ctrl-W or Alt-F4 and listening to what happened, which is obviously 
> > > > an unsatisfactory experience. I don't know off-hand if this 
> > > > situation has improved with Orca.
> > >
> > > Orca certainly doesn't read the decorations of the window manager, 
> > > and I'm not sure it can get access to them.  So, having something 
> > > people can tab to would still be useful.
> > >
> > > But...before speaking in generalities, do you have specific dialogs 
> > > we could take a look at?  I want to make sure I understand the 
> > > problem better.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Will